I mean I'm bisexual, and you know what would make me feel included?
Beards and body hair.
I only ever make female Sims because those are the only ones who ever get content.
I can't make men.
I can't use the gender options, because CAS parts always look terrible if you put them on the opposite frame.
Oh wow, there's a same-sex couple in a trailer? Big freakin' whoop. That's not content. That's advertising.
They're making too big a deal out of it. It was cool and thoughtful how sims in the first game didn't give a rat's behind about gender and just loved (and fought) each other freely. It felt natural, nothing about it seemed forced. These days there's a whole parade going on about how inclusive they are, but imo, it's a step back.
It used to be normal, sims can be gay and people can be too. The way it should be. You don't need to TELL EVERYONE ABOUT IT. It shouldn't have to be some kind of special thing. It just needs to be normal, and they already had that.
The irony of it all is that with all the LGBTQ+ updates, the game isn't just letting you be gay anymore. It's telling you how to be gay. With pride flags and shirts.
Exactly this. It's exactly like some books I read with lgbtq characters. It kinda disturbed me because it felt like I was reading a "gay" book with a bit of story that had to constantly announce how gay/different/special they were. Just to make sure I never forgot it.
But what I actually was hoping for when I read them was a "story" book with gay characters that shows their everyday "normal" life. Their hopes and dreams, aspirations and life struggles just like normal people have.
I feel like that's the best way to be accepted and normalized is just to go about it well... normally🙆♀️
And I agree that the older sims did that well. No one had to make a spectacle about it.
But I guess you can say that about everything in 2021😆😆😆
I understand that and those books bother me too. But my problem is that it is currently impossible to make characters that go by they/them pronouns. Having the option is not "making a spectacle about it."
Let's hope they don't make a spectacle out of it. But this should be a choice for the player in CAS. It's just as important for those who did trans still be called he or she if that is their preference. Or if the biological gender players still want to be called he or she. But I fear Maxis will make a big hoopla about it all (when they finish it) and have a big announcement and pat themselves on the back. It's almost distasteful to keep using the community as a trumpet for Maxis. Ka-ching.
Again I said option. Plus I've already given up on getting gender-neutral pronouns in TS4. Sadly at this point it's not going to happen. All I want is having the base game options of male/females/other in TS5. And I'm at least hopeful for that.
(They could never acknowledge the option exists so far as I care, as long as it is an option)
I mean I'm bisexual, and you know what would make me feel included?
Beards and body hair.
I only ever make female Sims because those are the only ones who ever get content.
I can't make men.
I can't use the gender options, because CAS parts always look terrible if you put them on the opposite frame.
Oh wow, there's a same-sex couple in a trailer? Big freakin' whoop. That's not content. That's advertising.
It does feel like there is too much focus on things like that in their advertising sometimes. Playing with same-sex couples is nothing new... We have been doing that for years.
@Cinebar I absolutely get what you're saying. The focus on being able to make yourself is a lot. There are too many people and too many differences. It may not even be possible for the devs to reach that target where EVERYONE is able to make themselves.
The problem lies with the direction they've taken. The universe is no longer a 50ies American sitcom with aliens and cowplants. It's now: real people across the whole world. The scope has gotten too big. You can't have the whole world in a single game. Not even if that game runs for a hundred years. They're still going to miss something.
That said, at the very least the things they do include shouldn't be insulting. I'm glad things like the cauliflower hair are finally getting fixed.
Yes, the hair was horrible. But lately it seems we can't get past one article and or update without some new announcement about representation. Do you remember The Sims ? We just played and never thought about stuff like we have to think about now. We were never asked in zillion threads, how many gays, or trans or other races we played. It was oh, heck, my Sim is on fire! lol, how do I put that out! That's game play.
We never looked to see or count if there was a trans or black Sim in a trailer. It was just omg, it's the Sims! look at that crazy Sim, what are they doing? omg, they farted! Now, it's all about are you represented in The Sims? How does that representation make you feel? But if we are going to stay on this road then the game is failing to represent any one other than the things they brag about.
Why do people love the older games? Because there is no such requirements to meet those expectations. We could always create gay Sims, we could always play many diverse nations of peoples. We were not required by other players to state whether our game had a diverse population or not...we were the masters of our own Sims destinies and no one ran around saying how diverse they were and trying to prove it with pictures. It was just always omg my Sim is a pain, and or my Sim is hilarious and or my Sim is driving me crazy, and or my Sim is not smart and or my Sim just did this or that. That is why people play and love the older games, because representation was not the focus.
100 million percent this.
I’m in quite a few sims groups. Most of the Sims 2+3 groups discuss game play and new things they are discovering each day and share funny pictures.
In many sims 4 groups I’m in, they have dedicated threads of “Share your black sims here” “Share your trans sims here” Very little game play. Discussions are mostly around why multiplayer would be amazing and when they are going to add pronouns or disabilities next. Its very representation centred. And that’s not a bad thing, I just don’t think representation should be the focus of this game. It should play a part but that shouldn’t be the selling point.
I agree with the poster who said it’s advertising. Lazy advertising when they advertise a lesbian couple and don’t even make the effort to actually make them in a relationship. Players downloading the two girls will find the sims mean nothing to each other. It’s like EA went down a tick sheet when creating the new art work and just included it for the the sake of it to make themselves look good.
A former community manager has repeatedly said the games target audience is teenage girls “who don’t like bullying”, who aspire to buy Moschino products (not a joke) and basically have rich parents.
Link to the teenage girl comments.I expect Drake has deleted the teenage girls and Moschino tweets long ago.
The newest CM has also said the game is a safe space for learning and growing. The game is very much about representation with game play way at the bottom of the pile.
Ok, I'm halfway through so I'll have to edit, but I need to get this out before my brain resets:
The overwhelming inclusion of pride items, especially those associated with the American LGBTQ+ community, ruins the immersion of the game taking place in Sim Nation, a fictional country DESPITE being very similar to the United States.
Disclaimer going forward: I am not a perfect historian, and I am willing to learn. Please do not get angry if I say something inaccurate.
The inclusion of so much Pride merchandise gives me the impression that Sim Nation experienced discrimination based on sexual orientation at one point, since (if I'm not mistaken), that's where the LGBTQ+ pride movement has arisen from - overcoming discrimination. And it makes me feel a bit conflicted since I am fully subscribed to the idea that my sims ARE NOT American, but instead experienced a suitably quirky and slightly utopic history. It's a little immersion-breaking, but I am fine with them being included since they likely do the opposite for some players out there. I just hope that Maxis and the game changers (the most vocal of whom imo are American and British/Aussie/NZanders) realize that the Sims don't live in the same country or even world that we do.
Otherwise, I kind of wished that we (as a community) and Maxis came together and actually planned a few large updates to overhaul representation: one update that included all necessary representative changes. I agree that the constant spoon-feeding and back-patting of these updates is just a teeny bit virtue signal-esque.
And we still have no rep for disabilities or skin conditions.
I was hesitant to respond because I was not sure if the @Cinebar meant in the original post what I thought he did but this seems to be case.
And if I am understanding the original post correctly, then I wholeheartedly agree.
The issue here really isn't about "this group or that group being represented" or even "one group being represented more than another" but rather that the inclusion is being highlighted at the expense of fixing existing issues and adding more game play to the game. And just as important, that a lot of highlighting comes off as nothing but shallow virtue signaling given other factors that are (or at least should be) very relevant in terms of the game.
To be blunt about: Is it really that "inclusive" if that inclusiveness only applies to the CAS and Buy and Build and not to the gameplay.
I've seen people complaining about various game and stuff packs even though some people like them. And with all due respect, people who didn't like the packs should not invalidate people who did or seek to do so. THAT is just as much a variable in "inclusion" as anything in CAS or Buy & Build when you talk about inclusion. And by the way, for all that talk about inclusiveness, what about people in "groups" that cannot be accurately made in the game due to all the adult Sims being the same height, Young Adult Sims being the same height, etc. For example, I can't create the near 7ft tall girl I went to college that was a volleyball player and a biology major (I think.) with back in the late accurately. [SARCASM] You know because everybody is the same height in the world. Right, folks? [/SARCASM]
I think it's better and less stressful to realize that The Sims 4 is not the same game we fell in love with anymore. Not with its thousand DLC's, not in this culture, not with this generation, and definitely not in this economy. There are a lot of factors but simply put, it's not marketed toward us anymore. It's for a different demographic. Which is why we're not enjoying it much. But who knows? Maybe when all the dust has settled, maybe the Sims team and the new player base will find ways to make it fun for both them and the nostalgia players.
I can't help but wonder just how much the "quest for inclusion" has become obsession that has kept the devs from fixing things in the game that would make that "inclusion" more meaningful. Not much nostalgia here though I am an older player. It is just that for a while now, the Sims team has been using the slogan "Play with Life"...
Well okay... then INCLUDE MORE GAMEPLAY STUFF FOR US TO PLAY WITH. And even if that gameplay doesn't 100% agree with 100% of everyone (like the "debate" over occult sims) there will inevitably be something there for everyone which will only improve that little desire you have to be "inclusive".
Post edited by ghamrick75 on
Origin ID: ghamrick75
(I'm been redoing my gallery stuff so bear with me. FYI: I never use CC on my gallery builds. I rarely use MOO.) I am usually more pleased with my room builds than my lot builds.
“I have never met such weird yet serious and earnest people.” ― Jack Kerouac, The Dharma Bums
I guess their telemetry shows them that 50 % of the players are LGBTQ, so they better keep us entertained 😊.
How would they know? I don't recall answering any surveys what my gender preference is?
If we are talking about data that they are gathering when you play...that seems a bit unreliable when it comes to deciding if someone is LGBTQ or not.
I'm pretty sure that they have good statistics how players build couples and romantic relationships in the game.
I must say this thread makes me a little bit speechless. Put five lesbians and gays in the trailers, release three lgbt flags, improve a couple of black skintones and hairstyles, and - OMG - the game suddenly is only about inclusion instead of bug fixing and gameplay? Straight people are not represented anymore (except for the 586,643 CAS outfits for stereotypical straight American women)?? I really had thought that in 2021 such discussions were a thing of the past.
Okay but, do you guys only see the value of representation for simselves ? Do you never have diverse sims just for the fun of it ?
Are there really simmers out there, living their best Village of the Dam-ned fantasies ?
I mean, I'm happy for you, and I respect your choices, but wow.
I don't see how a couple of things here and there is overwhelmingly leaning towards one group. Skin types were one update and a much needed one. Gender neutral pronouns are a one-time thing. The LGBTQ community just gets a couple of flags on clothes here and there. None of that is special attention.
Instead of saying "Stop representing these groups so much," why don't you go down the more productive route of listing what groups you think have been left out?
Yes I think it’s better to say what groups are being left out. I don’t think the LGBT 🏳️🌈 community is saturated with stuff.
I would want more African stuff. More clothing options.
Haggle skill for shopping.
Maybe bring back the axe throwing target practice from Sims 2.
Joining a tribe, learning their ways and gaining Cultural skill?
I’d love a safari park holiday world with animals (even if they were animated). Imagine a giraffe 🦒 and elephant 🐘 grazing in the distance whilst your Sims are lazing by the pool.
The new Oasis Courtyard Kit was a great addition but more needed please!
I guess their telemetry shows them that 50 % of the players are LGBTQ, so they better keep us entertained 😊.
How would they know? I don't recall answering any surveys what my gender preference is?
If we are talking about data that they are gathering when you play...that seems a bit unreliable when it comes to deciding if someone is LGBTQ or not.
I'm pretty sure that they have good statistics how players build couples and romantic relationships in the game.
I must say this thread makes me a little bit speechless. Put five lesbians and gays in the trailers, release three lgbt flags, improve a couple of black skintones and hairstyles, and - OMG - the game suddenly is only about inclusion instead of bug fixing and gameplay? Straight people are not represented anymore (except for the 586,643 CAS outfits for stereotypical straight American women)?? I really had thought that in 2021 such discussions were a thing of the past.
Please stop equating black skin tone fixes as part of an update for LGBTQ players. Or as part of this conversation. Because it's not, it's a totally different subject.
I highlighted the community because though my thread isn't about what some think, can you point to me any other groups that have received so much attention from EA/Maxis? No. Nor can you point to me any other group or 'tribe' that has received as much promotion and attention in marketing? No. But as I said a few pages back if there was any other group I would have mentioned them in my original post, too. Because the thread is about the type of game play that has over taken this series. Which happens to supposedly be Representation. Well, then ok, but no other group gets any attention like the LGBTQ community of players because if they have I have missed it. It's not just some flag updates, it has been a constant drum beat, but as I said sorely fails to represent other types of people.
Though I really don't want this thread to turn in to a thread about this or that group Not being represented (and they are not) because it's as you said Simself gameplay has become the focus of Maxis rather than simulating life.
Many people in this thread have brought up some interesting points and I agree with them. They, perhaps, have said things much better than I have, but I knew going forward some would take what I said out of context and or misunderstand and or want me to name what groups?
If we have to ask, then I think we live in bubbles if the series is going to say how inclusive and diverse it is. As I said very early on, diversity of thought is just as important. And that leads to all sorts of other groups doesn't it?
On a lighter note, I hope the telemetry doesn't say I'm some evil, monster, who keeps real people locked up in a basement and starves them...oh, my, or they would think yes, there are a zillion just like me out here.
ETA: So, I don't spam my own thread I will just say some other things, too. Culture of other countries are great, however, there is diversity right here in your own town....if Maxis wants to claim this game is now about representation then take a look..as others have said and named a few groups of types of people who isn't in the game? Can you name me a few? That's not representation if you don't see those people in this game... and though it's about why is Simself getting so much attention and promoting when other gameplay is lacking so much, all people have to do is look around their own backyards to see this really isn't a game about representation nor Simself. So, it lacks life simulation on one front and a failure of Simself on another. I actually feel sorry for Maxis sometimes, because I know some stuff comes down from corporate and they have to dance that tune.
Post edited by Cinebar on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I guess their telemetry shows them that 50 % of the players are LGBTQ, so they better keep us entertained 😊.
How would they know? I don't recall answering any surveys what my gender preference is?
If we are talking about data that they are gathering when you play...that seems a bit unreliable when it comes to deciding if someone is LGBTQ or not.
I'm pretty sure that they have good statistics how players build couples and romantic relationships in the game.
I must say this thread makes me a little bit speechless. Put five lesbians and gays in the trailers, release three lgbt flags, improve a couple of black skintones and hairstyles, and - OMG - the game suddenly is only about inclusion instead of bug fixing and gameplay? Straight people are not represented anymore (except for the 586,643 CAS outfits for stereotypical straight American women)?? I really had thought that in 2021 such discussions were a thing of the past.
I think the worry is here that it has been more about visual representation than anything else. I think that Maxis have improved lately there though with the updates that we have seen this year.
So I guess the point of the thread is to ask why representation of LGBTQ+ lives has become a thing, when it wasn't in the previous iterations. It's because times change and it is much more widely understood how representation in media can normalise social interactions, relationships and perception of self and others. Whether EA/Maxis wants to be part of that or believe they have to be part of that, I don't really care, because we are still way behind of where we should be by now.
As for some other points that were made, I don't see how the addition of a few CAS items (shirt, leggings and bodysuit) and a flag or the activities of the Marketing team have anything to do with development of new gameplay features or the lack thereof.
Is it necessary to stay true to the original concept of the game for EA/Maxis to put focus on representation of the LGBTQ+ community? No, because back in the early 2000s LGBTQ+ representation wasn't even a consideration. The fact that it is now, is something the LGBTQ+ community has and still continues to fight for and I appreciate that one of my favourite video games is part of the progress that has been made so far.
So I guess the point of the thread is to ask why representation of LGBTQ+ lives has become a thing, when it wasn't in the previous iterations. It's because times change and it is much more widely understood how representation in media can normalise social interactions, relationships and perception of self and others. Whether EA/Maxis wants to be part of that or believe they have to be part of that, I don't really care, because we are still way behind of where we should be by now.
As for some other points that were made, I don't see how the addition of a few CAS items (shirt, leggings and bodysuit) and a flag or the activities of the Marketing team have anything to do with development of new gameplay features or the lack thereof.
Is it necessary to stay true to the original concept of the game for EA/Maxis to put focus on representation of the LGBTQ+ community? No, because back in the early 2000s LGBTQ+ representation wasn't even a consideration. The fact that it is now, is something the LGBTQ+ community has and still continues to fight for and I appreciate that one of my favourite video games is part of the progress that has been made so far.
All I see is it achieving the opposite effect. More and more people are getting annoyed and fed up. When I saw the rainbow flag or trans flag or when it was pride month 5-10 years ago I was like whatever, cool. Today I roll my eyes and just want it to be over. And it‘s not just me neither. There are statistics by GLAAD that each year young Americans aged 18-35 are increasingly getting more uncomfortable with the LGBTQ.
So perhaps we can discuss which "tribes" could need some more attention ...?
1. Religious People: I don't think an existing religion would be good in the game, but I support a fantasy religion with temple lot type, preacher career, monks, prayers an rites. This could bring great new gameplay opportunities.
2. Elders: Considering the young fanbase, a pack for elders would probably not sell well. Some exclusive "elder gameplay" would nevertheless be nice - bingo afternoons, teenagers visiting and supporting elders in the neighbourhood ...
3. Non-western cultures/peoples: EA has done this with mixed results. While I like the Japanese theme and the Asian vibes in SE and CL, the Polynesian setting in Island Living is just a beautiful stage for nothing. Packs with American or Australian native people could be interesting, but the question is what specific gameplay they could bring. Worldwide archtitecture and fashion is of course always welcome and can be added in Kits (like the really wonderful Moroccan Kit).
4. Disabled persons. I hope they will be added because many players want them. The challenge here is that they require lots of new animations for relatively little new gameplay. But videogame technology moves forward, so it may be possible soon.
So I guess the point of the thread is to ask why representation of LGBTQ+ lives has become a thing, when it wasn't in the previous iterations. It's because times change and it is much more widely understood how representation in media can normalise social interactions, relationships and perception of self and others. Whether EA/Maxis wants to be part of that or believe they have to be part of that, I don't really care, because we are still way behind of where we should be by now.
As for some other points that were made, I don't see how the addition of a few CAS items (shirt, leggings and bodysuit) and a flag or the activities of the Marketing team have anything to do with development of new gameplay features or the lack thereof.
Is it necessary to stay true to the original concept of the game for EA/Maxis to put focus on representation of the LGBTQ+ community? No, because back in the early 2000s LGBTQ+ representation wasn't even a consideration. The fact that it is now, is something the LGBTQ+ community has and still continues to fight for and I appreciate that one of my favourite video games is part of the progress that has been made so far.
All I see is it achieving the opposite effect. More and more people are getting annoyed and fed up. When I saw the rainbow flag or trans flag or when it was pride month 5-10 years ago I was like whatever, cool. Today I roll my eyes and just want it to be over. And it‘s not just me neither. There are statistics by GLAAD that each year young Americans aged 18-35 are increasingly getting more uncomfortable with the LGBTQ.
So I guess the point of the thread is to ask why representation of LGBTQ+ lives has become a thing, when it wasn't in the previous iterations. It's because times change and it is much more widely understood how representation in media can normalise social interactions, relationships and perception of self and others. Whether EA/Maxis wants to be part of that or believe they have to be part of that, I don't really care, because we are still way behind of where we should be by now.
As for some other points that were made, I don't see how the addition of a few CAS items (shirt, leggings and bodysuit) and a flag or the activities of the Marketing team have anything to do with development of new gameplay features or the lack thereof.
Is it necessary to stay true to the original concept of the game for EA/Maxis to put focus on representation of the LGBTQ+ community? No, because back in the early 2000s LGBTQ+ representation wasn't even a consideration. The fact that it is now, is something the LGBTQ+ community has and still continues to fight for and I appreciate that one of my favourite video games is part of the progress that has been made so far.
All I see is it achieving the opposite effect. More and more people are getting annoyed and fed up. When I saw the rainbow flag or trans flag or when it was pride month 5-10 years ago I was like whatever, cool. Today I roll my eyes and just want it to be over. And it‘s not just me neither. There are statistics by GLAAD that each year young Americans aged 18-35 are increasingly getting more uncomfortable with the LGBTQ.
So I guess the point of the thread is to ask why representation of LGBTQ+ lives has become a thing, when it wasn't in the previous iterations. It's because times change and it is much more widely understood how representation in media can normalise social interactions, relationships and perception of self and others. Whether EA/Maxis wants to be part of that or believe they have to be part of that, I don't really care, because we are still way behind of where we should be by now.
As for some other points that were made, I don't see how the addition of a few CAS items (shirt, leggings and bodysuit) and a flag or the activities of the Marketing team have anything to do with development of new gameplay features or the lack thereof.
Is it necessary to stay true to the original concept of the game for EA/Maxis to put focus on representation of the LGBTQ+ community? No, because back in the early 2000s LGBTQ+ representation wasn't even a consideration. The fact that it is now, is something the LGBTQ+ community has and still continues to fight for and I appreciate that one of my favourite video games is part of the progress that has been made so far.
All I see is it achieving the opposite effect. More and more people are getting annoyed and fed up. When I saw the rainbow flag or trans flag or when it was pride month 5-10 years ago I was like whatever, cool. Today I roll my eyes and just want it to be over. And it‘s not just me neither. There are statistics by GLAAD that each year young Americans aged 18-35 are increasingly getting more uncomfortable with the LGBTQ.
I think we are reading the results presented in this and the 2020 blog very differently. The way I read it, this has nothing to do with over-representation, but rather with misinformation.
"This year, the Accelerating Acceptance Study found that a majority of Americans, both LGBTQ and non-LGBTQ, believe that LGBTQ people have federal protections in areas of life in which they do not."
"Although there are no comprehensive federal protections for LGBTQ people in any of these situations, the majority of non-LGBTQ Americans believe that these discriminatory situations should be illegal."
“The findings from this year’s Accelerating Acceptance Study highlight a dangerous reality: a significant majority of Americans, even within our own community, are not aware that LGBTQ people are not federally protected from discrimination in many areas of life,” said GLAAD President & CEO Sarah Kate Ellis.
Because a large part of the population is not aware and/or has been purposely misinformed about the status of LGBTQ+ rights, they do not understand why representation is so important. But I am not trying to convince anyone of my point of view here and argue your personal reasons with feeling annoyed with LGBTQ+ representation.
And this quote is from a report on the medium television, but I think it is quite interesting in this context:
“In the midst of a destructive pandemic, a long overdue cultural reckoning with racial injustice, and a transition into a new political era for this country, representation matters more than ever as people turn to entertainment storytelling for connection and escape,” said Sarah Kate Ellis, GLAAD’s President and CEO. “This time of unprecedented change matched with increased demand represents an opportunity to break new ground with stories we have not seen before and create LGBTQ characters that do not reinforce harmful stereotypes.”
EA: „We might not have game play but we have them gAyS and tRaNs. No no no, don’t look at how the game is missing sexual orientation. Look at how we have them gAyS. GaYs without sexual orientation because the latter is offensive and triggers the always triggered Gen Z bullies. Yaaay. Did you see them gAYs and tRAnS yet? Let‘s remind you for the 16384th time.“
Congrats EA for adding gay sims… 21 years ago. Why suddenly the virtue signaling? This is such a poor attempt from distracting people that there is barely any life simulation in a life simulation game. You know a game plums when they don‘t advertise the game but half-baked, poorly implemented representation.
Exactly the sims always had representation.They just did not make a big deal of it.
So I guess the point of the thread is to ask why representation of LGBTQ+ lives has become a thing, when it wasn't in the previous iterations. It's because times change and it is much more widely understood how representation in media can normalise social interactions, relationships and perception of self and others. Whether EA/Maxis wants to be part of that or believe they have to be part of that, I don't really care, because we are still way behind of where we should be by now.
As for some other points that were made, I don't see how the addition of a few CAS items (shirt, leggings and bodysuit) and a flag or the activities of the Marketing team have anything to do with development of new gameplay features or the lack thereof.
Is it necessary to stay true to the original concept of the game for EA/Maxis to put focus on representation of the LGBTQ+ community? No, because back in the early 2000s LGBTQ+ representation wasn't even a consideration. The fact that it is now, is something the LGBTQ+ community has and still continues to fight for and I appreciate that one of my favourite video games is part of the progress that has been made so far.
All I see is it achieving the opposite effect. More and more people are getting annoyed and fed up. When I saw the rainbow flag or trans flag or when it was pride month 5-10 years ago I was like whatever, cool. Today I roll my eyes and just want it to be over. And it‘s not just me neither. There are statistics by GLAAD that each year young Americans aged 18-35 are increasingly getting more uncomfortable with the LGBTQ.
I think we are reading the results presented in this and the 2020 blog very differently. The way I read it, this has nothing to do with over-representation, but rather with misinformation.
"This year, the Accelerating Acceptance Study found that a majority of Americans, both LGBTQ and non-LGBTQ, believe that LGBTQ people have federal protections in areas of life in which they do not."
"Although there are no comprehensive federal protections for LGBTQ people in any of these situations, the majority of non-LGBTQ Americans believe that these discriminatory situations should be illegal."
“The findings from this year’s Accelerating Acceptance Study highlight a dangerous reality: a significant majority of Americans, even within our own community, are not aware that LGBTQ people are not federally protected from discrimination in many areas of life,” said GLAAD President & CEO Sarah Kate Ellis.
Because a large part of the population is not aware and/or has been purposely misinformed about the status of LGBTQ+ rights, they do not understand why representation is so important. But I am not trying to convince anyone of my point of view here and argue your personal reasons with feeling annoyed with LGBTQ+ representation.
And this quote is from a report on the medium television, but I think it is quite interesting in this context:
“In the midst of a destructive pandemic, a long overdue cultural reckoning with racial injustice, and a transition into a new political era for this country, representation matters more than ever as people turn to entertainment storytelling for connection and escape,” said Sarah Kate Ellis, GLAAD’s President and CEO. “This time of unprecedented change matched with increased demand represents an opportunity to break new ground with stories we have not seen before and create LGBTQ characters that do not reinforce harmful stereotypes.”
„Federal“ doesn‘t mean much in the USA though as each states have their own rules and most states are very pro LGBTQ. People aren‘t misinformed. We can see right through institutions trying to spread „mimimi we’re such victims“ propaganda by using manipulative language. If GLAAD thinks more mimimi, more wokeness, more bullying, more cancelling, more multi billion corporations waving flags is going to make young Americans stop getting uncomfortable with the LGBTQ… then please, go ahead. I don‘t think things are going to work out as they think though. It didn‘t work in the past few years so why do they expect a different outcome now?
Regarding the „reinforcing harmful steoreptypes“ thing. I‘m afraid this is what the LGBTQ, their allies and woke multi billion dollars corporations are doing. Just look at the latest GP trailer. There is a kid with a trans flag in the bedroom. I assume it‘s a born male child that identifies as a girl. The child wears a pink dress and the entire bedroom is decorated with pink stuff giving me the impression that trangenderism is just about upholding sexist, backwards gender norms (pink = girl, blue = boy).
* A walk by of two male sims holding hands.
* Two girls slow dancing in a nightclub.
* A transgirl walking her toddler in a stroller.
* A sim getting into a fight with his ex-boyfriend, while his current girlfriend freaks out about it.
And not just in the trailers, but in the actual game. I could care less about a bunch of rainbow assets. Show, don't tell.
I actually think this is more of an argument for why new content should be an inter-playable transition of some sort. Representation is a way for them to expand the audience and then those new players can play with any new content. I think it becomes easier for them to focus more on gameplay when they've made representation easier for more players.
In terms of old versions of the game vs. new versions, I guess I would say that we are living in a different era now. I wouldn't necessarily be happy to just play with references from the early 2000s. I'm not interested in every new trend but times are changing and players should be able to choose what to focus on. People argue about jeans now. There are now shifts between generations and there are young people who have grown up entirely with recent technology and social media.
I do think they need more of a focus on gameplay but they might be doing that with some of the more recent packs. Not everyone wants the same gameplay or the same content, that's the main thing. For my own opinion, I don't think that making LGBT+ content is a problem, it's there for those who need it.
Comments
Beards and body hair.
I only ever make female Sims because those are the only ones who ever get content.
I can't make men.
I can't use the gender options, because CAS parts always look terrible if you put them on the opposite frame.
Oh wow, there's a same-sex couple in a trailer? Big freakin' whoop. That's not content. That's advertising.
Again I said option. Plus I've already given up on getting gender-neutral pronouns in TS4. Sadly at this point it's not going to happen. All I want is having the base game options of male/females/other in TS5. And I'm at least hopeful for that.
(They could never acknowledge the option exists so far as I care, as long as it is an option)
It does feel like there is too much focus on things like that in their advertising sometimes. Playing with same-sex couples is nothing new... We have been doing that for years.
100 million percent this.
I’m in quite a few sims groups. Most of the Sims 2+3 groups discuss game play and new things they are discovering each day and share funny pictures.
In many sims 4 groups I’m in, they have dedicated threads of “Share your black sims here” “Share your trans sims here” Very little game play. Discussions are mostly around why multiplayer would be amazing and when they are going to add pronouns or disabilities next. Its very representation centred. And that’s not a bad thing, I just don’t think representation should be the focus of this game. It should play a part but that shouldn’t be the selling point.
I agree with the poster who said it’s advertising. Lazy advertising when they advertise a lesbian couple and don’t even make the effort to actually make them in a relationship. Players downloading the two girls will find the sims mean nothing to each other. It’s like EA went down a tick sheet when creating the new art work and just included it for the the sake of it to make themselves look good.
A former community manager has repeatedly said the games target audience is teenage girls “who don’t like bullying”, who aspire to buy Moschino products (not a joke) and basically have rich parents.
Link to the teenage girl comments.I expect Drake has deleted the teenage girls and Moschino tweets long ago.
https://simsvip.com/2017/09/03/pax-west-simgurudrake-talks-managing-sims-community/
The newest CM has also said the game is a safe space for learning and growing. The game is very much about representation with game play way at the bottom of the pile.
The overwhelming inclusion of pride items, especially those associated with the American LGBTQ+ community, ruins the immersion of the game taking place in Sim Nation, a fictional country DESPITE being very similar to the United States.
Disclaimer going forward: I am not a perfect historian, and I am willing to learn. Please do not get angry if I say something inaccurate.
The inclusion of so much Pride merchandise gives me the impression that Sim Nation experienced discrimination based on sexual orientation at one point, since (if I'm not mistaken), that's where the LGBTQ+ pride movement has arisen from - overcoming discrimination. And it makes me feel a bit conflicted since I am fully subscribed to the idea that my sims ARE NOT American, but instead experienced a suitably quirky and slightly utopic history. It's a little immersion-breaking, but I am fine with them being included since they likely do the opposite for some players out there. I just hope that Maxis and the game changers (the most vocal of whom imo are American and British/Aussie/NZanders) realize that the Sims don't live in the same country or even world that we do.
Otherwise, I kind of wished that we (as a community) and Maxis came together and actually planned a few large updates to overhaul representation: one update that included all necessary representative changes. I agree that the constant spoon-feeding and back-patting of these updates is just a teeny bit virtue signal-esque.
And we still have no rep for disabilities or skin conditions.
And if I am understanding the original post correctly, then I wholeheartedly agree.
The issue here really isn't about "this group or that group being represented" or even "one group being represented more than another" but rather that the inclusion is being highlighted at the expense of fixing existing issues and adding more game play to the game. And just as important, that a lot of highlighting comes off as nothing but shallow virtue signaling given other factors that are (or at least should be) very relevant in terms of the game.
To be blunt about: Is it really that "inclusive" if that inclusiveness only applies to the CAS and Buy and Build and not to the gameplay.
I've seen people complaining about various game and stuff packs even though some people like them. And with all due respect, people who didn't like the packs should not invalidate people who did or seek to do so. THAT is just as much a variable in "inclusion" as anything in CAS or Buy & Build when you talk about inclusion. And by the way, for all that talk about inclusiveness, what about people in "groups" that cannot be accurately made in the game due to all the adult Sims being the same height, Young Adult Sims being the same height, etc. For example, I can't create the near 7ft tall girl I went to college that was a volleyball player and a biology major (I think.) with back in the late accurately. [SARCASM] You know because everybody is the same height in the world. Right, folks? [/SARCASM]
And though @orenjiAi has a great point here:
I can't help but wonder just how much the "quest for inclusion" has become obsession that has kept the devs from fixing things in the game that would make that "inclusion" more meaningful. Not much nostalgia here though I am an older player. It is just that for a while now, the Sims team has been using the slogan "Play with Life"...
Well okay... then INCLUDE MORE GAMEPLAY STUFF FOR US TO PLAY WITH. And even if that gameplay doesn't 100% agree with 100% of everyone (like the "debate" over occult sims) there will inevitably be something there for everyone which will only improve that little desire you have to be "inclusive".
(I'm been redoing my gallery stuff so bear with me. FYI: I never use CC on my gallery builds. I rarely use MOO.) I am usually more pleased with my room builds than my lot builds.
“I have never met such weird yet serious and earnest people.” ― Jack Kerouac, The Dharma Bums
How would they know? I don't recall answering any surveys what my gender preference is?
If we are talking about data that they are gathering when you play...that seems a bit unreliable when it comes to deciding if someone is LGBTQ or not.
I'm pretty sure that they have good statistics how players build couples and romantic relationships in the game.
I must say this thread makes me a little bit speechless. Put five lesbians and gays in the trailers, release three lgbt flags, improve a couple of black skintones and hairstyles, and - OMG - the game suddenly is only about inclusion instead of bug fixing and gameplay? Straight people are not represented anymore (except for the 586,643 CAS outfits for stereotypical straight American women)?? I really had thought that in 2021 such discussions were a thing of the past.
Oh dear...
Now they’re going to think I’m really that guy....😬
Yes 😊.
Are there really simmers out there, living their best Village of the Dam-ned fantasies ?
I mean, I'm happy for you, and I respect your choices, but wow.
Yes I think it’s better to say what groups are being left out. I don’t think the LGBT 🏳️🌈 community is saturated with stuff.
I would want more African stuff. More clothing options.
Haggle skill for shopping.
Maybe bring back the axe throwing target practice from Sims 2.
Joining a tribe, learning their ways and gaining Cultural skill?
I’d love a safari park holiday world with animals (even if they were animated). Imagine a giraffe 🦒 and elephant 🐘 grazing in the distance whilst your Sims are lazing by the pool.
The new Oasis Courtyard Kit was a great addition but more needed please!
Please stop equating black skin tone fixes as part of an update for LGBTQ players. Or as part of this conversation. Because it's not, it's a totally different subject.
I highlighted the community because though my thread isn't about what some think, can you point to me any other groups that have received so much attention from EA/Maxis? No. Nor can you point to me any other group or 'tribe' that has received as much promotion and attention in marketing? No. But as I said a few pages back if there was any other group I would have mentioned them in my original post, too. Because the thread is about the type of game play that has over taken this series. Which happens to supposedly be Representation. Well, then ok, but no other group gets any attention like the LGBTQ community of players because if they have I have missed it. It's not just some flag updates, it has been a constant drum beat, but as I said sorely fails to represent other types of people.
Though I really don't want this thread to turn in to a thread about this or that group Not being represented (and they are not) because it's as you said Simself gameplay has become the focus of Maxis rather than simulating life.
Many people in this thread have brought up some interesting points and I agree with them. They, perhaps, have said things much better than I have, but I knew going forward some would take what I said out of context and or misunderstand and or want me to name what groups?
If we have to ask, then I think we live in bubbles if the series is going to say how inclusive and diverse it is. As I said very early on, diversity of thought is just as important. And that leads to all sorts of other groups doesn't it?
On a lighter note, I hope the telemetry doesn't say I'm some evil, monster, who keeps real people locked up in a basement and starves them...oh, my, or they would think yes, there are a zillion just like me out here.
ETA: So, I don't spam my own thread I will just say some other things, too. Culture of other countries are great, however, there is diversity right here in your own town....if Maxis wants to claim this game is now about representation then take a look..as others have said and named a few groups of types of people who isn't in the game? Can you name me a few? That's not representation if you don't see those people in this game... and though it's about why is Simself getting so much attention and promoting when other gameplay is lacking so much, all people have to do is look around their own backyards to see this really isn't a game about representation nor Simself. So, it lacks life simulation on one front and a failure of Simself on another. I actually feel sorry for Maxis sometimes, because I know some stuff comes down from corporate and they have to dance that tune.
I think the worry is here that it has been more about visual representation than anything else. I think that Maxis have improved lately there though with the updates that we have seen this year.
As for some other points that were made, I don't see how the addition of a few CAS items (shirt, leggings and bodysuit) and a flag or the activities of the Marketing team have anything to do with development of new gameplay features or the lack thereof.
Is it necessary to stay true to the original concept of the game for EA/Maxis to put focus on representation of the LGBTQ+ community? No, because back in the early 2000s LGBTQ+ representation wasn't even a consideration. The fact that it is now, is something the LGBTQ+ community has and still continues to fight for and I appreciate that one of my favourite video games is part of the progress that has been made so far.
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/956513/netz-a-porter-outfits-ready-to-wear-for-your-sims-no-cc-required
Twitter: NetzspannungTS
we all try ...
https://www.glaad.org/blog/glaad’s-2019-accelerating-acceptance-index-results-show-further-decline-lgbtq-acceptance-among
1. Religious People: I don't think an existing religion would be good in the game, but I support a fantasy religion with temple lot type, preacher career, monks, prayers an rites. This could bring great new gameplay opportunities.
2. Elders: Considering the young fanbase, a pack for elders would probably not sell well. Some exclusive "elder gameplay" would nevertheless be nice - bingo afternoons, teenagers visiting and supporting elders in the neighbourhood ...
3. Non-western cultures/peoples: EA has done this with mixed results. While I like the Japanese theme and the Asian vibes in SE and CL, the Polynesian setting in Island Living is just a beautiful stage for nothing. Packs with American or Australian native people could be interesting, but the question is what specific gameplay they could bring. Worldwide archtitecture and fashion is of course always welcome and can be added in Kits (like the really wonderful Moroccan Kit).
4. Disabled persons. I hope they will be added because many players want them. The challenge here is that they require lots of new animations for relatively little new gameplay. But videogame technology moves forward, so it may be possible soon.
And what is the conclusion? Do you think we gay people should be quiet and invisible so that young Americans don't feel "uncomfortable"?
I think we are reading the results presented in this and the 2020 blog very differently. The way I read it, this has nothing to do with over-representation, but rather with misinformation.
"This year, the Accelerating Acceptance Study found that a majority of Americans, both LGBTQ and non-LGBTQ, believe that LGBTQ people have federal protections in areas of life in which they do not."
"Although there are no comprehensive federal protections for LGBTQ people in any of these situations, the majority of non-LGBTQ Americans believe that these discriminatory situations should be illegal."
“The findings from this year’s Accelerating Acceptance Study highlight a dangerous reality: a significant majority of Americans, even within our own community, are not aware that LGBTQ people are not federally protected from discrimination in many areas of life,” said GLAAD President & CEO Sarah Kate Ellis.
Source: https://www.glaad.org/blog/glaad-2020-accelerating-acceptance-study
Because a large part of the population is not aware and/or has been purposely misinformed about the status of LGBTQ+ rights, they do not understand why representation is so important. But I am not trying to convince anyone of my point of view here and argue your personal reasons with feeling annoyed with LGBTQ+ representation.
And this quote is from a report on the medium television, but I think it is quite interesting in this context:
“In the midst of a destructive pandemic, a long overdue cultural reckoning with racial injustice, and a transition into a new political era for this country, representation matters more than ever as people turn to entertainment storytelling for connection and escape,” said Sarah Kate Ellis, GLAAD’s President and CEO. “This time of unprecedented change matched with increased demand represents an opportunity to break new ground with stories we have not seen before and create LGBTQ characters that do not reinforce harmful stereotypes.”
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/956513/netz-a-porter-outfits-ready-to-wear-for-your-sims-no-cc-required
Twitter: NetzspannungTS
we all try ...
Exactly the sims always had representation.They just did not make a big deal of it.
„Federal“ doesn‘t mean much in the USA though as each states have their own rules and most states are very pro LGBTQ. People aren‘t misinformed. We can see right through institutions trying to spread „mimimi we’re such victims“ propaganda by using manipulative language. If GLAAD thinks more mimimi, more wokeness, more bullying, more cancelling, more multi billion corporations waving flags is going to make young Americans stop getting uncomfortable with the LGBTQ… then please, go ahead. I don‘t think things are going to work out as they think though. It didn‘t work in the past few years so why do they expect a different outcome now?
Regarding the „reinforcing harmful steoreptypes“ thing. I‘m afraid this is what the LGBTQ, their allies and woke multi billion dollars corporations are doing. Just look at the latest GP trailer. There is a kid with a trans flag in the bedroom. I assume it‘s a born male child that identifies as a girl. The child wears a pink dress and the entire bedroom is decorated with pink stuff giving me the impression that trangenderism is just about upholding sexist, backwards gender norms (pink = girl, blue = boy).
* A walk by of two male sims holding hands.
* Two girls slow dancing in a nightclub.
* A transgirl walking her toddler in a stroller.
* A sim getting into a fight with his ex-boyfriend, while his current girlfriend freaks out about it.
And not just in the trailers, but in the actual game. I could care less about a bunch of rainbow assets. Show, don't tell.
In terms of old versions of the game vs. new versions, I guess I would say that we are living in a different era now. I wouldn't necessarily be happy to just play with references from the early 2000s. I'm not interested in every new trend but times are changing and players should be able to choose what to focus on. People argue about jeans now. There are now shifts between generations and there are young people who have grown up entirely with recent technology and social media.
I do think they need more of a focus on gameplay but they might be doing that with some of the more recent packs. Not everyone wants the same gameplay or the same content, that's the main thing. For my own opinion, I don't think that making LGBT+ content is a problem, it's there for those who need it.