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Pronouns are coming to the base game?!

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  • talongirl6talongirl6 Posts: 184 Member
    I honestly don't know how I feel about this. On one hand, I don't like that they've been removing gendered pronouns from things such as the moodlets in more recent packs (at least I'm pretty sure that this is happening, as I only see gendered pronouns in some of the older moodlets these days. I could be wrong though). I prefer it when my Sims are referred to by their gender since it is more like the older Sims games to me in that way. I also think that there are bigger issues that need to be fixed before adding a lot more new things that would take a while to add into the game. There are a lot of bugs and some gameplay features that could use a few more minor things to be great.

    However, I also think that there should be the option for more pronouns eventually if they can get it right in the coding. It would be good for people who do use other pronouns since a lot of games don't have those options. It would also just be fun to make Sims that aren't male or female for once.
  • Zeldaboy180Zeldaboy180 Posts: 5,997 Member
    I doubt it means a universal switch to they/them pronouns for everyone, rest assured.

    Having one's gender respected, is important to almost all people, whether cis or trans, binary or nonbinary, and that's why the addition of more pronouns in the game is a good thing. It allows players to avoid having their Sims misgendered, whether that means being called he/him, she/her, or they/them. If it's not right for that Sim, it's misgendering. Same as in real life.

    You'd be surprised. Animal crossing got rid gender and now everyone is referred to as they them
    e68338c368f106ae784e73111955bd86.png
  • Zeldaboy180Zeldaboy180 Posts: 5,997 Member
    Sindocat wrote: »
    Of course it will be an option. If they were going to make it a one-size-for-all approach, it would be done.

    I really don't like the narrative that people are being forced into playing "that way". You aren't and you won't be,

    What will happen is that some others, who have never been able to play that way will be.

    Also, singular "they" is older in grammatical usage than singular "you". Or dost thou still insist upon the second person singular pronouns, "thou, thee, thy, thine" when addressing an individual as well?

    Please stop using grammar to cover for rudeness and bigotry.

    Look at games like animal crossing that have completely removed gender. It is not out of the realm of possibility.
    e68338c368f106ae784e73111955bd86.png
  • IcewolfIcewolf Posts: 709 Member
    Sindocat wrote: »
    Of course it will be an option. If they were going to make it a one-size-for-all approach, it would be done.

    I really don't like the narrative that people are being forced into playing "that way". You aren't and you won't be,

    What will happen is that some others, who have never been able to play that way will be.

    Also, singular "they" is older in grammatical usage than singular "you". Or dost thou still insist upon the second person singular pronouns, "thou, thee, thy, thine" when addressing an individual as well?

    Please stop using grammar to cover for rudeness and bigotry.

    Look at games like animal crossing that have completely removed gender. It is not out of the realm of possibility.

    As someone who plays Animal Crossing, I hate that they refer me to they. I wish they kept female/male genders. What's funny, the english version is the only one that got rid off the female/male pronouns. It's so silly.
  • StrawberryYogurtStrawberryYogurt Posts: 2,799 Member
    Icewolf wrote: »
    Sindocat wrote: »
    Of course it will be an option. If they were going to make it a one-size-for-all approach, it would be done.

    I really don't like the narrative that people are being forced into playing "that way". You aren't and you won't be,

    What will happen is that some others, who have never been able to play that way will be.

    Also, singular "they" is older in grammatical usage than singular "you". Or dost thou still insist upon the second person singular pronouns, "thou, thee, thy, thine" when addressing an individual as well?

    Please stop using grammar to cover for rudeness and bigotry.

    Look at games like animal crossing that have completely removed gender. It is not out of the realm of possibility.

    As someone who plays Animal Crossing, I hate that they refer me to they. I wish they kept female/male genders. What's funny, the english version is the only one that got rid off the female/male pronouns. It's so silly.

    Wow I didnt know this...thanks for sharing. :/
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  • GirlFromIpanemaGirlFromIpanema Posts: 843 Member
    Icewolf wrote: »
    Sindocat wrote: »
    Of course it will be an option. If they were going to make it a one-size-for-all approach, it would be done.

    I really don't like the narrative that people are being forced into playing "that way". You aren't and you won't be,

    What will happen is that some others, who have never been able to play that way will be.

    Also, singular "they" is older in grammatical usage than singular "you". Or dost thou still insist upon the second person singular pronouns, "thou, thee, thy, thine" when addressing an individual as well?

    Please stop using grammar to cover for rudeness and bigotry.

    Look at games like animal crossing that have completely removed gender. It is not out of the realm of possibility.

    As someone who plays Animal Crossing, I hate that they refer me to they. I wish they kept female/male genders. What's funny, the english version is the only one that got rid off the female/male pronouns. It's so silly.

    Wow I didnt know this...thanks for sharing. :/

    I didn't either. Is this only in the newer game for the Switch? I have the older games on the DS and they figure out whether you are a girl or boy depending on if you say you think your name is "cute" or "burley". I always liked this but can see how it could feel problematic for some. Adding another option is always better than removing options all together, though, and I don't think EA will go down that route. It would be nice if they could jump in and confirm which direction they are going in, as some Simmers seem to be getting (understandably) anxious.
  • SimfuncrunchSimfuncrunch Posts: 513 Member
    Icewolf wrote: »
    Sindocat wrote: »
    Of course it will be an option. If they were going to make it a one-size-for-all approach, it would be done.

    I really don't like the narrative that people are being forced into playing "that way". You aren't and you won't be,

    What will happen is that some others, who have never been able to play that way will be.

    Also, singular "they" is older in grammatical usage than singular "you". Or dost thou still insist upon the second person singular pronouns, "thou, thee, thy, thine" when addressing an individual as well?

    Please stop using grammar to cover for rudeness and bigotry.

    Look at games like animal crossing that have completely removed gender. It is not out of the realm of possibility.

    As someone who plays Animal Crossing, I hate that they refer me to they. I wish they kept female/male genders. What's funny, the english version is the only one that got rid off the female/male pronouns. It's so silly.

    Wow I didnt know this...thanks for sharing. :/

    I didn't either. Is this only in the newer game for the Switch? I have the older games on the DS and they figure out whether you are a girl or boy depending on if you say you think your name is "cute" or "burley". I always liked this but can see how it could feel problematic for some. Adding another option is always better than removing options all together, though, and I don't think EA will go down that route. It would be nice if they could jump in and confirm which direction they are going in, as some Simmers seem to be getting (understandably) anxious.

    Yes, this is in the latest Animal Crossing: New Horizons. There is no setting for a player to specify their character's gender or pronouns, and villagers do refer to player characters as they/them. There are two "styles" for the player's avatar that suggest masculine vs feminine, but you can change appearance freely at any time, and clothing and accessories are not listed by gender.

    However, all this is in Animal Crossing, not The Sims. Unless there's some planned crossover happening, I wouldn't assume that Maxis/Electronic Arts is going to make changes in the Sims based on what Nintendo is doing in their own games.

  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    2. Are they going to make all of this optional (because they have already wiped out he/she in many of the texts that popup in more recent packs.

    No. They haven't. You're exaggerating again. That one example someone was able to come up with was a reference to a trait. Not gender.
    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/988368/why-wasnt-there-a-mention-about-this-pronoun-changes/p2
    You should remember as you started the thread.

    Izzy had a Eureka Moment! Being a Genius, this gave them a boost to one of their more practiced skills.

    The game doesn't distinguish whether the genius is he/him or she/her so they used them/their in this instance. It wasn't a nod to pronoun correctness.
    They have been removing gendered pronouns for a while now. I don‘t understand why you‘re acting obtuse. There are posts about this issue on Answers HQ. The Sim Gurus act like this was a mistake but funny how this issue only popped up when they started jumping on the pronouns bandwagon.


    xCcEzN3.png

    https://answers.ea.com/t5/Bug-Reports/Sims-being-given-wrong-pronouns-in-new-pop-ups/td-p/10379101

    @dearie_blossom thank you so much for posting that. Forgive me for being obtuse and not noticing it in my game.

    Then I guess I didn't exaggerate after all did I.

    I'll let you know once I find more examples. 😄

    LOL, then I guess I don't get an apology until then.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
  • simgirl1010simgirl1010 Posts: 35,708 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    LOL, then I guess I don't get an apology until then.

    @Cinebar I do apologize for saying you exaggerated. Especially without having done my own research. Which is ongoing.
  • SERVERFRASERVERFRA Posts: 7,108 Member
    I remember watching movies/tv shows about 30 years ago where they would show Irish &/or Scottish people say to other people,
    "It's themselves". The pronoun never ever meant a person's romance reference or a change in identication. It was only to greet people.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    LOL, then I guess I don't get an apology until then.

    @Cinebar I do apologize for saying you exaggerated. Especially without having done my own research. Which is ongoing.

    Hey, Thank you! Have a great day!
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
  • FreezerBunnyCowplantFreezerBunnyCowplant Posts: 3,957 Member
    edited December 2021
    I hope they take their time, because gender neutral they/them pronouns don‘t exist in many languages other than English. That‘s a confusing thing you learn once you start learning English as a non native speaker. It simply doesn‘t work in many languages so I hope they don‘t rush it and ruin the experience for players who (for example) play in German or Spanish.
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  • babajaynebabajayne Posts: 1,866 Member
    edited December 2021
    From the Neighborhood Stories update
    dDByTFp.png
  • Chicklet453681Chicklet453681 Posts: 2,431 Member
    Icewolf wrote: »
    babajayne wrote: »
    From the Neighborhood Stories update
    dDByTFp.png

    Seems like they sneaked in they/them pronouns in every neighbour story message that I've seen. Ugh, I hate it. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually want to replace every gendered pronoun with they/them in the future. Make the game inclusive to the few people who use other pronouns by excluding the rest of the world. Seems legit.

    Where is the best place to give feedback about stuff like this?

    I noticed that too. I honestly think that's the direction they will take.
  • GirlFromIpanemaGirlFromIpanema Posts: 843 Member
    This is a shame, I have to admit that I had more faith in them than this.
    Removing gendered pronouns and replacing them with neutral ones isn't inclusive; it's lazy and tone deaf.

    Those who use traditional gendered pronouns are happy about the addition of neutral pronouns, and those who prefer neutral pronouns are not advocating for the erasure of gendered ones.
  • dearie_blossomdearie_blossom Posts: 707 Member
    Icewolf wrote: »
    Sindocat wrote: »
    Of course it will be an option. If they were going to make it a one-size-for-all approach, it would be done.

    I really don't like the narrative that people are being forced into playing "that way". You aren't and you won't be,

    What will happen is that some others, who have never been able to play that way will be.

    Also, singular "they" is older in grammatical usage than singular "you". Or dost thou still insist upon the second person singular pronouns, "thou, thee, thy, thine" when addressing an individual as well?

    Please stop using grammar to cover for rudeness and bigotry.

    Look at games like animal crossing that have completely removed gender. It is not out of the realm of possibility.

    As someone who plays Animal Crossing, I hate that they refer me to they. I wish they kept female/male genders. What's funny, the english version is the only one that got rid off the female/male pronouns. It's so silly.

    This is interesting. I don‘t play ACNH so I didn‘t know about this. I just looked up a German let‘s play and as you said that kept it female and male.

    N7KqvsW.jpg

    Bewohner = male resident
    Bewohnerin = female resident
  • GordyGordy Posts: 3,015 Member
    Tbh I don't particularly care too much. The game already hides gender for the most part - so many gender-neutral pronouns are in use, you can dress your sim however you want, I don't think their gender even is even mentioned outside of a sign in CAS and maaaybe on a sim profile? Even notifications, the biggest way to even remind someone of a sim's gender identity, almost always uses gender-neutral pronouns. So a pronoun update seems pointless when pronouns are already hidden and gender is meaningless. There's no gameplay change, there's no immersive change, you won't even notice it most of the time. What do you even get out of it at this point?

    But if they start using proper pronouns going forward, so you can actually see them and get some use out of them, that'd be good. It'd be inclusive and add immersion on top of it.

    If they just stick to they/them stuff for notifications and moodlets though, then personal bios would have been a way better addition In past games, much of a sim's personality and story was told through their bios. You could write about your sim's personal pronouns and much more, and that'd be more visible.
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  • logionlogion Posts: 4,712 Member
    edited December 2021
    Icewolf wrote: »
    babajayne wrote: »
    From the Neighborhood Stories update
    dDByTFp.png

    Seems like they sneaked in they/them pronouns in every neighbour story message that I've seen. Ugh, I hate it. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually want to replace every gendered pronoun with they/them in the future. Make the game inclusive to the few people who use other pronouns by excluding the rest of the world. Seems legit.

    Where is the best place to give feedback about stuff like this?

    These forums probably. Maybe Answer HQ but it is not really meant for feedback regarding the direction of the game. Although I have seen reports of design decisions like the constant "A-ha" autonomy reactions that sims are doing in the game (which is a design decision, not a bug) and they did patch that.

    I agree, the game just saying "they" in this context doesn't really work for me. It should be what Liberty Lee identifies herself as, not a gender neutral pronoun. So unless you went into CAS and changed her so she identifies as gender neutral I think the game should say he/she.

    They should add options for us, not take away them.
  • Lulu29Lulu29 Posts: 171 Member
    I hope they don't just change every pronoun text to non-binary. My played sims are always he/him or she/her.

    I'm concerned because the recent packs had some of the text already non-gendered which irritates me, because to me "they/them" is referring to a group of people, not a single person.

    I have no problem with it being added to the game for those that want it, but I don't want to be forced to ONLY having non-gendered pronouns.

    Hopefully EA will be "inclusive" to EVERYONE.

    I agree with this. I personally don't use pronouns in real life and therefore don't play my game that way. Fair play to those who do and I'm glad that this is coming for them. I'd like to see it become optional though when it does come in game.
  • SimfuncrunchSimfuncrunch Posts: 513 Member
    edited December 2021
    Lulu29 wrote: »
    I hope they don't just change every pronoun text to non-binary. My played sims are always he/him or she/her.

    I'm concerned because the recent packs had some of the text already non-gendered which irritates me, because to me "they/them" is referring to a group of people, not a single person.

    I have no problem with it being added to the game for those that want it, but I don't want to be forced to ONLY having non-gendered pronouns.

    Hopefully EA will be "inclusive" to EVERYONE.

    I agree with this. I personally don't use pronouns in real life and therefore don't play my game that way. Fair play to those who do and I'm glad that this is coming for them. I'd like to see it become optional though when it does come in game.

    Wait, what do you mean you "personally don't use pronouns in real life"? You just used the pronouns "I", "them", and "it" in your comment. You don't use the pronouns "she", "he", or "you"?
  • StrawberryYogurtStrawberryYogurt Posts: 2,799 Member
    CK213 wrote: »
    I find myself annoyed when reading these new text dialogue pop ups.
    More for the fact that they speaking in a plural form instead of singular and that it feels like any sims gender is in doubt.

    I bought this game for entertainment not social change.
    I'm starting to get fed up with entertainment being hijacked for social and political purposes.

    I really think thats the direction going forward and theyre going to insist on it. Which im assuming is the way TS5 is going as well. I wont be purchasing if it continues that way. Sims really need competition. In the meantime im finding other games to play because this aint it
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  • TriplisTriplis Posts: 3,048 Member
    Icewolf wrote: »
    Seems like they sneaked in they/them pronouns in every neighbour story message that I've seen. Ugh, I hate it. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually want to replace every gendered pronoun with they/them in the future. Make the game inclusive to the few people who use other pronouns by excluding the rest of the world. Seems legit.

    Where is the best place to give feedback about stuff like this?

    This is a ludicrous assumption. Most of the game's text is and always has been he/she with a text replacement system to automatically fill in which one it is. They do a few "theys" and your conclusion is they want to get rid of any distinctions. Nonbinary people haven't been represented in the game's pronoun design this entire time. Also, using something "neutral" like they/them when you don't know is not the same as representing nonbinary people directly with a pronoun choice, it's just avoiding misgendering people by jumping to conclusions. In other words, what you're saying doesn't even make sense. Making it all they/them wouldn't be inclusive for anyone, it would be unspecified for everyone and obviously not what people want for representation. People want the distinctions.
    CK213 wrote: »
    I find myself annoyed when reading these new text dialogue pop ups.
    More for the fact that they speaking in a plural form instead of singular and that it feels like any sims gender is in doubt.

    I bought this game for entertainment not social change.
    I'm starting to get fed up with entertainment being hijacked for social and political purposes.
    They has had singular use since the 1300s.

    Entertainment is inseparable from social and political purposes and meaning. It arises from it and is influenced by it, there's no getting away from that. It's just corporate marketing tries very hard to do things in a way that can be perceived like they are rising above because they are afraid of losing customers, which maybe confuses some people into thinking the two can actually ever be separated.

    Not handling they/them as a pronoun identifier from the start is a perfect example of that. The idea that they may be considering it now and that bothers you just tells me what your politics are, they were never neutral about it and neither are you.
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  • comicsforlifecomicsforlife Posts: 9,585 Member
    Entertainment is inseparable from social and political purposes
    even if thats true which I don't think it is it doesn't make it any less crap when people bring politics in to things
    Entertainment is suppose to help you forget about your troubles not remind you of them at all times.
    I want all politics out of my Entertainment we aren't even allowed to talk about political things on here because people start fighting
    I don't think someone wanting to be called something else should be considered political if you want to be called they then fine
    but I don't want to be called that none of this should be an issue.
    more for sim kids and more drama please
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