I don't think Story Progression is what's needed, aside from some very basic things. What's needed is far more depth for individual sims. The emotion system is a hot mess which ends up making all sims the same. Traits need to be important, and they need FAR more of them. The sims need personalities, not emotions.
They also need to be able to do things together. Catch, pillow fight. They need to get rid of the invisible line down the bed. Let sims be affectionate with each other.
Edit: They also need to fix the bugs. Especially the simulation lag. And that's the problem; would they actually be able to give sims individual personalities and such when the game already gets bogged down the way it does? Without the fixes to the lag, adding more that will give it even more lag is a bad idea.
I don't think Story Progression is what's needed, aside from some very basic things. What's needed is far more depth for individual sims. The emotion system is a hot mess which ends up making all sims the same. Traits need to be important, and they need FAR more of them. The sims need personalities, not emotions.
They also need to be able to do things together. Catch, pillow fight. They need to get rid of the invisible line down the bed. Let sims be affectionate with each other.
Edit: They also need to fix the bugs. Especially the simulation lag. And that's the problem; would they actually be able to give sims individual personalities and such when the game already gets bogged down the way it does? Without the fixes to the lag, adding more that will give it even more lag is a bad idea.
Agreed, I'm worried what the game needs to reduce the lag is optimization, that means less complicated features and better coding. Which is not something that I think is easy to manage.
I'm all for them adding more features to the game like sims doing more things together, but not at the expense of more lag. They should probably be careful about messing with the autonomy too much so the game doesn't need to process too much when sims are doing things.
They did a pretty good job with likes and dislikes, I think they don't slow down things too much because no sims are reacting to each others likes and dislikes.
have traits be like lot traits where you have a set number of "good" ones and then as many "bad" ones as possible. being lactose intolerant isn't a personality trait
As I have heard it you could turn off Story Progression in Sims 3 but that doesn’t mean it worked well.
Also, how would that jive with rotational play. Those are very very big questions.
If a new patch with something as game-altering as Story Progression is released then the time that we currently have between patches is too short for me to be certain that I will be able to continue with my preferred way of playing. One month to know that I will be able to do rotational play sans Story.
This is currently the only game I play and I have invested a lot of time and money on it. I mean, sure, I could hope that the forum knew it all after 3 weeks. Then again, we didn’t know straight away that vampires stopped going round in the evenings. It took some time for that to be apparent. That missing vampires irks me a a lot but it is nothing to Story Progression.
Since I really want to be able to play this way I would probably go in a long long hiatus and return would not be certain. Why risk it? I could just grab all mods and cc that is out there for the latest patch I had and call it Rotational Legend. No more patching, just playing.
I loved story progression in Sims 3, at first. When the bugs started, I remembered there were suddenly babies everywhere...even in houses without adult sims. What a mess! Then the mod god fixed it, and a lot of other things that were wonky, and there was a lot.
When NRass announced he would not mod for Sims 4, I went into despair. When I played the base game, I hated it. Then Deaderpool came to the rescue and the rest is history. His unreplaceable mod allows you to customize your game the way you want, EA doesn't have that ability evidently. So, with respect to the console players, no I would absolutely not want EA messing around with my story progression...I have it just the way I want it.
In my house, dog hair sticks to everything but the dog.
> @somewhsome said: > Same. > I don't need it also, but that's just because I use MCCC and will probably use it even if story progression becomes official — it's much more detailed that any of the game options could be. > But I can't imagine playing without any sort of story progression, I want my saves to feel alive and I don't play rotationally really. > So I don't actually care if it will be added or not, but I think adding story progression would be fair, because console players can't use mods. > Also surprised that people think it may not be optional. Of course it would be, they know pretty well some players love to control everything.
*** Thank to for saying this!
I get a lot of people might not like story progression and that's fine. But to shut the idea down with fear that it will ruin game play doesn't need to be a thing - the developers can add a toggle option in settings. I think there is a great middle ground where all players can benefit.
If story progression gets added - have a tab in settings dedicated to it. Simmers can toggle it on/off. There could be a ton of options too where simmers can decide exactly what they want on/off. And it can be refined as time goes on if it were ever implemented.
Ideally, I'd love the Sims 4 to move to a place where we need less mods. :)
No story progression for me. Hate that about ts3.
It's not what sims 4 "needs" but it's what some simmers "want" I'm a rotational story player and ts4 is perfect for that. I want all of my households untouched. I delete every baby mcc makes. Gotta find out how to stop that.....
As long as there is a toggle story progress away. 😉
Story progression in Sims 3 was chaotic neutral, which I loved! Married Sims had kids with their spouses and stayed married unless there was some kind of effort from the player. Sims built one-sided relationships, meaning that they'd only get together if both Sims liked each other.
Adult Sims had a baseline of 5 traits, and more could be earned by doing things. They had likes and dislikes, and through the course of story progression, they could become friends or enemies. You could nudge relationships the way you wanted them to go by inviting them to parties, encouraging them to flirt or, if you had witches, setting a room full of love spells and walking out. (With this one, every Sim would fall in love with the next Sim they saw, creating a mess of love triangles, jealousy, and new relationships.)
It was disappointing to me to start a game where households had stories, but no relationships to back them up. Case in point: the Caliente household. Don is described as Katrina's boy toy, but they have no relationship and will never have a relationship. There will never be any drama with Katrina's attractive daughters, as the only connection they have is default "household member."
It's true that there were some weird babies created in Sims 3, who grew up to be random-outfit/random-trait Sims, but each of those randos had a family, and even if you had aging on and a townie died of old age, they still existed in their random kids' family trees. It felt more real than what we have now.
TL;DR: My real life is boring. Sims chaos is fun, safe chaos that I can stop anytime I want.
have traits be like lot traits where you have a set number of "good" ones and then as many "bad" ones as possible. being lactose intolerant isn't a personality trait
I've been playing a lot of Rimworld recently and their trait system even marks sexual orientation as a trait. It'd be nice if Sims 4 could include a trait slot for "hetero/bi/gay/whatever" and use it to motivate sims—especially townies—in how they choose to flirt. Right now, if I want to, for example, go into the Tinker household in Eco-Living, dissolve the parents' same-sex marriage, and turn them into basically roommates who both have men in their lives and are exclusively hetero, I can do that with no consequence and no lasting hard feelings between them at all.
(he/him)
And remember this above all. Our Roman gods are watching. Make sure they are not ashamed!
My NBA site, Pace and Space
I have discussed wanting what MCCC does for story progression and how it has options to turn it off especially for console players on more than one occasion with the Gurus before. Whether or not the Gurus listen to it well is up to their free will.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
This must be done in order to make Sims 4 a complete game
Must? No.
Also, can people please just stop with the deceptive subject lines? There is no indication here that the Sims 4 devs are opening up any such discussion at all. You want them to, and you certainly have the right to request that they do so, but that is not in fact what is happening. Sorry, but it's one of my pet peeves when people try to trick the community into reading their posts by phrasing things in a deliberately misleading way.
I know they said that they are updating lore and sims appearances but did they say they are adding story progressions?
No. They said what you say they said. But some are taking it as an opportunity to ride their hobbyhorse through the forums, imply that they did, or suggest that they "have to" now.
We are not even sure what the updating lore and appearance polish will entail, other than that they intend to go through base game and all packs.
TS3 has been my formative simming experience, so I love story progression. I would love for it to be available in TS4 too, but it would definitely need an on/off toggle in the Options menu. Not just for the sake of players who hate it and would never use it: even I who love SP don't want to have it on in all my saves.
I also think it would be good to have an advanced Story Progression menu, accessible if you turn SP on, in which the player could choose if they want unplayed sims to, for example:
- start romances
- gain friends and enemies
- get married
- have children
- get jobs and/or quit jobs
- learn skills
- advance in their jobs
- break up/get divorced
- die of causes other than old age
All of these and SP itself should be "off" by default, so that they don't affect players who want to continue playing the game as it is.
This must be done in order to make Sims 4 a complete game
Must? No.
Also, can people please just stop with the deceptive subject lines? There is no indication here that the Sims 4 devs are opening up any such discussion at all. You want them to, and you certainly have the right to request that they do so, but that is not in fact what is happening. Sorry, but it's one of my pet peeves when people try to trick the community into reading their posts by phrasing things in a deliberately misleading way.
But they did on the livestrean say the were opening up for discussion on the 19th.
With the new NPC updates they were talking about I've been thinking a lot about how npcs are handled in the game and I definitely think the game NEEDS a way to manage and assign npc roles in the world and on community lots. Just more control over how sims move between worlds and where they are allowed to spawn would drastically change the game for the better. Also community lots could need a serious upgrade and could be SO much more flexible if we could assign chores and npc roles per lot. I'm gonna try to make a case for that for sure. Also we need a better personality system - they definitely should update and evolve the likes and dislikes to include a lot more and also lot challenges are a great concept that they could evolve indefinitely.
Allons-y!
---> Afterlife Game Pack Idea - improved ghosts, cemeteries and funerals, psychics, new skills, new career and more! <---
@Ravenna Is the devs opening up such a thread? I have not heard about that (or is that what is suppose to happen 19th?). But I think they really need to do such a thing if sims 4 has many more years to come (it has been needed since 2014! I myself have already stopped playing the game many times because of it ...).
I would say that even more than Story progression the Base game needs a better foundation such as: 1.Personality (Adding something like Temperament points similar to sims 1 & 2, like more or less Sensitive / Rational) 2.Memories (experiences like a death/ divorce / childbirth are saved as memories (these can be ”remembered” = will cause memory moodlets at random through life).
Giving us more slots for traits does not solve the problem, specific traits are a very shallow way of describing a human. I hope they can involve Psychologists and experts on human behavior for this. Sims are not humans, but they mimic human behavior.
I play rotationally and like to have full control of all my sims in a world. But if Story progression was optional (an individual option for each household) & have multiple options to it (like @PalmArrow suggests with advanced story progression) I would probably use it on some families. It would be cool if you got the news that your sims best friend applied for a university program and your cousin got a new baby. That kind of things could bring your story into a new direction.
It would be nice if they addressed traits, whims, musical chairs, wonky routing to sinks, missing NPC types (burglars), unwanted random townies interrupting conversations, and a host of other things.
I have experienced the game with mods and have had a very enjoyable experience.
I wish the series would just end so I can enjoy the game without patches breaking mods.
I am holding off mods until the series ends and then I plan to enjoy TS4 fully until The Sims 5 proves itself worth buying.
Another year will probably do it for the game to feel complete, but EA seems to want to stretch out TS4 as long as possible.
On the bright side, it will probably give modders even more to work with and make the game even more customizable.
@Ravenna Is the devs opening up such a thread? I have not heard about that (or is that what is suppose to happen 19th?). But I think they really need to do such a thing if sims 4 has many more years to come (it has been needed since 2014! I myself have already stopped playing the game many times because of it ...).
I would say that even more than Story progression the base game needs a better foundation such as: 1.Personality (Adding something like Temperament points similar to sims 1 & 2, like more or less Sensitive / Rational) 2.Memories (experiences like a death/ divorce / childbirth give a memory moodlet that could be remembered at random through life).
Giving us more slots for traits does not solve the problem, specific traits are a very shallow way of describing a human. I hope they can involve Psychologists and experts on human behavior for this. Sims are not humans, but they mimic human behavior.
I play rotationally and like to have full control of all my sims in a world. But if Story progression was optional (an individual option for each household) & have multiple options to it (like @PalmArrow suggests with advanced story progression) I would probably use it on some families. It would be cool if you got the news that your sims best friend applied for a university program and your cousin got a new baby. That kind of things could bring your story into a new direction.
It was on their live stream after they did thr sims together thing. One of the things they mentioned was opening some sort of thread on the 19 for discussion on features and game difficulty because they wanted to know what people meant when they said they wished the game was more difficult. But that they were only going to read and answer anything that was in topic.
On August 19th starting at 6AM Pacific Time, we’ll be welcoming your comments again during 24 hours in The Sims Forums here: Sims 411 - Forum Feedback, August 19th.
This must be done in order to make Sims 4 a complete game
Must? No.
Also, can people please just stop with the deceptive subject lines? There is no indication here that the Sims 4 devs are opening up any such discussion at all. You want them to, and you certainly have the right to request that they do so, but that is not in fact what is happening. Sorry, but it's one of my pet peeves when people try to trick the community into reading their posts by phrasing things in a deliberately misleading way.
***
The devs are indeed opening up such a discussion - on the 19th August @ 6am pst.
Beyond story progression, I'd love to have memories, wants and fears re-introduced.
I want my sims to remember their first everything, who raised them and if someone past away. It will allow us to connect to our sims better. I would love if they could also recall their memories as well. Nothing more sweet than a grandchild remembering their grandparent, or an elder recalling their first love.
With wants and fears it would need to correspond with their aspirations; however more aspirations do need to be added in my opinion. Variety will add that extra spice I'm sure we're all looking for.
An attraction system would be the icing on the cake. To scope out the room like you would have in the Sims 2... say less.
Granted all the above is thoroughly tested and improved in consistent updates, yeah it could work.
Was story progression even enjoyable in TS3? I don't think so.
I don't think we'll get anything near the depth and care of deaderpools MCCC, so probably people would start complaining and revert to MCCC. If there isn't a toggle to turn story progression of, players who are content with no storyprogression cannot even go on playing with what they knew since the release of TS4.
Now now EA, don't be stinking up our lovely lavender bath with your shopping fart. - My TS4 mods - Gallery ID: 83bienchen
Comments
They also need to be able to do things together. Catch, pillow fight. They need to get rid of the invisible line down the bed. Let sims be affectionate with each other.
Edit: They also need to fix the bugs. Especially the simulation lag. And that's the problem; would they actually be able to give sims individual personalities and such when the game already gets bogged down the way it does? Without the fixes to the lag, adding more that will give it even more lag is a bad idea.
Agreed, I'm worried what the game needs to reduce the lag is optimization, that means less complicated features and better coding. Which is not something that I think is easy to manage.
I'm all for them adding more features to the game like sims doing more things together, but not at the expense of more lag. They should probably be careful about messing with the autonomy too much so the game doesn't need to process too much when sims are doing things.
They did a pretty good job with likes and dislikes, I think they don't slow down things too much because no sims are reacting to each others likes and dislikes.
As I have heard it you could turn off Story Progression in Sims 3 but that doesn’t mean it worked well.
Also, how would that jive with rotational play. Those are very very big questions.
If a new patch with something as game-altering as Story Progression is released then the time that we currently have between patches is too short for me to be certain that I will be able to continue with my preferred way of playing. One month to know that I will be able to do rotational play sans Story.
This is currently the only game I play and I have invested a lot of time and money on it. I mean, sure, I could hope that the forum knew it all after 3 weeks. Then again, we didn’t know straight away that vampires stopped going round in the evenings. It took some time for that to be apparent. That missing vampires irks me a a lot but it is nothing to Story Progression.
Since I really want to be able to play this way I would probably go in a long long hiatus and return would not be certain. Why risk it? I could just grab all mods and cc that is out there for the latest patch I had and call it Rotational Legend. No more patching, just playing.
When NRass announced he would not mod for Sims 4, I went into despair. When I played the base game, I hated it. Then Deaderpool came to the rescue and the rest is history. His unreplaceable mod allows you to customize your game the way you want, EA doesn't have that ability evidently. So, with respect to the console players, no I would absolutely not want EA messing around with my story progression...I have it just the way I want it.
> Same.
> I don't need it also, but that's just because I use MCCC and will probably use it even if story progression becomes official — it's much more detailed that any of the game options could be.
> But I can't imagine playing without any sort of story progression, I want my saves to feel alive and I don't play rotationally really.
> So I don't actually care if it will be added or not, but I think adding story progression would be fair, because console players can't use mods.
> Also surprised that people think it may not be optional. Of course it would be, they know pretty well some players love to control everything.
***
Thank to for saying this!
I get a lot of people might not like story progression and that's fine. But to shut the idea down with fear that it will ruin game play doesn't need to be a thing - the developers can add a toggle option in settings. I think there is a great middle ground where all players can benefit.
If story progression gets added - have a tab in settings dedicated to it. Simmers can toggle it on/off. There could be a ton of options too where simmers can decide exactly what they want on/off. And it can be refined as time goes on if it were ever implemented.
Ideally, I'd love the Sims 4 to move to a place where we need less mods. :)
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/17959481#Comment_17959481
It's not what sims 4 "needs" but it's what some simmers "want" I'm a rotational story player and ts4 is perfect for that. I want all of my households untouched. I delete every baby mcc makes. Gotta find out how to stop that.....
As long as there is a toggle story progress away. 😉
Adult Sims had a baseline of 5 traits, and more could be earned by doing things. They had likes and dislikes, and through the course of story progression, they could become friends or enemies. You could nudge relationships the way you wanted them to go by inviting them to parties, encouraging them to flirt or, if you had witches, setting a room full of love spells and walking out. (With this one, every Sim would fall in love with the next Sim they saw, creating a mess of love triangles, jealousy, and new relationships.)
It was disappointing to me to start a game where households had stories, but no relationships to back them up. Case in point: the Caliente household. Don is described as Katrina's boy toy, but they have no relationship and will never have a relationship. There will never be any drama with Katrina's attractive daughters, as the only connection they have is default "household member."
It's true that there were some weird babies created in Sims 3, who grew up to be random-outfit/random-trait Sims, but each of those randos had a family, and even if you had aging on and a townie died of old age, they still existed in their random kids' family trees. It felt more real than what we have now.
TL;DR: My real life is boring. Sims chaos is fun, safe chaos that I can stop anytime I want.
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I've been playing a lot of Rimworld recently and their trait system even marks sexual orientation as a trait. It'd be nice if Sims 4 could include a trait slot for "hetero/bi/gay/whatever" and use it to motivate sims—especially townies—in how they choose to flirt. Right now, if I want to, for example, go into the Tinker household in Eco-Living, dissolve the parents' same-sex marriage, and turn them into basically roommates who both have men in their lives and are exclusively hetero, I can do that with no consequence and no lasting hard feelings between them at all.
And remember this above all. Our Roman gods are watching. Make sure they are not ashamed!
My NBA site, Pace and Space
Must? No.
Also, can people please just stop with the deceptive subject lines? There is no indication here that the Sims 4 devs are opening up any such discussion at all. You want them to, and you certainly have the right to request that they do so, but that is not in fact what is happening. Sorry, but it's one of my pet peeves when people try to trick the community into reading their posts by phrasing things in a deliberately misleading way.
No. They said what you say they said. But some are taking it as an opportunity to ride their hobbyhorse through the forums, imply that they did, or suggest that they "have to" now.
We are not even sure what the updating lore and appearance polish will entail, other than that they intend to go through base game and all packs.
I also think it would be good to have an advanced Story Progression menu, accessible if you turn SP on, in which the player could choose if they want unplayed sims to, for example:
- start romances
- gain friends and enemies
- get married
- have children
- get jobs and/or quit jobs
- learn skills
- advance in their jobs
- break up/get divorced
- die of causes other than old age
All of these and SP itself should be "off" by default, so that they don't affect players who want to continue playing the game as it is.
But they did on the livestrean say the were opening up for discussion on the 19th.
SIMS 3:
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/863178/the-sims-3-50-foals-challenge#latest
I would say that even more than Story progression the Base game needs a better foundation such as:
1. Personality (Adding something like Temperament points similar to sims 1 & 2, like more or less Sensitive / Rational)
2. Memories (experiences like a death / divorce / childbirth are saved as memories (these can be ”remembered” = will cause memory moodlets at random through life).
Giving us more slots for traits does not solve the problem, specific traits are a very shallow way of describing a human. I hope they can involve Psychologists and experts on human behavior for this. Sims are not humans, but they mimic human behavior.
I play rotationally and like to have full control of all my sims in a world. But if Story progression was optional (an individual option for each household) & have multiple options to it (like @PalmArrow suggests with advanced story progression) I would probably use it on some families. It would be cool if you got the news that your sims best friend applied for a university program and your cousin got a new baby. That kind of things could bring your story into a new direction.
#FixThePersonalities
#BringBackTheMemories
LIFE STRUGGLES PACK
I have experienced the game with mods and have had a very enjoyable experience.
I wish the series would just end so I can enjoy the game without patches breaking mods.
I am holding off mods until the series ends and then I plan to enjoy TS4 fully until The Sims 5 proves itself worth buying.
Another year will probably do it for the game to feel complete, but EA seems to want to stretch out TS4 as long as possible.
On the bright side, it will probably give modders even more to work with and make the game even more customizable.
It was on their live stream after they did thr sims together thing. One of the things they mentioned was opening some sort of thread on the 19 for discussion on features and game difficulty because they wanted to know what people meant when they said they wished the game was more difficult. But that they were only going to read and answer anything that was in topic.
SIMS 3:
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/863178/the-sims-3-50-foals-challenge#latest
SIMS 3:
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/863178/the-sims-3-50-foals-challenge#latest
***
The devs are indeed opening up such a discussion - on the 19th August @ 6am pst.
You can find more info here:
https://simscommunity.info/2021/08/04/upcoming-official-discussion-challenge-and-depth-of-the-sims-4-base-game/
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/17959481#Comment_17959481
I want my sims to remember their first everything, who raised them and if someone past away. It will allow us to connect to our sims better. I would love if they could also recall their memories as well. Nothing more sweet than a grandchild remembering their grandparent, or an elder recalling their first love.
With wants and fears it would need to correspond with their aspirations; however more aspirations do need to be added in my opinion. Variety will add that extra spice I'm sure we're all looking for.
An attraction system would be the icing on the cake. To scope out the room like you would have in the Sims 2... say less.
Granted all the above is thoroughly tested and improved in consistent updates, yeah it could work.
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/17959481#Comment_17959481
I don't think we'll get anything near the depth and care of deaderpools MCCC, so probably people would start complaining and revert to MCCC. If there isn't a toggle to turn story progression of, players who are content with no storyprogression cannot even go on playing with what they knew since the release of TS4.