If you could set the age for elders to be unable to drive, would you? There's a story behind this:

HillyBeth · May 2022

Okay, so... My mom just got a brand-new car yesterday and today my 86 year old grandpa backs into it, denting and scratching it. This is the third car he's done this to in the past 12 years and now he's the one who will be paying for damages.

He should not be allowed behind the wheel anymore because of his poor eye-sight. Yes, he was okay, but no one in my house is happy with him.

logion · May 2022

In short. No, I wouldn't because for a lot of older people, having cars enables them to go outside where other forms of transportation would require a lot of them, or not be possible at all. I understand why it's a difficult subject though when thinking about other peoples safety.

In The Sims 4 elders can just teleport, but in reality, elders in the sims4 would have it very rough not being able to buy a car to help them with getting to places.

Calico45 · May 2022

Sims, no, and IRL, no. I'm in a similar situation with my grandfather, also in his 80s. He still drives to the store and fro, but new places he'll let his kids drive him so we haven't had any issues.

However, I do find it kind of... Concerning that he can renew his driver's license with about as much ease as me in my 20s. I don't think there should be an age cutoff because it is too rigid. I do believe in some regulations requiring driving competence, though.

I think it is largely left in the realm of familial control currently, and it makes sense because it is a pretty situational problem. (You can be unfit at 20 or still fit at 90, depending on your situation.) However, that also means the burden is personal along with the freedom it provides.

cyncie · May 2022

Not by age alone. I think driving record should be the standard. My mom is 88 and has never had an accident. She only drives short distances to run her own errands, and having that independence is important to her. I do worry, because I see her slowing down, but my strategy is to reduce the amount of time she is out in a car by being the driver and doing errands together as much as possible. I reminded her recently that she always said she would quit driving when she couldn’t do so safely. Right now, she’s not at that point.

Mariefoxprice83 · May 2022

Here in the UK you have to reapply for your licence at 70. I don't know if there is anything specific you have to do other than complete the application but I know my dad (now 72) did it.

dreamerz13 · May 2022

I wouldn't set an age where someone can't drive at all. But I would set an age where they would have to go for frequent license renewals (maybe yearly) that included an assessment of fitness to drive. I don't know the exact age I'd set or frequency of assessment I'd really want to hear feedback from people more educated in such matters than I am.

I also think it's on family to help stand up and say when a loved one is no longer fit to drive because we often see the signs first. The family had to decide when my grandpa was no longer fit to drive at about 80. His vision was getting really bad and so was his dementia. It was really hard to take that last but of independence from him but it had to be done.

I also think a lot more needs to be done at all ages. I could go on about the 30yr old woman who hit my parents when she shouldn't have been allowed to drive but it's still a pretty touch issue that really gets me riled up. But problems can happen at any age and I think that's important to note too, more needs to be done across the board imo.

But it is a fact that with age tends to come more health problems that can be dangerous behind the wheel so I stand by the opinion that eventually one should have to undergo more assessments to be allowed to keep their license. But I don't think there's a magic age where nobody should be allowed to drive. Many people are perfectly fit to drive at 80 and some aren't at 20. Let people retain that independence as long as they are mentally and physically fit to do so.

Finvola · May 2022

I don't think there should be an age limit. I live in Spain and you are required to get a medical exam when you renew your license. For example, someone who is middle aged with health conditions (like diabetes even) wouldn't be given a 5 year license, they would either be given a 3 or 1 year license depending on what the doctor determines during the medical exam. You get the medical exam then go back to the motor vehicles department and they issue the license depending on the doctor's report. So this would work for elders too, as everyone is different. So I don't think it should be based solely on age, but on health conditions

mcrudd · May 2022

Here in Nz it depends on a medical certificate. You need to go for a test every two years from your 75th birthday. I know a 92 year old that drives better than me. I also know someone that lost their license when they had their first medical too. So it depends on person to person. Not age specific.

https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/motoring-blog/senior-drivers-and-the-importance-of-license-renewal/

ignominiusrex · May 2022

It would be unfair to do it by age alone. I say this even as I recently only narrowly avoided a collision because a very old person continued pulling forward without glancing to their left at all, into the main road I was driving on, even though I was already in the space. I reacted fast enough to swerve left, into the oncoming lane, which I had noted in an instant had no car near enough that we'd have a head-on collision.

The elderly person continued on afterward, driving very uncertainly, too slowly, and I know that they should not be on the road, and an accident was narrowly avoided that day, but it's only a matter of time.

So I don't think leaving it til there is an accident is the best course, but neither is assuming someone's abilities to be insufficient for the task just because of age. Most countries have requirements in place for drivers above a certain age, to have a physical examination to determine continued fitness to drive, but in the US it is by the state. My state only requires people to pass a vision test in order to renew their license, at a certain age, and most others are similar, differing only in what age they require a vision test. Some states do not even require a vision test. Requiring only a vision test, ignores the big reasons why senescence can mean someone is too impaired to drive, which have nothing to do with eyesight.

Elderly drivers apparently only account for a fraction of the 2-car accidents that young drivers do, so they appear not to be the greatest demographic for problems, but when a person has dementia or other ailments that can make them a hazard behind the wheel, but can still see well enough to pass an eye exam, should they be on the roads?

I'm wondering what people who aren't in the US would say, based on how their country handles this issue?

Shadow_Assassin · May 2022

Though I would say "it depends", some things are not as simple as "it depends".

Many regulations are like this, in order to prevent possible safety hazards, so they are one-size-fits-all, like the rating system, however there's no denying that some people are just more mature or naive than the actually age.
But I can understand why, because some things are hard to find out. A healthy looking person may have hidden physical issues, which are common among older people (especially the elders). My dad is 54 yrs and looks healthy and strong, but he has some degree of cirrhosis or fatty liver. My parents have a friend who is much older (don't remember how old, can count elder anyway), a veteran with athletic body type, I once heard that he found out some kind of chronic disease common in middle-aged and elderly people. My elderly uncle-in-law has heart problems, though I remember he always look healthy (I haven't seen him in a long time, though he is a heavy smoker and alcohol lover. And I heard him say he started smoking when he was 13).
The most important is, sometimes the disease can flare up, though there may be no symptoms previously detected or not dangerous. This is usually because some kind of stimuli plus the general physically inner fragility of the elders, but this aspect is like the problems of the rating system (see below).
Like the rating system I mentioned, how can you be sure that this person must be mature enough? Though it can't sure that a person is too naive, it's also have many slip through the net (many people, including me, must be very experienced in this regard), but at least it can stop some "honest people" and no harm. Sometimes idealism really doesn't work.

But I think of a situation, where some kind of device could be invented in the future to monitor and stop the stimuli that could lead to dangerous of high-risk populations😃

In mainland China, for certain types of ground vehicles (other than military vehicles), there seems to be no strict driving age limit, but people over 70 cannot get a driver's license. However the latest regulations seem to have cancelled this, and change to must pass certain tests. Certain types are indeed over 60 or 70 cannot drive or take a driver's license.

Simmingal · May 2022

by age? no.
by health? yes.

if someone has poor eyesight or other health problems that make driving dangerous to them/others it should be reconsidered

maybe like every few years anyway just get checkup to see if you are still able to drive safely

one of my moms friends is half blind and they still make her drive a school bus daily

personally I don't even have driving license cause I've just decided against introducing cars to my life in first place

Finvola · May 2022

ignominiusrex wrote: »

It would be unfair to do it by age alone. I say this even as I recently only narrowly avoided a collision because a very old person continued pulling forward without glancing to their left at all, into the main road I was driving on, even though I was already in the space. I reacted fast enough to swerve left, into the oncoming lane, which I had noted in an instant had no car near enough that we'd have a head-on collision.

The elderly person continued on afterward, driving very uncertainly, too slowly, and I know that they should not be on the road, and an accident was narrowly avoided that day, but it's only a matter of time.

So I don't think leaving it til there is an accident is the best course, but neither is assuming someone's abilities to be insufficient for the task just because of age. Most countries have requirements in place for drivers above a certain age, to have a physical examination to determine continued fitness to drive, but in the US it is by the state. My state only requires people to pass a vision test in order to renew their license, at a certain age, and most others are similar, differing only in what age they require a vision test. Some states do not even require a vision test. Requiring only a vision test, ignores the big reasons why senescence can mean someone is too impaired to drive, which have nothing to do with eyesight.

Elderly drivers apparently only account for a fraction of the 2-car accidents that young drivers do, so they appear not to be the greatest demographic for problems, but when a person has dementia or other ailments that can make them a hazard behind the wheel, but can still see well enough to pass an eye exam, should they be on the roads?

I'm wondering what people who aren't in the US would say, based on how their country handles this issue?

I live in Spain now but I'm originally from the US. I grew up in Massachusetts. All that was required of us then was a hearing and eye test. That's how I discovered I needed glasses, when I applied for my learner's permit. But that's all I ever had to do when renewing my license, do the hearing and eye test. My grandmother had Alzheimer's and was half blind. She only had one good eye because the other was removed due to cancer (I think, it was before I was born). She had beginning stages of dementia but yet she had her license renewed because she passed the hearing and eye test and I think she was either in her late 60s or early 70s by then. She was still driving around. Then one day the police found her driving erratically in another state and thought she was a drunk driver. Thankfully she wasn't harmed and nobody else was. That's how she got her license removed and my family took her car away. Now years later, the same thing is happening to my uncle (her son) and my cousin had to get the authorities involved to revoke his father's license and then he took his car away. So now that I live abroad and have seen a different procedure to license renewal, I see that it is necessary to do a full medical assessment before deciding to renew a license and for how long.

WhatCobblers · May 2022

It's a difficult one because, as has been stated, many elderly people are fine and fully fit to drive whilst there are also others who clearly should not still be driving because they are putting themselves and others at risk.
In the UK, car insurance tends to be higher for young male drivers because, apparently according to statistics, most of the road accidents in the UK have involved this demographic. It does not seem fair to target one particular group in this way but because of the amount of times such accidents have happened, it has become so (even though there are probably many young males who are careful drivers). From my own personal experience, I have seen much more dangerous and inconsiderate driving behaviour from elderly drivers than from young males so am tempted to say not an all out ban, but maybe a retest at a certain age is a good idea.

I think the biggest problem with dangerous driving is not to do with age or health but people's attitudes. I have lost count of the amount of times I have been out driving and nearly been involved in a collision because someone else deemed it safe to overtake on the other side of the road, in front of approaching cars, or deemed it okay for to pull out in front of other drivers because of the self-centred belief that 'I can make it because my driving is perfect, therefore I don't need to take time to observe what's happening. I want do it so I'm going do it because I want to and I don't want to wait. Other drivers are the ones with the problem.' In fact, some drivers don't seem to even get to that first thought, all that seems to go through their heads is 'Don't wanna stop. Wanna go now! Wanna go fast! Mooooove!'
In my area it's even worse in the summer months because, for some bizarre reason, the act of going on holiday seems to temporarily numb the braincells of a worrying amount of drivers (who are drawn here in their swarms). People park on corners of main roads to stop and look for directions (don't mind the rest of us, we'll just go around you on that dangerous bend); people zoom around narrow country lanes, in the middle of the road at 60mph, usually in cars that take up nearly the whole width of the road, without even thinking that there might be other drivers using the same road; people park in places that are clearly labelled as no parking zones, purely because it's closer to walk to the beach (no thought given whatsoever as to what access they might be blocking).

Two main attitude problems are apparent here. 1: The stubborn belief that 'There is nothing wrong with my driving. I am never at fault.' 2: Complete absorption in the needs of the self and therefore not thinking about the consequences of actions or paying attention to what's happening around you. Are these attitudes more prominent in a certain age group? In my particular area, in which a large portion of the population are over 60 and wealthy, I'm sorry to say that from personal experience and observation, both of these attitudes do seem to be very prominent in drivers over a certain age (and over a certain level of wealth).

However, as I said, that is just a comment on my area alone and in other areas, in other countries, the situation might be completely different. What is a shame is that those doing the inconsiderate driving are giving others in their demographic a bad reputation. It also does make me a bit angry that some drivers would rather put their ego before other people's safety. Even if you have the most perfect co-ordination, lightning fast reflexes and have never, ever, had an accident, that does not mean you are immune to causing or being involved in one. Everyone and anyone can make a mistake.

I will get off my high horse now.

PriestessDreadful · June 2022

I've worked in the medical field for many years, in a few different specialties, where patients are often assessed for their ability to drive after a physical or brain trauma (in these cases, often an actual neuropsychological assessment may be involved, along with an actual off-road and on-road test with a specialised occupational therapist), and also after cardiac trauma.

In short, I would say that no, I wouldn't place a specific age for actually having a license, but I absolutely WOULD place an age limit at which drivers must start to submit to a few yearly tests covering the necessary physical and psychological factors to maintain their license. Perhaps 70+.

ignominiusrex · June 2022

WhatCobblers wrote: »

It's a difficult one because, as has been stated, many elderly people are fine and fully fit to drive whilst there are also others who clearly should not still be driving because they are putting themselves and others at risk.
In the UK, car insurance tends to be higher for young male drivers because, apparently according to statistics, most of the road accidents in the UK have involved this demographic. It does not seem fair to target one particular group in this way but because of the amount of times such accidents have happened, it has become so (even though there are probably many young males who are careful drivers). From my own personal experience, I have seen much more dangerous and inconsiderate driving behaviour from elderly drivers than from young males so am tempted to say not an all out ban, but maybe a retest at a certain age is a good idea.

I think the biggest problem with dangerous driving is not to do with age or health but people's attitudes. I have lost count of the amount of times I have been out driving and nearly been involved in a collision because someone else deemed it safe to overtake on the other side of the road, in front of approaching cars, or deemed it okay for to pull out in front of other drivers because of the self-centred belief that 'I can make it because my driving is perfect, therefore I don't need to take time to observe what's happening. I want do it so I'm going do it because I want to and I don't want to wait. Other drivers are the ones with the problem.' In fact, some drivers don't seem to even get to that first thought, all that seems to go through their heads is 'Don't wanna stop. Wanna go now! Wanna go fast! Mooooove!'
In my area it's even worse in the summer months because, for some bizarre reason, the act of going on holiday seems to temporarily numb the braincells of a worrying amount of drivers (who are drawn here in their swarms). People park on corners of main roads to stop and look for directions (don't mind the rest of us, we'll just go around you on that dangerous bend); people zoom around narrow country lanes, in the middle of the road at 60mph, usually in cars that take up nearly the whole width of the road, without even thinking that there might be other drivers using the same road; people park in places that are clearly labelled as no parking zones, purely because it's closer to walk to the beach (no thought given whatsoever as to what access they might be blocking).

Two main attitude problems are apparent here. 1: The stubborn belief that 'There is nothing wrong with my driving. I am never at fault.' 2: Complete absorption in the needs of the self and therefore not thinking about the consequences of actions or paying attention to what's happening around you. Are these attitudes more prominent in a certain age group? In my particular area, in which a large portion of the population are over 60 and wealthy, I'm sorry to say that from personal experience and observation, both of these attitudes do seem to be very prominent in drivers over a certain age (and over a certain level of wealth).

However, as I said, that is just a comment on my area alone and in other areas, in other countries, the situation might be completely different. What is a shame is that those doing the inconsiderate driving are giving others in their demographic a bad reputation. It also does make me a bit angry that some drivers would rather put their ego before other people's safety. Even if you have the most perfect co-ordination, lightning fast reflexes and have never, ever, had an accident, that does not mean you are immune to causing or being involved in one. Everyone and anyone can make a mistake.

I will get off my high horse now.

I couldn't help picturing Toad of Toad Hall from The Wind in the Willows. Have you read that book? Perfect image of privilege intersecting with the belief in one's own invulnerability, resulting on becoming a public menace.

WhatCobblers · June 2022

ignominiusrex wrote: »

WhatCobblers wrote: »

It's a difficult one because, as has been stated, many elderly people are fine and fully fit to drive whilst there are also others who clearly should not still be driving because they are putting themselves and others at risk.
In the UK, car insurance tends to be higher for young male drivers because, apparently according to statistics, most of the road accidents in the UK have involved this demographic. It does not seem fair to target one particular group in this way but because of the amount of times such accidents have happened, it has become so (even though there are probably many young males who are careful drivers). From my own personal experience, I have seen much more dangerous and inconsiderate driving behaviour from elderly drivers than from young males so am tempted to say not an all out ban, but maybe a retest at a certain age is a good idea.

I think the biggest problem with dangerous driving is not to do with age or health but people's attitudes. I have lost count of the amount of times I have been out driving and nearly been involved in a collision because someone else deemed it safe to overtake on the other side of the road, in front of approaching cars, or deemed it okay for to pull out in front of other drivers because of the self-centred belief that 'I can make it because my driving is perfect, therefore I don't need to take time to observe what's happening. I want do it so I'm going do it because I want to and I don't want to wait. Other drivers are the ones with the problem.' In fact, some drivers don't seem to even get to that first thought, all that seems to go through their heads is 'Don't wanna stop. Wanna go now! Wanna go fast! Mooooove!'
In my area it's even worse in the summer months because, for some bizarre reason, the act of going on holiday seems to temporarily numb the braincells of a worrying amount of drivers (who are drawn here in their swarms). People park on corners of main roads to stop and look for directions (don't mind the rest of us, we'll just go around you on that dangerous bend); people zoom around narrow country lanes, in the middle of the road at 60mph, usually in cars that take up nearly the whole width of the road, without even thinking that there might be other drivers using the same road; people park in places that are clearly labelled as no parking zones, purely because it's closer to walk to the beach (no thought given whatsoever as to what access they might be blocking).

Two main attitude problems are apparent here. 1: The stubborn belief that 'There is nothing wrong with my driving. I am never at fault.' 2: Complete absorption in the needs of the self and therefore not thinking about the consequences of actions or paying attention to what's happening around you. Are these attitudes more prominent in a certain age group? In my particular area, in which a large portion of the population are over 60 and wealthy, I'm sorry to say that from personal experience and observation, both of these attitudes do seem to be very prominent in drivers over a certain age (and over a certain level of wealth).

However, as I said, that is just a comment on my area alone and in other areas, in other countries, the situation might be completely different. What is a shame is that those doing the inconsiderate driving are giving others in their demographic a bad reputation. It also does make me a bit angry that some drivers would rather put their ego before other people's safety. Even if you have the most perfect co-ordination, lightning fast reflexes and have never, ever, had an accident, that does not mean you are immune to causing or being involved in one. Everyone and anyone can make a mistake.

I will get off my high horse now.

I couldn't help picturing Toad of Toad Hall from The Wind in the Willows. Have you read that book? Perfect image of privilege intersecting with the belief in one's own invulnerability, resulting on becoming a public menace.

😆 Yes we definitely get a few Mr Toads in my area. I think I read it years ago as a child but am slightly more familiar with the film. It's one I've been meaning to reread.

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If you could set the age for elders to be unable to drive, would you? There's a story behind this:

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