I don't think TS4 is lacking in certain areas, but in my personal opinion TS4 fails a lot in that area.
On that, I am in total agreement. Though I also find it slightly unfair that people who like to list "exactly what is missing" in TS4 completely fail to mention those gameplay aspects, objects and skills which it has that other games in the franchise do not.
Even so, I do not disagree with the overall sentiment that it is lacking in that area, especially when compared to TS2, without mods/cc.
The premise of this particular thread though, seems to be that is the only aspect of the games that matters at all...and that YouTubers/Streamers who don't see that are somehow "ignorant". And that premise is just wrong, on so many levels.
Face it, if we all thought TS2 or TS3 was "better" than none of us would even be playing TS4. Anyone who is playing TS4 and not the others clearly likes it better, regardless of what kind of disappointments they may have with it.
Personally, I still play all 3. But I do play TS4 more, which is honestly the only reason I even know that I like it better.
I don't think TS4 is lacking in certain areas, but in my personal opinion TS4 fails a lot in that area.
On that, I am in total agreement. Though I also find it slightly unfair that people who like to list "exactly what is missing" in TS4 completely fail to mention those gameplay aspects, objects and skills which it has that other games in the franchise do not.
Even so, I do not disagree with the overall sentiment that it is lacking in that area, especially when compared to TS2, without mods/cc.
The premise of this particular thread though, seems to be that is the only aspect of the games that matters at all...and that YouTubers/Streamers who don't see that are somehow "ignorant". And that premise is just wrong, on so many levels.
Face it, if we all thought TS2 or TS3 was "better" than none of us would even be playing TS4. Anyone who is playing TS4 and not the others clearly likes it better, regardless of what kind of disappointments they may have with it.
Personally, I still play all 3. But I do play TS4 more, which is honestly the only reason I even know that I like it better.
I will have to disagree that everyone playing TS4 actually likes it better. Some people play TS4 to remain relevant to the Simming community. Such as modders who actually prefer TS3 but mod and play TS4 because they earn some money by staying current with TS4. Some people like that are a big fish in a smaller pond. They may not have had a bigger impact and or influence on others in TS3 if they were not playing TS4. Some people like how TS4 caused many to ride to fame on the coattails of the game. They are very important now to the Simming community where as they were not as known in TS2 or TS3. Fifteen minutes of fame can be a huge motivator to some. Some people buy everything because that's just what they do. They don't really actually play any of it. Go figure. Some people buy new content because they want to be in the crowd of cool kids who own every piece of DLC. They want to be part of the conversation. Then there are some of us who decide that isn't the pack I would want and or no, it's too buggy not going to spend money on that. There are dozens of reasons why people play TS4 and sometimes it's not because they love this game but other reasons.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I agree with @haneul though, we all like different things in different ways. I never expected the sims 4 to be the same game as sims 3 or 2 or 1. I prefer some of the systems from sims 4 over those of sims 3 and vice versa.
I recently played sims 2 for a bit ( I didn’t “grow up” with sims, but that doesn’t make me less of a simmer) and there are a bunch of really great features in that iteration that I’d love to see in Sims 4, however it doesn’t necessarily mean TS2 is “better” than the rest because the majority seems to think that way. A lot of that is also nostalgia tugging at your dear dear hearts.
We all have different preferences for stuff. Some see improvements, others see “lack of”. Oh well. 😅
I think there’s this assumption that everyone who plays this game hates or only tolerates it, and prefers the holy grail of Sims 2. That may be true for some players, but I don’t think it’s universal. I started playing with S3, but have S2-4 on my computer. I have a choice of which game I play, and I’m playing S4. There are pros and cons to all of them. Each game has its strengths and weaknesses. I’m always amazed at people who profess to hate this game and then expend huge amounts of energy on these boards or YouTube telling everyone how much they hate it, and how they should hate it too. If I disliked a game that much, I’d just go back to one I liked better and wait to see if S5 is more to my liking. I would not be all over YouTube and social media trashing it. Let those who do like it enjoy their game.
I agree with both of you, well said!
I have same thoughts about these topics.
"Where words fail, music speaks" ~ Hans Christian Andersen ♥*♥*♥ My Gallery ID: Aaleyn
I don't think TS4 is lacking in certain areas, but in my personal opinion TS4 fails a lot in that area.
On that, I am in total agreement. Though I also find it slightly unfair that people who like to list "exactly what is missing" in TS4 completely fail to mention those gameplay aspects, objects and skills which it has that other games in the franchise do not.
Even so, I do not disagree with the overall sentiment that it is lacking in that area, especially when compared to TS2, without mods/cc.
The premise of this particular thread though, seems to be that is the only aspect of the games that matters at all...and that YouTubers/Streamers who don't see that are somehow "ignorant". And that premise is just wrong, on so many levels.
Face it, if we all thought TS2 or TS3 was "better" than none of us would even be playing TS4. Anyone who is playing TS4 and not the others clearly likes it better, regardless of what kind of disappointments they may have with it.
Personally, I still play all 3. But I do play TS4 more, which is honestly the only reason I even know that I like it better.
I will have to disagree that everyone playing TS4 actually likes it better. Some people play TS4 to remain relevant to the Simming community. Such as modders who actually prefer TS3 but mod and play TS4 because they earn some money by staying current with TS4. Some people like that are a big fish in a smaller pond. They may not have had a bigger impact and or influence on others in TS3 if they were not playing TS4. Some people like how TS4 caused many to ride to fame on the coattails of the game. They are very important now to the Simming community where as they were not as known in TS2 or TS3. Fifteen minutes of fame can be a huge motivator to some. Some people buy everything because that's just what they do. They don't really actually play any of it. Go figure. Some people buy new content because they want to be in the crowd of cool kids who own every piece of DLC. They want to be part of the conversation. Then there are some of us who decide that isn't the pack I would want and or no, it's too buggy not going to spend money on that. There are dozens of reasons why people play TS4 and sometimes it's not because they love this game but other reasons.
They're pretty...essential...to Sims functioning as a game. If you don't care about what was referenced, like lack of smart AI (huge!) then you just care about Sims 4 as a glorified movie-making tool, as someone said on Twitter.
Essentially, that is the biggest difference with TS4. In comparison to previous games, TS4 doesn't have nearly as much simulation under the hood. That is a fact. It's a result of a game that was never meant to be a simulation. The original concept was to be an online multiplayer game similar to Second Life or something. In those types of games, the personality and behaviors are supplied by the player, not the code. As a result, the Sims in TS4 are no longer their own little people. They're what the player makes them out to be by pushing behaviors and imagining the outcomes that they're looking for.
The thing that has been hardest for me is to realize that a lot of people prefer it that way. The best that the rest of us can do is to stick with the older games and hope for better times in the future. Perhaps, a future in which every bit of personality and conflict hasn't been 'nerfed', as some would say.
I've been beating the simulation drum in hopes that the franchise will get back to its roots in the next iteration. Still, I don't hold much hope. I don't believe that The Sims will ever be about simulation again. Convincing simulation is difficult. Creating CAS/Build assets and a world for people to play in requires a lot less effort. Hence, why so many games in the industry have gone that route. I'm afraid that we may be a dying breed. Finding what we're looking for in the future may require looking elsewhere. Because this franchise has moved on. Which is fine. Yet, they're still calling it The Sims. So, go figure.
They're pretty...essential...to Sims functioning as a game. If you don't care about what was referenced, like lack of smart AI (huge!) then you just care about Sims 4 as a glorified movie-making tool, as someone said on Twitter.
Essentially, that is the biggest difference with TS4. In comparison to previous games, TS4 doesn't have nearly as much simulation under the hood. That is a fact. It's a result of a game that was never meant to be a simulation. The original concept was to be an online multiplayer game similar to Second Life or something. In those types of games, the personality and behaviors are supplied by the player, not the code. As a result, the Sims in TS4 are no longer their own little people. They're what the player makes them out to be by pushing behaviors and imagining the outcomes that they're looking for.
The thing that has been hardest for me is to realize that a lot of people prefer it that way. The best that the rest of us can do is to stick with the older games and hope for better times in the future. Perhaps, a future in which every bit of personality and conflict hasn't been 'nerfed', as some would say.
I've been beating the simulation drum in hopes that the franchise will get back to its roots in the next iteration. Still, I don't hold much hope. I don't believe that The Sims will ever be about simulation again. Convincing simulation is difficult. Creating CAS/Build assets and a world for people to play in requires a lot less effort. Hence, why so many games in the industry have gone that route. I'm afraid that we may be a dying breed. Finding what we're looking for in the future may require looking elsewhere. Because this franchise has moved on. Which is fine. Yet, they're still calling it The Sims. So, go figure.
Very well articulated. I'm in this camp that you describe...Sims 4 being fundamentally different, and the difficulty of being a fan while knowing that a lot of newer players gravitate towards or even prefer this heavily sandboxy, do-anything-you-want-with-no-consequences type of engine
But as a YouTuber I don't see the point of crying and moaning constantly about how bad ts4 is to older games. Leave that to twitter. Otherwise I'll just change the channel because it's like okkkkkaaayy... so you don't like it? Go play ts3?
Voicing a few complaints or lacking things you'd like to see is fine. But after it seems like your dedicating your life to trashing a video game it starts to become....weird...o.O
I agree 100% with this. I'm old school af and I've played all the sims games, and I never understood why you'd devote all your time and energy to thrashing a game. I'm all for comparing them since there are plenty of things from the earlier sims games I'd like in ts4, but I think that can be viewed as constructive criticism and user feedback, rather than a one-(wo)man boycott.
While ts4 isn't the greatest gameplay-wise, it's definitely the prettiest and most pleasant to watch. I think nowadays it's difficult to look past "bad graphics" (compared to the norm, I mean), at least it's like that for me. I find it hard to return to the other games because of it, as I think the sims in the previous games look like bags and bricks. And being a cas nerd, that's a deal-breaker for me.
They are getting paid. They aren’t going to bash the game that brings them money, and that’s fair. I’m sure some of them genuinely like it despite everything.
I think most of them are very aware, but it's what's popular, I guess. It gets the most views, the graphics are more acceptable for the younger players, and variety of CC.
Comments
On that, I am in total agreement. Though I also find it slightly unfair that people who like to list "exactly what is missing" in TS4 completely fail to mention those gameplay aspects, objects and skills which it has that other games in the franchise do not.
Even so, I do not disagree with the overall sentiment that it is lacking in that area, especially when compared to TS2, without mods/cc.
The premise of this particular thread though, seems to be that is the only aspect of the games that matters at all...and that YouTubers/Streamers who don't see that are somehow "ignorant". And that premise is just wrong, on so many levels.
Face it, if we all thought TS2 or TS3 was "better" than none of us would even be playing TS4. Anyone who is playing TS4 and not the others clearly likes it better, regardless of what kind of disappointments they may have with it.
Personally, I still play all 3. But I do play TS4 more, which is honestly the only reason I even know that I like it better.
The Winters family Tree --- My Mods
I will have to disagree that everyone playing TS4 actually likes it better. Some people play TS4 to remain relevant to the Simming community. Such as modders who actually prefer TS3 but mod and play TS4 because they earn some money by staying current with TS4. Some people like that are a big fish in a smaller pond. They may not have had a bigger impact and or influence on others in TS3 if they were not playing TS4. Some people like how TS4 caused many to ride to fame on the coattails of the game. They are very important now to the Simming community where as they were not as known in TS2 or TS3. Fifteen minutes of fame can be a huge motivator to some. Some people buy everything because that's just what they do. They don't really actually play any of it. Go figure. Some people buy new content because they want to be in the crowd of cool kids who own every piece of DLC. They want to be part of the conversation. Then there are some of us who decide that isn't the pack I would want and or no, it's too buggy not going to spend money on that. There are dozens of reasons why people play TS4 and sometimes it's not because they love this game but other reasons.
I agree with both of you, well said!
I have same thoughts about these topics.
This. All this. Yes.
Essentially, that is the biggest difference with TS4. In comparison to previous games, TS4 doesn't have nearly as much simulation under the hood. That is a fact. It's a result of a game that was never meant to be a simulation. The original concept was to be an online multiplayer game similar to Second Life or something. In those types of games, the personality and behaviors are supplied by the player, not the code. As a result, the Sims in TS4 are no longer their own little people. They're what the player makes them out to be by pushing behaviors and imagining the outcomes that they're looking for.
The thing that has been hardest for me is to realize that a lot of people prefer it that way. The best that the rest of us can do is to stick with the older games and hope for better times in the future. Perhaps, a future in which every bit of personality and conflict hasn't been 'nerfed', as some would say.
I've been beating the simulation drum in hopes that the franchise will get back to its roots in the next iteration. Still, I don't hold much hope. I don't believe that The Sims will ever be about simulation again. Convincing simulation is difficult. Creating CAS/Build assets and a world for people to play in requires a lot less effort. Hence, why so many games in the industry have gone that route. I'm afraid that we may be a dying breed. Finding what we're looking for in the future may require looking elsewhere. Because this franchise has moved on. Which is fine. Yet, they're still calling it The Sims. So, go figure.
Very well articulated. I'm in this camp that you describe...Sims 4 being fundamentally different, and the difficulty of being a fan while knowing that a lot of newer players gravitate towards or even prefer this heavily sandboxy, do-anything-you-want-with-no-consequences type of engine
I agree 100% with this. I'm old school af and I've played all the sims games, and I never understood why you'd devote all your time and energy to thrashing a game. I'm all for comparing them since there are plenty of things from the earlier sims games I'd like in ts4, but I think that can be viewed as constructive criticism and user feedback, rather than a one-(wo)man boycott.
While ts4 isn't the greatest gameplay-wise, it's definitely the prettiest and most pleasant to watch. I think nowadays it's difficult to look past "bad graphics" (compared to the norm, I mean), at least it's like that for me. I find it hard to return to the other games because of it, as I think the sims in the previous games look like bags and bricks. And being a cas nerd, that's a deal-breaker for me.