Neutral. I don't get the ones I don't want and honestly I don't think not having them would increase GP/EP turnout. They'd jjst go back to pumping out stuff packs. I imagine they shifted some of the development team to work on Sims 5 and along with COVID that's why we've seen a reduction in production.
I like that kits allow for niche things, particularly for CAS/BB items and you can just not get it if you don't like it. I'm mostly interested in the CAS ones myself.
At least the stuff packs had gameplay items though.
This. I'd rather have stuff packs! Kits are not worth the money and is probably one of the reasons why we have gotten less content (stuff packs and expansion packs).
Everybody's been saying kits don't interfere with development, but there's been no EP this winter, yet somehow EA tricked their fanbase into shelling out $40 anyway.
You're looking at it backwards, if whatever EP they are working on had some development issues which needed to be worked out, that doesn't take the staff that make CAS and BB items, only the ones that work on code. i.e. those other people had time to work on stuff for kits.
The development teams consist of a lot of different skill sets, and the ones who handle gameplay and code are not the same people as the ones that design clothes, furniture and wallpaper (etc.).
I also imagine the development of TS5 is likely to effect content for TS4 as well. Different stages of the new game development process require more or less of the varying skill sets as well, so at any given point I can see specific types of content for TS4 being impacted if they have to shuffle people around to meet project goal deadlines on TS5.
If they have so many people working on CAS and BB assets instead of gameplay, they've got their priorities wrong. Fact is, they're paying people to make these items, while they could be paying people to code and animate instead. So yeah, no matter how you look at it, CAS and BB kits are getting in the way of gameplay, because those are resources being spent.
Creating CAS/BB items is probably a LOT cheaper/faster (requires MUCH less testing in comparison to gameplay code) and thus more efficient to focus on compared to programming gameplay in a business point of view. CAS/BB is still (sellable) content and generally does not need nearly as much testing time compared to gameplay coding -- which when you have a million of optional packs and each player has a million combinations of said packs -- makes trying to get that new code to not break old code very difficult/time consuming and thus costs more money in comparison.
I won't argue about priorities as I do agree we need more gameplay. But generally creating CAS/BB is much quicker to make/less expensive than gameplay and a company is going to focus on profits first.
But honestly? The amount of 'artists' compared to 'programmers' (there are more positions/rokes than this; but you know what I mean) in the dev team probably isn't that much different. The artists are probably able to finish their work quicker than it takes for code to be made + tested thoroughly (altho truthfully its never enough but they have to meet deadlines). And because they can't help on the coding as that isn't their skillset; they're given a smaller assignment (kits) in the meantime to keep money flowing in between packs or possibly given to another team to help finish whatever their working on.
If I remember right there are multiple teams that work on various projects at once. Folks dedicated to GPs, EPs, or SPs (and now I guess kits?).
Kits are just filler to keep money going in between packs. They're baby stuff packs but while stuff packs are bigger and need more planning + coordination for smoothing out a specific theme; kits are very specific (albeit niche) focuses and don't combine multiple types of content (while stuff packs feature CAS, BB, and 1 or 2 gameplay items). Stuff some folks may want but there is not enough demand to make a full blown pack for it (or its too specific to make a full pack for it).
The game desperately does need more gameplay + coding work but kits aren't specifically taking that away; they're a symptom of a problem the game has had since release (and COVID made it worse). Sims 4 has ALWAYS been 'visually pretty but shallow gameplay.' Maxis does need to hire more programmers but let's be real-- with Sims 5 in development (programming) focus/priority is probably going to go there.
Not to mention with all the free updates going in that is going to slow content down production considerably.
The Sims 2&3 had stores, Sims 4 doesn't. In my mind the kits are akin to store packs, a way to continuously generate revenue around other things.
They are about the price of a cup of coffee, something we buy for two people a few times a week on the way to my daughter's work, but they last longer. I've bought the ones I wanted and ignored the ones I didn't.
I don't get the comparison of kits to the Sims 3 store. I actually liked the Sims 3 store. Sure things were pricey, but they had weekly sales, daily deals and regular freebies.
Unlike kits the Sims 3 store sold new worlds and tons of gameplay items, I could always find ways to improve my game even between EP releases, but Kits are just a handful of mediocre cas and build items, and so far no sales on kits, and you can't bundle kits yet, can you? I haven't even bothered to touch my game in months, because nothing interesting has caused me to.want to play it. Maybe if all kits included a gameplay item, or a new world, but that would make them stuff packs... so... Yeah maybe just focus on EPs instead.
I was neutral about them until the end of summer. But the last few months when kits replaced every other type of DLC was an overload. I am not against kits themselves but the balance between kits and other content is off.
Yes I was pretty neutral too until we got bombarded with them. Then it was implied they would not replace or get in the way of development. Just a quick was to give us content. No November expansion, last game pack was in June 2021 and a year since we have seen a stuff pack. What are we supposed to think?
What are we supposed to think, indeed. If kits aren't the reason for the lack of any other type of pack for 5 months, then why don't they just tell us what the real reason is. At the moment we don't know if kits are responsible or not. We can only guess.
Neutral. I don't get the ones I don't want and honestly I don't think not having them would increase GP/EP turnout. They'd jjst go back to pumping out stuff packs. I imagine they shifted some of the development team to work on Sims 5 and along with COVID that's why we've seen a reduction in production.
I like that kits allow for niche things, particularly for CAS/BB items and you can just not get it if you don't like it. I'm mostly interested in the CAS ones myself.
At least the stuff packs had gameplay items though.
I totally agree. Stuff packs, especially the later ones like nifty knitting, laundry day and paranormal are offer a good amount of gameplay.
Unfortunately that might be a reason for them to create kits. Maybe stuff packs developed into a type of pack that is more expensive to develop compared to the first ones like luxury party or the hot tub pack. It is way cheaper to produce CAS and BB kits.
If these kits had a running theme with added gameplay content in each one, then I would be more interested in buying them. But the content in these kits is so scattered it feels like the devs are scrambling to simply release anything with the hope people will be willing to part with some cash. And the nearly total lack of any information coming from the gurus is irritating. Especially after last year's disappointments. Once again, they have opened the year with a vague announcement that is leading to speculation running amok in the forums. It seems they have nothing noteworthy to announce so they have left it up to us to build up some excitement about something we know absolutely nothing about. This old routine became boring about 4 years ago. Whatever happened to their promise to be more transparent and keep us up to date on future content?
The point I was making is that I feel development has slowed due to kits despite their claim to it not being the case. The Expansion they are working on is technically overdue based on the way they have been releasing content. We have not seen a stuff pack in a year.
I guess we'll never know. Just speculation.
considering we having had a stuff pack in a year and no November expansion...we might be a bit past speculation. The stuff pack situation speaks volume alone.
The problem is that we are consumers, and the argument that kits don't interfere with development only works if we are aware of what their development looks like... But we aren't. So when they make 9 kits in less than a year and begin 2022 with two more it's difficult for us to see how their production schedule can change so much without their development for packs being affected.
What are we as consumers seeing? 3 packs, base game updates and 11 kits in a year. That's almost 1 kit every month, and people need to work on these kits and put them together.
The only people who work on the kits are the specific developers for those departments. That's why they're so small and microfocused. Since we get mostly CAS and then build/buy, it's those developers whose time is being used. We only got one gameplay kit so far, so that tells me that the gameplay devs, the coders and engineers are working on other things, which are usually the more time consuming of the game content.
So we do know a little bit about the game's development. It was clarified by the developers last year when kits started to be a Thing. They explained straight up that when working on larger projects like packs and base game patches, they will sometimes have some departments or developers who finish early and have to wait on the other departments. They decided that Kits are the perfect "in-between" packs that add a little extra to fill in the work gap. This is why they don't interfere with pack production. They are created by developers who have already finished their work on whatever pack or patch was on the main agenda.
Maxis has over 200 devs working on Sims 4. Each sector of development requires a certain skill set and job requirements just like any other workplace. Developers, contrary to popular belief, are not all interchangeable. Graphics Designers are different from Coders who are different from Writers who are different from game Engineers who are different from sound effects specialists, etc. (Just a disclaimer, I don't know what all of the actual positions are, I just know there's a lot of them.) You don't just learn "basic game development" and jump into any job making video games so for those who think you can just throw the extra devs at another department, it doesn't make sense. They can switch pack teams when they include a variety of content, but a modeler can't be tossed in with the coders and expected to be useful. I hope that makes sense?
What we're seeing with Kits is either just how frequently the CAS and B/B departments end up waiting on the other devs, or that there's been an immense amount of focus switched to base gameplay updates so that those other departments have free time to create more kits. Personally, I think it's a little of both.
It's the direction of the sims4 that I am not happy about. I am assuming that the people over at Maxis are doing their jobs and are taking care of their staff (they seem to be happy so I think they are doing a good job), which means that the content that we are getting are the amount of content that they were able to make in the time and people that they had available.
But this is a shift in the direction of the sims4... we are seeing less packs, more kits, and less gameplay (but possibly more game updates?) and I am not sure how I feel about it.
If Maxis could make more of the most requested things people want for the sims4 I think I would be more okay with it. Romance was one of the more requested things so we will see.
I quite like the kits personally in terms of CAS and build and buy but I personally don’t really feel as though the ones I have contribute to the gameplay. Obviously it’s nice creating a whole vibe based around the sim but I would prefer more EP’s or other packs personally :)
Kits may not be taking up production time with other packs, but they’re definitely pushing down the appearances, so far, of other packs; mainly stuff packs. We finally got stuff packs up and going again after a long while without them and then the team introduces kits and now it’s been a year since we’ve seen stuff packs.
~I just like lifestates. Is that too much to ask for?~
I don't get the comparison of kits to the Sims 3 store.
They are more like the Sims 2 store. There were small sets you could get with CAS or buy mode items, with a theme like Castle, Asian Fusion, or Spooky. There was only one that added gameplay, Oh! Baby, and it only had two items.
I thought kits were supposed to be items that are not in the game such as poolslide, pool tables, sewing machines, crackpot, kids rocking horses, smoothies machine, stroller for babies and toddler, different kind of arcade games, my recipes cook book, updated coffee and tea machine, more computer, stereo, TV ect... man was I wrong 😒🙄
The point I was making is that I feel development has slowed due to kits despite their claim to it not being the case. The Expansion they are working on is technically overdue based on the way they have been releasing content. We have not seen a stuff pack in a year.
I guess we'll never know. Just speculation.
considering we having had a stuff pack in a year and no November expansion...we might be a bit past speculation. The stuff pack situation speaks volume alone.
The problem is that we are consumers, and the argument that kits don't interfere with development only works if we are aware of what their development looks like... But we aren't. So when they make 9 kits in less than a year and begin 2022 with two more it's difficult for us to see how their production schedule can change so much without their development for packs being affected.
What are we as consumers seeing? 3 packs, base game updates and 11 kits in a year. That's almost 1 kit every month, and people need to work on these kits and put them together.
The only people who work on the kits are the specific developers for those departments. That's why they're so small and microfocused. Since we get mostly CAS and then build/buy, it's those developers whose time is being used. We only got one gameplay kit so far, so that tells me that the gameplay devs, the coders and engineers are working on other things, which are usually the more time consuming of the game content.
So we do know a little bit about the game's development. It was clarified by the developers last year when kits started to be a Thing. They explained straight up that when working on larger projects like packs and base game patches, they will sometimes have some departments or developers who finish early and have to wait on the other departments. They decided that Kits are the perfect "in-between" packs that add a little extra to fill in the work gap. This is why they don't interfere with pack production. They are created by developers who have already finished their work on whatever pack or patch was on the main agenda.
Maxis has over 200 devs working on Sims 4. Each sector of development requires a certain skill set and job requirements just like any other workplace. Developers, contrary to popular belief, are not all interchangeable. Graphics Designers are different from Coders who are different from Writers who are different from game Engineers who are different from sound effects specialists, etc. (Just a disclaimer, I don't know what all of the actual positions are, I just know there's a lot of them.) You don't just learn "basic game development" and jump into any job making video games so for those who think you can just throw the extra devs at another department, it doesn't make sense. They can switch pack teams when they include a variety of content, but a modeler can't be tossed in with the coders and expected to be useful. I hope that makes sense?
What we're seeing with Kits is either just how frequently the CAS and B/B departments end up waiting on the other devs, or that there's been an immense amount of focus switched to base gameplay updates so that those other departments have free time to create more kits. Personally, I think it's a little of both.
It's the direction of the sims4 that I am not happy about. I am assuming that the people over at Maxis are doing their jobs and are taking care of their staff (they seem to be happy so I think they are doing a good job), which means that the content that we are getting are the amount of content that they were able to make in the time and people that they had available.
But this is a shift in the direction of the sims4... we are seeing less packs, more kits, and less gameplay (but possibly more game updates?) and I am not sure how I feel about it.
If Maxis could make more of the most requested things people want for the sims4 I think I would be more okay with it. Romance was one of the more requested things so we will see.
That's fair and I basically agree. While I think we are getting a lot more free content over paid content, it's not necessarily the content that I wanted to see, and when that's the case, it can definitely feel like production in general has slowed. (Although since the devs switched to working from home I think there's probably also been a bit of a slow-down that was delayed because so many things were already in production before, and all of the new stuff is going to take a little longer to develop from here.)
I feel like the focus keeps shifting and shifting as they try new things every year with new marketing hooks when all the players really want are the staples of past games and the standard gameplay that has always made the Sims games an engaging and entertaining simulation. The fleeting, monotonous "trends" and experiments are getting a little monotonous.
I like the kits, don't love them. I also only buy the ones I am interested in. I am disappointed they haven't released more gameplay kits. Only one since the introduction of kits.
I'm on the fence. Some of them I love (blooming rooms, country kitchen, throwback fit) but the rest I'm just not crazy about. I wouldn't care if we were still getting our usual content but we're not.
Kits provide small amounts of content and gameplay options that might not have been added to the game.
The issue for me is the lack of gameplay kits at this point. My second issue is with the MM kit--this should have been called Couture Male Fashion kit.
I've honestly been safely ignoring the kits. Mostly I pick up BB stuff to tie in new worlds that have gallery builds that use them. And so far, the only case where that is a thing on a build I want is a Country Kitchen for a Cottage Living build. So basically, I've been getting around the push for BB kits because they are so fresh and new.
I do like additional CAS assets I get in stuff pack but it's kinda hard to sell me to cas assets by themselves. Except for Intellion Arrivals. But that is strictly because I really like professional-looking clothing.
And uh, I like gameplay changes but uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh shame that I despise vacumming already and Bust the Dust is already broken.
Also I personally don't mind the kits for reduced content because -gestures towards pandemic that is still ongoing and has totally messed with game development on all fronts-
I didn't really care much at first. I was entirely neutral about them to start, but we haven't gotten good releases. Only kits. And then the kits we do have are of such lackluster quality. I don't like this business model of rolling out kits and neglecting packs. Kits would have been fine we still got our regular expansion and game packs.
If all they're planning on releasing is kits, then I hope they're all CAS kits. I'm the least motivated to buy those and it just means money stays in my pocket.
I have disliked kits from the moment they were first announced, so I am definitely sick & tired of them at this point. Kits are overpriced & too small & limited in scope for me. I am also primarily interested in gameplay & so far, there is only one gameplay kit. But, as much as I would like to see more gameplay in TS4, I am also glad that the devs have seemingly abandoned gameplay kits. Due to their size & presumably small budget & turn around time, I do not think that gameplay kits can really be done well. I just wish the devs would abandon the kit concept entirely & shift their focus back to making only quality SPs, GPs & EPs.
Just wish there was more game-play kits. It's been almost a year since one was released. I feel they're completely ignoring them and we haven't gotten a Stuff Pack in a year, either. Just would like them to focus on game-play and bugs for right now because game-play needs a lot of love.. needs to be more fleshed out.
Comments
This. I'd rather have stuff packs! Kits are not worth the money and is probably one of the reasons why we have gotten less content (stuff packs and expansion packs).
Creating CAS/BB items is probably a LOT cheaper/faster (requires MUCH less testing in comparison to gameplay code) and thus more efficient to focus on compared to programming gameplay in a business point of view. CAS/BB is still (sellable) content and generally does not need nearly as much testing time compared to gameplay coding -- which when you have a million of optional packs and each player has a million combinations of said packs -- makes trying to get that new code to not break old code very difficult/time consuming and thus costs more money in comparison.
I won't argue about priorities as I do agree we need more gameplay. But generally creating CAS/BB is much quicker to make/less expensive than gameplay and a company is going to focus on profits first.
But honestly? The amount of 'artists' compared to 'programmers' (there are more positions/rokes than this; but you know what I mean) in the dev team probably isn't that much different. The artists are probably able to finish their work quicker than it takes for code to be made + tested thoroughly (altho truthfully its never enough but they have to meet deadlines). And because they can't help on the coding as that isn't their skillset; they're given a smaller assignment (kits) in the meantime to keep money flowing in between packs or possibly given to another team to help finish whatever their working on.
If I remember right there are multiple teams that work on various projects at once. Folks dedicated to GPs, EPs, or SPs (and now I guess kits?).
Kits are just filler to keep money going in between packs. They're baby stuff packs but while stuff packs are bigger and need more planning + coordination for smoothing out a specific theme; kits are very specific (albeit niche) focuses and don't combine multiple types of content (while stuff packs feature CAS, BB, and 1 or 2 gameplay items). Stuff some folks may want but there is not enough demand to make a full blown pack for it (or its too specific to make a full pack for it).
The game desperately does need more gameplay + coding work but kits aren't specifically taking that away; they're a symptom of a problem the game has had since release (and COVID made it worse). Sims 4 has ALWAYS been 'visually pretty but shallow gameplay.' Maxis does need to hire more programmers but let's be real-- with Sims 5 in development (programming) focus/priority is probably going to go there.
Not to mention with all the free updates going in that is going to slow content down production considerably.
They are about the price of a cup of coffee, something we buy for two people a few times a week on the way to my daughter's work, but they last longer. I've bought the ones I wanted and ignored the ones I didn't.
Unlike kits the Sims 3 store sold new worlds and tons of gameplay items, I could always find ways to improve my game even between EP releases, but Kits are just a handful of mediocre cas and build items, and so far no sales on kits, and you can't bundle kits yet, can you? I haven't even bothered to touch my game in months, because nothing interesting has caused me to.want to play it. Maybe if all kits included a gameplay item, or a new world, but that would make them stuff packs... so... Yeah maybe just focus on EPs instead.
What are we supposed to think, indeed. If kits aren't the reason for the lack of any other type of pack for 5 months, then why don't they just tell us what the real reason is. At the moment we don't know if kits are responsible or not. We can only guess.
I totally agree. Stuff packs, especially the later ones like nifty knitting, laundry day and paranormal are offer a good amount of gameplay.
Unfortunately that might be a reason for them to create kits. Maybe stuff packs developed into a type of pack that is more expensive to develop compared to the first ones like luxury party or the hot tub pack. It is way cheaper to produce CAS and BB kits.
It's the direction of the sims4 that I am not happy about. I am assuming that the people over at Maxis are doing their jobs and are taking care of their staff (they seem to be happy so I think they are doing a good job), which means that the content that we are getting are the amount of content that they were able to make in the time and people that they had available.
But this is a shift in the direction of the sims4... we are seeing less packs, more kits, and less gameplay (but possibly more game updates?) and I am not sure how I feel about it.
If Maxis could make more of the most requested things people want for the sims4 I think I would be more okay with it. Romance was one of the more requested things so we will see.
They are more like the Sims 2 store. There were small sets you could get with CAS or buy mode items, with a theme like Castle, Asian Fusion, or Spooky. There was only one that added gameplay, Oh! Baby, and it only had two items.
Just my personal take, and why I voted as I did.
That's fair and I basically agree. While I think we are getting a lot more free content over paid content, it's not necessarily the content that I wanted to see, and when that's the case, it can definitely feel like production in general has slowed. (Although since the devs switched to working from home I think there's probably also been a bit of a slow-down that was delayed because so many things were already in production before, and all of the new stuff is going to take a little longer to develop from here.)
I feel like the focus keeps shifting and shifting as they try new things every year with new marketing hooks when all the players really want are the staples of past games and the standard gameplay that has always made the Sims games an engaging and entertaining simulation. The fleeting, monotonous "trends" and experiments are getting a little monotonous.
The issue for me is the lack of gameplay kits at this point. My second issue is with the MM kit--this should have been called Couture Male Fashion kit.
Modern Menswear: https://shopmodernmenswear.com/
I do like additional CAS assets I get in stuff pack but it's kinda hard to sell me to cas assets by themselves. Except for Intellion Arrivals. But that is strictly because I really like professional-looking clothing.
And uh, I like gameplay changes but uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh shame that I despise vacumming already and Bust the Dust is already broken.
Also I personally don't mind the kits for reduced content because -gestures towards pandemic that is still ongoing and has totally messed with game development on all fronts-