I have a disability. And a life long health condition. I don’t want disabilities in my game. I play to escape, not be reminded of it. And I don’t trust they would do it right or respectfully. I respect many people want it but for me this would finally make me push the uninstall button.
And No mental health illnesses should not be in the game. My mental health condition is not entertainment. It’s not something that would make for very fun game play and they are all so different it would be impossible to represent everyone accurately. It would be incredibly disrespectful.
I absolutely understand you. However, until EA/Maxis stops the tag line and patting themselves on the back for how inclusive and 'diverse' they are and catering to only those they favor, then I will keep requesting they actually become inclusive and diverse include the rest of the world out here.
It seems to me EA/Maxis is only interested in representation for a small amount of people who have very loud voices and lobbying powers. That is not inclusivity nor diversity. That is catering.
They go on about how the game reflects the worlds we live in (our neck of the woods) however, it doesn't represent those people in those 'worlds'. They go out of their way over and over to make sure some get a lot of attention and content and changes in the game. That is not inclusivity. If we look out our windows we see disabled folks, disabled children who meet a physical challenge daily. We see other types of people who are deeply devoted to their beliefs. This game has no such representation of any of these people.
I would have preferred The Sims had remained a life simulator about exaggerating how people handle situations and life but it's EA/Maxis who chose to turn the series into a game or avatar about Representation. With that in mind then yes, if they are going to say it's a simself game about representation then they should actually start working on that instead of just catering one way.
I'm very happy with older games where the games mimic life and exaggerate how crazy we all can get if there is a clown making us cry, but I'm not ok with hypocrisy of a life representation when more than half the world we live in is missing and this tag line inclusive and diverse is nothing more than a big empty farce.
Oh I do agree there shouldn’t be a focus on those they favour. In part this is why everyone now wants to be represented because those in charge make such a song and dance about living your true self in the game and I think it’s bitten them on the backside. They can’t represent everyone in the world. In an idea, world yes they would but they would most likely half 🐸🐸🐸🐸 it in a realistic world. So I can understand people with disabilities saying “Well actually I can’t play myself authentically” even though I personally can think of nothing more depressing than a game portraying my health conditions. To each their own.
I'm not sure if I would like this in the game. On the one side I know that diversity is not only about the skin color or sexual orientation. I have a lot of experience with disabled in my family. My mother needed a wheelchair, my father had hearing aids like my siblings, my uncle is deaf, my doughter struggles with depressions like my mother did, aso. I also have health issues. It is important to talk about this.
On the other side I don't see how they would integrate this into the game. For example wheelchairs: we all know how poor the game is developed. Do you really want them to be full of bugs and glitches?
Or mental illnesses: I don't like how they handled it with social awkwardness. What will they do with depressions? Will it end with players having fun with playing suizides?
Last year when they added lactose intolerant trait to the game I was a little bit upset. I also have intolerances and I can tell you it is no fun. They cause me a lot of pain. My sims never get this trait.
I thought a lot about this topic in the past and came to the result that I don't want this in my game. Not because it's not important. Only because I can't see how they could do it well. It is not the game nor the community for this.
What I see happening if the team ever implements disabilities:
1.) "Yay my disability is here! Thank you Maxis!"
2.) "What the heck??? They didnt include my disability! Obviously they dont think I exist!"
3.) "I dont want disabilities in the game! I hate dealing with mine irl, why would I want to deal with it in a game!? This is disrespectful!"
4.) "Um Maxis? My wheelchair bound sim is still getting up from the chair and doing things as if their legs still work and....WHY IS THE WHEELCHAIR STILL ATTACHED TO THEIR BUTT? They are legit walking around with the wheelchair on their butt! Fix this!"
5.) "Omg more agenda pushing instead of adding gameplay features and fixes that simmers have been asking for! Where are my babies and cars???"
6.) "How shocking. People are complaining over how "annoying" disabilities are and want them nerfed or are just editing them away, saying they "fixed" their sims! I wish I could do the same with my disability!"
7.) "Maxis CLEARLY did no research whatsoever because they got this this and this wrong, they didnt include these exact symptoms to this, this and this...have they even seen a disabled person??? Obviously not if this is what they think is "good respresentation"! Probably didnt even get insight from actual disabled people!"
Im neutral to disability inclusion myself, but if we do get disability gameplay it is going to be a giant poopstorm in the community.
I have a disability. And a life long health condition. I don’t want disabilities in my game. I play to escape, not be reminded of it. And I don’t trust they would do it right or respectfully. I respect many people want it but for me this would finally make me push the uninstall button.
And No mental health illnesses should not be in the game. My mental health condition is not entertainment. It’s not something that would make for very fun game play and they are all so different it would be impossible to represent everyone accurately. It would be incredibly disrespectful.
I absolutely understand you. However, until EA/Maxis stops the tag line and patting themselves on the back for how inclusive and 'diverse' they are and catering to only those they favor, then I will keep requesting they actually become inclusive and diverse include the rest of the world out here.
It seems to me EA/Maxis is only interested in representation for a small amount of people who have very loud voices and lobbying powers. That is not inclusivity nor diversity. That is catering.
They go on about how the game reflects the worlds we live in (our neck of the woods) however, it doesn't represent those people in those 'worlds'. They go out of their way over and over to make sure some get a lot of attention and content and changes in the game. That is not inclusivity. If we look out our windows we see disabled folks, disabled children who meet a physical challenge daily. We see other types of people who are deeply devoted to their beliefs. This game has no such representation of any of these people.
I would have preferred The Sims had remained a life simulator about exaggerating how people handle situations and life but it's EA/Maxis who chose to turn the series into a game or avatar about Representation. With that in mind then yes, if they are going to say it's a simself game about representation then they should actually start working on that instead of just catering one way.
I'm very happy with older games where the games mimic life and exaggerate how crazy we all can get if there is a clown making us cry, but I'm not ok with hypocrisy of a life representation when more than half the world we live in is missing and this tag line inclusive and diverse is nothing more than a big empty farce.
Oh I do agree there shouldn’t be a focus on those they favour. In part this is why everyone now wants to be represented because those in charge make such a song and dance about living your true self in the game and I think it’s bitten them on the backside. They can’t represent everyone in the world. In an idea, world yes they would but they would most likely half 🤔🤔🤔🤔 it in a realistic world. So I can understand people with disabilities saying “Well actually I can’t play myself authentically” even though I personally can think of nothing more depressing than a game portraying my health conditions. To each their own.
I don't think they should try represent any and all disabilities and health conditions in game. Yes people might want to create themselves, but to do so would make the game too complex, and this is not a medical game. If people want to create themselves, let them do so, and give some options, but not go into minute details. Maybe they set a bad precedent with the skin colours, where they gave in to people wanting to have their exact skin colour in game, hope they don't try to do the same with disabilities and opt for broad representations instead.
I think its just too complicated to add for a game
not only cause all the animations they'd have to redo at this point but also like in real life disabled people often find ways to do things that people expect them unable to do due to their disability
and then it would kind of feel off that game is saying "you can't do this because you're disabled" you know like plum watch me
but simultaneously itd feel off to have disabled sim that suddenly just decides to not be disabled to do something cause thats not how it works either
guess i could see some things added where it doesn't require lots of animations etc but then like why do we get this but not that would be the next issue
and ofcourse there would have to be toggle for everything because some people just don't want to be reminded of their disability even in games
As someone with mental health issues: No. Absolutely not. My issues are not "fun", they are not "entertainment". It is not a game's job to "educate" people on these things.
I wouldn't mind wheelchairs, hearing aids, or stuff like that, but mental health issues/eating disorders? Absolutely not.
This is such a touchy subject. I am all for inclusion and people being able to play their game the way they want and create the sims that they want. I have chronic asthma and a heart condition that can both affect my daily functioning and I would be okay with them being added as an all inclusive 0 point reward trait called something like “easily fatigued” which just gives you a little tired or winded buff after too much physical activity. Then I could just say my sim has XYZ in my gameplay without potentially offending or excluding anyone with in game descriptions. Absolutely no new deaths as a result of any disability being added though.
I would 100% like to see inclusive content such as canes, walkers, hearing aids, wheelchairs, leg braces, prosthetic limbs etc added without having a specific disability description attached to them. I would also like blind, deaf, nonverbal, sound sensitivity, light sensitivity, selective food eater reward traits (0 points of course) as I would love to recreate someone dear to my heart, a teen that is a nonverbal, music loving, foodie with texture and sound sensitivities and since teens are limited to 2 traits but can have unlimited reward traits, that would help.
I honestly think mobility aids and reward traits without specific disability descriptions would be the best way to go.
As someone who's disabled as a result of my mental health issues (depression, and crippling anxiety [both GAD and SAD]) and limitations from a neurological disorder that I was born with (I can't stand for a long period of time, I have a limited breathing capacity and am unable to handle more than one flight of stairs, unable to lift more than ten pounds, and have terrible balance and hand-eye-coordination to name a few) I can understand the need for representation, but I am vehemently against it being included in The Sims.
It is far too touchy of a subject and since not every disabled person faces the same challenges or is able to manage them in the same way (even if they have the same disability) any attempt to include them in the game would likely just come across as tone deaf and disrespectful. While some people who are disabled can and do excel, others may not be able to do so, and quite frankly it would be impossible to include both those who can more or less live a normal life despite their disabilities and those who are unable to in the game since disabilities affect those who deal with them differently. We would end up having disabilities being represented one way, or the other but not both which would just end up excluding someone anyway.
And in addition to that, I don't trust that disabilities would be handled with the proper respect and sensitivity that would be critical for something as significant as this. Not only would it require a buttload of research to be anywhere close to accurate, but again disability affects everyone differently and -- I can not stress this enough, it would be impossible to represent every disabled person or even every disability. Especially without something coming across as tone-deaf in some manner and this would be placing the game devs in an entirely lose-lose situation.
And not only is it going to be impossible to properly represent every person with a disability, but as others on this thread have mentioned, it would also be far too difficult to actually implement. Sure things like (non-functional) hearing aids, cochlear implants, canes, and prosthetic limbs, etc would be easy enough seeing as they're just CAS additions. But in order to implement actual functional wheelchairs, the devs would have to revisit and rework every animation in game to suit wheel-chaired sims and I don't think the team realistically has the budget or resources to do so. And that's not even taking into consideration the time constraints that the devs would be faced with to roll something like this out. I mean pronouns (something which is arguably much simpler to implement than disabilities) has only been rolled out in the English version of the game and that alone has already caused a great deal of backlash. Can you imagine if something as big as disabilities were to be rolled out incomplete, and with only a few coming in the first wave of a hypothetical update? And I'm just talking about simple single sim interactions here. Implementing interactions between wheel-chair and non-wheel-chaired sims would be an entirely separate set of animations which would be even more work to properly implement. And this isn't even taking into consideration that potential bugs that such an endeavor would create.
I also don't like, nor do I think most of the community would take too kindly to the "stuff happens" aspect proposed in the original post. While some people like just playing the game and letting things happen organically, the more randomness -- the better, there are also a large number of "storyteller" type of players who want their games to go according to their the stories they have planned and that they personally want to tell. Having your sims being able to randomly become disabled without any input from the player would greatly impact this style of play. A feature such as this would have to almost certainly be 100% opt-in.
As for eating disorders and actual mental-illness coming to the game, I'm a hard disagree on those things as well, for both the points I mentioned in my own post, and for many of the reasons mentioned by other people in this thread.
In Saints Row (2022), it's strange and I feel uncomfortable about a boss with prosthetics when nobody else in the game have one.
But, in Cyberpunk 2077, it doesn't shock me because everybody is wearing chrome and implants.
I think it will depend on what theme will be used to introduce this feature.
A Future themed pack would be a positive way to do it (A world where the technology can "fix any problem").
Mental illness and physical disabilities would feel too realistic for TS4, and to be honest, hit too close to home for me. I don't know how in the world they would go about implementing such things, without someone somewhere getting triggered or insulted or disappointed.
I have disabilities in real life. I really don't care to be reminded of them in my game. I'm playing the game for fun and not realism. Thank you but no thank you. Hugs ♥
As someone who has a mental illness, I think the socially awkward trait is a nice touch but the erratic one is totally unrelatable and unrealistic. I face enough stigma in real life, I don't need it in the game.
How interesting. I came here to post pretty much the same as the OP at the start of this thread. I note that some people say the Sims is a fantasy. Granted there are magicians, vampires, and werewolves, not to mention Star Wars, but when not acting as such they do act as humans. Even so, the Sims is a life simulation and tries to be as realistic as possible. Most of the packs etc etc, are to enhance that simulation, not fantasy.
So, I agree about at least wheelchairs. But perhaps for Sims 5 because it would take a lot of meshing in with the game. Wheelchairs, ramps, lifts. Wet rooms (already available, really.) Why would that offend anyone?
Another thought I had was about CAS. You can make them thin, buff, fat. (Does being able to create fat slobs offend anyone? Apparently not.) But humans also come in different heights.
I notice here that people do not want 'mental' Sims, but they can already be so. Look at the CAS options. And what about them already occasionally having crying mental breakdowns. Does anyone moan about that?
Anyway, Sims are strange. Often, they will red-line as they play on a PC or doing something else they enjoy. Just who does not go for a P when so desperate? Or to eat, or to sleep. If anything needs improving, it's the AI. Leave them 100% to their own actions and they would possibly die! And those desires that pop up over their heads (in the UI) if they really want to do those things, why don't they? They have to be 'told' to.
And thank goodness for bugreset, when they just seem to get stuck to the spot.
First of all, wheelies don't go into the shower with their wheelchair.
And second, Maxis showed us, that inclusion is a big thing and adding more disabilities would be the next step. Wheelchairs are "normal" and part of life. And it would be a great chance, that being wheelies are able to live a normal life, with a job, with woohoo, with children and with sports.
Yes some do it's called a shower wheelchair
Sims 4 went from "You Rule" to "One of the stories we want you to tell"
> @Babykittyjade said: > Plus this is a silly game that's meant to be funny. Life, but a silly funny version of life that doesn't make much sense. I feel like people no longer want that. That want hard cold real life. So do the sims make the disabilities silly to fit the rest of the game? Or turn this 100% serious which the sims is not? > Plus it's like a vicious cycle imo. The more realism you bring the more serious people take it, which means the more easily triggered people become because they see it as their real personal life instead of a game.
disabilities should not be a controversial tradegdy, its just people reality. disabilities aren't hard nor cold, their just things that exist. as disabled myself, id love to see representation. let disabled people see themselves and be happy!
I feel that the best way they could do this is firstly not shoehorn it into the sims 4. It’s not made for it and won’t do it justice.
But in a future game they could look at wheelchairs crutches and the like, perhaps as a default for some elderly sims but you could create younger sims who use them.
I don’t think it’s anything they should go hugely in depth with - just a few items/animations. But it doesn’t hurt to have some inclusion at the most basic level for sure.
Comments
Oh I do agree there shouldn’t be a focus on those they favour. In part this is why everyone now wants to be represented because those in charge make such a song and dance about living your true self in the game and I think it’s bitten them on the backside. They can’t represent everyone in the world. In an idea, world yes they would but they would most likely half 🐸🐸🐸🐸 it in a realistic world. So I can understand people with disabilities saying “Well actually I can’t play myself authentically” even though I personally can think of nothing more depressing than a game portraying my health conditions. To each their own.
On the other side I don't see how they would integrate this into the game. For example wheelchairs: we all know how poor the game is developed. Do you really want them to be full of bugs and glitches?
Or mental illnesses: I don't like how they handled it with social awkwardness. What will they do with depressions? Will it end with players having fun with playing suizides?
Last year when they added lactose intolerant trait to the game I was a little bit upset. I also have intolerances and I can tell you it is no fun. They cause me a lot of pain. My sims never get this trait.
I thought a lot about this topic in the past and came to the result that I don't want this in my game. Not because it's not important. Only because I can't see how they could do it well. It is not the game nor the community for this.
1.) "Yay my disability is here! Thank you Maxis!"
2.) "What the heck??? They didnt include my disability! Obviously they dont think I exist!"
3.) "I dont want disabilities in the game! I hate dealing with mine irl, why would I want to deal with it in a game!? This is disrespectful!"
4.) "Um Maxis? My wheelchair bound sim is still getting up from the chair and doing things as if their legs still work and....WHY IS THE WHEELCHAIR STILL ATTACHED TO THEIR BUTT? They are legit walking around with the wheelchair on their butt! Fix this!"
5.) "Omg more agenda pushing instead of adding gameplay features and fixes that simmers have been asking for! Where are my babies and cars???"
6.) "How shocking. People are complaining over how "annoying" disabilities are and want them nerfed or are just editing them away, saying they "fixed" their sims! I wish I could do the same with my disability!"
7.) "Maxis CLEARLY did no research whatsoever because they got this this and this wrong, they didnt include these exact symptoms to this, this and this...have they even seen a disabled person??? Obviously not if this is what they think is "good respresentation"! Probably didnt even get insight from actual disabled people!"
Im neutral to disability inclusion myself, but if we do get disability gameplay it is going to be a giant poopstorm in the community.
I don't think they should try represent any and all disabilities and health conditions in game. Yes people might want to create themselves, but to do so would make the game too complex, and this is not a medical game. If people want to create themselves, let them do so, and give some options, but not go into minute details. Maybe they set a bad precedent with the skin colours, where they gave in to people wanting to have their exact skin colour in game, hope they don't try to do the same with disabilities and opt for broad representations instead.
not only cause all the animations they'd have to redo at this point but also like in real life disabled people often find ways to do things that people expect them unable to do due to their disability
and then it would kind of feel off that game is saying "you can't do this because you're disabled" you know like plum watch me
but simultaneously itd feel off to have disabled sim that suddenly just decides to not be disabled to do something cause thats not how it works either
guess i could see some things added where it doesn't require lots of animations etc but then like why do we get this but not that would be the next issue
and ofcourse there would have to be toggle for everything because some people just don't want to be reminded of their disability even in games
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A lot of players, for whatever reason(s), wouldn't want this in their game. I know I don't, and I both have disabilities and work in the industry.
EA can't get normal stuff right. I seriously doubt they could handle this in a respectful and accurate manner.
If it was to happen, it is better left to the modding community, where there is so much incredible work being done with attention to detail.
I wouldn't mind wheelchairs, hearing aids, or stuff like that, but mental health issues/eating disorders? Absolutely not.
I would 100% like to see inclusive content such as canes, walkers, hearing aids, wheelchairs, leg braces, prosthetic limbs etc added without having a specific disability description attached to them. I would also like blind, deaf, nonverbal, sound sensitivity, light sensitivity, selective food eater reward traits (0 points of course) as I would love to recreate someone dear to my heart, a teen that is a nonverbal, music loving, foodie with texture and sound sensitivities and since teens are limited to 2 traits but can have unlimited reward traits, that would help.
I honestly think mobility aids and reward traits without specific disability descriptions would be the best way to go.
In TS4
Physical : Wearing glasses
Mental : Maybe Kleptomaniac and Erratic traits
The Sims 4 Ideas Corner
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The Sims 4 General DiscussionIt is far too touchy of a subject and since not every disabled person faces the same challenges or is able to manage them in the same way (even if they have the same disability) any attempt to include them in the game would likely just come across as tone deaf and disrespectful. While some people who are disabled can and do excel, others may not be able to do so, and quite frankly it would be impossible to include both those who can more or less live a normal life despite their disabilities and those who are unable to in the game since disabilities affect those who deal with them differently. We would end up having disabilities being represented one way, or the other but not both which would just end up excluding someone anyway.
And in addition to that, I don't trust that disabilities would be handled with the proper respect and sensitivity that would be critical for something as significant as this. Not only would it require a buttload of research to be anywhere close to accurate, but again disability affects everyone differently and -- I can not stress this enough, it would be impossible to represent every disabled person or even every disability. Especially without something coming across as tone-deaf in some manner and this would be placing the game devs in an entirely lose-lose situation.
And not only is it going to be impossible to properly represent every person with a disability, but as others on this thread have mentioned, it would also be far too difficult to actually implement. Sure things like (non-functional) hearing aids, cochlear implants, canes, and prosthetic limbs, etc would be easy enough seeing as they're just CAS additions. But in order to implement actual functional wheelchairs, the devs would have to revisit and rework every animation in game to suit wheel-chaired sims and I don't think the team realistically has the budget or resources to do so. And that's not even taking into consideration the time constraints that the devs would be faced with to roll something like this out. I mean pronouns (something which is arguably much simpler to implement than disabilities) has only been rolled out in the English version of the game and that alone has already caused a great deal of backlash. Can you imagine if something as big as disabilities were to be rolled out incomplete, and with only a few coming in the first wave of a hypothetical update? And I'm just talking about simple single sim interactions here. Implementing interactions between wheel-chair and non-wheel-chaired sims would be an entirely separate set of animations which would be even more work to properly implement. And this isn't even taking into consideration that potential bugs that such an endeavor would create.
I also don't like, nor do I think most of the community would take too kindly to the "stuff happens" aspect proposed in the original post. While some people like just playing the game and letting things happen organically, the more randomness -- the better, there are also a large number of "storyteller" type of players who want their games to go according to their the stories they have planned and that they personally want to tell. Having your sims being able to randomly become disabled without any input from the player would greatly impact this style of play. A feature such as this would have to almost certainly be 100% opt-in.
As for eating disorders and actual mental-illness coming to the game, I'm a hard disagree on those things as well, for both the points I mentioned in my own post, and for many of the reasons mentioned by other people in this thread.
But, in Cyberpunk 2077, it doesn't shock me because everybody is wearing chrome and implants.
I think it will depend on what theme will be used to introduce this feature.
A Future themed pack would be a positive way to do it (A world where the technology can "fix any problem").
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The Sims 4 General DiscussionGallery: Kathykins
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So, I agree about at least wheelchairs. But perhaps for Sims 5 because it would take a lot of meshing in with the game. Wheelchairs, ramps, lifts. Wet rooms (already available, really.) Why would that offend anyone?
Another thought I had was about CAS. You can make them thin, buff, fat. (Does being able to create fat slobs offend anyone? Apparently not.) But humans also come in different heights.
I notice here that people do not want 'mental' Sims, but they can already be so. Look at the CAS options. And what about them already occasionally having crying mental breakdowns. Does anyone moan about that?
Anyway, Sims are strange. Often, they will red-line as they play on a PC or doing something else they enjoy. Just who does not go for a P when so desperate? Or to eat, or to sleep. If anything needs improving, it's the AI. Leave them 100% to their own actions and they would possibly die! And those desires that pop up over their heads (in the UI) if they really want to do those things, why don't they? They have to be 'told' to.
And thank goodness for bugreset, when they just seem to get stuck to the spot.
> Plus this is a silly game that's meant to be funny. Life, but a silly funny version of life that doesn't make much sense. I feel like people no longer want that. That want hard cold real life. So do the sims make the disabilities silly to fit the rest of the game? Or turn this 100% serious which the sims is not?
> Plus it's like a vicious cycle imo. The more realism you bring the more serious people take it, which means the more easily triggered people become because they see it as their real personal life instead of a game.
disabilities should not be a controversial tradegdy, its just people reality. disabilities aren't hard nor cold, their just things that exist. as disabled myself, id love to see representation. let disabled people see themselves and be happy!
But in a future game they could look at wheelchairs crutches and the like, perhaps as a default for some elderly sims but you could create younger sims who use them.
I don’t think it’s anything they should go hugely in depth with - just a few items/animations. But it doesn’t hurt to have some inclusion at the most basic level for sure.