i get so irritated when occult players blame other (realistic) simmers, for nerfing down Vampires, when in reality its EA to blame, Maxis to blame. They shoe horned you, without giving you an option and lets not act like they simple cant give us options and settings, heck even dust the bust has a setting.
Like they do listen to the community to some degree but dont only make changes for the community, there is a lot more going on on why exactly something happened. But sure lets attack each other when we should focus on the real ''enemie'' here.
But at the same time it is sad. Just like how they nerfed down whims and such, but it goes well with their vision for the sims to imaginate and take control. To have a safe space... Who knows if we ever get burglars, since they nerfed down Vampires.
I agree to an extent, the Sims team is to blame for how they were nerfed, but players are to blame for them being nerfed. If people didn't buy the pack and then complain they would've just been left how they are. It was the endless complaining from anti-occult players who bought an occult themed pack and were horrified that their game had occults in it that pushed for the "nerfing".
But yeah EA is to blame for how they dealt with it - they should've just dealt with the situation by adding a simple toggle in settings same as 3 and then everyone would've been happy, but instead they made vampires basically nonexistent and locked spellcasters in a realm. But that wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the complaints.
But its the sims team who "nerfed" them, instead of making toggles or finding more creative ways to let players control how they want the game to run for them. The easy way out is to just nerf them instead of creating more tools. Like you said, EA is to blame for nerfing, not simmers.
Now i don't advocate for buying occult dlc then complaining abt occult. I dont do that. But if occults are intrusive in non-supernatural dlc, its on EA to make it userfriendly and make people engage with it, not being pushed on people who want to buy a normal dlc.
The Sims has currently lost its identity. Bring it back for TS5
i get so irritated when occult players blame other (realistic) simmers, for nerfing down Vampires, when in reality its EA to blame, Maxis to blame. They shoe horned you, without giving you an option and lets not act like they simple cant give us options and settings, heck even dust the bust has a setting.
Like they do listen to the community to some degree but dont only make changes for the community, there is a lot more going on on why exactly something happened. But sure lets attack each other when we should focus on the real ''enemie'' here.
But at the same time it is sad. Just like how they nerfed down whims and such, but it goes well with their vision for the sims to imaginate and take control. To have a safe space... Who knows if we ever get burglars, since they nerfed down Vampires.
I agree to an extent, the Sims team is to blame for how they were nerfed, but players are to blame for them being nerfed. If people didn't buy the pack and then complain they would've just been left how they are. It was the endless complaining from anti-occult players who bought an occult themed pack and were horrified that their game had occults in it that pushed for the "nerfing".
But yeah EA is to blame for how they dealt with it - they should've just dealt with the situation by adding a simple toggle in settings same as 3 and then everyone would've been happy, but instead they made vampires basically nonexistent and locked spellcasters in a realm. But that wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the complaints.
Okay i dont know how active the gurus were back in 2017 but EA/Maxis doesnt really have a good back record when it comes to listening and transparency so i dont really think that some whiny complainers had such a huge impact on EA's Desicion when maybe 20% could and did use mods and the work-arounds for that matter. Dont people here always say that Simmers online are the vocal minority?!
Its just EA beeing EA i guess. Still trying to appeal to everyone while making niche packs.
i get so irritated when occult players blame other (realistic) simmers, for nerfing down Vampires, when in reality its EA to blame, Maxis to blame. They shoe horned you, without giving you an option and lets not act like they simple cant give us options and settings, heck even dust the bust has a setting.
Like they do listen to the community to some degree but dont only make changes for the community, there is a lot more going on on why exactly something happened. But sure lets attack each other when we should focus on the real ''enemie'' here.
But at the same time it is sad. Just like how they nerfed down whims and such, but it goes well with their vision for the sims to imaginate and take control. To have a safe space... Who knows if we ever get burglars, since they nerfed down Vampires.
I agree to an extent, the Sims team is to blame for how they were nerfed, but players are to blame for them being nerfed. If people didn't buy the pack and then complain they would've just been left how they are. It was the endless complaining from anti-occult players who bought an occult themed pack and were horrified that their game had occults in it that pushed for the "nerfing".
But yeah EA is to blame for how they dealt with it - they should've just dealt with the situation by adding a simple toggle in settings same as 3 and then everyone would've been happy, but instead they made vampires basically nonexistent and locked spellcasters in a realm. But that wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the complaints.
But its the sims team who "nerfed" them, instead of making toggles or finding more creative ways to let players control how they want the game to run for them. The easy way out is to just nerf them instead of creating more tools. Like you said, EA is to blame for nerfing, not simmers.
Now i don't advocate for buying occult dlc then complaining abt occult. I dont do that. But if occults are intrusive in non-supernatural dlc, its on EA to make it userfriendly and make people engage with it, not being pushed on people who want to buy a normal dlc.
I agree we need toggles rather than nerfs. It wouldn't keep breaking the game coding so much. I have a feeling a lot of realistic content will continue to get nerfed too including burglars. Why I encourage the use of MCCC because it does provide those toggles until EA does. Basically it is the NRAAs bug fix that helped the Sims 3 but for the Sims 4. Even for the Sims 3 there should have been more in game tools for supernaturals. It helped a lot for storytelling with even for those of us that play a hybrid of fantasy and reality.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Okay, I'm about to go OFF on Apartments in this game.
90% of them are insanely small
You can't change the venue type of them.
Those locked traits are annoying.
The windows being unmovable is shameful.
You can't upload them to the gallery without making them an entire room.
i get so irritated when occult players blame other (realistic) simmers, for nerfing down Vampires, when in reality its EA to blame, Maxis to blame. They shoe horned you, without giving you an option and lets not act like they simple cant give us options and settings, heck even dust the bust has a setting.
Like they do listen to the community to some degree but dont only make changes for the community, there is a lot more going on on why exactly something happened. But sure lets attack each other when we should focus on the real ''enemie'' here.
But at the same time it is sad. Just like how they nerfed down whims and such, but it goes well with their vision for the sims to imaginate and take control. To have a safe space... Who knows if we ever get burglars, since they nerfed down Vampires.
I agree to an extent, the Sims team is to blame for how they were nerfed, but players are to blame for them being nerfed. If people didn't buy the pack and then complain they would've just been left how they are. It was the endless complaining from anti-occult players who bought an occult themed pack and were horrified that their game had occults in it that pushed for the "nerfing".
But yeah EA is to blame for how they dealt with it - they should've just dealt with the situation by adding a simple toggle in settings same as 3 and then everyone would've been happy, but instead they made vampires basically nonexistent and locked spellcasters in a realm. But that wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the complaints.
But its the sims team who "nerfed" them, instead of making toggles or finding more creative ways to let players control how they want the game to run for them. The easy way out is to just nerf them instead of creating more tools. Like you said, EA is to blame for nerfing, not simmers.
Now i don't advocate for buying occult dlc then complaining abt occult. I dont do that. But if occults are intrusive in non-supernatural dlc, its on EA to make it userfriendly and make people engage with it, not being pushed on people who want to buy a normal dlc.
I agree we need toggles rather than nerfs. It wouldn't keep breaking the game coding so much. I have a feeling a lot of realistic content will continue to get nerfed too including burglars. Why I encourage the use of MCCC because it does provide those toggles until EA does. Basically it is the NRAAs bug fix that helped the Sims 3 but for the Sims 4. Even for the Sims 3 there should have been more in game tools for supernaturals. It helped a lot for storytelling with even for those of us that play a hybrid of fantasy and reality.
The fact is we have a toggle, the garlic braids, wreaths, and plants were for those who didn’t want vampires to visit. But many couldn’t be bothered to use them. So they complained loudly and often on here and on Twitter about how “intrusive” vampires were in the pack they bought titled Vampires because they just wanted the CAS and the BB objects and how dare there also be vampires behaving like vampires in the pack titled Vampires. So the next patch...no more vampires. Just sims who hang out on your porch at 2 a.m. playing blick block on their phones until dawn. It’s essentially a Gothic Victorian stuff pack now, it’s a shame.
The same thing happened with Seasons. They gave a toggle to prevent the weather from affecting your sims, but people again couldn’t be bothered to use it and griped and complained on here about weather related deaths and in the very next patch they too were nerfed almost entirely out of existence. So you see it doesn’t matter if we get toggles or not. Because most of the complainers, those who want this game to be hyper realistic and entirely devoid of humor and quirkiness cannot be bothered to utilize those toggles anyway and end up getting features that many of us specifically bought the packs for removed almost entirely. It maddening. Now they’re coming tomorrow for the dust bunnies. R.I.P little guys.
i get so irritated when occult players blame other (realistic) simmers, for nerfing down Vampires, when in reality its EA to blame, Maxis to blame. They shoe horned you, without giving you an option and lets not act like they simple cant give us options and settings, heck even dust the bust has a setting.
Like they do listen to the community to some degree but dont only make changes for the community, there is a lot more going on on why exactly something happened. But sure lets attack each other when we should focus on the real ''enemie'' here.
But at the same time it is sad. Just like how they nerfed down whims and such, but it goes well with their vision for the sims to imaginate and take control. To have a safe space... Who knows if we ever get burglars, since they nerfed down Vampires.
I agree to an extent, the Sims team is to blame for how they were nerfed, but players are to blame for them being nerfed. If people didn't buy the pack and then complain they would've just been left how they are. It was the endless complaining from anti-occult players who bought an occult themed pack and were horrified that their game had occults in it that pushed for the "nerfing".
But yeah EA is to blame for how they dealt with it - they should've just dealt with the situation by adding a simple toggle in settings same as 3 and then everyone would've been happy, but instead they made vampires basically nonexistent and locked spellcasters in a realm. But that wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the complaints.
But its the sims team who "nerfed" them, instead of making toggles or finding more creative ways to let players control how they want the game to run for them. The easy way out is to just nerf them instead of creating more tools. Like you said, EA is to blame for nerfing, not simmers.
Now i don't advocate for buying occult dlc then complaining abt occult. I dont do that. But if occults are intrusive in non-supernatural dlc, its on EA to make it userfriendly and make people engage with it, not being pushed on people who want to buy a normal dlc.
I agree we need toggles rather than nerfs. It wouldn't keep breaking the game coding so much. I have a feeling a lot of realistic content will continue to get nerfed too including burglars. Why I encourage the use of MCCC because it does provide those toggles until EA does. Basically it is the NRAAs bug fix that helped the Sims 3 but for the Sims 4. Even for the Sims 3 there should have been more in game tools for supernaturals. It helped a lot for storytelling with even for those of us that play a hybrid of fantasy and reality.
The fact is we have a toggle, the garlic braids, wreaths, and plants were for those who didn’t want vampires to visit. But many couldn’t be bothered to use them. So they complained loudly and often on here and on Twitter about how “intrusive” vampires were in the pack they bought titled Vampires because they just wanted the CAS and the BB objects and how dare there also be vampires behaving like vampires in the pack titled Vampires. So the next patch...no more vampires. Just sims who hang out on your porch at 2 a.m. playing blick block on their phones until dawn. It’s essentially a Gothic Victorian stuff pack now, it’s a shame.
The same thing happened with Seasons. They gave a toggle to prevent the weather from affecting your sims, but people again couldn’t be bothered to use it and griped and complained on here about weather related deaths and in the very next patch they too were nerfed almost entirely out of existence. So you see it doesn’t matter if we get toggles or not. Because most of the complainers, those who want this game to be hyper realistic and entirely devoid of humor and quirkiness cannot be bothered to utilize those toggles anyway and end up getting features that many of us specifically bought the packs for removed almost entirely. It maddening. Now they’re coming tomorrow for the dust bunnies. R.I.P little guys.
I agree with all of this except for the dust bunnies. I rarely side with nerfers here but the dust bunnies shouldve been a whole other toggle. They're really cute but they can get bothersome at times.
i get so irritated when occult players blame other (realistic) simmers, for nerfing down Vampires, when in reality its EA to blame, Maxis to blame. They shoe horned you, without giving you an option and lets not act like they simple cant give us options and settings, heck even dust the bust has a setting.
Like they do listen to the community to some degree but dont only make changes for the community, there is a lot more going on on why exactly something happened. But sure lets attack each other when we should focus on the real ''enemie'' here.
But at the same time it is sad. Just like how they nerfed down whims and such, but it goes well with their vision for the sims to imaginate and take control. To have a safe space... Who knows if we ever get burglars, since they nerfed down Vampires.
I agree to an extent, the Sims team is to blame for how they were nerfed, but players are to blame for them being nerfed. If people didn't buy the pack and then complain they would've just been left how they are. It was the endless complaining from anti-occult players who bought an occult themed pack and were horrified that their game had occults in it that pushed for the "nerfing".
But yeah EA is to blame for how they dealt with it - they should've just dealt with the situation by adding a simple toggle in settings same as 3 and then everyone would've been happy, but instead they made vampires basically nonexistent and locked spellcasters in a realm. But that wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the complaints.
This exactly. Vampires were given their own pack, so players that didn't want occults in their game could easily skip out on the pack and that those who wanted them could enjoy them in their full glory. But people who just wanted the CAS and BB items bought the pack anyway, knowing they wanted nothing to do with vampires in their game and then started complaining when vampires were doing vampire activities. Rather than using the anti-vampire measures provided by the game (ie garlic, locking doors, not interacting with vampires, not researching them on their computer, etc) or just deleting the premade vampires.
Some people even claimed that they did all of this (which is just hearsay since they provided no screenshot proof) and that they were still getting multiple break-ins a week, while others complained that they didn't want to use garlic because they didn't like the way it made their builds look. And some people even compared the break-ins to IRL illegal activities, even though it was just vampires behaving like vampiresin a pack dedicated to vampires.
So while yes, the Devs are to blame for caving in and actually nerfing the vampires, if the anti-occult players hadn't bought the pack for the clothes and furniture in the first place, they likely never would have been nerfed.
The problem really boils down to people who didn't want vampires decided to buy the pack anyway instead of either living without a handful of items or using CC (for those on PCs) and then started crying and complaining on the forums and on twitter. The nerfing really was a direct result of the complainers.
Okay i dont know how active the gurus were back in 2017 but EA/Maxis doesnt really have a good back record when it comes to listening and transparency so i dont really think that some whiny complainers had such a huge impact on EA's Desicion when maybe 20% could and did use mods and the work-arounds for that matter. Dont people here always say that Simmers online are the vocal minority?!
Its just EA beeing EA i guess. Still trying to appeal to everyone while making niche packs.
Unfortunately, the whiny complainers were loud enough to get the Devs to cave in, and as I mentioned above, many of them didn't bother with using work arounds. Either through mods, or in game. Because garlic "ruined" the way the porches looked. And some of those who did use mods even complained about having to use them.
I didn't start playing Sims until December 2018, so I don't have an "I was there, can confirm" story, but I've done some looking back on this issue and it appears that it was indeed to appease the complainers that vamps were nerfed.
And honestly? Some people just can't be bothered to take advice/use work-arounds anyway.
I mean, I saw this exact statement on twitter regarding the Paranormal Stuffpack.
"This is off topic, but could you please put out a fix to make the spirits less invasive? Whenever they are around I can't get anything done, my sims cancel every interaction to crouch in fear until they leave. "
And when someone suggested that they don't use the Haunted House lot trait, they literally said
"I want to play around with the lot type but the sprites are just super overwhelming.. especially when someone knocks on your door."
So yeah, that implies to me that the anti-occult part of the fanbase just can't be bothered to use work arounds. They want like the bare minimum of occult activity in their game. And the Haunted House lot trait is essentially a toggle. So I'm really not sure if toggles would satisfy the anti-occult crowd or not.
i get so irritated when occult players blame other (realistic) simmers, for nerfing down Vampires, when in reality its EA to blame, Maxis to blame. They shoe horned you, without giving you an option and lets not act like they simple cant give us options and settings, heck even dust the bust has a setting.
Like they do listen to the community to some degree but dont only make changes for the community, there is a lot more going on on why exactly something happened. But sure lets attack each other when we should focus on the real ''enemie'' here.
But at the same time it is sad. Just like how they nerfed down whims and such, but it goes well with their vision for the sims to imaginate and take control. To have a safe space... Who knows if we ever get burglars, since they nerfed down Vampires.
I agree to an extent, the Sims team is to blame for how they were nerfed, but players are to blame for them being nerfed. If people didn't buy the pack and then complain they would've just been left how they are. It was the endless complaining from anti-occult players who bought an occult themed pack and were horrified that their game had occults in it that pushed for the "nerfing".
But yeah EA is to blame for how they dealt with it - they should've just dealt with the situation by adding a simple toggle in settings same as 3 and then everyone would've been happy, but instead they made vampires basically nonexistent and locked spellcasters in a realm. But that wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the complaints.
This exactly. Vampires were given their own pack, so players that didn't want occults in their game could easily skip out on the pack and that those who wanted them could enjoy them in their full glory. But people who just wanted the CAS and BB items bought the pack anyway, knowing they wanted nothing to do with vampires in their game and then started complaining when vampires were doing vampire activities. Rather than using the anti-vampire measures provided by the game (ie garlic, locking doors, not interacting with vampires, not researching them on their computer, etc) or just deleting the premade vampires.
Some people even claimed that they did all of this (which is just hearsay since they provided no screenshot proof) and that they were still getting multiple break-ins a week, while others complained that they didn't want to use garlic because they didn't like the way it made their builds look. And some people even compared the break-ins to IRL illegal activities, even though it was just vampires behaving like vampiresin a pack dedicated to vampires.
So while yes, the Devs are to blame for caving in and actually nerfing the vampires, if the anti-occult players hadn't bought the pack for the clothes and furniture in the first place, they likely never would have been nerfed.
The problem really boils down to people who didn't want vampires decided to buy the pack anyway instead of either living without a handful of items or using CC (for those on PCs) and then started crying and complaining on the forums and on twitter. The nerfing really was a direct result of the complainers.
Okay i dont know how active the gurus were back in 2017 but EA/Maxis doesnt really have a good back record when it comes to listening and transparency so i dont really think that some whiny complainers had such a huge impact on EA's Desicion when maybe 20% could and did use mods and the work-arounds for that matter. Dont people here always say that Simmers online are the vocal minority?!
Its just EA beeing EA i guess. Still trying to appeal to everyone while making niche packs.
Unfortunately, the whiny complainers were loud enough to get the Devs to cave in, and as I mentioned above, many of them didn't bother with using work arounds. Either through mods, or in game. Because garlic "ruined" the way the porches looked. And some of those who did use mods even complained about having to use them.
I didn't start playing Sims until December 2018, so I don't have an "I was there, can confirm" story, but I've done some looking back on this issue and it appears that it was indeed to appease the complainers that vamps were nerfed.
And honestly? Some people just can't be bothered to take advice/use work-arounds anyway.
I mean, I saw this exact statement on twitter regarding the Paranormal Stuffpack.
"This is off topic, but could you please put out a fix to make the spirits less invasive? Whenever they are around I can't get anything done, my sims cancel every interaction to crouch in fear until they leave. "
And when someone suggested that they don't use the Haunted House lot trait, they literally said
"I want to play around with the lot type but the sprites are just super overwhelming.. especially when someone knocks on your door."
So yeah, that implies to me that the anti-occult part of the fanbase just can't be bothered to use work arounds. They want like the bare minimum of occult activity in their game. And the Haunted House lot trait is essentially a toggle. So I'm really not sure if toggles would satisfy the anti-occult crowd or not.
Exactly, “put in toggles” is stated as a cure all but I have seen so many incidents of people complaining they don’t want to use them, rather they want a key gameplay feature tuned down to the point of non existence instead. Because the don’t want The Sims. They want a digital dollhouse.
Unfortunately, the whiny complainers were loud enough to get the Devs to cave in, and as I mentioned above, many of them didn't bother with using work arounds. Either through mods, or in game. Because garlic "ruined" the way the porches looked. And some of those who did use mods even complained about having to use them.
I didn't start playing Sims until December 2018, so I don't have an "I was there, can confirm" story, but I've done some looking back on this issue and it appears that it was indeed to appease the complainers that vamps were nerfed.
And honestly? Some people just can't be bothered to take advice/use work-arounds anyway.
I mean, I saw this exact statement on twitter regarding the Paranormal Stuffpack.
"This is off topic, but could you please put out a fix to make the spirits less invasive? Whenever they are around I can't get anything done, my sims cancel every interaction to crouch in fear until they leave. "
And when someone suggested that they don't use the Haunted House lot trait, they literally said
"I want to play around with the lot type but the sprites are just super overwhelming.. especially when someone knocks on your door."
So yeah, that implies to me that the anti-occult part of the fanbase just can't be bothered to use work arounds. They want like the bare minimum of occult activity in their game. And the Haunted House lot trait is essentially a toggle. So I'm really not sure if toggles would satisfy the anti-occult crowd or not.
Even more reasons to blame the company, i stand by that.
They made the vampires boring, (Not really boring but cant find another word) and basically non-exsistent for a boring game and they will continue to make boring occults do so. Because it fits with the broader audience and their agenda. Gameplay packs can be an indicator that only a small percentage is interested in this stuff, when looking at a bigger scope (JTB?), but again they still try to appeal to the builders/cas players by sometimes adding a completly different style (paranormal, movie hangout)
@MeowchaFrappe
Just like you i joined in 2018, so maybe i could be wrong, but lets not act like, the vampire nerfing/break ins got as much backlash as skintones. Got us an open letter from the sims team or something. Again if y'all can give me a twitter post, like they did with dust the bust or a blog from the company i change my mind immediatly.
Its just baffeling to me, how they could tone down a feature many people loved, many people praised them for, without blinking with an eye, . There is something fishy about it. They have a back record to do stuff like that.
Toggles aren't a cure all, as no matter what is done someone somewhere is not going to be satisfied. I do think toggles instead of nerfs are the best answer though, because it isn't just the anti occults crowd that would like options here, I have also seen several people say they want occult gameplay in some of their saves and not in others. Folks are not necessarily just realism or occult players, some, like me are both. No more nerfs though. They don't know how to tune things without taking it to the opposite extreme.
Unfortunately, the whiny complainers were loud enough to get the Devs to cave in, and as I mentioned above, many of them didn't bother with using work arounds. Either through mods, or in game. Because garlic "ruined" the way the porches looked. And some of those who did use mods even complained about having to use them.
I didn't start playing Sims until December 2018, so I don't have an "I was there, can confirm" story, but I've done some looking back on this issue and it appears that it was indeed to appease the complainers that vamps were nerfed.
And honestly? Some people just can't be bothered to take advice/use work-arounds anyway.
I mean, I saw this exact statement on twitter regarding the Paranormal Stuffpack.
"This is off topic, but could you please put out a fix to make the spirits less invasive? Whenever they are around I can't get anything done, my sims cancel every interaction to crouch in fear until they leave. "
And when someone suggested that they don't use the Haunted House lot trait, they literally said
"I want to play around with the lot type but the sprites are just super overwhelming.. especially when someone knocks on your door."
So yeah, that implies to me that the anti-occult part of the fanbase just can't be bothered to use work arounds. They want like the bare minimum of occult activity in their game. And the Haunted House lot trait is essentially a toggle. So I'm really not sure if toggles would satisfy the anti-occult crowd or not.
Even more reasons to blame the company, i stand by that.
They made the vampires boring, (Not really boring but cant find another word) and basically non-exsistent for a boring game and they will continue to make boring occults do so. Because it fits with the broader audience and their agenda. Gameplay packs can be an indicator that only a small percentage is interested in this stuff, when looking at a bigger scope (JTB?), but again they still try to appeal to the builders/cas players by sometimes adding a completly different style (paranormal, movie hangout)
@MeowchaFrappe
Just like you i joined in 2018, so maybe i could be wrong, but lets not act like, the vampire nerfing/break ins got as much backlash as skintones. Got us an open letter from the sims team or something. Again if y'all can give me a twitter post, like they did with dust the bust or a blog from the company i change my mind immediatly.
Its just baffeling to me, how they could tone down a feature many people loved, many people praised them for, without blinking with an eye, . There is something fishy about it. They have a back record to do stuff like that.
But that’s just the point. They weren’t boring until the complainers piled on and they ended up getting nerfed despite the fact that there were toggles added, and that’s the point. Chaos players and occult player cannot win against the dollhouse crowd. Toggles do not make it better because they refused to use them when they’re provided. Instead they pile on with complaints and then $10.00 worth of features get removed out of a pack we paid $20.00. If I blame EA/Maxis/The Devs for anything it’s trying to please all of the people all of the time. Because all that’s happened is the trademark fun and quirks of this game are getting watered down by a handful of people who only want to play in sunshine and roses and never be presented with any kind of challenge.
Unfortunately, the whiny complainers were loud enough to get the Devs to cave in, and as I mentioned above, many of them didn't bother with using work arounds. Either through mods, or in game. Because garlic "ruined" the way the porches looked. And some of those who did use mods even complained about having to use them.
I didn't start playing Sims until December 2018, so I don't have an "I was there, can confirm" story, but I've done some looking back on this issue and it appears that it was indeed to appease the complainers that vamps were nerfed.
And honestly? Some people just can't be bothered to take advice/use work-arounds anyway.
I mean, I saw this exact statement on twitter regarding the Paranormal Stuffpack.
"This is off topic, but could you please put out a fix to make the spirits less invasive? Whenever they are around I can't get anything done, my sims cancel every interaction to crouch in fear until they leave. "
And when someone suggested that they don't use the Haunted House lot trait, they literally said
"I want to play around with the lot type but the sprites are just super overwhelming.. especially when someone knocks on your door."
So yeah, that implies to me that the anti-occult part of the fanbase just can't be bothered to use work arounds. They want like the bare minimum of occult activity in their game. And the Haunted House lot trait is essentially a toggle. So I'm really not sure if toggles would satisfy the anti-occult crowd or not.
Even more reasons to blame the company, i stand by that.
They made the vampires boring, (Not really boring but cant find another word) and basically non-exsistent for a boring game and they will continue to make boring occults do so. Because it fits with the broader audience and their agenda. Gameplay packs can be an indicator that only a small percentage is interested in this stuff, when looking at a bigger scope (JTB?), but again they still try to appeal to the builders/cas players by sometimes adding a completly different style (paranormal, movie hangout)
@MeowchaFrappe
Just like you i joined in 2018, so maybe i could be wrong, but lets not act like, the vampire nerfing/break ins got as much backlash as skintones. Got us an open letter from the sims team or something. Again if y'all can give me a twitter post, like they did with dust the bust or a blog from the company i change my mind immediatly.
Its just baffeling to me, how they could tone down a feature many people loved, many people praised them for, without blinking with an eye, . There is something fishy about it. They have a back record to do stuff like that.
But that’s just the point. They weren’t boring until the complainers piled on and they ended up getting nerfed despite the fact that there were toggles added, and that’s the point. Chaos players and occult player cannot win against the dollhouse crowd. Toggles do not make it better because they refused to use them when they’re provided. Instead they pile on with complaints and then $10.00 worth of features get removed out of a pack we paid $20.00. If I blame EA/Maxis/The Devs for anything it’s trying to please all of the people all of the time. Because all that’s happened is the trademark fun and quirks of this game are getting watered down by a handful of people who only want to play in sunshine and roses and never be presented with any kind of challenge.
My point is that the complaints that some simmers had are what this game stands for, it did not match up with their advertisement (just like with the skintones) The complainers are their target audience. This is the game with its dlc, this is what they try to sell and this is how they market the game these days. sunhine and roses with lack of consequences, where you take control. This Game is supposed to give you barely a challenge and it is supposed to play like a dollhouse. Sims Team doesnt try to please us, they try to sell you the game that they advertise.
It didnt need complainers to come to that realisation. Marketing is all over the place and changed over time. Thats what i was trying to say all along. I think sooner or later they would have changed it anyways (just like they keep doing nerfs and silently remove features) even without the complains, because Vampires is still a DLC for the T+ rated Sims 4 and it will/had suffer from that.
Misleading as heck. They played us, and i dont think that the direction that the sims4 took will change, but who knows with this company at this point.
The nerfing itself doesn't bother me so much as EA enabling these players does. I worked in retail for three years. Want to get your way? Throw a temper tantrum, and 99% of the time, you'll win. One of my most memorable experiences in retail is a customer who got a 50% discount on a dress because she demanded it. Not because the dress was faulty or had a different price. No, she just wanted a discount, she pitched a fit, she got one. And she did this twice. Makes me wonder why we teach kids not to do it because in my experience, for adults, it works.
The players who buy an occult pack and complain about occults while refusing any and all workarounds? They know what they're doing. They know they'll get their way if enough of them scream at the top of their lungs.
I think there's a line between wanting the main features of a pack nerfed, for example what happened with vampires (with which i disagree) and wanting a feature balanced because it's not working properly and in a balanced way, for example getting a constant inspired moodlet in Bust the Dust, or having to vacuum the floor twice a day...
It doesn't have to be all black and white. We don't need to be either a nerf enthusiast or a nerf denier.
We have to think about each case separatelly...
I don't like features to be nerfed, but does that mean that i have to accept a broken and unbalanced content?
I think there's a line between wanting the main features of a pack nerfed, for example what happened with vampires (with which i disagree) and wanting a feature balanced because it's not working properly and in a balanced way, for example getting a constant inspired moodlet in Bust the Dust, or having to vacuum the floor twice a day...
It doesn't have to be all black and white. We don't need to be either a nerf enthusiast or a nerf denier.
We have to think about each case separatelly...
I don't like features to be nerfed, but does that mean that i have to accept a broken and unbalanced content?
I think that's where a lot of the confusion comes in, there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting balance especially with Bust the Dust and Paranormal.
Paranormal, as much as I love it, is a little over the top with guests getting scared every time they knock on the door, it takes my sim at least five attempts before they can invite their visitors inside because said visiting sim is too "terrified" to do anything but run away in terror, which is funny but very annoying and unbalanced.
What happened with Vampires is absolutely not OK because it ended up bubbling over into Mermaids, which are half-finished imho (customization is on point though) and Spellcasters who came pre-nerfed and shackled to the Magic Realm for the majority of their magical shenanigans (again, customization is on point).
Long and short is, features shouldn't be nerfed, period. However, they should be at the very least balanced.
Post edited by halloweenchild on
Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
i get so irritated when occult players blame other (realistic) simmers, for nerfing down Vampires, when in reality its EA to blame, Maxis to blame. They shoe horned you, without giving you an option and lets not act like they simple cant give us options and settings, heck even dust the bust has a setting.
Like they do listen to the community to some degree but dont only make changes for the community, there is a lot more going on on why exactly something happened. But sure lets attack each other when we should focus on the real ''enemie'' here.
But at the same time it is sad. Just like how they nerfed down whims and such, but it goes well with their vision for the sims to imaginate and take control. To have a safe space... Who knows if we ever get burglars, since they nerfed down Vampires.
I agree to an extent, the Sims team is to blame for how they were nerfed, but players are to blame for them being nerfed. If people didn't buy the pack and then complain they would've just been left how they are. It was the endless complaining from anti-occult players who bought an occult themed pack and were horrified that their game had occults in it that pushed for the "nerfing".
But yeah EA is to blame for how they dealt with it - they should've just dealt with the situation by adding a simple toggle in settings same as 3 and then everyone would've been happy, but instead they made vampires basically nonexistent and locked spellcasters in a realm. But that wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the complaints.
But its the sims team who "nerfed" them, instead of making toggles or finding more creative ways to let players control how they want the game to run for them. The easy way out is to just nerf them instead of creating more tools. Like you said, EA is to blame for nerfing, not simmers.
Now i don't advocate for buying occult dlc then complaining abt occult. I dont do that. But if occults are intrusive in non-supernatural dlc, its on EA to make it userfriendly and make people engage with it, not being pushed on people who want to buy a normal dlc.
I agree we need toggles rather than nerfs. It wouldn't keep breaking the game coding so much. I have a feeling a lot of realistic content will continue to get nerfed too including burglars. Why I encourage the use of MCCC because it does provide those toggles until EA does. Basically it is the NRAAs bug fix that helped the Sims 3 but for the Sims 4. Even for the Sims 3 there should have been more in game tools for supernaturals. It helped a lot for storytelling with even for those of us that play a hybrid of fantasy and reality.
The fact is we have a toggle, the garlic braids, wreaths, and plants were for those who didn’t want vampires to visit. But many couldn’t be bothered to use them. So they complained loudly and often on here and on Twitter about how “intrusive” vampires were in the pack they bought titled Vampires because they just wanted the CAS and the BB objects and how dare there also be vampires behaving like vampires in the pack titled Vampires. So the next patch...no more vampires. Just sims who hang out on your porch at 2 a.m. playing blick block on their phones until dawn. It’s essentially a Gothic Victorian stuff pack now, it’s a shame.
The same thing happened with Seasons. They gave a toggle to prevent the weather from affecting your sims, but people again couldn’t be bothered to use it and griped and complained on here about weather related deaths and in the very next patch they too were nerfed almost entirely out of existence. So you see it doesn’t matter if we get toggles or not. Because most of the complainers, those who want this game to be hyper realistic and entirely devoid of humor and quirkiness cannot be bothered to utilize those toggles anyway and end up getting features that many of us specifically bought the packs for removed almost entirely. It maddening. Now they’re coming tomorrow for the dust bunnies. R.I.P little guys.
Vampires was a raw deal. Although, seasons had some real issues like Sims dropping dead by the truckload because they were freezing to death. All they really needed to do was make them change their clothes.
The nerfing itself doesn't bother me so much as EA enabling these players does I worked in retail for three years. Want to get your way? Throw a temper tantrum, and 99% of the time, you'll win. One of my most memorable experiences in retail is a customer who got a 50% discount on a dress because she demanded it. Not because the dress was faulty or had a different price. No, she just wanted a discount, she pitched a fit, she got one. And she did this twice. Makes me wonder why we teach kids not to do it because in my experience, for adults, it works.
The players who buy an occult pack and complain about occults while refusing any and all workarounds? They know what they're doing. They know they'll get their way if enough of them scream at the top of their lungs.
I don't think EA will stop with the "nerfs," though, because their ultimate goal is to sell as many packs as possible. People who are excited about occults will buy the supernatural packs first, but realistic players won't buy unless things seem tamer, so of course, EA will make changes (and calm the features down later) to sell more packs.
Don’t think this will actually be an unpopular opinion but...I’m beyond tired of the sims team taking items from packs that we’ve paid for and making them base game. It’s lazy and disrespectful. Another metal frame bed could’ve been made for the bunk beds, but instead, they take the parenthood bed. Same mesh with different textures would’ve been fine in my opinion. But to take the bed and just make it base game by untagging it... lazy and disrespectful to those of us that have paid for the pack. Screams “oh well we don’t care.” Stop. Just stop.
My unpopular opinion is that a fix that isn't retroactive is not fix at all (Batuu masks in the current patch). My main save is only a few years old and I COULD recreate it with MCCC in a new save, but what about players who don't use mods or who play the same save since 2014?
"But, Enki, you're unreasonable, there are technical limitations. Some thing just cannot get fixed retroactively" - Well, in this case simply don't break 🐸🐸🐸🐸 in the first place.
Edit: Yes, also don't break my heart, EA. That's very kind of you. But I actually meant excrements.
One of the things I genuinely don't get is the people who complain when a heavily requested feature is added for free because it "should've been done years ago". Do you not want them to improve the game? Should it just stay the same forever as it's too late now to make changes?
I just don't understand. Why would you complain that they're improving the game and making it better. That's literally what we want. Nobody has a time machine, they can't go back to 2014 and add all the things people want then, but they can add them now. It's better late than never at the end of the day. They could've just not added these items and carried on doing bare minimum updates with recolored hot tubs, nothing is guaranteed in this game. I'm not saying people should be praising and hailing them for it, but cmon there's tons of things that can be complained about but them improving the game isn't one of them.
Not sure if this is an unpopular opinion but I'd like to see commercial rabbit holes like those in Journey to Batuu, in this way maybe neighborhoods buildings won't be just pretty decorations
I heard that the latest patch sped up eating, and I'm not happy about that. I never had a problem with the time it took sims to eat. I liked playing large families and I need enough time for them to all sit down at the table and eat together. I also liked taking screenshots while my sims were all eating together. I guess this will be another reason for me to not come back to the sims 4.
@SeashoreLivia Me too! My main save is set in this mansion. Post-patch, I find that some Sims already finish their meal in the time it takes for others to go to the dining room. Also when I do get them to dine together, they don’t talk anymore like they used to do. Sad.
I don't like people that are just like 'kits are microtransaction wah wah wah microtransactions with a cute name' because they are NOT microtransactions, they are optional packs that you quite literally do not have to buy. And if you don't like them, don't buy them and mind your own business. Some people (myself included) like the packs, and its kind of annoying to hear 'microtransactions with a cute name' being shoved down my throat every time I look to spread Kit Positivity.
One of the things I genuinely don't get is the people who complain when a heavily requested feature is added for free because it "should've been done years ago". Do you not want them to improve the game? Should it just stay the same forever as it's too late now to make changes?
I just don't understand. Why would you complain that they're improving the game and making it better. That's literally what we want. Nobody has a time machine, they can't go back to 2014 and add all the things people want then, but they can add them now. It's better late than never at the end of the day. They could've just not added these items and carried on doing bare minimum updates with recolored hot tubs, nothing is guaranteed in this game. I'm not saying people should be praising and hailing them for it, but cmon there's tons of things that can be complained about but them improving the game isn't one of them.
If the roles were reverse and people said "Why are you so happy with the sims." Your answer will probably contain "I feel, I think, etc." Just look at your first and second paragraph as examples as well. Short answer, they just don't see things like you do. So now when you see "The game is lack luster..." consider there is an invisible 'I' there.
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But its the sims team who "nerfed" them, instead of making toggles or finding more creative ways to let players control how they want the game to run for them. The easy way out is to just nerf them instead of creating more tools. Like you said, EA is to blame for nerfing, not simmers.
Now i don't advocate for buying occult dlc then complaining abt occult. I dont do that. But if occults are intrusive in non-supernatural dlc, its on EA to make it userfriendly and make people engage with it, not being pushed on people who want to buy a normal dlc.
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
Okay i dont know how active the gurus were back in 2017 but EA/Maxis doesnt really have a good back record when it comes to listening and transparency so i dont really think that some whiny complainers had such a huge impact on EA's Desicion when maybe 20% could and did use mods and the work-arounds for that matter. Dont people here always say that Simmers online are the vocal minority?!
Its just EA beeing EA i guess. Still trying to appeal to everyone while making niche packs.
90% of them are insanely small
You can't change the venue type of them.
Those locked traits are annoying.
The windows being unmovable is shameful.
You can't upload them to the gallery without making them an entire room.
Good god they're bad.
The fact is we have a toggle, the garlic braids, wreaths, and plants were for those who didn’t want vampires to visit. But many couldn’t be bothered to use them. So they complained loudly and often on here and on Twitter about how “intrusive” vampires were in the pack they bought titled Vampires because they just wanted the CAS and the BB objects and how dare there also be vampires behaving like vampires in the pack titled Vampires. So the next patch...no more vampires. Just sims who hang out on your porch at 2 a.m. playing blick block on their phones until dawn. It’s essentially a Gothic Victorian stuff pack now, it’s a shame.
The same thing happened with Seasons. They gave a toggle to prevent the weather from affecting your sims, but people again couldn’t be bothered to use it and griped and complained on here about weather related deaths and in the very next patch they too were nerfed almost entirely out of existence. So you see it doesn’t matter if we get toggles or not. Because most of the complainers, those who want this game to be hyper realistic and entirely devoid of humor and quirkiness cannot be bothered to utilize those toggles anyway and end up getting features that many of us specifically bought the packs for removed almost entirely. It maddening. Now they’re coming tomorrow for the dust bunnies. R.I.P little guys.
I agree with all of this except for the dust bunnies. I rarely side with nerfers here but the dust bunnies shouldve been a whole other toggle. They're really cute but they can get bothersome at times.
This exactly. Vampires were given their own pack, so players that didn't want occults in their game could easily skip out on the pack and that those who wanted them could enjoy them in their full glory. But people who just wanted the CAS and BB items bought the pack anyway, knowing they wanted nothing to do with vampires in their game and then started complaining when vampires were doing vampire activities. Rather than using the anti-vampire measures provided by the game (ie garlic, locking doors, not interacting with vampires, not researching them on their computer, etc) or just deleting the premade vampires.
Some people even claimed that they did all of this (which is just hearsay since they provided no screenshot proof) and that they were still getting multiple break-ins a week, while others complained that they didn't want to use garlic because they didn't like the way it made their builds look. And some people even compared the break-ins to IRL illegal activities, even though it was just vampires behaving like vampiresin a pack dedicated to vampires.
So while yes, the Devs are to blame for caving in and actually nerfing the vampires, if the anti-occult players hadn't bought the pack for the clothes and furniture in the first place, they likely never would have been nerfed.
The problem really boils down to people who didn't want vampires decided to buy the pack anyway instead of either living without a handful of items or using CC (for those on PCs) and then started crying and complaining on the forums and on twitter. The nerfing really was a direct result of the complainers.
Unfortunately, the whiny complainers were loud enough to get the Devs to cave in, and as I mentioned above, many of them didn't bother with using work arounds. Either through mods, or in game. Because garlic "ruined" the way the porches looked. And some of those who did use mods even complained about having to use them.
I didn't start playing Sims until December 2018, so I don't have an "I was there, can confirm" story, but I've done some looking back on this issue and it appears that it was indeed to appease the complainers that vamps were nerfed.
And honestly? Some people just can't be bothered to take advice/use work-arounds anyway.
I mean, I saw this exact statement on twitter regarding the Paranormal Stuffpack.
"This is off topic, but could you please put out a fix to make the spirits less invasive? Whenever they are around I can't get anything done, my sims cancel every interaction to crouch in fear until they leave. "
And when someone suggested that they don't use the Haunted House lot trait, they literally said
"I want to play around with the lot type but the sprites are just super overwhelming.. especially when someone knocks on your door."
So yeah, that implies to me that the anti-occult part of the fanbase just can't be bothered to use work arounds. They want like the bare minimum of occult activity in their game. And the Haunted House lot trait is essentially a toggle. So I'm really not sure if toggles would satisfy the anti-occult crowd or not.
Exactly, “put in toggles” is stated as a cure all but I have seen so many incidents of people complaining they don’t want to use them, rather they want a key gameplay feature tuned down to the point of non existence instead. Because the don’t want The Sims. They want a digital dollhouse.
Even more reasons to blame the company, i stand by that.
They made the vampires boring, (Not really boring but cant find another word) and basically non-exsistent for a boring game and they will continue to make boring occults do so. Because it fits with the broader audience and their agenda. Gameplay packs can be an indicator that only a small percentage is interested in this stuff, when looking at a bigger scope (JTB?), but again they still try to appeal to the builders/cas players by sometimes adding a completly different style (paranormal, movie hangout)
@MeowchaFrappe
Just like you i joined in 2018, so maybe i could be wrong, but lets not act like, the vampire nerfing/break ins got as much backlash as skintones. Got us an open letter from the sims team or something. Again if y'all can give me a twitter post, like they did with dust the bust or a blog from the company i change my mind immediatly.
Its just baffeling to me, how they could tone down a feature many people loved, many people praised them for, without blinking with an eye, . There is something fishy about it. They have a back record to do stuff like that.
But that’s just the point. They weren’t boring until the complainers piled on and they ended up getting nerfed despite the fact that there were toggles added, and that’s the point. Chaos players and occult player cannot win against the dollhouse crowd. Toggles do not make it better because they refused to use them when they’re provided. Instead they pile on with complaints and then $10.00 worth of features get removed out of a pack we paid $20.00. If I blame EA/Maxis/The Devs for anything it’s trying to please all of the people all of the time. Because all that’s happened is the trademark fun and quirks of this game are getting watered down by a handful of people who only want to play in sunshine and roses and never be presented with any kind of challenge.
My point is that the complaints that some simmers had are what this game stands for, it did not match up with their advertisement (just like with the skintones) The complainers are their target audience. This is the game with its dlc, this is what they try to sell and this is how they market the game these days. sunhine and roses with lack of consequences, where you take control. This Game is supposed to give you barely a challenge and it is supposed to play like a dollhouse. Sims Team doesnt try to please us, they try to sell you the game that they advertise.
It didnt need complainers to come to that realisation. Marketing is all over the place and changed over time. Thats what i was trying to say all along. I think sooner or later they would have changed it anyways (just like they keep doing nerfs and silently remove features) even without the complains, because Vampires is still a DLC for the T+ rated Sims 4 and it will/had suffer from that.
Misleading as heck. They played us, and i dont think that the direction that the sims4 took will change, but who knows with this company at this point.
The players who buy an occult pack and complain about occults while refusing any and all workarounds? They know what they're doing. They know they'll get their way if enough of them scream at the top of their lungs.
It doesn't have to be all black and white. We don't need to be either a nerf enthusiast or a nerf denier.
We have to think about each case separatelly...
I don't like features to be nerfed, but does that mean that i have to accept a broken and unbalanced content?
I think that's where a lot of the confusion comes in, there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting balance especially with Bust the Dust and Paranormal.
Paranormal, as much as I love it, is a little over the top with guests getting scared every time they knock on the door, it takes my sim at least five attempts before they can invite their visitors inside because said visiting sim is too "terrified" to do anything but run away in terror, which is funny but very annoying and unbalanced.
What happened with Vampires is absolutely not OK because it ended up bubbling over into Mermaids, which are half-finished imho (customization is on point though) and Spellcasters who came pre-nerfed and shackled to the Magic Realm for the majority of their magical shenanigans (again, customization is on point).
Long and short is, features shouldn't be nerfed, period. However, they should be at the very least balanced.
Vampires was a raw deal. Although, seasons had some real issues like Sims dropping dead by the truckload because they were freezing to death. All they really needed to do was make them change their clothes.
I don't think EA will stop with the "nerfs," though, because their ultimate goal is to sell as many packs as possible. People who are excited about occults will buy the supernatural packs first, but realistic players won't buy unless things seem tamer, so of course, EA will make changes (and calm the features down later) to sell more packs.
"But, Enki, you're unreasonable, there are technical limitations. Some thing just cannot get fixed retroactively" - Well, in this case simply don't break 🐸🐸🐸🐸 in the first place.
Edit: Yes, also don't break my heart, EA. That's very kind of you. But I actually meant excrements.
I just don't understand. Why would you complain that they're improving the game and making it better. That's literally what we want. Nobody has a time machine, they can't go back to 2014 and add all the things people want then, but they can add them now. It's better late than never at the end of the day. They could've just not added these items and carried on doing bare minimum updates with recolored hot tubs, nothing is guaranteed in this game. I'm not saying people should be praising and hailing them for it, but cmon there's tons of things that can be complained about but them improving the game isn't one of them.
Prove to me that they are not microtransactions.
If the roles were reverse and people said "Why are you so happy with the sims." Your answer will probably contain "I feel, I think, etc." Just look at your first and second paragraph as examples as well. Short answer, they just don't see things like you do. So now when you see "The game is lack luster..." consider there is an invisible 'I' there.