I guess I just feel a bit weird at stopping in the middle/beginning and trying to completely separate the story from the pictures and not posting any more text.
@haneul Maybe you don't have to make a final decision. It sounds like you want to try some other projects and then that's the way to go.
Maybe you'll want to resume your legacy in a year or two. Maybe not. A good long break can be very life-giving and inspiring.
It began with a concept and turned into a soap opera so there's no definite end in sight
I love that wording. I feel it suits my process very well.
I actually also like that you put off the ending until you burn out of ideas yourself. It gives me something to think about. It's great
I think I may post a few sample chapters to see how I feel and then just abruptly quit/end it. The story arc won't finish, but I think that's okay... So maybe I'm considering the opposite of how legacies may normally go. Instead of getting to a planned point, I am considering just ending it where I am.
I think you of all writers could get away with that. I remember when I first saw your legacy and I was surprised that it didn't start from the beginning, but then I actually liked that there was that feeling of a solid background behind it, even if that hadn't been written down. And if you then end it abruptly, the Fier Legacy will just feel like we just got a short glimpse into a vast family, spanning centuries. I think it would be fine.
(Also I'd totally look through the screenshots without text, you do the prettiest screenshots!)
how do you decide when it's time to end your stories, series, legacies, etc.? For example, do you strictly plan an ending ahead of time and stick to it no matter what
according to ayden i can't stop til he says so. hes 5 right now so that sounds about right.
My stories don’t really have an end. I just chronicle what happens with my families. I try to come up with actual storylines rather than “so and so baked some awesome cookies!” or “this dude fell over in a muddy puddle!” Those are good in and of themselves, but it’s fun to come up with storylines and challenge myself a bit.
I finally got Pose Player (I think @_sims_Yimi gave me advice about it in the Tales of Camelot thread) so that’ll be really useful. I’ve got some weddings coming up in the Parker Saga (Hazel and Will have been engaged for a ridiculously long time now ) so I can use some wedding poses.
(Hazel and Will have been engaged for a ridiculously long time now :D ) so I can use some wedding poses.ayden and his siblings the triplets and twins have 5 for a riculously long time.i was going to age them foe th highschool pack but forgot now i have the pack for kids clothes and haven't really looked at it.
Back from my trip, and just getting caught back up. Interesting discussion about how and when to end a simlit story. It's something I've been pondering a bit, since simlit (being part of an ongoing game) potentially has more in common with long running TV series than with novels. I don't know yet what my approach will be because I have barely gotten started. But, as I am intending to build it into something of a soap opera, with many different intertwining relationships and plots developing as the Seasons progress, I'll probably take an approach similar to what @Kellogg_J_Kellogg said.
@GlacierSnow That sounds like a cool idea. The drama that usually unfolds during gameplay would lend well to a kind of soap-opera style story. There was a discussion on Tumblr recently about someone considering SimLit being closer to TV than novels in a way, and I think it kind of makes sense because you have to set up the scenes, the lighting etc…only difference is you can have more real-life actors on screen without the universe crashing or freezing
Another common point I see between Simlit and TV series is their "in instalment" nature: most authors in simlit post a chapter/update every few days/weeks, and the readers actually have to wait for the next to be published.
To me this is very different from a novel, where at the end of each chapter it's possible to just turn the page and start a new one, and actually also very different from a movie where scenes are just coming one after the other until the end.
Simlit to me instead feels more like TV series or also reading comics or manga, where the release of a new chapter/episode enters the weekly/monthly routine and you get a lot of time to think or discuss what could be happening next.
I also see the parallel between well-established simlit stories and those TV series, comics/manga etc... which I started following when a lot of episodes/chapters were already available. In those cases I always tend to binge-watch/read a lot of episodes/chapters in a very short time to catch up with the latest one, and then I have a crisis when I realize that for the following chapter I have to wait for a long whole week/month
Anyway, unlike novels or movies, these "in instalment" media very often go on forever or for a very long time. When the author still has a lot of ideas for its characters and setting, in this case it's very easy to just go on with a lot of new chapters and story arcs, without a well-set ending in mind.
You can follow the Legacy Miller from my blog and the forum thread, *Chapter 8.17 posted on the 18th of April 2024*
Anyway, unlike novels or movies, these "in instalment" media very often go on forever or for a very long time. When the author still has a lot of ideas for its characters and setting, in this case it's very easy to just go on with a lot of new chapters and story arcs, without a well-set ending in mind.
And it gets even more aggravating if the author dies before the series is finished.
Unless another person is willing to pick up where the original creator left off, the series ends up being abandoned, and fans are left hanging.
Back from my trip, and just getting caught back up. Interesting discussion about how and when to end a simlit story. It's something I've been pondering a bit, since simlit (being part of an ongoing game) potentially has more in common with long running TV series than with novels. I don't know yet what my approach will be because I have barely gotten started. But, as I am intending to build it into something of a soap opera, with many different intertwining relationships and plots developing as the Seasons progress, I'll probably take an approach similar to what @Kellogg_J_Kellogg said.
Yeah, absolutely what everyone has said about this point I agree with. Sim 66 was a writing experiment that's paid off for me as I really enjoy writing it and am invested in the characters. If you're going to go down the soap opera/long running TV series idea with SimLit is that when you play the game have your antennae tuned to any potential storylines and scenes that develop. A visit from some random townie can spark off a subplot, attending one of the festivals, hanging out in Foxbury's common area all can spark off a scene, you've just got to pay close attention and be ready to screen grab. And every character has a backstory of their own. What I like about the soap opera gameplay approach is that you often don't know what happens; sure, you can orchestrate some things but it's fun to see things play out.
If you're going to go down the soap opera/long running TV series idea with SimLit is that when you play the game have your antennae tuned to any potential storylines and scenes that develop. A visit from some random townie can spark off a subplot, attending one of the festivals, hanging out in Foxbury's common area all can spark off a scene, you've just got to pay close attention and be ready to screen grab. And every character has a backstory of their own. What I like about the soap opera gameplay approach is that you often don't know what happens; sure, you can orchestrate some things but it's fun to see things play out.
It's what I like about The Sims as a medium for writing, really. Because I personally have plot lines and scenes planned out when I go to set up my screenshots, but I may also decide to suddenly incorporate a really interesting townie, which can then change the entire plot. You don't get that kind of extra input if you just write literature.
To touch on what Kellog and Siriana have said, one thing I love about SimLit as well is I don't have to come up with everything (I'm lazy). This is why I also like being a DnD game master, because it's a collab project between you, your players, and however much 'official' lore you're including. I find writing much more fun when I'm filling in the blanks, much less stressful when you don't have to come up with every single thing. And I love seeing everyone's takes on the worlds and premades as well.
I’ve been trying to “come up with” a little more than what I usually do, to make it more “SimLit”/story-like rather than a chronicle of what my characters have been doing. Mostly, though, I like thinking of what my characters’ children will be called, and what they’ll wear. But that can be fairly important - names are usually chosen by the parents and there’s sometimes meaning behind the names (eg honouring a parent’s culture, or after a relative) and clothing is often a reflection of who the person is (although sometimes I just choose the clothing based on their favourite colour/what I like the look of, and there’s no deeper meaning behind it).
I am pretty flexible when it comes to planning too. Like when I created a mini-save to play the boyfriend/future husband of one of my characters from scratch, and his dad died before he was born. I decided to roll with it, and the guy’s lack of a father figure will be incorporated into the story later on.
I tend to create my characters’ spouses from scratch (ie birth) so they can build skills etc, because they feel a little more real to me and I’m more invested in them. Plus it gives me a break from my main story if I’m feeling a little uninspired. And it also gives them family members who can come to the wedding/be befriended etc which is always nice.
Some really good suggestions and different approaches here.
If you're going to go down the soap opera/long running TV series idea with SimLit is that when you play the game have your antennae tuned to any potential storylines and scenes that develop. A visit from some random townie can spark off a subplot, attending one of the festivals, hanging out in Foxbury's common area all can spark off a scene, you've just got to pay close attention and be ready to screen grab.
That's definitely true!
I have more to say about this, but it got a bit long, so it's under the spoiler.
In the story I've been working on, I've had quite a few plot developments, subplot ideas, backstory ideas, and character development ideas come from odd details as I was getting screenshots for something different. And the story has taken turns that aren't what I originally had imagined. Something as simple as one of my characters checking his phone at a weird moment actually triggered a huge part of his plot and character idea. Catching one character's scowl upon meeting another character triggered another idea. Repeatedly seeing the same image in protesters' signs, a mural in progress, and a graffiti defaced mural is bringing on another idea that I will probably be running with. It's one of the fun aspects of working with the game to create a story, for sure. I enjoy taking details that seem insignificant and turning them into something important.
But for me, it's not just what random events the game throws at me. I love building my own lots as a way of thinking about how the story will unfold in that space. A lot of ideas I have used in the story came to me while building the next lot I needed. There's something about creating the physical space that the characters will move around in and interact with that really gets my creative mind working on who they are and how they think. I also enjoy making my own custom poses. Working on characters' body language and face expressions myself as I make the poses is also part of how I think about their emotions and motives. As is taking a ton of screenshots of a single scene or conversation using the in-game interactions and sifting through them to find the ones that most spark meaning for me.
I've struggled trying to write novels, because I always felt like I was holding myself back from letting the story get as complex and tangled as I wanted it to be.
When I'm letting myself be myself while writing, I naturally tend to do these things because I enjoy them:
- Deeply exploring characters' feelings, relationships, lives, and backstories
- Showing everyone's points of view, even if not everyone is likable, or even necessarily "relevant"
- Focusing on petty conflicts that rise and fall on their own rhythm, unconnected to any overarching plot
- Creating lots and lots of intertwining plot threads, that may start and end at different points in the story
- Shamelessly reveling in totally unbelievable "small-world" coincidences
- Having characters be completely clueless about really obvious things
- Breaking the "fourth wall" to poke fun at my own characters and story
Trying to write novels, I found it really hard to stick with a central plot or conflict, with a rise in action, climax, and conclusion, because I always wanted to spin off in other directions when some detail of a side character interested me, and I like things to build slowly into a really messy tangle. I finally got tired of trying to fit into the expected novel plot structure concept, and said, "I'm just going to write a story my way and see what happens". I'm having fun with it at least. No idea what it will ultimately turn into.
I can fully identify with these statements from @Kellogg_J_Kellogg and @GlacierSnow . It has happened to me several times that a random passer-by forces themselves into a role in the story, simply because there is something about their actions or expression that arouses my curiosity. Makes me want to research/develop them more. It can end up being a patchwork of supporting characters and layers, but it makes my game so much more interesting and it puts my creativity to work.
I love decorating my characters' homes or the environments they live in. However, I'm not patient enough to build the houses from scratch.
I have noticed a change in the game that may have come with the latest updates. Even though I have deselected wants and fears in the settings, it happens comparatively more often that a Simmer suddenly take initiatives that have not been chosen on my part. It is both an annoyance and a gift. I can't really decide which one I lean towards the most. I wonder if this is just something I experience in my game?
I don't use poses. I'm trying to take advantage of what the game gives me and so far it's plenty. I constantly have my finger on the pause button to capture an interesting development and I often turn and turn the camera to get a better angle for my photograph. Here the Tab key is my best tool.
In my current story, it was not my plan at all for it to develop into a long-running serial.
I wouldn't call it a soap opera because I think one of the characteristics of Soap is that the characters never develop regardless of what they are exposed to. Personal development is one of the things that really catches my attention. For better or worse.
I have decided that it will end at some point. I get ideas that don't really fit into the current story. They will be put in a box for now.
NB: I love your pointed statements @GlacierSnow and I can recognize several of them. They are probably one of the reasons why the Sims game, despite its bugs and shortcomings, continues to be entertaining.
Seventeen & Maldusk is now being shared online. You can click on the link in my signature banner to go to the Sims 4 forum thread where I will be announcing updates etc. to get the website link. Thanks for your encouragement and enthusiasm. Hope you enjoy!
@GlacierSnow Yeeeeeeeees the hype for this one is high! 😁 I'm currently mind-soup from DMing all weekend, but once my brain resets, I'll be sure to give it a read! I am already very fixated on what is going on with that purple cat and I haven't even started reading yet, ha.
Hosting D&D sessions on the side. Interested in playing through some fantasy-themed shenanigans? Send me a message 😘
@_sims_Yimi I'm excited and terrified. I truly didn't mean to hype it, I just needed something to talk about here. But it's out now, for better or for worse. I hope you like it!
I’ve been trying to “come up with” a little more than what I usually do, to make it more “SimLit”/story-like rather than a chronicle of what my characters have been doing. Mostly, though, I like thinking of what my characters’ children will be called, and what they’ll wear. But that can be fairly important - names are usually chosen by the parents and there’s sometimes meaning behind the names (eg honouring a parent’s culture, or after a relative) and clothing is often a reflection of who the person is (although sometimes I just choose the clothing based on their favourite colour/what I like the look of, and there’s no deeper meaning behind it).
i tried that once . and only once i decied it was a good idea for ayden and elsas parents to meet, noel ended up stealing elsa from ayden.
Hi people, I'm looking for tips and tricks for SimLit and was told this was the place to go? I'd love to hear about your personal process in writing with The Sims as a medium. How you organize yourself and stay motivated. I'd love to know what you do when (if) you get ahead in the game and still want to play the same, but the game is too far ahead of the story, which has happened to me, haha. Do you have separate saves for playing, or do you only use The Sims as a creative medium? But yeah, learning about other's processes helps me out a lot to know more about myself as a writer, and it's always fun to learn others' processes.
River. Any pronouns are fine, but I mainly go by they/them. Neurodivergent, cat parent, tea addict. Occult and berry sim SimLit.
Hi @riverbloe
I think you have come to the right place. If you read back in the thread over the past months, I think you will find a lot of statements about exactly the questions you are messing with
Regarding organization. I have made a kind of script, which I relate to quite loosely. If something exciting happens in the game, I often continue down that path, even if it's not planned in advance. However, I have a long-term goal regarding where my story should end.
Motivation and ideas arise while I play. My characters almost come alive and take on a life of their own
To your question about what I do if I get too far into the game in relation to the story, I will say that it happens to me very often.
I often save my game under a new name so I can return to a scene and take additional shots. Lately I've started naming these saves after the current chapter I'm writing on. I probably have 50-75 saves (maybe more ) for my current story. Everything is copied to an external drive in case something happens to my drive. Call me paranoid, but I have experienced my game crashing too often during the time I played sims 3.
I have a couple of saves I only use for relaxation. The characters in this saves are not part of any story.
Comments
Maybe you'll want to resume your legacy in a year or two. Maybe not. A good long break can be very life-giving and inspiring.
@Kellogg_J_Kellogg I love that wording. I feel it suits my process very well.
I actually also like that you put off the ending until you burn out of ideas yourself. It gives me something to think about. It's great
I think you of all writers could get away with that. I remember when I first saw your legacy and I was surprised that it didn't start from the beginning, but then I actually liked that there was that feeling of a solid background behind it, even if that hadn't been written down. And if you then end it abruptly, the Fier Legacy will just feel like we just got a short glimpse into a vast family, spanning centuries. I think it would be fine.
(Also I'd totally look through the screenshots without text, you do the prettiest screenshots!)
according to ayden i can't stop til he says so. hes 5 right now so that sounds about right.
I finally got Pose Player (I think @_sims_Yimi gave me advice about it in the Tales of Camelot thread) so that’ll be really useful. I’ve got some weddings coming up in the Parker Saga (Hazel and Will have been engaged for a ridiculously long time now
i tried that once. but the benders don't like listenining.
To me this is very different from a novel, where at the end of each chapter it's possible to just turn the page and start a new one, and actually also very different from a movie where scenes are just coming one after the other until the end.
Simlit to me instead feels more like TV series or also reading comics or manga, where the release of a new chapter/episode enters the weekly/monthly routine and you get a lot of time to think or discuss what could be happening next.
I also see the parallel between well-established simlit stories and those TV series, comics/manga etc... which I started following when a lot of episodes/chapters were already available. In those cases I always tend to binge-watch/read a lot of episodes/chapters in a very short time to catch up with the latest one, and then I have a crisis when I realize that for the following chapter I have to wait for a long whole week/month
Anyway, unlike novels or movies, these "in instalment" media very often go on forever or for a very long time. When the author still has a lot of ideas for its characters and setting, in this case it's very easy to just go on with a lot of new chapters and story arcs, without a well-set ending in mind.
And it gets even more aggravating if the author dies before the series is finished.
Unless another person is willing to pick up where the original creator left off, the series ends up being abandoned, and fans are left hanging.
Part One(Complete 9/24/16) /Part Two(on hold)/Short Stories(on hold)/Twinbrook 1996(on hold)/Ten Crystal Hearts (on hold)
I own the TS3 Store as of 12/11/16 (sort of. It's complicated)
Uh, that's bad too, that's true...
Yeah, absolutely what everyone has said about this point I agree with. Sim 66 was a writing experiment that's paid off for me as I really enjoy writing it and am invested in the characters. If you're going to go down the soap opera/long running TV series idea with SimLit is that when you play the game have your antennae tuned to any potential storylines and scenes that develop. A visit from some random townie can spark off a subplot, attending one of the festivals, hanging out in Foxbury's common area all can spark off a scene, you've just got to pay close attention and be ready to screen grab. And every character has a backstory of their own. What I like about the soap opera gameplay approach is that you often don't know what happens; sure, you can orchestrate some things but it's fun to see things play out.
Read Sim 66 here:https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/978195/sim-66/p1
https://kelloggjkellogg.blogspot.com/2020/10/sim-66-prologue.html
It's what I like about The Sims as a medium for writing, really. Because I personally have plot lines and scenes planned out when I go to set up my screenshots, but I may also decide to suddenly incorporate a really interesting townie, which can then change the entire plot. You don't get that kind of extra input if you just write literature.
To touch on what Kellog and Siriana have said, one thing I love about SimLit as well is I don't have to come up with everything (I'm lazy). This is why I also like being a DnD game master, because it's a collab project between you, your players, and however much 'official' lore you're including. I find writing much more fun when I'm filling in the blanks, much less stressful when you don't have to come up with every single thing. And I love seeing everyone's takes on the worlds and premades as well.
I tend to create my characters’ spouses from scratch (ie birth) so they can build skills etc, because they feel a little more real to me and I’m more invested in them. Plus it gives me a break from my main story if I’m feeling a little uninspired. And it also gives them family members who can come to the wedding/be befriended etc which is always nice.
That's definitely true!
I have more to say about this, but it got a bit long, so it's under the spoiler.
In the story I've been working on, I've had quite a few plot developments, subplot ideas, backstory ideas, and character development ideas come from odd details as I was getting screenshots for something different. And the story has taken turns that aren't what I originally had imagined. Something as simple as one of my characters checking his phone at a weird moment actually triggered a huge part of his plot and character idea. Catching one character's scowl upon meeting another character triggered another idea. Repeatedly seeing the same image in protesters' signs, a mural in progress, and a graffiti defaced mural is bringing on another idea that I will probably be running with. It's one of the fun aspects of working with the game to create a story, for sure. I enjoy taking details that seem insignificant and turning them into something important.
But for me, it's not just what random events the game throws at me. I love building my own lots as a way of thinking about how the story will unfold in that space. A lot of ideas I have used in the story came to me while building the next lot I needed. There's something about creating the physical space that the characters will move around in and interact with that really gets my creative mind working on who they are and how they think. I also enjoy making my own custom poses. Working on characters' body language and face expressions myself as I make the poses is also part of how I think about their emotions and motives. As is taking a ton of screenshots of a single scene or conversation using the in-game interactions and sifting through them to find the ones that most spark meaning for me.
I've struggled trying to write novels, because I always felt like I was holding myself back from letting the story get as complex and tangled as I wanted it to be.
When I'm letting myself be myself while writing, I naturally tend to do these things because I enjoy them:
- Deeply exploring characters' feelings, relationships, lives, and backstories
- Showing everyone's points of view, even if not everyone is likable, or even necessarily "relevant"
- Focusing on petty conflicts that rise and fall on their own rhythm, unconnected to any overarching plot
- Creating lots and lots of intertwining plot threads, that may start and end at different points in the story
- Shamelessly reveling in totally unbelievable "small-world" coincidences
- Having characters be completely clueless about really obvious things
- Breaking the "fourth wall" to poke fun at my own characters and story
Trying to write novels, I found it really hard to stick with a central plot or conflict, with a rise in action, climax, and conclusion, because I always wanted to spin off in other directions when some detail of a side character interested me, and I like things to build slowly into a really messy tangle. I finally got tired of trying to fit into the expected novel plot structure concept, and said, "I'm just going to write a story my way and see what happens". I'm having fun with it at least. No idea what it will ultimately turn into.
I love decorating my characters' homes or the environments they live in. However, I'm not patient enough to build the houses from scratch.
I have noticed a change in the game that may have come with the latest updates. Even though I have deselected wants and fears in the settings, it happens comparatively more often that a Simmer suddenly take initiatives that have not been chosen on my part. It is both an annoyance and a gift. I can't really decide which one I lean towards the most. I wonder if this is just something I experience in my game?
I don't use poses. I'm trying to take advantage of what the game gives me and so far it's plenty. I constantly have my finger on the pause button to capture an interesting development and I often turn and turn the camera to get a better angle for my photograph. Here the Tab key is my best tool.
In my current story, it was not my plan at all for it to develop into a long-running serial.
I wouldn't call it a soap opera because I think one of the characteristics of Soap is that the characters never develop regardless of what they are exposed to. Personal development is one of the things that really catches my attention. For better or worse.
I have decided that it will end at some point. I get ideas that don't really fit into the current story. They will be put in a box for now.
NB: I love your pointed statements @GlacierSnow and I can recognize several of them. They are probably one of the reasons why the Sims game, despite its bugs and shortcomings, continues to be entertaining.
Seventeen & Maldusk is now being shared online. You can click on the link in my signature banner to go to the Sims 4 forum thread where I will be announcing updates etc. to get the website link. Thanks for your encouragement and enthusiasm. Hope you enjoy!
i tried that once . and only once i decied it was a good idea for ayden and elsas parents to meet, noel ended up stealing elsa from ayden.
I think you have come to the right place. If you read back in the thread over the past months, I think you will find a lot of statements about exactly the questions you are messing with
Regarding organization. I have made a kind of script, which I relate to quite loosely. If something exciting happens in the game, I often continue down that path, even if it's not planned in advance. However, I have a long-term goal regarding where my story should end.
Motivation and ideas arise while I play. My characters almost come alive and take on a life of their own
To your question about what I do if I get too far into the game in relation to the story, I will say that it happens to me very often.
I often save my game under a new name so I can return to a scene and take additional shots. Lately I've started naming these saves after the current chapter I'm writing on. I probably have 50-75 saves (maybe more
I have a couple of saves I only use for relaxation. The characters in this saves are not part of any story.