@DivaDoodle ... I am pretty sure @AlexaKry could shed better light on things, but there may be something you are overlooking.
You mentioned where there were no 'red minus' signs for Tyler when Stella and Thore came out with their relationship.
You also mentioned that Stella may have been playing a game, or trying to make Tyler Jealous.
There is a Lifetime Reward in game for 'No Jealousy', and there is a real implication to that.
Cheating is a momentary weakness, and any objection to it, doesn't have to be Jealousy.
Cheating can be apologized, accepted, and forgiven on its own terms.
However, when you remove Jealousy, Cheating is different matter.
As mentioned, Cheating is momentary, and driven by petty Desires.
When you remove the Desires, it becomes Betrayal ...
And that is not so easily Forgiven, because it is not simple Weakness, as much as a Character Flaw.
Perhaps (I don't know because I am not the author) ...
Tyler's response is not common because he views the entire event, and resulting conditions, outside the purview of petty Jealousy.
Whatever it may be for Stella, my interpretation has been, that it has never been a 'Game' for Tyler.
He spends a lot of time alone, in my interpretation, because he is wrestling with his own Demons ...
And not so much interested in fixing other People (Sims).
He wants to be Good, viewed well by others, but he is often just struggling, and a victim of his own poor choices.
Of course my interpretation could be entirely wrong, but it is obvious that I have viewed things differently.
I am not defending Tyler. nor bashing other characters, as much as I am trying to understand him.
In any case ... Happy Simming!
@BlackSand Oh thank you for sharing your thoughts! That is really interesting! I never thought about that LTR!
Please help me understand, if cheating isn't instigated by desire then what powers it? I am way out of my realm here, I have always thought it would be desire with an attempt to get what one is missing in their main relationship, love, kindness, companionship.
Thore is so easy to understand. he is fallen in love, wants to woo, and these feelings are stronger than maintaining allegiance with his own brother. I don't approve but at least I understand it.
Stella I think is doing the two things, getting what is lacking and perhaps trying to evoke a jealousy to try to 'get him to come back' , like a game, or just like her thinking that having another baby would 'get him back to her.' she is full of foolish ideas. But I understand it if that is the case, and have seen it often enough.
No I never thought Tyler would play a game at all, and I never thought that he thought it was a game, either.
Tyler's sickness and this awful darkness in the poor guy, makes him act so foreign to me, that I am utterly at loss trying to understand him and his actions. I've never known a person like him is probably why.
Every time I read that section of the story, I come up with a new clue, and mind set, or see something I didn't remember seeing before in the pics. and it sparks new questions!
Poor Alexa! I'm so glad she likes talking about it in detail! It is just such a good story!!!
Again thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts! I appreciate it!
@DivaDoodle ... Sorry I wasn't exactly clear about that.
When I mentioned taking Desire and Jealousy out of Cheating, I was referring to Tyler's point of view, and not Stella or Thore.
Tyler didn't desire to Cheat, may not have been Jealous, and some people are more analytical than emotional.
Where Stella and Thore have their reasons, those reasons or actions, are not bound to Tyler.
He doesn't have to understand why Thore or Stella cheated, in either case it could be more of a Betrayal than just Cheating.
For instance, Tyler might not care who Stella slept with, or why,
more than he cares about the fact that she actually broke the seal on their Covenant.
Whatever reason or justification Stella may imagine or engage upon,
she took up her problem and her possible solution with Thore, and not Tyler.
I don't understand why Stella would possibly want Tyler to "Come Back" ...
When she was so dissatisfied, and unable to communicate her desires with Tyler, that she slept with another man to start with.
That makes no sense to me at all ...
I understand what you trying to say and express, but there is no excuse for Stella's actions, where there may still be a reason for them.
Tyler is not in any way obligated to entertain or endure the nonsense of someone he cannot trust.
When it comes to what Stella and Thore did ... They are at fault for that.
Neither of them felt compelled to express their concerns with their husband. or their brother. prior to jumping in the sack together.
That's not Tyler's fault ... Even though he could have been more involved and engaged with Stella.
And in any case, I am not trying to correct the record on anything, and just expressing the way I looked at it.
I don't know exactly what Alexa was expressing while writing, and it is just the way it comes across to me.
Thanks for sharing your ideas and thoughts. Happy Simming!
Ooohkay, I think I have to step in to avoid too many speculations.
Instead of going through all your comments sentence for sentence @DivaDoodle and @BlackSand I just give an overall comment of Tyler, Thore and Stella´s behavior.
Because we will see Stella later on I can´t say too many about why she wanted/wants Tyler back so desperately, you´ll have to wait until this chapter is written.
Ok, to Thore: he was not even aware that he hurted Tyler with his actions. He just saw his needs and wanted to fullfill them. He didn´t think one bit about the consequences.
Maybe he thought that Tyler didn´t mind that he flirted with his wife, because at first Tyler didn´t even say a word to him that he didn´t want Thore to flirt with his wife. So Thore thought that he was doing nothing wrong.
He is very selfish and egoistic sometimes and because he always got everything he wanted in the past by his dads he thought that he had the right to do whatever he wanted.
Remember that Thore and Seth were sent to Roaring Heights by Haldir to look after the family business there? That was because Haldir and Travis saw that their son had to learn some humility and that he had to stand by his family.
But he didn´t learn so much and when he came back he just went on with his affair.
Was he in love with Stella? He didn´t even know, but he liked to woohoo with her, that´s for sure.
Only when Travis intervened and told him that he had betrayed his brother and that he (Travis) wouldn´t accept this behavior anymore and that he (Thore) was shortly before getting kicked out of the house and stopped being paid for/getting no more money from his dads, then Thore began to think about his actions and because he loved the money more than Stella, he stopped the affair and apologized to Tyler.
At that time he didn´t even understand how much he had hurted his brother and his dads with his behavior. Only when Tyler ran away completely he began to think that he was doing wrong to Tyler and THEN they could get a new relationship to each other, although Tyler doesn´t trust Thore one bit...
To Stella: yes, she was lonely in their marriage, even before Tyler was bewitched and cheated her with Big Boobs Lady.
Tyler is a loner and doesn´t talk much about problems, worries and hardships or about (god forbid!) feelings.
So of course it is hard to lead a good relationship with someone like this because the other part of the couple has always have to do this work cause the loner won´t talk about problems, a loner just thinks about that said problems on his/her own without talking much with his/her partner. The other has to guess sometimes about how the partner feels.
In the first years of their marriage (more than 30 years!!! stay in mind that their oldest son is over 30, married himself and having a few kids!) Tyler talked about everything with Stella, when she wanted him to do so, but that changed over the last years, way before he cheated on her with BBL.
But he couldn´t stand her behavior of wanting to talk out everything. (remember when she wanted Taius to get married and Tyler thought that she was like a pitbull?)
So because he was a bit annoyed by her forcing him to talk about problems which for him weren´t problems he then stopped talking at all. He has deep thoughts (genius!) but isn´t able/doesn´t want to formulate them loud and Stella lost her patience with him.
She wanted him to tell his thoughts and wanted that desperately, so she always tried to force him to tell her.
She didn´t notice that he wasn´t able to do so or/and that he didn´t want to say something.
At some point in their marriage she was fed up by his behavior, not noticing that he COULDN´T talk, but thinking he WOULDN`T talk to her.
She frogot that he behaved like that even before they married. He even told her before they´ve married that he wasn´t able to talk about feelings, she ingnored that and thought that she could change him during the years. But instead of changing him to be able to talk to her more she pushed him to a corner where he didn´t want to talk to her at all.
She didn´t notice that because she wanted him to talk she only achieved the opposite.
So both of them drifted apart.
She thought of how she could get him back, because she still loved him so she came to the conclusion that a baby could bring him back to her because he was so lovingly with her when she was pregnant once.
But when he didn´t respond to her and her pregnancy as she planned she began to get very angry and couldn´t see that Tyler had severe problems.
So it was her revenge to him when the smudgy vampire called for ransom and she denied it. She was a bit too harsh, maybe because of her pregnancy hormones.
And because he didn´t react to her at all, she turned to someone who did, Thore.
Maybe she wanted to be seen as a woman again, maybe she was just lonely and Thore gave her warmth and company or maby she just wanted to woohoo, because she and Tyler didn´t woohoo anymore, well, I don´t know...
To Tyler: from his teenage years on he had depresssions. He suffered from disthymic disorder, that means that he will have this depressions lifelong. Moreover this depression comes in waves, it lasts up to two years where the patient suffers from bad thoughts, awful feelings or no feelings at all. Then the depression vanishes for some time before it comes back again.
Through his worst times Haldir could brew a potion which helped Tyler to get through the days and live a moderately good life.
Stelly knew that but during all their years together she seemed to have lost her patience with him because she couldn´t see/understand that he has to go through that long episodes of despair again and again. She could never understand why he didn´t just pull himself together and fight the depression. She didn´t understand that he was ill, she just thought that he had a mood swing and didn´t want to get better.
But Tyler pulled himself together soooo much! He managed to get up in the morning and to be there for his boys and to be there for her (which was getting less and less after he could see that she didn´t have any understanding for his situation).
But after so many years of returning depressions he couldn´t stand her and her lack of appreciation anymore so he closed himself to her even more.
Unfortunately he didn´t get professional help, he always denied it when his dads wanted him to go to a psycologist.
So when he saw Stella flirting with his brother he wasn´t bothered at first, because he didn´t mind anymore what she was doing. He stopped feeling something (for her) a long time ago.
But he got angry because he couldn´t accept that his brother betrayed him, that was something he could clearly feel that this was false.
Furthermore the dark worked in him and the incomplete suppressed memories made him more and more desperate. And because he couldn´t talk about anything what went through his mind and what went on he ran/rode away instead of talking with Stella about their relationship.
At the time she began flirting with Thore Tyler didn´t feel much other than fear and desperation so when he saw them flirting he didn´t react to that, because he couldn´t feel anything on the one side and on the other side he didn´t mind anymore.
I am sorry that I didn´t mention the depressions of Tyler earlier. It wasn´t planned by me that this story would have made such a turn in it´s narrative structure. And neither did I thought that I would write this story still!
All the trouble with Thore and Stella wasn´t planned by me, it was the game which changed the story!
I just went with what the game gave me and adjusted my story to it.
So when the story changed I didn´t know where it would lead me to, which lead to the lack of knowledge about Tyler and his depressions and about Stella and her feelings.
At that time I didn´t even know if they would come together again...
To the gameplay: Tyler has the No Jealousy reward, Stella not. He got the read minus everytime she flirted with Thore in his sight. The picture of Thore and Stella flirting in front of Travis where Travis reacts to them: they´ve got the red minus, all of them, but I didn´t post that picture. It didn´t fit in the story....
But: he always wanted to talk to her about this happenings and he always forgave her, not very pleased but he forgave her.
But when she flirted with Thore at the engagement party of their son Taius he was fed up, especially because they woohooed before they´ve flirted in front of him.... (see their clothes? They wear everyday outfits, while all the other guests, including Tyler, Haldir and Travis wear evening dresses...) He just had enough and divorced from her ON HIS OWN! I´ve never had an active Sim to do this ON HIS/HER OWN!!!!
I couldn´t do anything about that, I was just sitting in front of my screen and watch him doing that, I couldn´t even cancel his action! And they weren´t in the red in their relationship either before he divorced!!!!
He was just fed up with her.
All I could do was thinking of deleting this game session or if I would work with it...
Up to this days he doesn´t talk to Thore on its own, he just talks to Thore when his brother initiates the talk... He can´t get over Thore`s betrayal. It hurts him too much.
So: there is a difference between gameplay and my story. I play the game, take pictures and go losely with the story the game provides. Furthermore I take thousands of pictures and search for the "perfect" picture which could be posted to illustrate the story.
The only time the game couldn´t provide me with pictures was when I wrote about the ceremonies, there I had to use Pose Player to show what happened.
But normally I have taken enough pictures to get THEE picture which shows exactly what I am writing about.
At the beginning of my story it was exactly the opposite. I took pictures and posted what the pictures showed.
I hope I could provide a little bit of clarity and didn´t confuse everybody even more, if so, feel free to ask me where I should provide more clarity! I konw that my style of writing and explaining could be confusing sometimes.
I can say that I have always liked Stella and Tyler, just always thought they were little more than a Train Wreck waiting to happen ...
Like I mention the first time, I don't think they are good together, but that's just me.
I didn't really think that the deal with Thore was all that big of a deal, with one exception.
That exception would be the case that it was when Tyler thought things just weren't going to work themselves out with Stella.
But the story isn't dependent on that alone, the children and extended family seem to work things out.
Again ... That is probably because we handle stories differently in Sims 3.
I usually build props and sets, and use the characters to tell the story.
I don't usually let the Game tell the story.
I don't do that, because the first and only time I let the Game tell the story, I didn't like the story.
I had a young couple with nothing, get married, build a house and then a family.
Not long after she had a baby, he cheated on her with a Townie.
She kicked him out, sold his truck and tore the house down ...
There wasn't much to the story after that.
@AlexaKry such excellent explanations! Just exactly what I was looking for and answering questions! I am so glad I was on the right tract of what I had been thinking about some of the situations and feelings! And so glad to know the truth of the story and your feelings of what happened when I was incorrect!
I like the sims to lead me and tell the story too! Just sometimes I have a past recollection I want to inject in their story for a change! hahaha so that's why I like story progression off although even when it is off I do see the game trying to influence things like on love day there is more flirting going on than normal silly game! I did have a divorce automatically happen before where I couldn't click if off either!😯 And No one had even cheated or done Anything and there was no reason for it at All! What?!?! sooo crazy!
This is just great clarification and I'm a happy camper now! thank you my friend!
@BlackSand : Yes, you are right, train wreck, that hits the bull´s eye!
Tyler and Stella should have parted much earlier. But: if they did they wouldn´t get another son, and I won´t miss Samuel at all.
Hm, I think that Thore wasn´t right in anything he had done to/with Stella, no matter if Tyler did or didn´t mind. At that time he and Stella were married, so Thore should have stay away from her.
Well, I can understand why you tell stories differently, but the story of your Sim tearing down the house in the end has soooo much potential!!!!
@DivaDoodle : Great that I could help to understand Tyler better! But: You don´t have to like him just because I do so and I try to write his story from a very friendly perspective (for him).
If you still feel that he is an a§§ because he yelled at Sif and ran away from her and do the same mistakes to her than he did to Stella: this is fully ok!
I mean: he yelled at her and made her feel very, very sad, no wonder you didn´t like him anymore. It was my writing which made you do so, so I have to improve my writing to help you and the other 2 or 3 readers to understand everyone better!
Yes, when the divorce happened (well, their real divorce came a bit later, in front of a judge of course ) I just forget to reset them via DebugEnabler, I was just in shock about what Tyler did there, because all the times before, when Stella and Thore interacted lovingly in front of him he was a bit angry at Stella but she apologized and their relationship bar always was over 90!
At that party it ws still over 90!
I don´t know what made him do that!
After I´ve saved I couldn´t decide what to do for a few days....
Alfarin knocked hard on Tyler´s door.
He still could see Sif´s tearful big red eyes, her despair and vulnerability to how his best friend has behaved towards her.
He had never seen his sister in such a horrible state, not even before she had to die (what she didn´t tell him, he was still angry at her and Haldir for that plan!).
He was mad at Tyler, how could he treat her so bad? How could he yell at such a sweet, loving and caring girl. How could he yell at the woman who died for him? And moreover, how could she yell at the only woman who really loved him?
The door opened and Tyler looked at him, an angry look at his face.
Tyler stepped back into the room and let Alfarin in.
Alfarin began to talk calmly to him, well knowing that his friend could explode in seconds these days.
"You know, I have talked with Sif and she told me that you were running the whole day today and I wondered if your feet didn´t hurt, you know, because I know that last time you´ve told me that they felt as if you were wearing wood boxes at your feet. Did that change?" Alfarin thought it would help break the ice between them if he made a little joke.
Because he didn´t get an answer he tried to change his strategy.
"You know, I have talked to Sif and she was a little sad that you were jogging so long today."
"You know a lot, it seems," came Tyler´s harsh answer. "If so, why do you bother me with things we all already know?"
He tried to turn around, wanting to tell his friend with his silence that their talk was over.
This was enough for the normally so calm and friendly Alfarin.
"She cried, you made a fool of her, this sweet girl was crying because of you! I want you to stop hurting her!"
"I want you to know-"Alfarin began.
"So again, you know a lot," Tyler said with his cool and sharp voice. "And do you KNOW (he literally spat out that word) that I don´t care what she or you or whoever feels? Not A BIT? I have-"
"You a§§hole!" Alfarin was mad at his friend, how could he say that?? "She loves you, she even died for you and you treat her-"
"Oh, now you appeal to my caveman instincts, hm? I should be thankful for everything she had done for me? Well, then I tell you something new, my friend, I DIDN`T ASK FOR THAT! And I didn´t ask her for her love! We don´t live in a dime novel where the protagonists get each other in the end! She has to-"
"What does she have to? Huh? What does she have to do to please you? Forget you? After you´ve told her that you want her to move to Moonlight Falls? That you have bought a house for her and Samuel and yourself to live in? After you gave her hope that you would marry her? After you made so many promises to her? SHE DOESN`T OWE YOU NOTHING, MY DEAR FRIEND!" Alfarin was 🐸🐸🐸🐸. How could Tyler speak so derogatorily about his lovely twin sister?
"It would be the best if you apologized immediately to her, she doesn´t deserve ONE BAD THOUGHT FROM YOU! I want -no- I order you to apologize to her! I´ll brew you the potion you need and then I´ll leave you and if you didn´t manage to apologize to her then I´ll take her with me and you won´t see her ever again! This is what I tell you!" Alfarin looked full of anger at his friend.
And saw his hurted and frightened face.
"I am sorry, I didn´t want to yell at her or at you. I don´t know what happens to me- ach, it doesn´t matter, it´s better for her not to love me or involve with me."
Alfarin was still too angry to really understand what Tyler had said with his last sentence.
So he just accepted his friend´s apology. "It´s ok that you´ve apologized to me, but do it with her, she-"
"I would, could you let me alone now, please?" Tyler said with a thin voice. He turned his back on his friend and stepped away from him, Alfarin shouldn´t see how lonely and despaired he looked.
Alfarin went upstairs, still very churned up inside. He wanted to brew the potion Haldir wanted him to brew for Tyler and he wanted to look after the final healing potion which still needed some days to be ready to be given.
He should have considered to do something easier to do than brewing a potion where he had to concentrate on the right ingredients and their amount.
Good for all of them that Haldir and Travis arrived at Aurora Skies in the early evening, hopefully they could help them all to get along together again.
@AlexaKry I knew Alfarin would come to see Tyler. He loves his sister and I knew he would be her champion with Tyler.
It must have been hard for him knowing Tyler as he does.
I'm glad Alfarin continued to hang in there and try to break through to Tyler.
And he did...but how much. I guess we will see in the next update! You write it so well between the two of them.
I still want to smack Tyler for hurting Sif. But, I know he wants to smack himself since he doesn't feel he truly deserves her.
He pushes away all those who love him and want to help him. He can then justify his own thoughts about himself being unlovable, unworthy of them. Yeah, I want to kick his tush too! Really and truly he is very selfish with his depression and uses it as an excuse to not have to deal with reality and his emotions. If he really wanted to get better he would get help, take his potions and grovel to Sif, Alfarin, all his kids, his parents and even Stella. (as much as I dislike her) Instead he runs, yells and makes himself hateful. I find what little sympathy I had for him dwindling daily. I wanted a happy ending for him because I liked him. I'm losing that desire. Saying sorry to Alfarin in that way is not really saying sorry. He did it to make him go away, so he could be alone with his thoughts and it worked. If he had been truly sorry, he would have rushed out of the room and found Sif and begged her forgiveness.
Love the pics of Alfarin and the stinky potion he made! Perhaps he should make Tyler drink the stinky potion to shock his brain back in gear.
Yaah, Haldir and Travis are arriving. I dunno what you have planned but I'm ready to read it now!
Snickering at the outtakes!!
@AlexaKry Thank you! I am reserving judgement! since more and more is made so clear now I think I won't judge anymore but just I will just sit back and enjoy the story and let it be!
Oh how interesting, so Alfie was mad at Sif and Haldir for that plan of Sif to die. well that is natural he loves his sister very much and probably didn't know she could un-die! I would be So mad at my sisters if they died for someone too!
What an ordeal! It's so very hard to be mad at your best friend! (PS I love the pattern on his shirt!)
''"You know, I have talked with Sif and she told me that you were running the whole day today and I wondered if your feet didn´t hurt, you know, because I know that last time you´ve told me that they felt as if you were wearing wood boxes at your feet. Did that change?" Alfarin thought it would help break the ice between them if he made a little joke. '' omg god I Loved Alfarin saying this!
OMG such a huge fight between the best friends! HUGE!!! I never thought in all my born days that I would see Alfie that Mad! I love him even more (if that is even possible) for sticking up for Sif! The lovely Goddess Sif well in my opinion!
But now! 😮wow, such a turn around in Tyler, it is like Alfie yelling at him broke for a moment this awful---I don't know what to call it, it seems almost like a Possession of his being! Something that overcomes and over takes the normal Tyler and this dark demon like thing invades his personality and spews vile meanness! And Alfie broke that! for a moment at least!
And Tyler apologized!?! Wow! a miracle!
Did that hurt their relationship having them be so mad at each other? Did the apology help to mend it back some? I know it's so tricky to make them do the mean thing and remain close!
@AlexaKry I have to go back to page 36 to read and make comments...
"They´ve got 13 kids during the last centuries" <-- How many years did pass since Travis and Haldir got married did you say?? :P
"But their youngest and their second youngest kids (Thore and Tyler)" <-- Its always the youngest ones that end up being the troublemakers isn't it.
Shame on you Thore for stealing your brothers wife!
Hmm, Fortress Rock.. is it a hotel or a brothel? Why do you use quotation marks around "hotel"? :P
Hmm, strange dreams Tyler is having. Don't know what that's supposed to mean...
Its understandable that the relationship with Tyler and his wife would come to and end...
I like the white interior you have of houses. I think it looks great. Like a simplistic and modern style, sort of.
"(...) Tyler rowed his little boat into the sea and all he wanted to do was jump into the water and let it pull him down into the deep." <-- Whoa, there! Don't do that....
Now that's a... very interesting looking build. o_O
"Furthermore it was winter and there were many heavy storms which could have blown away Tyler without somebody knowing." <-- I know it is not right laughing here, but the mental image of that sounded kind of funny. :P
Yeah, this King Stein is a j*** that is clear! He's got a nice castle, wife and daughter, though....
"At one of the consultations, where Tyler got hypnotized, he died." <-- Well, that was sudden. o_X
Oh, it wasn't being hypnotized directly that killed him , but rather this um... black dark thing.. whatever that can be.. He was killed by cosmos...
Fascinating, sounds believable about what could happened after someone dies.. wow, amazing that Sif actually was there to save him. o_O
Oooh, that is a great looking building. What is it, the Grim Manor?
Hahaha, are you kidding me? That looks like back problems for sure... :P
Well, turns out she is also bad an manipulative for luring Tyler into a trap and have him killed..
August 14 update
I think Tyler running is his way of dealing with problems. Sometimes one needs to run... . I think Sif doesn't need to worry. He is runnning, but not running away! Because he has already told her he wants to stay with her, and has planned their future...
In the beginning here I can understand Tyler more than Sif...
" ""Leave me alone, I´m not good for us," was the last what she could heard from him.
Then he ran away again. " <-- Ok, that's not quite a good thing to say.. Well, maybe she should worry...
I'm not 100 % sure what's going on, but I don't think Tyler is trying to hurt her or anything. Haldir is overreacting when he says he should kill him.
Ok, so he has a form of depression.
"And was shocked about his aggressive reaction. He yelled at her that she didn´t have to stick her nose into his business!" <-- Looks like he wasn't ready to talk just like that. Looks like the question came to fast from her...
August 24 update:
Again I don't think Tyler is trying to hurt her...
Umm, ok..
Quote: " "And do you KNOW (he literally spat out that word) that I don´t care what she or you or whoever feels? Not A BIT? I have-"" <-- Why does Tyler say this? Does he really not care? Maybe I have misunderstood him...
..but I think it is a good thing that Alfarin is brewing the potion, whatever it will do?
Haha, sticking his head through the wall to vomit, oops. :P
This is very good writing. Wish I could come up with something like this.
Comments
You mentioned where there were no 'red minus' signs for Tyler when Stella and Thore came out with their relationship.
You also mentioned that Stella may have been playing a game, or trying to make Tyler Jealous.
There is a Lifetime Reward in game for 'No Jealousy', and there is a real implication to that.
Cheating is a momentary weakness, and any objection to it, doesn't have to be Jealousy.
Cheating can be apologized, accepted, and forgiven on its own terms.
However, when you remove Jealousy, Cheating is different matter.
As mentioned, Cheating is momentary, and driven by petty Desires.
When you remove the Desires, it becomes Betrayal ...
And that is not so easily Forgiven, because it is not simple Weakness, as much as a Character Flaw.
Perhaps (I don't know because I am not the author) ...
Tyler's response is not common because he views the entire event, and resulting conditions, outside the purview of petty Jealousy.
Whatever it may be for Stella, my interpretation has been, that it has never been a 'Game' for Tyler.
He spends a lot of time alone, in my interpretation, because he is wrestling with his own Demons ...
And not so much interested in fixing other People (Sims).
He wants to be Good, viewed well by others, but he is often just struggling, and a victim of his own poor choices.
Of course my interpretation could be entirely wrong, but it is obvious that I have viewed things differently.
I am not defending Tyler. nor bashing other characters, as much as I am trying to understand him.
In any case ... Happy Simming!
.
@BlackSand Oh thank you for sharing your thoughts! That is really interesting! I never thought about that LTR!
Please help me understand, if cheating isn't instigated by desire then what powers it? I am way out of my realm here, I have always thought it would be desire with an attempt to get what one is missing in their main relationship, love, kindness, companionship.
Thore is so easy to understand. he is fallen in love, wants to woo, and these feelings are stronger than maintaining allegiance with his own brother. I don't approve but at least I understand it.
Stella I think is doing the two things, getting what is lacking and perhaps trying to evoke a jealousy to try to 'get him to come back' , like a game, or just like her thinking that having another baby would 'get him back to her.' she is full of foolish ideas. But I understand it if that is the case, and have seen it often enough.
No I never thought Tyler would play a game at all, and I never thought that he thought it was a game, either.
Tyler's sickness and this awful darkness in the poor guy, makes him act so foreign to me, that I am utterly at loss trying to understand him and his actions. I've never known a person like him is probably why.
Every time I read that section of the story, I come up with a new clue, and mind set, or see something I didn't remember seeing before in the pics. and it sparks new questions!
Poor Alexa!
Again thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts! I appreciate it!
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When I mentioned taking Desire and Jealousy out of Cheating, I was referring to Tyler's point of view, and not Stella or Thore.
Tyler didn't desire to Cheat, may not have been Jealous, and some people are more analytical than emotional.
Where Stella and Thore have their reasons, those reasons or actions, are not bound to Tyler.
He doesn't have to understand why Thore or Stella cheated, in either case it could be more of a Betrayal than just Cheating.
For instance, Tyler might not care who Stella slept with, or why,
more than he cares about the fact that she actually broke the seal on their Covenant.
Whatever reason or justification Stella may imagine or engage upon,
she took up her problem and her possible solution with Thore, and not Tyler.
I don't understand why Stella would possibly want Tyler to "Come Back" ...
When she was so dissatisfied, and unable to communicate her desires with Tyler, that she slept with another man to start with.
That makes no sense to me at all ...
I understand what you trying to say and express, but there is no excuse for Stella's actions, where there may still be a reason for them.
Tyler is not in any way obligated to entertain or endure the nonsense of someone he cannot trust.
When it comes to what Stella and Thore did ... They are at fault for that.
Neither of them felt compelled to express their concerns with their husband. or their brother. prior to jumping in the sack together.
That's not Tyler's fault ... Even though he could have been more involved and engaged with Stella.
And in any case, I am not trying to correct the record on anything, and just expressing the way I looked at it.
I don't know exactly what Alexa was expressing while writing, and it is just the way it comes across to me.
Thanks for sharing your ideas and thoughts.
Happy Simming!
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Instead of going through all your comments sentence for sentence @DivaDoodle and @BlackSand I just give an overall comment of Tyler, Thore and Stella´s behavior.
Because we will see Stella later on I can´t say too many about why she wanted/wants Tyler back so desperately, you´ll have to wait until this chapter is written.
Ok, to Thore: he was not even aware that he hurted Tyler with his actions. He just saw his needs and wanted to fullfill them. He didn´t think one bit about the consequences.
Maybe he thought that Tyler didn´t mind that he flirted with his wife, because at first Tyler didn´t even say a word to him that he didn´t want Thore to flirt with his wife. So Thore thought that he was doing nothing wrong.
He is very selfish and egoistic sometimes and because he always got everything he wanted in the past by his dads he thought that he had the right to do whatever he wanted.
Remember that Thore and Seth were sent to Roaring Heights by Haldir to look after the family business there? That was because Haldir and Travis saw that their son had to learn some humility and that he had to stand by his family.
But he didn´t learn so much and when he came back he just went on with his affair.
Was he in love with Stella? He didn´t even know, but he liked to woohoo with her, that´s for sure.
Only when Travis intervened and told him that he had betrayed his brother and that he (Travis) wouldn´t accept this behavior anymore and that he (Thore) was shortly before getting kicked out of the house and stopped being paid for/getting no more money from his dads, then Thore began to think about his actions and because he loved the money more than Stella, he stopped the affair and apologized to Tyler.
At that time he didn´t even understand how much he had hurted his brother and his dads with his behavior. Only when Tyler ran away completely he began to think that he was doing wrong to Tyler and THEN they could get a new relationship to each other, although Tyler doesn´t trust Thore one bit...
To Stella: yes, she was lonely in their marriage, even before Tyler was bewitched and cheated her with Big Boobs Lady.
Tyler is a loner and doesn´t talk much about problems, worries and hardships or about (god forbid!) feelings.
So of course it is hard to lead a good relationship with someone like this because the other part of the couple has always have to do this work cause the loner won´t talk about problems, a loner just thinks about that said problems on his/her own without talking much with his/her partner. The other has to guess sometimes about how the partner feels.
In the first years of their marriage (more than 30 years!!! stay in mind that their oldest son is over 30, married himself and having a few kids!) Tyler talked about everything with Stella, when she wanted him to do so, but that changed over the last years, way before he cheated on her with BBL.
But he couldn´t stand her behavior of wanting to talk out everything. (remember when she wanted Taius to get married and Tyler thought that she was like a pitbull?)
So because he was a bit annoyed by her forcing him to talk about problems which for him weren´t problems he then stopped talking at all. He has deep thoughts (genius!) but isn´t able/doesn´t want to formulate them loud and Stella lost her patience with him.
She wanted him to tell his thoughts and wanted that desperately, so she always tried to force him to tell her.
She didn´t notice that he wasn´t able to do so or/and that he didn´t want to say something.
At some point in their marriage she was fed up by his behavior, not noticing that he COULDN´T talk, but thinking he WOULDN`T talk to her.
She frogot that he behaved like that even before they married. He even told her before they´ve married that he wasn´t able to talk about feelings, she ingnored that and thought that she could change him during the years. But instead of changing him to be able to talk to her more she pushed him to a corner where he didn´t want to talk to her at all.
She didn´t notice that because she wanted him to talk she only achieved the opposite.
So both of them drifted apart.
She thought of how she could get him back, because she still loved him so she came to the conclusion that a baby could bring him back to her because he was so lovingly with her when she was pregnant once.
But when he didn´t respond to her and her pregnancy as she planned she began to get very angry and couldn´t see that Tyler had severe problems.
So it was her revenge to him when the smudgy vampire called for ransom and she denied it. She was a bit too harsh, maybe because of her pregnancy hormones.
And because he didn´t react to her at all, she turned to someone who did, Thore.
Maybe she wanted to be seen as a woman again, maybe she was just lonely and Thore gave her warmth and company or maby she just wanted to woohoo, because she and Tyler didn´t woohoo anymore, well, I don´t know...
To Tyler: from his teenage years on he had depresssions. He suffered from disthymic disorder, that means that he will have this depressions lifelong. Moreover this depression comes in waves, it lasts up to two years where the patient suffers from bad thoughts, awful feelings or no feelings at all. Then the depression vanishes for some time before it comes back again.
Through his worst times Haldir could brew a potion which helped Tyler to get through the days and live a moderately good life.
Stelly knew that but during all their years together she seemed to have lost her patience with him because she couldn´t see/understand that he has to go through that long episodes of despair again and again. She could never understand why he didn´t just pull himself together and fight the depression. She didn´t understand that he was ill, she just thought that he had a mood swing and didn´t want to get better.
But Tyler pulled himself together soooo much! He managed to get up in the morning and to be there for his boys and to be there for her (which was getting less and less after he could see that she didn´t have any understanding for his situation).
But after so many years of returning depressions he couldn´t stand her and her lack of appreciation anymore so he closed himself to her even more.
Unfortunately he didn´t get professional help, he always denied it when his dads wanted him to go to a psycologist.
So when he saw Stella flirting with his brother he wasn´t bothered at first, because he didn´t mind anymore what she was doing. He stopped feeling something (for her) a long time ago.
But he got angry because he couldn´t accept that his brother betrayed him, that was something he could clearly feel that this was false.
Furthermore the dark worked in him and the incomplete suppressed memories made him more and more desperate. And because he couldn´t talk about anything what went through his mind and what went on he ran/rode away instead of talking with Stella about their relationship.
At the time she began flirting with Thore Tyler didn´t feel much other than fear and desperation so when he saw them flirting he didn´t react to that, because he couldn´t feel anything on the one side and on the other side he didn´t mind anymore.
I am sorry that I didn´t mention the depressions of Tyler earlier. It wasn´t planned by me that this story would have made such a turn in it´s narrative structure. And neither did I thought that I would write this story still!
All the trouble with Thore and Stella wasn´t planned by me, it was the game which changed the story!
I just went with what the game gave me and adjusted my story to it.
So when the story changed I didn´t know where it would lead me to, which lead to the lack of knowledge about Tyler and his depressions and about Stella and her feelings.
At that time I didn´t even know if they would come together again...
To the gameplay: Tyler has the No Jealousy reward, Stella not. He got the read minus everytime she flirted with Thore in his sight. The picture of Thore and Stella flirting in front of Travis where Travis reacts to them: they´ve got the red minus, all of them, but I didn´t post that picture. It didn´t fit in the story....
But: he always wanted to talk to her about this happenings and he always forgave her, not very pleased but he forgave her.
But when she flirted with Thore at the engagement party of their son Taius he was fed up, especially because they woohooed before they´ve flirted in front of him.... (see their clothes? They wear everyday outfits, while all the other guests, including Tyler, Haldir and Travis wear evening dresses...) He just had enough and divorced from her ON HIS OWN! I´ve never had an active Sim to do this ON HIS/HER OWN!!!!
I couldn´t do anything about that, I was just sitting in front of my screen and watch him doing that, I couldn´t even cancel his action! And they weren´t in the red in their relationship either before he divorced!!!!
He was just fed up with her.
All I could do was thinking of deleting this game session or if I would work with it...
Up to this days he doesn´t talk to Thore on its own, he just talks to Thore when his brother initiates the talk... He can´t get over Thore`s betrayal. It hurts him too much.
So: there is a difference between gameplay and my story. I play the game, take pictures and go losely with the story the game provides. Furthermore I take thousands of pictures and search for the "perfect" picture which could be posted to illustrate the story.
The only time the game couldn´t provide me with pictures was when I wrote about the ceremonies, there I had to use Pose Player to show what happened.
But normally I have taken enough pictures to get THEE picture which shows exactly what I am writing about.
At the beginning of my story it was exactly the opposite. I took pictures and posted what the pictures showed.
I hope I could provide a little bit of clarity and didn´t confuse everybody even more, if so, feel free to ask me where I should provide more clarity! I konw that my style of writing and explaining could be confusing sometimes.
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/953447/streuner-a-cat-s-tale
I can say that I have always liked Stella and Tyler, just always thought they were little more than a Train Wreck waiting to happen ...
Like I mention the first time, I don't think they are good together, but that's just me.
I didn't really think that the deal with Thore was all that big of a deal, with one exception.
That exception would be the case that it was when Tyler thought things just weren't going to work themselves out with Stella.
But the story isn't dependent on that alone, the children and extended family seem to work things out.
Again ... That is probably because we handle stories differently in Sims 3.
I usually build props and sets, and use the characters to tell the story.
I don't usually let the Game tell the story.
I don't do that, because the first and only time I let the Game tell the story, I didn't like the story.
I had a young couple with nothing, get married, build a house and then a family.
Not long after she had a baby, he cheated on her with a Townie.
She kicked him out, sold his truck and tore the house down ...
There wasn't much to the story after that.
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@AlexaKry such excellent explanations! Just exactly what I was looking for and answering questions! I am so glad I was on the right tract of what I had been thinking about some of the situations and feelings! And so glad to know the truth of the story and your feelings of what happened when I was incorrect!
I like the sims to lead me and tell the story too! Just sometimes I have a past recollection I want to inject in their story for a change! hahaha so that's why I like story progression off although even when it is off I do see the game trying to influence things like on love day there is more flirting going on than normal
This is just great clarification and I'm a happy camper now!
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Tyler and Stella should have parted much earlier. But: if they did they wouldn´t get another son, and I won´t miss Samuel at all.
Hm, I think that Thore wasn´t right in anything he had done to/with Stella, no matter if Tyler did or didn´t mind. At that time he and Stella were married, so Thore should have stay away from her.
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/953447/streuner-a-cat-s-tale
If you still feel that he is an a§§ because he yelled at Sif and ran away from her and do the same mistakes to her than he did to Stella: this is fully ok!
I mean: he yelled at her and made her feel very, very sad, no wonder you didn´t like him anymore. It was my writing which made you do so, so I have to improve my writing to help you and the other 2 or 3 readers to understand everyone better!
Yes, when the divorce happened (well, their real divorce came a bit later, in front of a judge of course
At that party it ws still over 90!
I don´t know what made him do that!
After I´ve saved I couldn´t decide what to do for a few days....
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/953447/streuner-a-cat-s-tale
He still could see Sif´s tearful big red eyes, her despair and vulnerability to how his best friend has behaved towards her.
He had never seen his sister in such a horrible state, not even before she had to die (what she didn´t tell him, he was still angry at her and Haldir for that plan!).
He was mad at Tyler, how could he treat her so bad? How could he yell at such a sweet, loving and caring girl. How could he yell at the woman who died for him? And moreover, how could she yell at the only woman who really loved him?
The door opened and Tyler looked at him, an angry look at his face.
Tyler stepped back into the room and let Alfarin in.
Alfarin began to talk calmly to him, well knowing that his friend could explode in seconds these days.
"You know, I have talked with Sif and she told me that you were running the whole day today and I wondered if your feet didn´t hurt, you know, because I know that last time you´ve told me that they felt as if you were wearing wood boxes at your feet. Did that change?" Alfarin thought it would help break the ice between them if he made a little joke.
Because he didn´t get an answer he tried to change his strategy.
"You know, I have talked to Sif and she was a little sad that you were jogging so long today."
"You know a lot, it seems," came Tyler´s harsh answer. "If so, why do you bother me with things we all already know?"
He tried to turn around, wanting to tell his friend with his silence that their talk was over.
This was enough for the normally so calm and friendly Alfarin.
"She cried, you made a fool of her, this sweet girl was crying because of you! I want you to stop hurting her!"
"I want you to know-"Alfarin began.
"So again, you know a lot," Tyler said with his cool and sharp voice. "And do you KNOW (he literally spat out that word) that I don´t care what she or you or whoever feels? Not A BIT? I have-"
"You a§§hole!" Alfarin was mad at his friend, how could he say that?? "She loves you, she even died for you and you treat her-"
"Oh, now you appeal to my caveman instincts, hm? I should be thankful for everything she had done for me? Well, then I tell you something new, my friend, I DIDN`T ASK FOR THAT! And I didn´t ask her for her love! We don´t live in a dime novel where the protagonists get each other in the end! She has to-"
"What does she have to? Huh? What does she have to do to please you? Forget you? After you´ve told her that you want her to move to Moonlight Falls? That you have bought a house for her and Samuel and yourself to live in? After you gave her hope that you would marry her? After you made so many promises to her? SHE DOESN`T OWE YOU NOTHING, MY DEAR FRIEND!" Alfarin was 🐸🐸🐸🐸. How could Tyler speak so derogatorily about his lovely twin sister?
"It would be the best if you apologized immediately to her, she doesn´t deserve ONE BAD THOUGHT FROM YOU! I want -no- I order you to apologize to her! I´ll brew you the potion you need and then I´ll leave you and if you didn´t manage to apologize to her then I´ll take her with me and you won´t see her ever again! This is what I tell you!" Alfarin looked full of anger at his friend.
And saw his hurted and frightened face.
"I am sorry, I didn´t want to yell at her or at you. I don´t know what happens to me- ach, it doesn´t matter, it´s better for her not to love me or involve with me."
Alfarin was still too angry to really understand what Tyler had said with his last sentence.
So he just accepted his friend´s apology. "It´s ok that you´ve apologized to me, but do it with her, she-"
"I would, could you let me alone now, please?" Tyler said with a thin voice. He turned his back on his friend and stepped away from him, Alfarin shouldn´t see how lonely and despaired he looked.
Alfarin went upstairs, still very churned up inside. He wanted to brew the potion Haldir wanted him to brew for Tyler and he wanted to look after the final healing potion which still needed some days to be ready to be given.
He should have considered to do something easier to do than brewing a potion where he had to concentrate on the right ingredients and their amount.
Good for all of them that Haldir and Travis arrived at Aurora Skies in the early evening, hopefully they could help them all to get along together again.
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/953447/streuner-a-cat-s-tale
Alfarin didn´t make it to the toilet correctly, he felt so bad after he brew that first false potion that he had problems to find it....
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/953447/streuner-a-cat-s-tale
@AlexaKry I knew Alfarin would come to see Tyler. He loves his sister and I knew he would be her champion with Tyler.
It must have been hard for him knowing Tyler as he does.
I'm glad Alfarin continued to hang in there and try to break through to Tyler.
And he did...but how much. I guess we will see in the next update! You write it so well between the two of them.
I still want to smack Tyler for hurting Sif.
He pushes away all those who love him and want to help him. He can then justify his own thoughts about himself being unlovable, unworthy of them. Yeah, I want to kick his tush too!
Love the pics of Alfarin and the stinky potion he made! Perhaps he should make Tyler drink the stinky potion to shock his brain back in gear.
Yaah, Haldir and Travis are arriving. I dunno what you have planned but I'm ready to read it now!
Snickering at the outtakes!!
The Cowboy and the Mermaid
@AlexaKry Thank you! I am reserving judgement!
Oh how interesting, so Alfie was mad at Sif and Haldir for that plan of Sif to die. well that is natural he loves his sister very much and probably didn't know she could un-die! I would be So mad at my sisters if they died for someone too!
What an ordeal! It's so very hard to be mad at your best friend! (PS I love the pattern on his shirt!)
''"You know, I have talked with Sif and she told me that you were running the whole day today and I wondered if your feet didn´t hurt, you know, because I know that last time you´ve told me that they felt as if you were wearing wood boxes at your feet. Did that change?" Alfarin thought it would help break the ice between them if he made a little joke. '' omg god I Loved Alfarin saying this!
OMG such a huge fight between the best friends! HUGE!!! I never thought in all my born days that I would see Alfie that Mad! I love him even more (if that is even possible) for sticking up for Sif! The lovely Goddess Sif
But now! 😮wow, such a turn around in Tyler, it is like Alfie yelling at him broke for a moment this awful---I don't know what to call it, it seems almost like a Possession of his being! Something that overcomes and over takes the normal Tyler and this dark demon like thing invades his personality and spews vile meanness! And Alfie broke that! for a moment at least!
And Tyler apologized!?! Wow! a miracle!
Did that hurt their relationship having them be so mad at each other? Did the apology help to mend it back some? I know it's so tricky to make them do the mean thing and remain close!
I'm glad he can still brew the potion for him!
Thank Goodness for Haldir and Travis coming!!!!
Your outtakes are wonderfully funny!😁😂🤣
Excellent Update! I look forward to more!
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"They´ve got 13 kids during the last centuries" <-- How many years did pass since Travis and Haldir got married did you say?? :P
"But their youngest and their second youngest kids (Thore and Tyler)" <-- Its always the youngest ones that end up being the troublemakers isn't it.
Shame on you Thore for stealing your brothers wife!
Hmm, Fortress Rock.. is it a hotel or a brothel? Why do you use quotation marks around "hotel"? :P
Hmm, strange dreams Tyler is having. Don't know what that's supposed to mean...
Its understandable that the relationship with Tyler and his wife would come to and end...
I like the white interior you have of houses. I think it looks great. Like a simplistic and modern style, sort of.
"(...) Tyler rowed his little boat into the sea and all he wanted to do was jump into the water and let it pull him down into the deep." <-- Whoa, there! Don't do that....
Now that's a... very interesting looking build. o_O
"Furthermore it was winter and there were many heavy storms which could have blown away Tyler without somebody knowing." <-- I know it is not right laughing here, but the mental image of that sounded kind of funny. :P
Yeah, this King Stein is a j*** that is clear! He's got a nice castle, wife and daughter, though....
"At one of the consultations, where Tyler got hypnotized, he died." <-- Well, that was sudden. o_X
Oh, it wasn't being hypnotized directly that killed him , but rather this um... black dark thing.. whatever that can be.. He was killed by cosmos...
Fascinating, sounds believable about what could happened after someone dies.. wow, amazing that Sif actually was there to save him. o_O
Oooh, that is a great looking building. What is it, the Grim Manor?
Hahaha, are you kidding me? That looks like back problems for sure... :P
Well, turns out she is also bad an manipulative for luring Tyler into a trap and have him killed..
August 14 update
I think Tyler running is his way of dealing with problems. Sometimes one needs to run... . I think Sif doesn't need to worry. He is runnning, but not running away! Because he has already told her he wants to stay with her, and has planned their future...
In the beginning here I can understand Tyler more than Sif...
" ""Leave me alone, I´m not good for us," was the last what she could heard from him.
Then he ran away again. " <-- Ok, that's not quite a good thing to say.. Well, maybe she should worry...
I'm not 100 % sure what's going on, but I don't think Tyler is trying to hurt her or anything. Haldir is overreacting when he says he should kill him.
Ok, so he has a form of depression.
"And was shocked about his aggressive reaction. He yelled at her that she didn´t have to stick her nose into his business!" <-- Looks like he wasn't ready to talk just like that. Looks like the question came to fast from her...
August 24 update:
Again I don't think Tyler is trying to hurt her...
Umm, ok..
Quote: " "And do you KNOW (he literally spat out that word) that I don´t care what she or you or whoever feels? Not A BIT? I have-"" <-- Why does Tyler say this? Does he really not care? Maybe I have misunderstood him...
..but I think it is a good thing that Alfarin is brewing the potion, whatever it will do?
Haha, sticking his head through the wall to vomit, oops. :P
This is very good writing. Wish I could come up with something like this.
Sub blogs: #01 Sunset Valley. #02: Lake Onebega #03: Sprottenham #04: Bewickton