I have to say it's interesting listening to all the fellas dealing with not being the main intended audience for a videogame for once
anyway lots of you fellas do have good points. Funny you bring up the urinal issue. I was just wondering about that the other day while looking at the custom gender options. One of them is a toggle for "can use the toilet standing up"-- wonder why it is there if sims don't ever use the toilet standing up to begin with?
I have to say it's interesting listening to all the fellas dealing with not being the main intended audience for a videogame for once
anyway lots of you fellas do have good points. Funny you bring up the urinal issue. I was just wondering about that the other day while looking at the custom gender options. One of them is a toggle for "can use the toilet standing up"-- wonder why it is there if sims don't ever use the toilet standing up to begin with?
It's not very well made but sims can use the toilet standing up. If you tell a male sim to go use the toilet while on green they'll pee standing. It's oddly hidden for no reason, since no one sends sims to pee in the green. Male sims should only sit when bladder is on orange or red imo. Or if we had urinals they should just pee standing up if sims use them.
My issue with male sims is that we do need body hair, jeans and trousers to go past the ankles 🤣 and every jeans & trousers don't have to be like really tight, I have noticed that females get more clothes & hair, I would personally say that's where females get more attention, I do think male sims should get the same amount of clothes
I understand what you're trying to say. Simmers have brought this up with CAS given that male Sims seem to get the short end of the stick. I'm not too sure which activities to add that would appeal to male players though. I know cars are a huge request which I'd also like to see. I definitely agree that the advertising is not centered towards a male player base.
I'm also very happy with the responses on here and everyone having a discussion. I appreciate that people are asking what the poster would like to see as opposed to attacking him for wanting some gameplay that may appeal to him more.
I can think of a few things....
Skater boards and skater parks
Pool tables
Weights for weightlifting
Soccer goal (which somehow didn't come with Discover Uni even though they have soccer balls)
Cars, garages and car tuning
Handyman career
Pinball machines
Body hair in CAS
Nectar making and nectar cellars
Roughhousing
Mechanical bull
Boxing career
etc.
You've greatly peaked my interest haha Especially body hair. I was pretty disappointed that wasn't added with the anniversary update. Weights/Weightlifting is something I've also wanted for a long time! Like, why couldn't they have added in free weights with Fitness Stuff? Pool tables and proper pinball machines are also something I've been dying to see back in the game. I'd love to build a "beer-cade" that's essentially a bar with a ton of retro video game cabinets and pinball games.
EDIT: I keep saying this as well, I don't think I've ever seen a male Sim stand to use the washroom... Unless the bladder is in the red, he should be standing up. And where are the urinals?! Urinals are part of everyday life! haha
Now that you mention it, has any Sims game included urinals?
Ts2 has those- even the consoles! used to play the sims 2 for PSP and you clean a urinal for tank grunt.
I wouldn't necessarily call it girlie but I would say it's a little wimpy and juvenile.
Somewhere down the line EA decided it was a game for teen girls but then they decided it was a game of culture and after that they decided it was about being inclusive. The result of what we have today is how EA has interpreted those things. So I think the reality is that the game has had a form of identity crisis along the way, whereas previous games knew what they were trying to do.
I wouldn't mind seeing some more "masculine" content (like Werewolves!) and more variety of CAS styles for male Sims. I'd also really like some more cheeky humor that isn't all poop jokes or dad humor and a little more challenge to the social aspects of the game.
Not an a malicious way I ask. What manly tasks do you ask for? I am curious, I only have a woman's perspective, so I may not see the gaps.
I think it's hard to explain, because my answer is "look at the packs" but I realize you will see nothing wrong because everything looks fun
Knitting, doing laundry, vacuuming, ... not saying they are things women should do but I can't look at those packs and think. "Oh yes that's what I want to do, this looks fun". I almost got the laundry pack because everyone is raving about it but why would I wanna make my sims do laundry? There are butlers for that.
Also the community is rather feminine. I don't want to offend anyone with that but it something and that is not something that bothers me but I only found one YouTuber that can explain the game to me so I understand what's fun but he's a game changer so I don't fully trust his opinions entirely.
It's hard to explain without offending anyone, it's a bit a mine field to express. But I guess it's better to reverse the question. Do you feel most other games are not catered to you or women are not represented enough in the game communities? It's something I noticed in my Youtube algorithms which is pushing a lot of female YouTubers all of a sudden but they all play the sims.
I always thought the Sims was the only game that was really catered to both men and women but I don't find that in Sims 4
Hmm... Well I do not find this offensive, so do not sweat. Thank you for the reply, do see what you mean. There is a lot of traditionally house wife stuff, and I enjoy playing house wife, so I do not realize. I do realize that too much D.L.C. Is towards preteens, which seems to translate to feminine in game maker eyes. Used to code games, only shared with family, was going to publish, but I can debunk the preteen girl aim in my case. Preteens are obviously at a certain maturity, so we make games to suit that. Preteen boys seem to play the same games as people that are older, while preteen girls seem to stay in preteen games. That's why it can be feminine some times. Do you put Twitch? They do game streams, find them to have male simmers much, if you look to relate.
Edit: Forgot to answer question. don't really notice, because I play Stardew Valley, House Flipper, The Sims 2. Don't watch game players much, mainly Influenster blogs, pinterest, window shopping online. That is why I do not see, because I don't want to. I do hear that much main games are not tailored to women much, including no women characters or anything, and who am I to say that's a lie? It must feel that way to you with The Sims 4.
I understand what you're trying to say. Simmers have brought this up with CAS given that male Sims seem to get the short end of the stick. I'm not too sure which activities to add that would appeal to male players though. I know cars are a huge request which I'd also like to see. I definitely agree that the advertising is not centered towards a male player base.
I'm also very happy with the responses on here and everyone having a discussion. I appreciate that people are asking what the poster would like to see as opposed to attacking him for wanting some gameplay that may appeal to him more.
I can think of a few things....
Skater boards and skater parks
Pool tables
Weights for weightlifting
Soccer goal (which somehow didn't come with Discover Uni even though they have soccer balls)
Cars, garages and car tuning
Handyman career
Pinball machines
Body hair in CAS
Nectar making and nectar cellars
Roughhousing
Mechanical bull
Boxing career
etc.
You've greatly peaked my interest haha Especially body hair. I was pretty disappointed that wasn't added with the anniversary update. Weights/Weightlifting is something I've also wanted for a long time! Like, why couldn't they have added in free weights with Fitness Stuff? Pool tables and proper pinball machines are also something I've been dying to see back in the game. I'd love to build a "beer-cade" that's essentially a bar with a ton of retro video game cabinets and pinball games.
EDIT: I keep saying this as well, I don't think I've ever seen a male Sim stand to use the washroom... Unless the bladder is in the red, he should be standing up. And where are the urinals?! Urinals are part of everyday life! haha
Now that you mention it, has any Sims game included urinals?
Both TS1, TS2 and TS3 have urinals in the BG. TS4 is the only exception. For some strange reason TS4 is also the only game where bathroom stalls are exclusive to one EP, when they were BG before in previous games.
I'm a girl, but I agree with you. I enjoy playing men in the Sims 2 and 3 more than this game. I think we could use perhaps more risque humor, perhaps a stoic trait or something, or to tone down the animations, which are a little much for some of my guys. We could use more plain furniture, plain clothes that guys irl wear (I overruse dress shirts and t-shirt, and that one pair of long and normal fitting base game jeans) sports, cars. Most of all, in order to attract a traditonally male audience, the game needs to be less cutesy, have actual challenge, and be more chaotic in a funny way. Also, OP, if you are looking for male simmers I would suggest Call Me Kevin, Grey Still Plays, LGR (although he's not really intrested anymore), and Carl's Sim Guides.
Well it would be nice to have more for anyone but the thing is that 'idea' needs to go, men and women can enjoy the exact same thing it's a human thing, and more is always good but the game isn't over and maybe we'll get to vote more on what's in kits to speed up that delivery. As for target people in general and marketing can say one thing but realistically the target is always the same in every way....the person with money or the person that has access to the former. It's not a stereotypical fairy princess thing that would have been a target item in the 90s or something it is what you make of it. Maybe if there were normal comment floods asking for more items to spread out in either group we could guarantee items that appeal to actual wide group that is the target everywhere.
Reddestiny921 on the gallery...still not sure if I capitalized the second d..lol
All the sims err'day
ts4 doesn't strike for me as too girly but rather as too childish, it has a soft style that i understand it may not be for everybody.
i'd love for the game to also focus on their masculine playerbase, in fact i'd love if the game focused on everyone else besides teenage girls. yes, the game's main playerbase are teenage girls but that's because its who ea is marketing the game for, mostly. if they changed the perspective and tried to make it fun for a wider range of people, i think it would benefit the franchise a lot. it's said that The Sims used to have as much masculine playerbase as femenine one, everyone loved the sims! and it's no wonder. i don't know why is ea limiting their range of customers. it's great that despite ea's lame marketing plans, the game has managed to charm so many different people. it's the wonder of this franchise, it has so much potential and i really don't understand why does ea want to limit it.
many activities & content mentioned on this thread would be wonderful to have on the game.
and also more love for men on the game, they do really lack cas, not only in quantity but also in variety!
I think drag racing would be pretty dope as a “masculine activity”. Maybe hunting too or even dirt biking. But those are things that we may never see
When you think about it, it really is a slippery slope. I’m sure the team has had some good discussions amongst themselves about new features and elements to add but then the ideas get shot down when they realize teenage girls (the majority of their players) probably won’t enjoy it. And if the majority of your players don’t want to buy a pack, that’s a substantial loss of revenue. Is it worth it to lose that revenue for the hopes of getting revenue from the “other” players?
So unfortunately I understand why they don’t just go all in with certain stuff. They probably do a ton of expensive marketing research to see if teenage girls would enjoy a certain pack before going into production.
Not to mention I can already see the Twitter rage if the team comes out with packs more geared toward a more masculine audience.
"UM EXCUSE ME EA???? PIZZA ROLLS NOT GENDER ROLES!!!"
"EA is literally saying that only men can use this pack!! What about trans and cis women and non-gender conforming people????"
"Oh great a pack about men and power tools. Whats next? A pack about how great it is to be a woman who does nothing but cook and clean all day?"
When I start a new game I watch the game mass-produce female Sims as soon as my new household moves in. The game immediately starts sending adult premade Sims to my neighborhood to loiter, jog, or go fishing. Soon after that, the game starts generating female aliens, mail carriers, pizza delivery NPCs as well as an elder female gardener when there's a community garden nearby. Then it starts generating single mom families so their kids can populate playgrounds and parks.
I delete NPCs until I get what I think is an appropriate mix of genders and age groups. Last night I deleted 7 female pizza delivery NPCs before the game finally generated a male. This happens in most of my new saves so I don't think that it's a coincidence. Then I noticed that the game had generated 6 female Aliens so I deleted 5 of them. I deleted 3 more after that before the game finally generated a male Alien.
Maybe this happens in my saves because my playable Sims are almost always male but I don't think so.
Right now I'm looking at the traits of all of the premade Sims to see how Maxis has doled out traits since the base game because it seems to me that a disproportionate number of females are creative based on which ones I see ad Infinitum any place there are easels or music instruments.
PS: I'm a female gamer who has played many different types of games for a long time. TS1 and TS2 were never this bad in terms of gender disparity not just in CAS but in the whole game. It goes a little further than the disparaging remark made about hand tools.
I want to be this modern man that doesn't think all girls are hookups but what happens every time after I talk to whomever they start to flirt. I remember the sims being hard work to make 2 sims fall in love. Not in the Sims 4. I'm always like? "Who plays this? This is a teenage girl fantasy or something".
It's not about being male or female being able to do the same thing, it's about forcing both do to the same time. Like forcing a boy to play with a car when he prefers a doll.
Ooohh I agree with flirting and dating in Sims 4. It caters too much to fantasy, although I'm not sure if that fantasy is necessarily a feminine one. In the Sims 2, flirting and finding a compatible match is actually tricky to force. Obviously sims with great chemistry will melt all over one another, but actual little girl me was VERY stricken when my simself and my perfect man were gagging at the sight of one another. It's also hard in Sims 3, but that's because non-playable sims always seem to be in too bad a mood.
I agree that a lot of things typically gendered as masculine are missing from Sims 4, although I admit I never looked at it that way. Even my girly self misses being able to fix up and sell cars in a garage~
edit, read further and didn't want to double post: I only play Sims 4 in really short spurts, but I agree to an extent with the social animations. In past games, the initiator took on the more... dominant? animation and I always wished I could override that so that certain sims would always have certain animations. It was always weird seeing a super shy and earthy sims manhandle their romantic interest if they were the initiator. I'm not sure how other social interactions could be different. I also don't play 4 with packs, so I didn't realize how much stuff was still missing. It's not even a gender problem at this point.
However, from previous SimGuru statements, the direction of the team seems more focused on appeasing the statistically confirmed audience than diversifying and reaching untapped audiences.
31 Year Old bearded Man here. I don't think that Sims 4 are that Girly by itself. COMMUNITY is definitely dominated by ladies, yes. Game? Not so much. Add a couple of mods and it is honestly very serious game all out of the sudden. And yes, I do have mods in question.
I understand what you're trying to say. Simmers have brought this up with CAS given that male Sims seem to get the short end of the stick. I'm not too sure which activities to add that would appeal to male players though. I know cars are a huge request which I'd also like to see. I definitely agree that the advertising is not centered towards a male player base.
I'm also very happy with the responses on here and everyone having a discussion. I appreciate that people are asking what the poster would like to see as opposed to attacking him for wanting some gameplay that may appeal to him more.
I can think of a few things....
Skater boards and skater parks
Pool tables
Weights for weightlifting
Soccer goal (which somehow didn't come with Discover Uni even though they have soccer balls)
Cars, garages and car tuning
Handyman career
Pinball machines
Body hair in CAS
Nectar making and nectar cellars
Roughhousing
Mechanical bull
Boxing career
etc.
@Sigzy05 ^This I like these ideas because you know what's great about it? Women can enjoy these things too! So we wouldn't have to deal with that pesky "But EA doesn't want to alienate their core demographic!" comment we hear every time someone suggests that we get a few more "Masculine" activities. I'm sure these would all be welcomed by the community, at most we'll see one thread, maybe two of someone saying "LITERALLY NOBODY ASKED FOR THIS!!!!"
I think drag racing would be pretty dope as a “masculine activity”. Maybe hunting too or even dirt biking. But those are things that we may never see
When you think about it, it really is a slippery slope. I’m sure the team has had some good discussions amongst themselves about new features and elements to add but then the ideas get shot down when they realize teenage girls (the majority of their players) probably won’t enjoy it. And if the majority of your players don’t want to buy a pack, that’s a substantial loss of revenue. Is it worth it to lose that revenue for the hopes of getting revenue from the “other” players?
So unfortunately I understand why they don’t just go all in with certain stuff. They probably do a ton of expensive marketing research to see if teenage girls would enjoy a certain pack before going into production.
Not to mention I can already see the Twitter rage if the team comes out with packs more geared toward a more masculine audience.
"UM EXCUSE ME EA???? PIZZA ROLLS NOT GENDER ROLES!!!"
"EA is literally saying that only men can use this pack!! What about trans and cis women and non-gender conforming people????"
"Oh great a pack about men and power tools. Whats next? A pack about how great it is to be a woman who does nothing but cook and clean all day?"
It does not need to be content that is marketed as manly stuff. If I would see a garage pack with a woman in overall and gear on the cover I would not think "oh this is for girls". The dust kit has multiple men in the marketing but I still think it's a girl's pack. Also I know not all girls play with dolls and doll houses as a kid.
I don't know much about transgender or gender fluid people but I remember when I first saw CAS again I was like 'how old is this game? Only 2 sexes?". But I read somewhere that will be fixed
The only thing I can agree about being "too girly" (not exactly how I would phrase it, however) is the fact that CAS is extremely female oriented, as opposed to being equally attentive towards male Sims. I definitely agree EA should focus more on male clothing, hairstyles, and accessories.
Other than that, I can't say I entirely agree... what exactly is "girly" otherwise? I mean, to be fair, The Sims is basically a dollhouse simulator... it's never been the most "masculine" type of game to begin with. I mean, the Sims are pretty much dolls you dress up and play with... but that definitely doesn't mean boys and men shouldn't be able to enjoy it. I'm a guy and I've been a fan of The Sims since I was around 10 years old (I'm 26 now). Though, I'm also gay, so maybe that's a factor? I have no idea.
Either way, if we're talking about the excess amounts of CAS items geared towards female Sims VS male Sims, then I definitely would agree... but the overall game doesn't come off as "more girly" than previous games in the franchise. At least not for me.
The flirting. Definitely girly at times and they flirt with men and women whether you want them to or not. Also, not everyone plays the game as a "dollhouse" I play because I've always been fascinated by AI. And watching these tiny people live their lives is still amazing to me.
So, flirting is "girly" now? lol I honestly don't understand this point of view, but okay... also, I never said everyone plays it like a dollhouse. I said that's basically what it is, because it's true... you're basically playing with virtual dolls that you dress up and create stories for, while also decorating/building houses for them to live in. It's obviously not an actual dollhouse simulator, but can easily be considered one. It wasn't meant in an offensive way at all. All people should be able to enjoy playing with dolls. It sparks imagination and creativity, along with teaching people (especially children) about caretaking.
I think he means the *way* they flirt. I often think they look rather camp. I mean, to see a big beefy guy like Don, fluttering his hand and lifting up one leg like, well, a girl, is weird. Obviously men flirt lol
It’s just very girly when they do it in game. I actually never let my male sims do the flirting due to this reason.
Rather than “girly” I’d prefer to call some of these manners effeminate, although virtually they mean the same thing.
It’s fine if being flamboyant is a characteristic of that specific sim, but these guys shouldn’t all be treated the same way.
I always loved the introduction of walk styles, however I feel that a sim’s manner and movement should go beyond just that. Perhaps it’s asking for a lot, but it would give our sims so much more of that character and personality we’ve been hoping to see.
I play traditional, straight males so I either give them the tough walk or the swagger walk, but that’s where the expression of their manner also kinda stops, doesn’t it? The moment my “tough” dude sits on the sofa he crosses his legs. Why? That’s not the kind of guy he is...he’d take over the whole couch with his presence. Both legs miles apart.
There’s no need for it to be super exaggerated, but details like this would make such a huge difference.
The only thing I can agree about being "too girly" (not exactly how I would phrase it, however) is the fact that CAS is extremely female oriented, as opposed to being equally attentive towards male Sims. I definitely agree EA should focus more on male clothing, hairstyles, and accessories.
Other than that, I can't say I entirely agree... what exactly is "girly" otherwise? I mean, to be fair, The Sims is basically a dollhouse simulator... it's never been the most "masculine" type of game to begin with. I mean, the Sims are pretty much dolls you dress up and play with... but that definitely doesn't mean boys and men shouldn't be able to enjoy it. I'm a guy and I've been a fan of The Sims since I was around 10 years old (I'm 26 now). Though, I'm also gay, so maybe that's a factor? I have no idea.
Either way, if we're talking about the excess amounts of CAS items geared towards female Sims VS male Sims, then I definitely would agree... but the overall game doesn't come off as "more girly" than previous games in the franchise. At least not for me.
The flirting. Definitely girly at times and they flirt with men and women whether you want them to or not. Also, not everyone plays the game as a "dollhouse" I play because I've always been fascinated by AI. And watching these tiny people live their lives is still amazing to me.
So, flirting is "girly" now? lol I honestly don't understand this point of view, but okay... also, I never said everyone plays it like a dollhouse. I said that's basically what it is, because it's true... you're basically playing with virtual dolls that you dress up and create stories for, while also decorating/building houses for them to live in. It's obviously not an actual dollhouse simulator, but can easily be considered one. It wasn't meant in an offensive way at all. All people should be able to enjoy playing with dolls. It sparks imagination and creativity, along with teaching people (especially children) about caretaking.
I think he means the *way* they flirt. I often think they look rather camp. I mean, to see a big beefy guy like Don, fluttering his hand and lifting up one leg like, well, a girl, is weird. Obviously men flirt lol
It’s just very girly when they do it in game. I actually never let my male sims do the flirting due to this reason.
—T
Yep there are some flirt actions I avoid doing with male sims because theyre too feminine or come across too comical.
The Sims has currently lost its identity. Bring it back for TS5
I think drag racing would be pretty dope as a “masculine activity”. Maybe hunting too or even dirt biking. But those are things that we may never see
When you think about it, it really is a slippery slope. I’m sure the team has had some good discussions amongst themselves about new features and elements to add but then the ideas get shot down when they realize teenage girls (the majority of their players) probably won’t enjoy it. And if the majority of your players don’t want to buy a pack, that’s a substantial loss of revenue. Is it worth it to lose that revenue for the hopes of getting revenue from the “other” players?
So unfortunately I understand why they don’t just go all in with certain stuff. They probably do a ton of expensive marketing research to see if teenage girls would enjoy a certain pack before going into production.
Not to mention I can already see the Twitter rage if the team comes out with packs more geared toward a more masculine audience.
"UM EXCUSE ME EA???? PIZZA ROLLS NOT GENDER ROLES!!!"
"EA is literally saying that only men can use this pack!! What about trans and cis women and non-gender conforming people????"
"Oh great a pack about men and power tools. Whats next? A pack about how great it is to be a woman who does nothing but cook and clean all day?"
It does not need to be content that is marketed as manly stuff. If I would see a garage pack with a woman in overall and gear on the cover I would not think "oh this is for girls". The dust kit has multiple men in the marketing but I still think it's a girl's pack. Also I know not all girls play with dolls and doll houses as a kid.
I don't know much about transgender or gender fluid people but I remember when I first saw CAS again I was like 'how old is this game? Only 2 sexes?". But I read somewhere that will be fixed
There has always been only 2 sexes. Just saying. “Diversity” is what has ruined the sims 4 if I’m being honest. If we, men, were to get a pack towards us there would be a whole backlash by Twitter & this “woke”, cancel culture because apparently that wouldn’t be considered diversity unless it’s aimed towards LGBT, BLM, etc..
So if "Diversity" is what ruined the sims 4, reasonably you are of course against diversifying the game by adding new things for male sims? Would that ruin the game, since it's a form of diversity, or no?
In my opinion, it would only improve the game. I would love new things for my male sims, they could use it with how little/bad our options are.
Diversity is fine. Diversity™ is what aggravating some players.
The Sims has currently lost its identity. Bring it back for TS5
I think drag racing would be pretty dope as a “masculine activity”. Maybe hunting too or even dirt biking. But those are things that we may never see
When you think about it, it really is a slippery slope. I’m sure the team has had some good discussions amongst themselves about new features and elements to add but then the ideas get shot down when they realize teenage girls (the majority of their players) probably won’t enjoy it. And if the majority of your players don’t want to buy a pack, that’s a substantial loss of revenue. Is it worth it to lose that revenue for the hopes of getting revenue from the “other” players?
So unfortunately I understand why they don’t just go all in with certain stuff. They probably do a ton of expensive marketing research to see if teenage girls would enjoy a certain pack before going into production.
Not to mention I can already see the Twitter rage if the team comes out with packs more geared toward a more masculine audience.
"UM EXCUSE ME EA???? PIZZA ROLLS NOT GENDER ROLES!!!"
"EA is literally saying that only men can use this pack!! What about trans and cis women and non-gender conforming people????"
"Oh great a pack about men and power tools. Whats next? A pack about how great it is to be a woman who does nothing but cook and clean all day?"
It does not need to be content that is marketed as manly stuff. If I would see a garage pack with a woman in overall and gear on the cover I would not think "oh this is for girls". The dust kit has multiple men in the marketing but I still think it's a girl's pack. Also I know not all girls play with dolls and doll houses as a kid.
I don't know much about transgender or gender fluid people but I remember when I first saw CAS again I was like 'how old is this game? Only 2 sexes?". But I read somewhere that will be fixed
There has always been only 2 sexes. Just saying. “Diversity” is what has ruined the sims 4 if I’m being honest. If we, men, were to get a pack towards us there would be a whole backlash by Twitter & this “woke”, cancel culture because apparently that wouldn’t be considered diversity unless it’s aimed towards LGBT, BLM, etc..
So if "Diversity" is what ruined the sims 4, reasonably you are of course against diversifying the game by adding new things for male sims? Would that ruin the game, since it's a form of diversity, or no?
In my opinion, it would only improve the game. I would love new things for my male sims, they could use it with how little/bad our options are.
As I said in my previous comment, there would be backlash because it would not be considered diversity. This new generation apparently determines what’s okay & what’s not okay. If anything, it would most likely be considered degrading or sexist or sensitive towards LGBT stereotypes.
And yes it has ruined the franchise in many ways. Unlike its previous titles, we had so many unique things we don’t see in the sims 4. Like the old raunchy animations & quirky gameplay.
Sims 4 is all over the place without an identity because it’s too focused in trying to include all these cultures, orientations etc without trying to offend. But look how well that worked out with snowy escape.
I think drag racing would be pretty dope as a “masculine activity”. Maybe hunting too or even dirt biking. But those are things that we may never see
When you think about it, it really is a slippery slope. I’m sure the team has had some good discussions amongst themselves about new features and elements to add but then the ideas get shot down when they realize teenage girls (the majority of their players) probably won’t enjoy it. And if the majority of your players don’t want to buy a pack, that’s a substantial loss of revenue. Is it worth it to lose that revenue for the hopes of getting revenue from the “other” players?
So unfortunately I understand why they don’t just go all in with certain stuff. They probably do a ton of expensive marketing research to see if teenage girls would enjoy a certain pack before going into production.
Not to mention I can already see the Twitter rage if the team comes out with packs more geared toward a more masculine audience.
"UM EXCUSE ME EA???? PIZZA ROLLS NOT GENDER ROLES!!!"
"EA is literally saying that only men can use this pack!! What about trans and cis women and non-gender conforming people????"
"Oh great a pack about men and power tools. Whats next? A pack about how great it is to be a woman who does nothing but cook and clean all day?"
It does not need to be content that is marketed as manly stuff. If I would see a garage pack with a woman in overall and gear on the cover I would not think "oh this is for girls". The dust kit has multiple men in the marketing but I still think it's a girl's pack. Also I know not all girls play with dolls and doll houses as a kid.
I don't know much about transgender or gender fluid people but I remember when I first saw CAS again I was like 'how old is this game? Only 2 sexes?". But I read somewhere that will be fixed
There has always been only 2 sexes. Just saying. “Diversity” is what has ruined the sims 4 if I’m being honest. If we, men, were to get a pack towards us there would be a whole backlash by Twitter & this “woke”, cancel culture because apparently that wouldn’t be considered diversity unless it’s aimed towards LGBT, BLM, etc..
So if "Diversity" is what ruined the sims 4, reasonably you are of course against diversifying the game by adding new things for male sims? Would that ruin the game, since it's a form of diversity, or no?
In my opinion, it would only improve the game. I would love new things for my male sims, they could use it with how little/bad our options are.
Diversity is fine. Diversity™ is what aggravating some players.
I think drag racing would be pretty dope as a “masculine activity”. Maybe hunting too or even dirt biking. But those are things that we may never see
When you think about it, it really is a slippery slope. I’m sure the team has had some good discussions amongst themselves about new features and elements to add but then the ideas get shot down when they realize teenage girls (the majority of their players) probably won’t enjoy it. And if the majority of your players don’t want to buy a pack, that’s a substantial loss of revenue. Is it worth it to lose that revenue for the hopes of getting revenue from the “other” players?
So unfortunately I understand why they don’t just go all in with certain stuff. They probably do a ton of expensive marketing research to see if teenage girls would enjoy a certain pack before going into production.
Not to mention I can already see the Twitter rage if the team comes out with packs more geared toward a more masculine audience.
"UM EXCUSE ME EA???? PIZZA ROLLS NOT GENDER ROLES!!!"
"EA is literally saying that only men can use this pack!! What about trans and cis women and non-gender conforming people????"
"Oh great a pack about men and power tools. Whats next? A pack about how great it is to be a woman who does nothing but cook and clean all day?"
It does not need to be content that is marketed as manly stuff. If I would see a garage pack with a woman in overall and gear on the cover I would not think "oh this is for girls". The dust kit has multiple men in the marketing but I still think it's a girl's pack. Also I know not all girls play with dolls and doll houses as a kid.
I don't know much about transgender or gender fluid people but I remember when I first saw CAS again I was like 'how old is this game? Only 2 sexes?". But I read somewhere that will be fixed
There has always been only 2 sexes. Just saying. “Diversity” is what has ruined the sims 4 if I’m being honest. If we, men, were to get a pack towards us there would be a whole backlash by Twitter & this “woke”, cancel culture because apparently that wouldn’t be considered diversity unless it’s aimed towards LGBT, BLM, etc..
So if "Diversity" is what ruined the sims 4, reasonably you are of course against diversifying the game by adding new things for male sims? Would that ruin the game, since it's a form of diversity, or no?
In my opinion, it would only improve the game. I would love new things for my male sims, they could use it with how little/bad our options are.
As I said in my previous comment, there would be backlash because it would not be considered diversity. This new generation apparently determines what’s okay & what’s not okay. If anything, it would most likely be considered degrading or sexist or sensitive towards LGBT stereotypes.
And yes it has ruined the franchise in many ways. Unlike its previous titles, we had so many unique things we don’t see in the sims 4. Like the old raunchy animations & quirky gameplay.
Sims 4 is all over the place without an identity because it’s too focused in trying to include all these cultures, orientations etc without trying to offend. But look how well that worked out with snowy escape.
Previous titles were good because they were only focused on gameplay elements.
But enough of going off topic.
I don't think that's what is wrong at all. There's nothing wrong with diversity or including it. The problem is that Maxis hasn't hired enough programmers or QA and instead is overly produced with what seems to be too many middle managers and FX designers twiddling their thumbs thinking of things to add. The game is pretty, but it lacks working systems and the amount of bugs is evident that they don't have a competent team to implement the ideas they're coming up with. I think they have great ideas, poor execution. Notice how adding diversity doesn't really require actual programmers? There's a reason we get that stuff instead of working gameplay systems that add a lot of value to creating a cohesive game. None of the packs work together, can't add EP interactions to clubs, stuff like that.
I honestly don't think the game is too girlie, but I do think it lacks the mechanics of previous games and without mods, it is bland and lacks challenge. To me that doesn't translate to "girlie", just not very fun overall.
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anyway lots of you fellas do have good points. Funny you bring up the urinal issue. I was just wondering about that the other day while looking at the custom gender options. One of them is a toggle for "can use the toilet standing up"-- wonder why it is there if sims don't ever use the toilet standing up to begin with?
It's not very well made but sims can use the toilet standing up. If you tell a male sim to go use the toilet while on green they'll pee standing. It's oddly hidden for no reason, since no one sends sims to pee in the green. Male sims should only sit when bladder is on orange or red imo. Or if we had urinals they should just pee standing up if sims use them.
Ts2 has those- even the consoles! used to play the sims 2 for PSP and you clean a urinal for tank grunt.
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Somewhere down the line EA decided it was a game for teen girls but then they decided it was a game of culture and after that they decided it was about being inclusive. The result of what we have today is how EA has interpreted those things. So I think the reality is that the game has had a form of identity crisis along the way, whereas previous games knew what they were trying to do.
I wouldn't mind seeing some more "masculine" content (like Werewolves!) and more variety of CAS styles for male Sims. I'd also really like some more cheeky humor that isn't all poop jokes or dad humor and a little more challenge to the social aspects of the game.
Hmm... Well I do not find this offensive, so do not sweat. Thank you for the reply, do see what you mean. There is a lot of traditionally house wife stuff, and I enjoy playing house wife, so I do not realize. I do realize that too much D.L.C. Is towards preteens, which seems to translate to feminine in game maker eyes. Used to code games, only shared with family, was going to publish, but I can debunk the preteen girl aim in my case. Preteens are obviously at a certain maturity, so we make games to suit that. Preteen boys seem to play the same games as people that are older, while preteen girls seem to stay in preteen games. That's why it can be feminine some times. Do you put Twitch? They do game streams, find them to have male simmers much, if you look to relate.
Edit: Forgot to answer question. don't really notice, because I play Stardew Valley, House Flipper, The Sims 2. Don't watch game players much, mainly Influenster blogs, pinterest, window shopping online. That is why I do not see, because I don't want to. I do hear that much main games are not tailored to women much, including no women characters or anything, and who am I to say that's a lie? It must feel that way to you with The Sims 4.
I totally forgot about those stalls lol
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i'd love for the game to also focus on their masculine playerbase, in fact i'd love if the game focused on everyone else besides teenage girls. yes, the game's main playerbase are teenage girls but that's because its who ea is marketing the game for, mostly. if they changed the perspective and tried to make it fun for a wider range of people, i think it would benefit the franchise a lot. it's said that The Sims used to have as much masculine playerbase as femenine one, everyone loved the sims! and it's no wonder. i don't know why is ea limiting their range of customers. it's great that despite ea's lame marketing plans, the game has managed to charm so many different people. it's the wonder of this franchise, it has so much potential and i really don't understand why does ea want to limit it.
many activities & content mentioned on this thread would be wonderful to have on the game.
and also more love for men on the game, they do really lack cas, not only in quantity but also in variety!
Not to mention I can already see the Twitter rage if the team comes out with packs more geared toward a more masculine audience.
"UM EXCUSE ME EA???? PIZZA ROLLS NOT GENDER ROLES!!!"
"EA is literally saying that only men can use this pack!! What about trans and cis women and non-gender conforming people????"
"Oh great a pack about men and power tools. Whats next? A pack about how great it is to be a woman who does nothing but cook and clean all day?"
When I start a new game I watch the game mass-produce female Sims as soon as my new household moves in. The game immediately starts sending adult premade Sims to my neighborhood to loiter, jog, or go fishing. Soon after that, the game starts generating female aliens, mail carriers, pizza delivery NPCs as well as an elder female gardener when there's a community garden nearby. Then it starts generating single mom families so their kids can populate playgrounds and parks.
I delete NPCs until I get what I think is an appropriate mix of genders and age groups. Last night I deleted 7 female pizza delivery NPCs before the game finally generated a male. This happens in most of my new saves so I don't think that it's a coincidence. Then I noticed that the game had generated 6 female Aliens so I deleted 5 of them. I deleted 3 more after that before the game finally generated a male Alien.
Maybe this happens in my saves because my playable Sims are almost always male but I don't think so.
Right now I'm looking at the traits of all of the premade Sims to see how Maxis has doled out traits since the base game because it seems to me that a disproportionate number of females are creative based on which ones I see ad Infinitum any place there are easels or music instruments.
PS: I'm a female gamer who has played many different types of games for a long time. TS1 and TS2 were never this bad in terms of gender disparity not just in CAS but in the whole game. It goes a little further than the disparaging remark made about hand tools.
Ooohh I agree with flirting and dating in Sims 4. It caters too much to fantasy, although I'm not sure if that fantasy is necessarily a feminine one. In the Sims 2, flirting and finding a compatible match is actually tricky to force. Obviously sims with great chemistry will melt all over one another, but actual little girl me was VERY stricken when my simself and my perfect man were gagging at the sight of one another. It's also hard in Sims 3, but that's because non-playable sims always seem to be in too bad a mood.
I agree that a lot of things typically gendered as masculine are missing from Sims 4, although I admit I never looked at it that way. Even my girly self misses being able to fix up and sell cars in a garage~
edit, read further and didn't want to double post: I only play Sims 4 in really short spurts, but I agree to an extent with the social animations. In past games, the initiator took on the more... dominant? animation and I always wished I could override that so that certain sims would always have certain animations. It was always weird seeing a super shy and earthy sims manhandle their romantic interest if they were the initiator. I'm not sure how other social interactions could be different. I also don't play 4 with packs, so I didn't realize how much stuff was still missing. It's not even a gender problem at this point.
However, from previous SimGuru statements, the direction of the team seems more focused on appeasing the statistically confirmed audience than diversifying and reaching untapped audiences.
@Sigzy05 ^This I like these ideas because you know what's great about it? Women can enjoy these things too! So we wouldn't have to deal with that pesky "But EA doesn't want to alienate their core demographic!" comment we hear every time someone suggests that we get a few more "Masculine" activities. I'm sure these would all be welcomed by the community, at most we'll see one thread, maybe two of someone saying "LITERALLY NOBODY ASKED FOR THIS!!!!"
It does not need to be content that is marketed as manly stuff. If I would see a garage pack with a woman in overall and gear on the cover I would not think "oh this is for girls". The dust kit has multiple men in the marketing but I still think it's a girl's pack. Also I know not all girls play with dolls and doll houses as a kid.
I don't know much about transgender or gender fluid people but I remember when I first saw CAS again I was like 'how old is this game? Only 2 sexes?". But I read somewhere that will be fixed
I think he means the *way* they flirt. I often think they look rather camp. I mean, to see a big beefy guy like Don, fluttering his hand and lifting up one leg like, well, a girl, is weird. Obviously men flirt lol
It’s just very girly when they do it in game. I actually never let my male sims do the flirting due to this reason.
—T
It’s fine if being flamboyant is a characteristic of that specific sim, but these guys shouldn’t all be treated the same way.
I always loved the introduction of walk styles, however I feel that a sim’s manner and movement should go beyond just that. Perhaps it’s asking for a lot, but it would give our sims so much more of that character and personality we’ve been hoping to see.
I play traditional, straight males so I either give them the tough walk or the swagger walk, but that’s where the expression of their manner also kinda stops, doesn’t it? The moment my “tough” dude sits on the sofa he crosses his legs. Why? That’s not the kind of guy he is...he’d take over the whole couch with his presence. Both legs miles apart.
There’s no need for it to be super exaggerated, but details like this would make such a huge difference.
Yep there are some flirt actions I avoid doing with male sims because theyre too feminine or come across too comical.
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
Diversity is fine. Diversity™ is what aggravating some players.
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
As I said in my previous comment, there would be backlash because it would not be considered diversity. This new generation apparently determines what’s okay & what’s not okay. If anything, it would most likely be considered degrading or sexist or sensitive towards LGBT stereotypes.
And yes it has ruined the franchise in many ways. Unlike its previous titles, we had so many unique things we don’t see in the sims 4. Like the old raunchy animations & quirky gameplay.
Sims 4 is all over the place without an identity because it’s too focused in trying to include all these cultures, orientations etc without trying to offend. But look how well that worked out with snowy escape.
People want diversity yet when EA does they complain. When they don’t, they complain. Look at the recent article by SimsVip https://simsvip.com/2021/03/26/the-sims-its-time-to-change-the-worlds-literally/
Previous titles were good because they were only focused on gameplay elements.
But enough of going off topic.
Exactly what I mean. Thank you!
I don't think that's what is wrong at all. There's nothing wrong with diversity or including it. The problem is that Maxis hasn't hired enough programmers or QA and instead is overly produced with what seems to be too many middle managers and FX designers twiddling their thumbs thinking of things to add. The game is pretty, but it lacks working systems and the amount of bugs is evident that they don't have a competent team to implement the ideas they're coming up with. I think they have great ideas, poor execution. Notice how adding diversity doesn't really require actual programmers? There's a reason we get that stuff instead of working gameplay systems that add a lot of value to creating a cohesive game. None of the packs work together, can't add EP interactions to clubs, stuff like that.
I honestly don't think the game is too girlie, but I do think it lacks the mechanics of previous games and without mods, it is bland and lacks challenge. To me that doesn't translate to "girlie", just not very fun overall.