As much as I want to say something, I have a suspicion that I don't know nearly enough about the LGBT community or the political situation between Russia and America to make any judgements either for or against EA's decision.
I feel like they should have opened up a discussion about this with the Russian/Eastern Europe fans before making a move. I know it's not practical and there will never be a unanimous decision, but since they're the ones most affected by it, thet should have been consulted. We have transparency NOW, but I'm sure they would have appreciated being part of the conversation.
The Sims 4 hasn't introduced a new musical instrument since 2017
Instead of throwing all this fury and courage against EA, the Russian community could perhaps with the same energy address their own government to make things better for lgbt people?
Just thinking that instead of offering to throw even more money at EA by purchasing the pack several times to give it to Russian players, maybe people should consider a boycott of the pack until Russian players are able to buy it themselves. Money talks and if you're just going to throw even more money at them, it tells them they did the right thing (when they didn't).
Instead of throwing all this fury and courage against EA, the Russian community could perhaps with the same energy address their own government to make things better for lgbt people?
You're assuming they aren't? I think that is very privileged way of looking at the world. Maybe stop thinking everyone lives in the same pretty bubble and try to realize what reality is for people in other places in the world.
Allons-y!
---> Afterlife Game Pack Idea - improved ghosts, cemeteries and funerals, psychics, new skills, new career and more! <---
Just thinking that instead of offering to throw even more money at EA by purchasing the pack several times to give it to Russian players, maybe people should consider a boycott of the pack until Russian players are able to buy it themselves. Money talks and if you're just going to throw even more money at them, it tells them they did the right thing (when they didn't).
Instead of throwing all this fury and courage against EA, the Russian community could perhaps with the same energy address their own government to make things better for lgbt people?
You're assuming they aren't? I think that is very privileged way of looking at the world. Maybe stop thinking everyone lives in the same pretty bubble and try to realize what reality is for people in other places in the world.
Thank you, it's very disgusting blaming Russian citizens for this.This is the sims teams decision and it's there fault.They are the ones keeping the pack from Russia.
Just thinking that instead of offering to throw even more money at EA by purchasing the pack several times to give it to Russian players, maybe people should consider a boycott of the pack until Russian players are able to buy it themselves. Money talks and if you're just going to throw even more money at them, it tells them they did the right thing (when they didn't).
Instead of throwing all this fury and courage against EA, the Russian community could perhaps with the same energy address their own government to make things better for lgbt people?
You're assuming they aren't? I think that is very privileged way of looking at the world. Maybe stop thinking everyone lives in the same pretty bubble and try to realize what reality is for people in other places in the world.
Sorry, but what is the essence of all this then? A dictatorship is a dictatorship is a dicratorship. Citizens can do nothing, foreigners can do nothing, companies can do nothing. Let's all be quiet so that business booms and everyone can buy escapist games instead of having a life.
I really wish EA would change their decision. But that they stand up against this awful "law" is a noble cause. Appeasement has its limits - something we Germans have learned in the most terrible way in our own history.
Just thinking that instead of offering to throw even more money at EA by purchasing the pack several times to give it to Russian players, maybe people should consider a boycott of the pack until Russian players are able to buy it themselves. Money talks and if you're just going to throw even more money at them, it tells them they did the right thing (when they didn't).
Instead of throwing all this fury and courage against EA, the Russian community could perhaps with the same energy address their own government to make things better for lgbt people?
You're assuming they aren't? I think that is very privileged way of looking at the world. Maybe stop thinking everyone lives in the same pretty bubble and try to realize what reality is for people in other places in the world.
Sorry, but was is the essence of all this then? A dictatorship is a dictatorship is a dicratorship. Citizens can do nothing, foreigners can do nothing, companies can do nothing. Let's all be quiet so that business booms and everyone can buy escapist games instead of having a life.
I really wish EA would change their decision. But that they stand up against this awful "law" is a noble cause. Appeasement has its limits - something we Germans have learned in the most terrible way in our own history.
I believe releasing a pro gay rights game is WAY more impactful than doing a publicity stunt like this. I can't for the life of me understand what EA was thinking. Taking a stand can be done in many different ways and this isn't it.
Allons-y!
---> Afterlife Game Pack Idea - improved ghosts, cemeteries and funerals, psychics, new skills, new career and more! <---
If EA really cared about LBGT minorities in countries like Russia where packs like this would not make it to the marketplace, they should have just released it as an update for all, lol.
That way that could have still allow everyone to tell whatever stories they want without much interference from the government or the homophobic law.
But instead of being generous, EA chose $$$ and cut the poor Russian LGBT people out of the picture. Real solidarity right there, EA.
@Kelvin Yeah, if EA really cared so much about taking a stand, they'd just release it as a gift for the Russian speaking simmers - I don't think anybody would mind to pay for it and that they get it for free - I mean, at least they would get to play AND that would DEFINITELY be taking a stand.
Allons-y!
---> Afterlife Game Pack Idea - improved ghosts, cemeteries and funerals, psychics, new skills, new career and more! <---
Just thinking that instead of offering to throw even more money at EA by purchasing the pack several times to give it to Russian players, maybe people should consider a boycott of the pack until Russian players are able to buy it themselves. Money talks and if you're just going to throw even more money at them, it tells them they did the right thing (when they didn't).
Instead of throwing all this fury and courage against EA, the Russian community could perhaps with the same energy address their own government to make things better for lgbt people?
Oh I am sorry, so you have to be a political activist in order to be allowed to play this game or what? Regardless of their sexualities, opinions and relations with their government, Russian players are /were paying costumers who spent tons of money on this game just like everybody else and should be treated accordingly by the company who made money on them. It is not EA's place to police their customer's opinions and discriminate against them on the basis of their nationality and it is surely not yours either. As you said: you learned it the hard way.
Just thinking that instead of offering to throw even more money at EA by purchasing the pack several times to give it to Russian players, maybe people should consider a boycott of the pack until Russian players are able to buy it themselves. Money talks and if you're just going to throw even more money at them, it tells them they did the right thing (when they didn't).
Instead of throwing all this fury and courage against EA, the Russian community could perhaps with the same energy address their own government to make things better for lgbt people?
Oh I am sorry, so you have to be a political activist in order to be allowed to play this game or what? Regardless of their sexualities, opinions and relations with their government, Russian players are /were paying costumers who spent tons of money on this game just like everybody else and should be treated accordingly by the company who made money on them. It is not EA's place to police their customer's opinions and discriminate against them on the basis of their nationality and it is surely not yours either. As you said: you learned it the hard way.
Ok, this kind of moral in fact ends all discussions about human rights.
Kelvin Yeah, if EA really cared so much about taking a stand, they'd just release it as a gift for the Russian speaking simmers - I don't think anybody would mind to pay for it and that they get it for free - I mean, at least they would get to play AND that would DEFINITELY be taking a stand.
Yeah, and hopefully more people could soon tell that the letter's full of hypocrisy and corporate greed 😄
EA doesn't give a flying plumbob about the oppressive reality in which Russian LGBT+ people are experiencing on a daily basis, all they wanted was an opportunity to scapegoat the homophobic law in Russia in order to conveniently divert the angst and dissatisfaction that's long accumulated within the sims community, and hopefully boosting the sales of this mediocre pack exploiting a holier-than-thou excuse of "solidarity".
@Kelvin Yeah, if EA really cared so much about taking a stand, they'd just release it as a gift for the Russian speaking simmers - I don't think anybody would mind to pay for it and that they get it for free - I mean, at least they would get to play AND that would DEFINITELY be taking a stand.
I agree with this. By not selling it in those countries, they're not getting the sales from it anyway, so my as well just release region locked codes or something for those countries. I have the freedom of living in the US and being able to enjoy the pack if I wanted, it's not Russian simmers fault their laws are not as accepting as ours.
Just thinking that instead of offering to throw even more money at EA by purchasing the pack several times to give it to Russian players, maybe people should consider a boycott of the pack until Russian players are able to buy it themselves. Money talks and if you're just going to throw even more money at them, it tells them they did the right thing (when they didn't).
Instead of throwing all this fury and courage against EA, the Russian community could perhaps with the same energy address their own government to make things better for lgbt people?
You're assuming they aren't? I think that is very privileged way of looking at the world. Maybe stop thinking everyone lives in the same pretty bubble and try to realize what reality is for people in other places in the world.
Sorry, but what is the essence of all this then? A dictatorship is a dictatorship is a dicratorship. Citizens can do nothing, foreigners can do nothing, companies can do nothing. Let's all be quiet so that business booms and everyone can buy escapist games instead of having a life.
I really wish EA would change their decision. But that they stand up against this awful "law" is a noble cause. Appeasement has its limits - something we Germans have learned in the most terrible way in our own history.
Nope, it was not noble.None of this is Nobel.By doing this stunt they excluding the whole Russia fanbase including lgbt plus individuals in that country.This is not sticking it to anyone.Especialy since the game is about the players sims not there.
Just thinking that instead of offering to throw even more money at EA by purchasing the pack several times to give it to Russian players, maybe people should consider a boycott of the pack until Russian players are able to buy it themselves. Money talks and if you're just going to throw even more money at them, it tells them they did the right thing (when they didn't).
Instead of throwing all this fury and courage against EA, the Russian community could perhaps with the same energy address their own government to make things better for lgbt people?
You're assuming they aren't? I think that is very privileged way of looking at the world. Maybe stop thinking everyone lives in the same pretty bubble and try to realize what reality is for people in other places in the world.
Sorry, but what is the essence of all this then? A dictatorship is a dictatorship is a dicratorship. Citizens can do nothing, foreigners can do nothing, companies can do nothing. Let's all be quiet so that business booms and everyone can buy escapist games instead of having a life.
I really wish EA would change their decision. But that they stand up against this awful "law" is a noble cause. Appeasement has its limits - something we Germans have learned in the most terrible way in our own history.
Several russian simmers have shared their stories regarding what has happened, if you haven't I suggest you read their posts.
And they also really did not need this considering what is happening in the world right now.
Video games should offer escapism and relief for people.
Ok, this kind of moral in fact ends all discussions about human rights.
No it doesn't. These discussions should take place in the right places and with the right organizations, and EA is not one then. Customer rights though should be EA's concern indeed and they just chose to violate them as their product was not banned or restricted by the government, they just decided not to provide it to certain countries all by themselves.
I have question how did any of this help lgqbt people ?Did help Russia change the laws.Did made people more understanding of LGBT in States.It did not.
Ok, this kind of moral in fact ends all discussions about human rights.
No it doesn't. These discussions should take place in the right places and with the right organizations, and EA is not one then. Customer rights though should be EA's concern indeed and they just chose to violate them as their product was not banned or restricted by the government, they just decided not to provide it to certain countries all by themselves.
I likes cospiracy, but in this time seem I have reason
The conflict USA-Russia, and EA taken this pack and the "possible " (but imaginary) conflict with anti-propaganda law, to take part at this geopolitical discussion
Idk, I feel like the whole debate is kind of silly? In that it assumes too much benevolence on the part of EA, and uniform enforcement of Russian law on the part of the Russian gov't.
EA is a publicly-traded, multi-billion dollar company. They're not going to shut themselves out of MILLIONS of dollars in sales unless there's a cost-effective reason for them to do so. A moral stance--by itself--is not cost-effective. In my opinion what's more likely is that EA's legal and financial departments ran the numbers and figures and determined the company incurred more of a financial risk by releasing the game in Russia (as is, OR with adjustments to bring it further into compliance w/ Russian law) than they stood to lose in sales. The fact that the legal barriers in this case are due to an anti-LGBT stance is perfect for EA because that gives them an opportunity to publicly take the moral stance on an issue that, behind closed doors, was made for far more cynical reasons.
On the part of the Russian government, I think people claiming that all the Sims team would have to do to get the game past the censors is stick an '18+' label on the game and/or alter the game trailer and promotional materials are being a little naive about laws and their application. For one thing, the Russian government has no obligation or incentive to apply this law in the same way, across the board. As someone already mentioned, FIFA '17 was almost banned in Russia for displaying the LGBT flag in promotional materials, yet there was no problem with, say, Dream Home Decorator, which featured a gay couple in one of its promotional scenes. That is to say, the Russian government decides what counts and what doesn't count. There's little EA, a foreign company, can do to fight it.
In fact, since EA has run afoul of this particular law in the past, it isn't far-fetched to raise the issue of EA facing sanctions from the Russian government--especially since there's already tensions between the US and Russia over Ukraine potentially joining NATO.
Basically, IMO, there's no way EA made this decision based solely on making a moral stance. They love money too much to choose to lose this much in sales, unless they stood to lose even more $$ by selling the game in the Russian market.
Idk, I feel like the whole debate is kind of silly? In that it assumes too much benevolence on the part of EA, and uniform enforcement of Russian law on the part of the Russian gov't.
EA is a publicly-traded, multi-billion dollar company. They're not going to shut themselves out of MILLIONS of dollars in sales unless there's a cost-effective reason for them to do so. A moral stance--by itself--is not cost-effective. In my opinion what's more likely is that EA's legal and financial departments ran the numbers and figures and determined the company incurred more of a financial risk by releasing the game in Russia (as is, OR with adjustments to bring it further into compliance w/ Russian law) than they stood to lose in sales. The fact that the legal barriers in this case are due to an anti-LGBT stance is perfect for EA because that gives them an opportunity to publicly take the moral stance on an issue that, behind closed doors, was made for far more cynical reasons.
On the part of the Russian government, I think people claiming that all the Sims team would have to do to get the game past the censors is stick an '18+' label on the game and/or alter the game trailer and promotional materials are being a little naive about laws and their application. For one thing, the Russian government has no obligation or incentive to apply this law in the same way, across the board. As someone already mentioned, FIFA '17 was almost banned in Russia for displaying the LGBT flag in promotional materials, yet there was no problem with, say, Dream Home Decorator, which featured a gay couple in one of its promotional scenes. That is to say, the Russian government decides what counts and what doesn't count. There's little EA, a foreign company, can do to fight it.
In fact, since EA has run afoul of this particular law in the past, it isn't far-fetched to raise the issue of EA facing sanctions from the Russian government--especially since there's already tensions between the US and Russia over Ukraine potentially joining NATO.
Basically, IMO, there's no way EA made this decision based solely on making a moral stance. They love money too much to choose to lose this much in sales, unless they stood to lose even more $$ by selling the game in the Russian market.
Fifa17 was a game for all ages (including minors) while sims 4 is 18+ in Russia. The law applies to showing "promoting LGBT content" to minors hence the problem. With the 18+ age rating Sims 4 doesn't deal with that because in Russia, Sims 4 is only for adults.
Now maybe there were other concerns/other policies at play but as far as I understand legally they should be covered? On twitter, various russian simmers have better explained it.
...
Basically, IMO, there's no way EA made this decision based solely on making a moral stance. They love money too much to choose to lose this much in sales, unless they stood to lose even more $$ by selling the game in the Russian market.
Idk, it still seems very odd how they decided to not list sims 2 for sale on origin. People are more than willing to buy it.
Well, unless they are too self-conscious and know that no one's going to touch their garbage packs when everyone's fully dedicated to enjoying sims 2. In that case, they need to keep it as far away from the market to keep sims 4 sales figure alive.
@Zeldaboy180 I’m sorry but it’s the Russian simmers who we need to listen to on this matter both the non and lgbt community as both are affected by this decision. I’m getting tired of seeing non Russian simmers commenting on this issue. I have Russian speaking family who have been affected by this decision.
It's not just a Russian issue though. If you censor the cover art, it affects ALL LGBT. So no, not just Russians.
If you can release the pack without changing the cover art then absolutely do it, I'm seeing mixed answers from people so I don't know what to believe anymore.
But at my principal, changing the cover art to release it in Russia is not okay.
ok, I never comment on these forums but this I feel quite strongly about so here goes...
I'm a 50 year old woman, I have been playing Sims since the release day of Sims 1 in 2000. I guess you could say I'm a veteran of this game and have bought every single expansion, stuff pack, almost all store items (sims 3) and every game pack and kit in Sims 4. I have spend a great deal of money on this game over the past 22 years as I love it so much. However, over the past year or so I've debated about whether I will ever go on to a Sims 5 if there is ever going to be one. The reason being that I strongly object to any form of politics or opinions being forced on me in my game.
Let me make something clear, in my many many saves files over various sims games I have multiple same sex families, some worlds with only male female marriages and some with more same sex marriages. Heck I even had one save file where everything was rainbow coloured and people fell in love with who they wanted and that was before Pride came along!
I am a strong believer in people falling in love with the person and not their sex.
HOWEVER, making a decision to exclude an entire country from buying this game is very clearly to me a political statement based on the views of the company in my view and games should NOT be political. As a veteran gamer over the years I've seen many games make changes to front covers so they can still sell the game in countries that might have different views on things. Why can they not do that in this case? Its simply because they WANT to be seen to be making a point on the issue.
Change the front cover, let Russian people buy the game and then let THEM decide what they do within their own save file.
Please stop making statements with this game, let your customers decide how they want to play and PLEASE stop being political, most of us play these games for fun and to make our sometimes dreary lives a bit more colourful and fun. If I wanted to be involved in politics and debate I would watch the news!
OK, I feel better now, happy simming everyone! xxx
Human rights are not political. My love is not political. Just because others view it as propaganda does not make it political.
Comments
I can't say this is surprising and I can say don't deserve the backlash.
The Sims 4 hasn't introduced a new musical instrument since 2017
[CM - Edited to remove moderated quote]
Thank you, it's very disgusting blaming Russian citizens for this.This is the sims teams decision and it's there fault.They are the ones keeping the pack from Russia.
Sorry, but what is the essence of all this then? A dictatorship is a dictatorship is a dicratorship. Citizens can do nothing, foreigners can do nothing, companies can do nothing. Let's all be quiet so that business booms and everyone can buy escapist games instead of having a life.
I really wish EA would change their decision. But that they stand up against this awful "law" is a noble cause. Appeasement has its limits - something we Germans have learned in the most terrible way in our own history.
That way that could have still allow everyone to tell whatever stories they want without much interference from the government or the homophobic law.
But instead of being generous, EA chose $$$ and cut the poor Russian LGBT people out of the picture. Real solidarity right there, EA.
Well done.
._.
Oh I am sorry, so you have to be a political activist in order to be allowed to play this game or what? Regardless of their sexualities, opinions and relations with their government, Russian players are /were paying costumers who spent tons of money on this game just like everybody else and should be treated accordingly by the company who made money on them. It is not EA's place to police their customer's opinions and discriminate against them on the basis of their nationality and it is surely not yours either. As you said: you learned it the hard way.
Ok, this kind of moral in fact ends all discussions about human rights.
EA doesn't give a flying plumbob about the oppressive reality in which Russian LGBT+ people are experiencing on a daily basis, all they wanted was an opportunity to scapegoat the homophobic law in Russia in order to conveniently divert the angst and dissatisfaction that's long accumulated within the sims community, and hopefully boosting the sales of this mediocre pack exploiting a holier-than-thou excuse of "solidarity".
._.
I agree with this. By not selling it in those countries, they're not getting the sales from it anyway, so my as well just release region locked codes or something for those countries. I have the freedom of living in the US and being able to enjoy the pack if I wanted, it's not Russian simmers fault their laws are not as accepting as ours.
Nope, it was not noble.None of this is Nobel.By doing this stunt they excluding the whole Russia fanbase including lgbt plus individuals in that country.This is not sticking it to anyone.Especialy since the game is about the players sims not there.
Several russian simmers have shared their stories regarding what has happened, if you haven't I suggest you read their posts.
And they also really did not need this considering what is happening in the world right now.
Video games should offer escapism and relief for people.
No it doesn't. These discussions should take place in the right places and with the right organizations, and EA is not one then. Customer rights though should be EA's concern indeed and they just chose to violate them as their product was not banned or restricted by the government, they just decided not to provide it to certain countries all by themselves.
I likes cospiracy, but in this time seem I have reason
The conflict USA-Russia, and EA taken this pack and the "possible " (but imaginary) conflict with anti-propaganda law, to take part at this geopolitical discussion
EA is a publicly-traded, multi-billion dollar company. They're not going to shut themselves out of MILLIONS of dollars in sales unless there's a cost-effective reason for them to do so. A moral stance--by itself--is not cost-effective. In my opinion what's more likely is that EA's legal and financial departments ran the numbers and figures and determined the company incurred more of a financial risk by releasing the game in Russia (as is, OR with adjustments to bring it further into compliance w/ Russian law) than they stood to lose in sales. The fact that the legal barriers in this case are due to an anti-LGBT stance is perfect for EA because that gives them an opportunity to publicly take the moral stance on an issue that, behind closed doors, was made for far more cynical reasons.
On the part of the Russian government, I think people claiming that all the Sims team would have to do to get the game past the censors is stick an '18+' label on the game and/or alter the game trailer and promotional materials are being a little naive about laws and their application. For one thing, the Russian government has no obligation or incentive to apply this law in the same way, across the board. As someone already mentioned, FIFA '17 was almost banned in Russia for displaying the LGBT flag in promotional materials, yet there was no problem with, say, Dream Home Decorator, which featured a gay couple in one of its promotional scenes. That is to say, the Russian government decides what counts and what doesn't count. There's little EA, a foreign company, can do to fight it.
In fact, since EA has run afoul of this particular law in the past, it isn't far-fetched to raise the issue of EA facing sanctions from the Russian government--especially since there's already tensions between the US and Russia over Ukraine potentially joining NATO.
Basically, IMO, there's no way EA made this decision based solely on making a moral stance. They love money too much to choose to lose this much in sales, unless they stood to lose even more $$ by selling the game in the Russian market.
Fifa17 was a game for all ages (including minors) while sims 4 is 18+ in Russia. The law applies to showing "promoting LGBT content" to minors hence the problem. With the 18+ age rating Sims 4 doesn't deal with that because in Russia, Sims 4 is only for adults.
Now maybe there were other concerns/other policies at play but as far as I understand legally they should be covered? On twitter, various russian simmers have better explained it.
Well, unless they are too self-conscious and know that no one's going to touch their garbage packs when everyone's fully dedicated to enjoying sims 2. In that case, they need to keep it as far away from the market to keep sims 4 sales figure alive.
Sorry for getting off-topic here.
._.
It's not just a Russian issue though. If you censor the cover art, it affects ALL LGBT. So no, not just Russians.
If you can release the pack without changing the cover art then absolutely do it, I'm seeing mixed answers from people so I don't know what to believe anymore.
But at my principal, changing the cover art to release it in Russia is not okay.
Human rights are not political. My love is not political. Just because others view it as propaganda does not make it political.