Ha ha ha ha ha! It cracks me up when people think toggles are going to solve anything.
They nerfed weather deaths pretty much entirely even though there was a toggle included with the pack to keep weather from affecting sims.
They nerfed aliens even though there was a toggle on the satellite dish to prevent abductions.
They nerfed vampires even though there were multiple in game toggles including garlic to prevent break-ins.
They nerfed Murphy bed deaths even though there was a toggle in the form of an upgrade to prevent those too.
They nerfed fame & reactions to celebrities even though there were toggles in game for those in the form of the celebrity disguise and the ability to turn fame off entirely. Now you’re global superstar hardly merits reactions from the common folk.
Toggles only work if people actually use them and the dollhouse crowd won’t. They prefer to simply have key pack features removed for their convenience and immersion, and anyone who specifically paid good money for those features can just go kick rocks.
Not to mention the biggest toggle of them all, the pack themselves, Vampires came in their own dedicated pack. A pack purely dedicated to occult gameplay, and the gothic lifestyle that is often associated with it. But guess what it too failed as a toggle because people who only wanted the B/B&CaS items couldn't;t restrain themselves then became drama-llamas about the "unwanted" occult gameplay in a dedicated occult pack.
Just all of my whats. -_-
Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
I bought "Get to work" because I wanted aliens. I bought "Island Living" because I wanted mermaids. I bought "Realm of Magic" because I wanted spellcasters. And I bought "vampires" because I wanted vampires. I love all these occult types and I play with all of them.
But I still want toggles to turn them on and off, or even better, settings to control where non-played ones can show up and what they can do.
The reason I want this ability is that I have almost twenty different saved games that I play. Each one has its own story, with its own character scenario and world concept. Sometimes having all the occults, all around, all the time, doesn't fit the story I am trying to play. For example, I have one story in which my alien is supposed to be the only alien on the planet, all alone, cut off from his people, trying to understand human society enough to fit in and survive. Having other aliens show up on community lots or having alien abductions happening ruins the immersion of this story concept. I have to keeping saying "okay, I'll just pretend like that didn't happen."
With vampires, if I am playing a story where the world concept is that vampires exist and people have to protect themselves from them, then putting garlic up everywhere is fine. But if I am playing a story where the world concept does not include vampires being real, I want an invisible toggle such as a setting in the game menu.
For spellcasters, in sims 3 I found the fact that NPC spellcasters could autonomously do actual spells (such as the romance spell that would make sims do romantic interactions with the very next sim they saw) really disruptive and annoying. I am glad that they do not do this in sims 4. I wouldn't mind some fake magic-looking animations from time to time, or maybe some helpful actions like using "repario" on broken objects. But I definitely don't want them lighting things on fire, making sims unfaithful to their partners, or other types of disruptive spells without my consent. And sometimes I don't want them doing visible magic at all, because in certain saves I am playing a story where only my sim is supposed to have magic powers, or where magic isn't supposed to exist.
The same thing goes for mermaids. In some stories I want them out and about and visible. And in other stories I don't.
So I do not see this issue as a "realism players" vs "occult players" argument, and I wish discussions about it wouldn't keep turning into that type of framing. Please understand that those of us who want more control over where and how occult types show up are not all just "realism" players who only bought the pack for CAS and build items. I play with all the occults a lot, and I love them. But I still want the ability to turn them off, hide them, or choose what behaviors the NPC ones can do.
I bought "Get to work" because I wanted aliens. I bought "Island Living" because I wanted mermaids. I bought "Realm of Magic" because I wanted spellcasters. And I bought "vampires" because I wanted vampires. I love all these occult types and I play with all of them.
But I still want toggles to turn them on and off, or even better, settings to control where non-played ones can show up and what they can do.
****
So I do not see this issue as a "realism players" vs "occult players" argument, and I wish discussions about it wouldn't keep turning into that type of framing. Please understand that those of us who want more control over where and how occult types show up are not all just "realism" players who only bought the pack for CAS and build items. I play with all the occults a lot, and I love them. But I still want the ability to turn them off, hide them, or choose what behaviors the NPC ones can do.
100% this. I enjoy playing with occults, but I also would like an extensive toggle system for them in the game option menu. Because while I enjoy playing with occults, I do not want them in every save, world or neighborhood.
Just to add, back when I joined this forum, there was a discussion asking for toggles for occults. Other players said the gurus had said that toggles were too difficult to implement and caused lag or bugs.
And then we get more toggles with Eco Lifestyle and Bust the Dust.
Please give us toggles and stop nerfing our occults. And bring back our vampires.
Ha ha ha ha ha! It cracks me up when people think toggles are going to solve anything.
They nerfed weather deaths pretty much entirely even though there was a toggle included with the pack to keep weather from affecting sims.
They nerfed aliens even though there was a toggle on the satellite dish to prevent abductions.
They nerfed vampires even though there were multiple in game toggles including garlic to prevent break-ins.
They nerfed Murphy bed deaths even though there was a toggle in the form of an upgrade to prevent those too.
They nerfed fame & reactions to celebrities even though there were toggles in game for those in the form of the celebrity disguise and the ability to turn fame off entirely. Now you’re global superstar hardly merits reactions from the common folk.
Toggles only work if people actually use them and the dollhouse crowd won’t. They prefer to simply have key pack features removed for their convenience and immersion, and anyone who specifically paid good money for those features can just go kick rocks.
This right here. While I'm not opposed to the idea of toggles being added, I'm also very skeptical whenever someone brings them up, because they really just seem like a waste considering so many people refuse to just use them. And what's even worse is the excuses they come up with. I wasn't actually around when vampires got nerfed, but I did a lot of reading back and I recall seeing a few people saying they didn't want to use garlic because "it made [their] house look ugly." Like you know what else can make houses look ugly? Messes the toddlers can make in Parenthood, and yet you don't see me going to the gurus asking it to be nerfed. And you know why? Because even though it's not my playstyle, I realize that not everyone plays the same way and that some people quite enjoy it. I simply avoid this from happening by not playing with households that have toddlers unless I actually want to play with toddlers and put up with it.
Something else they could have done was story line quests for occults and if you don't do the storyline they simply don't appear in the game. Many creative ways they could have handled this rather than with a sledgehammer.
I would be fine with that for packs like Island Living and Get To Work where the occults aren't the main feature, But for packs titled Vampires and Realm of Magic, the occult states and gameplay should be the norm and should be appearing by default. We shouldn't have to go out of our way to seek out the occult in an occult pack. It's the dollhouse "I only want the pack for the build items" crowd who should have to go out of their way to avoid the occult in a pack that's dedicated solely to the occult. That was the whole purpose of putting Vampires and Spellcasters into their own packs. So that players who didn't want them in their game could simply just skip out on the pack If you buy an occult pack you should expect the occults to be present and active in your game.
So I do not see this issue as a "realism players" vs "occult players" argument, and I wish discussions about it wouldn't keep turning into that type of framing. Please understand that those of us who want more control over where and how occult types show up are not all just "realism" players who only bought the pack for CAS and build items. I play with all the occults a lot, and I love them. But I still want the ability to turn them off, hide them, or choose what behaviors the NPC ones can do.
I can totally understand wanting to have more control over occults. And I realize there are others in the community who do think the way you do. But unfortunately, you seem few and far in between. I wish I could have more faith in the other part of the realism or anti-occult part of the community that they'd actually use the toggles, but I just can't. As Pamtastic pointed out so well, there were multiple times where toggles (even on the save menu) were provided and people just didn't use them. If that somehow changes and our occults will be returned to the way they were, then I'll jump on the bandwagon and support toggles. But based on past evidence, I don't think it would make much a difference. No matter how in depth they are.
So I do not see this issue as a "realism players" vs "occult players" argument, and I wish discussions about it wouldn't keep turning into that type of framing. Please understand that those of us who want more control over where and how occult types show up are not all just "realism" players who only bought the pack for CAS and build items. I play with all the occults a lot, and I love them. But I still want the ability to turn them off, hide them, or choose what behaviors the NPC ones can do.
I can totally understand wanting to have more control over occults. And I realize there are others in the community who do think the way you do. But unfortunately, you seem few and far in between. I wish I could have more faith in the other part of the realism or anti-occult part of the community that they'd actually use the toggles, but I just can't. As Pamtastic pointed out so well, there were multiple times where toggles (even on the save menu) were provided and people just didn't use them. If that somehow changes and our occults will be returned to the way they were, then I'll jump on the bandwagon and support toggles. But based on past evidence, I don't think it would make much a difference. No matter how in depth they are.
I'm also in that camp outside of "occult vs realism", and it saddens me to think that we "few" (who may be more quiet than actually few) might be considered too unimportant to matter. We could jump up and down and act like children throwing tantrums, I suppose, to get attention. But that's just not my style.
FYI: Just because you can see my signature, don't assume that I can see yours.
Because I can't; I keep all sigs turned off.
So I do not see this issue as a "realism players" vs "occult players" argument, and I wish discussions about it wouldn't keep turning into that type of framing. Please understand that those of us who want more control over where and how occult types show up are not all just "realism" players who only bought the pack for CAS and build items. I play with all the occults a lot, and I love them. But I still want the ability to turn them off, hide them, or choose what behaviors the NPC ones can do.
I can totally understand wanting to have more control over occults. And I realize there are others in the community who do think the way you do. But unfortunately, you seem few and far in between. I wish I could have more faith in the other part of the realism or anti-occult part of the community that they'd actually use the toggles, but I just can't. As Pamtastic pointed out so well, there were multiple times where toggles (even on the save menu) were provided and people just didn't use them. If that somehow changes and our occults will be returned to the way they were, then I'll jump on the bandwagon and support toggles. But based on past evidence, I don't think it would make much a difference. No matter how in depth they are.
I'm also in that camp outside of "occult vs realism", and it saddens me to think that we "few" (who may be more quiet than actually few) might be considered too unimportant to matter. We could jump up and down and act like children throwing tantrums, I suppose, to get attention. But that's just not my style.
Most Occult players arent the jump up and down tantrum types either, it's how Occults got nerfed in the first place. Because they didn't notice until the occult gameplay was quietly nerfed and conveniently left out of the patch notes so they didn't get the chance to fight for it.
In any case, it's a shame that the quieter voices of the fandom are left in the dust because they're just patiently waiting for the louder crowd to settle down so they have a chance to speak. But it always seems like the louder voices are never quiet.
Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
I have probably posted in this thread before, but I really want to emphasise my wish to disable the game generated occults. I so want to buy the Vampires Pack for the build/buy items, but I really do not want vampires, especially in my realistic save. From what I remember of TS3 the spawning of occults were over the top, and despite having found information about how TS4 limits it, it is not enough.
It would be nice if it were understood from the developers' perspective what a divider this is. I see a lot of negative posts about how the features in Vampires pack was tuned down; perhaps they could have saved it with a toggle. It could still be added.
I really would enjoy playing with werewolves, but I want to completely disable any game generated occults made there too. I would prefer most features in the game to not be so invasive and pervasive.
No, I disagree with toggles in a life simulator of this sort. Life has surprises some are very bad, some are nice, and some are just Life. The differences in this game, TS3 and TS2 are the toggles. TS2 doesn't have toggles and it remains the well loved game and TS1 doesn't have toggles of any sort, and it remains the revered grandfather of all. These toggles started in TS3 because of it's rpg influence into a life simulator and those who love rpg games have had way too much influence over the series ever since. I suppose Ron Humble and those developers had a lot to do with how the life simulator full of hardships, surprises and townie generation would perform and work out in the games. It continues today with RPG influence into how 'hard' the life simulator should or shouldn't be. Personally it gets annoying to realize most people playing today's series don't actually care about a life simulator but want some weird princess story, hybrid.
It's no longer about the gameplay, nor the building, nor the story telling, nor the machinima, nor the actual Sim. The series has become a mix of toggles, and players who wish only for a perfect euphoria and more about representation, clutter and even just a place to build a Sim, make sure they are very pretty, with a pretty life with nothing happening at all, then start over and do it again with the next.
The type of players who play TS4 have dramatically changed since TS1. Even from TS2. Everyone these days wants to even turn off if a Sim (representing a human) no longer even need to pee, or eat. As a matter of fact many who play TS4 have mods installed that limit and or 'turn off' the motives completely so don't have to fill those motives and have mods installed that totally change a game from a life simulator into some sort of toggle controlled world full of nothing but pretty Sims who never need anything, ever experience any surprises and or hardships and or delve into what might scare humans regardless of what that would be, and do this over and over with each new world, pack and or kit or whatever.
This has severely reduced the series into nothing more than a set of toggles and tasks to control any 'life' that might have went on, and reduced it to nothing more than any other game of filling tasks and yet again receiving another happy reward for doing so. Start over with the next pretty Sim and rinse and repeat in each new pack offered.
I understand why someone would want to have a toggle so they 'could keep their vampires etc.' but what Maxis has done is listen to those who buy a pack for the clutter and don't want the gameplay. The thing to do in my opinion is to sell the CAS assets and objects etc. separately for those who don't want actual gameplay and leave the Life Simulator alone.
Yes, some would say this is a money grab but it would solve a lot of this nerfing of other life states and besides when TS2's store first started Maxis was actually selling the stuff from EPs not actual new objects in the TS2 store. So, why not just offer any occult pack objects for sale separately so the players who actually want the game play can have their games and stop nerfing and toggling this series to death.
What is more amusing is the same people who want TS4 to have story progression want toggles to turn off any expansion of life states, such as a town becoming vampy etc., but want the game to proceed without their input...but balk at the game actually doing that buy generating more vamps or aliens etc., when that would be a part of story progression also in the sense the 'game' deciding how and when to generate any 'life' at all. Think on it, if there is one vampire then there would be more.... Go figure.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
No, I disagree with toggles in a life simulator of this sort. Life has surprises some are very bad, some are nice, and some are just Life. The differences in this game, TS3 and TS2 are the toggles. TS2 doesn't have toggles and it remains the well loved game and TS1 doesn't have toggles of any sort, and it remains the revered grandfather of all. These toggles started in TS3 because of it's rpg influence into a life simulator and those who love rpg games have had way too much influence over the series ever since. I suppose Ron Humble and those developers had a lot to do with how the life simulator full of hardships, surprises and townie generation would perform and work out in the games. It continues today with RPG influence into how 'hard' the life simulator should or shouldn't be. Personally it gets annoying to realize most people playing today's series don't actually care about a life simulator but want some weird princess story, hybrid.
It's no longer about the gameplay, nor the building, nor the story telling, nor the machinima, nor the actual Sim. The series has become a mix of toggles, and players who wish only for a perfect euphoria and more about representation, clutter and even just a place to build a Sim, make sure they are very pretty, with a pretty life with nothing happening at all, then start over and do it again with the next.
The type of players who play TS4 have dramatically changed since TS1. Even from TS2. Everyone these days wants to even turn off if a Sim (representing a human) no longer even need to pee, or eat. As a matter of fact many who play TS4 have mods installed that limit and or 'turn off' the motives completely so don't have to fill those motives and have mods installed that totally change a game from a life simulator into some sort of toggle controlled world full of nothing but pretty Sims who never need anything, ever experience any surprises and or hardships and or delve into what might scare humans regardless of what that would be, and do this over and over with each new world, pack and or kit or whatever.
This has severely reduced the series into nothing more than a set of toggles and tasks to control any 'life' that might have went on, and reduced it to nothing more than any other game of filling tasks and yet again receiving another happy reward for doing so. Start over with the next pretty Sim and rinse and repeat in each new pack offered.
I understand why someone would want to have a toggle so they 'could keep their vampires etc.' but what Maxis has done is listen to those who buy a pack for the clutter and don't want the gameplay. The thing to do in my opinion is to sell the CAS assets and objects etc. separately for those who don't want actual gameplay and leave the Life Simulator alone.
Yes, some would say this is a money grab but it would solve a lot of this nerfing of other life states and besides when TS2's store first started Maxis was actually selling the stuff from EPs not actual new objects in the TS2 store. So, why not just offer any occult pack objects for sale separately so the players who actually want the game play can have their games and stop nerfing and toggling this series to death.
What is more amusing is the same people who want TS4 to have story progression want toggles to turn off any expansion of life states, such as a town becoming vampy etc., but want the game to proceed without their input...but balk at the game actually doing that buy generating more vamps or aliens etc., when that would be a part of story progression also in the sense the 'game' deciding how and when to generate any 'life' at all. Think on it, if there is one vampire then there would be more.... Go figure.
Couldn't have said this better myself, 100% in agreement.
Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
So I do not see this issue as a "realism players" vs "occult players" argument, and I wish discussions about it wouldn't keep turning into that type of framing. Please understand that those of us who want more control over where and how occult types show up are not all just "realism" players who only bought the pack for CAS and build items. I play with all the occults a lot, and I love them. But I still want the ability to turn them off, hide them, or choose what behaviors the NPC ones can do.
I can totally understand wanting to have more control over occults. And I realize there are others in the community who do think the way you do. But unfortunately, you seem few and far in between. I wish I could have more faith in the other part of the realism or anti-occult part of the community that they'd actually use the toggles, but I just can't. As Pamtastic pointed out so well, there were multiple times where toggles (even on the save menu) were provided and people just didn't use them. If that somehow changes and our occults will be returned to the way they were, then I'll jump on the bandwagon and support toggles. But based on past evidence, I don't think it would make much a difference. No matter how in depth they are.
I'm also in that camp outside of "occult vs realism", and it saddens me to think that we "few" (who may be more quiet than actually few) might be considered too unimportant to matter. We could jump up and down and act like children throwing tantrums, I suppose, to get attention. But that's just not my style.
You know, that could very well be the case. That those of you in that camp are just quiet and less outspoken compared to the complainers, which is why it comes across as being that you're in the minority. It's the same thing with occult players i'm being honest. Since our group too isn't very outspoken and therefore often overlooked/ignored in favor of the purely anti-occult crowd.
It's not that you and your crowd of people aren't important (or at least, not in my eyes you aren't unimportant, and I believe your voices should be heard as well) it's just that it seems being respectful and calm doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere.
As much as I'm not the type of person to throw tantrums either, it almost seems like that's the only way to be heard. It's terrible and not right, but it does seem like that's the case.
No, I disagree with toggles in a life simulator of this sort. Life has surprises some are very bad, some are nice, and some are just Life. The differences in this game, TS3 and TS2 are the toggles. TS2 doesn't have toggles and it remains the well loved game and TS1 doesn't have toggles of any sort, and it remains the revered grandfather of all. These toggles started in TS3 because of it's rpg influence into a life simulator and those who love rpg games have had way too much influence over the series ever since. I suppose Ron Humble and those developers had a lot to do with how the life simulator full of hardships, surprises and townie generation would perform and work out in the games. It continues today with RPG influence into how 'hard' the life simulator should or shouldn't be. Personally it gets annoying to realize most people playing today's series don't actually care about a life simulator but want some weird princess story, hybrid.
It's no longer about the gameplay, nor the building, nor the story telling, nor the machinima, nor the actual Sim. The series has become a mix of toggles, and players who wish only for a perfect euphoria and more about representation, clutter and even just a place to build a Sim, make sure they are very pretty, with a pretty life with nothing happening at all, then start over and do it again with the next.
The type of players who play TS4 have dramatically changed since TS1. Even from TS2. Everyone these days wants to even turn off if a Sim (representing a human) no longer even need to pee, or eat. As a matter of fact many who play TS4 have mods installed that limit and or 'turn off' the motives completely so don't have to fill those motives and have mods installed that totally change a game from a life simulator into some sort of toggle controlled world full of nothing but pretty Sims who never need anything, ever experience any surprises and or hardships and or delve into what might scare humans regardless of what that would be, and do this over and over with each new world, pack and or kit or whatever.
This has severely reduced the series into nothing more than a set of toggles and tasks to control any 'life' that might have went on, and reduced it to nothing more than any other game of filling tasks and yet again receiving another happy reward for doing so. Start over with the next pretty Sim and rinse and repeat in each new pack offered.
I understand why someone would want to have a toggle so they 'could keep their vampires etc.' but what Maxis has done is listen to those who buy a pack for the clutter and don't want the gameplay. The thing to do in my opinion is to sell the CAS assets and objects etc. separately for those who don't want actual gameplay and leave the Life Simulator alone.
Yes, some would say this is a money grab but it would solve a lot of this nerfing of other life states and besides when TS2's store first started Maxis was actually selling the stuff from EPs not actual new objects in the TS2 store. So, why not just offer any occult pack objects for sale separately so the players who actually want the game play can have their games and stop nerfing and toggling this series to death.
What is more amusing is the same people who want TS4 to have story progression want toggles to turn off any expansion of life states, such as a town becoming vampy etc., but want the game to proceed without their input...but balk at the game actually doing that buy generating more vamps or aliens etc., when that would be a part of story progression also in the sense the 'game' deciding how and when to generate any 'life' at all. Think on it, if there is one vampire then there would be more.... Go figure.
I actually agree with you on this point. As much as a "controversial" opinion as it is. I know a lot of people are against the ideas of Kits and feel they're just "microtransactions" but I do feel what you mentioned would be a good way of utilizing them. Whether it's making an actual Kit with items of a similar style but just slightly different (so that we don't hear the whole "they're reusing the exact same items to make more money" argument) or even just include a check box to "buy build items only" or "buy CAS items only" for a cheaper price.
Of course there will be some people who criticize this move, but to me it's far better than having those who want their games entirely occult free to buy occult packs and then complain about them, resulting in them getting nerfed.
I agree that occults need toggles. I’m one of those players that plays many different save games. Some have occults and some are supposed to be more realistic. I get frustrated when people try to make this kind of discussion about occult players vs realistic players because I fit into both sides depending on which save game I want to play. It also frustrates me when people suggest not buying vampires if you don’t want vampires, because I do want vampires just not in every single game.
Comments
Not to mention the biggest toggle of them all, the pack themselves, Vampires came in their own dedicated pack. A pack purely dedicated to occult gameplay, and the gothic lifestyle that is often associated with it. But guess what it too failed as a toggle because people who only wanted the B/B&CaS items couldn't;t restrain themselves then became drama-llamas about the "unwanted" occult gameplay in a dedicated occult pack.
Just all of my whats. -_-
But I still want toggles to turn them on and off, or even better, settings to control where non-played ones can show up and what they can do.
The reason I want this ability is that I have almost twenty different saved games that I play. Each one has its own story, with its own character scenario and world concept. Sometimes having all the occults, all around, all the time, doesn't fit the story I am trying to play. For example, I have one story in which my alien is supposed to be the only alien on the planet, all alone, cut off from his people, trying to understand human society enough to fit in and survive. Having other aliens show up on community lots or having alien abductions happening ruins the immersion of this story concept. I have to keeping saying "okay, I'll just pretend like that didn't happen."
With vampires, if I am playing a story where the world concept is that vampires exist and people have to protect themselves from them, then putting garlic up everywhere is fine. But if I am playing a story where the world concept does not include vampires being real, I want an invisible toggle such as a setting in the game menu.
For spellcasters, in sims 3 I found the fact that NPC spellcasters could autonomously do actual spells (such as the romance spell that would make sims do romantic interactions with the very next sim they saw) really disruptive and annoying. I am glad that they do not do this in sims 4. I wouldn't mind some fake magic-looking animations from time to time, or maybe some helpful actions like using "repario" on broken objects. But I definitely don't want them lighting things on fire, making sims unfaithful to their partners, or other types of disruptive spells without my consent. And sometimes I don't want them doing visible magic at all, because in certain saves I am playing a story where only my sim is supposed to have magic powers, or where magic isn't supposed to exist.
The same thing goes for mermaids. In some stories I want them out and about and visible. And in other stories I don't.
So I do not see this issue as a "realism players" vs "occult players" argument, and I wish discussions about it wouldn't keep turning into that type of framing. Please understand that those of us who want more control over where and how occult types show up are not all just "realism" players who only bought the pack for CAS and build items. I play with all the occults a lot, and I love them. But I still want the ability to turn them off, hide them, or choose what behaviors the NPC ones can do.
100% this. I enjoy playing with occults, but I also would like an extensive toggle system for them in the game option menu. Because while I enjoy playing with occults, I do not want them in every save, world or neighborhood.
yes please
This right here. While I'm not opposed to the idea of toggles being added, I'm also very skeptical whenever someone brings them up, because they really just seem like a waste considering so many people refuse to just use them. And what's even worse is the excuses they come up with. I wasn't actually around when vampires got nerfed, but I did a lot of reading back and I recall seeing a few people saying they didn't want to use garlic because "it made [their] house look ugly." Like you know what else can make houses look ugly? Messes the toddlers can make in Parenthood, and yet you don't see me going to the gurus asking it to be nerfed. And you know why? Because even though it's not my playstyle, I realize that not everyone plays the same way and that some people quite enjoy it. I simply avoid this from happening by not playing with households that have toddlers unless I actually want to play with toddlers and put up with it.
I would be fine with that for packs like Island Living and Get To Work where the occults aren't the main feature, But for packs titled Vampires and Realm of Magic, the occult states and gameplay should be the norm and should be appearing by default. We shouldn't have to go out of our way to seek out the occult in an occult pack. It's the dollhouse "I only want the pack for the build items" crowd who should have to go out of their way to avoid the occult in a pack that's dedicated solely to the occult. That was the whole purpose of putting Vampires and Spellcasters into their own packs. So that players who didn't want them in their game could simply just skip out on the pack If you buy an occult pack you should expect the occults to be present and active in your game.
ETA: Had to add a few words I missed.
I can totally understand wanting to have more control over occults. And I realize there are others in the community who do think the way you do. But unfortunately, you seem few and far in between. I wish I could have more faith in the other part of the realism or anti-occult part of the community that they'd actually use the toggles, but I just can't. As Pamtastic pointed out so well, there were multiple times where toggles (even on the save menu) were provided and people just didn't use them. If that somehow changes and our occults will be returned to the way they were, then I'll jump on the bandwagon and support toggles. But based on past evidence, I don't think it would make much a difference. No matter how in depth they are.
I'm also in that camp outside of "occult vs realism", and it saddens me to think that we "few" (who may be more quiet than actually few) might be considered too unimportant to matter. We could jump up and down and act like children throwing tantrums, I suppose, to get attention. But that's just not my style.
Because I can't; I keep all sigs turned off.
Most Occult players arent the jump up and down tantrum types either, it's how Occults got nerfed in the first place. Because they didn't notice until the occult gameplay was quietly nerfed and conveniently left out of the patch notes so they didn't get the chance to fight for it.
In any case, it's a shame that the quieter voices of the fandom are left in the dust because they're just patiently waiting for the louder crowd to settle down so they have a chance to speak. But it always seems like the louder voices are never quiet.
It would be nice if it were understood from the developers' perspective what a divider this is. I see a lot of negative posts about how the features in Vampires pack was tuned down; perhaps they could have saved it with a toggle. It could still be added.
I really would enjoy playing with werewolves, but I want to completely disable any game generated occults made there too. I would prefer most features in the game to not be so invasive and pervasive.
It's no longer about the gameplay, nor the building, nor the story telling, nor the machinima, nor the actual Sim. The series has become a mix of toggles, and players who wish only for a perfect euphoria and more about representation, clutter and even just a place to build a Sim, make sure they are very pretty, with a pretty life with nothing happening at all, then start over and do it again with the next.
The type of players who play TS4 have dramatically changed since TS1. Even from TS2. Everyone these days wants to even turn off if a Sim (representing a human) no longer even need to pee, or eat. As a matter of fact many who play TS4 have mods installed that limit and or 'turn off' the motives completely so don't have to fill those motives and have mods installed that totally change a game from a life simulator into some sort of toggle controlled world full of nothing but pretty Sims who never need anything, ever experience any surprises and or hardships and or delve into what might scare humans regardless of what that would be, and do this over and over with each new world, pack and or kit or whatever.
This has severely reduced the series into nothing more than a set of toggles and tasks to control any 'life' that might have went on, and reduced it to nothing more than any other game of filling tasks and yet again receiving another happy reward for doing so. Start over with the next pretty Sim and rinse and repeat in each new pack offered.
I understand why someone would want to have a toggle so they 'could keep their vampires etc.' but what Maxis has done is listen to those who buy a pack for the clutter and don't want the gameplay. The thing to do in my opinion is to sell the CAS assets and objects etc. separately for those who don't want actual gameplay and leave the Life Simulator alone.
Yes, some would say this is a money grab but it would solve a lot of this nerfing of other life states and besides when TS2's store first started Maxis was actually selling the stuff from EPs not actual new objects in the TS2 store. So, why not just offer any occult pack objects for sale separately so the players who actually want the game play can have their games and stop nerfing and toggling this series to death.
What is more amusing is the same people who want TS4 to have story progression want toggles to turn off any expansion of life states, such as a town becoming vampy etc., but want the game to proceed without their input...but balk at the game actually doing that buy generating more vamps or aliens etc., when that would be a part of story progression also in the sense the 'game' deciding how and when to generate any 'life' at all. Think on it, if there is one vampire then there would be more.... Go figure.
Couldn't have said this better myself, 100% in agreement.
You know, that could very well be the case. That those of you in that camp are just quiet and less outspoken compared to the complainers, which is why it comes across as being that you're in the minority. It's the same thing with occult players i'm being honest. Since our group too isn't very outspoken and therefore often overlooked/ignored in favor of the purely anti-occult crowd.
It's not that you and your crowd of people aren't important (or at least, not in my eyes you aren't unimportant, and I believe your voices should be heard as well) it's just that it seems being respectful and calm doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere.
As much as I'm not the type of person to throw tantrums either, it almost seems like that's the only way to be heard. It's terrible and not right, but it does seem like that's the case.
I actually agree with you on this point. As much as a "controversial" opinion as it is. I know a lot of people are against the ideas of Kits and feel they're just "microtransactions" but I do feel what you mentioned would be a good way of utilizing them. Whether it's making an actual Kit with items of a similar style but just slightly different (so that we don't hear the whole "they're reusing the exact same items to make more money" argument) or even just include a check box to "buy build items only" or "buy CAS items only" for a cheaper price.
Of course there will be some people who criticize this move, but to me it's far better than having those who want their games entirely occult free to buy occult packs and then complain about them, resulting in them getting nerfed.