I don’t think kits themselves are affecting the other packs. They were made a fourth category so they were planned as an addition.
I just think designers for the other packs have been reassigned roles. The pandemic has caused a lot of shifts and all businesses have been affected. It could be game packs stay as the focal point, they’re less than an expansion but more than a stuff. A middle ground.
Kits are in the limelight due to their numbers, they’re easy to pump out and as most are fashion or furniture they can be put out with minimal issue.
My main issue with kits is that they appear as items left over from existing packs.
They have to assign people to work on them... If kits were not a thing then these people would have worked on other things...
Maxis have to assign people to work on different things so they don't sit and have nothing to do, so kits are affecting their game development just like other packs, base game updates etc. are affecting their game development in how they choose to spend their time, budget and staff.
And I unfortunately think that because kits are easier to make, and require less development, that affects in how they assign their staff and what they choose to focus on. I think we are seeing less development for the sims4 now, we are still seeing updates but they seem to take longer to make and it feels like not as much development could have gone into them as one might have wished for.
I also think because the game have kept going for so long now that they have a lot of technical debt (solutions which prioritize speed over stability) which makes it harder to develop for it, which makes kits an easier solution in how they can provide content.
They can keep this game going for many more years, but at the cost of development.
Hopefully that's development that is instead going towards making a sims 5, but who knows? I have run out of things to do in the sims4 and a few kits are not doing much for me.
I'm not so sure that kits are affecting the release of other DLC.
My theory is that they have moved a good portion of the different teams over to work on TS5 and they're running on a skeleton crew and kits are an easy way to still produce content to keep people interested without needed an entire team working on actual gameplay aspects.
Now if the question had been:
"Do you think the minimal amount of content we've been getting lately is due to TS4 starting to wind down?" then I would have voted YES!
ALL of this.
Sims 4 could never last forever. It's had already an incredibly long stay + a bumpy road and along with the pandemic hitting everyone hard ultimately is signalling the slow end of this individual cash cow.
Of course, they're not going to say that the game is slowly closing shop. They'll want to keep hype/sales going for as long as they can before the next new cash cow comes strutting in but it'll be with a skeleton team and content that's not too costly for them (meaning likely less gameplay stuff).
Kits are the result of the sims 4's chronic problem of stuff instead of actual gameplay (stuff packs were heavily frequent + criticized before kits) as well as one of the many problems of "live service games" in general I feel.
Not to mention there is a lot of long term development/coding going on into free things (neighborhood stories, pronouns if that's still going to be a thing, etc) instead of ones behind a paywall so that's something to consider.
They obviously do because why would you release a $20 Game Pack when you can just release 3 Kits, which require almost no development time and can be done by a VERY small group of developers
Yes but I don’t think that’s the only thing that is affecting the release of other DLC. I think when it comes to expansion and game packs Sims 5 is probably the thing that is slowing those down the most. Mainly I think that kits killed stuff packs. And to me that is affecting a DLC.
Kits are being used to buy them time, making up for slowed production during the pandemic. They're bulking items.
It's annoying though as the last few Stuff packs have been good. I don't mind having a few kits but really I want gameplay expanded and deepened and kits don't do that. I'm hoping that as we head in 2023 Kits will take more of a backseat. Or maybe they are slowing production of packs to improve quality.......MWS is evidence to the contrary though......who knows. I wish they were more candid with us.
My main issue with Sims 4 is the inconsistency in production. Early packs are weak and some packs are definitely better than others depending on which teams have worked on them. It means when they announce a new pack it could be a hit or miss, and therefore difficult to get excited about it.
I'm not so sure that kits are affecting the release of other DLC.
My theory is that they have moved a good portion of the different teams over to work on TS5 and they're running on a skeleton crew and kits are an easy way to still produce content to keep people interested without needed an entire team working on actual gameplay aspects.
Now if the question had been:
"Do you think the minimal amount of content we've been getting lately is due to TS4 starting to wind down?" then I would have voted YES!
Even with that kits don't have any gameplay so we're not getting that much.
I think they are, but I also think it's complicated.
I think they've moved a lot of people over to TS5 & combined with less staff & working from home, it's slowing things down (or at least had been). I think EA sees this as a solution rather than have a content drought but I don't think they meant for it to replace anything.
I like kits and think offering them is a good idea as it allows us to have items we can pick and choose from and allow us to have more in the game between packs. However, I feel the focus has been overwhelming on putting out kits and really miss getting stuff packs. It seems stuff packs disappeared with the appearance of kits at a point when the stuff packs were really being done well, i.e. Paranormal. Having just one expansion pack last year was disappointing as well, though I do understand Covid may have something to do with lowered production. I don't know enough about the work involved to know whether or not the different packs can all be done working at home. They have said that Sims 4 will continue for years yet, and there are many ideas out there on this forum alone from people wanting different types of packs/gameplay that could be done well in full expansion packs. I was really looking forward to more pack refreshes as well, more than a ton of kits.
Not really sure why he'd say this since it's pretty clear that it has. Even if the reduced number of EPs/GPs was down to other reasons, it's clear that the lack of stuff packs is down to kits. They went from constant stuff packs every 4 months to not a single one for 16 months
The thing about Maxis assigning people to work on a given pack is that they're going to assign people to do things *within their skillset*
For example, SimGuruBat and SimGuruSalo are concept artists. They're not going to be assigned to design gameplay or animation for, say, a blender or a toaster. Heck, since I think both of them also specialize in clothing, they may not even be assigned to design the look of said blenders or toasters.
I will agree that something has happened with the developers. They've lost a few (SimGuruHouts is one I saw on twitter) and with Maxis apparently doing a campaign to hire people, possibly enough to have some serious impact. Combine this with the very likely probability that they've moved a large portion of their production crew on to Sims 5, and they *are* still working on Game and Expansion Packs - remember, packs can take a year or more to develop, and that was before pandemic delays. (And yes, the pandemic is still causing delays in all industries.) And they're also working on base game improvements, and bugs, even if the later is not nearly fast enough for anyone's liking.
But while the scaled down crew of developers is working on all that, the artists and modelers aren't going to be assigned to work on gameplay, or animation. They're going to be assigned to work on clothes and objects - aka Kits. And no amount of "they should assign people differently" from the fanbase is going to magically give the artists and modelers the skills to make gameplay. They're not modders, and shouldn't be expected to have the same "Jack of all trades" skillset that many modders are blessed with.
Not really sure why he'd say this since it's pretty clear that it has. Even if the reduced number of EPs/GPs was down to other reasons, it's clear that the lack of stuff packs is down to kits. They went from constant stuff packs every 4 months to not a single one for 16 months
Stuff packs have been about a year or more a part after mfps. This isn't the first time there has been a huge gap between stuff packs. I remember when I first joined the community, a lot of ppl hated stuff packs and wanted them not to release them as often.
Infinity and beyond type yes. We haven't had a stuff pack in over a year, it's coming up on an Expansion Pack about a year. We've been kits after kits it's time to cool the kits off for awhile.
I don't think it's intentional, but when you can plug a kit into an empty gap in the calendar, you might not be in a hurry to schedule other packs in. That could be good if it means more time to check for bugs, but then there's MWS. Or it might be Sims 4 is winding down, but there's a need to keep it going just a bit longer.
No and I most definitely do not believe Frost would lie about it.
The pandemic may have been a factor or maybe not. Personally I like the kits and the being able to purchase in between my pension. LOL The store was to me basically the same idea. Buy a little or buy a lot. The choice is mine.
"Every child matters. If we fail our children, we are bound to fail our present, our future, faith, cultures, and civilizations as well."
I think the development has slowed down because a lot of the team moved on to other jobs or to TS5. MWS had 150 people working on it whereas Luxury Party Stuff credits over 300 people. That might sound like a ton of developers but keep in mind that around 50% of those people are on the art team and EA has big marketing teams. I think what happens with kits is that the art team comes up with concepts and then ships them out to small dev studios around the world, which is why we've only had one (poorly integrated) gameplay kit to date.
Regardless, the game is close to its breaking point and it's unrealistic to expect the game to last another couple of years AND have 4 expansions, stuff packs, game packs, etc. So Frost is technically correct; I think we're just getting less content for other reasons.
I believe Kits initially we're a result/symptom of the team doing less big Packs for whatever reason, not the reason why we don't get more decent sized packs.
What I do believe, though, is that the better kits sell, the more likely they are to go on with the current concept. And I'm afraid it works out just too well for them. There are enough players willing to spend their money on kits - especially when there's not much else to spend it on (Sims-wise).
So maybe that's how kits do indeed also slowly become a reason for less Packs in the future.
Now now EA, don't be stinking up our lovely lavender bath with your shopping fart. - My TS4 mods - Gallery ID: 83bienchen
For stuff packs, I have a simple theory. The first kit packs are codenamed SP20, SP21, and SP22. The latest stuff pack Paranormal is codenamed SP18. This means that only one more stuff pack can be done, and then that'll be the last stuff pack. They have to make it count it seems...
I know they've said multiple times kits won't affect release/development schedule. However, since introducing kits, we've had 2 gamepack (now 3), 1 expansion pack, and 1 stuff pack (I think, I can't remember if Paranormal stuff was released before or after kits were announced). Nearly every quarter has had at least one kit, to the point that we're at...what...11, 12 kits.
I think kits are easier to make and they've leaned on them a little too much. I wonder if this is a lasting effect from the last two years with Covid.
For stuff packs, I have a simple theory. The first kit packs are codenamed SP20, SP21, and SP22. The latest stuff pack Paranormal is codenamed SP18. This means that only one more stuff pack can be done, and then that'll be the last stuff pack. They have to make it count it seems...
I think that just means that they had 1 sp planned before those kits were released. They could still release more in the future.
I'm not sure. I know they use to have set teams that worked on specific packs. You had an EP team and a SP team, so I guess it just depends on how the teams are being used when creating them now. Did they hire a new team to make kit packs so the others can continue working on their assigned team packs or did they divert current employees to work on other projects limiting how many work on a pack?
Comments
I just think designers for the other packs have been reassigned roles. The pandemic has caused a lot of shifts and all businesses have been affected. It could be game packs stay as the focal point, they’re less than an expansion but more than a stuff. A middle ground.
Kits are in the limelight due to their numbers, they’re easy to pump out and as most are fashion or furniture they can be put out with minimal issue.
My main issue with kits is that they appear as items left over from existing packs.
Maxis have to assign people to work on different things so they don't sit and have nothing to do, so kits are affecting their game development just like other packs, base game updates etc. are affecting their game development in how they choose to spend their time, budget and staff.
And I unfortunately think that because kits are easier to make, and require less development, that affects in how they assign their staff and what they choose to focus on. I think we are seeing less development for the sims4 now, we are still seeing updates but they seem to take longer to make and it feels like not as much development could have gone into them as one might have wished for.
I also think because the game have kept going for so long now that they have a lot of technical debt (solutions which prioritize speed over stability) which makes it harder to develop for it, which makes kits an easier solution in how they can provide content.
They can keep this game going for many more years, but at the cost of development.
Hopefully that's development that is instead going towards making a sims 5, but who knows? I have run out of things to do in the sims4 and a few kits are not doing much for me.
ALL of this.
Sims 4 could never last forever. It's had already an incredibly long stay + a bumpy road and along with the pandemic hitting everyone hard ultimately is signalling the slow end of this individual cash cow.
Of course, they're not going to say that the game is slowly closing shop. They'll want to keep hype/sales going for as long as they can before the next new cash cow comes strutting in but it'll be with a skeleton team and content that's not too costly for them (meaning likely less gameplay stuff).
Kits are the result of the sims 4's chronic problem of stuff instead of actual gameplay (stuff packs were heavily frequent + criticized before kits) as well as one of the many problems of "live service games" in general I feel.
Not to mention there is a lot of long term development/coding going on into free things (neighborhood stories, pronouns if that's still going to be a thing, etc) instead of ones behind a paywall so that's something to consider.
Expansion Packs
Get Together -- (11 months) --> City Living -- (12 months) --> Cats and Dogs
Game Packs
Spa Day -- (11 months) --> Dine Out
Jungle Adventure -- (12 months) --> StrangerVille
Realm of Magic -- (12 months) --> Jurney to Batuu
Stuff Packs
My First Pet Stuff -- (17 months!) --> Moschino
It's annoying though as the last few Stuff packs have been good. I don't mind having a few kits but really I want gameplay expanded and deepened and kits don't do that. I'm hoping that as we head in 2023 Kits will take more of a backseat. Or maybe they are slowing production of packs to improve quality.......MWS is evidence to the contrary though......who knows. I wish they were more candid with us.
My main issue with Sims 4 is the inconsistency in production. Early packs are weak and some packs are definitely better than others depending on which teams have worked on them. It means when they announce a new pack it could be a hit or miss, and therefore difficult to get excited about it.
Even with that kits don't have any gameplay so we're not getting that much.
I think they've moved a lot of people over to TS5 & combined with less staff & working from home, it's slowing things down (or at least had been). I think EA sees this as a solution rather than have a content drought but I don't think they meant for it to replace anything.
For example, SimGuruBat and SimGuruSalo are concept artists. They're not going to be assigned to design gameplay or animation for, say, a blender or a toaster. Heck, since I think both of them also specialize in clothing, they may not even be assigned to design the look of said blenders or toasters.
I will agree that something has happened with the developers. They've lost a few (SimGuruHouts is one I saw on twitter) and with Maxis apparently doing a campaign to hire people, possibly enough to have some serious impact. Combine this with the very likely probability that they've moved a large portion of their production crew on to Sims 5, and they *are* still working on Game and Expansion Packs - remember, packs can take a year or more to develop, and that was before pandemic delays. (And yes, the pandemic is still causing delays in all industries.) And they're also working on base game improvements, and bugs, even if the later is not nearly fast enough for anyone's liking.
But while the scaled down crew of developers is working on all that, the artists and modelers aren't going to be assigned to work on gameplay, or animation. They're going to be assigned to work on clothes and objects - aka Kits. And no amount of "they should assign people differently" from the fanbase is going to magically give the artists and modelers the skills to make gameplay. They're not modders, and shouldn't be expected to have the same "Jack of all trades" skillset that many modders are blessed with.
Stuff packs have been about a year or more a part after mfps. This isn't the first time there has been a huge gap between stuff packs. I remember when I first joined the community, a lot of ppl hated stuff packs and wanted them not to release them as often.
The pandemic may have been a factor or maybe not. Personally I like the kits and the being able to purchase in between my pension. LOL The store was to me basically the same idea. Buy a little or buy a lot. The choice is mine.
AHQ Champion
I think the development has slowed down because a lot of the team moved on to other jobs or to TS5. MWS had 150 people working on it whereas Luxury Party Stuff credits over 300 people. That might sound like a ton of developers but keep in mind that around 50% of those people are on the art team and EA has big marketing teams. I think what happens with kits is that the art team comes up with concepts and then ships them out to small dev studios around the world, which is why we've only had one (poorly integrated) gameplay kit to date.
Regardless, the game is close to its breaking point and it's unrealistic to expect the game to last another couple of years AND have 4 expansions, stuff packs, game packs, etc. So Frost is technically correct; I think we're just getting less content for other reasons.
What I do believe, though, is that the better kits sell, the more likely they are to go on with the current concept. And I'm afraid it works out just too well for them. There are enough players willing to spend their money on kits - especially when there's not much else to spend it on (Sims-wise).
So maybe that's how kits do indeed also slowly become a reason for less Packs in the future.
For stuff packs, I have a simple theory. The first kit packs are codenamed SP20, SP21, and SP22. The latest stuff pack Paranormal is codenamed SP18. This means that only one more stuff pack can be done, and then that'll be the last stuff pack. They have to make it count it seems...
I think kits are easier to make and they've leaned on them a little too much. I wonder if this is a lasting effect from the last two years with Covid.
I think that just means that they had 1 sp planned before those kits were released. They could still release more in the future.