August 5th- It's time for our Friday Highlights! You can check them out here!

Gender Neutral Options.

Comments

  • NoTalentNoTalent Posts: 384 Member
    Sindocat wrote: »
    NoTalent wrote: »
    You’re reaching and you know you are. I hate these topics because you cannot argue against them without appearing like the bad guy.

    No - I am describing how these requests come across. If you can't make a case against something without sounding like a bigot, think very, very hard about why.

    Nothing announced said that Singular They is being imposed on any Sims. They are talking about the difficulty of expanding the options. They aren't even saying they are adding it - all they say is "this is something we care about doing right, but localization across the many languages we release in makes it very, very difficult."

    That's actually saying "we don't expect to be able to add this soon, but we want you to know we are aware of the desire for it."

    But this thread, and the people in it, are clutching pearls [i}ALREADY[/i] begging to turn it off, exclude it, etc. It's not even happening and there is this horrible, reactionary backlash because Gender. And it's ugly. And I see who is arguing for it.

    It was ugly when you asked NOT to have free Pride themed gear in sponsorship with the It Gets Better Project. It was ugly when you objected to head coverings and modest dress. It's ugly now. It's not a stretch. It's how some people are. And yes, it's your game, but it's our world and I have to live in it. You're making that harder.

    I have been on Twitter enough to know that anyone who does not support or agree entirely with the cult-like nonsense of staying woke is ostracised and made into a villain of the vilest sorts. I cannot sit here and say that I do not want an option because people go off the rails, refuse to read, and then get heated over something that they are misinterpreting. I never said bigot, I said bad guy. No one in this thread has been bigoted and a lot of people are being looked at like the bad guy. Proved my point, no?

    No one is saying they don’t want it added, this is what you and everyone else frothing at the mouth is missing. We want it added, we just don’t want it forced on us into our games. It’s more of a pre-emptive, “Hey, EA, if you add X, please look into Y beforehand”. That’s all it is. A suggestion and/or discussion on how it could be implemented.

    Let me repeat once more so the fourth time may be the charm. I don’t want it in my game, yet I want other people to have it in theirs. So, in order for this to work, a toggle could be made so that everyone is happy and enjoying the game they paid for. Having this option be turned off in my game does not affect or change your game. If I want my Sims to only use he/she as pronouns, how does this impact you? I am not forcing my Sims into your game, am I? If I don’t want random townies to use they as a pronoun, how does this impact you?

    It doesn’t.

    And the reason it doesn’t is because I want the option added – no doubt, I even said inclusivity is good but you ignored that – so that others may represent themselves. No one on this thread has demanded the option not be added. Everyone has supported it. You are cherry-picking to look like the good guy.

    Let me say it again: everyone in this thread wants the option added. EVERYONE. They just want the option to be a toggle so that it can be enabled and disabled at will in case they personally dislike it, yet want it for others. I have not seen a single post where someone has demanded they as a pronoun is not added.

    Okay. Onto the next part.

    I’m sorry, but when did I ask to not have pride objects or clothing? Why’re you assuming things? I’m homosexual (gay in case that gets filtered) myself. And while I don’t support the whole pride movement as it’s nothing more than a corporate grab to exploit a community that is constantly hurt and taken advantage of, I would never deny that from other people who like to use that as a way to spread awareness or feel better about themselves. Head coverings? I’m sorry, but what? I am an avid believer in allowing people to wear whatever they desire, especially religious garb – even though religion is not present in the Sims. Modest dress? Oh dear. I prefer modesty over… certain clothing items. However, as I said above: I am an avid believer in allowing people to wear whatever they desire.

    Please don’t slander my character with assumptions and lies because you need to prove a point because you lack an actual argument. I have never once stated that none of these things should not be added. The Sims helped me find myself when I was young. A company that had gay couple actions in it really changed my life. You dare assume I would not want other people to experience that just because I don’t want one option in my game?

    It’s not our world. It’s my game, it’s your game, and it’s the game of everyone else. There is no our. This isn’t an MMORPG where we all play together. Even then, as I have said many times, no one is asking for the option to never be added, just that they want it a toggle.
  • ncisGibbs02ncisGibbs02 Posts: 1,702 Member
    While I can understand where your objection is coming from, it's not really fair to accuse of people of just trying to stir up fear.

    Because, at least in my case, I am being 100% serious in my fear/concern that the current pronouns will get removed/replaced, which is why I am continuously expressing it.

    I know nothing in the livestream suggests that will happen but the one part of the petition (which is likely why the gurus even brought this whole thing up) DOES imply to me that replacing all existing text within the game with gender neutral pronouns is a possibility that they want. And I'm legitimately afraid that that's the route the devs will choose to take especially as more people sign the petition.

    So no, I personally am not being dishonest by suggesting this is a possibility. I am literally afraid it will happen and I'll have to search for a mod to reverse it. And I actually talked about this on my post for the 411 feedback thing. That's how concerned I am about this.

    And before anyone suggests that I need mental help... I'm already getting it :cold_sweat: have been for 4 years now and barely no improvement.

    I wasn’t trying to stir up fear nor anything of the like.
    I took the vague ‘we’re going on a journey’ as unhelpful. They must have some plan, why mention it at all? No one starts a journey just to go nowhere. Even a mystery tour ends up SOMEWHERE.
    The vagueness strengthened my concern that they might changes universal which would be easier for them.

    Already in game, as I play rotational I find Bella flirted with Travis interim as both have a pink bar. I didn’t do that.

    This is why expressed my request for a toggle button because I wouldn’t like changes that might affect my Sims without my direction. I try and limit mods as there’s so many! The petition does imply action but companies don’t always take action.

    @MeowchaFrappe don’t worry about how long it takes to battle mental health. I’m recovering from a neck injury and I developed depression due to the restricted mobility. It’s been two years for me. I just take one day at a time. I always try and find one positive thing at the end of each day. I don’t know if that would help you but I wish you all the best. It’s not easy.

    Giving Sims 4 High School Years a try. 🤔👀🍷
  • dearie_blossomdearie_blossom Posts: 707 Member
    Right so,
    I’ve read this (quite popular? ) petition. This is what they’re asking:
    If we could have the option to choose pronouns for our sim or for the team to switch older game texts to be gender neutral like current pack dialoged it would be impactful for those of us who are still unable to truly feel represented in the game by having our sims selves misgendered.
    To this:
    If we could have the option to choose pronouns for our sim
    I’d say of course! That’s fair. Why not? Abso-blooming-lootely. Options, Options. (Options is the Magic Word!)

    To this:
    or for the team to switch older game texts to be gender neutral like current pack dialoged it would be impactful for those of us who are still unable to truly feel represented in the game by having our sims selves misgendered.
    I’d say why?
    Calling for all game texts to be gender neutral is the same thing as me asking for non binary/ transgender options to be omitted (which me nor anybody else did as far as I know). Same principle, unless I misunderstood.

    Did I misunderstand? 🤔


    Ps: Trying to learn, not to offend.

    Isn‘t it funny that the people who accuse us of wanting to hide non-binary people are the same ones starting a petition to hide us binary people? The same people who shout representation want 99% of the population to not be represented.
  • WaytoomanyUIDsWaytoomanyUIDs Posts: 816 Member
    Y'all REALLY need to chillax.

    EA/MAXIS has never made such a sweeping change to the game. Like all the other changes to gender and sexuality it will be a matter of player choice

    Mortimer Goth will remain male, Bella will remain female, but maybe we will be able to take Morgyn Ember into CAS and make them properly non binary.

    Origin/Gallery ID: WaytoomanyUIDs
  • ncisGibbs02ncisGibbs02 Posts: 1,702 Member
    Y'all REALLY need to chillax.

    EA/MAXIS has never made such a sweeping change to the game. Like all the other changes to gender and sexuality it will be a matter of player choice

    Mortimer Goth will remain male, Bella will remain female, but maybe we will be able to take Morgyn Ember into CAS and make them properly non binary.
    They haven’t said how they will tackle things. That’s the problem. They said it’s a journey but with no details. I envisage going on a journey to be big, like packing for a holiday. So thier ideals must be big.

    They issued a roadmap for summer. Surely they could give something.

    Which pack does Morgyn Ember come with? I don’t have them all. The name keeps popping up but I haven’t seen this Sim in my towns.

    As for chillax... 😂😂😂 probably not but I’ll try. 😂

    Giving Sims 4 High School Years a try. 🤔👀🍷
  • WaytoomanyUIDsWaytoomanyUIDs Posts: 816 Member
    edited May 2021
    @ncisGibbs02 They are one of the Sages of Magic. The simgurus have hinted and the popular fan canon is that they are NB, asexual or both.

    Other simmers take them into CAS, give them a make over and make them able to have children or bear children. That's their choice, no-one is stopping them.

    ED spellung

    ED 2 And while its probably a good idea to assume EA/Maxis will disappoint you, they usually dont go out their way to outrage you. Hence me urging people to relax a bit.
    Origin/Gallery ID: WaytoomanyUIDs
  • CAPTAIN_NXR7CAPTAIN_NXR7 Posts: 3,787 Member

    Sure look @Sindocat,
    at this point it doesn’t seem to matter how much further we discuss this topic: apparently it’s too late and the damage has been done.
    All of us option-seeking folks are just a nasty bunch of bigots, trans- phobes , ho.mo-phobes, liars and racists chanting all kinds of evilness at you and like minded people from our Big Ugly Bigot Boat.

    Although I agree that OP should edit their original post and include what exactly has been said in the livestream, there’s not much in this discussion that will change. The concerns remain. It won’t stop us wondering about potential implementation of non-binary pronouns and how this will affect existing systems. It won’t stop us looking for solutions and asking for more options. This is game development and we’re all part of a huge community that could offer insights surrounding a very sensitive subject. That’s what forums are for. We just want this game to be the best it can be for everyone.

    It’s unfortunate that you regard all of this as harassment and that you’re personally offended by it.
    I hope no one in this thread feels personally offended by the constant name calling though. I for one will never apologize to anyone who doesn’t know me and resorts to name calling. Sure I can try and defend myself by telling you all about my life and the people I’m involved with, but it’s not worth it. Because it won’t matter. No one throwing insults at me just for sharing an opinion and looking for options and solutions deserves to know anything about me. Not that anybody should care. 😂 And I hope people treat me the same way in case I was ever to do such a thing. I’m not exactly an angel around these parts either.

    All the drama aside, I’m glad I can say that so far I’ve learned a lot from folks who participated in this thread. Especially from those who’s first language is not English and those who are able to offer insights into language and culture and can confirm how complex this situation actually is. Much appreciated. I’m interested in finding out how Maxis is going to deal with it.

    Hopefully we’ll all get what we want out of this! 👍🏼
  • ncisGibbs02ncisGibbs02 Posts: 1,702 Member
    it doesn’t seem to matter how much further we discuss this topic: apparently it’s too late and the damage has been done.
    All of us option-seeking folks are just a nasty bunch of bigots, trans- phobes , ho.mo-phobes, liars and racists chanting all kinds of evilness at you and like minded people from our Big Ugly Bigot Boat.

    Although I agree that OP should edit their original post and include what exactly has been said in the livestream, there’s not much in this discussion that will change. The concerns remain. It won’t stop us wondering about potential implementation of non-binary pronouns and how this will affect existing systems. It won’t stop us looking for solutions and asking for more options. This is game development and we’re all part of a huge community that could offer insights surrounding a very sensitive subject. That’s what forums are for. We just want this game to be the best it can be for everyone.

    It’s unfortunate that you regard all of this as harassment and that you’re personally offended by it.
    I hope no one in this thread feels personally offended by the constant name calling though. I for one will never apologize to anyone who doesn’t know me and resorts to name calling. Sure I can try and defend myself by telling you all about my life and the people I’m involved with, but it’s not worth it. Because it won’t matter. No one throwing insults at me just for sharing an opinion and looking for options and solutions deserves to know anything about me. Not that anybody should care. 😂 And I hope people treat me the same way in case I was ever to do such a thing. I’m not exactly an angel around these parts either.

    All the drama aside, I’m glad I can say that so far I’ve learned a lot from folks who participated in this thread. Especially from those who’s first language is not English and those who are able to offer insights into language and culture and can confirm how complex this situation actually is. Much appreciated. I’m interested in finding out how Maxis is going to deal with it.

    Hopefully we’ll all get what we want out of this! 👍🏼

    Yes it’s a shame requesting options is seen as wanting total exclusions. I never said don’t add gender neutral texts. I asked for a toggle.

    There is never a need for name calling. We should all be able to communicate because that’s why a forum exists. To discuss things.

    I won’t edit my post. We all process information differently. All I heard was a vague ‘we’re going on a journey rather than a destination.’ I don’t understand what that means. That’s why I was asking for options. The developers read these forums to so I wanted to share my thoughts.

    I’m glad so many of you are willing to talk and it’s interesting to read your thoughts. I’ve found out something about Finland. Others share my concern about how this is going to be done. I’m also interested to see how Maxis plan to deal with this.

    Thanks for your thoughts @CAPTAIN_NXR7. 😎

    Giving Sims 4 High School Years a try. 🤔👀🍷
  • MeowchaFrappeMeowchaFrappe Posts: 795 Member
    While I can understand where your objection is coming from, it's not really fair to accuse of people of just trying to stir up fear.

    Because, at least in my case, I am being 100% serious in my fear/concern that the current pronouns will get removed/replaced, which is why I am continuously expressing it.

    I know nothing in the livestream suggests that will happen but the one part of the petition (which is likely why the gurus even brought this whole thing up) DOES imply to me that replacing all existing text within the game with gender neutral pronouns is a possibility that they want. And I'm legitimately afraid that that's the route the devs will choose to take especially as more people sign the petition.

    So no, I personally am not being dishonest by suggesting this is a possibility. I am literally afraid it will happen and I'll have to search for a mod to reverse it. And I actually talked about this on my post for the 411 feedback thing. That's how concerned I am about this.

    And before anyone suggests that I need mental help... I'm already getting it :cold_sweat: have been for 4 years now and barely no improvement.

    I wasn’t trying to stir up fear nor anything of the like.
    I took the vague ‘we’re going on a journey’ as unhelpful. They must have some plan, why mention it at all? No one starts a journey just to go nowhere. Even a mystery tour ends up SOMEWHERE.
    The vagueness strengthened my concern that they might changes universal which would be easier for them.

    Already in game, as I play rotational I find Bella flirted with Travis interim as both have a pink bar. I didn’t do that.

    This is why expressed my request for a toggle button because I wouldn’t like changes that might affect my Sims without my direction. I try and limit mods as there’s so many! The petition does imply action but companies don’t always take action.

    @MeowchaFrappe don’t worry about how long it takes to battle mental health. I’m recovering from a neck injury and I developed depression due to the restricted mobility. It’s been two years for me. I just take one day at a time. I always try and find one positive thing at the end of each day. I don’t know if that would help you but I wish you all the best. It’s not easy.

    I suspected the reason for this thread was more to try and get clarity and to get an idea of how people would like gender neutral pronouns to be added. Like, I defintely didn't assume that you were trying to stir up fear, which is why I wasn't going to flat out accuse you. I'm sorry if my previous message came across that way though, it was not my intention.

    And I totally understand your concern about too much happening to your Sims without your discrection. That's actually why I tend to avoid rotational play, although my concern is more along the lines of, I don't want random things happening to my played Sims randomly. Like if I'm playing with my Simself or another sim meant to represent me, I don't want to switch households and find her dancing at a nightclub when I myself didn't send her there, because I myself would never go to a nightclub on my own accord. The only way I'm going is if someone all but begs me to and even then, I'd just sit down in a corner awkwardly. I sure as heck wouldn't be dancing. The only reason I danced at my prom was because I had a sugar high and my friend forced to me too. :tongue: So yeah, I defintely get where you're coming from.

    And thank you. That actually means a lot. I suffer from both depression and almost crippling anxiety (both social and generalized) Like my anxiety is so bad that I can't work, drive, or even cook. And in addition to therepy, I've also been on numerous medications.

    But thanks to the expectations of society, I feel like the fact that I'm almost 24, almost five years out of high school and am far from having my life together, that I'm a failure and never will do anything in my life. I feel like I'm "running out of time" so to speak. :neutral:

    So when I say it means a lot, it really does. So thank you so much again. And for the advice as well.

  • catmando830catmando830 Posts: 9,082 Member
    Wolfium wrote: »
    I guess they'll add non binary in CAS gender settings so it will be a choice for played sim, but NPCs will be randomly generated as male/female/neither.

    The choice should include even the random generated Sims in game. I’m a traditionalist, old fashioned player.

    I want all the Sims in my game, that I paid for with my money, whether I play them or not to be the way I want them.

  • Ray_TraceRay_Trace Posts: 400 Member
    I'm genderfluid and I think people are making too much of a big deal over the possible inclusion of a nonbinary gender option. People in this thread have suggested tuning for what types of townies will appear, and honestly? That's a very interesting idea. I love the idea of playing in an all female world, or an all male world, or a world where dark-skinned people are the majority, or adjusting spawn and tuning rates so that males can still spawn but at a lesser frequency than females. It can be complicated to tune to all of the different customization options you can get but I think it'd be worth it to have at least a basic tuning feature for such appearances.
    A1hnP0t.png
  • OnverserOnverser Posts: 3,266 Member
    edited May 2021
    Onverser wrote: »
    Wolfium wrote: »
    Onverser wrote: »
    I just really hope if they do add more pronoun options they'll do it properly and make them optional so we have choice. I worry that they'll take the lazy route and just nerf all gendered text and replace it all with "they" as it's easier, like when they nerfed occults instead of giving players the choice.

    Till now it was him or her based on townie's gender. When they add non binary, they'll add they to him/her. Based on townie gender, him/her/they will appear in text. What's hard I guess is different languages to translate to.

    That's what I'm saying, I hope they'll do it properly like that rather than taking the easy option and changing all text for all sims to they/them regardless of gender.

    Welp.. Many of the new text popups from the update are forced gender neutral regardless of the sims gender.. This is what people were worried about 😭

    (not my screenshot)
    824-FEFFC-F477-4-FC2-B6-FF-82-D2-A6-E98-CEE.png
  • ForgeronForgeron Posts: 272 Member
    edited May 2021
    I'm kinda offended by this post, some kinda of passive agressive offense. i guess people want to live in a made up world in their minds that nonbinary people doesn't exist. I see a lot of you acting the fool here just to raise the flag of hatred. If you don't wan't your simself to be referenced as neutral I'm sure they won't remove the male/female gender options from the game, you just gotta think a lil bit. Even when you create and email you can pick one of the 3 options or none at all.
    A toggle to stop random townies? nah. A toggle to stop only random townies from being nonbinary? Priorities.
  • ncisGibbs02ncisGibbs02 Posts: 1,702 Member
    edited May 2021
    Onverser wrote: »
    Onverser wrote: »
    Wolfium wrote: »
    Onverser wrote: »
    I just really hope if they do add more pronoun options they'll do it properly and make them optional so we have choice. I worry that they'll take the lazy route and just nerf all gendered text and replace it all with "they" as it's easier, like when they nerfed occults instead of giving players the choice.

    Till now it was him or her based on townie's gender. When they add non binary, they'll add they to him/her. Based on townie gender, him/her/they will appear in text. What's hard I guess is different languages to translate to.

    That's what I'm saying, I hope they'll do it properly like that rather than taking the easy option and changing all text for all sims to they/them regardless of gender.

    Welp.. Many of the new text popups from the update are forced gender neutral regardless of the sims gender.. This is what people were worried about 😭

    (not my screenshot)
    824-FEFFC-F477-4-FC2-B6-FF-82-D2-A6-E98-CEE.png

    Thank you @Onverser for sharing your picture. Perhaps having all texts changes was easier.

    I don’t understand why some members think I want all non binary people to vanish. I get very upset by such sentences because that’s not me at all. I know what it’s like to be treated as if you don’t exist.

    It’s about keeping texts relevant to the Sim you’ve made. Unless Luddle has been designated non binary, it should read Luddle is in his/her element.

    When I play my Twilight save that text will be jarring. Also in my 1970s save will be affected. Which is difficult already with no landlines and having to pretend there’s one.

    ‘I’m only asking for a toggle button.’
    Post edited by ncisGibbs02 on
    Giving Sims 4 High School Years a try. 🤔👀🍷
  • halloweenchildhalloweenchild Posts: 1,515 Member
    edited May 2021
    Onverser wrote: »
    Onverser wrote: »
    Wolfium wrote: »
    Onverser wrote: »
    I just really hope if they do add more pronoun options they'll do it properly and make them optional so we have choice. I worry that they'll take the lazy route and just nerf all gendered text and replace it all with "they" as it's easier, like when they nerfed occults instead of giving players the choice.

    Till now it was him or her based on townie's gender. When they add non binary, they'll add they to him/her. Based on townie gender, him/her/they will appear in text. What's hard I guess is different languages to translate to.

    That's what I'm saying, I hope they'll do it properly like that rather than taking the easy option and changing all text for all sims to they/them regardless of gender.

    Welp.. Many of the new text popups from the update are forced gender neutral regardless of the sims gender.. This is what people were worried about 😭

    (not my screenshot)
    824-FEFFC-F477-4-FC2-B6-FF-82-D2-A6-E98-CEE.png

    Thank you @Onverser for sharing your picture. Perhaps having all texts changes was easier.

    I don’t understand why some members think I want all non binary people to vanish. I get very upset by such sentences because that’s not me at all. I know what it’s like to be treated as if you don’t exist.

    It’s about keeping texts relevant to the Sim you’ve made. Unless Luddle has been designated non binary, it should read Luddle is in his/her element.

    When I play my Twilight save that text will be jarring. Also in my 1970s save will be affected. Which is difficult already with no landlines and having to pretend there’s one.

    ‘I’m only asking for a toggle button.’

    Imho, a text-only gender neutralisation comes across as half-🤔🤔🤔🤔 and lazy to me at least. If they're going to make the game true a "safe space and welcoming to all" they should just add Non-binary as an option to CaS when you go into making a new family/sim, that way it's more in the player's hands rather than a blanketed term for all sims. Instead, they got the easy way and just dilute the game even further.
    Like, I've seen people mistaking the conversations in this thread as "people wishing that non-binary sims/people didn't exist", well using that logic I say, by taking away the she/her/he/him pronouns is erasing binary/gender-conforming sims and players. No one is a sexless and barbie doll, and people who want to play their game with their simself, now can't because that binary in the text at least is gone.

    I really wish we could keep this Twitter nonsense out of the Sims and gaming in general, but unfortunately, EA and other companies need to pander to them young 'uns to get dem cash greens.

    Sorry if this sounds like a stream of consciousness or comes across as rude, I really need to stop posting when I've had a busy day.

    Edited because I decided to stick around and dry my brain out even further.
    Post edited by halloweenchild on
    Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
  • CAPTAIN_NXR7CAPTAIN_NXR7 Posts: 3,787 Member
    edited May 2021
    Deleted.

    Tired of my own nonsense. 😂
    Post edited by CAPTAIN_NXR7 on
  • dearie_blossomdearie_blossom Posts: 707 Member
    Onverser wrote: »
    Onverser wrote: »
    Wolfium wrote: »
    Onverser wrote: »
    I just really hope if they do add more pronoun options they'll do it properly and make them optional so we have choice. I worry that they'll take the lazy route and just nerf all gendered text and replace it all with "they" as it's easier, like when they nerfed occults instead of giving players the choice.

    Till now it was him or her based on townie's gender. When they add non binary, they'll add they to him/her. Based on townie gender, him/her/they will appear in text. What's hard I guess is different languages to translate to.

    That's what I'm saying, I hope they'll do it properly like that rather than taking the easy option and changing all text for all sims to they/them regardless of gender.

    Welp.. Many of the new text popups from the update are forced gender neutral regardless of the sims gender.. This is what people were worried about 😭

    (not my screenshot)
    824-FEFFC-F477-4-FC2-B6-FF-82-D2-A6-E98-CEE.png

    Thank you @Onverser for sharing your picture. Perhaps having all texts changes was easier.

    I don’t understand why some members think I want all non binary people to vanish. I get very upset by such sentences because that’s not me at all. I know what it’s like to be treated as if you don’t exist.

    It’s about keeping texts relevant to the Sim you’ve made. Unless Luddle has been designated non binary, it should read Luddle is in his/her element.

    When I play my Twilight save that text will be jarring. Also in my 1970s save will be affected. Which is difficult already with no landlines and having to pretend there’s one.

    ‘I’m only asking for a toggle button.’
    It was obvious that EA would go the lazy route and just erase gendered pronouns. Representation and inclusion for all… but 99% of the population. I‘m so tired of this stupid movement.
  • ncisGibbs02ncisGibbs02 Posts: 1,702 Member
    edited May 2021
    Onverser wrote: »
    Onverser wrote: »
    Wolfium wrote: »
    Onverser wrote: »
    I just really hope if they do add more pronoun options they'll do it properly and make them optional so we have choice. I worry that they'll take the lazy route and just nerf all gendered text and replace it all with "they" as it's easier, like when they nerfed occults instead of giving players the choice.

    Till now it was him or her based on townie's gender. When they add non binary, they'll add they to him/her. Based on townie gender, him/her/they will appear in text. What's hard I guess is different languages to translate to.

    That's what I'm saying, I hope they'll do it properly like that rather than taking the easy option and changing all text for all sims to they/them regardless of gender.

    Welp.. Many of the new text popups from the update are forced gender neutral regardless of the sims gender.. This is what people were worried about 😭

    (not my screenshot)
    824-FEFFC-F477-4-FC2-B6-FF-82-D2-A6-E98-CEE.png

    Thank you @Onverser for sharing your picture. Perhaps having all texts changes was easier.

    I don’t understand why some members think I want all non binary people to vanish. I get very upset by such sentences because that’s not me at all. I know what it’s like to be treated as if you don’t exist.

    It’s about keeping texts relevant to the Sim you’ve made. Unless Luddle has been designated non binary, it should read Luddle is in his/her element.

    When I play my Twilight save that text will be jarring. Also in my 1970s save will be affected. Which is difficult already with no landlines and having to pretend there’s one.

    ‘I’m only asking for a toggle button.’
    It was obvious that EA would go the lazy route and just erase gendered pronouns. Representation and inclusion for all… but 99% of the population. I‘m so tired of this stupid movement.

    Changing all the texts seemed the most logical route, that was why I when I saw the livestream I thought I’d like to say please include options.

    I wouldn’t call this movement stupid. It’s not to them. Many groups face hardships so I would rephrase ‘I’m confused over this movement.’ I hope you won’t be mad with me @dearie_blossom

    I’m confused. I’m trying to do research on the history of non binary movement. I’m trying to understand why asking for options = I’m in my secret basement building a machine to sweep them all off the Earth!

    Maybe there’s something I’m missing and that’s why things are so volatile. I’m baffled.

    What’s a shame is that you can’t talk about it or express the word options without it being taken out of context. I’m really upset.

    I just wanted to ensure there was the option for my male Sims to have he/him, females she/her and any non-binary could have they/them. The right designation for the Sim you’re playing. Does that make sense?

    I am going to change the name to Gender Neutral Options.
    I would like to thank so many of you for your thoughts and input. I found out how Finland deal with this and it’s been good to chat with some of you.
    @MeowchaFrappe @Onverser @halloweenchild @dearie_blossom (and anyone else whose spoken nicely to me).

    Also:
    I’m not watching anymore livestreams either!

    Post edited by ncisGibbs02 on
    Giving Sims 4 High School Years a try. 🤔👀🍷
  • halloweenchildhalloweenchild Posts: 1,515 Member
    Onverser wrote: »
    Onverser wrote: »
    Wolfium wrote: »
    Onverser wrote: »
    I just really hope if they do add more pronoun options they'll do it properly and make them optional so we have choice. I worry that they'll take the lazy route and just nerf all gendered text and replace it all with "they" as it's easier, like when they nerfed occults instead of giving players the choice.

    Till now it was him or her based on townie's gender. When they add non binary, they'll add they to him/her. Based on townie gender, him/her/they will appear in text. What's hard I guess is different languages to translate to.

    That's what I'm saying, I hope they'll do it properly like that rather than taking the easy option and changing all text for all sims to they/them regardless of gender.

    Welp.. Many of the new text popups from the update are forced gender neutral regardless of the sims gender.. This is what people were worried about 😭

    (not my screenshot)
    824-FEFFC-F477-4-FC2-B6-FF-82-D2-A6-E98-CEE.png

    Thank you @Onverser for sharing your picture. Perhaps having all texts changes was easier.

    I don’t understand why some members think I want all non binary people to vanish. I get very upset by such sentences because that’s not me at all. I know what it’s like to be treated as if you don’t exist.

    It’s about keeping texts relevant to the Sim you’ve made. Unless Luddle has been designated non binary, it should read Luddle is in his/her element.

    When I play my Twilight save that text will be jarring. Also in my 1970s save will be affected. Which is difficult already with no landlines and having to pretend there’s one.

    ‘I’m only asking for a toggle button.’
    It was obvious that EA would go the lazy route and just erase gendered pronouns. Representation and inclusion for all… but 99% of the population. I‘m so tired of this stupid movement.

    Changing all the texts seemed the most logical route, that was why I when I saw the livestream I thought I’d like to say please include options.

    I wouldn’t call this movement stupid. It’s not to them. Many groups face hardships so I would rephrase ‘I’m confused over this movement.’ I hope you won’t be mad with me @dearie_blossom

    I’m confused. I’m trying to do research on the history of non binary movement. I’m trying to understand why asking for options = I’m in my secret basement building a machine to sweep them all off the Earth!

    Maybe there’s something I’m missing and that’s why things are so volatile.

    What’s a shame is that you can’t talk about it or express the word options without it being taken out of context.

    I just wanted to ensure there was the option for my male Sims to have he/him, females she/her and any non-binary could have they/them. The right designation for the Sim you’re playing. Does that make sense?

    I am going to ask for this topic to be closed.
    I’m not watching anymore livestreams either.
    Nor getting anymore Sims 4 packs, the fun’s gone.
    I’m just playing Sims 3 permanently, I’ll still vote on stuff on the forums and help where I can.

    I think there's still a lot here to be discussed, but it's difficult because too many people are willing to take everything out of context and jump down everybody's throats, even though we're just trying to understand the reasoning behind such strong demands and expressing concerns at how the Guru's are going to go about making the changes.

    It seems that the Guru's have gone along the path of least resistance and have just done a blanket edit of the sims, and have erased the binary, to appease the 1% of players it would make happy. Even though you can't make true non-binary sims.

    I'm starting to get the feeling that most new sims players don't want The Sims TM, they want a virtual dollhouse. If this is the direction of the franchise going ahead into Ts5 and any possible spinoffs, then I fear that The Sims will die the death of a thousand cuts, just to appease the current trends on Twitter.

    I'm holding out for the last of the occults, and then I won't buy any more packs for Ts4. I am done.
    Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,496 Member
    edited May 2021
    How does just a blanket neutral pronoun represent the gay community who still want to be called he. Or the lesbian community who still want to be called a she. Or the straight community who still want to be called he or she. And how in the world can this say this is even fair to those who transitioned to female or male and wanted to be referred to as he or she? I can't get over the lack of respect for all the people I just mentioned. Is this really what nonbinary players wanted for no respect for everyone else? Really Maxis? In one swoop of a neutral pronoun for everyone, you strip the individual of their identity. Shameless.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • dearie_blossomdearie_blossom Posts: 707 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    How does just a blanket neutral pronoun represent the gay community who still want to be called he. Or the lesbian community who still want to be called a she. Or the straight community who still want to be called he and she. And how in the world can this say this is even fair to those who transitioned to female or male and wanted to be referred to he or she? I can't get over the lack of respect for all the people I just mentioned.
    They will only revert the changes if the last group complains…
  • ncisGibbs02ncisGibbs02 Posts: 1,702 Member
    edited May 2021
    Cinebar wrote: »
    How does just a blanket neutral pronoun represent the gay community who still want to be called he. Or the lesbian community who still want to be called a she. Or the straight community who still want to be called he or she. And how in the world can this say this is even fair to those who transitioned to female or male and wanted to be referred to he or she? I can't get over the lack of respect for all the people I just mentioned. Is this really what nonbinary players wanted for no respect for everyone else? Really Maxis?
    Would the game recognise a male Sim becoming female if that were an option?
    I think that would be best. The right texts for the Sim you’re currently playing.

    I’ve decided to remove the request to close. @halloweenchild maybe correct that there’s still things to discuss.
    I’ll see how it goes.


    Giving Sims 4 High School Years a try. 🤔👀🍷
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,496 Member
    edited May 2021
    Cinebar wrote: »
    How does just a blanket neutral pronoun represent the gay community who still want to be called he. Or the lesbian community who still want to be called a she. Or the straight community who still want to be called he or she. And how in the world can this say this is even fair to those who transitioned to female or male and wanted to be referred to he or she? I can't get over the lack of respect for all the people I just mentioned. Is this really what nonbinary players wanted for no respect for everyone else? Really Maxis?
    Would the game recognise a male Sim becoming female if that were an option?
    I think that would be best. The right texts for the Sim you’re currently playing.

    I’ve decided to remove the request to close. @halloweenchild maybe correct that there’s still things to discuss.
    I’ll see how it goes.


    But they didn't do that. They just decided we are non important people and we are all they and them and their etc. It's time to end support for Maxis if they are going to erase the individual's deep seeded identity to appease those who have no respect for an individual and want no gender identity at all for everyone. I can't even.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • MissyHissyMissyHissy Posts: 1,967 Member
    When the possibility of gender neutral pronouns for the game first game up, I thought they were going to expand the existing pronouns.
    When I'm writing up buff descriptions for my mods, I use the {M0.him}{F0.her} system and I truly assumed that NMaxis would add an {N0.they} to the system, alongside a Non-Binary gender option in CAS. That made the most sense to me and allows everyone to create the Sims they want to create.

    Looking at the screenshot @Onverser shared, I'm assuming they won't be using that system anymore and instead just going to replace all in-game text with they?

    Personally, I'd have been happy with the inclusion of {N0.they} because, from a modder's perspective, I would be able to include that in all my descriptions and then, hopefully, everyone would be happy because each individual sim would have the correct pronouns.
    Surely changing everything to them/them isn't being as inclusive as it could be? I though including it as a legitimate option in CAS and then having the pronouns to fit it, would have made sense.
    MiAqoAE.png
  • BabykittyjadeBabykittyjade Posts: 4,363 Member
    edited May 2021
    I think it's something that needs to be discussed but "can't" be discussed without looking like your anti non binary and people attacking you for having a right to your opinion or your gender just as they have a right to theirs.
    It's becoming that boys and girls don't matter anymore and eventually non binary will be the standard gender so it seems with how hard they are pushing it (everywhere not just sims)
    And I'm annoyed with how many times I have to say I have NOTHING against non binary people. I'm accepting of all people and respect their choices.
    I just don't want my identity buried. As many people are still he and she respectively. Probably the mass population.

    I got attacked by a GC for adding my opinion on a discussion on this very topic.
    I was trying to explain how this just doesn't work well in most South Asian languages and how complex it becomes because how we handle gender and how everything is gendered. We can't insert a neutral world and expect it to just make sense with the whole sentence.
    Plus Neutral words like "they" are reserved for signs of respect like for a husband. I have discussed this with family as it seems to be a hot topic now days but I don't personally know any non binary so maybe they have come up with new words or something Idk. And spanish has less complex yet similar rules.
    But the GC got super offended like I'm trying to say non binary shouldn't be added to the game and they also said I don't have the right to speak for anybody of that language.
    I'm like dude, I AM south Asian and I'm also fluent in Spanish and English as I do interpreting three days a week.
    Also with many friends from different Spanish speaking counties. And even if I wasn't there are many people who speak and understand the rules of multiple other languages well enough to speak on it. No reason they should be silenced.

    I was Trying to explain why it's not a simple matter. But I just left everyone else to fight it out on twitter.
    GC apologize but then deleted the apology lol

    It's was obvious the sims are going to go the simple route here and most likely nerf gender as exampled in the above picture, yet I'm still more dissapointed than I thought I would be😖
    Zombies, oh please oh please give us zombies!! :'(
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