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Offline players are not just the loud majority, we are the core
king_of_simcity7
Posts: 25,102 Member
Some of us have been here for many years. Some of us have been here over 20 years. We know what other Simmers want. I know what other Simmers want. In all my years I have never seen much support for online features aside from community level uploads/ downloads which can be shared. Anyone use Simport in TS3? I didn't and never known anyone else who has either. Who was hyped for Olympus? No one that I remember. Who remembers the collapse of the community after TS4's controversial release? Everyone.
The thing is there could be a way around to please both camps. An option for either playing online or offline. That should be no problem but it is.
Lets say a TS5 was released with both features. Traditional offline and a new online option. That is two camps. Would both be treated as equals? What if one got more content ahead of the other? Bug fixes? A new community war?
It cannot work like that. The Sims has always been offline and that is what worked the most. Do I want to go to work for the day and come back to find that someone has killed off all my Sims or messed up one of my builds? Do I want to come back to have messages from other Simmers in a language that I cannot even understand?
Do you want your teenage daughter to get messages off strangers on the internet?
Look at the launch of TS4. It was appalling. The lack of features? Reliance on patches just for base game content? A lot should have been learnt from that awful start. 'Why do the devs not listen?' was something repeated time and time again.
Well listen to this. We, the majority do not and I repeat not want the game to have a forced or dominating online feature. We want to play. offline. Look around the internet and prove to me that everyone wants to play online all of a sudden. Can you prove that? Of course you cannot as these forums are the biggest part of the community with much more loyal players than those casual players on Twitter.
Some of the longest playing Simmers have grown 20 years older than when we started. Some of us have jobs with money and some of us will be choosing weather it would be right to spend money on yet another let down.
Do not take us for granted. If TS5 has a forced online feature or where online dominates offline then watch what happens. 2014 will be a walk in the park compared to the disappointment the next time round.
The thing is there could be a way around to please both camps. An option for either playing online or offline. That should be no problem but it is.
Lets say a TS5 was released with both features. Traditional offline and a new online option. That is two camps. Would both be treated as equals? What if one got more content ahead of the other? Bug fixes? A new community war?
It cannot work like that. The Sims has always been offline and that is what worked the most. Do I want to go to work for the day and come back to find that someone has killed off all my Sims or messed up one of my builds? Do I want to come back to have messages from other Simmers in a language that I cannot even understand?
Do you want your teenage daughter to get messages off strangers on the internet?
Look at the launch of TS4. It was appalling. The lack of features? Reliance on patches just for base game content? A lot should have been learnt from that awful start. 'Why do the devs not listen?' was something repeated time and time again.
Well listen to this. We, the majority do not and I repeat not want the game to have a forced or dominating online feature. We want to play. offline. Look around the internet and prove to me that everyone wants to play online all of a sudden. Can you prove that? Of course you cannot as these forums are the biggest part of the community with much more loyal players than those casual players on Twitter.
Some of the longest playing Simmers have grown 20 years older than when we started. Some of us have jobs with money and some of us will be choosing weather it would be right to spend money on yet another let down.
Do not take us for granted. If TS5 has a forced online feature or where online dominates offline then watch what happens. 2014 will be a walk in the park compared to the disappointment the next time round.
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Comments
I did try Simport, it wasn't fun. It was a grind fest. I did try to fill all the goals since I wanted to prove to myself I wasn't against 'change'. However, it's not fun when you can't turn off the pc and go to bed because someone's Sim is scheduled to show up in the game an hour or so later, and if we turned off, saved and or whatever the game, that bumped them off their goals and they didn't get any credit for it. So, the mechanics of how all that worked was pretty bad. No save and no quit if anyone was scheduled to have a Sim come to your game. It caused lag in the game later because of all the corruption of the files.
Also, if your Sim didn't attend (game camera in tow) it wouldn't count for them. So, yes, your Sim had to attend and your in game camera had to stick around to 'watch'. Then there was all the weird requests from people I had never met, nor ever spoke to, and just a way for them to get on my wall on the old TS3 site, Literally thousands, and take over my wall and I was no longer even in control of my wall and or conversations and had no idea who these people were, what they were talking about and so I faded into oblivion there on my own wall. That is a fact. Anyone who used their wall and Simported knows what I'm talking about, those people's friends of friends of friends could also use our wall conversations for their own and they did. Fifteen times removed from the original Simmer who did the inviting and or the requesting.
Truth be told, I don't even think those who just started with this iteration want a mmorpg, and or any type of multiplayer. Some who play console versions of these games liked co op and may dream about that, but most pc players of The Sims did not like TS0 if they loved single player and control of their own destinies and Sims.
A brand new generation of players may go for it for their fifteen minutes of fame, notoriety and the money they may gain from a marketplace but that is all very fleeting and I know there will be some ill feelings and hurt ones, and fighting about who is best, who does a better job and some cancelling of marketplace items once the in fighting starts in all that. Just think about the environment of twitter coming to The Sims. And it will, that's the nature of today's society. I hate to see all that sort of ridiculousness come to the franchise. Because if they bring competition of that magnitude into this game that is the end of The Sim Community for sure. I'm sure many can be lured in, but for what, fifteen minutes of fame and then an end to a life simulator we all have loved so much. Maxis is ignoring the horror stories (true ones) that went on and how Simmers really felt about those who ruled the TS0.
ETA: Just imagine players your cc in a market place accepted or not accepted by cliques. The cliques will go around and tell people don't download this one or that one or that Simmer said something about this Simmer so don't download or give them any money for that item. Cliques just like on Twitter will rule. Maxis may not think so, but it will happen. The same type of cancel culture that goes on in social media coming to The Sims, won't that be fun.
Online play, that Simmer said something about another Simmer so no, you are friends with that Simmer so no, I can't let you play any reindeer games, because friends of your friends offended someone so no, you can't come to the party or play reindeer games. That is the future we have to look forward to.
ETA: I meant to add, don't worry multiplayer Simmers, if it is a multiplayer game, I won't be there on the site, so you won't have to worry about negative views from me there on the site. I may something here or somewhere else but I won't be in your happy threads, lol. I won't touch it with a ten foot pole, so enjoy it because the vast majority won't touch it, once we see the 'single player, off line play' we won't even bother.<because a house divided, can't stand. A mix of the two won't impress the majority, either.
I don't know why, because gamers these days seem to be a fickle bunch with little real loyalty. If a game doesn't go their way, or something better comes along, they seemingly simply just abandon the game they're playing for something they think is better, and there is no reason to think that Sims, with multiplayer included would be any different.
Alienating the personal dollhouse players for the sake of a quick buck from people who might want Sims MMO is a really bad idea. The personal, long term players are EA's bread and butter, even if they're too dumb to realise it.
I'm sure the reason why they began forcing multiplayer into all their titles that they've appropriated from better, smaller studios that they assimilated is because EA still seem to be under the misguided opinion that "single player games are dead."
They're not, it's just that companies like EA want to monetise you even more than just the cost of the game, so they force multiplayer into their games for added transactions, even if it doesn't belong there, and then scream gleefully about how SP games are dead because people are buying their games that have MP included. Of which people have no choice if they want to play the title.
Two of their big titles taken from Bioware, Dragon Age and Mass Effect began as single player games that were and still are immensely popular. One need only read the thousands of comments on Twitter or any other social media site to know that with the upcoming ME Legendary Edition release, most of the players are ecstatic over the game remaster, and don't give two hoots about multiplayer. They're story driven games, and as long as they story is good, people will buy and enjoy. The only reason I can see for this singleplayer games are dead mindset is because EA's story / game offerings are becoming lower and lower quality every time they release something; the games look pretty but many have no substance and no heart and people have no real interest in a substandard storyline.
Anyway, that's straying for the original topic, but The Sims is a little different... it's a very personal game to many players, especially the older ones that have been playing since its inception. Simply from reading comments and looking at pictures, you can tell that people want to tell their own stories, and play out their own scenario's that are personal to them. One of the sweetest but saddest things I read once many years ago, was a player who played sims, and always had huge families with lots of children, because they were unable to have children in real life, so they lived out their dream in their sims game.
No one wants a dream like that invaded by other players who would probably just spoil it, if the goings on in many other MP games these days is anything to go by.
People love to share what is going on in their games, but they want to do that by sharing their pictures and stories on places like their blogs or these forums. The majority don't seem to want their carefully crafted stories inundated by other people and I don't blame them.
I was outraged when Simport was introduced, and I've never used it. It is something that doesn't belong in a sims game. Not only was it apparently extremely buggy according to a lot of feedback, but in the beginning it allowed unwanted custom content to travel along with the Sim into other people's games. No one wants that.
I never played Sims Online because it didn't appeal to me, precisely for the reasons mentioned above, but the fact that it really didn't last long, and was an absolute apparent mess while it was active should be proof enough that The Sims isn't a game for multiplayer and its players aren't really all that interested in it being so.
However as I said in another thread, EA are too stupid to learn from past mistakes and will continue to repeat these mistakes to their own detriment, all for the sake of quick dollars.
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EA does not care and will go the direction they want to go for that lucrative microtransaction/macrotransaction route that is clearly working for them as TS4 is their definition of success. Not to mention all the other EA games that uses microtransactions/macrotransactions.
Some already know this and even the CEO have said multiple times the direction they are taking ALL of their future games. Feedback and complaining does nothing.
The only thing that matters to EA is profit...$$$.
The Sims franchise was next in line after the fall of SimCity and so many, many other games that used to be good until....
Stand a little taller
Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
What doesn't kill you makes a fighter
Footsteps even lighter”
Something tells me that EA is going to go downhill. They should listen to our feedback, us long term players would actually help make their money.
And while multiplayer is different- i don't think it should be played that way. Again my sim would be different from your sim, my builds would be different than your builds (especially if one players experience varies) also, since the game is rated teen, i don't think people would want others to be able to message each other.
EA should listen to our feedback: Sims have always been single player- and i don't think they should change that. not to mention that if i wanted to play a game like second life, i would already be playing it.
I never used Simport. never even heard of it.
i've been here for 10 years at least, and if anything long term players are what helps keep the game going.
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This may be a stupid question, please forgive me. If there was an online iteration would it still keep it's teen rating? Knowing that their players consist both adult and younger players, would this not be inviting players of all ages to connect in a way that at times may be unsuitable.
I don't have children but if I did, I would be happy for them to play the Sims game as they are, but would be deeply uncomfortable at the thought of them using an online version with strangers of all ages (especially those that may lie about their age). To be honest, as an adult I'd be just as uncomfortable to play with strangers myself.
An optional online feature, that is (somehow) age restricted may work. But I do feel that this is not what The Sims is, and to re-marked it in such an extreme way would alienate many loyal players.
I'm sorry, I don't usually share opinionated posts, or interact with "hot" topics, but this is something I'm quite passionate about. I don't complain, I don't make requests, I like the game as it is, and am happy to put up with some imperfections (not that those who do complain and request are doing anything wrong of course), but this is one thing I feel the need to voice my (hopefully respectful) opinion on.
The idea of Sims 5 being multiplayer deeply upsets me, which I guess sounds really dramatic, but when I think about it... it's not. The Sims has been a part of my entire life (literally). It's that one game that will be 100% my own world and creations and designs and stories. If The Sims 5 is multiplayer it will be like an end of an era for me. Just so... hollow. So void.
I wish EA wasn't like this
I really do fear for the future of the franchise. It's unfortunate that I only got into The Sims, specifically 4 last year and this is like, potentially a turning point that, if gone in the direction I would fear, would lose me as a player already. I already lost the ability to play Darkspore thanks to online-only DRM, I've read the horror stories of online-only games never working right in the first day like the SimCity kerfuffle, and I don't want a repeat of that experience. If they've gone that direction in the 5th entry, I'm just going back and playing the older games lol.
It's called Second Life trademark registered blah blah blah.
And, it's chock full of creeps and perverts, you want that? I sure don't.
That said you could give OpenSimulator a try, it's free and can be run on your own PC or on your home network for the family.
Warning, it does come with a pretty steep learning curve, as you have to build everything for yourself.
I use it, and work as an international entertainer on the world wide grid version OSGrid.org again free to join and use.
Just my 2 cents worth.
But TSO was a disaster for Maxis. From the mouths of their own developers who tried many times to improve it and change it's name and rebrand it and even end the subscription fee. They tried many times to pump life in to it, but couldn't see it wasn't just dead but a dead mannequin which didn't even have any life to start with.
Not much different to TS4 then and unless feedback has been taken into account then the same will happen again
I honestly think that's why ea is hellbent on trying to make the sims online again. They trying to compete with second life, not because the game is popular ( its somewhat still popular but no where close to the sims) but because the amount of money they rake in from the games content creators and marketplace. It's not even a real game, just people standing around. talking and buying crazy expensive cc just to take pictures and look at. That's why they mentioned a marketplace in that article, they want less effort and responsibility while depending on cc creators to make everything for them while still getting a slice of the pie. If it wasn't for sl marketplace, I highly doubt the game would still be up running now.
That wouldn't be a bad idea if there was a strong main game players could play who don't like games like the old TSO. But to me TS4 is a mix of many repeated game objects just renamed, retextured, revamped and sold as new in a new pack. Many of the careers in TS4 (especially those where Sims do them at home) are just a remix of things already in TS4, divided up and resold or patched in as new. Then there are the emotions that are just reused over and over...one with a different name is the same as tense etc. There really has been no innovation in TS4 since the day of it's release. Even the water animations are reserved to particular worlds. I wish people would think about what those who are unhappy with TS4 think about. Then maybe they could see that we are right, there is no innovation in TS4 past what they boasted about as multitasking (but which wound up as stop and start animations) and or beyond the original base emotional buffs. Because every thing else about this game has been a total repeat of what they had already added just renamed and reused over and over. So, with all that said, there really isn't a game (other than the old games) to play along side a newer TSO type game. Without a strong player loved game I can't see many embracing a new multiplay or co op game since TS4 has been a player failure. It may have been a money success for Maxis but not really since it's sold for peanuts month after month on sale.
This about sums up TS4...Look Kids, a new emotional buff! Tense...six months later...Look Kids! A new emotion....Uncomfortable...same as Tense!!! Enjoy! Look kids! a new career..includes having to work out and or jog! Six months later..Look Kids! a new career...tasks include working out and or jogging! Enjoy!
Looks kids! A new career..the object to use for this one is the pc...five years later...look kids a bunch of new careers...the object to use for these careers is the pc! Enjoy. Look kids a new fashion career...one year later..look kids a new off shout of the fashion career sold to you as new! Still have to use a camera...but we made it bigger!!! Not even a new skill worth writing home about..oh wait speaking of writing and painting...ten more careers that include a repeat of the same animations and tasks for writing and painting...and what is the go to emotion for all packs? Inspiration! oh wow, how much fun it is for all Sims to be inspired (even when floors are dirty) and gain inspiration from pack to pack, to pack to pack for another 25 years!
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For as long as I can remember, ignoring your VERY dedicated community never proved beneficial, you might get away with a few things, but nothing lasts forever. I am not interested in an online The Sims game, because I enjoy deciding what to do and how my world is. If I want to decide to create an entire magical world by changing every map, I CAN. This is the kind of freedom that an online game simply cannot provide, and taking this away after so long... Well, it's going to anger a lot of players.
The Sims will stop being the game we all enjoyed for so long if a forced online mode ever gets released.
By all means, I love TS, and I hope this game lives on for 20 more years and beyond, but listen to what YOUR Simmers are saying EA/Maxis. All we want is for the game to be the best it can be.
I think it depends on how they do it. Minecraft can give us an example of how it can be "online" and "offline" at the same time, *and* protect younger children. It has a 10+ rating (so even younger kids than "T for Teen" can play it.) Yet they have ways of doing online that are still safe. They use "Realms" for instance, that allows players to play with others, including restricting it to only those you know. (It's also subscription based like we've had hints that TS5 might be.) You can also have a private server where only invited people can play with you. But they also have open servers. I haven't used that version so although I've seen it offered, I don't know if they have ways of preventing "people who go after children" from having access to them. But as a parent, I would think that there would be ways of limiting your child's experience online. And Sims could work the same way.
I would hope that if we did have TS5 as an online game, it would work like Minecraft so that we could choose to play offline (as I prefer) or have multiplayer available for those who enjoy that (which I don't care for but wouldn't want to prevent for those who do like it.) I would hope that they could at least do as well as Minecraft has done.
I've never played Minecraft, but I really appreciate your explanation and it makes a lot of sense, thank you.
I'm sure if they were to go online they would do it in a very safe way.
If Maxis cannot see how the players are using the game why should they take any notice of you?
While we do play offline most of the time, we do have to occasionally login and go online. Otherwise we can't update, buy and download, or use the gallery. And as long as the checkbox to allow data collection is enabled, they will receive what they are looking for at that time. Per their own statement, what they are mostly looking at is whether you own the game, whether buying and downloading is working properly, and whether there are any small errors that can be addressed at that time. They aren't just monitoring your gameplay in general.