So who do you want represented? You talk about how you feel excluded and left out but you don't actually say what representation you want in the game.
It's not about "who". At least that is what I think. It's about represented as a whole when it comes to creating Sims. It bothers me that the game is becoming political - as in American politics. I'm not ashamed to say that my skin color and hair color is not all that well represented, and what someone else said, male sims. I like that they add clothing and furniture styles from different part of the world but creating a perfect copy of yourself - is it necessary for the game to be good? I much rather they spend time and effort on the game play itself rather than trying to be politically correct.
@manannan Thanks for the reply! Interesting to read your opinion on the matter. Sorry for waffling, I wanted to make my reply sound as polite as possible.
OP says, 'What other groups are you promoting?' so I am guessing it's likely to be about the 'who'. The thing is, a lot of people have said to me personally that they feel excluded because of people like me, but they don't explain what changes they would like to see, specifically, or what groups they'd like to see more rep for.
I personally disagree; I do not see how a couple of optional Pride T-shirts, optional LGBT+ Sims and optional and Pride Flags is 'becoming political', IMO. If people don't want LGBT+ Sims, then they can choose not to play them, they can choose not to use the flags or the T-shirts as well if they want. The LGBT+ Sims and content are entirely optional; the power is in the hands of the player, to choose what kind of Sims they do and don't play as in their save file. Unfortunately, the trouble with people wanting games to be less 'politically correct', is that what is considered 'too much' representation is going to be very different from player to player. Even the smallest, most optional addition might be 'too much' for somebody.
I don't ever make Sims who are like me- I already have to put up with myself all the time and that's bad enough, I don't want me in the game I play to relax! : P Joking aside I know some people do, and it's good that progress has been made in allowing people from different backgrounds to make Sims like themselves. Aside from Sim-selves, not everyone wants to make a 'perfect copy of themselves', some just want to make Sims who share their experience somehow. It can feel validating and refreshing to some people. As a side point, I personally don't think there's any such thing as too much representation, especially for a sandbox game. The whole idea of sandbox games is the choice, the (comparative to other game types) creativity and the breadth of things to do and make, so it makes sense that creators of such a game would do their part to include as many different experiences as possible.
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts with me. I will say no more on the matter since I've summed up my outlook on the overall matter entirely, but I really appreciate your response and sharing your ideas.
I agree with Snowbunny. The LGBT community is important to have in the game because LGBT people are a minority that needs to be accepted for who they are. Whether they are straight, gay, bisexual, lesbian and transgender.
I have created transgender sims a lot, lesbian sims and gay sims. Adding the LGBT people in the The Sims 4 game is great, having LGBT Sims adds diversity in the game.
In the last livestream about the next patch, when the Sim Gurus addressed our issues we brought up in the forums, one of them was about Whims. They basically said they’d like to revisit the Whims system someday maybe, but they were too busy working on free updates with more representation. It’s not a destination, it’s a journey, they say... so does that mean they will never get to whims because they will never be done with representation?
In the last livestream about the next patch, when the Sim Gurus addressed our issues we brought up in the forums, one of them was about Whims. They basically said they’d like to revisit the Whims system someday maybe, but they were too busy working on free updates with more representation. It’s not a destination, it’s a journey, they say... so does that mean they will never get to whims because they will never be done with representation?
I took their comments to mean "Pronouns and whims are both never coming because they don't make us money"
In the last livestream about the next patch, when the Sim Gurus addressed our issues we brought up in the forums, one of them was about Whims. They basically said they’d like to revisit the Whims system someday maybe, but they were too busy working on free updates with more representation. It’s not a destination, it’s a journey, they say... so does that mean they will never get to whims because they will never be done with representation?
I took their comments to mean "Pronouns and whims are both never coming because they don't make us money"
My interpretation is more “we’re figuring out what it would involve to work towards updating pronouns” and “we aren’t touching whims anytime soon, if ever” so definitely more favorable towards the pronouns. I have no problem with them doing that, as long as the entire system doesn’t go neutral. It just doesn’t seem right to abandon the whole whims system a couple years in, and then claim it’s happened because of a more recent pickup in representation.
In the last livestream about the next patch, when the Sim Gurus addressed our issues we brought up in the forums, one of them was about Whims. They basically said they’d like to revisit the Whims system someday maybe, but they were too busy working on free updates with more representation. It’s not a destination, it’s a journey, they say... so does that mean they will never get to whims because they will never be done with representation?
I took their comments to mean "Pronouns and whims are both never coming because they don't make us money"
My interpretation is more “we’re figuring out what it would involve to work towards updating pronouns” and “we aren’t touching whims anytime soon, if ever” so definitely more favorable towards the pronouns. I have no problem with them doing that, as long as the entire system doesn’t go neutral. It just doesn’t seem right to abandon the whole whims system a couple years in, and then claim it’s happened because of a more recent pickup in representation.
It's like the squeaky wheel, if I have to keep oiling the squeaky wheel how do I find time to fix my three flats if I want to run my car? I really don't mean to bring any disrespect to anyone, or single out any type person, however, we can see from the replies in my thread no one actually wants to talk about why aren't the disabled or anyone else celebrated, too. For those reasons such as that example, if they keep working on 'representation' it's like a multi player game with single player mixed in..eventually we all get annoyed and would start saying =but the multi players are getting more than the single players...
I know this can't be reduced to such a unimportant analogy, but Maxis and EA are the people saying it's representation so I can only ask where is everyone else in this game? And why is it only about one community and not anyone else, and if so, then what about the rest of the people who still wait to see something and to be promoted and celebrated. Simself is not actually possible so yes, if they keep trying to represent everyone whims would possibly never get revisited...since the wheel needs more oil all the time and the focus all about half baked representation.
ETA: I don't know if anyone else can see the game has become all about that rather than the game. And because of that it's open to critiquing.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
> @Cinebar said: > ETA: I don't know if anyone else can see the game has become all about that rather than the game. And because of that it's open to critiquing.
I support your opinion 100 %. I find it rather weird that you had to explain it over and over again as it is so obvious.
I want shorter teens and for sims to be able to identify their gender and sexuality (sometimes I make a gay sim because I have a storyline in mind or I really want to play a gay storyline other times I don’t care if my sim is gay or not).
I don’t think I actually made any trans sims in my game but if I find trans or NB sims in my game I let them be... I have this one sim who’s gender I’m honestly not sure about but that’s fine with me I fixed their other (awful) outfits and got my sims to befriend them, they are a random townie but I like them a lot.
I want body hair and more clothes for dudes but I also want sexier spa towels for them and the ability to add bulges in their pants. But I just want the game to go deeper and be more fun.
I know this can't be reduced to such a unimportant analogy, but Maxis and EA are the people saying it's representation so I can only ask where is everyone else in this game? And why is it only about one community and not anyone else, and if so, then what about the rest of the people who still wait to see something and to be promoted and celebrated. Simself is not actually possible so yes, if they keep trying to represent everyone whims would possibly never get revisited...since the wheel needs more oil all the time and the focus all about half baked representation.
ETA: I don't know if anyone else can see the game has become all about that rather than the game. And because of that it's open to critiquing.
I think elders could use more representation. Including walking sticks, slower walking or maybe three wheel trollies.
I saw a film last night about the Australian aboriginal tribe. It would be fascinating how this could be done and explore another culture.
It must be done with respect and I think that’s what takes the time and why so many ideas are held or don’t get pass the idea stage.
For those complaining about poor representation, misrepresentation and stereotypical representation. I agree better representation needs to be done. More representation needs to be done. Improved representation needs to be done for those who are represented in the game but want much more.
However, don't take this the wrong way but it's time for others with NO representation to get their turn to have their voices heard to be represented in the game. Those on the autistic spectrum have ZERO representation. Those with ADHD have ZERO representation. The disabled have ZERO representation. Native Americans and Canada's First People have ZERO representation. Indigenous People worldwide have ZERO representation. Some cultures have ZERO represented at all. Some ethnicities have ZERO representation at all. Let's demand those with ZERO representation get heard and have representation in the game that claims "play with life". To me when one group, race, ethnicity, culture, etc isn't represented... you cannot "play with life"
For those of you who are poorly represented, misrepresented and stereotypically represented you need to let EA know that there is still work to be done. Explain how to better improve and what EA has done wrong. Explain what really needs to be done. If we all voice it and let the team know to improve they have a better understanding and can get the job done and done right. Consider me one of your allies for improved representation
Keep in mind we are probably never getting religion or politics added into the game and you'll need mods and CC for that. The reason for that is because it's too volatile and too easy to upset and offend people with politics and religion. The sims team doesn't need to apologize yet again because it's something some of the community wants and it offended the rest by doing it.
I'm sorry if I came across as rude but representation for all simmers or those wanting to play a specific race, culture or ethnicity and cannot because of ZERO representation or poor representation or misrepresentation or stereotypical representation is extremely important. True representation does not mean just your race, culture and or ethnicity, lifestyle etc. It's everybody gets a seat at the table no matter what. EVERBODY means every body to me. I hope it does to everyone else.
Stay amazing everyone. We can do anything when we work together.
Playtesting - not just tabletop games and card games any more. Really that should have been playtested in Beta and not [img]just with accounting and marketing but actual players. https://i.imgur.com/t48COW6.jpg[/img]
I'll start by saying that I never viewed the sims as a game about representation or diversity. I always viewed the sims as its own self contained world filled with its fake virtual people with their fake virtual culture, traditions, routines, etc.
BUT, I never view any addition for diversity as a bad thing, especially when it comes to diversity for groups that have been largely ignored for some time now. The LGBTQ+ community and other diverse ethnic groups have only really been legitimately acknowledged/represented in Sims 4 for the first time in the series, and even then there's room for improvement. For the first time, the sims, a life simulation game, is expanding its focus away from just north america, and that to me is a great thing and shouldn't stop.
Also to the OP, I don't exactly think it's helpful to say "groups are being under represented" but then say "I shouldn't have to say which groups are." If you feel some people aren't being properly represented you should be able to voice your concerns and have your feedback heard.
This is why I use CC. If I want it, I find it.
I'm not going to complain about what EA provides for free in-game. If I don't appreciate it, it clearly wasn't meant for me, but for others to enjoy.
LGBTQ+ and POC rights have been everywhere on the media, so that's probably why EA jumped on board to add a "bunch" of stuff into the game. Probably not because they wanted to just "focus on 2 groups" but because they didn't want to get their @sses handed to them for not being "inclusive" enough. Sure, there's more to being inclusive than just these two groups, but you're either straight or LGBTQ+ or either white or POC.
There's so many other cultures and ethnicities that it's not really realistic to include everyone in game.
I would like to see more content for disabilities, though. Wheelchairs, crutches, prosthetics, etc. I think it would be cool to implement sign language as well!
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If autism is to be portrayed in the game, PLEASE don’t make all the autism spectrum Sim nonverbal and flapping their hands, making noises. Everyone on the autism spectrum is different, from severe to mild. There are a lot of mild verbal autistic people too, just so you know. And people with autism have different likes and dislikes when it comes to interests and have different strengths and weaknesses. As someone who has mild autism who is verbal, I know from experience. No two people with autism are the same personality wise and interest wise. And no two people with autism are the same, strength and weakness wise. What I am trying to say is if autism is to be portrayed in the game, it needs to be portrayed correctly.
I agree with OP mostly. I love all new additions patched to the game, but as mentioned before in the thread I think we're really lacking in representation of males and other age groups beside YA/adult. I don't need pronouns, I feel I need more clothes, body hair, accessories for males and in general more spesific stuff for sims of different ages. Elders can't do much else but retire as it is
If autism is to be portrayed in the game, PLEASE don’t make all the autism spectrum Sim nonverbal and flapping their hands, making noises. Everyone on the autism spectrum is different, from severe to mild. There are a lot of mild verbal autistic people too, just so you know. And people with autism have different likes and dislikes when it comes to interests and have different strengths and weaknesses. As someone who has mild autism who is verbal, I know from experience. No two people with autism are the same personality wise and interest wise. And no two people with autism are the same, strength and weakness wise. What I am trying to say is if autism is to be portrayed in the game, it needs to be portrayed correctly.
This is why including disabilities in The Sims 4 would be incredibly difficult. Even people who have wheelchairs don’t all need them for the same reason. Some might be paraplegic, some might be tetraplegic, some might be able to walk a bit but use a wheelchair for long distances. Similarly, not everyone who has deaf has the same level of hearing loss. Similar with blindness.
If autism is to be portrayed in the game, PLEASE don’t make all the autism spectrum Sim nonverbal and flapping their hands, making noises. Everyone on the autism spectrum is different, from severe to mild. There are a lot of mild verbal autistic people too, just so you know. And people with autism have different likes and dislikes when it comes to interests and have different strengths and weaknesses. As someone who has mild autism who is verbal, I know from experience. No two people with autism are the same personality wise and interest wise. And no two people with autism are the same, strength and weakness wise. What I am trying to say is if autism is to be portrayed in the game, it needs to be portrayed correctly.
I would love autism to be included. Perhaps the vampire template could be used as that has different strength and weakness choices.
I mean no offence when I suggest whether it could work better in CAS or as an in game selection.
LGBT market is hundreds billion of dollar in the world.
The "others" do not spend a lot of money to support their "community" in particular because raising children is very expensive.
But EA doesn't care about "Representation" if you look at the quality of the content, just this word is a clickbait.
I'll start by saying that I never viewed the sims as a game about representation or diversity. I always viewed the sims as its own self contained world filled with its fake virtual people with their fake virtual culture, traditions, routines, etc.
BUT, I never view any addition for diversity as a bad thing, especially when it comes to diversity for groups that have been largely ignored for some time now. The LGBTQ+ community and other diverse ethnic groups have only really been legitimately acknowledged/represented in Sims 4 for the first time in the series, and even then there's room for improvement. For the first time, the sims, a life simulation game, is expanding its focus away from just north america, and that to me is a great thing and shouldn't stop.
Also to the OP, I don't exactly think it's helpful to say "groups are being under represented" but then say "I shouldn't have to say which groups are." If you feel some people aren't being properly represented you should be able to voice your concerns and have your feedback heard.
It's really not about which groups should or shouldn't be represented it's why has this become the focus of The Sims when as others have pointed out how many people are missing in this so called representation and will never be added and is it really so well done for all people all over the world or in your own little community in your own town/city that it should actually be the motto of TS4? Or should it just be like any other type of gameplay and let it go and get back to the heart of a game, it's gameplay. ETA: No, I will have to disagree the LGBTQ community were represented soon after TS4 was announced when Maxis held a big deal to announce how they were supporting the community in real life. It was a big article etc. etc. They became political with all that, and made a big announcement years before any gender patch.
In the last update (this month) the non binary community got a few wishes filled when a text pops up about what the Sim is doing such as painting the Sim is called them/their/they etc. This was worked on for some time if it can suddenly appear in a pack they have just released about likes and dislikes. But where are the things for others to play Simself? Everyone wants to say how hard disabled or religious would be to do..well, yes, if all the focus is only on the LGBTQ Simself I would think so.
I think some may not realize the gender neutral language is not just about nonbinary people being represented but a huge political movement to remove all language such as he/she etc. to reduce any such type differences in gender at all. Biological or otherwise. Some don't keep up with what's happening on a bigger scale. That is a huge push to remove any and all gender references forever. To say there are no differences and never have been...
while the rest of the world sits and wonders (even someone next door to you) where do I fit in since I'm actually a gender whether I'm gay or straight and or lesbian and or disabled and or religious or anything else. And the answer is (in my opinion) Nowhere in The Sims/Maxis universe.
And because the rest of us are nowhere in The Sims it should not be about representation at all but about a Sim in a universe where none of this ever mattered and why so many love the older games since we don't sit around discussing any of it.
And as LeGarde said, it's all poorly done anyway.
I mean did gay guys suddenly become bi and not want to be called a he? But the game is doing exactly that.
Are straight Sims Bi in real life? no. Does your mother want to be called they?
Does a woman want to give up her individuality and want to be called they? And no longer set apart as a gender? I don't think so, so the poorly done representation and or the poorly written codes to make all Sims bi and many stripped of their individual gender identity is not even a good way to represent anyone. Let alone say how hard it is to do representation for the rest of the people who can look and see nothing in the game for them at all. Because it has never been me that said representation matters..it was Maxis, well, ok, where is it?
Post edited by Cinebar on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
If autism is to be portrayed in the game, PLEASE don’t make all the autism spectrum Sim nonverbal and flapping their hands, making noises. Everyone on the autism spectrum is different, from severe to mild. There are a lot of mild verbal autistic people too, just so you know. And people with autism have different likes and dislikes when it comes to interests and have different strengths and weaknesses. As someone who has mild autism who is verbal, I know from experience. No two people with autism are the same personality wise and interest wise. And no two people with autism are the same, strength and weakness wise. What I am trying to say is if autism is to be portrayed in the game, it needs to be portrayed correctly.
I would love autism to be included. Perhaps the vampire template could be used as that has different strength and weakness choices.
I mean no offence when I suggest whether it could work better in CAS or as an in game selection.
Vampire template? How do you see this work if I may ask?
Will a sim have the ability to “rank up” on the autism spectrum?
I feel that Parenthood’s character value system would be more suitable for something like this: a child’s position on the character value spectrum depends entirely on that child’s behavior. However...
I mean no offense either but in my opinion RL “disorders” have no place in this silly game. C’mon folks it’s always been a silly game and it should officially stay that way. I say “officially” because asking Maxis to use resources on this kind of stuff just takes away from what the Sims is: it’s comedy. Sure, it’s “Play With Life” but in a sort of comical way, right? Using a comical game to represent very serious matters in life will just lead to potentially offensive in-game scenarios and half the community being upset. That’s why EA will never add this. Don’t even dream about it.
The name of the “insane” trait was changed to “erratic” because apparently the original word was too hurtful concerning people with mental health issues. And let’s not even talk about bugs & glitches. The poor baby icon not reflecting the actual skintone of the live mode baby already caused an uproar. The drama. The drama. I’m glad it’s fixed. 🤦🏻♂️
If representation of RL illnesses and disorders is something folks really really feel they need it’s best to buy a pc and learn how to mod or request a modder to create this. That’s what the modding community is for: to add pure realism and whatever else outrageous stuff we want that has no place in this game. Believe me, I have it all over my own game and unless it’s a bodyhair menu I will never dare ask Maxis to officially add most of the realistic stuff that I have in my crazy Sims 4. I’d rather them work on a werewolf pack or cars and motorbikes (I know, vehicles are kinda realistic 😇) but that’s just me.
I believe by getting more traits that we can combine within a balanced emotion system, we should be able to create very unique Sims with qualities that may or may not seem like they have mental disabilities and/ or mental health issues etc. but only if that’s what the player imagines it to be. If we get the tools, we should be creative and imaginative enough to play whatever and however we want e.g. my paranoid sim = social anxiety sim.
Representation doesn’t always need to be literally written all over the game. Inclusivity = Tools! Tools! Tools! I can’t say this often enough.
Right now adding any significant trait is pretty useless unless the entire traits and emotion system is re-worked. I’m glad to see the team re-develop personality aspects by adding sentiments and likes and dislikes, but keeping that ridiculous happy happy emotion at bay, implementing an attraction system and having more meaningful relationships between Sims (especially those who dislike each other) takes in my opinion priority: This game needs to work at the very core first and foremost and it’s all in the Ai. These so called smart Sims need to be just a teeny bit smarter than they currently are...
If autism is to be portrayed in the game, PLEASE don’t make all the autism spectrum Sim nonverbal and flapping their hands, making noises. Everyone on the autism spectrum is different, from severe to mild. There are a lot of mild verbal autistic people too, just so you know. And people with autism have different likes and dislikes when it comes to interests and have different strengths and weaknesses. As someone who has mild autism who is verbal, I know from experience. No two people with autism are the same personality wise and interest wise. And no two people with autism are the same, strength and weakness wise. What I am trying to say is if autism is to be portrayed in the game, it needs to be portrayed correctly.
I would love autism to be included. Perhaps the vampire template could be used as that has different strength and weakness choices.
I mean no offence when I suggest whether it could work better in CAS or as an in game selection.
Vampire template? How do you see this work if I may ask?
Will a sim have the ability to “rank up” on the autism spectrum?
I feel that Parenthood’s character value system would be more suitable for something like this: a child’s position on the character value spectrum depends entirely on that child’s behavior. However...
I mean no offense either but in my opinion RL “disorders” have no place in this silly game. C’mon folks it’s always been a silly game and it should officially stay that way. I say “officially” because asking Maxis to use resources on this kind of stuff just takes away from what the Sims is: it’s comedy. Sure, it’s “Play With Life” but in a sort of comical way, right? Using a comical game to represent very serious matters in life will just lead to potentially offensive in-game scenarios and half the community being upset. That’s why EA will never add this. Don’t even dream about it.
The name of the “insane” trait was changed to “erratic” because apparently the original word was too hurtful concerning people with mental health issues. And let’s not even talk about bugs & glitches. The poor baby icon not reflecting the actual skintone of the live mode baby already caused an uproar. The drama. The drama. I’m glad it’s fixed. 🤦🏻♂️
If representation of RL illnesses and disorders is something folks really really feel they need it’s best to buy a pc and learn how to mod or request a modder to create this. That’s what the modding community is for: to add pure realism and whatever else outrageous stuff we want that has no place in this game. Believe me, I have it all over my own game and unless it’s a bodyhair menu I will never dare ask Maxis to officially add most of the realistic stuff that I have in my crazy Sims 4. I’d rather them work on a werewolf pack or cars and motorbikes (I know, vehicles are kinda realistic 😇) but that’s just me.
I believe by getting more traits that we can combine within a balanced emotion system, we should be able to create very unique Sims with qualities that may or may not seem like they have mental disabilities and/ or mental health issues etc. but only if that’s what the player imagines it to be. If we get the tools, we should be creative and imaginative enough to play whatever and however we want e.g. my paranoid sim = social anxiety sim.
Representation doesn’t always need to be literally written all over the game. Inclusivity = Tools! Tools! Tools! I can’t say this enough times.
Right now adding any significant trait is pretty useless unless the entire traits and emotion system is re-worked. I’m glad to see the team re-develop personality aspects by adding sentiments and likes and dislikes, but keeping that ridiculous happy happy emotion at bay, implementing an attraction system and having more meaningful relationships between Sims (especially those who dislike each other) takes in my opinion priority: This game needs to work at the very core first and foremost and it’s all in the Ai. These so called smart Sims need to be just a teeny bit smarter than they currently are...
I completely agree that the Sims is meant to be as an ESCAPE from reality, such as work/school, having a job, and other stressful situations. And I agree that disorders and disabilities would be difficult to add in the game, and if done incorrectly, would offend people with or without disabilities. I agree with having a werewolf pack, too.
As you said, Captain NXR7, the game is meant to be light hearted and fun.
If autism is to be portrayed in the game, PLEASE don’t make all the autism spectrum Sim nonverbal and flapping their hands, making noises. Everyone on the autism spectrum is different, from severe to mild. There are a lot of mild verbal autistic people too, just so you know. And people with autism have different likes and dislikes when it comes to interests and have different strengths and weaknesses. As someone who has mild autism who is verbal, I know from experience. No two people with autism are the same personality wise and interest wise. And no two people with autism are the same, strength and weakness wise. What I am trying to say is if autism is to be portrayed in the game, it needs to be portrayed correctly.
I would love autism to be included. Perhaps the vampire template could be used as that has different strength and weakness choices.
I mean no offence when I suggest whether it could work better in CAS or as an in game selection.
Vampire template? How do you see this work if I may ask?
Will a sim have the ability to “rank up” on the autism spectrum?
I feel that Parenthood’s character value system would be more suitable for something like this: a child’s position on the character value spectrum depends entirely on that child’s behavior. However...
I mean no offense either but in my opinion RL “disorders” have no place in this silly game. C’mon folks it’s always been a silly game and it should officially stay that way. I say “officially” because asking Maxis to use resources on this kind of stuff just takes away from what the Sims is: it’s comedy. Sure, it’s “Play With Life” but in a sort of comical way, right? Using a comical game to represent very serious matters in life will just lead to potentially offensive in-game scenarios and half the community being upset. That’s why EA will never add this. Don’t even dream about it.
The name of the “insane” trait was changed to “erratic” because apparently the original word was too hurtful concerning people with mental health issues. And let’s not even talk about bugs & glitches. The poor baby icon not reflecting the actual skintone of the live mode baby already caused an uproar. The drama. The drama. I’m glad it’s fixed. 🤦🏻♂️
If representation of RL illnesses and disorders is something folks really really feel they need it’s best to buy a pc and learn how to mod or request a modder to create this. That’s what the modding community is for: to add pure realism and whatever else outrageous stuff we want that has no place in this game. Believe me, I have it all over my own game and unless it’s a bodyhair menu I will never dare ask Maxis to officially add most of the realistic stuff that I have in my crazy Sims 4. I’d rather them work on a werewolf pack or cars and motorbikes (I know, vehicles are kinda realistic 😇) but that’s just me.
I believe by getting more traits that we can combine within a balanced emotion system, we should be able to create very unique Sims with qualities that may or may not seem like they have mental disabilities and/ or mental health issues etc. but only if that’s what the player imagines it to be. If we get the tools, we should be creative and imaginative enough to play whatever and however we want e.g. my paranoid sim = social anxiety sim.
Representation doesn’t always need to be literally written all over the game. Inclusivity = Tools! Tools! Tools! I can’t say this often enough.
Right now adding any significant trait is pretty useless unless the entire traits and emotion system is re-worked. I’m glad to see the team re-develop personality aspects by adding sentiments and likes and dislikes, but keeping that ridiculous happy happy emotion at bay, implementing an attraction system and having more meaningful relationships between Sims (especially those who dislike each other) takes in my opinion priority: This game needs to work at the very core first and foremost and it’s all in the Ai. These so called smart Sims need to be just a teeny bit smarter than they currently are...
It's much easier to pander.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
How is non flirty supposed to be about LGBTQ? Can't people be flirty with the person of their choice rather than have to be non flirty in order not to stray from being gay or lesbian? But if that is true and was meant to satisfy a request from the LGBTQ community, then that also reaffirms all the promotional efforts Maxis has been doing over these past seven years and not a word about the disabled and or anyone else of any type of religion practice and or belief other than the scarf for fluff.
Aromanticism/As*xuality.
Sure some can just not want a romantic/s**ual partnership but i find the trait to suit Aro/Ace people
As an actual aromantic/asexual person, I don't really like to spend an entire trait slot on unflirty. That's 33% of a sim's three trait slots, it's kind of a lot? Besides, most of us still like hugs. Sims with the unflirty trait don't even like to do that.
Honestly, the lifestyle "single and loving it" feels much more accurate to my experience... at least if I use cheats to add it to a sim.
Question for those who hang these Pride flags in their sim’s home: do Sims get a special “Pride” buff from them? Or does it work like any other decor? I’m curious.
Nope, no buffs! They're simply decor. Great for storytelling purposes, though!
The Gender Preference is banned but there are Rainbow flags.
The Religion is banned but there are Jewish, Christian and Muslim content.
Why don't they add USA flags in the game ? Can't the sims be proud to be Americans ?
- Gender preference isn't banned. Yes, there is no way in-game to make your sims have a specific gender preference, but you can still decide who they are, and show who they are through the use of flag decor. Storytelling! (Besides, I don't remember seeing them ever saying they would never add specific gender preferences?)
- While they didn't want to add in religions SPECIFICALLY, it still influences cultures and aesthetics. That's what's in the game. They only made a point to not make a specific way to actively practice the religions, although clubs and holidays can be a way to sneak this into the game anyway.
- If they added USA flags, they should add every country flag. There are more than a hundred countries. So... let's not. Just use CC for that.
Gender preference is banned because the game change our stories.
For example the NPC townies start a straight romance with your sims no matter what you do but it never starts a gay/lesbian romance.
Rainbow flags and religious stuff are also available as CC, just we should use them !
Gender preference is banned because the game change our stories.
For example the NPC townies start a straight romance with your sims no matter what you do but it never starts a gay/lesbian romance.
Rainbow flags and religious stuff are also available as CC, just we should use them !
Fair points.
Honestly I never expected them to add lgbtq+ flags into the actual basegame either, but I appreciate the inclusion.
Comments
I agree with Snowbunny. The LGBT community is important to have in the game because LGBT people are a minority that needs to be accepted for who they are. Whether they are straight, gay, bisexual, lesbian and transgender.
I have created transgender sims a lot, lesbian sims and gay sims. Adding the LGBT people in the The Sims 4 game is great, having LGBT Sims adds diversity in the game.
I took their comments to mean "Pronouns and whims are both never coming because they don't make us money"
My interpretation is more “we’re figuring out what it would involve to work towards updating pronouns” and “we aren’t touching whims anytime soon, if ever” so definitely more favorable towards the pronouns. I have no problem with them doing that, as long as the entire system doesn’t go neutral. It just doesn’t seem right to abandon the whole whims system a couple years in, and then claim it’s happened because of a more recent pickup in representation.
It's like the squeaky wheel, if I have to keep oiling the squeaky wheel how do I find time to fix my three flats if I want to run my car? I really don't mean to bring any disrespect to anyone, or single out any type person, however, we can see from the replies in my thread no one actually wants to talk about why aren't the disabled or anyone else celebrated, too. For those reasons such as that example, if they keep working on 'representation' it's like a multi player game with single player mixed in..eventually we all get annoyed and would start saying =but the multi players are getting more than the single players...
I know this can't be reduced to such a unimportant analogy, but Maxis and EA are the people saying it's representation so I can only ask where is everyone else in this game? And why is it only about one community and not anyone else, and if so, then what about the rest of the people who still wait to see something and to be promoted and celebrated. Simself is not actually possible so yes, if they keep trying to represent everyone whims would possibly never get revisited...since the wheel needs more oil all the time and the focus all about half baked representation.
ETA: I don't know if anyone else can see the game has become all about that rather than the game. And because of that it's open to critiquing.
> ETA: I don't know if anyone else can see the game has become all about that rather than the game. And because of that it's open to critiquing.
I support your opinion 100 %. I find it rather weird that you had to explain it over and over again as it is so obvious.
I don’t think I actually made any trans sims in my game but if I find trans or NB sims in my game I let them be... I have this one sim who’s gender I’m honestly not sure about but that’s fine with me I fixed their other (awful) outfits and got my sims to befriend them, they are a random townie but I like them a lot.
I want body hair and more clothes for dudes but I also want sexier spa towels for them and the ability to add bulges in their pants. But I just want the game to go deeper and be more fun.
I saw a film last night about the Australian aboriginal tribe. It would be fascinating how this could be done and explore another culture.
It must be done with respect and I think that’s what takes the time and why so many ideas are held or don’t get pass the idea stage.
However, don't take this the wrong way but it's time for others with NO representation to get their turn to have their voices heard to be represented in the game. Those on the autistic spectrum have ZERO representation. Those with ADHD have ZERO representation. The disabled have ZERO representation. Native Americans and Canada's First People have ZERO representation. Indigenous People worldwide have ZERO representation. Some cultures have ZERO represented at all. Some ethnicities have ZERO representation at all. Let's demand those with ZERO representation get heard and have representation in the game that claims "play with life". To me when one group, race, ethnicity, culture, etc isn't represented... you cannot "play with life"
For those of you who are poorly represented, misrepresented and stereotypically represented you need to let EA know that there is still work to be done. Explain how to better improve and what EA has done wrong. Explain what really needs to be done. If we all voice it and let the team know to improve they have a better understanding and can get the job done and done right. Consider me one of your allies for improved representation
Keep in mind we are probably never getting religion or politics added into the game and you'll need mods and CC for that. The reason for that is because it's too volatile and too easy to upset and offend people with politics and religion. The sims team doesn't need to apologize yet again because it's something some of the community wants and it offended the rest by doing it.
I'm sorry if I came across as rude but representation for all simmers or those wanting to play a specific race, culture or ethnicity and cannot because of ZERO representation or poor representation or misrepresentation or stereotypical representation is extremely important. True representation does not mean just your race, culture and or ethnicity, lifestyle etc. It's everybody gets a seat at the table no matter what. EVERBODY means every body to me. I hope it does to everyone else.
Stay amazing everyone. We can do anything when we work together.
BUT, I never view any addition for diversity as a bad thing, especially when it comes to diversity for groups that have been largely ignored for some time now. The LGBTQ+ community and other diverse ethnic groups have only really been legitimately acknowledged/represented in Sims 4 for the first time in the series, and even then there's room for improvement. For the first time, the sims, a life simulation game, is expanding its focus away from just north america, and that to me is a great thing and shouldn't stop.
Also to the OP, I don't exactly think it's helpful to say "groups are being under represented" but then say "I shouldn't have to say which groups are." If you feel some people aren't being properly represented you should be able to voice your concerns and have your feedback heard.
I'm not going to complain about what EA provides for free in-game. If I don't appreciate it, it clearly wasn't meant for me, but for others to enjoy.
LGBTQ+ and POC rights have been everywhere on the media, so that's probably why EA jumped on board to add a "bunch" of stuff into the game. Probably not because they wanted to just "focus on 2 groups" but because they didn't want to get their @sses handed to them for not being "inclusive" enough. Sure, there's more to being inclusive than just these two groups, but you're either straight or LGBTQ+ or either white or POC.
There's so many other cultures and ethnicities that it's not really realistic to include everyone in game.
I would like to see more content for disabilities, though. Wheelchairs, crutches, prosthetics, etc. I think it would be cool to implement sign language as well!
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This is why including disabilities in The Sims 4 would be incredibly difficult. Even people who have wheelchairs don’t all need them for the same reason. Some might be paraplegic, some might be tetraplegic, some might be able to walk a bit but use a wheelchair for long distances. Similarly, not everyone who has deaf has the same level of hearing loss. Similar with blindness.
I would love autism to be included. Perhaps the vampire template could be used as that has different strength and weakness choices.
I mean no offence when I suggest whether it could work better in CAS or as an in game selection.
LGBT market is hundreds billion of dollar in the world.
The "others" do not spend a lot of money to support their "community" in particular because raising children is very expensive.
But EA doesn't care about "Representation" if you look at the quality of the content, just this word is a clickbait.
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The Sims 4 General DiscussionIt's really not about which groups should or shouldn't be represented it's why has this become the focus of The Sims when as others have pointed out how many people are missing in this so called representation and will never be added and is it really so well done for all people all over the world or in your own little community in your own town/city that it should actually be the motto of TS4? Or should it just be like any other type of gameplay and let it go and get back to the heart of a game, it's gameplay. ETA: No, I will have to disagree the LGBTQ community were represented soon after TS4 was announced when Maxis held a big deal to announce how they were supporting the community in real life. It was a big article etc. etc. They became political with all that, and made a big announcement years before any gender patch.
In the last update (this month) the non binary community got a few wishes filled when a text pops up about what the Sim is doing such as painting the Sim is called them/their/they etc. This was worked on for some time if it can suddenly appear in a pack they have just released about likes and dislikes. But where are the things for others to play Simself? Everyone wants to say how hard disabled or religious would be to do..well, yes, if all the focus is only on the LGBTQ Simself I would think so.
I think some may not realize the gender neutral language is not just about nonbinary people being represented but a huge political movement to remove all language such as he/she etc. to reduce any such type differences in gender at all. Biological or otherwise. Some don't keep up with what's happening on a bigger scale. That is a huge push to remove any and all gender references forever. To say there are no differences and never have been...
while the rest of the world sits and wonders (even someone next door to you) where do I fit in since I'm actually a gender whether I'm gay or straight and or lesbian and or disabled and or religious or anything else. And the answer is (in my opinion) Nowhere in The Sims/Maxis universe.
And because the rest of us are nowhere in The Sims it should not be about representation at all but about a Sim in a universe where none of this ever mattered and why so many love the older games since we don't sit around discussing any of it.
And as LeGarde said, it's all poorly done anyway.
I mean did gay guys suddenly become bi and not want to be called a he? But the game is doing exactly that.
Are straight Sims Bi in real life? no. Does your mother want to be called they?
Does a woman want to give up her individuality and want to be called they? And no longer set apart as a gender? I don't think so, so the poorly done representation and or the poorly written codes to make all Sims bi and many stripped of their individual gender identity is not even a good way to represent anyone. Let alone say how hard it is to do representation for the rest of the people who can look and see nothing in the game for them at all. Because it has never been me that said representation matters..it was Maxis, well, ok, where is it?
Vampire template? How do you see this work if I may ask?
Will a sim have the ability to “rank up” on the autism spectrum?
I feel that Parenthood’s character value system would be more suitable for something like this: a child’s position on the character value spectrum depends entirely on that child’s behavior. However...
I mean no offense either but in my opinion RL “disorders” have no place in this silly game. C’mon folks it’s always been a silly game and it should officially stay that way. I say “officially” because asking Maxis to use resources on this kind of stuff just takes away from what the Sims is: it’s comedy. Sure, it’s “Play With Life” but in a sort of comical way, right? Using a comical game to represent very serious matters in life will just lead to potentially offensive in-game scenarios and half the community being upset. That’s why EA will never add this. Don’t even dream about it.
The name of the “insane” trait was changed to “erratic” because apparently the original word was too hurtful concerning people with mental health issues. And let’s not even talk about bugs & glitches. The poor baby icon not reflecting the actual skintone of the live mode baby already caused an uproar. The drama. The drama. I’m glad it’s fixed. 🤦🏻♂️
If representation of RL illnesses and disorders is something folks really really feel they need it’s best to buy a pc and learn how to mod or request a modder to create this. That’s what the modding community is for: to add pure realism and whatever else outrageous stuff we want that has no place in this game. Believe me, I have it all over my own game and unless it’s a bodyhair menu I will never dare ask Maxis to officially add most of the realistic stuff that I have in my crazy Sims 4. I’d rather them work on a werewolf pack or cars and motorbikes (I know, vehicles are kinda realistic 😇) but that’s just me.
I believe by getting more traits that we can combine within a balanced emotion system, we should be able to create very unique Sims with qualities that may or may not seem like they have mental disabilities and/ or mental health issues etc. but only if that’s what the player imagines it to be. If we get the tools, we should be creative and imaginative enough to play whatever and however we want e.g. my paranoid sim = social anxiety sim.
Representation doesn’t always need to be literally written all over the game. Inclusivity = Tools! Tools! Tools! I can’t say this often enough.
Right now adding any significant trait is pretty useless unless the entire traits and emotion system is re-worked. I’m glad to see the team re-develop personality aspects by adding sentiments and likes and dislikes, but keeping that ridiculous happy happy emotion at bay, implementing an attraction system and having more meaningful relationships between Sims (especially those who dislike each other) takes in my opinion priority: This game needs to work at the very core first and foremost and it’s all in the Ai. These so called smart Sims need to be just a teeny bit smarter than they currently are...
I completely agree that the Sims is meant to be as an ESCAPE from reality, such as work/school, having a job, and other stressful situations. And I agree that disorders and disabilities would be difficult to add in the game, and if done incorrectly, would offend people with or without disabilities. I agree with having a werewolf pack, too.
As you said, Captain NXR7, the game is meant to be light hearted and fun.
It's much easier to pander.
The Gender Preference is banned but there are Rainbow flags.
The Religion is banned but there are Jewish, Christian and Muslim content.
Why don't they add USA flags in the game ? Can't the sims be proud to be Americans ?
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The Sims 4 General DiscussionThe Sims Studio put a Conversion Therapy in the basegame to "heal" our sims
The more they try, the more embarrassing and awkward it becomes.
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The Sims 4 General DiscussionHonestly, the lifestyle "single and loving it" feels much more accurate to my experience... at least if I use cheats to add it to a sim.
Nope, no buffs! They're simply decor. Great for storytelling purposes, though!
- Gender preference isn't banned. Yes, there is no way in-game to make your sims have a specific gender preference, but you can still decide who they are, and show who they are through the use of flag decor. Storytelling! (Besides, I don't remember seeing them ever saying they would never add specific gender preferences?)
- While they didn't want to add in religions SPECIFICALLY, it still influences cultures and aesthetics. That's what's in the game. They only made a point to not make a specific way to actively practice the religions, although clubs and holidays can be a way to sneak this into the game anyway.
- If they added USA flags, they should add every country flag. There are more than a hundred countries. So... let's not. Just use CC for that.
they/he
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Gender preference is banned because the game change our stories.
For example the NPC townies start a straight romance with your sims no matter what you do but it never starts a gay/lesbian romance.
Rainbow flags and religious stuff are also available as CC, just we should use them !
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The Sims 4 General DiscussionFair points.
Honestly I never expected them to add lgbtq+ flags into the actual basegame either, but I appreciate the inclusion.
they/he
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