Why I don't actually "play" the Sims.

SailorCeti · January 2022

I've played sims games since SimAnt, and all version of The Sims. But over the past few years, I've resorted to building, and even then, that's fallen off recently. Now, this isn't a rant post. I'm looking for solutions. Here's the thing, it's supposed to be a simulation game. For example, in SimCity, things progress and evolve, mostly as expected, according to your zoning and stuff. The only time you have to step in is when something goes wrong. With The Sims, it's you're constantly having to tell the sims what to do. Otherwise, things fall apart quickly.

I was hoping that at some point, the sims would include better AI and autonomy. I like the idea of setting up sim traits and preferences, get them a job, and then let things ride for the most part, to see how things evolve. That way, I can spend more time planning their future and doing fun things. So, is there any way to make it so that I don't have to actively send kids to school or parents to their jobs EVERY SINGLE DAY! These, and other things, are just so tedious, I can't get into the game.

Solutions?

Stormkeep · January 2022

Have you considered using mods that let you fine tune the autonomy?

There are a variety of them available, including ones that let you tell the sim to "focus" on specific types of things. This lets you guide their autonomy without having to actually give them specific instructions for each and every task.

VeeDub · January 2022

SailorCeti wrote: »

I've played sims games since SimAnt, and all version of The Sims. But over the past few years, I've resorted to building, and even then, that's fallen off recently. Now, this isn't a rant post. I'm looking for solutions. Here's the thing, it's supposed to be a simulation game. For example, in SimCity, things progress and evolve, mostly as expected, according to your zoning and stuff. The only time you have to step in is when something goes wrong. With The Sims, it's you're constantly having to tell the sims what to do. Otherwise, things fall apart quickly.

I was hoping that at some point, the sims would include better AI and autonomy. I like the idea of setting up sim traits and preferences, get them a job, and then let things ride for the most part, to see how things evolve. That way, I can spend more time planning their future and doing fun things. So, is there any way to make it so that I don't have to actively send kids to school or parents to their jobs EVERY SINGLE DAY! These, and other things, are just so tedious, I can't get into the game.

Solutions?

My suggestion may not be the kind of solution you want, but if it were me, I'd have long since decided that this probably is either not the play style or not the game for me. In fact, I started out trying to play it more as a simulation game but learned pretty early on that I didn't enjoy that as much as I did making my own rules and my own gameplay out of the bare essential tools the game gave me. And mods. If it weren't for all that, I'd have given up and moved on a couple of years ago.

simgirl1010 · January 2022

Sounds like you just want to sit back and watch the gameplay unfold?

What does planning their future and doing fun things involve? 🤔

SailorCeti · January 2022

I'm not fond of mods. They're always going out of date, and then you have to find and download new ones, and often glitch the game.

crocobaura · January 2022

Mods are great, if you have the time and patience to search for them and customize your game. I like playing with sims indirectly, like socializing with my other playable sims when going out and meeting them randomly in the world. I like to see what they are up to and then when I play them again I incorporate that into their story. Anyway, if you don't want to send sims to their jobs everyday, just give them flexible freelance jobs that they can do whenever. You can also add lots of vacation days to the calendar. 😊

Stormkeep · January 2022

SailorCeti wrote: »

I'm not fond of mods. They're always going out of date, and then you have to find and download new ones, and often glitch the game.

The key is to only use mods by established modders that have a history of showing they update quickly AND adjusting things so your own game doesn't automatically apply updates. That way you can keep playing with your mods until the mods get updates, and then you update the game.

Your missing out on a whole world of possibilities by just writing off mods. Modders have made Sims games way better than they truly are since the original The Sims game back at the turn of this century.

DaWaterRat · January 2022

My sims usually do go to school or work autonomously, at least most of the time. If they're late, it's because I told them to do something (usually shower, sometimes their homework) when there wasn't enough time left in the morning to do it.

That said, autonomy is generally better in uncluttered, small households. The more there is to get in the sim's way, and the more sims there are on lot, the worse autonomy is. But if I'm playing with just one or two sims in the household on an uncluttered lot, I can easily let my game go for a few minutes (5-10) without directing my sims at all.

I do have to have them work on their daily task (unless the adult has the Responsible trait, or the kid has a B or an A grade in HS. The former marks as done, the later does it autonomously most of the time) eat, shower, and occasionally remind them that their bladder is indeed more important than cleaning up (or eating, or sleeping)

And I have to direct them to do any skills I want them to level up in, though they're more likely to do it autonomously if they have it as a preference. So if there's a particular skill you want them working on autonomously, make it a preferred activity.

SailorCeti · January 2022

I wouldn't know where to start. Do you guys have any suggestions? What I need is something that can make the sims act more like their traits. For example, Clean trait should make them always do their dishes. Any way to add a Disciplined trait so kids do their homework automatically before playing? What about alarm clocks, or daily planners, so sims do things at certain times, without having to be told or reminded. Set bedtimes that automatically make sims wash up before hand? Things like this.

SailorCeti · January 2022

DaWaterRat wrote: »

My sims usually do go to school or work autonomously, at least most of the time. If they're late, it's because I told them to do something (usually shower, sometimes their homework) when there wasn't enough time left in the morning to do it.

That said, autonomy is generally better in uncluttered, small households. The more there is to get in the sim's way, and the more sims there are on lot, the worse autonomy is. But if I'm playing with just one or two sims in the household on an uncluttered lot, I can easily let my game go for a few minutes (5-10) without directing my sims at all.

I do have to have them work on their daily task (unless the adult has the Responsible trait, or the kid has a B or an A grade in HS. The former marks as done, the later does it autonomously most of the time) eat, shower, and occasionally remind them that their bladder is indeed more important than cleaning up (or eating, or sleeping)

And I have to direct them to do any skills I want them to level up in, though they're more likely to do it autonomously if they have it as a preference. So if there's a particular skill you want them working on autonomously, make it a preferred activity.

Yeah, see, I never like the idea of having goals, like leveling skills, or having job-related tasks. I want them to go to work and come home. The game is too quest-like. Not that I don't want a sim to get better at something. I just don't want to have to be personally responsible for that.

Maybe the Sims isn't the game for me. I need something LIKE the sims, but where I can set up an entire neighborhood and examine ALL the families at once, without having to switch or load a new game. Does that make sense?

AncientMuse · January 2022

wrong thread

Flap · January 2022

To be honest, I think The Sims 4 works very differently than it's predecessors on simulation subject. While TS2 and TS3 used more "scenarios" that would happen to shake things a little bit, on TS4 those same "scenarios" (or "events" if you prefer to call em this way) are more consequence of your playthrough.

What does it means practically? IMO, it means that you need to play more than one household to really see how time passage affect things. And I really think this way because TS4 seems to be more like a "building block" in the matter of Sims personality.

If you look back, TS3 limited our Sims to one lifetime aspiration while TS4 appears to encourage viewing aspiration as objectives that can be changed whenever your Sim want to. Completing more than one aspiration on TS4 helps to forge a more complex personality and, also, gives different bonuses.

I also think that because of the blank save they gave us at the beginning, without basically anything but the original households. How your game unfolds from there it is up to you. But I guess there's more clues around this iteration on this view. Example: Blair the Bear used to be a NPC on TS1 but now on TS4 you can create your own Blair the Bear (with the same traits that will make her act as TS1 if you want) as a Sim and play it if you want or simply put in on the world. The same with thieves, maybe: you can create your own kleptos.

And in the middle of this enters Emotions. Mostly people here likes to control their Sims emotions but I think that, more interesting, it is just to observe how it goes, in the good and the bad. Without an exterior force (like us, The Watchers) it is kinda hard or tricky to get Very Something only living your routine day. Respect Sims emotions (and I would add also their emotional whims whichever is) it is also very important to see how events unfold on this interaction.

Anyway, I hope you find a good way to simulate your digital world.

Happy Simming!

SailorCeti · January 2022

AncientMuse wrote: »

wrong thread

You had a point, though. Sims isn't designed to be played that way. The thing is, it could be, through configurable options. All they have to do is fix traits and add more, so they actually impact the sims and aren't just vague suggestions.

AncientMuse · January 2022

SailorCeti wrote: »

Yeah, see, I never like the idea of having goals, like leveling skills, or having job-related tasks. I want them to go to work and come home. The game is too quest-like. Not that I don't want a sim to get better at something. I just don't want to have to be personally responsible for that.

Maybe the Sims isn't the game for me. I need something LIKE the sims, but where I can set up an entire neighborhood and examine ALL the families at once, without having to switch or load a new game. Does that make sense?

Sounds like a city building game (like SimCity).

The Sims is a role playing simulation game, meaning you have to be an active participant in directing each individual sims' lives, otherwise they stand around doing nothing and/or they eventually die off due to your lack of input/direction.

Whereas with city building games, you can just plunk down a few buildings, populate the area, and then sit back and watch the game play out.

There's also a type of game called Virtual Villagers (there's also a bunch of other ones based off of that game made by Big Fish Games), where you set up your little people (a village) and then watch the game play out in real time with little to no input from you.

But as it stands right now, there is no game currently in existence where you can get into such great detail like The Sims but without having to actively participate in their lives. Or at least I'm not aware of any such game in existence.

crocobaura · January 2022

SailorCeti wrote: »

DaWaterRat wrote: »

My sims usually do go to school or work autonomously, at least most of the time. If they're late, it's because I told them to do something (usually shower, sometimes their homework) when there wasn't enough time left in the morning to do it.

That said, autonomy is generally better in uncluttered, small households. The more there is to get in the sim's way, and the more sims there are on lot, the worse autonomy is. But if I'm playing with just one or two sims in the household on an uncluttered lot, I can easily let my game go for a few minutes (5-10) without directing my sims at all.

I do have to have them work on their daily task (unless the adult has the Responsible trait, or the kid has a B or an A grade in HS. The former marks as done, the later does it autonomously most of the time) eat, shower, and occasionally remind them that their bladder is indeed more important than cleaning up (or eating, or sleeping)

And I have to direct them to do any skills I want them to level up in, though they're more likely to do it autonomously if they have it as a preference. So if there's a particular skill you want them working on autonomously, make it a preferred activity.

Yeah, see, I never like the idea of having goals, like leveling skills, or having job-related tasks. I want them to go to work and come home. The game is too quest-like. Not that I don't want a sim to get better at something. I just don't want to have to be personally responsible for that.

Maybe the Sims isn't the game for me. I need something LIKE the sims, but where I can set up an entire neighborhood and examine ALL the families at once, without having to switch or load a new game. Does that make sense?

If you play a house of multiple sims, the ones you don't control do tend to carry on autonomously just fine. They go to work, they come home, eat, sleep, do something fun. Maybe you could try playing with roommates, you don't control them directly, but you can see what they get up to while living in your house.

SailorCeti · January 2022

AncientMuse wrote: »

SailorCeti wrote: »

Yeah, see, I never like the idea of having goals, like leveling skills, or having job-related tasks. I want them to go to work and come home. The game is too quest-like. Not that I don't want a sim to get better at something. I just don't want to have to be personally responsible for that.

Maybe the Sims isn't the game for me. I need something LIKE the sims, but where I can set up an entire neighborhood and examine ALL the families at once, without having to switch or load a new game. Does that make sense?

Sounds like a city building game (like SimCity).

The Sims is a role playing simulation game, meaning you have to be an active participant in directing each individual sims' lives, otherwise they stand around doing nothing and/or they eventually die off due to your lack of input/direction.

Whereas with city building games, you can just plunk down a few buildings, populate the area, and then sit back and watch the game play out.

There's also a type of game called Virtual Villagers (there's also a bunch of other ones based off of that game made by Big Fish Games), where you set up your little people (a village) and then watch the game play out in real time with little to no input from you.

But as it stands right now, there is no game currently in existence where you can get into such great detail like The Sims but without having to actively participate in their lives. Or at least I'm not aware of any such game in existence.

Yeah. =/ I think what I want is something in between. I don't want to manage the whole city. That's not very personal. I like creating the sims though. It's be nice to create a bunch, plop down some houses, and only intervene when something goes wrong, or I feel like it. The thing is, I'm old. I've raised six kids of my own, and occasionally tend to our seven grandkids. I'm tired of micro-managing everything.

crocobaura · January 2022

SailorCeti wrote: »

AncientMuse wrote: »

SailorCeti wrote: »

Yeah, see, I never like the idea of having goals, like leveling skills, or having job-related tasks. I want them to go to work and come home. The game is too quest-like. Not that I don't want a sim to get better at something. I just don't want to have to be personally responsible for that.

Maybe the Sims isn't the game for me. I need something LIKE the sims, but where I can set up an entire neighborhood and examine ALL the families at once, without having to switch or load a new game. Does that make sense?

Sounds like a city building game (like SimCity).

The Sims is a role playing simulation game, meaning you have to be an active participant in directing each individual sims' lives, otherwise they stand around doing nothing and/or they eventually die off due to your lack of input/direction.

Whereas with city building games, you can just plunk down a few buildings, populate the area, and then sit back and watch the game play out.

There's also a type of game called Virtual Villagers (there's also a bunch of other ones based off of that game made by Big Fish Games), where you set up your little people (a village) and then watch the game play out in real time with little to no input from you.

But as it stands right now, there is no game currently in existence where you can get into such great detail like The Sims but without having to actively participate in their lives. Or at least I'm not aware of any such game in existence.

Yeah. =/ I think what I want is something in between. I don't want to manage the whole city. That's not very personal. I like creating the sims though. It's be nice to create a bunch, plop down some houses, and only intervene when something goes wrong, or I feel like it. The thing is, I'm old. I've raised six kids of my own, and occasionally tend to our seven grandkids. I'm tired of micro-managing everything.

You can also ignore some of the sims if you run a business from another lot. While you are away, the game will take care of them, send them to school, work, call a nanny, etc.

AncientMuse · January 2022

Here's the link to the Virtual Villages/Virtual Families games over at Big Fish Games. I think the games are free?

Give them a try. They play out in real time and you can create a family (or a small village), build them a home, get married, have kids, decorate/furnish/upgrade things, pick a career, etc. But your little people pretty much manage themselves without much input from you.

logion · January 2022

I'm not sure what could work for you. I used mods to configure the game to my liking. I recommend mods from littlemssam and bienchen. They make a lot of small mods that make changes to your game and they are easy to use.

They make playing the game so much easier, it honestly feels like the game runs better when I'm using them. The mods are doing things like making sims check less on toddlers, no longer playing in leaf piles, automatically repairing broken items, no react in disgust, no autonomous pushups etc.

Stormkeep · January 2022

SailorCeti wrote: »

Yeah. =/ I think what I want is something in between. I don't want to manage the whole city. That's not very personal. I like creating the sims though. It's be nice to create a bunch, plop down some houses, and only intervene when something goes wrong, or I feel like it. The thing is, I'm old. I've raised six kids of my own, and occasionally tend to our seven grandkids. I'm tired of micro-managing everything.

I'd love something like what you're looking for as well. Though I also do play and enjoy all of the Sims games.

Back during the era of the original The Sims they were working on a game like what you're talking about which was going to be like a crossover between SimCity and The Sims. It was called Simsville and you'd have managed the sims in a small village without even having the "direct control" like what the Sims gives.
It got scrapped though and was never finished, unfortunately, because fan reception of the concept was rather tepid. I was really disappointed.

ModerateOsprey · January 2022

Interesting post. Sims 4 was my first Sims game, but not my first Maxis game. I have played all the SimCity games since the first one and excepting the final one (though I recently noticed it is on Gamepass, so may give it a try for curiosity sake). I have also played quite a few other simulation games with Populous being a real favourite many moons ago. I have even programmed a handful of simple life simulations such as predator/prey and flocking simulations.

I was expecting the sims to be similar to these myself with the gameplay being as you have described where the fun lies in the setup and nudging the simulation in desired directions via tweaking simulation parameters. Get it wrong and catastrophe!

There are some tools in game available to help you with this and, perhaps, some light modding will give you quite a bit of precision control in the simulation parameters.

There was an excellent post on this forum within a year or so of this game's release by one of the developers who went into some depth on the autonomy of the sims. I have searched and searched I can't find it

During questions after the main post the developer confirmed there was a degree of training with a new sim required for effective autonomy, even for basic needs. I have noticed this myself when it comes to basic needs.

I always ensure I set a routine for the first few days of new sim's life and they, mostly, stick to it. Of course, if you play a sim and give it no routine then it will start to ignore needs etc to get that video game/dance/etc game fix. Speaking of which, most of the subtlety from the training/traits etc seems to be drowned out by highly amplified object attraction such as computers, sadly. I dearly wish they would do some balancing with objects.

Your next tool is the moods and traits of the sims. Happy is a special moodlet that acts as a booster/buff to the dominant standard mood (Focused, Flirty, Energised, etc). The degree of background ambience is controlled in build/buy. Nice decor amps up the happy buff. This has the effect of increasing the chance of the sim autonomously carrying out actions related to that current mood. The more you amplify that, the more likely they will carry out those interactions.

I have done a few experiments to try and achieve what you describe and as result I have households that are pretty unconventional and you have to play them in a very 'gamey' way, but work well in this regard.

The simplest setup would be something like a couple of sims both with genius/geek/cheerful in a nicely decorated space and only the objects that you want them to interact with present such as a bookshelf (only containing your desired skill books)/computer. Train them for a few days and then start to add/remove objects. Use anything you can find to make sure that the sims are always in the desired mood for the activity you desire and that the sims are Happy, preferably with it boosted. Eventually, you will find that you can have households running pretty hands off. Not that I would want to live in one like that. mind. It is pretty dystopian

The more you min/max, the more desired behaviors are reinforced.

I have not done it for a while but I have built fairly effective factories where sims pump out crafted items from woodwork tables, for example. These are based on residential lots where the workers live in. Likes/dislikes help a lot in managing the fun need when using your sims as automated slave drones. Other tools are clubs, etc which can be OK for bursts and must be used on a routine.

Playing in households with a chaos of objects and sims with a range of different traits will mess up any notion of this traditional idea of simulation play. Traditional family households do not lend themselves well to this, but you can still do some training and by managing individual moods you can reinforce behavior and the interference burden will lessen.

I am very sorry for the long post.

Mstybl95 · January 2022

SailorCeti wrote: »

AncientMuse wrote: »

wrong thread

You had a point, though. Sims isn't designed to be played that way. The thing is, it could be, through configurable options. All they have to do is fix traits and add more, so they actually impact the sims and aren't just vague suggestions.

The sims was always designed to be played that way because that's always how I've played until I couldn't in TS4.

I'm right there with you. TS4 is my least favorite of the series and I grow incredibly bored with how every single sim acts and reacts to everything in completely identical ways. I have tried mods, I've tried changing my play style, and I've tried creating the entire world from scratch. Nothing seems to change how much fun I can have in this game due to the fact that sims act exactly alike and there is no difference and they all are the same height and there is no variance and the grandpa and the teen are wearing the same exact clothes. It's very hard for me to get into this game. And not for lack of trying.

The problem for me is that this is supposed to be a simulation game and it is not a simulation game at all. I come and go mostly.

SailorCeti · January 2022

Mstybl95 wrote: »

SailorCeti wrote: »

AncientMuse wrote: »

wrong thread

You had a point, though. Sims isn't designed to be played that way. The thing is, it could be, through configurable options. All they have to do is fix traits and add more, so they actually impact the sims and aren't just vague suggestions.

The sims was always designed to be played that way because that's always how I've played until I couldn't in TS4.

I'm right there with you. TS4 is my least favorite of the series and I grow incredibly bored with how every single sim acts and reacts to everything in completely identical ways. I have tried mods, I've tried changing my play style, and I've tried creating the entire world from scratch. Nothing sims to change how much fun I can have in this game due to the fact that seems act exactly alike and there is no difference and they all are the same height and there is no variance and the grandpa and the teen are wearing the same exact clothes. It's very hard for me to get into this game. And not for lack of trying.

The problem for me is that this is supposed to be a simulation game and it is not a simulation game at all. I come and go mostly.

Yeah, it's almost as if they are the same sim, with cosmetic differences. We need more AI and less scripting.

crocobaura · January 2022

SailorCeti wrote: »

Mstybl95 wrote: »

SailorCeti wrote: »

AncientMuse wrote: »

wrong thread

You had a point, though. Sims isn't designed to be played that way. The thing is, it could be, through configurable options. All they have to do is fix traits and add more, so they actually impact the sims and aren't just vague suggestions.

The sims was always designed to be played that way because that's always how I've played until I couldn't in TS4.

I'm right there with you. TS4 is my least favorite of the series and I grow incredibly bored with how every single sim acts and reacts to everything in completely identical ways. I have tried mods, I've tried changing my play style, and I've tried creating the entire world from scratch. Nothing sims to change how much fun I can have in this game due to the fact that seems act exactly alike and there is no difference and they all are the same height and there is no variance and the grandpa and the teen are wearing the same exact clothes. It's very hard for me to get into this game. And not for lack of trying.

The problem for me is that this is supposed to be a simulation game and it is not a simulation game at all. I come and go mostly.

Yeah, it's almost as if they are the same sim, with cosmetic differences. We need more AI and less scripting.

That's because sims are not as dramatic in their expressions like in previous games, and now the emphasis is placed quite a lot on moodlets. But, if left to their own devices, they do have their own ways of doing things based on their traits, likes and what's available in their house.

LatinaBunny · January 2022

Hmm…
Have you tried playing Sims 3 or Sims 2 again? The AI in those is usually much better than in Sims 4, for sure, and the Sims 3’s traits actually matter and such.

Virtual Villagers and Virtual Families as suggested earlier could also be another solution.

If mods that allow some more AI moments don’t work, then I think maybe a city builder like Tropico or or survival builder like Banished could be an alternative…?

Prison Architect (and maybe Academia, which is similar, but different) could be a good simulation alternative.

Otherwise, maybe you would prefer a different type of game.

Stormkeep · January 2022

LatinaBunny wrote: »

Hmm…
Have you tried playing Sims 3 or Sims 2 again? The AI in those is usually much better than in Sims 4, for sure, and the Sims 3’s traits actually matter and such.

Actually, I do play TS3 regularly, and TS2 on occasion as well....I have all 3 installed. And I couldn't disagree with you more. The farther back you go in the franchise the more Sim activities are driven by objects in the environment rather than the individual Sims themselves. The only aspect of the previous games where I feel that at least the illusion of AI was better was in Sim-to-Sim interactions in TS2 because of the whole attraction system. And honestly, even that was terribly simplistic if you dug under the hood (i.e. modded).

Just mho.

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Why I don't actually "play" the Sims.

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