I kinda think you all are blowing this way out of proportion, and I don't even think that this was done to be "woke" or anything like that. When the text pop-ups have to reference a Sim's specific pronouns, it has to be coded to read their sex/gender so it can use the proper pronouns. When it uses something like "they/them," it doesn't have to be coded to reference anything at all, since those are universal pronouns. So from a technological standpoint, it's much faster and way easier to implement moodlets and pop-ups without that extra step of coding. Using pronouns they/them is a way of cutting corners when it comes to this sort of thing, which is totally something I could see the team doing to save some effort. I would imagine this is the reason why most stuff is using "they/them" and less of some sort of "woke" effort to scrub gender pronouns of the game.
This has always been a thing. Some popups include pronouns some don't. It's just the coders not bothering to pop that code module in. It has nothing to do with politics or your personal opinions on NB people. Wanting the option to have they/them pronouns always for some sims (As I do.) doesn't mean "getting rid of all gender identifiers even mom and dad!" No one is making your sims NB, and this forum is not the best place to discuss your political views.
TL:DR I feel like a lot of people are using this “new" thing as a way to express their unrelated views on NB people (Some of which are borderline transphobic. (Edit: I should probably remove the borderline.)) when it's really probably just lazy coding that's been going on for a while.
So far my sims are still being referred to as he/him and she/her. If EA do go down the gender-neutral pronoun route though, that's fine by me. Gender-neutral pronoun usage in Sims games has never affected my ability to be referred to as she/her in real life, and no-one is trying to take that from me. After all, they/them is inclusive of all genders. If it turns out that the gender-neutral pronoun change does happen across the board, and you happen to take issue with it, there are some options for you: You can always wait for someone to make a mod to add he/him and she/her back into the game (if not, you might be able to request someone somewhere to make a mod). Also, I believe TS3 has every Sim go by he/him and she/her in most of the text boxes, so if it's a necessity, you could always go back a generation and play TS3!
I'm not a plural. My Sim isn't a plural. They and them are plural, as in more than one! I do hope this trend doesn't infect the game, as it has society.
I'm not a plural. My Sim isn't a plural. They and them are plural, as in more than one! I do hope this trend doesn't infect the game, as it has society.
Actually, the use of they and them as singular dates back to the 1800s (I think even to the 1300s). It's commonly used. Ex: ”Are you going to call your boss?" "Yeah, I'll call them". I read a very interesting linguistics book that touched upon this subject.
From Oxford Dictionary: https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/200700#eid18519864
At this point my sim can't even enjoy a meal longer than 2 bites. 🙄They are too hungry to hear what pronoun they are being call. At this point I'm ready for ts5 so people can move on and stop nerfing/changing my game 🙄
I'm not a plural. My Sim isn't a plural. They and them are plural, as in more than one! I do hope this trend doesn't infect the game, as it has society.
Actually, the use of they and them as singular dates back to the 1800s (I think even to the 1300s). It's commonly used. Ex: ”Are you going to call your boss?" "Yeah, I'll call them". I read a very interesting linguistics book that touched upon this subject.
From Oxford Dictionary: https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/200700#eid18519864
Regardless of what anyone wants to call me what's wrong with a notice in the patch notes that they and them gender neutral personal pronouns will now be in use in the game? Why not? What's wrong with an update about it? That is the point of my thread. It doesn't matter if anyone agrees with my stance about anything. I hope he and she will not be removed and become a thing of the past in any written form. I'm making a request for Maxis to address why they started this, and why they haven't informed the customers. That's all. Changes of any sort about the game should be known to players in my opinion, no matter what it is. Even if they corrected a misspelled word (which TS2 had many) it would be nice to get notices about changes instead of surprises if they are going to write patch notes. Or feature notes. Especially if the game becomes non gender specific when there are plenty of us who want to be known as one gender or the other. I just want things to be fair across the board. Nothing wrong with that, is there? Because in order to please one you displease others, so why not make this optional in CAS or some sort of toggle because no there are still plenty of us who are not gender neutral and not angry but disappointed Maxis takes an easy way out and still is able to offend one side of things or the other side of things when maybe players had the answers all the time...the individual player should have choices, not hive mindedness.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
But we don't know for sure that anything has actually changed. I don't think EA would make a change like this without some notification. The few instances you've seen can all be attributed to coding mistakes. Why try to create a problem when there isn't one?
ETA: I'm also pretty sure EA would want recognition for such a groundbreaking feature and not try to sneak it in with no fanfare.
But we don't know for sure that anything has actually changed. I don't think EA would make a change like this without some notification. The few instances you've seen can all be attributed to coding mistakes. Why try to create a problem when there isn't one?
ETA: I'm also pretty sure EA would want recognition for such a groundbreaking feature and not try to sneak it in with no fanfare.
I hardly think any pronoun changes are a mistake. Do you really believe some examples stated here are mistakes? You know you said in another thread and I agreed with you changes in the baby object would not be cost effective for the revenue of this game. That is very true, but I also asked you but how does adding changes such as rainbow colors, and other things noted in the patch notes add to the revenue and be cost effective when the average player is just wanting better gameplay. All of this does actually cost time and money you know, even something as simple as adding colors to a painting. My thoughts would be why if not intended ( I doubt any pronoun difference is a mistake) would any of this take precedence over the things most players actually request such as better personalities (new trait improvements) etc. And not say anything but just let it pass by and hope we just accept changes without anyone having preferred actual patches that actually improve games. All this fanfare for one thing or group and not so much for everyone else. ( ?) It seems like special preferences for some and not so much (filled requests) for everyone else.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I still keep wondering , where is the proof these changes are actual changes and those few text popups, mentioned here, weren't like that originally?
Just seeing couple of those and assuming they were deliberately changed does not make it a fact.
ETA: Edited to add missing word "not"
Post edited by Ellupelluellu on
My love, my love, my fearless love, I will not say goodbye..
Sea may rise, sky may fall, My love will never die..
My heart, my heart, My drowning heart, Oh all the tears I've cried
Oh I may weep forevermore, My love will never die..
I still keep wondering , where is the proof these changes are actual changes and those few text popups, mentioned here, weren't like that originally?
Just seeing couple of those and assuming they were deliberately changed does make it a fact.
To the best of my memory the Sim wasn't noted as they or them in a text popup when I was playing TS4. Nor was the overly Asian name generator a thing before CL which I'm pretty sure iirc, a developer said he/she/they had made it so it would generate more Asian names and received many complaints since that was all it did all the time until they finally fixed the name, townie generator. This is new in the last few months or so to my knowledge as someone stated it started with the Snowy pack.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Could you provide evidence of the use of these pronouns? I haven’t seen them but would be wonderful to see what you are talking about. Maybe it’s because I use mods and the mods create more notifications than the actual game itself. Otherwise I’ve only seen the usual he/she him/her pronouns.
Hmm...I haven't noticed this in my game, but then again, I don't have all expansion packs. I would have to look again. I think it would be super great if the they/them pronouns were added in game for people to use when creating their Sims! I understand that some people seem to think that he/she are going to be removed, but I don't think that it the case. It would be kind of silly to remove he/she from the game anyway, as that would just cause confusion in terms of some of the in game text I think. Maybe they're just preparing to add in they/them pronouns to the game and are testing it out? If they are testing it out, it most likely wouldn't be something they would announce until they got the code right. Either way, I think it's great to include more pronouns so that the game can include more people, so I don't really see the issue here if that's what is happening.
I concur people should've been informed if this has happened, but the more I read this thread, the more it seems like you're jumping to conclusions. I also fail to see why this is a big issue. I'm not convinced this is some push to be woke either, it's possible that it's likely just easier to use "they/them" or avoid pronouns altogether. From just reading many moodlets from TS3, quite a few of them avoided referring to the Sim's gender. If someone wants to test if there was some phasing out of "he" or "she", simply make two Sims and have them elope. The notification that pops up when their exchanging their vows refers to gender. I'd do it myself, but my game isn't updated. And in my game, the plural pronouns are there when referring to traits. They're not when referring to marriage or holidays, as far as I've noticed, those use singular pronouns. Likely because they're intended to be personal. You can also test by having your Sim learn a new skill, those notifications also refer to "he/she".
EDIT: Also, I think pop-ups and moodlets referring to traits were always using plural pronouns. Since any Sim can have said traits.
I still keep wondering , where is the proof these changes are actual changes and those few text popups, mentioned here, weren't like that originally?
Just seeing couple of those and assuming they were deliberately changed does make it a fact.
To the best of my memory the Sim wasn't noted as they or them in a text popup when I was playing TS4.
Yes.. at 2017..
My love, my love, my fearless love, I will not say goodbye..
Sea may rise, sky may fall, My love will never die..
My heart, my heart, My drowning heart, Oh all the tears I've cried
Oh I may weep forevermore, My love will never die..
@simgirl1010 , but in that, pic, the other pop up does say Izzy as "he"
My love, my love, my fearless love, I will not say goodbye..
Sea may rise, sky may fall, My love will never die..
My heart, my heart, My drowning heart, Oh all the tears I've cried
Oh I may weep forevermore, My love will never die..
I have had pop-ups like that since Sims 4 came out. It's referencing a "Genius' getting a boost" not a certain sim. That a sim with that trait, not the actual sim. It's like saying, "Sam is an artist with the Perfectionist trait, and it gives them more a more perfect creation".
Ah, I had thought it was a different one. If that's the notification Cinebar was talking about, replicating that is out of my hands. At least, I think. I don't know how to quickly force an Eureka moment. Still, because it's referring to a trait, I don't think it was changed. Traits, in my experience, don't usually refer to gender, as I've said.
I've noticed a lot recently that notifications call my Sims "they" all the time. I don't like it. My sim is a male and I want him to be called a he, it just feels very unpersonalised, unspecific and incredibly lazy from a development point for every sim to just be a they. Nothing against non-conforming pronouns, but if I make a male sim, I want him to have male pronouns.
I hope they do add a pronoun option like that petition is requesting, so then people can chose the pronouns that work for them. I feel like that would be the best way of dealing with the situation and then everybody would be happy.
It heavily reminds me of how they dealt with vampires, "don't bother to add a toggle for those who prefer it how it was, just take the easy option and nerf it." It's just pure laziness really. Just give players the choice, I think that's what everyone wants regardless of how they feel on they/them pronouns. It shouldn't be a "player vs player" thing as no player is at fault it's just developer laziness and them taking the easy option that's the issue here.
I've noticed a lot recently that notifications call my Sims "they" all the time. I don't like it. My sim is a male and I want him to be called a he, it just feels very unpersonalised, unspecific and incredibly lazy from a development point for every sim to just be a they. Nothing against non-conforming pronouns, but if I make a male sim, I want him to have male pronouns.
I hope they do add a pronoun option like that petition is requesting, so then people can chose the pronouns that work for them. I feel like that would be the best way of dealing with the situation and then everybody would be happy.
It heavily reminds me of how they dealt with vampires, "don't bother to add a toggle for those who prefer it how it was, just take the easy option and nerf it." It's just pure laziness really. Just give players the choice, I think that's what everyone wants regardless of how they feel on they/them pronouns. It shouldn't be a "player vs player" thing as no player is at fault it's just developer laziness and them taking the easy option that's the issue here.
I think the difficult part with this is that they would probably have to create a third sex option for those sims that want to be called they/them.
I've noticed a lot recently that notifications call my Sims "they" all the time. I don't like it. My sim is a male and I want him to be called a he, it just feels very unpersonalised, unspecific and incredibly lazy from a development point for every sim to just be a they. Nothing against non-conforming pronouns, but if I make a male sim, I want him to have male pronouns.
I hope they do add a pronoun option like that petition is requesting, so then people can chose the pronouns that work for them. I feel like that would be the best way of dealing with the situation and then everybody would be happy.
It heavily reminds me of how they dealt with vampires, "don't bother to add a toggle for those who prefer it how it was, just take the easy option and nerf it." It's just pure laziness really. Just give players the choice, I think that's what everyone wants regardless of how they feel on they/them pronouns. It shouldn't be a "player vs player" thing as no player is at fault it's just developer laziness and them taking the easy option that's the issue here.
Thank you for confirming. (Others seem to think) but I'm not here to debate whether the game should or shouldn't add pronouns of they or them, but only that parents and players get a notice if there is such a plan to continue to change he/she to they and them as we can see in some examples they already do and parents and players should get a notice of any such changes. I agree about the vampires, one of the reasons I no longer bother.
Post edited by Cinebar on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I still keep wondering , where is the proof these changes are actual changes and those few text popups, mentioned here, weren't like that originally?
Just seeing couple of those and assuming they were deliberately changed does make it a fact.
To the best of my memory the Sim wasn't noted as they or them in a text popup when I was playing TS4.
Yes.. at 2017..
People become accustom to changes they don't even notice if they play games on a daily basis and get many patches. Those of us who don't play very often see the changes right away. And I would guess it's almost impossible concerning some changes that players would be able to see even smaller changes to things if they play a heavily modded game. And if they do, they might have to ask is it their mods or the game itself.
Yes, I'm not ashamed I stopped buying for TS4 in 2017. And I don't have room for it in my newer pc since I filled it with all my TS2 projects. Nothing wrong with that and or even had some small space left to add in some of my TS3. I think I spent enough on TS4 to have a say of what changes I would prefer to get a notice about before any updates. Whether that be a new pack and or a newer patch.
And I won't apologize if it were just trait notices stuff if for wanting the Sim to be called he or she in my game if I ever pick it back up again. No, I won't apologize for an opinion about choices. I want my Sims to be who I make them, just like anyone else. But the thread isn't about the game but the Maxis' notices.
Post edited by Cinebar on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Comments
TL:DR I feel like a lot of people are using this “new" thing as a way to express their unrelated views on NB people (Some of which are borderline transphobic. (Edit: I should probably remove the borderline.)) when it's really probably just lazy coding that's been going on for a while.
http://www.getfreeebooks.com/star-trek-original-series-fan-fiction-trilogy/
Actually, the use of they and them as singular dates back to the 1800s (I think even to the 1300s). It's commonly used. Ex: ”Are you going to call your boss?" "Yeah, I'll call them". I read a very interesting linguistics book that touched upon this subject.
From Oxford Dictionary: https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/200700#eid18519864
This. It's confusing, I know. But it is proper.
My Families Via PlumTree App
ETA: I'm also pretty sure EA would want recognition for such a groundbreaking feature and not try to sneak it in with no fanfare.
I hardly think any pronoun changes are a mistake. Do you really believe some examples stated here are mistakes? You know you said in another thread and I agreed with you changes in the baby object would not be cost effective for the revenue of this game. That is very true, but I also asked you but how does adding changes such as rainbow colors, and other things noted in the patch notes add to the revenue and be cost effective when the average player is just wanting better gameplay. All of this does actually cost time and money you know, even something as simple as adding colors to a painting. My thoughts would be why if not intended ( I doubt any pronoun difference is a mistake) would any of this take precedence over the things most players actually request such as better personalities (new trait improvements) etc. And not say anything but just let it pass by and hope we just accept changes without anyone having preferred actual patches that actually improve games. All this fanfare for one thing or group and not so much for everyone else. ( ?) It seems like special preferences for some and not so much (filled requests) for everyone else.
Just seeing couple of those and assuming they were deliberately changed does not make it a fact.
ETA: Edited to add missing word "not"
Sea may rise, sky may fall, My love will never die..
My heart, my heart, My drowning heart, Oh all the tears I've cried
Oh I may weep forevermore, My love will never die..
To the best of my memory the Sim wasn't noted as they or them in a text popup when I was playing TS4. Nor was the overly Asian name generator a thing before CL which I'm pretty sure iirc, a developer said he/she/they had made it so it would generate more Asian names and received many complaints since that was all it did all the time until they finally fixed the name, townie generator. This is new in the last few months or so to my knowledge as someone stated it started with the Snowy pack.
Enjoy my creations!
EDIT: Also, I think pop-ups and moodlets referring to traits were always using plural pronouns. Since any Sim can have said traits.
EDIT 2: Actually, I've an idea. To verify this:
What pop-up did you see specifically that you say was changed? Since my game hasn't been updated in a while, I could check for you.
Sea may rise, sky may fall, My love will never die..
My heart, my heart, My drowning heart, Oh all the tears I've cried
Oh I may weep forevermore, My love will never die..
@LJK
I believe this is the picture Cinebar was referring to.
Original here.
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/988174/lets-find-those-trait-improvements/p1
Sea may rise, sky may fall, My love will never die..
My heart, my heart, My drowning heart, Oh all the tears I've cried
Oh I may weep forevermore, My love will never die..
Ah, I had thought it was a different one. If that's the notification Cinebar was talking about, replicating that is out of my hands. At least, I think. I don't know how to quickly force an Eureka moment. Still, because it's referring to a trait, I don't think it was changed. Traits, in my experience, don't usually refer to gender, as I've said.
I hope they do add a pronoun option like that petition is requesting, so then people can chose the pronouns that work for them. I feel like that would be the best way of dealing with the situation and then everybody would be happy.
It heavily reminds me of how they dealt with vampires, "don't bother to add a toggle for those who prefer it how it was, just take the easy option and nerf it." It's just pure laziness really. Just give players the choice, I think that's what everyone wants regardless of how they feel on they/them pronouns. It shouldn't be a "player vs player" thing as no player is at fault it's just developer laziness and them taking the easy option that's the issue here.
I think the difficult part with this is that they would probably have to create a third sex option for those sims that want to be called they/them.
Thank you for confirming. (Others seem to think) but I'm not here to debate whether the game should or shouldn't add pronouns of they or them, but only that parents and players get a notice if there is such a plan to continue to change he/she to they and them as we can see in some examples they already do and parents and players should get a notice of any such changes. I agree about the vampires, one of the reasons I no longer bother.
People become accustom to changes they don't even notice if they play games on a daily basis and get many patches. Those of us who don't play very often see the changes right away. And I would guess it's almost impossible concerning some changes that players would be able to see even smaller changes to things if they play a heavily modded game. And if they do, they might have to ask is it their mods or the game itself.
Yes, I'm not ashamed I stopped buying for TS4 in 2017. And I don't have room for it in my newer pc since I filled it with all my TS2 projects. Nothing wrong with that and or even had some small space left to add in some of my TS3. I think I spent enough on TS4 to have a say of what changes I would prefer to get a notice about before any updates. Whether that be a new pack and or a newer patch.
And I won't apologize if it were just trait notices stuff if for wanting the Sim to be called he or she in my game if I ever pick it back up again. No, I won't apologize for an opinion about choices. I want my Sims to be who I make them, just like anyone else. But the thread isn't about the game but the Maxis' notices.
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.