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@EA - my 2 cents on TS4

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I think that about one year ago there were some rumors that TS4 is already being developed. If it's not too late (!) I'd like to suggest some things that EA should consider when building TS4 engine:

- make it a native 64 bit application (16 GB of good quality DDR3 usually costs less than 200 $ and we're still in 2011),
- skip DX10 completely and go straight for DX11 (and OpenGL 4.1),
- use tesselation to create round objects and 3D textures,
- consider physics (for both AMD and NVidia, of course),
- double the population density (there's no need to increase maximum world size) and
- eliminate all rabbit holes.

OK, the last two have "nothing" to do with the engine itself but can be useful as a guideline when it comes to targeted GPU preformance and RAM consumption.

Aim for graphics quality slightly above Crysis. If (IF) TS4 is released in 2014, then the games are 7 years apart and that's a lot - going from HD 2900 and 8800 GTX (low end by 2014 standards) to something with power at least three times of current Southern Islands and Fermi chips. High end 2010/2011 cards, mid range 2012/2013 cards and low end 2014 cards should play the game at medium settings 50/60 fps. High end 2012/2013 cards and mid range 2014 cards should be enough for all maxed out 50/60 fps. Of course, that's just a theory (= IMHO).

Avoid commercialism. The Sims Store is overhyped. Don't spam on the Facebook wall that often. It's nice to inform us about new releases, but nagging about what we are doing with our Sims is better left to be discussed on forums. Again, that's just my two cents. Not an attack. I'm trying to stay positive. Kind of.

Most importantly - focus on overall quality. Take your time, don't hurry too much. Make it as stable and glitch free as possible. And when it comes to gameplay itself, think of stuff that made each TS - TS1, TS2 and (to a lesser extent) TS3 so popular.

My list about possible features (after the engine is finished), however, is a bit longer and I'm still adding ideas to it. Just one more thing: bring back the beautiful piano music from TS1 (Build Mode). Main TS3 theme is a remake of some TS2 tunes, so I guess it's possible. Pretty please?

Cheers. D

P.S.

****, this post is way longer than I thought it would be. It's hot and humid outside - in the middle of the night (!). And I'm studying for my exams. BTW, pardon my broken English. And lack of emotions. And lack of writing skill that would make this post more fluent and readable. Right now I need to get an ice cold watermelon, grab my MP3 player with Beatles/Who/Pink Floyd/R.E.M. and drift away ... Get a grip ... Enjoy the rest of this relatively peacefull summer night ...

Comments

  • gizmo86v6gizmo86v6 Posts: 249
    edited June 2011
    Bump.

    Anyone else with suggestions :?:
  • Jarsie9Jarsie9 Posts: 12,714 Member
    edited June 2011
    Not me. Sorry, but it's way too early to think about The Sims 4.

    And some of the things that you are suggesting that EA Marketing stop doing are probably not going to happen. They love Facebook and they love nagging us and constantly trying to sell us things, so I don't foresee them changing that.

    Plus, it's way to early to assume what kind of gameplay The Sims 4 will have. For all we know, they'll be making it for the console crowd and leave us PC players in the dust. I'm just going to enjoy the games I have and not concern myself with TS4 until we start getting more info about it.
    EA Marketing Department Motto:
    "We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
    B)
    I Disapprove (Naturally)
    I Took The Pledge!
  • llama12llama12 Posts: 1
    edited June 2011
    my sis and i have a few ideas, either for the sims 4 or future expansion packs in the sims 3. here they are:

    SIMS 3: CARNIVAL
    you should be able to build theme parks in the town.
    Stuff:
    - Skating rinks
    - Trampolines
    - Roller coasters
    - Thrill rides
    - Haunted house
    - Skate boards/scooters
    - Bumper cars
    - Casinos

    SIMS 3: SHOW-BIZ
    this would be somewhat similar to the original sims superstar. sims could become famous as either a Celebrity, Actor, Singer, model, comedian, dancer etc. there would also be actual celebrities that you occasionally run into in the town.
    you should be able to go to hollywood where there would be all the sets and studios and theatres and celebrities.
    the singers can go on tour and come to your town and put on shows in the town's entertainment centre.

    SIMS 3: CITIES
    Multiple towns on the same map, with joining roads
    Public trains
    Obvious CBD in each town
    Markets
    Town mayors

    SIMS 3: SEASONS
    each season should have a different holiday destination associated with each: (cus there are only 3 places to holiday in TS3 world adventures)
    Summer: beaches, surfing,
    Winter: snow holiday, skiing, snowmen
    Autumn: forest holidays, cabins on the lake, tree climbing, horse riding
    Spring: camping in the mountains

    i have loads more ideas which i will post when i remember them :P
    hope you like them
  • gizmo86v6gizmo86v6 Posts: 249
    edited June 2011
    Jarsie, IMHO some things should be discussed rather sooner than later (or too late). I wouldn't talk (too much) about actual features until the announcement and first photos/videos are released - it wouldn't make sense. That's why I focused on TS4 engine. The hardware stuff. I realize that commercialism and Sims Store won't stop. But it would be nice to see them limited to more acceptable levels. Or whatever that means :?

    LLama, I've been thinking about large maps but my idea was about leaving it for TS5 (if it ever becomes a reality) because of RAM issues. I was thinking - TS1 and TS2 were centered around one household, TS3 and TS4 are centered around one neighborhood and then ... The 2020s :D Nice stuff, BTW - amusement park would be great :wink:
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Glic2003Glic2003 Posts: 2,932 Member
    edited June 2011
    There's already been lots of speculation on what TS4 might be like. Suffice to say, I'm not going to get my hopes up. ;) Although I can re-post my old list of ideas if you're really interested.
    simsig_willwright.gif



    "We've been attributing the state of The Sims 4 to greed but I think it's time to give sheer incompetence another look."
    -Honeywell
  • gizmo86v6gizmo86v6 Posts: 249
    edited June 2011
    Glic2003 wrote:
    There's already been lots of speculation on what TS4 might be like. Suffice to say, I'm not going to get my hopes up. ;) Although I can re-post my old list of ideas if you're really interested.
    I guess a link to your topic would be OK; I'm interested in that kind of stuff. I'm quite sure, however, that sooner or later this topic will unfortunately also sink to 10th or then 100th page of these forums and be forgotten ...
  • AlexRoz9AlexRoz9 Posts: 309 New Member
    edited June 2011
    If it's not too early for Microsoft/Bungie to announce a remake of HALO: Combat Evolved for 2014, it's not too early to start discussing TS4.

    1. Native WIN/MAC versions! There's absolutely no excuse to continue using Cider for the Mac release. When planned for early on, it's quite easy to develop native WIN/MAC software. Cider has proven to be nothing but a problem for Mac users, and was a step backward, not a step forward. Blizzard and Valve both write native Mac code and release WIN/MAC versions simultaneously. 2K has Aspyr write native Mac code for their games, but they don't do simultaneous releases; follow Blizzard and Valve's example for TS4. (This would also allow EA to distribute TS4 in the Mac App Store for those who prefer direct downloads.) Keep the WIN/MAC DVD releases for those of us who want physical copies of our games that are DRM-free, and continue to avoid SecuROM.

    2. Take the features of the most commonly released EPs (Pets/Dating/Vacations/Work, etc.,) and build them directly into the base game. Now take the EP releases that have been freed up and start developing EPs that people haven't played before. There's a greater incentive for me to buy a new EP rather then a "rereleased" one, especially if the "rereleased" EP is built directly into the base game.

    3. Test your game(s) before you release them! Seriously, put TS4 through the ringer before releasing it. Hire competent beta testers and quality control workers. Don't ship the game until it's functional either, and make sure that all required patches are included on the disc. Include a second or even a third disc if need be, but make it so that we can play our games "out of the box" without having to download a patch for a patch for a patch. The biggest problem with TS3 is that it's broken at the most basic level; TS4 can't be shipped in the same condition, not if you want me to continue to invest hundreds of dollars in the base game, its EPs, and its SPs.

    4. Maximize the games compatibility. In other words, take into account laptop users, and users with older computers. A desktop that was "cutting-edge" in 2007 should be capable of running TS4; a laptop that was "cutting-edge" in 2010 should also be capable of running TS4. Modern machines will obviously offer better performance, but older machines should still be supported. More and more people are keeping their computers longer then they used, and it's no longer uncommon to see someone using a 10-year-old desktop as their "every day" computer. Laptops still have a shorter lifespan, but that'll eventually change as well. The more accessible the game is, the more customers you will have access to. Look at the Playstation 2; it's 10 years old, but it's still a popular game console, and developers are still putting out titles for it, because people are still buying it and playing games on it.

    5. Build world creation directly into the game itself. For starters, this would benefit Mac users who don't have world creation abilities in TS3. The world editing tools in TS3 are rudimentary at best, and difficult to work with; a full-blown world creation option would make world editing much easier to control, and much less annoying.

    6. Drop past continuity. TS3 supposedly takes place before TS1, which supposedly takes place before TS2. This presents a myriad of problems, most notably a glaring technological disparity between the three games: The "middle" game, TS1, has black & white TV sets, desktop computers, and no cell phones or cars. The first game, TS3, has laptops, cell phones, HDTVs, hybrid vehicles, and even solar panels. The "final" game once again shows a technological disparity that makes it look like the Sims are building back toward what they had some 40-60 years earlier. You can still have a Goth family, a Pleasent family, a Burb family, and so on, but pick their most popular iteration, and avoid tying TS4 to TS1-3. This opens up several possibilities, which I'll touch on in my next suggestion.

    7. Bring back some of the old worlds. The unnamed "Old Town" from TS1 seems to be the most popular world to recreate for TS3. With no ties to TS1-3's story, it would be possible to include "Old Town" in TS4. It'd also be possible to have "Strange Town" make a return, as well as "Sunset Valley," or another TS3 town. The people might be different, but the worlds themselves could look the same and still be highly enjoyable.

    8. Cars with doors, please. One thing that bothers a lot of people is Sims ability to "teleport" into cars. The cars also seem to have the ability to teleport into the street. I'd like to see vehicles with doors, that drive where they're going in TS4, as well as the ability to have an "underground garage" built into a basement. Of course, this is The Sims that we're talking about, so it'd also be nice to have a teleporter as one of the options under vehicles. (I can just picture designing a "Transporter Room" straight out of Star Trek right now.)

    9. "Family Tree" back-ups. One thing I'd like to be able to do is to save my family tree, just as I save my games. This way, if I have to reinstall for whatever reason, I can "reload" my family tree, and attach a family from the bin to the aforementioned tree. In other words, if I have to start from scratch, but I still have a third generation family or members of the family saved in the bin, I can choose them, load a saved family tree, and still have them "tied" to their ancestors, even if I no longer have access to the aforementioned ancestors. A "load family tree" option could be on the same screen as "Move in Sims." When a family tree is loaded, I could also be given the option to edit it, that way if the nTH generation is already there, I can remove them and replace them with the most recent version of the family from the bin.

    10. Native WIN/MAC versions! This is so important that I'm going to mention it again. The game should run natively under Windows, and it should run natively under Mac OS X. My purchase of TS4 could very well be dependent on whether or not the game has been natively coded for the Mac or not; a large portion of problems with TS3 have been Cider-related, and other game developers have committed to simultaneous WIN/MAC releases of native WIN/MAC games. It is imperative that EA begin releasing native Mac games to stay competitive with these other developers.

    Footnote: Forums that function properly, with a swear-filter that doesn't filter words that aren't swears! R.E.H.A.S.H.E.D. is NOT a swear word. According to dictionary.com, it's a verb that means "to work up (old material) in a new form." That's effectively the definition that I was using. You can call this suggestion 10-A or 11 if you'd like, but it's annoying to see words censored that shouldn't be.
  • gizmo86v6gizmo86v6 Posts: 249
    edited June 2011
    AlexRoz9 wrote:
    2. Take the features of the most commonly released EPs (Pets/Dating/Vacations/Work, etc.,) and build them directly into the base game. Now take the EP releases that have been freed up and start developing EPs that people haven't played before. There's a greater incentive for me to buy a new EP rather then a "rereleased" one, especially if the "rereleased" EP is built directly into the base game.
    I agree with this one. :)
    AlexRoz9 wrote:
    4. Maximize the games compatibility. In other words, take into account laptop users, and users with older computers. A desktop that was "cutting-edge" in 2007 should be capable of running TS4; a laptop that was "cutting-edge" in 2010 should also be capable of running TS4. Modern machines will obviously offer better performance, but older machines should still be supported. More and more people are keeping their computers longer then they used, and it's no longer uncommon to see someone using a 10-year-old desktop as their "every day" computer. Laptops still have a shorter lifespan, but that'll eventually change as well. The more accessible the game is, the more customers you will have access to. Look at the Playstation 2; it's 10 years old, but it's still a popular game console, and developers are still putting out titles for it, because people are still buying it and playing games on it.
    I admit - I was focusing on "all maxed out" settings. And I realize that the computer market has changed significantly since the early Win XP/OS X days. The computing power has skyrocketed but our needs for that power - not so much. For the usual stuff such as browsing the internet or watching movies all you need is a netbook - or even a smartphone/tablet.

    To compromise between our views on that point - it can be solved with flexible engine that woud range from 200 - 500 GFLOPS for low settings to 5000+ GFLOPS for highest settings. :!:
    AlexRoz9 wrote:
    8. Cars with doors, please. One thing that bothers a lot of people is Sims ability to "teleport" into cars. The cars also seem to have the ability to teleport into the street. I'd like to see vehicles with doors, that drive where they're going in TS4, as well as the ability to have an "underground garage" built into a basement. Of course, this is The Sims that we're talking about, so it'd also be nice to have a teleporter as one of the options under vehicles. (I can just picture designing a "Transporter Room" straight out of Star Trek right now.)
    I'd like to expand this one. The only way I can do it ATM is by showing some examples.

    (1) You buy an empty book shelf that actually looks empty. You write/buy a book and put it on that shelf. Now you can observe the (almost) empty shelf - with your book on it.
    (2) Think again how long it takes to do some stuff IRL like showering, waking up or harvesting plants. More importantly - make Sims find their ways when going from A to B in small/narrow/crowded areas. If nothing else, then physics sould take care of that. How do they call it in TS3? Oderno wee wee?
    (3) This one is much more complicated ... When you invent stuff, the player should be able to watch how the parts are assembled - no more pre-made animations in 2 - 4 stages. There are also other similar occasions such as making sand castles, cooking ... I do realize, however, that the same can't be done for aging. No matter how many life "stages" there are - even if they are subtle any only one day long, it will still be like going from analog to digital media - never quite the same (and it's not the quality itself I'm talking about).

    These are only a few specific details - but more details there are, more significant the whole deal becomes. And I know it's hard to imagine all this actually working, but if EA manages to strike a balance and squeeze these life's little moments into a 24-minute day, then TS4 might be a winner. 8)
    AlexRoz9 wrote:
    9. "Family Tree" back-ups. One thing I'd like to be able to do is to save my family tree, just as I save my games. This way, if I have to reinstall for whatever reason, I can "reload" my family tree, and attach a family from the bin to the aforementioned tree. In other words, if I have to start from scratch, but I still have a third generation family or members of the family saved in the bin, I can choose them, load a saved family tree, and still have them "tied" to their ancestors, even if I no longer have access to the aforementioned ancestors. A "load family tree" option could be on the same screen as "Move in Sims." When a family tree is loaded, I could also be given the option to edit it, that way if the nTH generation is already there, I can remove them and replace them with the most recent version of the family from the bin.
    I'd add something else - a diary, based on expanded memory system. It would look like a family photo album but with statistics for all heirs and their children (at least the ones that don't move out). First part of the diary: the family tree. Click on your Sim's avatar and you open the second part (like zooming in on maps). Second part of this diary would be like an ID card - one photo for each life stage, traits, favorites, LTW, age and cause of death (or whatever stuff is included in TS4). The last part is a small button in the corner of the ID card - memories as we know them in TS3. This diary could be viewed in-game or exported as PDF or HTML or even small Java-based executable file.

    Whew. Too much? :lol:

    So, this is it. For now. And now for something completely different - some more pieces of ice cold watermelon. Can't get enough of it these days.
  • darkraven1753darkraven1753 Posts: 1,508 Member
    edited June 2011
    gizmo86v6 wrote:
    Jarsie, IMHO some things should be discussed rather sooner than later (or too late).

    I agree! If we don't start asking for what we want in TS4 now, then when? We shouldn't wait until they've gotten too far along and then complain about the things we can't change. NOW is definitely the time to talk about TS4.

    I like all of your suggestions, gizmo86v6.

    And some of the things I also want are:

    1. Attractive Sims that I'm not going to feel childish playing -- the TS3 clay doll look did not work for me.

    2. NO RABBIT HOLES.

    3. Better animations. I guess this kind of goes with 1., but I can't emphasize enough that if my Sims don't look good up close, I'm just not able to get attached to them, and that ruins the game. The dance moves in Late Night look great, but the rest of the animations for TS3 seem kind of robotic to me. I especially dislike the look they get when left idle. Also, facial expressions are so important to me. They need to be subtle and endearing, not so exaggerated and cartoony.

    4. Better sandbox gameplay. I want more of a "toy" and less of an RPG game. Little side quests are fine, but they need to be optional and the core of the gameplay needs to focus on me getting to play out my Sims' lives however I like. I don't need to be led by the hand and told what to do. Also, constant pop-up text telling me what's going on drives me crazy. Some messages are okay, but I want to watch my Sims actually doing things, not read about them.

    5. Better build mode and neighborhood customization. I like building themed neighborhoods (usually medieval and Victorian), so pre-made buildings don't work for me. I want to be able to build and customize EVERYTHING from the ground up. Also, a smaller build grid that allows doors and windows to be placed more freely would be wonderful, and I love architectural features like the Second Empire roof pieces in the TS2 Mansion and Garden SP and the Old Town French Quarter stuff in TS1's Unleashed EP.
  • windweaverwindweaver Posts: 7,363 Member
    edited June 2011
    Hi,
    Would all those techy things include: no rubber looking clothes? I really hate that fabric looks like rubber in ts3.

    the lighting is better in ts2 in my opinion, it makes things like wood look like wood in stead of blobs of clay.

    I don't know what all that stuff you wrote means, but I figure if they read your post, I'd like them to think about how things look in the game.

    Hope this isn't off topic.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    My Origin Name is: Cynconzola8
  • darkraven1753darkraven1753 Posts: 1,508 Member
    edited June 2011
    AlexRoz9 wrote:

    2. Take the features of the most commonly released EPs (Pets/Dating/Vacations/Work, etc.,) and build them directly into the base game. Now take the EP releases that have been freed up and start developing EPs that people haven't played before. There's a greater incentive for me to buy a new EP rather then a "rereleased" one, especially if the "rereleased" EP is built directly into the base game.

    I like remakes, personally, and I don't mind buying an improved version of something that has been done before, but building them into the base game would be wonderful. What worries me is that things that are built into the base game will just be the minimum watered-down version of the EP features we loved. That would be a big mistake. We need the complete features.

    AlexRoz9 wrote:
    4. Maximize the games compatibility. In other words, take into account laptop users, and users with older computers. A desktop that was "cutting-edge" in 2007 should be capable of running TS4; a laptop that was "cutting-edge" in 2010 should also be capable of running TS4. Modern machines will obviously offer better performance, but older machines should still be supported. More and more people are keeping their computers longer then they used, and it's no longer uncommon to see someone using a 10-year-old desktop as their "every day" computer. Laptops still have a shorter lifespan, but that'll eventually change as well. The more accessible the game is, the more customers you will have access to. Look at the Playstation 2; it's 10 years old, but it's still a popular game console, and developers are still putting out titles for it, because people are still buying it and playing games on it.

    This I can't agree with. I'm sick and tired of seeing the Sims held back in tech and graphics because EA thinks all Sims players are tech-challenged and playing on "granny's laptop." I'd like to see TS4 compare with other new games. It makes no sense to me that people who play sports games or shooters would have better systems and need better graphics than we do. I have a gaming computer with a high-end video card and I want to get some use out of it. I want my Sims and their world to have the beautiful graphics I see in other new games.
    AlexRoz9 wrote:
    5. Build world creation directly into the game itself.... The world editing tools in TS3 are rudimentary at best, and difficult to work with; a full-blown world creation option would make world editing much easier to control, and much less annoying.

    THIS^ Please!
    AlexRoz9 wrote:
    8. Cars with doors, please. One thing that bothers a lot of people is Sims ability to "teleport" into cars. The cars also seem to have the ability to teleport into the street...

    THIS^ too!!! I want interactive cars that have the full animations like we have in TS2 in TS4. The teleporting in TS3 was a terrible idea and completely ruined the illusion of playing little living people. It's fine for Star Trek, but not for my Sims.
  • Glic2003Glic2003 Posts: 2,932 Member
    edited June 2011
    I'll re-post my big list of big ideas. ;)



    - Cars that actually have interactions. So you could drive to a remote part of town and sit and chat or make out, listen to the radio, etc). You could put items in the car's trunk, instead of putting large items in your Sim's inventory. If you own a truck, you can use it to haul large items around. If you drive an expensive car, other Sims will be impressed by it. Since the game has an "open world" I think vehicles should play a big role in it. Boating could be another possibility.

    - Realistic movement for hair, clothes etc. You could open the windows in your house and the wind would blow the curtains around. If your Sim was wearing a hat, the wind could blow it off and he'd go chasing after it. That would look amazing, and it could add to the gameplay as well.

    - ability to adjust skin textures (so that not everyone has a smooth, "pudding" skin. The Sims Medieval actually took a step in this direction already).

    -weather should be part of the base game, not an EP.

    -Rabbitholes should only be used for those parts of the game that would be boring to watch (e.g. Office jobs) or areas that would be impossible to render (e.g. The stadium).

    -Some jobs could take place in rabbitholes while others take place in open community lots. Jobs that take place in open lots would involve some input from the player (so you can choose which tasks to perform and your job performance increases or decreases accordingly).

    - Sims should have a "personality profile" (i.e. Number ratings in all of the key areas, like TS2 had) combined with a few "quirks" (i.e. Like the Traits that TS3 has). RPGs have been using this system for 30+ years, and if it works for them, it can work for The Sims.

    - most importantly, I would like to see more and better interactions between the Sims and more subtle, detailed behaviour. Instead of actions grouped according to "friendly" "romantic" etc, there should be some actions that are ambiguous. This leads to more interesting, unpredictable gameplay.

    -memories that would have profound effects on Sims' autonomous behaviour). So, for example, if you break up with your wife, she may try to sabotage your new relationships.

    -more personality quirks that actually affect game play (for example, irrational fears or phobias)

    -a "karma" system, so that if your Sim engages in a lot of "negative" or "positive" activities, they would draw more negative or positive events to them.

    -negative relationships that actually affect game play (so, if someone is your Enemy, they really try to wreck your life!)

    -it should be possible for negative events to occur (sickness, accidents, etc.) but these should be handled with a sense of humour to avoid dragging the game down

    - lots that actually change and deteriorate over time (so, if no one is living in a house, it looks overgrown and dilapidated - that would be amazing). Empty houses would have faded paint on them. Occasionally you'd have to repaint the house or mow the lawn.

    - shopping for stuff in community lots. You can still get your basic items from "Buy Mode", but if you want your Sims to have really high quality, unique items, you actually have to send them to a store to shop for them. Then they get delivered to the house and you can place them as usual.
    simsig_willwright.gif



    "We've been attributing the state of The Sims 4 to greed but I think it's time to give sheer incompetence another look."
    -Honeywell
  • CouriervaughanCouriervaughan Posts: 20,570 Member
    edited June 2011
    gizmo86v6 wrote:
    Jarsie, IMHO some things should be discussed rather sooner than later (or too late).

    I agree! If we don't start asking for what we want in TS4 now, then when? We shouldn't wait until they've gotten too far along and then complain about the things we can't change. NOW is definitely the time to talk about TS4.

    I like all of your suggestions, gizmo86v6.

    And some of the things I also want are:

    1. Attractive Sims that I'm not going to feel childish playing -- the TS3 clay doll look did not work for me.

    2. NO RABBIT HOLES.

    3. Better animations. I guess this kind of goes with 1., but I can't emphasize enough that if my Sims don't look good up close, I'm just not able to get attached to them, and that ruins the game. The dance moves in Late Night look great, but the rest of the animations for TS3 seem kind of robotic to me. I especially dislike the look they get when left idle. Also, facial expressions are so important to me. They need to be subtle and endearing, not so exaggerated and cartoony.

    4. Better sandbox gameplay. I want more of a "toy" and less of an RPG game. Little side quests are fine, but they need to be optional and the core of the gameplay needs to focus on me getting to play out my Sims' lives however I like. I don't need to be led by the hand and told what to do. Also, constant pop-up text telling me what's going on drives me crazy. Some messages are okay, but I want to watch my Sims actually doing things, not read about them.

    5. Better build mode and neighborhood customization. I like building themed neighborhoods (usually medieval and Victorian), so pre-made buildings don't work for me. I want to be able to build and customize EVERYTHING from the ground up. Also, a smaller build grid that allows doors and windows to be placed more freely would be wonderful, and I love architectural features like the Second Empire roof pieces in the TS2 Mansion and Garden SP and the Old Town French Quarter stuff in TS1's Unleashed EP.


    Agree
  • EverettEverett Posts: 1,117 Member
    edited June 2011
    Glic2003 wrote:
    - Realistic movement for hair

    I've noticed in the game Alice: Madness Returns (PC) that Alice's hair flows smoothly and naturally. I sometimes run around in areas for the heck of it just to see her hair flow and no, she does not whip her hair back and forth. :P

    Game is one of my favorites, yet I've never heard of Spicy Horse (developer) but they managed to create a beautiful game due to the time and money considered.
  • gizmo86v6gizmo86v6 Posts: 249
    edited June 2011
    I'll bump this topic a few times, I think more people should see it.

    In this episode ... :roll:

    :?: Digital downloads or optical media? :?:

    For me, this one's easy - they need to coexist. There's one other problem that I'd like to address. The size of every new game grows exponentially. So ... Will 3 dual-layer DVDs be enough (a regular DVD box with one dual-DVD flip in the middle)? Should EA try the BDs?

    For the forseeable future the optical media will remain a convenient way to obtain good quality media (uncompressed PCM audio on CDs, high bitrate video with loads of bonus stuff on DVDs and BDs). AFAIK, so far the only games released on BDs are those that are made for the PS3.

    I have an unpleasant feeling that the PC gaming industry will skip the BDs completely. A BD drive on Apple? With recently announced iCloud - no way. Only if you buy one yourself. Microsoft? They were supporting the HD DVDs.

    Current BD burners can be bought for 100 - 130 $/€. While 100 $/€ is too much for the mainstream you can get BD readers for 60 - 80 $/€. If the PC gaming industry slowly switches from DVDs to BDs then the BDs will go mainstream and its prices will fall. But is it too little, too late? Seriously, I've no idea.

    The biggest problem for BD is its war with HD DVD that delayed its introduction to the market by 2 - 3 years. Even then the drives and blank media were way too expensive. So, for home archiving people went from CDs/DVDs to external hard drives instead.

    One other option for distributing games are memory cards. While this works for portable game consoles due to small physical and capacity sizes it can't work for PCs. A reasonably fast 32 GB SD card (not the expensive high end but not the slowest low end either) costs as much as the BD reader itself.

    I admit, though, that while the flash media is still way more expensive than either optical media or hard drives, its prices are falling faster than any of those. If a mid-range 32 SD card costs 20 $/€ 2 or 3 years from now, then I call this one plausible.

    Finally, my conclusion: digital download + SD card or BD disc.

    Next time: some theories about how to get rid of the rabbit holes ...
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • DeathNoteSimDeathNoteSim Posts: 4,544 New Member
    edited June 2011
    Jarsie9 wrote:
    Not me. Sorry, but it's way too early to think about The Sims 4.
    :thumbup:
  • Glic2003Glic2003 Posts: 2,932 Member
    edited June 2011
    gizmo86v6 wrote:
    I'll bump this topic a few times, I think more people should see it.

    In this episode ... :roll:

    :?: Digital downloads or optical media? :?: ...


    EA already announced they plan to go all digital downloads for everything.

    Whether or not they'll truly stick to their guns and follow through with this remains to be seen. There's already a big backlash from the community here, and it hasn't even happened yet.
    simsig_willwright.gif



    "We've been attributing the state of The Sims 4 to greed but I think it's time to give sheer incompetence another look."
    -Honeywell
  • gizmo86v6gizmo86v6 Posts: 249
    edited June 2011
    Glic2003 wrote:
    gizmo86v6 wrote:
    I'll bump this topic a few times, I think more people should see it.

    In this episode ... :roll:

    :?: Digital downloads or optical media? :?: ...


    EA already announced they plan to go all digital downloads for everything.

    Whether or not they'll truly stick to their guns and follow through with this remains to be seen. There's already a big backlash from the community here, and it hasn't even happened yet.
    Yeah, I saw that too ... I guess it will happen someday but I think it's still too early :?

    I'm OK with it if EA slowly stops making DVDs after its online store proves successful and reasonably safe ...
  • gizmo86v6gizmo86v6 Posts: 249
    edited June 2011
    Here it is ... My first try at eliminating rabbit holes. Obviously I don't know if these ideas would work. But they might ... :!:

    ========
    HOSPITAL
    ========
    OK, this is a tough one. I guess surgery is out of the question. But you can still have a big hallway/waiting room combo, a reception office, a pharmacy and one or two rooms for doctors to perform physical examinations. Optional: rooms with beds for patients who need to stay at the hospital for a few days. Careers: pharmacist, doctor.

    ==========
    RESTAURANT
    ==========
    Easy one, it's been done before. Kitchen: a real kitchen where cooks prepare meals when they get their orders. Careers: cook, waiter.

    ============
    OFFICE TOWER
    ============
    Big atriums ... Open offices and/or cubicles ... Meeting spaces (brainstorming) ... Conference rooms ... Storage rooms (archives) ... Locker rooms ... Cafeterias ... Desks full of paperwork, computers, printers, book shelves, large windows, water coolers, plants ... Let your imagination go wild. Careers: businessman/businesswoman.

    =========
    CITY HALL
    =========
    A parliament version of the office tower ...? I don't know yet.

    ===============
    BAR/CLUB/LOUNGE
    ===============
    OK, these are not rabbit holes and in TS3 they are executed pretty well. But don't forget the billiard/pool/snooker tables! ... One more thing: card games. Can be played on regular tables. Anyone with a deck of cards in their inventory could initiate the game and invite others to join.

    =======
    THEATRE
    =======
    The usual stuff - one big hall with seats and a stage. A few smaller rooms are also needed: dressing room, movie projector room, storage room, and one or two offices and toilets. Can be used for theater plays, music performances and movie shows (cinema).

    =============
    GROCERY STORE
    =============
    Market/supermarket combo. There's one big problem: time consumption. Compromise: use a system similar to the one in TS3. When a sim enters the store, show the list of stuff available. But when the selection is made, show an animation of sim walking between the shelves, paying at the cashier and exiting.

    ======
    POLICE
    ======
    I'm running out of ideas here ... Offices, gym, storage room, cafeteria and ... A small prison (bedrooms, toilets, fenced backyard, "living room")?

    =======
    STADIUM
    =======
    Yup - one large arena with seats (up to 200 - 400, if the population density is doubled compared to TS3) ... One big stage that appears when concerts are on the schedule ... Multiple entrances ... For enterning, you would have to wait in line (plausible option - there's limited time but also limited number of sims) ... Athletics? Need some more brainstorming ...

    ===
    SPA
    ===
    Jacuzzi-like baths with either water or mud (?) ... Saunas ... Areas for massage ... Reception office/locker room/atrium combo ...

    ==========
    APARTMENTS
    ==========
    Not exactly a rabbit hole, but similar in some aspects. You don't need skyscrapers, just 4 - 8 floors (real, not imaginary) with 4 - 8 apartments per floor. That's the key element when it comes to doubling the population density. Add the parking area, a small park (on the same lot, of course) and you're done. Apartments other than yours can still appear dark like in TS3. So can houses - they don't have to disappear when you try to see their inside of them when not using the tab mode.

    ====================
    NEW: AMUSEMENT PARKS
    ====================
    I've got to do some more brainstorming on this one. But I hope you get the idea: pay once at the entrance, do what you want once you're inside. Opening time: 9 AM - 6 PM. Up to 9 PM in summer. Closed in winter. Souvenir stores are unnecessary. Large map is necessary. IDK yet if 64 × 64 is enough. Maybe it is. Barely. ...?

    =======================
    NEW: WINTER PARK RESORT
    =======================
    Surrounded with cottages (most of them made of wood). Can be reserved for winter-themed neighborhood. If plausible, it can be part of one large this-one-has-everything neighborhood. Not yet sure how to implement skiing.

    =====
    BEACH
    =====
    When there are winter park resorts, something has to be done with beaches (summer-themed). Swimming in oceans can not be avoided. Reserved area for volleyball. Optional: boats/yachts and a diving center. Nearby houses: bungalows instead of cottages.

    ======
    SCHOOL
    ======
    I almost forgot this one. So, school ... Clasrooms, obviously. Different themed clasrooms for different subjects. Teaching profession which expadns on current tutoring interactions. Gym + playground, cafeteria, auditorium/conference room, office for professors, computer lab ... And so on. No careers - there are professions instead. Teachers/professors for simlish, math, geography, history, chemistry, physics, biology, art (music included) and gym. Hobbies would be optional (cooking, photography ...). Don't know yet whether (and how to) separate universities from primary/secondary schools.

    ===========
    SCIENCE LAB
    ===========
    Undecided whether the lab should stay in TS4 ... Yup, need more brainstorming.

    =============
    MILITARY BASE
    =============
    Undecided. I'm sure it would include some kind of a gym and some offices, storage rooms, garages and maybe even their own labs.

    ===================================
    AIRPORTS, BUS/TRAIN STATIONS, DOCKS
    ===================================
    Possible only if the neighborhoods are connected into one super size map, otherwise unnecessary. Subway included. Was nice for Bridgeport but I wouldn't miss in TS3 because of low population density - there are no crowds or traffic jams to make it a viable option.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • jannishaljannishal Posts: 118 New Member
    edited June 2011
    I think this is a great thread and every simmer should contribute to it. If EA does make a tS4 it would be a win -win situation for simmers in making this thread early. If they don't make a tS4 then you all have nothing to lose in making this thread. If sims 4 is released in 2014 it is important to make EA know from early what the simmers are looking for and how the game could be improved from is predecessors.

    Better to be early than late. It is better to tell them now than on the release day of the Sims 4.


    Great thread.
  • StonehousekthxStonehousekthx Posts: 41
    edited June 2011
    I'm not really up on the lingo, been playing Sims since it first came out but I haven't been to the forum since a few days ago.

    What are "Rabbitholes"? I don't quite get the referance
  • gizmo86v6gizmo86v6 Posts: 249
    edited June 2011
    http://www.modthesims.info/wiki.php?title=Game_Help:Sims_3_Rabbit_Holes_and_Community_Lots
    Rabbit Holes are buildings in which your Sims go inside but you have limited control over what they do and you cannot see inside. Work, Grocery Store, Bookstore, Day Spa, Art Gallery and School are all Rabbit Holes. While at work or school your Sim has the option to choose how much effort they want to put into their day. See the Career page for options. Rabbit Holes are placed on Community Lots and are objects that can be purchased in the catalog. Minor details such as Landscaping can be changed outside, however, you can't change the look of the actual building.

    You can see the building itself but not what's inside.
  • Glic2003Glic2003 Posts: 2,932 Member
    edited June 2011
    The problem with "opening up the rabbitholes" is the game's performance always drops dramatically whenever you have more than, say, a dozen Sims onscreen at once. So there's no way to render the stadium with a hundred or so people in it without the game utterly slowing to a crawl. I would seriously doubt the entire town will even have that many Sims living in it, let alone all congregated together in one place like a stadium.

    And even if it did somehow work without ruining the game's performance, I'm skeptical about it adding a lot of fun gameplay.

    Of course, the small, intimate venues like restaurants should never have been rabbitholes.
    simsig_willwright.gif



    "We've been attributing the state of The Sims 4 to greed but I think it's time to give sheer incompetence another look."
    -Honeywell
  • StonehousekthxStonehousekthx Posts: 41
    edited June 2011
    The Sims 2 town was so much better than the Sims 3 town. You could go in everywhere and actually shop for things. I really miss that. Ambitions helped a little, but I want more job interacting. See my post about an EP that's designed for Hospital/Health care I think it would be amazing.
  • gizmo86v6gizmo86v6 Posts: 249
    edited June 2011
    I'd like to see more sims because the neighborhoods often feel like ghost towns. I think that NPCs are coded to follow your sims to avoid that feeling but I believe it's not enough. I have sims all over the neighborhood and "jump" between them a lot.

    Stadiums: Yes, 200 is A LOT (I just made that number up and I don't know how a full sized stadium with "only" 200 seats would actually look like). But not every event is sold out. If it is - and the stadium is filled to its full capacity - the game could compromise with a limited set of animations for NPCs that would be copied in patterns ... Like ... 40 random sims waving their hands ... 40 sims clapping ... 10 sims going to the toilets and back ... 20 sims buying snacks ... One Randy Marsh making trouble :P ... Stuff like that. Of course, that's jut the idea. Maybe it sounds like too much, but computing power of personal computers is still growing ... For me, the idea of open neighborhoods in TS3 was BIG and in late 2008 I was like "Can they do it?" ... Well, they did it. So I'm keeping the crowded stadium idea open.
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