I have less of an issue with wanting an entire world of fantasy people than I do with turning off actual real world types of people in typical "realistic"* game play. I will always think it is bigotted to say "these types of people who are doing no harm to me should not exist" and I don't get the impression it's the ethos that the creators of the franchise stand behind. I don't think it would make sense in this sort of game.
Having a couple of extra options would make sense in my game. I don’t care about your game or anybody else’s game. The more options we all get, the better. Realistic gameplay or totally fantasy? Doesn’t matter. Everybody happy (ish).
I’ll quote again:
I will always think it is bigotted to say "these types of people who are doing no harm to me should not exist"...
What if they didn’t suit a particular story? Hear me out:
If I want to “turn off” all the natural blondes and pale skins in Selvadorada because I think that world feels more authentic with only a couple of locals, so what? Bye bye Nancy & Co. I’ve done it before and I’ll do it all over again.
If I want Mt. Komorebi to only have hetero sexual Japanese female inhabitants who eat from hot pots and nothing else, again, so what? If that means manually deleting all Sims except females with Japanese genetics so be it.
If I need an all white gay neighborhood because my story needs an all white gay neighborhood I’ll delete everything in there that’s not white and not gay. My game, my story, my choice.
Sorry for hurting anybody’s feelings for even mentioning it. If folks want to call me a bigot because I choose to delete a certain group of Sims in my game when it makes sense in my game, in my story, sure, that’s their choice. I just want options is all. Of course we’re not getting toggles for turning off or deleting Sims with specific genetics. Thank goodness for testing cheats enabled on. And mods.
I feel like I'm talking to a wall with much of this discussion. I think it's important for people who are reading it and possibly not feeling safe expressing their opinions towards inclusivity to know that they are not alone, which is why I joined in the conversation initially.
In that case I’m a huge wall who has no problem with inclusivity but simply needs options in game. Nobody has to feel unsafe around a wall. Walls just kinda stand there being a wall. If somebody doesn’t like the wall, they should climb and get over it.
One last thing I can't help but to comment on is your statement of, "If someone’s hurt by that kind of request I guess that’s their problem." If you're knowingly hurting people, that says something about you, not them.
Knowingly hurt people? Of course. That’s because I’m Mister Evil Mind Reader.
I suppose I’m potentially hurting people by simply participating in discussions on this forum. Somebody’s gonna get hurt by someone else’s opinion. If they let it hurt them, of course.
Here, I apologize for all the times I insulted folks with my opinions. And I apologize in advance, too. It probably won’t be the last time this will happen. I’m psychic that way.
Now, Maxis, how about more options, less nerfing and more gameplay? Thank you. 😎
Instead of a toggle, maybe treat it like real life and if you don't like someone for some reason like race or gender, don't interact with that person/Sim.
But it's not real life.
If I want to delete every SIM toddler in the game because I don't like playing with them I have that option.
If I want to delete every dog in the game because I don't like dogs, I have that option.
If I want to populate my world with aliens and have no humans at all, I have that choice.
If they force gender neutrality into my game, I want the choice to turn it off.
But you do have the choice. You can delete them, like you said with toddlers. To my knowledge, there's no toggle anywhere in the game that removes toddlers, or dogs for that matter, so why would there be a toggle to remove this?
Another thing (in edit: this isn't targeted to you btw just a general statement because of some posts I've read on the thread). They aren't going to remove gender. Just because they change the pronouns in popups to be gender neutral doesn't mean that gender is being removed. In the event they add a non-binary gender into cas, I can only imagine that it will be optional (like the custom gender settings we have right now).
Honestly, I don't see how they'd do it, but I'd love to see it happen.
but if they change the popups to be gender neutral are sims will not bge call he or she any more
I like my sim being a she and being called that isn't that what you want for your sims to be called what you like
having the popups to be gender neutral would just take away from everyone @greydonn
it would take away from trans sims to because then they can't be called he or she
My sim's daughter is still their daughter even if the popup saying she got an A refers to her as "they". My sims son is still their son, and their nonbinary child is still their nonbinary child.
If I refer to a stranger as "they", and they're a women, it doesn't make them not a women.
so it shouldn't matter to you if there are gender neutral pop ups because your gender neutral sims is still gender neutral no matter
what there called @greydonn
I would just like to reply to a specific part of your post, @CAPTAIN_NXR7 , but I am unsure about how to do that in quotes so I hope you don't mind me doing it this way.
I think it would be perfectly alright to delete sims that do not align with your story. By all means, delete any nonbinary sim you wish to if they don't fit your world, and delete any other sim while you're at it. But since there's not toggles for female sims, male sims, blond sims, sims with japanese decent, or any other type of sim, why should there be a toggle for nonbinary sims?
Instead of a toggle, maybe treat it like real life and if you don't like someone for some reason like race or gender, don't interact with that person/Sim.
But it's not real life.
If I want to delete every SIM toddler in the game because I don't like playing with them I have that option.
If I want to delete every dog in the game because I don't like dogs, I have that option.
If I want to populate my world with aliens and have no humans at all, I have that choice.
If they force gender neutrality into my game, I want the choice to turn it off.
But you do have the choice. You can delete them, like you said with toddlers. To my knowledge, there's no toggle anywhere in the game that removes toddlers, or dogs for that matter, so why would there be a toggle to remove this?
Another thing (in edit: this isn't targeted to you btw just a general statement because of some posts I've read on the thread). They aren't going to remove gender. Just because they change the pronouns in popups to be gender neutral doesn't mean that gender is being removed. In the event they add a non-binary gender into cas, I can only imagine that it will be optional (like the custom gender settings we have right now).
Honestly, I don't see how they'd do it, but I'd love to see it happen.
but if they change the popups to be gender neutral are sims will not bge call he or she any more
I like my sim being a she and being called that isn't that what you want for your sims to be called what you like
having the popups to be gender neutral would just take away from everyone @greydonn
it would take away from trans sims to because then they can't be called he or she
My sim's daughter is still their daughter even if the popup saying she got an A refers to her as "they". My sims son is still their son, and their nonbinary child is still their nonbinary child.
If I refer to a stranger as "they", and they're a women, it doesn't make them not a women.
so it shouldn't matter to you if there are gender neutral pop ups because your gender neutral sims is still gender neutral no matter
what there called @greydonn
Maybe? I feel like you're really cherry picking my post there, maybe I'm misunderstanding though.
Gendered popups only work for male sims and female sims. Gender neutral popups work for everyone, because they're neutral.
Instead of a toggle, maybe treat it like real life and if you don't like someone for some reason like race or gender, don't interact with that person/Sim.
But it's not real life.
If I want to delete every SIM toddler in the game because I don't like playing with them I have that option.
If I want to delete every dog in the game because I don't like dogs, I have that option.
If I want to populate my world with aliens and have no humans at all, I have that choice.
If they force gender neutrality into my game, I want the choice to turn it off.
But you do have the choice. You can delete them, like you said with toddlers. To my knowledge, there's no toggle anywhere in the game that removes toddlers, or dogs for that matter, so why would there be a toggle to remove this?
Another thing (in edit: this isn't targeted to you btw just a general statement because of some posts I've read on the thread). They aren't going to remove gender. Just because they change the pronouns in popups to be gender neutral doesn't mean that gender is being removed. In the event they add a non-binary gender into cas, I can only imagine that it will be optional (like the custom gender settings we have right now).
Honestly, I don't see how they'd do it, but I'd love to see it happen.
but if they change the popups to be gender neutral are sims will not bge call he or she any more
I like my sim being a she and being called that isn't that what you want for your sims to be called what you like
having the popups to be gender neutral would just take away from everyone @greydonn
it would take away from trans sims to because then they can't be called he or she
My sim's daughter is still their daughter even if the popup saying she got an A refers to her as "they". My sims son is still their son, and their nonbinary child is still their nonbinary child.
If I refer to a stranger as "they", and they're a women, it doesn't make them not a women.
so it shouldn't matter to you if there are gender neutral pop ups because your gender neutral sims is still gender neutral no matter
what there called @greydonn
Maybe? I feel like you're really cherry picking my post there, maybe I'm misunderstanding though.
Gendered popups only work for male sims and female sims. Gender neutral popups work for everyone, because they're neutral.
no they don't not if you want your sim to be called he or she @greydonn only Gender neutral want to be called they other people don't
want to be called that and they don't want there sims called that
Instead of a toggle, maybe treat it like real life and if you don't like someone for some reason like race or gender, don't interact with that person/Sim.
But it's not real life.
If I want to delete every SIM toddler in the game because I don't like playing with them I have that option.
If I want to delete every dog in the game because I don't like dogs, I have that option.
If I want to populate my world with aliens and have no humans at all, I have that choice.
If they force gender neutrality into my game, I want the choice to turn it off.
But you do have the choice. You can delete them, like you said with toddlers. To my knowledge, there's no toggle anywhere in the game that removes toddlers, or dogs for that matter, so why would there be a toggle to remove this?
Another thing (in edit: this isn't targeted to you btw just a general statement because of some posts I've read on the thread). They aren't going to remove gender. Just because they change the pronouns in popups to be gender neutral doesn't mean that gender is being removed. In the event they add a non-binary gender into cas, I can only imagine that it will be optional (like the custom gender settings we have right now).
Honestly, I don't see how they'd do it, but I'd love to see it happen.
but if they change the popups to be gender neutral are sims will not bge call he or she any more
I like my sim being a she and being called that isn't that what you want for your sims to be called what you like
having the popups to be gender neutral would just take away from everyone @greydonn
it would take away from trans sims to because then they can't be called he or she
My sim's daughter is still their daughter even if the popup saying she got an A refers to her as "they". My sims son is still their son, and their nonbinary child is still their nonbinary child.
If I refer to a stranger as "they", and they're a women, it doesn't make them not a women.
so it shouldn't matter to you if there are gender neutral pop ups because your gender neutral sims is still gender neutral no matter
what there called @greydonn
Maybe? I feel like you're really cherry picking my post there, maybe I'm misunderstanding though.
Gendered popups only work for male sims and female sims. Gender neutral popups work for everyone, because they're neutral.
no they don't not if you want your sim to be called he or she @greydonn only Gender neutral want to be called they other people don't
want to be called that and they don't want there sims called that
I have no problem being refered to as they, I'm not gender neutral, and I also have no problems and would even prefer my sims to have gender neutral pronouns in popups as well.
Instead of a toggle, maybe treat it like real life and if you don't like someone for some reason like race or gender, don't interact with that person/Sim.
But it's not real life.
If I want to delete every SIM toddler in the game because I don't like playing with them I have that option.
If I want to delete every dog in the game because I don't like dogs, I have that option.
If I want to populate my world with aliens and have no humans at all, I have that choice.
If they force gender neutrality into my game, I want the choice to turn it off.
But you do have the choice. You can delete them, like you said with toddlers. To my knowledge, there's no toggle anywhere in the game that removes toddlers, or dogs for that matter, so why would there be a toggle to remove this?
Another thing (in edit: this isn't targeted to you btw just a general statement because of some posts I've read on the thread). They aren't going to remove gender. Just because they change the pronouns in popups to be gender neutral doesn't mean that gender is being removed. In the event they add a non-binary gender into cas, I can only imagine that it will be optional (like the custom gender settings we have right now).
Honestly, I don't see how they'd do it, but I'd love to see it happen.
but if they change the popups to be gender neutral are sims will not bge call he or she any more
I like my sim being a she and being called that isn't that what you want for your sims to be called what you like
having the popups to be gender neutral would just take away from everyone @greydonn
it would take away from trans sims to because then they can't be called he or she
My sim's daughter is still their daughter even if the popup saying she got an A refers to her as "they". My sims son is still their son, and their nonbinary child is still their nonbinary child.
If I refer to a stranger as "they", and they're a women, it doesn't make them not a women.
so it shouldn't matter to you if there are gender neutral pop ups because your gender neutral sims is still gender neutral no matter
what there called @greydonn
Maybe? I feel like you're really cherry picking my post there, maybe I'm misunderstanding though.
Gendered popups only work for male sims and female sims. Gender neutral popups work for everyone, because they're neutral.
no they don't not if you want your sim to be called he or she @greydonn only Gender neutral want to be called they other people don't
want to be called that and they don't want there sims called that
I have no problem being refered to as they, I'm not gender neutral, and I also have no problems and would even prefer my sims to have gender neutral pronouns in popups as well.
well most people don't like being called a they its cool if your cool with it and its also okay if you want sims to be that way but
I sure don't and thats okay to maybe someday you will get an option in game to make it the way you want @greydonn
Instead of a toggle, maybe treat it like real life and if you don't like someone for some reason like race or gender, don't interact with that person/Sim.
But it's not real life.
If I want to delete every SIM toddler in the game because I don't like playing with them I have that option.
If I want to delete every dog in the game because I don't like dogs, I have that option.
If I want to populate my world with aliens and have no humans at all, I have that choice.
If they force gender neutrality into my game, I want the choice to turn it off.
But you do have the choice. You can delete them, like you said with toddlers. To my knowledge, there's no toggle anywhere in the game that removes toddlers, or dogs for that matter, so why would there be a toggle to remove this?
Another thing (in edit: this isn't targeted to you btw just a general statement because of some posts I've read on the thread). They aren't going to remove gender. Just because they change the pronouns in popups to be gender neutral doesn't mean that gender is being removed. In the event they add a non-binary gender into cas, I can only imagine that it will be optional (like the custom gender settings we have right now).
Honestly, I don't see how they'd do it, but I'd love to see it happen.
but if they change the popups to be gender neutral are sims will not bge call he or she any more
I like my sim being a she and being called that isn't that what you want for your sims to be called what you like
having the popups to be gender neutral would just take away from everyone @greydonn
it would take away from trans sims to because then they can't be called he or she
My sim's daughter is still their daughter even if the popup saying she got an A refers to her as "they". My sims son is still their son, and their nonbinary child is still their nonbinary child.
If I refer to a stranger as "they", and they're a women, it doesn't make them not a women.
so it shouldn't matter to you if there are gender neutral pop ups because your gender neutral sims is still gender neutral no matter
what there called @greydonn
Maybe? I feel like you're really cherry picking my post there, maybe I'm misunderstanding though.
Gendered popups only work for male sims and female sims. Gender neutral popups work for everyone, because they're neutral.
no they don't not if you want your sim to be called he or she @greydonn only Gender neutral want to be called they other people don't
want to be called that and they don't want there sims called that
I have no problem being refered to as they, I'm not gender neutral, and I also have no problems and would even prefer my sims to have gender neutral pronouns in popups as well.
well most people don't like being called a they its cool if your cool with it and its also okay if you want sims to be that way but
I sure don't and thats okay to maybe someday you will get an option in game to make it the way you want @greydonn
Instead of a toggle, maybe treat it like real life and if you don't like someone for some reason like race or gender, don't interact with that person/Sim.
But it's not real life.
If I want to delete every SIM toddler in the game because I don't like playing with them I have that option.
If I want to delete every dog in the game because I don't like dogs, I have that option.
If I want to populate my world with aliens and have no humans at all, I have that choice.
If they force gender neutrality into my game, I want the choice to turn it off.
But you do have the choice. You can delete them, like you said with toddlers. To my knowledge, there's no toggle anywhere in the game that removes toddlers, or dogs for that matter, so why would there be a toggle to remove this?
Another thing (in edit: this isn't targeted to you btw just a general statement because of some posts I've read on the thread). They aren't going to remove gender. Just because they change the pronouns in popups to be gender neutral doesn't mean that gender is being removed. In the event they add a non-binary gender into cas, I can only imagine that it will be optional (like the custom gender settings we have right now).
Honestly, I don't see how they'd do it, but I'd love to see it happen.
but if they change the popups to be gender neutral are sims will not bge call he or she any more
I like my sim being a she and being called that isn't that what you want for your sims to be called what you like
having the popups to be gender neutral would just take away from everyone @greydonn
it would take away from trans sims to because then they can't be called he or she
My sim's daughter is still their daughter even if the popup saying she got an A refers to her as "they". My sims son is still their son, and their nonbinary child is still their nonbinary child.
If I refer to a stranger as "they", and they're a women, it doesn't make them not a women.
so it shouldn't matter to you if there are gender neutral pop ups because your gender neutral sims is still gender neutral no matter
what there called @greydonn
Maybe? I feel like you're really cherry picking my post there, maybe I'm misunderstanding though.
Gendered popups only work for male sims and female sims. Gender neutral popups work for everyone, because they're neutral.
no they don't not if you want your sim to be called he or she @greydonn only Gender neutral want to be called they other people don't
want to be called that and they don't want there sims called that
I have no problem being refered to as they, I'm not gender neutral, and I also have no problems and would even prefer my sims to have gender neutral pronouns in popups as well.
well most people don't like being called a they its cool if your cool with it and its also okay if you want sims to be that way but
I sure don't and thats okay to maybe someday you will get an option in game to make it the way you want @greydonn
I sure do hope we get that option.
I hope we get slow dance soon @greydonn its my top most wanted thing
Instead of a toggle, maybe treat it like real life and if you don't like someone for some reason like race or gender, don't interact with that person/Sim.
But it's not real life.
If I want to delete every SIM toddler in the game because I don't like playing with them I have that option.
If I want to delete every dog in the game because I don't like dogs, I have that option.
If I want to populate my world with aliens and have no humans at all, I have that choice.
If they force gender neutrality into my game, I want the choice to turn it off.
But you do have the choice. You can delete them, like you said with toddlers. To my knowledge, there's no toggle anywhere in the game that removes toddlers, or dogs for that matter, so why would there be a toggle to remove this?
Another thing (in edit: this isn't targeted to you btw just a general statement because of some posts I've read on the thread). They aren't going to remove gender. Just because they change the pronouns in popups to be gender neutral doesn't mean that gender is being removed. In the event they add a non-binary gender into cas, I can only imagine that it will be optional (like the custom gender settings we have right now).
Honestly, I don't see how they'd do it, but I'd love to see it happen.
but if they change the popups to be gender neutral are sims will not be call he or she any more
I like my sim being a she and being called that isn't that what you want for your sims to be called what you like
having the popups to be gender neutral would just take away from everyone @greydonn
it would take away from trans sims to because then they can't be called he or she
My sim's daughter is still their daughter even if the popup saying she got an A refers to her as "they". My sims son is still their son, and their nonbinary child is still their nonbinary child.
If I refer to a stranger as "they", and they're a women, it doesn't make them not a women.
Your gender neutral child is still gender neutral even if the popup refers to them as „he“ or „she“. It works both ways…
I would just like to reply to a specific part of your post, @CAPTAIN_NXR7 , but I am unsure about how to do that in quotes so I hope you don't mind me doing it this way.
I think it would be perfectly alright to delete sims that do not align with your story. By all means, delete any nonbinary sim you wish to if they don't fit your world, and delete any other sim while you're at it. But since there's not toggles for female sims, male sims, blond sims, sims with japanese decent, or any other type of sim, why should there be a toggle for nonbinary sims?
@greydonn but there are options. I can toggle between male and female in CAS, so I assume that’s where non-binary will go as well, if it was ever to be implemented. It would be an additional button. I just don’t know how many more buttons are needed for every other gender identity.
In a previous post I stated that I wouldn’t fancy all pronouns to turn into they/them. I doubt it will, but that’s why we as players need all the options we can get without having anything forced onto us.
For me personally it’s not even about non-binary or skintone or hair colour. It’s about being able to customize the game based on personal preference and getting more options without having immersion breaking situations forced onto my game, if that makes sense?
***
Re: quoting a specific part of a sentence:
copy paste the part that you want to quote,
select it,
click and expand the button between the smiley and the lists (in the formatting menu above the text field)
choose “quote” from the drop down list. (It says quote, code, spoiler)
The quoted part should be grey. (Check preview below text field to test).
You can also do it manually by copy pasting the selected text and type
I would just like to reply to a specific part of your post, @CAPTAIN_NXR7 , but I am unsure about how to do that in quotes so I hope you don't mind me doing it this way.
I think it would be perfectly alright to delete sims that do not align with your story. By all means, delete any nonbinary sim you wish to if they don't fit your world, and delete any other sim while you're at it. But since there's not toggles for female sims, male sims, blond sims, sims with japanese decent, or any other type of sim, why should there be a toggle for nonbinary sims?
@greydonn but there are options. I can toggle between male and female in CAS, so I assume that’s where non-binary will go as well, if it was ever to be implemented. It would be an additional button. I just don’t know how many more buttons are needed for every other gender identity.
In a previous post I stated that I wouldn’t fancy all pronouns to turn into they/them. I doubt it will, but that’s why we as players need all the options we can get without having anything forced onto us.
For me personally it’s not even about non-binary or skintone or hair colour. It’s about being able to customize the game based on personal preference and getting more options without having immersion breaking situations forced onto my game, if that makes sense?
***
Re: quoting a specific part of a sentence:
copy paste the part that you want to quote,
select it,
click and expand the button between the smiley and the lists (in the formatting menu above the text field)
choose “quote” from the drop down list. (It says quote, code, spoiler)
The quoted part should be grey. (Check preview below text field to test).
You can also do it manually by copy pasting the selected text and type
[quote]
before the sentence and
[/quote]
after the sentence.
👍🏼
Alright, yeah, I've completely misunderstood! I thought people were talking toggles as in how you toggle out of fame, or dust, things that you turn off/on in the settings/option menu. I don't see the Male/Female buttons in CAS as toggles, I guess. Personally, I think the best way to do it would be a gender neutral option in CAS, and having gender neutral they pronouns in popups for them.
Instead of a toggle, maybe treat it like real life and if you don't like someone for some reason like race or gender, don't interact with that person/Sim.
But it's not real life.
If I want to delete every SIM toddler in the game because I don't like playing with them I have that option.
If I want to delete every dog in the game because I don't like dogs, I have that option.
If I want to populate my world with aliens and have no humans at all, I have that choice.
If they force gender neutrality into my game, I want the choice to turn it off.
But you do have the choice. You can delete them, like you said with toddlers. To my knowledge, there's no toggle anywhere in the game that removes toddlers, or dogs for that matter, so why would there be a toggle to remove this?
Another thing (in edit: this isn't targeted to you btw just a general statement because of some posts I've read on the thread). They aren't going to remove gender. Just because they change the pronouns in popups to be gender neutral doesn't mean that gender is being removed. In the event they add a non-binary gender into cas, I can only imagine that it will be optional (like the custom gender settings we have right now).
Honestly, I don't see how they'd do it, but I'd love to see it happen.
but if they change the popups to be gender neutral are sims will not be call he or she any more
I like my sim being a she and being called that isn't that what you want for your sims to be called what you like
having the popups to be gender neutral would just take away from everyone @greydonn
it would take away from trans sims to because then they can't be called he or she
My sim's daughter is still their daughter even if the popup saying she got an A refers to her as "they". My sims son is still their son, and their nonbinary child is still their nonbinary child.
If I refer to a stranger as "they", and they're a women, it doesn't make them not a women.
Your gender neutral child is still gender neutral even if the popup refers to them as „he“ or „she“. It works both ways…
It's a little more complicated then that, though, but okay...If you really want to know why I'd suggest googling the importance of gender neutral pronouns, or looking it up on youtube, because I can't really explain it as well as some others can. Anyway happy simming.
You’re reaching and you know you are. I hate these topics because you cannot argue against them without appearing like the bad guy.
No - I am describing how these requests come across. If you can't make a case against something without sounding like a bigot, think very, very hard about why.
Nothing announced said that Singular They is being imposed on any Sims. They are talking about the difficulty of expanding the options. They aren't even saying they are adding it - all they say is "this is something we care about doing right, but localization across the many languages we release in makes it very, very difficult."
That's actually saying "we don't expect to be able to add this soon, but we want you to know we are aware of the desire for it."
But this thread, and the people in it, are clutching pearls [i}ALREADY[/i] begging to turn it off, exclude it, etc. It's not even happening and there is this horrible, reactionary backlash because Gender. And it's ugly. And I see who is arguing for it.
It was ugly when you asked NOT to have free Pride themed gear in sponsorship with the It Gets Better Project. It was ugly when you objected to head coverings and modest dress. It's ugly now. It's not a stretch. It's how some people are. And yes, it's your game, but it's our world and I have to live in it. You're making that harder.
I'm worried about how it would come across in text like if you were saying they the group but also had to
talk about what the gender neutral sim was doing in the group but the sim is also called they
surly they wouldn't call the sim it would they
Dost thou employ singular "you", to refer to an individual? If so, the care one takes is similar. Allow context to inform thee of which is called for or meant, or rephrase if concerned that thy meaning is unclear. With practice, thou wilt find that singular "they" (which is older in recorded usage) is no more confusing that using singular "you" instead of "thou, thee, thy, thine," which is the grammatically singular construction. I bet thou dost so already every day without a thought.
Until it's about acknowledging that some people are different in a way thou would rather ignore.
It's because these views can conflict with each other. In order for the sims4 to represent non-binary people it can't define sims by gender. The way other games have done that is to get rid of genders, they call them body type instead and they also limit dialogue that could imply the gender of the person.
I'm not afraid to speak my mind and be labeled the bad guy because I don't want Maxis to get rid of genders in the sims for the sake of representation. Like Maxis said, if they are gonna do it, they have to do it right, and a toggle is probably the best option. If they just add a third option in CAS and call it a day, then a lot of people are probably gonna feel that they did not do it right.
A third option in CAS would be ideal though? You would have the choice of whether to use it or not.
Only any text changes would need a toggle.
I think the townies that get generated need an overhaul anyway. If I make characters from Twilight to play, then the townies that appear can be very jarring!
Gender isn't about biology or sexuality, so why would we need a third image. Isn't it about the way you choose to dress and style your hair, whether you wear make-up, what interests your have and how you feel about yourself, that sort of thing? Maybe the answer is just to be able to remove all CAS item filters that separate engendered items as a default? Sorry if I have offended everyone with my ignorance.
EA takes the time and money to cater to gender neutral activists but not to actual players. Cuz it makes them look like they care about people's rights when they've fired people just to keep from giving out bonuses.
Sims are gender neutral enough as it is. How is this meant to enhance our gameplay?
Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
Gender isn't about biology or sexuality, so why would we need a third image. Isn't it about the way you choose to dress and style your hair, whether you wear make-up, what interests your have and how you feel about yourself, that sort of thing? Maybe the answer is just to be able to remove all CAS item filters that separate engendered items as a default? Sorry if I have offended everyone with my ignorance.
Sure I'm just as ignorant as you are as I stated in my first post in this thread. I'm still non the wiser.
I wonder, since Maxis is looking into this, what do people with different gender identities believe would be the best solution?
If you identify as non-binary, how do you think this should be implemented in game? What do youthink is the best way to move forward?
I understand that this thread only mentions "non-binary", but somehow I don't feel that merely looking at implementing nonbinary options is the solution. Again, what about all the other identities? Or does it not matter how these are implemented because the game offers enough options to work with already? I have no idea. I'm a hetero sexual caveman banging rocks against his head.
I think it's an interesting conversation to have though, but as a gender identity dummy I'm completely at loss as to how any of this will work in game?
And to those who's feelings are hurt: Rather than being offended by folks (like myself) who have absolutely no problem with inclusion but feel that everything should be optional in game (without getting every single bit of meaningful gameplay nerfed) perhaps share solutions, give ideas, how does it work, what needs to be done by Maxis to make this happen? I'm interested!
Gender isn't about biology or sexuality, so why would we need a third image. Isn't it about the way you choose to dress and style your hair, whether you wear make-up, what interests your have and how you feel about yourself, that sort of thing? Maybe the answer is just to be able to remove all CAS item filters that separate engendered items as a default? Sorry if I have offended everyone with my ignorance.
Sure I'm just as ignorant as you are as I stated in my first post in this thread. I'm still non the wiser.
I wonder, since Maxis is looking into this, what do people with different gender identities believe would be the best solution?
If you identify as non-binary, how do you think this should be implemented in game? What do youthink is the best way to move forward?
I understand that this thread only mentions "non-binary", but somehow I don't feel that merely looking at implementing nonbinary options is the solution. Again, what about all the other identities? Or does it not matter how these are implemented because the game offers enough options to work with already? I have no idea. I'm a hetero sexual caveman banging rocks against his head.
I think it's an interesting conversation to have though, but as a gender identity dummy I'm completely at loss as to how any of this will work in game?
And to those who's feelings are hurt: Rather than being offended by folks (like myself) who have absolutely no problem with inclusion but feel that everything should be optional in game (without getting every single bit of meaningful gameplay nerfed) perhaps share solutions, give ideas, how does it work, what needs to be done by Maxis to make this happen? I'm interested!
I agree, I think this is a very interesting subject. I look forward to becoming better educated. Maybe it will ease some worries about what this might mean for the game.
Sure I'm just as ignorant as you are as I stated in my first post in this thread. I'm still non the wiser.
I wonder, since Maxis is looking into this, what do people with different gender identities believe would be the best solution?
If you identify as non-binary, how do you think this should be implemented in game? What do youthink is the best way to move forward?
I understand that this thread only mentions "non-binary", but somehow I don't feel that merely looking at implementing nonbinary options is the solution. Again, what about all the other identities? Or does it not matter how these are implemented because the game offers enough options to work with already? I have no idea. I'm a hetero sexual caveman banging rocks against his head.
I think it's an interesting conversation to have though, but as a gender identity dummy I'm completely at loss as to how any of this will work in game?
And to those who's feelings are hurt: Rather than being offended by folks (like myself) who have absolutely no problem with inclusion but feel that everything should be optional in game (without getting every single bit of meaningful gameplay nerfed) perhaps share solutions, give ideas, how does it work, what needs to be done by Maxis to make this happen? I'm interested!
Agreed it would help to hear from those identifying as non binary/gender neutral as to how they would like it to be added to the game.
Good solution could be to generate townies with gender determined on default percentage, where percentage is high for male/female and low for non binary, like in the real world. Same way as there are more heterosexual premade families and less homosexual premade families. If player wants to create save with males only, females only, or non binary only, there is MCCC for that.
Seems to me the most elegant way to do this would be allowing sims to choose their own pronouns. I was really surprised when I started playing Sims 4 that they had thought of so many different specific custom gender options but hadn't provided an option for they/them pronouns.
Male/female frame could be put on a slider like the sliders we already have for body size and muscle development. That would be a pretty basic modeling operation in Blender using shapekey animation. Might cause some issues with clothing clipping depending on where you are in the slider, I guess.
Or the frame type could be like eyes and chins in CAS. There could be one basic frame instead of two, with a couple of presets pictured, perhaps "male" and "female", but the player can then edit shoulder breadth, pelvic width etc by clicking on those areas as we can already for eyes and chins.
And then, as with everything else about the townies, some players will want to live in a world that mixes their own creations with random weirdness, and other players will want to live in a world populated by carefully styled mannequins. Those players already know how to use cas.fulleditmode to change whatever they want about their townies.
I just really hope if they do add more pronoun options they'll do it properly and make them optional so we have choice. I worry that they'll take the lazy route and just nerf all gendered text and replace it all with "they" as it's easier, like when they nerfed occults instead of giving players the choice.
I just really hope if they do add more pronoun options they'll do it properly and make them optional so we have choice. I worry that they'll take the lazy route and just nerf all gendered text and replace it all with "they" as it's easier, like when they nerfed occults instead of giving players the choice.
I really hope they don’t take the easy route.
I also miss Vlad invading my Sims homes, when I first got Vampires it was practically every night. Now it’s hardly ever. 😩😩😩.
Comments
I’ll quote again:
What if they didn’t suit a particular story? Hear me out:
- If I want to “turn off” all the natural blondes and pale skins in Selvadorada because I think that world feels more authentic with only a couple of locals, so what? Bye bye Nancy & Co. I’ve done it before and I’ll do it all over again.
- If I want Mt. Komorebi to only have hetero sexual Japanese female inhabitants who eat from hot pots and nothing else, again, so what? If that means manually deleting all Sims except females with Japanese genetics so be it.
- If I need an all white gay neighborhood because my story needs an all white gay neighborhood I’ll delete everything in there that’s not white and not gay. My game, my story, my choice.
Sorry for hurting anybody’s feelings for even mentioning it. If folks want to call me a bigot because I choose to delete a certain group of Sims in my game when it makes sense in my game, in my story, sure, that’s their choice. I just want options is all. Of course we’re not getting toggles for turning off or deleting Sims with specific genetics. Thank goodness for testing cheats enabled on. And mods.In that case I’m a huge wall who has no problem with inclusivity but simply needs options in game. Nobody has to feel unsafe around a wall. Walls just kinda stand there being a wall. If somebody doesn’t like the wall, they should climb and get over it.
Knowingly hurt people? Of course. That’s because I’m Mister Evil Mind Reader.
I suppose I’m potentially hurting people by simply participating in discussions on this forum. Somebody’s gonna get hurt by someone else’s opinion. If they let it hurt them, of course.
Here, I apologize for all the times I insulted folks with my opinions. And I apologize in advance, too. It probably won’t be the last time this will happen. I’m psychic that way.
Now, Maxis, how about more options, less nerfing and more gameplay? Thank you. 😎
so it shouldn't matter to you if there are gender neutral pop ups because your gender neutral sims is still gender neutral no matter
what there called @greydonn
I think it would be perfectly alright to delete sims that do not align with your story. By all means, delete any nonbinary sim you wish to if they don't fit your world, and delete any other sim while you're at it. But since there's not toggles for female sims, male sims, blond sims, sims with japanese decent, or any other type of sim, why should there be a toggle for nonbinary sims?
Maybe? I feel like you're really cherry picking my post there, maybe I'm misunderstanding though.
Gendered popups only work for male sims and female sims. Gender neutral popups work for everyone, because they're neutral.
no they don't not if you want your sim to be called he or she @greydonn only Gender neutral want to be called they other people don't
want to be called that and they don't want there sims called that
I have no problem being refered to as they, I'm not gender neutral, and I also have no problems and would even prefer my sims to have gender neutral pronouns in popups as well.
well most people don't like being called a they its cool if your cool with it and its also okay if you want sims to be that way but
I sure don't and thats okay to maybe someday you will get an option in game to make it the way you want @greydonn
I sure do hope we get that option.
@greydonn but there are options. I can toggle between male and female in CAS, so I assume that’s where non-binary will go as well, if it was ever to be implemented. It would be an additional button. I just don’t know how many more buttons are needed for every other gender identity.
In a previous post I stated that I wouldn’t fancy all pronouns to turn into they/them. I doubt it will, but that’s why we as players need all the options we can get without having anything forced onto us.
For me personally it’s not even about non-binary or skintone or hair colour. It’s about being able to customize the game based on personal preference and getting more options without having immersion breaking situations forced onto my game, if that makes sense?
Re: quoting a specific part of a sentence:
You can also do it manually by copy pasting the selected text and type before the sentence and after the sentence.
👍🏼
Alright, yeah, I've completely misunderstood! I thought people were talking toggles as in how you toggle out of fame, or dust, things that you turn off/on in the settings/option menu. I don't see the Male/Female buttons in CAS as toggles, I guess. Personally, I think the best way to do it would be a gender neutral option in CAS, and having gender neutral they pronouns in popups for them.
And thanks for the quoting help!
It's a little more complicated then that, though, but okay...If you really want to know why I'd suggest googling the importance of gender neutral pronouns, or looking it up on youtube, because I can't really explain it as well as some others can. Anyway happy simming.
No - I am describing how these requests come across. If you can't make a case against something without sounding like a bigot, think very, very hard about why.
Nothing announced said that Singular They is being imposed on any Sims. They are talking about the difficulty of expanding the options. They aren't even saying they are adding it - all they say is "this is something we care about doing right, but localization across the many languages we release in makes it very, very difficult."
That's actually saying "we don't expect to be able to add this soon, but we want you to know we are aware of the desire for it."
But this thread, and the people in it, are clutching pearls [i}ALREADY[/i] begging to turn it off, exclude it, etc. It's not even happening and there is this horrible, reactionary backlash because Gender. And it's ugly. And I see who is arguing for it.
It was ugly when you asked NOT to have free Pride themed gear in sponsorship with the It Gets Better Project. It was ugly when you objected to head coverings and modest dress. It's ugly now. It's not a stretch. It's how some people are. And yes, it's your game, but it's our world and I have to live in it. You're making that harder.
Dost thou employ singular "you", to refer to an individual? If so, the care one takes is similar. Allow context to inform thee of which is called for or meant, or rephrase if concerned that thy meaning is unclear. With practice, thou wilt find that singular "they" (which is older in recorded usage) is no more confusing that using singular "you" instead of "thou, thee, thy, thine," which is the grammatically singular construction. I bet thou dost so already every day without a thought.
Until it's about acknowledging that some people are different in a way thou would rather ignore.
A third option in CAS would be ideal though? You would have the choice of whether to use it or not.
Only any text changes would need a toggle.
I think the townies that get generated need an overhaul anyway. If I make characters from Twilight to play, then the townies that appear can be very jarring!
Gender isn't about biology or sexuality, so why would we need a third image. Isn't it about the way you choose to dress and style your hair, whether you wear make-up, what interests your have and how you feel about yourself, that sort of thing? Maybe the answer is just to be able to remove all CAS item filters that separate engendered items as a default? Sorry if I have offended everyone with my ignorance.
Sims are gender neutral enough as it is. How is this meant to enhance our gameplay?
Sure I'm just as ignorant as you are as I stated in my first post in this thread. I'm still non the wiser.
I wonder, since Maxis is looking into this, what do people with different gender identities believe would be the best solution?
If you identify as non-binary, how do you think this should be implemented in game? What do you think is the best way to move forward?
I understand that this thread only mentions "non-binary", but somehow I don't feel that merely looking at implementing nonbinary options is the solution. Again, what about all the other identities? Or does it not matter how these are implemented because the game offers enough options to work with already? I have no idea. I'm a hetero sexual caveman banging rocks against his head.
I think it's an interesting conversation to have though, but as a gender identity dummy I'm completely at loss as to how any of this will work in game?
And to those who's feelings are hurt: Rather than being offended by folks (like myself) who have absolutely no problem with inclusion but feel that everything should be optional in game (without getting every single bit of meaningful gameplay nerfed) perhaps share solutions, give ideas, how does it work, what needs to be done by Maxis to make this happen? I'm interested!
I agree, I think this is a very interesting subject. I look forward to becoming better educated. Maybe it will ease some worries about what this might mean for the game.
Agreed it would help to hear from those identifying as non binary/gender neutral as to how they would like it to be added to the game.
Male/female frame could be put on a slider like the sliders we already have for body size and muscle development. That would be a pretty basic modeling operation in Blender using shapekey animation. Might cause some issues with clothing clipping depending on where you are in the slider, I guess.
Or the frame type could be like eyes and chins in CAS. There could be one basic frame instead of two, with a couple of presets pictured, perhaps "male" and "female", but the player can then edit shoulder breadth, pelvic width etc by clicking on those areas as we can already for eyes and chins.
And then, as with everything else about the townies, some players will want to live in a world that mixes their own creations with random weirdness, and other players will want to live in a world populated by carefully styled mannequins. Those players already know how to use cas.fulleditmode to change whatever they want about their townies.
I really hope they don’t take the easy route.
I also miss Vlad invading my Sims homes, when I first got Vampires it was practically every night. Now it’s hardly ever. 😩😩😩.