When the possibility of gender neutral pronouns for the game first game up, I thought they were going to expand the existing pronouns.
When I'm writing up buff descriptions for my mods, I use the {M0.him}{F0.her} system and I truly assumed that NMaxis would add an {N0.they} to the system, alongside a Non-Binary gender option in CAS. That made the most sense to me and allows everyone to create the Sims they want to create.
Looking at the screenshot @Onverser shared, I'm assuming they won't be using that system anymore and instead just going to replace all in-game text with they?
Personally, I'd have been happy with the inclusion of {N0.they} because, from a modder's perspective, I would be able to include that in all my descriptions and then, hopefully, everyone would be happy because each individual sim would have the correct pronouns.
Surely changing everything to them/them isn't being as inclusive as it could be? I though including it as a legitimate option in CAS and then having the pronouns to fit it, would have made sense.
Thank you for sharing. I would’ve been happy with an option in CAS as well. I would want to set whose he/she/they. It’s a lot easier to make Sims from scratch so I can plan thier journeys.
Maybe I do control my Sims too much. 😂😂😂 but they’re all my little darlings.
When the possibility of gender neutral pronouns for the game first game up, I thought they were going to expand the existing pronouns.
When I'm writing up buff descriptions for my mods, I use the {M0.him}{F0.her} system and I truly assumed that NMaxis would add an {N0.they} to the system, alongside a Non-Binary gender option in CAS. That made the most sense to me and allows everyone to create the Sims they want to create.
Looking at the screenshot @Onverser shared, I'm assuming they won't be using that system anymore and instead just going to replace all in-game text with they?
Personally, I'd have been happy with the inclusion of {N0.they} because, from a modder's perspective, I would be able to include that in all my descriptions and then, hopefully, everyone would be happy because each individual sim would have the correct pronouns.
Surely changing everything to them/them isn't being as inclusive as it could be? I though including it as a legitimate option in CAS and then having the pronouns to fit it, would have made sense.
This is what I thought it was going to be as well, give players the option to select non-binary in CaS. For example, you get a randomly generated sim and up in the corner where you edit their clothing preferences, if they can get pregnant/get others pregnant etc and there'd be a "Non-Binary" or "Binary" option alongside so that when the game gets into live-mode that the game would then activate a "they/them" dialogue/text function in the buffs/opportunity boxes. While also leaving the binary options alone so that binary sims are still referred to as she/her, he/him in the text.
Edited by EA_Neil. The last part was a bit out of line and was removed.
Post edited by EA_Neil on
Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
I think it's something that needs to be discussed but "can't" be discussed without looking like your anti non binary and people attacking you for having a right to your opinion or your gender just as they have a right to theirs.
It's becoming that boys and girls don't matter anymore and eventually non binary will be the standard gender so it seems with how hard they are pushing it (everywhere not just sims)
And I'm annoyed with how many times I have to say I have NOTHING against non binary people. I'm accepting of all people and respect their choices.
I just don't want my identity buried. As many people are still he and she respectively. Probably the mass population.
I got attacked by a GC for adding my opinion on a discussion on this very topic.
I was trying to explain how this just doesn't work well in most South Asian languages and how complex it becomes because how we handle gender and how everything is gendered. We can't insert a neutral world and expect it to just make sense with the whole sentence.
Plus Neutral words like "they" are reserved for signs of respect like for a husband. I have discussed this with family as it seems to be a hot topic now days but I don't personally know any non binary so maybe they have come up with new words or something Idk. And spanish has less complex yet similar rules.
But the GC got super offended like I'm trying to say non binary shouldn't be added to the game and they also said I don't have the right to speak for anybody of that language.
I'm like dude, I AM south Asian and I'm also fluent in Spanish and English as I do interpreting three days a week.
Also with many friends from different Spanish speaking counties. And even if I wasn't there are many people who speak and understand the rules of multiple other languages well enough to speak on it. No reason they should be silenced.
I was Trying to explain why it's not a simple matter. But I just left everyone else to fight it out on twitter.
GC apologize but then deleted the apology lol
It's was obvious the sims are going to go the simple route here and most likely nerf gender as exampled in the above picture, yet I'm still more dissapointed than I thought I would be😖
This is what a I’ve come across. It’s really helped to see your story. Thanks for sharing. Sorry they deleted the apology that must’ve been annoying.
I’m hopeful that they’ll sort all the languages out.
This is what I thought it was going to be as well, give players the option to select non-binary in CaS. For example, you get a randomly generated sim and up in the corner where you edit their clothing preferences, if they can get pregnant/get others pregnant etc and there'd be a "Non-Binary" or "Binary" option alongside so that when the game gets into live-mode that the game would then activate a "they/them" dialogue/text function in the buffs/opportunity boxes. While also leaving the binary options alone so that binary sims are still referred to as she/her, he/him in text.
This is what I wanted. CAS is better as you have full control. Townies and premades have restrictions to what you can change.
Honestly, as a nonbinary person, all I'd want is just.. the ability to choose pronouns in the gender drop-down menu. That's it. That's all I want.
Preferably as checkboxes, as some of us who fall outside the binary do use multiple sets of pronouns and like to switch it up... Doing this would have the sim's chosen pronouns in notifications randomize between every instance. I'd like that. Probably wishful thinking, but hey. A pronoun-indifferent sim being referred to by he/him in one notification, and they/them in the next? And then she/her in another? Yes.
BUT I won't complain if they don't do the multi-pronoun thing. Just having neutral pronouns in the first place is a huge step that I'd appreciate! However, I know that certain languages without any form of gender neutrality would provide a challenge, and that's why multi-pronouns are a good option as well.
Also, another important thing to note here: Funky gender settings are already disabled for random sims.
I've never, NEVER, seen a randomly generated sim be trans or gender-nonconforming in any way. They've always been premades (of which there are VERY FEW), often ones who don't even live in a house. They're purposely making this easy to avoid. I literally had to use a mod to get random sims generating with non-cisnormative gender settings. It's not a vanilla game thing.
That's why I imagine the pronoun options would also be disabled for random.
So please, if you you don't really care for this stuff, you'll really have nothing to worry about. Just know that some of us will appreciate having the option.
When the possibility of gender neutral pronouns for the game first game up, I thought they were going to expand the existing pronouns.
When I'm writing up buff descriptions for my mods, I use the {M0.him}{F0.her} system and I truly assumed that NMaxis would add an {N0.they} to the system, alongside a Non-Binary gender option in CAS. That made the most sense to me and allows everyone to create the Sims they want to create.
Looking at the screenshot @Onverser shared, I'm assuming they won't be using that system anymore and instead just going to replace all in-game text with they?
Personally, I'd have been happy with the inclusion of {N0.they} because, from a modder's perspective, I would be able to include that in all my descriptions and then, hopefully, everyone would be happy because each individual sim would have the correct pronouns.
Surely changing everything to them/them isn't being as inclusive as it could be? I though including it as a legitimate option in CAS and then having the pronouns to fit it, would have made sense.
This is what I thought it was going to be as well, give players the option to select non-binary in CaS. For example, you get a randomly generated sim and up in the corner where you edit their clothing preferences, if they can get pregnant/get others pregnant etc and there'd be a "Non-Binary" or "Binary" option alongside so that when the game gets into live-mode that the game would then activate a "they/them" dialogue/text function in the buffs/opportunity boxes. While also leaving the binary options alone so that binary sims are still referred to as she/her, he/him in the text.
But no, it's just easier to erase binary to appease the 1% on Twitter who are demanding change because they can get away with it. Especially since anyone who dares to even raise a small amount of concern or counter-argument, in the most polite way possible are just labelled "ists and phobes" because it's the only argument they can reliably fall back on and win because they just scream the building down.
This what I was hoping for and whether or not the instance @Onverser is indeed a bug or intentional and the devs just got "caught in the act" so to speak, doesn't really make a difference. If anything, this being reported as a bug should prove that people don't forced gender-neutrality in the game. Or at least, I'm hoping that it should give them the idea that we want choices
And you bring up a good point about whenever somebody politely and calmly brings up a concern, they're automatically called names that implies they're predjudiced against a certain group, which I think says a lot about the mindset of the Twitter side of the Sims fandom.
Honestly, as a nonbinary person, all I'd want is just.. the ability to choose pronouns in the gender drop-down menu. That's it. That's all I want.
Preferably as checkboxes, as some of us who fall outside the binary do use multiple sets of pronouns and like to switch it up... Doing this would have the sim's chosen pronouns in notifications randomize between every instance. I'd like that. Probably wishful thinking, but hey. A pronoun-indifferent sim being referred to by he/him in one notification, and they/them in the next? And then she/her in another? Yes.
BUT I won't complain if they don't do the multi-pronoun thing. Just having neutral pronouns in the first place is a huge step that I'd appreciate! However, I know that certain languages without any form of gender neutrality would provide a challenge, and that's why multi-pronouns are a good option as well.
Also, another important thing to note here: Funky gender settings are already disabled for random sims.
I've never, NEVER, seen a randomly generated sim be trans or gender-nonconforming in any way. They've always been premades (of which there are VERY FEW), often ones who don't even live in a house. They're purposely making this easy to avoid. I literally had to use a mod to get random sims generating with non-cisnormative gender settings. It's not a vanilla game thing.
That's why I imagine the pronoun options would also be disabled for random.
So please, if you you don't really care for this stuff, you'll really have nothing to worry about. Just know that some of us will appreciate having the option.
Thank you so much for your input.
While I normally don't like to speak for the masses, I think I can this time when I say. All of us on this thread are 100% A-Okay with there being an added non-binary option to the drop-down box in CAS. And many of us are even in favor of it being added all together since I have seen some people state here, that they would like the option to create nonbinary sims. As long as we have that option and the pronouns our sims are referred to as in game connects to what we picked in the first place.
I actually wasn't aware that the more in depth gender settings weren't enabled for random Sims, but I think that is good to know for those who were concerned about it. I personally don't have a problem if I would get randomized nonbinary Sims in my games, because I don't delete townies based on "oh, another male was generated, I wanted a female" or things like that. It's more of a matter "can I fix them in CAS or are their genetics and clothing just too weird to even try?"
But as far as the first part of your comment goes: I think we're all on the same page. About having the non-binary options added to CAS.
Also, another important thing to note here: Funky gender settings are already disabled for random sims.
I've never, NEVER, seen a randomly generated sim be trans or gender-nonconforming in any way. They've always been premades (of which there are VERY FEW), often ones who don't even live in a house. They're purposely making this easy to avoid. I literally had to use a mod to get random sims generating with non-cisnormative gender settings. It's not a vanilla game thing.
That's why I imagine the pronoun options would also be disabled for random.
So please, if you you don't really care for this stuff, you'll really have nothing to worry about. Just know that some of us will appreciate having the option.
See, that's pretty good to hear, but even if the funky stuff was available at random and you occasionally encounter trans or nonbinary Sims, it's not like, going to ruin the game or anything. Sure, maybe some moodlets referring to my characters as "they" rather than "he" mildly irk me because that's not his appropriate gender pronoun and it's inconsistent (and I think it's more likely due to oversight than it is a deliberate writing choice), but it's really not that big of a deal to me.
Ya know I’m very offended by this post, not the OP for the most part, but most of the other posts. I feel like this is reverse discrimination. I am old fashioned, traditional family oriented. I feel this post is anti traditional.
My grandchildren are not allowed to play most games, and they are not allowed to play the Sims at all, because of this.
It is sad that those with traditional old fashioned values are looked down upon and called names. This needs to change and let it start with the Sims.
Mods if I over stepped your bounds feel free to delete my post. Everyone else is posting their opinions and I usually don’t anymore, but this was just creaming my corn.
I’m sure someone will report this post and many others in this 🧵
I do feel that I stated my views in a mild and non-insulting way.
Honestly, as a nonbinary person, all I'd want is just.. the ability to choose pronouns in the gender drop-down menu. That's it. That's all I want.
Preferably as checkboxes, as some of us who fall outside the binary do use multiple sets of pronouns and like to switch it up... Doing this would have the sim's chosen pronouns in notifications randomize between every instance. I'd like that. Probably wishful thinking, but hey. A pronoun-indifferent sim being referred to by he/him in one notification, and they/them in the next? And then she/her in another? Yes.
BUT I won't complain if they don't do the multi-pronoun thing. Just having neutral pronouns in the first place is a huge step that I'd appreciate! However, I know that certain languages without any form of gender neutrality would provide a challenge, and that's why multi-pronouns are a good option as well.
Also, another important thing to note here: Funky gender settings are already disabled for random sims.
I've never, NEVER, seen a randomly generated sim be trans or gender-nonconforming in any way. They've always been premades (of which there are VERY FEW), often ones who don't even live in a house. They're purposely making this easy to avoid. I literally had to use a mod to get random sims generating with non-cisnormative gender settings. It's not a vanilla game thing.
That's why I imagine the pronoun options would also be disabled for random.
So please, if you you don't really care for this stuff, you'll really have nothing to worry about. Just know that some of us will appreciate having the option.
Thank you so much for your input.
While I normally don't like to speak for the masses, I think I can this time when I say. All of us on this thread are 100% A-Okay with there being an added non-binary option to the drop-down box in CAS. And many of us are even in favor of it being added all together since I have seen some people state here, that they would like the option to create nonbinary sims. As long as we have that option and the pronouns our sims are referred to as in game connects to what we picked in the first place.
I actually wasn't aware that the more in depth gender settings weren't enabled for random Sims, but I think that is good to know for those who were concerned about it. I personally don't have a problem if I would get randomized nonbinary Sims in my games, because I don't delete townies based on "oh, another male was generated, I wanted a female" or things like that. It's more of a matter "can I fix them in CAS or are their genetics and clothing just too weird to even try?"
But as far as the first part of your comment goes: I think we're all on the same page. About having the non-binary options added to CAS.
I think having this added to CAS would be great.
I would be happy to populate non binary Sims and many others. Having the options there would help raise awareness.
I’m so pleased to see the game opening the doors to more groups. It’s everything being randomised disrupting my games that’s annoying.
I made a convent (nuns) and as I play rotation, when I went back two of the women had love interests. I would like a button to stop auto flirting. 🙄
I made a Sim to try living as a hermit. Next time on her rotation I find she’s made five friends and practically knows everyone. 🤦🏼♂️ I must’ve missed her turning up on lots when playing other houses.
When the possibility of gender neutral pronouns for the game first game up, I thought they were going to expand the existing pronouns.
When I'm writing up buff descriptions for my mods, I use the {M0.him}{F0.her} system and I truly assumed that NMaxis would add an {N0.they} to the system, alongside a Non-Binary gender option in CAS. That made the most sense to me and allows everyone to create the Sims they want to create.
Looking at the screenshot @Onverser shared, I'm assuming they won't be using that system anymore and instead just going to replace all in-game text with they?
Personally, I'd have been happy with the inclusion of {N0.they} because, from a modder's perspective, I would be able to include that in all my descriptions and then, hopefully, everyone would be happy because each individual sim would have the correct pronouns.
Surely changing everything to them/them isn't being as inclusive as it could be? I though including it as a legitimate option in CAS and then having the pronouns to fit it, would have made sense.
This is what I thought it was going to be as well, give players the option to select non-binary in CaS. For example, you get a randomly generated sim and up in the corner where you edit their clothing preferences, if they can get pregnant/get others pregnant etc and there'd be a "Non-Binary" or "Binary" option alongside so that when the game gets into live-mode that the game would then activate a "they/them" dialogue/text function in the buffs/opportunity boxes. While also leaving the binary options alone so that binary sims are still referred to as she/her, he/him in the text.
But no, it's just easier to erase binary to appease the 1% on Twitter who are demanding change because they can get away with it. Especially since anyone who dares to even raise a small amount of concern or counter-argument, in the most polite way possible are just labelled "ists and phobes" because it's the only argument they can reliably fall back on and win because they just scream the building down.
This what I was hoping for and whether or not the instance @Onverser is indeed a bug or intentional and the devs just got "caught in the act" so to speak, doesn't really make a difference. If anything, this being reported as a bug should prove that people don't forced gender-neutrality in the game. Or at least, I'm hoping that it should give them the idea that we want choices
And you bring up a good point about whenever somebody politely and calmly brings up a concern, they're automatically called names that implies they're predjudiced against a certain group, which I think says a lot about the mindset of the Twitter side of the Sims fandom.
The cynic in me is thinking that they got "caught in the act" and are trying to cover their butts, by claiming that it's a coding error. However, realistically it's more than likely just a coding error, because the Guru's while they do a fantastic job 50% of the time, can't code their way out of a paper bag the other 50%.
I'm hopeful that the bug report is enough to remind them that there's more to the Sims community than those who are only active on Twitter, they really need to pay attention to the forums here because there's a lot of valid feedback and suggestions here.
I'm all for choices, binary people, non-binary/gender-non-conforming people have the right to create sims in a manner they see fit. A blanket change is just meaningless pandering and as others have pointed out, really hard to translate into other languages as many words are gendered.
Anyway, I've been learning the hard way recently that some people on the internet once they run out of "muh race, representation, oppression etc" arguments they just fall back onto namecalling. It certainly says a lot about them and shows how mature they are, some people truly never leave high school, mentally anyway.
Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
If the OPTION to change the game from its original form is not given to those of us who prefer the game the way it has always been, I will definitely abandon my entire SIMS collection. The gaming world is all about imagination...use it. Are you asking to change the pronouns in ALL EA games or MAXIS games? or ALL video games? When is enough enough? If the option is there, fine - choose it, play your way. But the minute Mother, Father, Policeman/Policewoman, etc. are completely replaced WITHOUT the option to keep it the way it was...I'M OUT. Which would be extremely disappointing considering I've purchased every SIMS game and expansion pack for the last 25 years until SIMS 4 and the packs were trashed...
Comments
Thank you for sharing. I would’ve been happy with an option in CAS as well. I would want to set whose he/she/they. It’s a lot easier to make Sims from scratch so I can plan thier journeys.
Maybe I do control my Sims too much. 😂😂😂 but they’re all my little darlings.
This is what I thought it was going to be as well, give players the option to select non-binary in CaS. For example, you get a randomly generated sim and up in the corner where you edit their clothing preferences, if they can get pregnant/get others pregnant etc and there'd be a "Non-Binary" or "Binary" option alongside so that when the game gets into live-mode that the game would then activate a "they/them" dialogue/text function in the buffs/opportunity boxes. While also leaving the binary options alone so that binary sims are still referred to as she/her, he/him in the text.
Edited by EA_Neil. The last part was a bit out of line and was removed.
This is what a I’ve come across. It’s really helped to see your story. Thanks for sharing. Sorry they deleted the apology that must’ve been annoying.
I’m hopeful that they’ll sort all the languages out.
This is what I wanted. CAS is better as you have full control. Townies and premades have restrictions to what you can change.
https://answers.ea.com/t5/Bug-Reports/Sims-being-given-wrong-pronouns-in-new-pop-ups/m-p/10379101#M183576
Thank you for making this post as a bug report and for sharing the screenshot you came across here as proof.
It looks like, you already got a response from a guru.
Just when I was getting ready to show my support too. Fingers crossed, it will change soon.
Preferably as checkboxes, as some of us who fall outside the binary do use multiple sets of pronouns and like to switch it up... Doing this would have the sim's chosen pronouns in notifications randomize between every instance. I'd like that. Probably wishful thinking, but hey. A pronoun-indifferent sim being referred to by he/him in one notification, and they/them in the next? And then she/her in another? Yes.
BUT I won't complain if they don't do the multi-pronoun thing. Just having neutral pronouns in the first place is a huge step that I'd appreciate! However, I know that certain languages without any form of gender neutrality would provide a challenge, and that's why multi-pronouns are a good option as well.
Also, another important thing to note here:
Funky gender settings are already disabled for random sims.
I've never, NEVER, seen a randomly generated sim be trans or gender-nonconforming in any way. They've always been premades (of which there are VERY FEW), often ones who don't even live in a house. They're purposely making this easy to avoid. I literally had to use a mod to get random sims generating with non-cisnormative gender settings. It's not a vanilla game thing.
That's why I imagine the pronoun options would also be disabled for random.
So please, if you you don't really care for this stuff, you'll really have nothing to worry about. Just know that some of us will appreciate having the option.
they/he
simblr
This what I was hoping for and whether or not the instance @Onverser is indeed a bug or intentional and the devs just got "caught in the act" so to speak, doesn't really make a difference. If anything, this being reported as a bug should prove that people don't forced gender-neutrality in the game. Or at least, I'm hoping that it should give them the idea that we want choices
And you bring up a good point about whenever somebody politely and calmly brings up a concern, they're automatically called names that implies they're predjudiced against a certain group, which I think says a lot about the mindset of the Twitter side of the Sims fandom.
Thank you so much for your input.
While I normally don't like to speak for the masses, I think I can this time when I say. All of us on this thread are 100% A-Okay with there being an added non-binary option to the drop-down box in CAS. And many of us are even in favor of it being added all together since I have seen some people state here, that they would like the option to create nonbinary sims. As long as we have that option and the pronouns our sims are referred to as in game connects to what we picked in the first place.
I actually wasn't aware that the more in depth gender settings weren't enabled for random Sims, but I think that is good to know for those who were concerned about it. I personally don't have a problem if I would get randomized nonbinary Sims in my games, because I don't delete townies based on "oh, another male was generated, I wanted a female" or things like that. It's more of a matter "can I fix them in CAS or are their genetics and clothing just too weird to even try?"
But as far as the first part of your comment goes: I think we're all on the same page. About having the non-binary options added to CAS.
See, that's pretty good to hear, but even if the funky stuff was available at random and you occasionally encounter trans or nonbinary Sims, it's not like, going to ruin the game or anything. Sure, maybe some moodlets referring to my characters as "they" rather than "he" mildly irk me because that's not his appropriate gender pronoun and it's inconsistent (and I think it's more likely due to oversight than it is a deliberate writing choice), but it's really not that big of a deal to me.
My grandchildren are not allowed to play most games, and they are not allowed to play the Sims at all, because of this.
It is sad that those with traditional old fashioned values are looked down upon and called names. This needs to change and let it start with the Sims.
Mods if I over stepped your bounds feel free to delete my post. Everyone else is posting their opinions and I usually don’t anymore, but this was just creaming my corn.
I’m sure someone will report this post and many others in this 🧵
I do feel that I stated my views in a mild and non-insulting way.
TINY HOUSE CHALLENGE
The May Family
Modeling Career?
I think having this added to CAS would be great.
I would be happy to populate non binary Sims and many others. Having the options there would help raise awareness.
I’m so pleased to see the game opening the doors to more groups. It’s everything being randomised disrupting my games that’s annoying.
I made a convent (nuns) and as I play rotation, when I went back two of the women had love interests. I would like a button to stop auto flirting. 🙄
I made a Sim to try living as a hermit. Next time on her rotation I find she’s made five friends and practically knows everyone. 🤦🏼♂️ I must’ve missed her turning up on lots when playing other houses.
The cynic in me is thinking that they got "caught in the act" and are trying to cover their butts, by claiming that it's a coding error. However, realistically it's more than likely just a coding error, because the Guru's while they do a fantastic job 50% of the time, can't code their way out of a paper bag the other 50%.
I'm hopeful that the bug report is enough to remind them that there's more to the Sims community than those who are only active on Twitter, they really need to pay attention to the forums here because there's a lot of valid feedback and suggestions here.
I'm all for choices, binary people, non-binary/gender-non-conforming people have the right to create sims in a manner they see fit. A blanket change is just meaningless pandering and as others have pointed out, really hard to translate into other languages as many words are gendered.
Anyway, I've been learning the hard way recently that some people on the internet once they run out of "muh race, representation, oppression etc" arguments they just fall back onto namecalling. It certainly says a lot about them and shows how mature they are, some people truly never leave high school, mentally anyway.
Looks like it was just an error thankfully
Thank you. I selected me too. 🙏
Also did some research to talk about only to realise I may not be able to post it here. 🤦🏼♂️. Why is my brain so slow sometimes? 🙄