I’ve seen various system configuration related posts around the forum pertaining TS5 having to support low spec hardware but I haven’t yet seen any concrete details or a configuration list.
The system requirements for Stalker 2 went up during this week (unfortunately no performance targets). Is the expectation for TS5 to go lower than these configurations?
It’s also worth saying that the transition away from relying on rendering graphics at native resolution is well underway across the industry, carried by the three major upscaling technologies. There is a concerted effort to help keep older GPUs functional (especially during a procurement predicament), whereas in past years a new stage of graphical fidelity would mean a lot of lower tier hardware would become unusable.
Probably a bit lower, Stalker 2 looked quite demanding in the E3 trailer, it's an FPS with probably very large environments. That's at least what the areas were in the original stalker games.
The sims seems more demanding when it comes to having a lot of objects on the screen and a lot of gameplay mechanics running in the background. In an FPS the environments that you are exploring tend to stay the same.
Never set out with the intention of triggering people, but this sure has been an interesting outcome of responses. Even more interesting when you contrast them with the resounding positivity in comments in the linked YouTube video. I post to create dialogue and this has successfully got the ball rolling.
I could possibly get used to it but I don't want Sims to be so close to being humans.
I’ve heard VFX/CGI artists and film makers lament non-stop over the last two weeks about the stories they’ll now be able to tell given what the engine is capable of. It’s easy to forget what The Sims is fundamentally: a platform for people to create & tell (or live through) their own stories. It’s impossible to overstate the import of an interface that doesn’t get in the way of your imagination.
I’ve been through that experience before; tried to create multiple “stories” during TS3 days (TS4, like TS3 uses DX9 for instance, so nothing significant changed there), lighting in that situation was crucial, but due to limitations of that time, I couldn’t complete what I started. 😥
Photorealism is a tool (a substantial one that thwarts lighting/visual fidelity related limitations) that contributes to unfettered story telling.
On this forum I’ve observed a decent amount of pushback regarding photorealism (whether it pertains to in-game architecture or CAS stuff). Do you think it’s a matter of getting used to it and once people get to see what they can do with the technology they become more receptive to it?
I'm going to propose a counterpoint. You'll notice that houses like Pixar and Dreamworks are still using "animated" proportions and textures rather than pushing for photorealism. Why? Because there are stories for which photorealism is a detriment, rather than an asset. Because things that are funny when they happen to cartoon characters are disturbing or horrific when they happen to real people.
And that's before we even get to the uncanny valley, and how different people have different tolerances for said valley.
So Think about sims. Think about the goofy deaths. And think about how horrific that would look if someone actually suffered it in real life (the Murphy Bed Death comes to mind.) And then think do you really want to see that happen to your sim? Are you still going to be able to laugh at it? When we see these sorts of deaths in the movies, they're usually going for shock value rather than laughs.
I mean, I work with Daz Studio a lot. I'm very familiar with what's possible in terms of photorealism. Significantly more than the limitations of Unreal Engine. So my reluctance has nothing to do with knowing what can be done, and has everything to do with not wanting to see realistic sims suffer from horrific accidents and deaths - and I already don't like having my sims die except from old age. Toon rendering provides a kind of buffer and one that I'm kinda reluctant to let go of.
I’m sure I can now count the posts where people spotlight bad things that can happen to their sims (particularly drowning). What are you doing to your sims? 😂
So far, everyone who has participated in the discussion has articulated their argument against cartoony and photorealistic with tenacity. I saw the trailer (yeah, I know) for Redfall during E3 last week. I observed the art direction as well as the character proportions and wondered if this is the middle ground people are looking for within this discussion? The Sims has always used normal proportions thus the discussion revolves around graphics.
I’ve shared visual representations of what I envisage/propose a next gen-sims could look like from an architectural/environment perspective and the actual sims. However, I haven’t seen anyone post any visuals for what’s going through their mind.
Not TS4/TS3, not photorealistic, but a definitive generational leap forward? If you have a visual representation that strikes this balance, please share it.
I’ve seen various system configuration related posts around the forum pertaining TS5 having to support low spec hardware but I haven’t yet seen any concrete details or a configuration list.
The system requirements for Stalker 2 went up during this week (unfortunately no performance targets). Is the expectation for TS5 to go lower than these configurations?
It’s also worth saying that the transition away from relying on rendering graphics at native resolution is well underway across the industry, carried by the three major upscaling technologies. There is a concerted effort to help keep older GPUs functional (especially during a procurement predicament), whereas in past years a new stage of graphical fidelity would mean a lot of lower tier hardware would become unusable.
Storage: 150 GB??? This is like three times the storage of TS4 with all packs. A Sims game will never have such high requirements.
I’m sure I can now count the posts where people spotlight bad things that can happen to their sims (particularly drowning). What are you doing to your sims? 😂
So far, everyone who has participated in the discussion has articulated their argument against cartoony and photorealistic with tenacity. I saw the trailer (yeah, I know) for Redfall during E3 last week. I observed the art direction as well as the character proportions and wondered if this is the middle ground people are looking for within this discussion? The Sims has always used normal proportions thus the discussion revolves around graphics.
I’ve shared visual representations of what I envisage/propose a next gen-sims could look like from an architectural/environment perspective and the actual sims. However, I haven’t seen anyone post any visuals for what’s going through their mind.
Not TS4/TS3, not photorealistic, but a definitive generational leap forward? If you have a visual representation that strikes this balance, please share it.
I think the girl that have been featured in the recent Unreal Engine 5 demo's kinda fits that balance. It feels like that's what the people at Epic was going for, something that reminded them a bit of their style they had in Fortnite, but more realistic.
Storage: 150 GB??? This is like three times the storage of TS4 with all packs. A Sims game will never have such high requirements.
On one hand I’d say disregard the storage because this varies between games.
However, when I consider the fidelity of geometry assets incoming with the deployment of technologies like Nanite, the heightened levels of world density that devs will realise and the likelihood of moving to 8K textures now that 4K gameplay is established and storage speed is no longer a limitation. On the other hand TS5 could require less, but all these aforementioned elements combined make 100GB+ plausible.
For reference RDR2 required the same 150GB in 2018.
This is what I anticipated would happen. Regarding physically based rendering specifically, it’s right there with the MetaHuman creator. It’s primarily the art style that’s different. While the art style is subjective, PBR is more objective. What I wanted to see was how you could upgrade from TS4 while not making it photorealistic without sidestepping PBR.
Sims can NEVER look like this. A very important thing about developing their appearence is to make it so their faces are flexible enough to be different from each other. They aren't supposed to have such a specific art-style because it makes it difficult for us to create Sims that don't look so much alike.
All I see in these pictures so far is that Disney, Pixar art style with the big eyes, glowy skin etc. If you notice a lot of characters from such movies or games look too similar because the art-style isn't as flexible.
If we want to have sims we can customize any way we like we need to stop taking inspiration from movies and other games and try to look at previous and current sims iterations and identify what could be done better.
Sims can NEVER look like this. A very important thing about developing their appearence is to make it so their faces are flexible enough to be different from each other. They aren't supposed to have such a specific art-style because it makes it difficult for us to create Sims that don't look so much alike.
All I see in these pictures so far is that Disney, Pixar art style with the big eyes, glowy skin etc. If you notice a lot of characters from such movies or games look too similar because the art-style isn't as flexible.
If we want to have sims we can customize any way we like we need to stop taking inspiration from movies and other games and try to look at previous and current sims iterations and identify what could be done better.
I think sims could be done better if we had more detail. More detailed hair, real eyelashes, better lightning and shadows. Higher resolution textures. More skin details, skin that looks like real skin, more sliders for face and body.
The Sims can't be realistic, the style is like Disney's 3D animations.
That picture reminds me of Sims3 and not Sims4 so I hope a new iteration doesn't go back to that. Somewhere in between would be better.
Would realistic Sims make a much greater demand on a computer though? Rather like the colour wheel adding too much to CAS did?
The color wheel doesn't lag TS3 CAS - it's the loading of patterns and items with all their default colorings. Well, it used to anyway. I found out that if you install the game to an SSD and setting CAS items to "Compact" form in Mastercontroller, loading CAS items is a whole lot faster. Also installing a game booster like Razer Cortex removes build/buy lag as well.
I really hope that The Sims 5 will have CASt - the color wheel and pattern changer (including being able to add in your own patterns) - so we don't have to buy recolors and repatterned objects over and over like what's happening in TS4. In TS3, virtually every object is unique since it has CASt and you can just change those things instead of buying the same item over and over in static colors and patterns.
The Sims can't be realistic, the style is like Disney's 3D animations.
That picture reminds me of Sims3 and not Sims4 so I hope a new iteration doesn't go back to that. Somewhere in between would be better.
Would realistic Sims make a much greater demand on a computer though? Rather like the colour wheel adding too much to CAS did?
The color wheel doesn't lag TS3 CAS - it's the loading of patterns and items with all their default colorings. Well, it used to anyway. I found out that if you install the game to an SSD and setting CAS items to "Compact" form in Mastercontroller, loading CAS items is a whole lot faster. Also installing a game booster like Razer Cortex removes build/buy lag as well.
I really hope that The Sims 5 will have CASt - the color wheel and pattern changer (including being able to add in your own patterns) - so we don't have to buy recolors and repatterned objects over and over like what's happening in TS4. In TS3, virtually every object is unique since it has CASt and you can just change those things instead of buying the same item over and over in static colors and patterns.
The weakness of TS3 CAS is CASt because the game couldn't handle the ton of presets (Patterns and clothes).
The Sims can't be realistic, the style is like Disney's 3D animations.
That picture reminds me of Sims3 and not Sims4 so I hope a new iteration doesn't go back to that. Somewhere in between would be better.
Would realistic Sims make a much greater demand on a computer though? Rather like the colour wheel adding too much to CAS did?
The color wheel doesn't lag TS3 CAS - it's the loading of patterns and items with all their default colorings. Well, it used to anyway. I found out that if you install the game to an SSD and setting CAS items to "Compact" form in Mastercontroller, loading CAS items is a whole lot faster. Also installing a game booster like Razer Cortex removes build/buy lag as well.
I really hope that The Sims 5 will have CASt - the color wheel and pattern changer (including being able to add in your own patterns) - so we don't have to buy recolors and repatterned objects over and over like what's happening in TS4. In TS3, virtually every object is unique since it has CASt and you can just change those things instead of buying the same item over and over in static colors and patterns.
The weakness of TS3 CAS is CASt because the game couldn't handle the ton of presets (Patterns and clothes).
I think I killed it when I tried to put every Scottish tartan in it! 😥
do you guys think the announcement for sims 5 will be in a sims 4 pack they did that in sims 3 I hope so
I miss the physical discs for Sims 2 as they had leaflets in them about upcoming packs and eventually Sims 3.
I used to really enjoy going to buy the next Sims pack opening then and finding the leaflets etc. Buying online isn’t the same. 🙄
The Sims can't be realistic, the style is like Disney's 3D animations.
That picture reminds me of Sims3 and not Sims4 so I hope a new iteration doesn't go back to that. Somewhere in between would be better.
Would realistic Sims make a much greater demand on a computer though? Rather like the colour wheel adding too much to CAS did?
The color wheel doesn't lag TS3 CAS - it's the loading of patterns and items with all their default colorings. Well, it used to anyway. I found out that if you install the game to an SSD and setting CAS items to "Compact" form in Mastercontroller, loading CAS items is a whole lot faster. Also installing a game booster like Razer Cortex removes build/buy lag as well.
I really hope that The Sims 5 will have CASt - the color wheel and pattern changer (including being able to add in your own patterns) - so we don't have to buy recolors and repatterned objects over and over like what's happening in TS4. In TS3, virtually every object is unique since it has CASt and you can just change those things instead of buying the same item over and over in static colors and patterns.
The weakness of TS3 CAS is CASt because the game couldn't handle the ton of presets (Patterns and clothes).
Yes, on the machines they recommended at the time. But today, I have no lag in TS3's CAS or CASt. It loads instantly unless I save millions of patterns I created from Maxis swatches. The more you save the more it has to render. Someone could create something new in CASt and not actually have to save it (but I'm always saving what I create) and have no problems on today's machines.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Sims can NEVER look like this. A very important thing about developing their appearence is to make it so their faces are flexible enough to be different from each other. They aren't supposed to have such a specific art-style because it makes it difficult for us to create Sims that don't look so much alike.
All I see in these pictures so far is that Disney, Pixar art style with the big eyes, glowy skin etc. If you notice a lot of characters from such movies or games look too similar because the art-style isn't as flexible.
If we want to have sims we can customize any way we like we need to stop taking inspiration from movies and other games and try to look at previous and current sims iterations and identify what could be done better.
This is a problem I have with TS4's art style, tbh. I find that hairstyle is overwhelming in determining how a sim looks and making sims that match someone's RL look is really hard without a hairstyle that matches, in part for the reason of it being so overwhelming. Even with the fine detail manipulations of the face, it's really hard to get the facial structure and features accurate enough to fight how overwhelming the hair is. And some hairs straight up change how the facial structure looks by hiding it or distorting it with the way it covers it and interacts with the lighting.
And I know it's not just my skill at it, cause I've tried in both TS4 and Skyrim, and had more distinct success capturing the essence of someone's features in Skyrim than in TS4. I've also noticed it's clearly not just me, as even when the official sims team does someone's look, there's is a certain genericness to it, and you'd think they have artists on hand who are more skilled at that than some rando like me who rarely does art at all.
Edit: I will add tho, I know more realistic graphics can suffer from a certain type of genericness in their own way. Like if everything is dependent on a limited number of presets (which can only be tweaked from their base values a little bit) then you're going to be very limited in what you can do with it. Like with Skyrim, I use a mod that adds a bunch of additional sliders, which greatly changes the degree to which you can go beyond the presets.
Epic (the creator of Unreal Engine) released a demo today of their MetaHuman Creator. Which is a browser-based app that lets developers and creators create real-time 3D character models in "less than an hour." and bring them to life through animation (like Maya for example like Maxis uses) or motion capture.
Definitely reminds me of CAS in the sims. I wonder if Maxis could have use of this when building their sims5 prototype. I'm not sure this level of detail would be possible in a sims game but who knows?
Oh nice I'd actually like it if they went in a more realistic direction like this for the Sims 5 it still looks cartoonish but there's actual detail they have eyelashes and their hair not a blob of clay and you can easily make people look older those face lines in Sims 4 do not cut it. But I expect it to be nothing like this people are actually having issues with Sims 4 so I cant imagine them ever going high quality and detail in another Sims game we are forever stuck with eyelashes that look like black lines.
Sims 4 went from "You Rule" to "One of the stories we want you to tell"
Sims can NEVER look like this. A very important thing about developing their appearence is to make it so their faces are flexible enough to be different from each other. They aren't supposed to have such a specific art-style because it makes it difficult for us to create Sims that don't look so much alike.
All I see in these pictures so far is that Disney, Pixar art style with the big eyes, glowy skin etc. If you notice a lot of characters from such movies or games look too similar because the art-style isn't as flexible.
If we want to have sims we can customize any way we like we need to stop taking inspiration from movies and other games and try to look at previous and current sims iterations and identify what could be done better.
This is a problem I have with TS4's art style, tbh. I find that hairstyle is overwhelming in determining how a sim looks and making sims that match someone's RL look is really hard without a hairstyle that matches, in part for the reason of it being so overwhelming. Even with the fine detail manipulations of the face, it's really hard to get the facial structure and features accurate enough to fight how overwhelming the hair is. And some hairs straight up change how the facial structure looks by hiding it or distorting it with the way it covers it and interacts with the lighting.
And I know it's not just my skill at it, cause I've tried in both TS4 and Skyrim, and had more distinct success capturing the essence of someone's features in Skyrim than in TS4. I've also noticed it's clearly not just me, as even when the official sims team does someone's look, there's is a certain genericness to it, and you'd think they have artists on hand who are more skilled at that than some rando like me who rarely does art at all.
Edit: I will add tho, I know more realistic graphics can suffer from a certain type of genericness in their own way. Like if everything is dependent on a limited number of presets (which can only be tweaked from their base values a little bit) then you're going to be very limited in what you can do with it. Like with Skyrim, I use a mod that adds a bunch of additional sliders, which greatly changes the degree to which you can go beyond the presets.
I find it very difficult to recreate existing people from movies, games etc. in sims4 because of the art style. You have to make them look more like comic book characters for that to work.
I find it very difficult to recreate existing people from movies, games etc. in sims4 because of the art style. You have to make them look more like comic book characters for that to work.
Yeah, that makes sense. I assume someone who is a skilled caricature artist would be better at working with the limitations of a character creator like ts4's in that regard, but I dunno, maybe even they'd be like "this is too limiting."
If EA are using UE5 for TS5 it doesn’t mean that the new Sims will be photo realistic You can to some amazing things with UE5 like Ray Tracing ( I just got a RTX card and it’s a absolute game changer) but that doesn’t mean that the new sims will be too realistic just because something can be done doesn’t mean it will be done hell we can bring back dinosaurs (it just a case of turning on and off thing I the bird G nome) it dose not mean that we will.
While patiently waiting for FSR field tests, It’s worth highlighting the proliferation of this rendering method partly due to its relevance within this Unreal thread and the greater implication it has for potentially enabling support for older hardware if TS5 moves toward graphics as seen in the UE5 first-party demos and the video linked below.
Pertaining to architecture, everyday it gets a little bit crazier in the land of UE5, but this is the most exemplary demo I’ve found this month:
Comments
Probably a bit lower, Stalker 2 looked quite demanding in the E3 trailer, it's an FPS with probably very large environments. That's at least what the areas were in the original stalker games.
The sims seems more demanding when it comes to having a lot of objects on the screen and a lot of gameplay mechanics running in the background. In an FPS the environments that you are exploring tend to stay the same.
I'm going to propose a counterpoint. You'll notice that houses like Pixar and Dreamworks are still using "animated" proportions and textures rather than pushing for photorealism. Why? Because there are stories for which photorealism is a detriment, rather than an asset. Because things that are funny when they happen to cartoon characters are disturbing or horrific when they happen to real people.
And that's before we even get to the uncanny valley, and how different people have different tolerances for said valley.
So Think about sims. Think about the goofy deaths. And think about how horrific that would look if someone actually suffered it in real life (the Murphy Bed Death comes to mind.) And then think do you really want to see that happen to your sim? Are you still going to be able to laugh at it? When we see these sorts of deaths in the movies, they're usually going for shock value rather than laughs.
I mean, I work with Daz Studio a lot. I'm very familiar with what's possible in terms of photorealism. Significantly more than the limitations of Unreal Engine. So my reluctance has nothing to do with knowing what can be done, and has everything to do with not wanting to see realistic sims suffer from horrific accidents and deaths - and I already don't like having my sims die except from old age. Toon rendering provides a kind of buffer and one that I'm kinda reluctant to let go of.
So far, everyone who has participated in the discussion has articulated their argument against cartoony and photorealistic with tenacity. I saw the trailer (yeah, I know) for Redfall during E3 last week. I observed the art direction as well as the character proportions and wondered if this is the middle ground people are looking for within this discussion? The Sims has always used normal proportions thus the discussion revolves around graphics.
I’ve shared visual representations of what I envisage/propose a next gen-sims could look like from an architectural/environment perspective and the actual sims. However, I haven’t seen anyone post any visuals for what’s going through their mind.
Not TS4/TS3, not photorealistic, but a definitive generational leap forward? If you have a visual representation that strikes this balance, please share it.
These are on the market now for Genesis 8/8.1
https://www.daz3d.com/toon-generations-4-essentials-for-genesis-8-males
3D Universe has some other characters too that are less toony, but still not what I'd consider photoreal (or even trying for photoreal)
https://www.daz3d.com/ceejay-bundle-for-genesis-8-males
https://www.daz3d.com/gayll-character-for-genesis-8-females
Their characters are, for me, right on that line between artistic and real, and I wouldn't mind if they went that far.
Storage: 150 GB??? This is like three times the storage of TS4 with all packs. A Sims game will never have such high requirements.
I think the girl that have been featured in the recent Unreal Engine 5 demo's kinda fits that balance. It feels like that's what the people at Epic was going for, something that reminded them a bit of their style they had in Fortnite, but more realistic.
On one hand I’d say disregard the storage because this varies between games.
However, when I consider the fidelity of geometry assets incoming with the deployment of technologies like Nanite, the heightened levels of world density that devs will realise and the likelihood of moving to 8K textures now that 4K gameplay is established and storage speed is no longer a limitation. On the other hand TS5 could require less, but all these aforementioned elements combined make 100GB+ plausible.
For reference RDR2 required the same 150GB in 2018.
This would make for an interesting poll:
The Sims 4 Ideas Corner
- 👕 [CAS] Male content | 💰 §1 Million Lifestyle | ♂️ Man lifestyle for The Sims | ♻️ Content from The Sims
- 🔨 [Build/Buy Mode] Ideas | 📱 Ideas from The Sims FreePlay | ✈️ Vacation : Gameplay update | 🥦 New meals
The Sims 4 General DiscussionThat picture reminds me of Sims3 and not Sims4 so I hope a new iteration doesn't go back to that. Somewhere in between would be better.
Would realistic Sims make a much greater demand on a computer though? Rather like the colour wheel adding too much to CAS did?
Sims can NEVER look like this. A very important thing about developing their appearence is to make it so their faces are flexible enough to be different from each other. They aren't supposed to have such a specific art-style because it makes it difficult for us to create Sims that don't look so much alike.
All I see in these pictures so far is that Disney, Pixar art style with the big eyes, glowy skin etc. If you notice a lot of characters from such movies or games look too similar because the art-style isn't as flexible.
If we want to have sims we can customize any way we like we need to stop taking inspiration from movies and other games and try to look at previous and current sims iterations and identify what could be done better.
I think sims could be done better if we had more detail. More detailed hair, real eyelashes, better lightning and shadows. Higher resolution textures. More skin details, skin that looks like real skin, more sliders for face and body.
The color wheel doesn't lag TS3 CAS - it's the loading of patterns and items with all their default colorings. Well, it used to anyway. I found out that if you install the game to an SSD and setting CAS items to "Compact" form in Mastercontroller, loading CAS items is a whole lot faster. Also installing a game booster like Razer Cortex removes build/buy lag as well.
I really hope that The Sims 5 will have CASt - the color wheel and pattern changer (including being able to add in your own patterns) - so we don't have to buy recolors and repatterned objects over and over like what's happening in TS4. In TS3, virtually every object is unique since it has CASt and you can just change those things instead of buying the same item over and over in static colors and patterns.
The weakness of TS3 CAS is CASt because the game couldn't handle the ton of presets (Patterns and clothes).
The Sims 4 Ideas Corner
- 👕 [CAS] Male content | 💰 §1 Million Lifestyle | ♂️ Man lifestyle for The Sims | ♻️ Content from The Sims
- 🔨 [Build/Buy Mode] Ideas | 📱 Ideas from The Sims FreePlay | ✈️ Vacation : Gameplay update | 🥦 New meals
The Sims 4 General DiscussionI think I killed it when I tried to put every Scottish tartan in it! 😥
I miss the physical discs for Sims 2 as they had leaflets in them about upcoming packs and eventually Sims 3.
I used to really enjoy going to buy the next Sims pack opening then and finding the leaflets etc. Buying online isn’t the same. 🙄
Yes, on the machines they recommended at the time. But today, I have no lag in TS3's CAS or CASt. It loads instantly unless I save millions of patterns I created from Maxis swatches. The more you save the more it has to render. Someone could create something new in CASt and not actually have to save it (but I'm always saving what I create) and have no problems on today's machines.
And I know it's not just my skill at it, cause I've tried in both TS4 and Skyrim, and had more distinct success capturing the essence of someone's features in Skyrim than in TS4. I've also noticed it's clearly not just me, as even when the official sims team does someone's look, there's is a certain genericness to it, and you'd think they have artists on hand who are more skilled at that than some rando like me who rarely does art at all.
Edit: I will add tho, I know more realistic graphics can suffer from a certain type of genericness in their own way. Like if everything is dependent on a limited number of presets (which can only be tweaked from their base values a little bit) then you're going to be very limited in what you can do with it. Like with Skyrim, I use a mod that adds a bunch of additional sliders, which greatly changes the degree to which you can go beyond the presets.
I find it very difficult to recreate existing people from movies, games etc. in sims4 because of the art style. You have to make them look more like comic book characters for that to work.
Yeah, that makes sense. I assume someone who is a skilled caricature artist would be better at working with the limitations of a character creator like ts4's in that regard, but I dunno, maybe even they'd be like "this is too limiting."
Pertaining to architecture, everyday it gets a little bit crazier in the land of UE5, but this is the most exemplary demo I’ve found this month: