You can complain that you can't live in vacation worlds all you like. Except that you kind of can. You can spend weeks in them, if you have the money. They are still worlds. And collectibles are more than just casting your rod.
Strangerville's story is not exactly thrilling but there's a new world to live in, not a Vacation world, and multiple NPCs.
Vampires were horribly nerfed - thanks to the minority of people pretending that occults are niche - but that's not the point. When they came, they were strong and cool. A new lifestate is nothing to be sneezed at.
Oh, I LOATHE Journey To Batuu. It's TERRIBLE. But it had a new world, a story, and story aspirations at least.
DHD has NO new world, NO new traits, NO new collectibles, NO new aspirations... On top of that, it's all built on programming that the game already has, and takes advantage of the Likes and Dislikes patch - specifically there's a whole category of Likes and Dislikes you can't even access without it. Oh, the BB stuff is pretty complex, but it's BB nonetheless. EA is known to put a limit on how much BB is allowed in a pack - not because it's hard on the budget, because the vast majority of BB items cannot even be interacted with beyond 'view', but to keep our bellies rumbling. The new type of shelves and wardrobe are cool, but I do not want to only have one style any more than I only want one type of cabinet.
What is in the pack is not bad. But it's grossly overstated as a Game Pack.
Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
Well I counted and unless I counted wrong it is like this.
Sims 4 Vampires has 130 new build and buy mode items, I didn't count CAS but it was big as well since it included the teeth and facial features as well as clothes and hair, it had the new occult, the new world, new aspirations, the strengths and weaknesses system, several new animations including fighting and probably more
Sims 4 Home Renovator has 135 new build and buy mode items. So only 5 more than vampires. The other features include the renovation likes and dislikes, the gig system which has been done in previous packs while the actual gig itself consists of you playing in buy mode which is in the base game and the reveal which is a social event like a party in which your clients do some facial expression and then you get a slideshow of the before and after pictures. The build and buy has some more new tools for building so I'll give them that.
IMO, in comparison I don't see the renovator pack having so much more build and buy mode items for the amount of other features it's lacking.
Well I counted and unless I counted wrong it is like this.
Sims 4 Vampires has 130 new build and buy mode items, I didn't count CAS but it was big as well since it included the teeth and facial features as well as clothes and hair, it had the new occult, the new world, new aspirations, the strengths and weaknesses system, several new animations including fighting and probably more
Sims 4 Home Renovator has 135 new build and buy mode items. So only 5 more than vampires. The other features include the renovation likes and dislikes, the gig system which has been done in previous packs while the actual gig itself consists of you playing in buy mode which is in the base game and the reveal which is a social event like a party in which your clients do some facial expression and then you get a slideshow of the before and after pictures. The build and buy has some more new tools for building so I'll give them that.
IMO, in comparison I don't see the renovator pack having so much more build and buy mode items for the amount of other features it's lacking.
Should the difficulty/cost in creating those objects factor in in some way? I don't know anything about video game design but some objects require more of the design budget than others. Modular furniture and kitchen sets for example.
Should the difficulty/cost in creating those objects factor in in some way? I don't know anything about video game design but some objects require more of the design budget than others. Modular furniture and kitchen sets for example.
@simgirl1010 Yes I agree and I will give them that. I just thought the pay-off for it wasn't as big. But yes I'm sure the modular stuff was difficult to make, no question.
The issue of how difficult/the cost of developing the packs makes all of this more complicated. Because for example, Vampires and JA both come with new kitchen stuff, specifically counters. And that’s the big baddie of b/b because it’s really several pieces in one. So DHD has one more kitchen set than them. And then two modular sofas. Which is why I also question if all of the resources used for making this modular stuff was worth it. Because the result is more modular furniture for less of everything else. It looks like at the end of the day, they decided that yes, the resources are best used on modular furniture because that’s a big component of this pack.
And then there’s the conversation of the preferences, as well as the bunk beds, being features that were going to be in this pack but also made base game. Well was that part of base game update budget or Game Pack budget.
Thing is, you can't just have one modular sofa in a single Game Pack. It would be like having the programming for Ladders but the only ladder is in Eco Lifestyles.
Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
My clueless question -- why would modular items cost that much more to develop? They already have modular items (counters) in the game. They do have to create a lot more pieces I guess.
Well I counted and unless I counted wrong it is like this.
Sims 4 Vampires has 130 new build and buy mode items, I didn't count CAS but it was big as well since it included the teeth and facial features as well as clothes and hair, it had the new occult, the new world, new aspirations, the strengths and weaknesses system, several new animations including fighting and probably more
Sims 4 Home Renovator has 135 new build and buy mode items. So only 5 more than vampires. The other features include the renovation likes and dislikes, the gig system which has been done in previous packs while the actual gig itself consists of you playing in buy mode which is in the base game and the reveal which is a social event like a party in which your clients do some facial expression and then you get a slideshow of the before and after pictures. The build and buy has some more new tools for building so I'll give them that.
IMO, in comparison I don't see the renovator pack having so much more build and buy mode items for the amount of other features it's lacking.
Should the difficulty/cost in creating those objects factor in in some way? I don't know anything about video game design but some objects require more of the design budget than others. Modular furniture and kitchen sets for example.
I feel that the pack price should be designed for what it offers to the customer. We don't know how much development that goes into these packs so even if a fair bit of development probably went into making the career with build mode integration and the modular furniture that's their problem and they should plan so that the pack quality and the amount of content in their packs doesn't suffer because of it. EA should cover the costs, not cut corners in order to make a profit at the expense of people buying and playing their packs.
Some packs will cost more than others, that's just how it is, we should not be the ones that pay for it.
My clueless question -- why would modular items cost that more to develop? They already have modular items (counters) in the game. They do have to create a lot more pieces I guess.
The difference between Modular Sofas and Modular Counters is actually quite big - counters don't automatically fit together, they're tables that line up if you alter the settings. And their only purpose is putting things on them or cleaning them. On the other hand, Sofas have Sims actively using them. It's the same theory but it does require different programming, and each time you make one, you need to make all the pieces. So I will allow that it's not a walk in the park.
However, it's not enough to justify the price of the pack. We need more than one type of modular sofa, and it would be nice for the previous packs to get some of their sofas done up. But EA never goes back to old packs.
Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
Well I counted and unless I counted wrong it is like this.
Sims 4 Vampires has 130 new build and buy mode items, I didn't count CAS but it was big as well since it included the teeth and facial features as well as clothes and hair, it had the new occult, the new world, new aspirations, the strengths and weaknesses system, several new animations including fighting and probably more
Sims 4 Home Renovator has 135 new build and buy mode items. So only 5 more than vampires. The other features include the renovation likes and dislikes, the gig system which has been done in previous packs while the actual gig itself consists of you playing in buy mode which is in the base game and the reveal which is a social event like a party in which your clients do some facial expression and then you get a slideshow of the before and after pictures. The build and buy has some more new tools for building so I'll give them that.
IMO, in comparison I don't see the renovator pack having so much more build and buy mode items for the amount of other features it's lacking.
Should the difficulty/cost in creating those objects factor in in some way? I don't know anything about video game design but some objects require more of the design budget than others. Modular furniture and kitchen sets for example.
Basically I would say that this shouldn't be the customer concern, the fact that it is, just shows that the customer sees it as a big change and tries to find reasoning. But the sofas are much more complex than the kitchen, not only because it's not just a box and have more functionality than the kitchen, but also because they all possible combinations that are to be considered and the fact that all pieces work on their own in a pleasant visual way.
The issue of how difficult/the cost of developing the packs makes all of this more complicated. Because for example, Vampires and JA both come with new kitchen stuff, specifically counters. And that’s the big baddie of b/b because it’s really several pieces in one. So DHD has one more kitchen set than them. And then two modular sofas. Which is why I also question if all of the resources used for making this modular stuff was worth it. Because the result is more modular furniture for less of everything else. It looks like at the end of the day, they decided that yes, the resources are best used on modular furniture because that’s a big component of this pack.
And then there’s the conversation of the preferences, as well as the bunk beds, being features that were going to be in this pack but also made base game. Well was that part of base game update budget or Game Pack budget.
The sofas are the new big baddies. Preferences, bunk beds, the modularity of everything that was silently overhauled (you will see that it's not only the bunk beds and modular shelves that have that glow outline now, other things have it too). It's very hard to judge from where the budget came from, it's not unusual for the things like that for it to be split tho. But it is a complex conversation to have, especially from the side lines and that's why a more "gimmiky" categories were created. Neither DHD nor Paranormal fit those categories (it's not just the fact that Paranormal had a career) in the way people became used to them. Paranormal just had more than expected while DHD had less than expected. I dunno, I'm kinda curious what the expansion pack will be all things considering and will be the DHD a one off thing and if so, because it was intended or because of the reception?
Well I counted and unless I counted wrong it is like this.
Sims 4 Vampires has 130 new build and buy mode items, I didn't count CAS but it was big as well since it included the teeth and facial features as well as clothes and hair, it had the new occult, the new world, new aspirations, the strengths and weaknesses system, several new animations including fighting and probably more
Sims 4 Home Renovator has 135 new build and buy mode items. So only 5 more than vampires. The other features include the renovation likes and dislikes, the gig system which has been done in previous packs while the actual gig itself consists of you playing in buy mode which is in the base game and the reveal which is a social event like a party in which your clients do some facial expression and then you get a slideshow of the before and after pictures. The build and buy has some more new tools for building so I'll give them that.
IMO, in comparison I don't see the renovator pack having so much more build and buy mode items for the amount of other features it's lacking.
Should the difficulty/cost in creating those objects factor in in some way? I don't know anything about video game design but some objects require more of the design budget than others. Modular furniture and kitchen sets for example.
You're right, kitchen sets and cabinets arguably cost more to implement because each piece has to be done multiple times.
From a game design point of view it's a lot of work, but from a players point of view it goes unnoticed. It FEELS like we're being shorted.
Had they thrown in a new trait or world I would've been more inclined. I feel like shopaholic or frugal would have fit the pack quite nicely.
Well I counted and unless I counted wrong it is like this.
Sims 4 Vampires has 130 new build and buy mode items, I didn't count CAS but it was big as well since it included the teeth and facial features as well as clothes and hair, it had the new occult, the new world, new aspirations, the strengths and weaknesses system, several new animations including fighting and probably more
Sims 4 Home Renovator has 135 new build and buy mode items. So only 5 more than vampires. The other features include the renovation likes and dislikes, the gig system which has been done in previous packs while the actual gig itself consists of you playing in buy mode which is in the base game and the reveal which is a social event like a party in which your clients do some facial expression and then you get a slideshow of the before and after pictures. The build and buy has some more new tools for building so I'll give them that.
IMO, in comparison I don't see the renovator pack having so much more build and buy mode items for the amount of other features it's lacking.
Should the difficulty/cost in creating those objects factor in in some way? I don't know anything about video game design but some objects require more of the design budget than others. Modular furniture and kitchen sets for example.
Basically I would say that this shouldn't be the customer concern, the fact that it is, just shows that the customer sees it as a big change and tries to find reasoning. But the sofas are much more complex than the kitchen, not only because it's not just a box and have more functionality than the kitchen, but also because they all possible combinations that are to be considered and the fact that all pieces work on their own in a pleasant visual way.
The issue of how difficult/the cost of developing the packs makes all of this more complicated. Because for example, Vampires and JA both come with new kitchen stuff, specifically counters. And that’s the big baddie of b/b because it’s really several pieces in one. So DHD has one more kitchen set than them. And then two modular sofas. Which is why I also question if all of the resources used for making this modular stuff was worth it. Because the result is more modular furniture for less of everything else. It looks like at the end of the day, they decided that yes, the resources are best used on modular furniture because that’s a big component of this pack.
And then there’s the conversation of the preferences, as well as the bunk beds, being features that were going to be in this pack but also made base game. Well was that part of base game update budget or Game Pack budget.
The sofas are the new big baddies. Preferences, bunk beds, the modularity of everything that was silently overhauled (you will see that it's not only the bunk beds and modular shelves that have that glow outline now, other things have it too). It's very hard to judge from where the budget came from, it's not unusual for the things like that for it to be split tho. But it is a complex conversation to have, especially from the side lines and that's why a more "gimmiky" categories were created. Neither DHD nor Paranormal fit those categories (it's not just the fact that Paranormal had a career) in the way people became used to them. Paranormal just had more than expected while DHD had less than expected. I dunno, I'm kinda curious what the expansion pack will be all things considering and will be the DHD a one off thing and if so, because it was intended or because of the reception?
The new sofas aren't that great though. Certain pieces lack basic functionality. For example, sims cannot talk and use the chaise longue pieces at the same time.
I usually just read and don't put much comment. Sims for me is a game I come back to when something new comes out or when I just have a creative bug of some kind. Or high stress life moment cause I can just turn my brain off and sink into a happy land.
That said, I have every pack, game/stuff, kits and expansions. It's an investment and considerable so yes, I expect value for my purchase, not to be taken advantage of by game developers (the company, not the gurus, they get their orders, I know) who have realized that many will purchase the content if it's new even if it is bad. That may work for a time, but eventually it will sink. And for those out there in case you are reading, more and more indie starters are popping, and there is a threat of actual competition, so I would say disappointing your players like this is ill advise.
This game pack had room for IMMENSE potential! When I first saw the trailer, I was expecting something entirely different! Sure, the build/buy mode stuff and SOME of the CAS stuff is nice, but I can get that from FREE cc. You boasted inspiration from all the popular renovation shows on television and honestly, I have to wonder if you have watched any of them. You could have a simple animation to discuss in a meeting, and work a gig over several days, much like they do on a police case, for example. Go home, draft some sketches (that you can then put on the wall), empty the room and let the sims pick up a paint roller, use their painting skills and paint a darn wall. If they suck at painting, that wall looks like a picasso. Include items that can be crafted on a work bench, or even have rabbit hole hires over the phone or computer, like sending an electrician to re-wire the room, where if you hire the cheap option like Take-a-shock, the lights flicker and appliance have a tag that puts them at high risk of electrocuting a sim, while expensive Energen Co. will do the work pristine. Same with plumbing. And this is all ideas on the cuff. I'm sure if you survey the community, of even just read this thread, you'll have hundreds of things that wouldn't be that complex to include.
If the gameplay had been rich, I could go without a small world (but at least have a pre-designed crap home or two), but it's not. So a GOOD small world would also be acceptable (but not preferred). This, is disappointing.
Well I counted and unless I counted wrong it is like this.
Sims 4 Vampires has 130 new build and buy mode items, I didn't count CAS but it was big as well since it included the teeth and facial features as well as clothes and hair, it had the new occult, the new world, new aspirations, the strengths and weaknesses system, several new animations including fighting and probably more
Sims 4 Home Renovator has 135 new build and buy mode items. So only 5 more than vampires. The other features include the renovation likes and dislikes, the gig system which has been done in previous packs while the actual gig itself consists of you playing in buy mode which is in the base game and the reveal which is a social event like a party in which your clients do some facial expression and then you get a slideshow of the before and after pictures. The build and buy has some more new tools for building so I'll give them that.
IMO, in comparison I don't see the renovator pack having so much more build and buy mode items for the amount of other features it's lacking.
Should the difficulty/cost in creating those objects factor in in some way? I don't know anything about video game design but some objects require more of the design budget than others. Modular furniture and kitchen sets for example.
I feel that the pack price should be designed for what it offers to the customer. We don't know how much development that goes into these packs so even if a fair bit of development probably went into making the career with build mode integration and the modular furniture that's their problem and they should plan so that the pack quality and the amount of content in their packs doesn't suffer because of it. EA should cover the costs, not cut corners in order to make a profit at the expense of people buying and playing their packs.
Some packs will cost more than others, that's just how it is, we should not be the ones that pay for it.
Exactly! I'm a customer, a regular player with no knowledge of programming, as the majority of people are. I don't care if modular furniture is hard to make... what i know is that they're offering me modular furniture + as much other furniture as other packs + one career so badly made that you have to pretend that you're renovating a specific room when requested, cause the game itself won't recognize if you're doing it right or not...
Is that worth a game pack price tag?
If modular furniture is so hard to do that it makes them offer us so few for so much, then they should have taken more reasonable decisions...
A modular furniture kit would sell very well for example... but they shouldn't have used a gamepack budget for that...
Nonetheless, all this modular programming is something that can be used over and over again in multiple packs both future and past (if EA could be relied upon to make any changes to sofas in past packs or for that matter in the Base Game), and by extension did not need to be the job of the Game Pack guys.
I can appreciate that each piece has to be made. I can, unfortunately, see that having many modular sofas will cut back on how many actual objects we can have in a pack. That includes decor, clothes, and functional objects - and gameplay in general. EA is probably waiting for people to buy DHD before they give us a base game modular Sofa. Modular sofas look nice but are very inefficient.
Considering we got sideboard and cabinets in Country Kitchen, my Psychic Brain of Psychicness predicts that we'll get more modular sofas in future Kit Packs.
Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
I would’ve preferred if they scrapped the career altogether from the pack and just made us pay $15-20 for Buy Mode objects. I’d need for them to add more items, like refrigerators and more sectional options, a full bathroom set, stuff like that.
I feel like this pack is a Kit + Stuff Pack but they made it a game pack because of the career which in my opinion is what ruins it. Such a shame.
Thinking about it, the quality of GPs has gone south in the last couple of years in general. Realm of Magic had a cool concept but was quite empty, Batuu is an abomination that should never be repeated, and now this.
Funnily enough, SPs have gone up in quality on the same time frame. Tiny Living was a great 'challenge pack', Nifty Knitting was a voted pack and seems to actually have some thought put into it, and Paranormal is objectively one of the best SPs in terms of content and value.
EPs... are still glorified world packs pretty much.
So I'm not sure what to think of it. It's kind of weird that I'm most excited for stuff packs lately.
Thinking about it, the quality of GPs has gone south in the last couple of years in general. Realm of Magic had a cool concept but was quite empty, Batuu is an abomination that should never be repeated, and now this.
Funnily enough, SPs have gone up in quality on the same time frame. Tiny Living was a great 'challenge pack', Nifty Knitting was a voted pack and seems to actually have some thought put into it, and Paranormal is objectively one of the best SPs in terms of content and value.
EPs... are still glorified world packs pretty much.
So I'm not sure what to think of it. It's kind of weird that I'm most excited for stuff packs lately.
I don't know if this is just a Coincidence or what but the packs Dine Out, Vampires, Parenthood, Realm of Magic, Tiny Living, Knifty Knitting and Paranormal has SimGuruNinja lead them or atleast one of the main producers. If you are looking for Live Mode Content then He is the Guru. My only gripe is why haven't they moved him into Expansion Packs? When he lead Get Famous, while the pack lacks building aspects (especially the new world) the gameplay on that pack is Huge with many opportunities. I'm still confused why they moved a Producer who has great talent for producing/leading a development for Live Mode focused packs to be transferred to their Stuff Pack Team.
After seeing several reviews I still think this pack has too little gameplay. I think the size of the pack is determined by the price to make it, not by the amount of gameplay vs build mode. Due to so many modular furniture, I think this pack is too big for a stuff pack, but I don't think it has enough going on for a game pack.
My problem is the fact that there is barely anything you can exclusively with this pack.
Sure we have a new career but we can already do very similar things in the game already.
We already have careers that allow to pick gigs (freelance careers, acting career)
We already have careers where we visit sims homes (police and paranormal)
We can already build on the lots of other sims if we want to
We can already take screenshot of our builds.
We can pick likes and dislikes for 3 categories for our sims in base game. The new decor style is fun but not game changing.
Even the objects (which are tempting) are mainly cosmetic. You can already build a walk in closet with the base game shoe racks and clothing racks. The new ones look nicer but that's it. The separate cooking top and oven allow nicer placement but the actual cooking is the same. And the modular sofa don't change the way sims use a living room, you just can't multitask on the chaise longe. Once you have renovated the home, your actual game play won't change. The only new gameplay possibility is the play tent that can be used by toddlers and children together.
Past game packs always had some gameplay that was exclusive to them. You can do these things without the pack. I used to like game packs, some of them are more essential to my game than expansion packs. I can only hope this won't be a new trend. Batuu had the excuse that Disney would not allow us the freedom to play any story in their world. But what is the excuse for this pack? I think this is partly the result of many gamechangers focusing on just building and barely playing. Let's hope the next ones will be better.
Well I counted and unless I counted wrong it is like this.
Sims 4 Vampires has 130 new build and buy mode items, I didn't count CAS but it was big as well since it included the teeth and facial features as well as clothes and hair, it had the new occult, the new world, new aspirations, the strengths and weaknesses system, several new animations including fighting and probably more
Sims 4 Home Renovator has 135 new build and buy mode items. So only 5 more than vampires. The other features include the renovation likes and dislikes, the gig system which has been done in previous packs while the actual gig itself consists of you playing in buy mode which is in the base game and the reveal which is a social event like a party in which your clients do some facial expression and then you get a slideshow of the before and after pictures. The build and buy has some more new tools for building so I'll give them that.
IMO, in comparison I don't see the renovator pack having so much more build and buy mode items for the amount of other features it's lacking.
Should the difficulty/cost in creating those objects factor in in some way? I don't know anything about video game design but some objects require more of the design budget than others. Modular furniture and kitchen sets for example.
I feel that the pack price should be designed for what it offers to the customer. We don't know how much development that goes into these packs so even if a fair bit of development probably went into making the career with build mode integration and the modular furniture that's their problem and they should plan so that the pack quality and the amount of content in their packs doesn't suffer because of it. EA should cover the costs, not cut corners in order to make a profit at the expense of people buying and playing their packs.
Some packs will cost more than others, that's just how it is, we should not be the ones that pay for it.
Exactly! I'm a customer, a regular player with no knowledge of programming, as the majority of people are. I don't care if modular furniture is hard to make... what i know is that they're offering me modular furniture + as much other furniture as other packs + one career so badly made that you have to pretend that you're renovating a specific room when requested, cause the game itself won't recognize if you're doing it right or not...
Is that worth a game pack price tag?
If modular furniture is so hard to do that it makes them offer us so few for so much, then they should have taken more reasonable decisions...
A modular furniture kit would sell very well for example... but they shouldn't have used a gamepack budget for that...
Yeah, it's their job to plan and design the pack so that it's worth the price tag to the customer. I would assume that they have built their teams so they are able to actually make game packs and expansion packs with a fair amount of content and so that people can work with their specific roles, like having people that work specifically on world building for example. Same with artists, when they are done with a pack they go to the next one so that they can work on that one They don't get told "sorry, we ran out of budget, you have to sit still and do nothing for this pack". That would just be a waste of money and resources.
Well I counted and unless I counted wrong it is like this.
Sims 4 Vampires has 130 new build and buy mode items, I didn't count CAS but it was big as well since it included the teeth and facial features as well as clothes and hair, it had the new occult, the new world, new aspirations, the strengths and weaknesses system, several new animations including fighting and probably more
Sims 4 Home Renovator has 135 new build and buy mode items. So only 5 more than vampires. The other features include the renovation likes and dislikes, the gig system which has been done in previous packs while the actual gig itself consists of you playing in buy mode which is in the base game and the reveal which is a social event like a party in which your clients do some facial expression and then you get a slideshow of the before and after pictures. The build and buy has some more new tools for building so I'll give them that.
IMO, in comparison I don't see the renovator pack having so much more build and buy mode items for the amount of other features it's lacking.
Should the difficulty/cost in creating those objects factor in in some way? I don't know anything about video game design but some objects require more of the design budget than others. Modular furniture and kitchen sets for example.
I feel that the pack price should be designed for what it offers to the customer. We don't know how much development that goes into these packs so even if a fair bit of development probably went into making the career with build mode integration and the modular furniture that's their problem and they should plan so that the pack quality and the amount of content in their packs doesn't suffer because of it. EA should cover the costs, not cut corners in order to make a profit at the expense of people buying and playing their packs.
Some packs will cost more than others, that's just how it is, we should not be the ones that pay for it.
Exactly! I'm a customer, a regular player with no knowledge of programming, as the majority of people are. I don't care if modular furniture is hard to make... what i know is that they're offering me modular furniture + as much other furniture as other packs + one career so badly made that you have to pretend that you're renovating a specific room when requested, cause the game itself won't recognize if you're doing it right or not...
Is that worth a game pack price tag?
If modular furniture is so hard to do that it makes them offer us so few for so much, then they should have taken more reasonable decisions...
A modular furniture kit would sell very well for example... but they shouldn't have used a gamepack budget for that...
Yeah, it's their job to plan and design the pack so that it's worth the price tag to the customer. I would assume that they have built their teams so they are able to actually make game packs and expansion packs with a fair amount of content and so that people can work with their specific roles, like having people that work specifically on world building for example. Same with artists, when they are done with a pack they go to the next one so that they can work on that one They don't get told "sorry, we ran out of budget, you have to sit still and do nothing for this pack". That would just be a waste of money and resources.
Its the use of the term "budget" that confuses me. Aren't these people hired full time to work for EA regardless of what they are doing all day.... whether it be 8 hours working on swatches, or 8 hours working on modular furniture?
And what happens to them after the pack is created? Are they fired? Told to go home and watch TV without pay until the next GP is needed?
I mean seriously, are these people full time workers or not? If they are, then a 40 hour work week is a 40 hour work week regardless of what they are doing on their work computers.
The only argument I can see out of all this is the time it takes to create 1 piece of coding in comparison to another. But even that is a weak argument being that these people are programmers. It's what they do for a living. Either they can do it, or they can't. I don't think they are all sitting in the board room every day working together on a code puzzle hoping to be the first one to put it all together and snag a prize. They likely talk about the best ways to implement each new code in relation to the code they already have, but once they decide on their ideas I don't think "time" plays much of a factor in getting the code together and implemented.
And being that they are all going to be payed for a 40 hour week anyway regardless, I can't see budget being a major factor either. Unless of course they all work part time... on call when needed.
Comments
Strangerville's story is not exactly thrilling but there's a new world to live in, not a Vacation world, and multiple NPCs.
Vampires were horribly nerfed - thanks to the minority of people pretending that occults are niche - but that's not the point. When they came, they were strong and cool. A new lifestate is nothing to be sneezed at.
Oh, I LOATHE Journey To Batuu. It's TERRIBLE. But it had a new world, a story, and story aspirations at least.
DHD has NO new world, NO new traits, NO new collectibles, NO new aspirations... On top of that, it's all built on programming that the game already has, and takes advantage of the Likes and Dislikes patch - specifically there's a whole category of Likes and Dislikes you can't even access without it. Oh, the BB stuff is pretty complex, but it's BB nonetheless. EA is known to put a limit on how much BB is allowed in a pack - not because it's hard on the budget, because the vast majority of BB items cannot even be interacted with beyond 'view', but to keep our bellies rumbling. The new type of shelves and wardrobe are cool, but I do not want to only have one style any more than I only want one type of cabinet.
What is in the pack is not bad. But it's grossly overstated as a Game Pack.
Sims 4 Vampires has 130 new build and buy mode items, I didn't count CAS but it was big as well since it included the teeth and facial features as well as clothes and hair, it had the new occult, the new world, new aspirations, the strengths and weaknesses system, several new animations including fighting and probably more
Sims 4 Home Renovator has 135 new build and buy mode items. So only 5 more than vampires. The other features include the renovation likes and dislikes, the gig system which has been done in previous packs while the actual gig itself consists of you playing in buy mode which is in the base game and the reveal which is a social event like a party in which your clients do some facial expression and then you get a slideshow of the before and after pictures. The build and buy has some more new tools for building so I'll give them that.
IMO, in comparison I don't see the renovator pack having so much more build and buy mode items for the amount of other features it's lacking.
Should the difficulty/cost in creating those objects factor in in some way? I don't know anything about video game design but some objects require more of the design budget than others. Modular furniture and kitchen sets for example.
@simgirl1010 Yes I agree and I will give them that. I just thought the pay-off for it wasn't as big. But yes I'm sure the modular stuff was difficult to make, no question.
It's a bad price.
Have we not shelled out enough, EA? Is Sims 4 not expensive enough without cheaping out on content too?
And then there’s the conversation of the preferences, as well as the bunk beds, being features that were going to be in this pack but also made base game. Well was that part of base game update budget or Game Pack budget.
edit: word
I feel that the pack price should be designed for what it offers to the customer. We don't know how much development that goes into these packs so even if a fair bit of development probably went into making the career with build mode integration and the modular furniture that's their problem and they should plan so that the pack quality and the amount of content in their packs doesn't suffer because of it. EA should cover the costs, not cut corners in order to make a profit at the expense of people buying and playing their packs.
Some packs will cost more than others, that's just how it is, we should not be the ones that pay for it.
The difference between Modular Sofas and Modular Counters is actually quite big - counters don't automatically fit together, they're tables that line up if you alter the settings. And their only purpose is putting things on them or cleaning them. On the other hand, Sofas have Sims actively using them. It's the same theory but it does require different programming, and each time you make one, you need to make all the pieces. So I will allow that it's not a walk in the park.
However, it's not enough to justify the price of the pack. We need more than one type of modular sofa, and it would be nice for the previous packs to get some of their sofas done up. But EA never goes back to old packs.
This exactly is the point I've been trying to make.
For what it's worth, each part of the sofa or cabinets is classed as an item as each one has to be made.
Basically I would say that this shouldn't be the customer concern, the fact that it is, just shows that the customer sees it as a big change and tries to find reasoning. But the sofas are much more complex than the kitchen, not only because it's not just a box and have more functionality than the kitchen, but also because they all possible combinations that are to be considered and the fact that all pieces work on their own in a pleasant visual way.
The sofas are the new big baddies. Preferences, bunk beds, the modularity of everything that was silently overhauled (you will see that it's not only the bunk beds and modular shelves that have that glow outline now, other things have it too). It's very hard to judge from where the budget came from, it's not unusual for the things like that for it to be split tho. But it is a complex conversation to have, especially from the side lines and that's why a more "gimmiky" categories were created. Neither DHD nor Paranormal fit those categories (it's not just the fact that Paranormal had a career) in the way people became used to them. Paranormal just had more than expected while DHD had less than expected. I dunno, I'm kinda curious what the expansion pack will be all things considering and will be the DHD a one off thing and if so, because it was intended or because of the reception?
You're right, kitchen sets and cabinets arguably cost more to implement because each piece has to be done multiple times.
From a game design point of view it's a lot of work, but from a players point of view it goes unnoticed. It FEELS like we're being shorted.
Had they thrown in a new trait or world I would've been more inclined. I feel like shopaholic or frugal would have fit the pack quite nicely.
The new sofas aren't that great though. Certain pieces lack basic functionality. For example, sims cannot talk and use the chaise longue pieces at the same time.
That said, I have every pack, game/stuff, kits and expansions. It's an investment and considerable so yes, I expect value for my purchase, not to be taken advantage of by game developers (the company, not the gurus, they get their orders, I know) who have realized that many will purchase the content if it's new even if it is bad. That may work for a time, but eventually it will sink. And for those out there in case you are reading, more and more indie starters are popping, and there is a threat of actual competition, so I would say disappointing your players like this is ill advise.
This game pack had room for IMMENSE potential! When I first saw the trailer, I was expecting something entirely different! Sure, the build/buy mode stuff and SOME of the CAS stuff is nice, but I can get that from FREE cc. You boasted inspiration from all the popular renovation shows on television and honestly, I have to wonder if you have watched any of them. You could have a simple animation to discuss in a meeting, and work a gig over several days, much like they do on a police case, for example. Go home, draft some sketches (that you can then put on the wall), empty the room and let the sims pick up a paint roller, use their painting skills and paint a darn wall. If they suck at painting, that wall looks like a picasso. Include items that can be crafted on a work bench, or even have rabbit hole hires over the phone or computer, like sending an electrician to re-wire the room, where if you hire the cheap option like Take-a-shock, the lights flicker and appliance have a tag that puts them at high risk of electrocuting a sim, while expensive Energen Co. will do the work pristine. Same with plumbing. And this is all ideas on the cuff. I'm sure if you survey the community, of even just read this thread, you'll have hundreds of things that wouldn't be that complex to include.
If the gameplay had been rich, I could go without a small world (but at least have a pre-designed crap home or two), but it's not. So a GOOD small world would also be acceptable (but not preferred). This, is disappointing.
I have spoken.
Exactly! I'm a customer, a regular player with no knowledge of programming, as the majority of people are. I don't care if modular furniture is hard to make... what i know is that they're offering me modular furniture + as much other furniture as other packs + one career so badly made that you have to pretend that you're renovating a specific room when requested, cause the game itself won't recognize if you're doing it right or not...
Is that worth a game pack price tag?
If modular furniture is so hard to do that it makes them offer us so few for so much, then they should have taken more reasonable decisions...
A modular furniture kit would sell very well for example... but they shouldn't have used a gamepack budget for that...
Nonetheless, all this modular programming is something that can be used over and over again in multiple packs both future and past (if EA could be relied upon to make any changes to sofas in past packs or for that matter in the Base Game), and by extension did not need to be the job of the Game Pack guys.
I can appreciate that each piece has to be made. I can, unfortunately, see that having many modular sofas will cut back on how many actual objects we can have in a pack. That includes decor, clothes, and functional objects - and gameplay in general. EA is probably waiting for people to buy DHD before they give us a base game modular Sofa. Modular sofas look nice but are very inefficient.
Considering we got sideboard and cabinets in Country Kitchen, my Psychic Brain of Psychicness predicts that we'll get more modular sofas in future Kit Packs.
I feel like this pack is a Kit + Stuff Pack but they made it a game pack because of the career which in my opinion is what ruins it. Such a shame.
Funnily enough, SPs have gone up in quality on the same time frame. Tiny Living was a great 'challenge pack', Nifty Knitting was a voted pack and seems to actually have some thought put into it, and Paranormal is objectively one of the best SPs in terms of content and value.
EPs... are still glorified world packs pretty much.
So I'm not sure what to think of it. It's kind of weird that I'm most excited for stuff packs lately.
I don't know if this is just a Coincidence or what but the packs Dine Out, Vampires, Parenthood, Realm of Magic, Tiny Living, Knifty Knitting and Paranormal has SimGuruNinja lead them or atleast one of the main producers. If you are looking for Live Mode Content then He is the Guru. My only gripe is why haven't they moved him into Expansion Packs? When he lead Get Famous, while the pack lacks building aspects (especially the new world) the gameplay on that pack is Huge with many opportunities. I'm still confused why they moved a Producer who has great talent for producing/leading a development for Live Mode focused packs to be transferred to their Stuff Pack Team.
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/924539/features-that-needs-depth-and-ways-to-improve
My problem is the fact that there is barely anything you can exclusively with this pack.
Sure we have a new career but we can already do very similar things in the game already.
We already have careers that allow to pick gigs (freelance careers, acting career)
We already have careers where we visit sims homes (police and paranormal)
We can already build on the lots of other sims if we want to
We can already take screenshot of our builds.
We can pick likes and dislikes for 3 categories for our sims in base game. The new decor style is fun but not game changing.
Even the objects (which are tempting) are mainly cosmetic. You can already build a walk in closet with the base game shoe racks and clothing racks. The new ones look nicer but that's it. The separate cooking top and oven allow nicer placement but the actual cooking is the same. And the modular sofa don't change the way sims use a living room, you just can't multitask on the chaise longe. Once you have renovated the home, your actual game play won't change. The only new gameplay possibility is the play tent that can be used by toddlers and children together.
Past game packs always had some gameplay that was exclusive to them. You can do these things without the pack. I used to like game packs, some of them are more essential to my game than expansion packs. I can only hope this won't be a new trend. Batuu had the excuse that Disney would not allow us the freedom to play any story in their world. But what is the excuse for this pack? I think this is partly the result of many gamechangers focusing on just building and barely playing. Let's hope the next ones will be better.
Yeah, it's their job to plan and design the pack so that it's worth the price tag to the customer. I would assume that they have built their teams so they are able to actually make game packs and expansion packs with a fair amount of content and so that people can work with their specific roles, like having people that work specifically on world building for example. Same with artists, when they are done with a pack they go to the next one so that they can work on that one They don't get told "sorry, we ran out of budget, you have to sit still and do nothing for this pack". That would just be a waste of money and resources.
Its the use of the term "budget" that confuses me. Aren't these people hired full time to work for EA regardless of what they are doing all day.... whether it be 8 hours working on swatches, or 8 hours working on modular furniture?
And what happens to them after the pack is created? Are they fired? Told to go home and watch TV without pay until the next GP is needed?
I mean seriously, are these people full time workers or not? If they are, then a 40 hour work week is a 40 hour work week regardless of what they are doing on their work computers.
The only argument I can see out of all this is the time it takes to create 1 piece of coding in comparison to another. But even that is a weak argument being that these people are programmers. It's what they do for a living. Either they can do it, or they can't. I don't think they are all sitting in the board room every day working together on a code puzzle hoping to be the first one to put it all together and snag a prize. They likely talk about the best ways to implement each new code in relation to the code they already have, but once they decide on their ideas I don't think "time" plays much of a factor in getting the code together and implemented.
And being that they are all going to be payed for a 40 hour week anyway regardless, I can't see budget being a major factor either. Unless of course they all work part time... on call when needed.