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Anyone else finding MOO to be necessary?

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    SelinaKylesSelinaKyles Posts: 4,337 Member
    @crocobaura awesome thank you
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    BluegayleBluegayle Posts: 4,208 Member
    I rarely use moo as alt works just fine for inside. Mostly I would use moo for flowers, shrubs etc outdoors.
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    lisamwittlisamwitt Posts: 5,105 Member
    edited February 2023
    mcrudd wrote: »
    I must say I use the alt key a lot. Its the only way I can shift plants closer to where I want them, or beds and chest of draws away ftom curtains to prevent the cutting into furniture issue. Not so much move objects though.

    I alt place as much as I can instead. But a lot of the plants still won't place near the wall or each other. They have huge footprints for some reason.
    What struck me is that way too many EA deco objects have a way too large "footprint". Some rather small objects needs a full spot on a table.

    I really don't understand why objects can't have footprints that are right up against them. Why do they have these huge squares?
    I wish it was just a toggle like auto-counters and auto-sofas. Typing by controller is very annoying.

    I play on PC, but I agree that a toggle would be great. I don't like to leave it on, because I am limiting where it's used. It's not normally an issue, but the house I'm currently building has plants absolutely everywhere. So it's on... off... on... off.
    Simmingal wrote: »
    I moomoo and alt place heck a ton I just test my builds and adjust if i notice i've made too tight a fit or i see something that annoys me like floating or clipping i forgot to fix. Then again I don't really like to clutter my builds as I also have rather minimal tastes irl so yeah that might be why i have no problems with it

    I definitely try to always play test. I have forgotten before and then had to fix and re-upload the lots, even when I didn't use MOO. Not great.
    I don't tend to place a lot of clutter either. But I do want to be able to put what I'd consider a normal amount of clutter- a soap dispenser, a toothbrush cup, and a tube of toothpaste- on the same counter without them being a mile apart. It looks weird.


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    phantasmkissphantasmkiss Posts: 1,520 Member
    I always use MOO to place objects, but I do it in a way that keeps things where I put them once I save to my library. I want to be able to place a lot without using MOO, so I always turn MOO off, save, bulldoze, and place what I've just built without any cheats. If anything disappears or moves, I shift things around a little. Things from the library or the gallery should be able to be played with as-is.
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    Amapola76Amapola76 Posts: 1,914 Member
    I literally never use it. But then, I'm not a big fan of clutter, and try to keep it to a minimum.
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    mightyspritemightysprite Posts: 5,978 Member
    @Ciralinde I think the moo-min in your signature is pleased that you use moo :)
    helps get all the pretty flowers close together, and all
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    SERVERFRASERVERFRA Posts: 7,153 Member
    I'm a Vanilla player. So, I only use the necessary cheat codes. ;)
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    JustinB113JustinB113 Posts: 1,050 Member
    I don’t use MOO.

    On console we have grid placement, half grid placement or free placement.. assuming this is what people are saying about alt key? You can move things pretty freely within a set range.

    I use that setting mostly.
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    CiralindeCiralinde Posts: 81 Member
    @mightysprite exactly! ;)
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    lisamwittlisamwitt Posts: 5,105 Member
    edited February 2023
    As I said, I never used to use it. In threads about MOO, I always said no way.

    But as I have bought more things to add, it's become increasingly frustrating. I can't put toothpaste, a cup of toothbrushes, soap, and lotion on the counter in a way that looks realistic, it all gets slotted across the counter in a weird way. Unless I use MOO to put them closer together.

    Plants are especially problematic, and not just outdoor ones. In my current build, there are little alcoves with potted plants in them. Without MOO I might be able to place 4 plants in a line, with a space between them. It looks really odd. And how many plants are there that have 4 big squares around them such that you can only place them in the middle of a room with nothing next to them?

    And the round walls?! Has no one else had issues with those? I tried alt placing furniture and tables in a room that was rounded on one side and couldn't do it without MOO, not for lack of trying. Not being able to place a round couch next to the round wall was what finally broke me and made me start using it. And my husband got an earful about how genuinely annoyed I was, because I don't want to use it.

    I was annoyed by the automatic MOO they added to the gallery at first, but now I get it.
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    AncientMuseAncientMuse Posts: 1,070 Member
    edited February 2023
    lisamwitt wrote: »
    As I said, I never used to use it. In threads about MOO, I always said no way.

    But as I have bought more things to add, it's become increasingly frustrating. I can't put toothpaste, a cup of toothbrushes, soap, and lotion on the counter in a way that looks realistic, it all gets slotted across the counter in a weird way. Unless I use MOO to put them closer together.

    Plants are especially problematic, and not just outdoor ones. In my current build, there are little alcoves with potted plants in them. Without MOO I might be able to place 4 plants in a line, with a space between them. It looks really odd. And how many plants are there that have 4 big squares around them such that you can only place them in the middle of a room with nothing next to them?

    And the round walls?! Has no one else had issues with those? I tried alt placing furniture and tables in a room that was rounded on one side and couldn't do it without MOO, not for lack of trying. Not being able to place a round couch next to the round wall was what finally broke me and made me start using it. And my husband got an earful about how genuinely annoyed I was, because I don't want to use it.

    I was annoyed by the automatic MOO they added to the gallery at first, but now I get it.


    Welcome to the dark side.... :D

    Now that you've used MOO, you'll never be able to go back. Once you get a taste for how more realistic you can make places look (both inside and outside) with more realistic placement of things, there's no erasing that newfound knowledge from your brain.

    And if you don't go too crazy with MOO, you won't experience routing issues. All you have to do is keep in mind how much space a sim needs to get to something and don't overstep that boundary. I use MOO all the time in every single build I've ever made, and I've never had a routing problem yet. True story.
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    lisamwittlisamwitt Posts: 5,105 Member
    Welcome to the dark side.... :D

    Now that you've used MOO, you'll never be able to go back. Once you get a taste for how more realistic you can make places look (both inside and outside) with more realistic placement of things, there's no erasing that newfound knowledge from your brain.

    And if you don't go too crazy with MOO, you won't experience routing issues. All you have to do is keep in mind how much space a sim needs to get to something and don't overstep that boundary. I use MOO all the time in every single build I've ever made, and I've never had a routing problem yet. True story.

    When I was typing my rant, I said "Not being able to place a round couch next to the round was what made me go to the dark side..." and then changed it. Lol. I agree, once you've started using it, even in a limited capacity as I have, you can't go back. And I have definitely been keeping routing in mind, I've even moved a Sim in, tested some things, then moved him back out.
    Gallery ID: LadyGray01
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    AaleynAaleyn Posts: 308 Member
    edited February 2023
    Earlier I didn't like MOO and I didn't use it, but nowadays I'm using it in some of my builds. I use it only in some decorative things in builds and in landscaping and I always want to make sure that everything works well so that there aren't any problems or routing issues.
    I like the builds and landscaping to look good, but it's important to me that they are also fully functional (I always playtest my builds).
    It's frustrating that some clutter items are not fitting to the surfaces without MOO. And also when using some of the debug -items, especially some plants, MOO is needed to place them; for example those debug "ampel flowers" need MOO to be placed: MOO and then using the 9 and 0 to adjust them to the right place.
    So I do feel that it's necessary in some cases and I must use it in some of my builds and in landscaping.

    I use the alt key a lot. It's great and useful in many ways!

    I also recently started using F5.
    I didn't know about it earlier, but then I was watching one of James Turner's Youtube videos, where he told about it. It's great as well! :blush:
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    PlayerSinger2010PlayerSinger2010 Posts: 3,267 Member
    Never. It's such a pain to get things to actually work! I never download lots that use it either, but that's getting harder and harder to find. 😡
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    RavenSpitRavenSpit Posts: 1,387 Member
    I cant build without moo anymore, I love clutter too much but also some of the normal buildmode placing just doesnt make sense...

    And its not that hard to make interactable objects still...well, interactable with moo, I dont clutter up everything just enough so things look nice.
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    CAPTAIN_NXR7CAPTAIN_NXR7 Posts: 4,491 Member
    I admit….I was never a MOO man myself. I dislike the way so many “content” creators use it in their entirely non-functional builds.

    Nowadays…..I am quite a bit of a MOO man. I use it for landscaping and decorating but I will always make sure it doesn’t cause routing issues. Routing issues drive me up the wall (no pun intended) both in game and in real life. However…

    I do use many objects from the debug catalogue. A good few of the gigantic ones -such as the massive rocks- only have a footprint of 1 tile. In this case I need to surround them with “collider” objects in order to prevent routing, so that a sim doesn’t walk through a rock. A sim walking through a rock is only funny the first time.

    Now, I’ve always been an ALT key person. Can’t live without the ALT key. Same goes for the half - floortile “F” key which let’s me create pretty mosaics and / or road markings. I wish something similar was available for walls.
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    crocobauracrocobaura Posts: 7,449 Member
    Now, I’ve always been an ALT key person. Can’t live without the ALT key. Same goes for the half - floortile “F” key which let’s me create pretty mosaics and / or road markings. I wish something similar was available for walls.


    Oh, it would be nice to have something like that for the walls. No more nice bathroom tiles with questionable wall paint colour.
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    lisamwittlisamwitt Posts: 5,105 Member
    Never. It's such a pain to get things to actually work! I never download lots that use it either, but that's getting harder and harder to find. 😡

    I've given up on finding lots that don't use it, I just look through the lot and see if there's anywhere it was used that I'd prefer it wasn't. Then I either delete those items, or if it's extreme, delete the lot and look for something else.
    Gallery ID: LadyGray01
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    maggiemae8135maggiemae8135 Posts: 790 Member
    It's difficult to know if a lot uses MOO as you still get the notice that MOO was used even if it wasn't used. I built a house without using any MOO, and when I placed it I still got the notice. I did use more of it in the beginning, until I realized that placing a lot with MOO would cause the loss of a post, a curtain, etc, as well as cause routing issues. Now I only build with MOO for landscaping in areas that don't affect routing and I don't place larger plants in front of a post. I did try ALT with a picture above a fireplace as without it the picture was way too high! Does ALT affect anything in a negative way? I will use it more if it doesn't.
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    lisamwittlisamwitt Posts: 5,105 Member
    It's difficult to know if a lot uses MOO as you still get the notice that MOO was used even if it wasn't used.

    It definitely turns it on all the time, regardless. Maybe it considers alt placing to be MOO, since objects are being moved off grid. I was annoyed at first because it wasn't used on the majority of my lots, but I've gotten over it. It ensures that any lots I download will be intact.

    I did try ALT with a picture above a fireplace as without it the picture was way too high! Does ALT affect anything in a negative way? I will use it more if it doesn't.

    It will sometimes allow you to place an ottoman or table too close to a couch, then Sims can't get to it, so you want to make sure you play test. But other than that, I haven't noticed any issues with alt-placing, and I've been using that since day one all the time.
    Gallery ID: LadyGray01
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    maggiemae8135maggiemae8135 Posts: 790 Member
    Thank you @lisamwitt for your answer. I don't think I will use ALT for anything that might interfere with routing. I bought the clutter kit so I do want to try it with some of the bathroom items. I was concerned at first that something might disappear but I play tested the house where I used ALT on the pic and there wasn't a problem. Will probably be using it more now! :)
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    KatAnubisKatAnubis Posts: 3,242 Member
    lisamwitt wrote: »
    I've never liked using MOO. In the past it could cause a lot of problems, so I just never used it unless there was some error that necessitated it, like a stuck Sim. Now, it doesn't cause as many issues, but I still would rather not use it. I never lost that wariness I developed with Sims 2. I only used it a handful of times on builds in the past with Sims 4, and it was on things like placing a curtain on an angled wall before they fixed that issue. I definitely didn't use it on items Sims actually interacted with.

    But I'm finding that now it seems like they are counting on us to use it. I have all these plants and clutter now, but I can hardly place anything without MOO. Plants can't be placed close to walls, furniture, or each other. Clutter items can't actually be cluttered because you can only put a couple items on a table or counter (and they will be really far apart). It's tedious trying to fill shelves because you have to go through everything trying to find things that fit and fit together. And Zeus forbid you ever realize you need to adjust a wall, fence, or even other objects around the house; half the little items you placed with MOO and several items near them will disappear.

    I recently had to use MOO to place a curved couch close to the curved wall. Now, I could have left it halfway across the room or used a small straight couch. But, shouldn't a curved couch go near a curved wall?

    Anyone else finding that they just can't make things look nice without it anymore?


    In past versions of The Sims, it could cause problems if you left MOO on. Fortunately, with TS4 that is *not* a problem. You can have it on all the time without having any problems at all. I leave mine on all the time, and there are actually mods that automatically turn it on for you. I suspect that it is now assumed that most people will have it on 100% of the time.
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    SweetieWright_84SweetieWright_84 Posts: 4,130 Member
    I used to use MOO on everything but now I use mostly on landscaping. I use alt to place things on the interior but I never use MOO on objects that sims can interact with.
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    sleekoduck87sleekoduck87 Posts: 255 Member
    edited March 2023
    Appropriately, I had to use it for that gargantuan cow barn. :D

    I'm doing an apocalypse town, and the only family in Willow Creek that will even get a cow is the Spencer-Kim-Lewis family, and wouldn't you know it, even their monstrosity of a mansion isn't big enough for it? So yeah, I had to use MOO to fit the cow barn onto their lot. Now that I've tasted it, I want more. Maybe the Pancakes and Goths might get a cow, too. Cows for everyone. I'll put the barn on Eliza's balcony. Maybe one on the Goth family's roof...
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    FlapFlap Posts: 200 Member
    I like to use MOO on outdoor plants, so I can reorganize some bushes and grasses in a way they don't necessarily will look the same item but only spread. I also like to use it now with the light switches so I can put them a little bit closer to doors when needed.
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