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Patreon & EA's TOU

Hey ya'll, I have a general question and it would be great to get some opinions on this (even better if I could get a simguru's opinion on it) but I was wondering what the concensus on paid commissions are within the community?

I mean in the sense that EA have said that CC/Mods aren't allowed to be locked behind a paywall indefinitely as this breaches their TOU, would you reckon this rule also applies to commissions? I would think differently as:

1. The content of the commission isn't for general use, it is sent to one person to use.
2. The CC used in the game can be found on the internet for others to use.

I was just wondering if the rules are a bit more relaxed because technically, it doesn't seem like it should fall under the same jurisdiction but I'm keen to hear other people's thoughts on this!

Comments

  • JackOnYourBackJackOnYourBack Posts: 1,261 Member
    Well you are still selling something that is not really yours with commissions so I don't think that is ok.

    But I'm not sure, maybe someone else more knowledgable will come along. Have you asked a Simguru on twitter?
    Gallery ID: JackOnYourBack
  • keekee53keekee53 Posts: 4,328 Member
    LOL well I never even thought about this.

    It is a choice. If people want the custom content, they can choose to pay or not imo. Let's face it, I rather wait for a 50% off sale for their DLC and pay a modder 5 bucks a month to add better gameplay. If I had to rely on EA only, I would have stopped playing long ago. I am sure modders would have also stopped playing long ago if EA would enforce this rule. So it is a Win Win in my opinion for EA and modders to keep the status quo.
  • logionlogion Posts: 4,712 Member
    edited July 2021
    The rule where modders can make money for mods for the sims4 but have to release it for free after a while is probably because Maxis knows people like mods but they know there is no legal way for them to defend people earning money from it.

    So if Maxis are fine with it then I don't see any problem with it. I think modding should remain a grey area (in most cases) and should not be policed. Enforcing their terms of service will probably only lead to modders not being able to make mods.
  • haneulhaneul Posts: 1,952 Member
    It's actually the same as CC/mods. Commissioners would be using and profiting from something that doesn't belong to them (that belongs to EA), so it's not okay at all. But does EA really care? No.
  • lisamwittlisamwitt Posts: 5,079 Member
    edited July 2021
    I have to say it's something I've never thought about. Modding and CC have existed since Sims 1 and a gallery has existed since Sims 2. It was all simply part of the community and freely shared.

    Sometimes people would give shares or recs. I used to give people Simpoints or items off their wishlist and recs in Sims 3 for sharing their builds in my thread. But I did that because I had Simpoints I wasn't using and being a builder myself, I rarely download other people's work.
    But charging... seems off-putting to me. I don't mean that as an insult to anyone in the community who chooses to do it, they put in the work and they want to be compensated. It's just not personally something I would do and I would never pay anyone else to make me something for the game.

    As far as rules, I would assume that selling anything in the game is technically against the TOU because EA owns it. You might be able to use the loophole that you are selling a service and not the game objects themselves.
    Gallery ID: LadyGray01
  • BabykittyjadeBabykittyjade Posts: 4,975 Member
    edited July 2021
    I would think it would go against rules selling stuff that's not yours. However, this is one of those grey areas to me. There are literally tons and tons of free builds and cc all over the net with a simple google search. No one is forced to pay for anything.
    (Though more and more stuff if being permanently paywalled for rediculous prices🤦‍♀️) still it's not by force. I just move on to tue free stuff.
    But If I, for example, am willing to take my money and have something commissioned and the commissioner is willing to make it for me I don't see the problem.
    It would we really weird/annoying if EA came in and said hey no commissions!!
    Not a fan of heavy policing. No one is hurting anyone. It's a fun simple exchange of custom stuff between two parties.
    Zombies, oh please oh please give us zombies!! :'(
  • BlueR0seBlueR0se Posts: 1,587 Member
    In my experience of following various CC creators, for commissions the general rule of thumb is...
    1.) You're paying for the request of creating specific CC. Not the CC itself but the work to make it.
    2.) It has to be up for free/public access after a certain point.

    You can't privately sell something that isn't yours (or rather, a product that is using EA's copyrighted assets OR can't be fully used without EA's copyrighted property). But you can sell your 'work' (your spare time, skill, etc.) to commission specific things for people in exchange for money. As long as said commissioned item is eventually released for the public after the 2+ weeks or w/e is in EA's TOU.

    CC/Mod creators put in a ton of time and work into what they make. If they want to charge money for early access or specific requests (that are all eventually made public and not moneygated, or its supposed to be), then they should be able to. Whatever money they get from Patreon or CC requests is going to be pocket change compared to what $$$ EA makes. CC/Mods keep the game and community alive and fellow fans financially supporting content creators they like so they may keep making that specific content, should be able to.

    I could be wrong, of course. But I'm pretty sure this is one of those gray areas that are mostly overlooked as long as the CC is eventually made public. At the very least, I see no issue.
  • TriplisTriplis Posts: 3,048 Member
    edited July 2021
    Idk what I'm talking about on this, but my instinct is that as long as you aren't treating it like a business in the formalized enterprise sense, probably EA won't care. So like you could probably treat a commission like a voluntary donation in exchange for a voluntary fulfillment of a request, which I don't think is quite the same as, say, creating an LLC that sells mods in exchange for money and all that jazz.

    And I only think the 2nd case would catch their eye because of things like copyright and trademark laws, and the potential for a formal business weakening their hold on the IP if they don't put a stop to it.

    I'm not sure they could even police voluntary commissions under the table, even if they wanted to. Like how would that work? What's stopping two people from doing commission and fulfillment related to a mod and never telling anyone they did it. Or the modder fulfills the commission and then also releases it publicly, but doesn't say it was based on a commission publicly. No one would even know unless one of the parties divulges it.
    Mods moved from MTS, now hosted at: https://triplis.github.io
  • DevSims91DevSims91 Posts: 469 Member
    I don’t have the money to pay mod and CC creators… So I wait for things to become free or don’t get things but if I had the money to support mod and cc creators (and all of the other artists I like) I would pay money… Although ever since a mod and new game scare wrecked my entire sims 4 game I’ve used things sparingly.

    I spent 15 dollars on three of the kits (I don’t like dust IRL or game bugs and I don’t hate my sims that much) so I didn’t buy the dust pack.

    But if a fan made a K-Pop inspired pack and I had 15 dollars to buy it I totally would EA would never do it.

    I have no problem with fans who create for the game asking for money… If you really want a default replacement by a certain creator and it’s going to cost them lots of time to make it. Then paying them for their services shouldn’t be an issue.
  • GreenTurtleGreenTurtle Posts: 153 Member
    It's probably in the same gray area as kids washing your car for a few bucks.

    Technically, the modders/CC creators should put the item up for free after a while, if they received money for making it. Charging for exclusive items definitely seems to be against EA's TOU. However, if I paid someone a penny for a hat and the creator never showed it off on-line, who's gonna know and who's gonna care?

    Then again, if they're boasting about the fact that they're making exclusive items and turning it into a business venture, they might get in trouble for it.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    It is 2-3 weeks for Patreons and then after that it has to be free for everyone:
    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/930045/ea-its-time-you-start-doing-something-about-the-entitled-cc-creators-in-the-sims-community/p3

    "CC/Mods Locked Behind Paywalls - Creators cannot lock content they make using our game behind a paywall. While we do not police this content (there is no way we would create a team simply to monitor this) we do take reports sent to us seriously and action accordingly.
    Patreon - We understand that folks who make CC / Mods for others to enjoy are doing it in their free time and may desire to offset costs to create the content by using this service. As long as the content is still made available FOR FREE we do not mind these types of pages. Folks who have a Patreon page are welcome to provide folks with "early access" incentives for their content but it should be made available to the general public within 2-3 weeks of it being given to folks early."
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • Calico45Calico45 Posts: 2,038 Member
    I pretty well mirror the consensus here. You are not technically allowed and, if they wanted to, EA could put you hot water over it. However, they are somewhat lax. Very lax compared to Nintendo, but look into those cases if you are curious of what they can do if they decide to.

    I haven't specifically heard of actions being taken against modders, but I have heard of some being reported for TOS violations when a... "Customer" is unhappy. I am not deep into the scene, though.

    If you do it, I suggest you keep it as informal as possible and a timed exclusive only. Make it known upfront to customers that you are selling your service and to follow TOS you will make it free after such and such time. They very well could be completely fine with that.
  • irishdragon7irishdragon7 Posts: 124 Member
    BlueR0se wrote: »
    In my experience of following various CC creators, for commissions the general rule of thumb is...
    1.) You're paying for the request of creating specific CC. Not the CC itself but the work to make it.
    2.) It has to be up for free/public access after a certain point.

    You can't privately sell something that isn't yours (or rather, a product that is using EA's copyrighted assets OR can't be fully used without EA's copyrighted property). But you can sell your 'work' (your spare time, skill, etc.) to commission specific things for people in exchange for money. As long as said commissioned item is eventually released for the public after the 2+ weeks or w/e is in EA's TOU.

    CC/Mod creators put in a ton of time and work into what they make. If they want to charge money for early access or specific requests (that are all eventually made public and not moneygated, or its supposed to be), then they should be able to. Whatever money they get from Patreon or CC requests is going to be pocket change compared to what $$$ EA makes. CC/Mods keep the game and community alive and fellow fans financially supporting content creators they like so they may keep making that specific content, should be able to.

    I could be wrong, of course. But I'm pretty sure this is one of those gray areas that are mostly overlooked as long as the CC is eventually made public. At the very least, I see no issue.

    Hopefully this is not too off-topic, but I do not understand why EA does not hire the modders, especially when the modders fix things that EA still has yet to address (i.e. body proportions for short, long dogs like dachshunds and corgis). I do not use mods because of a bad experience I had with them in Sims 3, but have been considering trying them in Sims 4 if they can make the game more enjoyable to play (i.e. relationship/emotions).

    Even if they set up kits or packs that were modder only and most proceeds go to paying the modders, I think that would be doable. But then again, corporations do not like to decrease their profit margins.
  • haneulhaneul Posts: 1,952 Member
    BlueR0se wrote: »
    In my experience of following various CC creators, for commissions the general rule of thumb is...
    1.) You're paying for the request of creating specific CC. Not the CC itself but the work to make it.
    2.) It has to be up for free/public access after a certain point.

    You can't privately sell something that isn't yours (or rather, a product that is using EA's copyrighted assets OR can't be fully used without EA's copyrighted property). But you can sell your 'work' (your spare time, skill, etc.) to commission specific things for people in exchange for money. As long as said commissioned item is eventually released for the public after the 2+ weeks or w/e is in EA's TOU.

    CC/Mod creators put in a ton of time and work into what they make. If they want to charge money for early access or specific requests (that are all eventually made public and not moneygated, or its supposed to be), then they should be able to. Whatever money they get from Patreon or CC requests is going to be pocket change compared to what $$$ EA makes. CC/Mods keep the game and community alive and fellow fans financially supporting content creators they like so they may keep making that specific content, should be able to.

    I could be wrong, of course. But I'm pretty sure this is one of those gray areas that are mostly overlooked as long as the CC is eventually made public. At the very least, I see no issue.

    Hopefully this is not too off-topic, but I do not understand why EA does not hire the modders, especially when the modders fix things that EA still has yet to address (i.e. body proportions for short, long dogs like dachshunds and corgis). I do not use mods because of a bad experience I had with them in Sims 3, but have been considering trying them in Sims 4 if they can make the game more enjoyable to play (i.e. relationship/emotions).

    Even if they set up kits or packs that were modder only and most proceeds go to paying the modders, I think that would be doable. But then again, corporations do not like to decrease their profit margins.

    @irishdragon7 I don't think the modders want to work for EA. Top moddera probably make more money than EA pays. They also set their own schedules and create the mods they want in the way they want. There's no reason for them to work for EA.
  • Mizzila1297Mizzila1297 Posts: 620 Member
    When I looked into this (it could have changed since then, mind you), I found what I thought was a fairly clear answer. I'm not sure how this would relate to commissions specifically, but it did answer my questions about paywalls, donations, and other aspects regarding any sort of financial gain from creating content for The Sims.

    I'll have to see if I can find the original post.

    Basically, you can accept donations and subscriptions (for example, Patreon), for your creations as long as anything available behind the paywall is available within 21 days of it's release. After that, it is not allowed to be locked behind a paywall. The way to keep earning through creating is to keep creating, basically.

    As far as I know, it is also allowed to have entirely donation-based creations, where everything is available for free, but the option to donate to support the creator is available as well (though not required.)

    I guess basically speaking, as long as you don't keep content locked behind paywalls with no intention of those items being available for free to the public, you should be good.

    In regards to commissions, I'm not entirely sure... On the one hand, you can reasonably charge for your skillset for creating said item. Especially upon request. (As a few have mentioned above!) You have the skills, you've learned to use the software, and you've worked hard at creating this content. On the other hand, however, there's also the issue of it being available for free. If it's always going to be locked behind a paywall, there could be an issue. If it's available for free after creation, but you've only charged the person who requested it, there could also be questions. Like why charge only ONE person for content that'll just be free to literally EVERYONE else?

    It's definitely a gray area, and honestly I don't see much of a way for EA to regulate mods, CC and other content created by players. It's really in their best interests to keep The Sims readily customizable, as it has been... I really do hope they simply release clearer terms regarding the use of platforms like Patreon, as well as cover some broad topics such as their terms regarding Commissions, usage of expansion/DLC content (for example, hair styles that require a specific pack), and so on. But it would have to just be a little more clarity without dictating what you can and cannot create, basically.
  • Chicklet453681Chicklet453681 Posts: 2,431 Member
    I always assumed a commissioned item was something an individual requested the CC/Mod creator to make specifically for them and paid them for their time and skills. I didn't know that "commissioned" items were also offered publicly. Why would someone ever commission a creator and pay them for making the CC or Mod if it was not going to be an exclusive item made just for them and would be offered to everybody? So I just assumed that was a private transaction between those 2 individuals.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    haneul wrote: »
    BlueR0se wrote: »
    In my experience of following various CC creators, for commissions the general rule of thumb is...
    1.) You're paying for the request of creating specific CC. Not the CC itself but the work to make it.
    2.) It has to be up for free/public access after a certain point.

    You can't privately sell something that isn't yours (or rather, a product that is using EA's copyrighted assets OR can't be fully used without EA's copyrighted property). But you can sell your 'work' (your spare time, skill, etc.) to commission specific things for people in exchange for money. As long as said commissioned item is eventually released for the public after the 2+ weeks or w/e is in EA's TOU.

    CC/Mod creators put in a ton of time and work into what they make. If they want to charge money for early access or specific requests (that are all eventually made public and not moneygated, or its supposed to be), then they should be able to. Whatever money they get from Patreon or CC requests is going to be pocket change compared to what $$$ EA makes. CC/Mods keep the game and community alive and fellow fans financially supporting content creators they like so they may keep making that specific content, should be able to.

    I could be wrong, of course. But I'm pretty sure this is one of those gray areas that are mostly overlooked as long as the CC is eventually made public. At the very least, I see no issue.

    Hopefully this is not too off-topic, but I do not understand why EA does not hire the modders, especially when the modders fix things that EA still has yet to address (i.e. body proportions for short, long dogs like dachshunds and corgis). I do not use mods because of a bad experience I had with them in Sims 3, but have been considering trying them in Sims 4 if they can make the game more enjoyable to play (i.e. relationship/emotions).

    Even if they set up kits or packs that were modder only and most proceeds go to paying the modders, I think that would be doable. But then again, corporations do not like to decrease their profit margins.

    irishdragon7 I don't think the modders want to work for EA. Top moddera probably make more money than EA pays. They also set their own schedules and create the mods they want in the way they want. There's no reason for them to work for EA.
    I mean Luumia does both and is an editor for Deligracy, so some people are a jack of all trades like him:

    https://twitter.com/luumiasims?lang=en
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • haneulhaneul Posts: 1,952 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    haneul wrote: »
    BlueR0se wrote: »
    In my experience of following various CC creators, for commissions the general rule of thumb is...
    1.) You're paying for the request of creating specific CC. Not the CC itself but the work to make it.
    2.) It has to be up for free/public access after a certain point.

    You can't privately sell something that isn't yours (or rather, a product that is using EA's copyrighted assets OR can't be fully used without EA's copyrighted property). But you can sell your 'work' (your spare time, skill, etc.) to commission specific things for people in exchange for money. As long as said commissioned item is eventually released for the public after the 2+ weeks or w/e is in EA's TOU.

    CC/Mod creators put in a ton of time and work into what they make. If they want to charge money for early access or specific requests (that are all eventually made public and not moneygated, or its supposed to be), then they should be able to. Whatever money they get from Patreon or CC requests is going to be pocket change compared to what $$$ EA makes. CC/Mods keep the game and community alive and fellow fans financially supporting content creators they like so they may keep making that specific content, should be able to.

    I could be wrong, of course. But I'm pretty sure this is one of those gray areas that are mostly overlooked as long as the CC is eventually made public. At the very least, I see no issue.

    Hopefully this is not too off-topic, but I do not understand why EA does not hire the modders, especially when the modders fix things that EA still has yet to address (i.e. body proportions for short, long dogs like dachshunds and corgis). I do not use mods because of a bad experience I had with them in Sims 3, but have been considering trying them in Sims 4 if they can make the game more enjoyable to play (i.e. relationship/emotions).

    Even if they set up kits or packs that were modder only and most proceeds go to paying the modders, I think that would be doable. But then again, corporations do not like to decrease their profit margins.

    irishdragon7 I don't think the modders want to work for EA. Top moddera probably make more money than EA pays. They also set their own schedules and create the mods they want in the way they want. There's no reason for them to work for EA.
    I mean Luumia does both and is an editor for Deligracy, so some people are a jack of all trades like him:

    https://twitter.com/luumiasims?lang=en

    @Scobre Fair enough, but I wouldn't consider him a top creator. He only has 150 patrons and started a few months ago (in Feb. of this year). Whereas the bigger creators have thousands of patrons...
    https://www.patreon.com/KawaiiStacie
    https://www.patreon.com/heyharrie
    https://www.patreon.com/felixandre
    https://www.patreon.com/icemunmun
    And there are more of them.

  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    haneul wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    haneul wrote: »
    BlueR0se wrote: »
    In my experience of following various CC creators, for commissions the general rule of thumb is...
    1.) You're paying for the request of creating specific CC. Not the CC itself but the work to make it.
    2.) It has to be up for free/public access after a certain point.

    You can't privately sell something that isn't yours (or rather, a product that is using EA's copyrighted assets OR can't be fully used without EA's copyrighted property). But you can sell your 'work' (your spare time, skill, etc.) to commission specific things for people in exchange for money. As long as said commissioned item is eventually released for the public after the 2+ weeks or w/e is in EA's TOU.

    CC/Mod creators put in a ton of time and work into what they make. If they want to charge money for early access or specific requests (that are all eventually made public and not moneygated, or its supposed to be), then they should be able to. Whatever money they get from Patreon or CC requests is going to be pocket change compared to what $$$ EA makes. CC/Mods keep the game and community alive and fellow fans financially supporting content creators they like so they may keep making that specific content, should be able to.

    I could be wrong, of course. But I'm pretty sure this is one of those gray areas that are mostly overlooked as long as the CC is eventually made public. At the very least, I see no issue.

    Hopefully this is not too off-topic, but I do not understand why EA does not hire the modders, especially when the modders fix things that EA still has yet to address (i.e. body proportions for short, long dogs like dachshunds and corgis). I do not use mods because of a bad experience I had with them in Sims 3, but have been considering trying them in Sims 4 if they can make the game more enjoyable to play (i.e. relationship/emotions).

    Even if they set up kits or packs that were modder only and most proceeds go to paying the modders, I think that would be doable. But then again, corporations do not like to decrease their profit margins.

    irishdragon7 I don't think the modders want to work for EA. Top moddera probably make more money than EA pays. They also set their own schedules and create the mods they want in the way they want. There's no reason for them to work for EA.
    I mean Luumia does both and is an editor for Deligracy, so some people are a jack of all trades like him:

    https://twitter.com/luumiasims?lang=en

    Scobre Fair enough, but I wouldn't consider him a top creator. He only has 150 patrons and started a few months ago (in Feb. of this year). Whereas the bigger creators have thousands of patrons...
    https://www.patreon.com/KawaiiStacie
    https://www.patreon.com/heyharrie
    https://www.patreon.com/felixandre
    https://www.patreon.com/icemunmun
    And there are more of them.
    He's been making CC content since the beginning of the Sims 4 and most famous for his body hair:
    https://sims4downloads.net/lumia-lover-sims-female-body-hair/

    I do know of KawaiiStaci and HeyHarrie from their Twitch channels, but never heard of the other two. Xmiramira I would consider one of the most popular and well known over the lifetime of the Sims 4 too but then again it is all subjective. CinderelliMouse is an amazing CC creator too and very well loved on these forums. Then there is of course Kijiko for CC eyelashes. Probably the most popular via word of mouth in the modding community are Zerbu, TwistedMexi, Deaderpool, roBurky, and weerbesu.

    Some mods to venture to:
    https://www.dexerto.com/sims/best-the-sims-4-mods-download-1606832/

    Safest modding site since Sims 2 and my home base Sims site I started on that has talented and mature group of Simmers with content creation in general:
    https://modthesims.info/

    These are two well known sites too for content:
    https://aroundthesims3.com/

    https://peacemaker-ic.tumblr.com/

    Formerly HollieBB is working at EA now too:
    https://twitter.com/HollieBearies

    It is nice to see the mod and CC and challenge creators recognized more with Maxis. It wasn't always that way until really this iteration. When they had that patch, I was super happy. Just nice to see content creators extend their comfort zones to paid careers. Free content creation is fun to do as a teen, but doesn't pay the bills as an adult.

    Content creation on Youtube doesn't pay much especially as of late. Twitch is at least more profitable with the subs and bits:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz-KQg7Fwoo

    So yes I do see why creators go for patreon even at the 3 week limit because well Youtube doesn't pay much.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • haneulhaneul Posts: 1,952 Member
    edited July 2021
    I do know of KawaiiStaci and HeyHarrie from their Twitch channels, but never heard of the other two. Xmiramira I would consider one of the most popular and well known over the lifetime of the Sims 4 too but then again it is all subjective. CinderelliMouse is an amazing CC creator too and very well loved on these forums. Then there is of course Kijiko for CC eyelashes. Probably the most popular via word of mouth in the modding community are Zerbu, TwistedMexi, Deaderpool, roBurky, and weerbesu.
    @Scobre I mentioned the creators I did because those creators (even those you haven't heard of) can arguably make a living wage from their Sims 4 content.

    Just for a bit of quick math - even though these numbers will vary greatly for some others because they have different minimum fees and attitudes about charging for their creations, but taking felixandre as example (because he's more "unknown" but is okay with charging $)
    • he has 3,942 patrons paying a minimum of $5/month, for a minimum total of $19,710/month
    • subtracting 14.9% for fees (which is a high estimate) and $1,182 for other potential fees: that's still $15,591/month
    • and subtracting 50% more for taxes etc., it's still $7,795/month (which doesn't account for any of his patrons paying $10 or $20 a month).

    I just don't think the biggest modders/CC creators have any real incentive to work for EA. This is on top of people living in different countries and being subject to different labor laws, etc. etc. For average creators who may want stability, it's different. I didn't mean to insult Luumia by implying that he'd only been creating for a few months, but that he's only been on Patreon for a few months and hasn't really tried to monetize his work.
  • shenandoah_valleshenandoah_valle Posts: 20 Member
    I always assumed a commissioned item was something an individual requested the CC/Mod creator to make specifically for them and paid them for their time and skills. I didn't know that "commissioned" items were also offered publicly. Why would someone ever commission a creator and pay them for making the CC or Mod if it was not going to be an exclusive item made just for them and would be offered to everybody? So I just assumed that was a private transaction between those 2 individuals.

    I see what you mean, I mean commission though more in terms of creating a sim for someone or creating a lot for someone who's commissioned you to do so. Because the lot might contain CC that's free for all and CC that might be locked behind paywalls (sometimes indefinitely), does this then make the commissioned item an EA TOU breaker or is it fine because the CC is on the internet. It's definitely a gray area.
  • haneulhaneul Posts: 1,952 Member
    edited July 2021
    I always assumed a commissioned item was something an individual requested the CC/Mod creator to make specifically for them and paid them for their time and skills. I didn't know that "commissioned" items were also offered publicly. Why would someone ever commission a creator and pay them for making the CC or Mod if it was not going to be an exclusive item made just for them and would be offered to everybody? So I just assumed that was a private transaction between those 2 individuals.

    I see what you mean, I mean commission though more in terms of creating a sim for someone or creating a lot for someone who's commissioned you to do so. Because the lot might contain CC that's free for all and CC that might be locked behind paywalls (sometimes indefinitely), does this then make the commissioned item an EA TOU breaker or is it fine because the CC is on the internet. It's definitely a gray area.

    I think you also have to consider that you're not allowed to make the commissioned item in the first place. We are only allowed to use EA's software in certain ways (and using it to make items for sale/commission isn't one of them). Unless you make a commissioned item without using anything of the Sims (which isn't possible if you're making a sim or a lot whether it contains CC or not), it's not going to be permitted by the TOU because you don't own the items you're using (the game is only licensed) and you don't have permission to use it in that way. But EA is probably not going to bother enforcing it...
  • Calico45Calico45 Posts: 2,038 Member
    To add on a little here, @shenandoah_valle, I think that the desired exclusivity is a secondary issue to the violation. Even if they have not before, EA has every right to go scorched earth with this and it would not be the first time a company has changed their policies in a way to significantly damage creators. I know I keep bringing up Nintendo who has never embraced fan content, but anything Nintendo can do EA can in that regard.

    So even if it cuts down your potential customers, it would probably be in your best interest to protect yourself with transparency and documented attempts to at least partially follow TOS.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    haneul wrote: »
    @Scobre I mentioned the creators I did because those creators (even those you haven't heard of) can arguably make a living wage from their Sims 4 content.

    Just for a bit of quick math - even though these numbers will vary greatly for some others because they have different minimum fees and attitudes about charging for their creations, but taking felixandre as example (because he's more "unknown" but is okay with charging $)
    • he has 3,942 patrons paying a minimum of $5/month, for a minimum total of $19,710/month
    • subtracting 14.9% for fees (which is a high estimate) and $1,182 for other potential fees: that's still $15,591/month
    • and subtracting 50% more for taxes etc., it's still $7,795/month (which doesn't account for any of his patrons paying $10 or $20 a month).

    I just don't think the biggest modders/CC creators have any real incentive to work for EA. This is on top of people living in different countries and being subject to different labor laws, etc. etc. For average creators who may want stability, it's different. I didn't mean to insult Luumia by implying that he'd only been creating for a few months, but that he's only been on Patreon for a few months and hasn't really tried to monetize his work.
    True and I think they have incentive to work anywhere really. Some of the former Gurus have branched out to creating their own studio and working for larger companies than EA. I figure working for EA is a stepping stone for bigger and well better paying jobs. I am impressed at your math being a math person myself and always happy to hear when people in the modding community are doing so well with their work. Honestly always found them to be the brains of the Sims community with all their talent. I started on modthesims site and the storytelling on that site was so good and the machinimas made there made it even more special in the Sims 2 days. I think content creation is a good stepping stone for a job with benefits and always nice to see people continue to use their skills in other ventures too. Hard to believe Luumia was 16 when the Sims 4 first came out and thinking about how many Simmers are adults now within the Sims 4 lifetime.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • susannesimssusannesims Posts: 128 Member
    I think a commission and early access is fine. Permanent paywalls are not fine though. I've heard of too much CC being locked behind paywalls and ended up being low quality (for example, no LODS included and it being like 20k poly for all LODS which completely lags out your game even on gaming PCs) or similar stuff. Also see a lot of CC with artwork stolen from the internet that is put behind paywall, which is NOT okay. I used to draw drawings like that (instagram account is pastelshake) when I was younger and was in a community, and ive seen some drawings from my old internet friends that have ended up on early access CC. You cant even comment on patreon without paying which is just so effing sad
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