Forum Announcement, Click Here to Read More From EA_Cade.
Why is the bug forum for The Sims 4 managed by players? Update.
Auroraskies
Posts: 1,834 Member
The Bug Reports section for The Sims 4 on Electronic Arts Answers Headquarters game help forum is managed by an ordinary player, in the sense that they test the bug reports, ask any necessary questions to try to narrow the issue down, decide which bug reports are valid and so what gets forwarded to The Sims Team, create and manage the complete list of all bug reports made, write and post the information guiding players on the forum and more. The player is not hired by Electronic Arts Inc.
The question arises since reported issues take a very long time to get fixed. There is of course no game without bugs, but the issues for this game are surprisingly many. The new attempt at inclusion of all players, and visibility into the bug fixing process in The Laundry List is applaudable, but as a player and customer I find it odd that a bug forum for such a high profit complex game with numerous DLC often added, does not get proper, knowledgeable and offical management of their bug forum. The report template is misunderstood by many players using it, and what would be considered a bug and how a report is to be made is not made sufficiently clear by official sources. There is no system for checking the credentials of the players posting in the bug reports section, and subsequently the discussion in the bug report threads are more of a social forum discussion; than proper judgement on what issue is a bug or not, based on an actual skill set in programming, game production, animation and so forth. Only the game producer can decide what they will consider a bug or not, but the process in which the bug reports are analyzed and decided to be valid or not is not made clear. That players are allowed to post in the bug report threads and in what capacity they are useful, is not made clear by official sources. The function of the button Me Too is not made clear by official sources.
The question is asked mainly to get an explanation for the slow bug fixing process and the many bugs that occur after each patch and pack. It is also posed in an attempt to get an explanation of the management of the bug report section, and why it is seemingly run by players, and why the EA offical personnel are so invisible. And lastly, it is asked in an attempt to understand what effect this has on the slow bug fixing process.
I as a player have helped in testing many newly made bug reports in an attempt to replicate them, this to ascertain their validity. I have done this on a Discord server not run by EA, but with the sole intention of discussing threads made for The Sims, on AHQ; and with members those players that post on AHQ and other Sims Forums. I am not hired or compensated in any way by EA for this. I have never been contacted by EA asking me to do this, but only by players posting at AHQ, specifically those with administrative right to manage it. None of the information left the server, I did not post in the bug report section with this information. If the bug report section on AHQ is run by EA offical personnel - how is it that players can help out with work that should be done by The EA SimGurus, or appointed personnel; and this in a forum separated from AHQ, and the effort not initiated by EA personnel.
The question is of course only directed to EA SimGurus, and/or the personnel in charge of decisions regarding the forum. Players posting in this forum are of course welcome to discuss the matter if interested. They need to do so in a proper way, being polite and constructive. Please refrain from posting before giving others the benefit of the doubt. Also refrain from quoting eachother; write using your own words instead.
This thread is not made to diminish the role of the player; neither as the role we all have, nor any specific person's - but to ask a simple question. If it is an intentional choice to let players run the forum, and do the work of the forum; I would like to know the reasoning behind it. I think I have explained what makes me describe it as managed, but discussion is welcome.
I posted this question a couple of weeks ago, and recieved two answers from EA personnel, official AHQ Forum Managers. One was to forward the feedback to their admin, but and there was no following response. The other was to explain how the bug forum is managed. I asked that this information then would be posted / pinned to AHQ. This has not been done. Then the thread was removed. No EA Moderator posted in the thread to close it, or sent me a message about any potential rules broken, or to let me know that is was removed, or why. The thread was calm and not one of those posting in it, including me, broke any Forum Rules. If this was an oversight or mistake, any EA Moderator are welcome to explain this action by posting in the thread, I am sure to understand. This thread is an update of that older one.
The question arises since reported issues take a very long time to get fixed. There is of course no game without bugs, but the issues for this game are surprisingly many. The new attempt at inclusion of all players, and visibility into the bug fixing process in The Laundry List is applaudable, but as a player and customer I find it odd that a bug forum for such a high profit complex game with numerous DLC often added, does not get proper, knowledgeable and offical management of their bug forum. The report template is misunderstood by many players using it, and what would be considered a bug and how a report is to be made is not made sufficiently clear by official sources. There is no system for checking the credentials of the players posting in the bug reports section, and subsequently the discussion in the bug report threads are more of a social forum discussion; than proper judgement on what issue is a bug or not, based on an actual skill set in programming, game production, animation and so forth. Only the game producer can decide what they will consider a bug or not, but the process in which the bug reports are analyzed and decided to be valid or not is not made clear. That players are allowed to post in the bug report threads and in what capacity they are useful, is not made clear by official sources. The function of the button Me Too is not made clear by official sources.
The question is asked mainly to get an explanation for the slow bug fixing process and the many bugs that occur after each patch and pack. It is also posed in an attempt to get an explanation of the management of the bug report section, and why it is seemingly run by players, and why the EA offical personnel are so invisible. And lastly, it is asked in an attempt to understand what effect this has on the slow bug fixing process.
I as a player have helped in testing many newly made bug reports in an attempt to replicate them, this to ascertain their validity. I have done this on a Discord server not run by EA, but with the sole intention of discussing threads made for The Sims, on AHQ; and with members those players that post on AHQ and other Sims Forums. I am not hired or compensated in any way by EA for this. I have never been contacted by EA asking me to do this, but only by players posting at AHQ, specifically those with administrative right to manage it. None of the information left the server, I did not post in the bug report section with this information. If the bug report section on AHQ is run by EA offical personnel - how is it that players can help out with work that should be done by The EA SimGurus, or appointed personnel; and this in a forum separated from AHQ, and the effort not initiated by EA personnel.
The question is of course only directed to EA SimGurus, and/or the personnel in charge of decisions regarding the forum. Players posting in this forum are of course welcome to discuss the matter if interested. They need to do so in a proper way, being polite and constructive. Please refrain from posting before giving others the benefit of the doubt. Also refrain from quoting eachother; write using your own words instead.
This thread is not made to diminish the role of the player; neither as the role we all have, nor any specific person's - but to ask a simple question. If it is an intentional choice to let players run the forum, and do the work of the forum; I would like to know the reasoning behind it. I think I have explained what makes me describe it as managed, but discussion is welcome.
I posted this question a couple of weeks ago, and recieved two answers from EA personnel, official AHQ Forum Managers. One was to forward the feedback to their admin, but and there was no following response. The other was to explain how the bug forum is managed. I asked that this information then would be posted / pinned to AHQ. This has not been done. Then the thread was removed. No EA Moderator posted in the thread to close it, or sent me a message about any potential rules broken, or to let me know that is was removed, or why. The thread was calm and not one of those posting in it, including me, broke any Forum Rules. If this was an oversight or mistake, any EA Moderator are welcome to explain this action by posting in the thread, I am sure to understand. This thread is an update of that older one.
3
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
This post is to clarify a couple of things that came up in the other thread, hence the 'reserved' state. I will add to it.
A lot was talked about the so called superusers of AHQ, mostly by the EA representatives posting in the thread; but also some interesting questions posed by players. One was if there is a system to control the Heroes, the players that get administrative rights on the forum, to merge, move and name threads, both in the bug report section, and the others: Technical and General Discussion & Feedback.
Here is a screen shot of it from the old thread:
Here are the presentation and rules for the program. It is posted as late as April 2020, although I think AHQ and the program is much older. There is no explanation to what warranted the information being given at this time.
Presentation:
https://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Information/Community-Connections-Program-Volunteer-Helpers-of-AHQ/td-p/8924397
One requirement is to review a player's guidelines for posting.
It is not defined what the "Answer HQ’s values" are.
How Champions and Heroes are chosen is not explained in detail. It is based on presence, but there are no Heroes and Champions for the Sims 4 sections that are not part of, or have been part of, the Discord server mentioned in post 1.
The social board is on community Slack, and is shared with EA official AHQ Forum Managers. This information is shared in PM's on and outside of AHQ by superusers.
There is no specifications of the administrative rights afforded with the title Hero; or how to use it on bug forums. "Heroes" (not "Champions") can move, name and merge threads. This is not clarified here. It is clear from watching the bug forum and the other sims' sections; and is stated clearly in the Discord mentioned in post 1.
Rules
https://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Information/Community-Connections-Program-Participant-Guidelines/m-p/8907846#M2
It doesn't specify anything about potential bug forum for any game on AHQ; nor is there anything stated about any control mechanism, or check ups.
----
Just a reminder: This thread is not about the superusers, since any internal forum hierarchy applied by EA for their own purposes, does not make the players recieving a title less of players. This thread is a question why players, whether they have a title or not, organize and manage the bug report section.
This thread is shared here:
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/991958/bugs-and-the-sims-101-everything-you-need-to-know/p1?new=1
Yes, I had asked for the information to be pinned to the bug reports section on AHQ, right now it is in Forum Feedback, which is for this forum; but perhaps they aim to do that later. Information is always good though, whether it is posted here or there. My question still stands though, for those that are capable of answering it.
One of those super simmers who monitors the AHQ told me they were getting dizzy from a video I posted to showcase the problem. Part of the video is shot 1st person camera, guess who made 1st person camera? MAXIS - that person didn't watch the video and commenced to ask me questions that were answered by the video! Then they have the audacity to come on this forum & twitter and complain about people who submit reports. SMH
Ok vent over - btw simgurunick doesn't respond on twitter. If he does read the error reports that is news to me, because I have a few out there with no responses to them from gurus only the super simmers
Everything that super simmer asked I provided in the report. The video is just a visual of the issue.
Here is another tech post I put up a month ago and no guru responded to it
https://answers.ea.com/t5/Technical-Issues-PC/Some-issues-after-the-Sims-Sessions-Update-06-2021/m-p/10477984#M218787
I am not sure what it is about, but yes, I think @simgirl1010 is right, the player mostly posting in the bug forum does state motion sickness and does not watch certain videos because of that. As they are a player they do not have to. This thread is asking the question why the bug forum is managed by players at all, since a proper way of dealing with bug reports would be to have hired personnel handle them; answering them; asking any necessary questions; and recieving any media posted by the players making the bug reports. So I would not blame any particular player for not wanting to deal with certain media, since there is no obligation to. I do however think the responsiblity to deal with the bug forum is EA's. So any blame should be directed towards the ones in charge of any decision to let players manage the bug forum.
Bug reports are different from individual technical issues. I have never seen SimGurus post in the technical section, but I would not expect them to, since the issues there are mainly individual, and not directly connected to the game. Any in-game issue needs to be posted in the Bug Report section. Another reason for this thread is that it is not made clear from official sources what the different sections are for, so I understand the confusion.
A would also like to add that the amount of questions asked by players, to understand an issue, are often many more than a person with insight into the game production would need to ask; and by having players manage a bug forum a lot of effort is demanded, both from the ones trying to help, and from the ones posting an issue. Reporting a bug for a game should not be this complicated.
The previous thread was removed as it was in breach of our no "Naming and Shaming" rule, that thread in particular was essentially singling out one user. Since we believe this was unintentional, we decided against taking any sanctions against the involved users. Since it was a hot topic, we decided on making a dedicated thread that contained answers and explanations that were brought up in the original thread so the community at large could access the information.
As I explained at length in the dedicated thread, this is simply not the case. I will restate it here for posterity:
Staff are active in the bug forums, we are consistently working to improve the threads and contents so that the QA team has usable information when they access the bug reports. It is impossible for staff to offer a reply on all bug threads, particularly when the answer would essentially be "thanks for your report, keep an eye out on patch notes to see when your bug gets fixed". It is a waste of staff time to offer this reply to every single report - it provides no additional information to the player, and the staff time is better used improving the threads, engaging on topics where we can say something, and moderating the forum.
We understand there are issues with the bug report template, this is something we're working to address in the future. I stated this on the dedicated thread.
Every player has the right to post a report of a bug or issue, we value EVERYONES input, regardless of their time in game, or experience. No player needs "credentials" to post a bug, or comment on a bug. As I mentioned above, in the bug 101 post, and several times in response to your threads - The only people who determine a bug is a bug is the QA Team, and they look at EVERY thread. The ONLY time a thread is determined "not a bug" by Staff or Volunteers, is when the content of the report is either general feedback (eg: I don't like X feature) or a technical issue (eg: My game is lagging).
I have addressed the impact of the "me too" button in the Bugs 101 thread. Consider my explanation here, and on the Bugs 101 thread, coming from an official source - an EA Staff.
This has been addressed, at length, in the 101 Bug thread with several explanations as to why bug fixing is not a quick process. The staff are active in these boards, however as mentioned above, there is little value to players in AHQ Staff replying to acknowledge each and every report with a generic thank you.
AHQ does not have any official discord server for bug reporting or communication, any activity done on any Discord server is not done or in connection with EA or AHQ.
As you have stated, you've previously looked into bugs in your own free time, without ask or compensation from EA, this is exactly what our volunteers are doing. They enjoy the game, and are curious about bugs impacting it, so in interest of helping the wider community they VOLUNTARILY seek to help provide more information about bugs so when the QA team goes through every post, they have more information to assist them in fixing the issue. If we didn't have players and volunteers deciding to help, the bugs would still go to the QA team, however it may take them longer to assess and fix the issue since they have to spend more time dragonizing the issue.
Players and Volunteers do not determine which bugs are important, and get addressed, nor do they work on fixes for bugs - this is done by EA personnel internally.
In the 101 Bugs thread, I describe how the QA team scrapes all information from the bug forum, this forms an internal database from which they work from (essentially its an internal "forum" - as you described).
AHQ Staff make all decisions regarding the structure and format of all EA forums and AHQ. You are correct, all players interacting are expected to follow the forum rules and guidelines to ensure the spaces are safe and fun for everyone.
Quoting another player is completely allowed, if it wasn't we wouldn't have the feature enabled. Quoting one another allows a replier to bring better context to their reply, as I have done in the response being able to reply to each of your concerns individually.
Please do not direct players to not use a feature (quoting) that we have enabled and encourage the use of appropriately.
As mentioned above, the previous post was deemed as feature "Name and Shame" elements that is against the forum rules, since we did not believe it was done intentionally, no sanctions were placed against any participants of that thread. We took the most relevant information and answers to questions from that thread and created the new 101 Bugs thread.
In terms of the 101 Bugs thread being posted in AHQ, this is our intention in due time. We wanted to get an initial response from this community so we could make any adjustments or improvements to the thread before posting it over on AHQ. I saw that you asked several questions on that thread, I will work to answer early next week.
I will be locking this thread at this point as we have a dedicated discussion for this topic. Please do not create anymore duplicate threads surrounding this issue, as they will be merged into the main discussion thread.
We want to ensure all players have access to the information in a friendly and accessible way. Creating multiple threads where the information gets split is not conducive to this goal.
Arcadia.