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Stairs again...

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  • eufleufl Posts: 64 Member
    edited March 2021
    Metaphasic wrote: »
    Three hours just to get some stairs working right isn't worth my time.

    I´m sorry but then all games aren´t worth the time, they are played. Yes, some effort is usually needed to reach a goal. Yes, I needed some time to learn a way around the restrictions of a game but that is, how one can get better.
    There are always borders to cross, and if they are caused by bugs or simply, cause features weren´t implemented, makes no difference. It´s possible to do things in the Sims 4, that were not intended by the devs. That is, what creativity means: to make a step further.
  • DeanXeLDeanXeL Posts: 289 Member
    edited May 2021
    Alright, I am officially a fool X.x All the elaborate workarounds why it is SO incredibly easy...
    I got to thinking, TS4 is basically designed to build, not to remove, so I figured this might work:
    1) build a "hall" around the stairs and remove ALL the floor (now you have a walled room without floor)
    DlV7ENy.png
    2) build the floor you do want in the hall, so basically construct the floor around the hole. Use a platform and
    lower the platform to normal room floor and feel free to draw the arrows around to fit your need for the opening. (You can also use a deck instead of platform, no need for lowering) You can also keep adding more pieces of 'floor' (diagonal corners, pieces you want to cut out etc.)
    EGgIAUh.png
    oVNSxQa.png
    3) Don't forget to add the floor back above the stairs you are placing from the floor below! If you don't place these 3 blocks, the stairs have no 'ceiling to remove' and the staircase is not functional. (Honestly, this is new to me since my last workaround, never noticed this before) EDIT (14/05/2021): they fixed this in the last patch, no need to readd the ceiling above the staircase! Edit(28/05/2021): last patch broke it again, might want to just keep doing this to avoid future problems.
    YzOJHOY.png
    4) Finish off however you like, half walls, fences, nothing, debug stuff.

    Keep in mind, once you do place a wall or fences, if you remove them you 'explode' the room (no floor + removing walls constitutes not a room) So either remove them by dragging the room out 1 line everywhere, adding platform over the fence (both sides, then it disappears) and then lowering the platform/redragging the hole to original shape or start over, it really doesn't take long.
    Post edited by DeanXeL on
  • eufleufl Posts: 64 Member
    edited May 2021
    @DeanXeL , jepp, that´s mostly that, what I do too. Like I said, it sounds more complicated than it really is. Only difference is, that I construct those "halls" or "rooms" outside of the house in the size, they shall have, copy them over, then cut out the floor, and set the stairways. A lot in this game became more easy after me learning to think in terms of "rooms" instead of walls.

    The same goes for wall applications like those things in the second frieze menu. They want to be placed from the floor above. And that is difficult, if there is no room, i.e. roof for example. Then I again use the room without walls, make a 1x1 piece, and fill all the space under a roof, that is not used as room. So the room in the attic stays like it is, and all the unused space there becomes another room. And voilá, now it´s possible to place the deco stuff to my likes. One can see that on my picture of the building with the mansard roof.

    But it was a hard way to that point, cause I didn´t want to learn to build rooms, I tried to stick with the method of the previous games, drew walls and fences instead fo using the different room tools and change the look of the room borders later on. But since I always construct rooms, copy them and use the arrows to change their size, everything became a lot easier. Only to me this method is not intuitive... It´s still strange. :D

    I mostly use not the platform tool for this but the x room, that is in the second line of the room menu. It also has no walls but constructs a full room, cause I realized, that the platforms merge with the surrounding room after they become the same floor height. This is not the case with the other tool.
    But I use the platforms always, if I want to make a stairway through a foundation, cause we now are able to paint the walls of such a "foundation", cause it´s then part of a sunken platform. Here my example, the same house. The L-shaped platform is made for the basement stairs, and should be coloured after it is set. If the stair is built, the colours can get messe up and not fill the whole thing like they should. The other platform is for the partially walled stairs, that start in the ground floor. It´s only sad, that we cant use normal wallpapers in them. But I think, what I did, looks acceptable afterwards:



    And cause I talked about the friezes: Here an example of friezes showing up in the staircase, but mostly invisible. But marking them, makes them yellow, and even the ones, that aren´t visible form above, will then show up. Shift and k is the right tool to then delete them one after another. And this is mostly, why I wrote, never to change an "exploded" room, after it is finished:



    The small single white triangle is part of the upper floor and another room, so it is white, cuase we cant ppaint the ceiling like in TS3. That is a minor issue and can´t be changed, even after use of the trim tool, the lower part will stay white, unless we use a mod to change that. Such a mod exists but it changes all ceilings from white into one choosen appearance. No variations possible sadly.
    Post edited by eufl on
  • DeanXeLDeanXeL Posts: 289 Member
    @eufl I had no problem with friezes using the method I described above, either with platforms or decks( those are the ones you are referring to), however, I did not try anything too elaborate. I never 'exploded' the room, since there was no need, maybe that's why the friezes don't show up on the inside?

    You are wrong about one thing though, you actually CAN paint the platforms any wallpaper you want ;) Just surround the platform with a "half wall", make sure this half wall is only the size of your platform, not higher, and your stairs will still be usable! I have used this method a few times like this, thoroughly tested it and it poses no problems considering functionality. The only part that cannot be painted at will is then the half wall trim, but I found that to be less annoying than the entire walls of the platform.

    0EuWHlN.png

    This method does not work when you use the platforms by themselves as 'stairs', the walls, without staircase, will prevent sims from stepping on them, you need to place a staircase in front.
  • eufleufl Posts: 64 Member
    edited March 2021
    @DeanXeL , this is a really wonderful advice, thanks a lot! There is always a way, one only has to find it! B)

    And the other thing: As far as I understand, any room, that has no ceiling, is "exploded". It will count towards the outside of a building, even if there is some floor and a roof above, and even if the game counts this "exploded" room as interior in terms of weather...
    I call rooms that way, as soon, as they show the outside wallpaper or frieses or trims on the inside. But I have to admit, that I still don´t know exactly, what causes this to happen, if it´s not the missing ceiling. For example, if you build a porch, and you use the room tool first, and this porch has a ceiling, you can´t build a frieze under it at the facade of the house. Do you destroy the ceiling, and you then have a roof on this opened/exploded porch, the frieze will follow the facade of the house, and not run around the porch anymore.
    Those things, really confuse me, and I think, I´ll still need some time to learn, how this works.
  • XinqunXinqun Posts: 612 Member
    @DeanXeL , I'm not sure I understand the point of the second step in your process. Why not just push and pull on the hole you just made? Won't a platform, if it is brought down to the same level as the floor around it, just meld with the floor the next time you go to look at it? If the objective is to obtain the three squares over the stair for the auto-delete headroom thing to work (without having a fence or spandrel to define it) then, well, I can't help but feel that that's taking advantage of a bug that may or may not disappear one day and/or cause issues further down the road.

    That thing about having to leave the three squares of floor over the stairs so the game can have a "ceiling to remove" is a new bug introduced with the platforms patch back in November. It's ruined a lot of old builds, including several premade builds that come with the game and its expansions, and they're still working on a fix for it.

    @eufl , what I mean by an "exploded room" is a space made up of discrete, independent, freestanding walls. Simple test: click on a wall. Does it select the whole room, including the floor and all the other walls attached to it? Then it's a proper room. Does it only select the one wall, and can you move the wall around without affecting any other part of the room? Then it's an exploded room.

    Why do rooms explode? Properly speaking, a room needs to have its shape defined either by the floor or by walls/fences/spandrels. If a "room" has no floor to define its shape, and if it is also not fully enclosed (ie, missing a wall/fence/spandrel so that one part of it is completely open) then its shape can really be anything. This causes the room to explode: the walls disconnect from each other and the ceiling disappears.

    I know of at least one way around this, creating a room with no floor and at least one missing wall and somehow not having it explode. Apparently, once you've made your "room with no floor", you can drop a smaller floor into it, and it works. But, as I said earlier, I feel like it's taking advantage of a bug, and I don't trust it.
  • DeanXeLDeanXeL Posts: 289 Member
    @Xinqun The second step turns your floorless walled room (step 1) into a floorless non-walled room (I made that a little more clear now I hope). The three-block add-on might is definitely not the main goal of that and might not be necessary later on, when the bug is fixed. However, it will never cause issues per se, since the staircase will always get rid of those tiles again and the method does not rely on those tiles to adhere the shape. (PS: Obviously, if you use a twisted staircase, the blocks should be positioned differently.)

    As far as the 'taking advantage of a bug' side of this -> I looked around for you a bit and found this by using some more specific search terms: https://forums.thesims.com/en_us/discussion/849804/upstairs-deleting-floor-tiles-for-stair-landing-solution
    This method (but with decks back in the day), was apparently already being used in 2015 and still works now, > 5y later :)
  • SailorCetiSailorCeti Posts: 807 Member
    edited March 2021
    DeanXeL wrote: »
    @Xinqun The second step turns your floorless walled room (step 1) into a floorless non-walled room (I made that a little more clear now I hope). The three-block add-on might is definitely not the main goal of that and might not be necessary later on, when the bug is fixed. However, it will never cause issues per se, since the staircase will always get rid of those tiles again and the method does not rely on those tiles to adhere the shape. (PS: Obviously, if you use a twisted staircase, the blocks should be positioned differently.)

    As far as the 'taking advantage of a bug' side of this -> I looked around for you a bit and found this by using some more specific search terms: https://forums.thesims.com/en_us/discussion/849804/upstairs-deleting-floor-tiles-for-stair-landing-solution
    This method (but with decks back in the day), was apparently already being used in 2015 and still works now, > 5y later :)

    Nice find. That worked. I just mocked up a four-story house doing this. I built the house, minus the central stairwell (considered open space for the moment). Then, I placed platforms in the shapes I needed on the second, third, and fourth floors. Then, I simply drew my fences and places the stairs. Afterward, I capped the roof with another platform, and replaced empty walls with "full wall", and the job was done. The test sims could go from up and down the entire staircase.

    At this point, I only have one question. Now that the ceiling is capped, will weather effects still show inside? And will the occupants get too hot/cold while in the hall?
    This game needs more Sailor Moon!

    Hold SHIFT while using the FRIEZE tool to apply it to a single wall, and not an entire room!

    ** SailorCeti's Builds **

    If you download one of my builds, by all means, leave me a message and tell me what you did and did not like about it.
  • eufleufl Posts: 64 Member
    edited May 2021
    @Xinqun , I think, we do mean the same thing here. At least I hope so, and I hope, my pictures now can proof either me understanding you right, or not... Let´s see! :)

    Now I am back with a room, that exploded (as I would describe that), and tried several ways but found no solution so far.
    The problem here is the stairway from the basement to the ground floor. This one can only be placed from the basement. And as you can see, it leads through the foundation, using a sunken platform to cover up the non existent foundation walls inside a building:


    The floor above is still pristine, there is a porch with a roof running around, the roof still appears only on the outside:



    I want to place a stacked staircase, so I need an L-shaped stair in the corner. But I can´t place it, cause there is no ground underneath. That is cause of the basement stairs. And believe me: Neither the platform nor the stairs to the basement can be built, if a stair is erected above. I tried this very often, no chance. So I have to build the basement stairs first (picture is ground floor, the basement stairs are parked outside, the sunken platform is still there):


    To place those stairs, I need a hole in the ceiling, then I can place the stairs from above. I can place an L-shaped wall there, this works but not a half wall neither a fence, the room explodes:


    I tried your way to surround the place with a platform, @DeanXeL , and the room explodes. I tried my usual thing with making a room without walls and place it in L-shape, where I want the stairs - the room explodes. Whatever I do, the room seems to get opened, cause a structure touches an outer wall.
    Then, and this was my last try or now: What would happen, if I don´t touch the walls but delete the floor as a whole? It´s this here, the room explodes again:


    Placing a floor, a room without walls, anywhere in the room, shows better, how the roof appears on the inside again:


    Any idea? I think, we´re talking about a really exiting problem. I see this as a bug, cause that should not happen. But I am sure, there must be a solution. But now I am the one, who is completely blind, I don´t see any solution at the moment...

    Btw, this is another small farmhouse for my StrangerVille expansion project, built after pictures of a real old farmhouse in Nevada.
    Post edited by eufl on
  • DeanXeLDeanXeL Posts: 289 Member
    edited March 2021
    @metaphasic I a fairly certain that like that, weather will not be an issue, however I can't test it for you, basegame and all :)

    @eufl I could have told you that about the roof clipping, it is an entirely different problem sadly. Ea programmed something that shows the roof if your room is not composed of full walls (it is not an exploded room, just not a completely closed off one. However, as soon as you add any half walls, platforms or fences, you get that problem of clipping. The rooms are still proper rooms though. It happens when you connect a non-full-wall to the outer wall of the building. So yes staircase gaps do that, but just connect a regular fence to the outer wall, same thing. Add a platform, same thing... It's a bug or bad programming, but this has been reported already afaik. :)
  • eufleufl Posts: 64 Member
    edited March 2021
    DeanXeL wrote: »
    @eufl I could have told you that about the roof clipping... ...It's a bug or bad programming, but this has been reported already afaik. :)

    Ah, okay, so I don´t have to wonder about this phenomen. Lucky me found a solution around this thing by adding a small corridor in the upper floor, that leads to now four rooms there. I had the same problem with the hall of my sheriff´s station, where I also shrinked the room around the stairs, so that no roof parts could clip through walls into the room anymore.
  • SailorCetiSailorCeti Posts: 807 Member
    DeanXeL wrote: »
    @metaphasic I a fairly certain that like that, weather will not be an issue, however I can't test it for you, basegame and all :)


    No need. I can do that myself. I was just curious if anyone knew already.
    This game needs more Sailor Moon!

    Hold SHIFT while using the FRIEZE tool to apply it to a single wall, and not an entire room!

    ** SailorCeti's Builds **

    If you download one of my builds, by all means, leave me a message and tell me what you did and did not like about it.
  • madeamadea Posts: 1 New Member
    @DeanXeL - do you happen to have a video? I'm getting a bit confused at the last step. Thanks so much!
  • DeanXeLDeanXeL Posts: 289 Member
    edited May 2021
    @madea I'm sorry, I don't have a video. If you really need it, I can make one for you tomorrow before work (have to leave in about 15 minutes). But I made you some pictures I think will help.
    1) Let's say we want to have the entire lower right corner open around this staircase
    dPqOja9.png
    2) We have to remove the floor in the entire space and replace it all around the staircase in the upper left, upper right ad lower left area. PLUS, because of the bug introduced in the last patch, we have to add the tiles that the staircase 'removes' by placing it. In this picture you can see the edged of the platform around the staircase to where I extended the platform. You can also see the staircase removes the floor there. (I believe this was the step that confused you?)
    eay2EUY.png
    3) By then lowering the platform to normal room height, the staircase fully integrates with the floorless area and is fully functional. Fences can be placed if you like. If you were to remove the staircase, you would see that floor appears where the staircase used to be, since you put it there in step 2)
    vgWqCZL.png

    Please let me know if you need further explanation or instructions! :)
  • gettpsgettps Posts: 420 Member
    This does not work.
  • DeanXeLDeanXeL Posts: 289 Member
    @gettps then you most likely did something not quite right, I did make more clear and complete guide here: https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/17893949/#Comment_17893949
  • gettpsgettps Posts: 420 Member
    edited June 2021
    Yea, that didn't make sense either.

    Unfortunately your method of "describing" the problem is EXTREMELY bad. It's completely nonsensical, contradicting, and doesn't even read as english in places.

    You can't have "open space" on stairs? How can you NOT have open space on stairs? You put down stairs, it opens the space for the stairs. That's HOW they work.

    You refer to Parts 1 and 2 but don't label Parts 1 and 2 so we have no idea what you're talking about.

    You never describe what this "exploded" room is in the first place or what causes it. I've read through three entire "solutions" to this problem and NONE of them even describe what the problem IS in the first place. Some talk about the problem being that putting down a stairs over a fence doesn't remove the fence and they can't route. Some talk about ceilings not getting removed on lower levels? Your has this psychotic "exploded" room type... Can't figure out which is right.

    You describe area in red. You have multiple pictures with red and blue. Is it picture 1? 2? 3?, wouldn't help because you don't label the pictures in the first place.

    You describe the fix for scenario 1 then switch to 2, and back to 1, back to 2... so much I lose place quickly.

    The pictures are bad. Taken different times on different builds.... some have straight stairs, some with multi-directional stairs rotated at different angles, right next to each other like they're referring to the same thing but that's not possible on different builds...

    It's just BAD.

    Basically, it comes down to this... It's broken. If anyone has a "solution" to this, noone has the skills to describe the "fix". Heck, I'd write one if I could just figure out the fix in the first place.

    I'm just going to DELETE all second floors everywhere until they actually fix this in the game. Can't have broken staircases if there aren't any staircases.
  • DeanXeLDeanXeL Posts: 289 Member
    edited June 2021
    @gettps I am sorry, English is my third language, so it is possible that it is not always as good as you would want.

    You can not have already removed floor on stairs. The stairs have to remove their own floor tiles for them to work. I'm not sure why this is the case either, but hence, the open loft has to be build around the stairs, not including them...

    An exploded room - as I did mention - is basically 'outside' it is NOT a room, just a gap, as it were. I also mentioned it is caused by removing a wall/fence (or piece of a wall/fence) from a room without a floor. A not fully enclosed room without a floor is not a room at all -> gap/empty space/exploded room

    Every sequence of pictures is taken in the exact same build, one for the fenced loft (labeled 1)) two adhering rooms for the non-fenced loft (labeled 2)), one to explain the exploded loft (labeled 3)) and finally a last one to explain platform lofts (labeled 4)). I get that the non-fenced one can be difficult, but the fenced loft should be fairly straightforward and I don't refer to multiple pictures there.

    Whether or not you use it is up to you.
    Edit: would a video help, you think, or not? I am really not comfortable with videos, but if it is the only way, i will make one.
    Post edited by DeanXeL on
  • gettpsgettps Posts: 420 Member
    edited June 2021
    @DeanXeL

    Wonderful, another theory as to why its happening. This makes what... 5 now?

    Testing...

    Nope. That's not it either. Whether the floor is there or not when creating the stairs makes absolutely NO difference at all.

    If I delete the floor, create the stairs, it doesn't work.
    If I leave the floor, create the stairs, then delete the rest of the floor, it doesn't work.

    If I use "platforms" as your document instructs, and delete the floor, then it works, but it's now covered with Platforms and looks even worse. If I then delete the platforms, I end up with your "Exploded" room and I have to delete everything and start over.

    If at any point I click "Remove floor", I end up with either a broken room, or the stairs don't work.
    Post edited by gettps on
  • DeanXeLDeanXeL Posts: 289 Member
    edited June 2021
    @gettps

    By deleting the floor, even after placement, the stairs still can't create their own gap, so it doesn't work.

    I made you a video with explanation now (18h39) and better quality than the previous:
    https://youtu.be/FowpM-3Gdnc
    Even if it is just to show you (and other people visiting this thread) it does work... It's not fair to claim it doesn't.

    edit: screencapture doesn't show the tools or the bubble above the sims head for some reason... I will make a better video soon with the tools visible and some explanation as I go perhaps...
    Post edited by DeanXeL on
  • gettpsgettps Posts: 420 Member
    So THAT's what fixes it? Just create a "platform" in the open space of the stairs?

    Why go through all that junk in the other post, pages and pages of stuff when it's just "replace the open space with a platform".

    So, all that about the "exploded" room, surrounding it with platforms, fences, is meaningless. I just tried it with an exploded room and it STILL worked.

    Granted, the "exploded" room is still a problem, but has absolutely nothing to do with the stairs routing issue. Everything else is just going to confuse it all.

    Just create a platform in the space of the stairs and lower it to floor level. That's it. The stairs will cause the platform to vanish and constrain it to its own cell separate from the rest of the missing floor.

    Thanks for the solution. Even IF I had to wade through months of junk to get there... Now I have something to work with to help others with the same problem.
  • SailorCetiSailorCeti Posts: 807 Member
    I'm sorry @DeanXeL, but this doesn't work when doing stacked stairs in a three story home. Second floor to Third works fine, or just First to second. But the minute you add a third story it still blows up. The problem seems to be the second floor. Mostly because you cannot make a full enclosure with the fencing. You have to leave one tile open for the bottom of the next stairs (they don't go through like the top does). This explodes the room and bam, back to square one.
    This game needs more Sailor Moon!

    Hold SHIFT while using the FRIEZE tool to apply it to a single wall, and not an entire room!

    ** SailorCeti's Builds **

    If you download one of my builds, by all means, leave me a message and tell me what you did and did not like about it.
  • DeanXeLDeanXeL Posts: 289 Member
    edited June 2021
    @SailorCeti did you check the video? If you drag a platform through the fence in that place (much like you would do for the 'difficult' version, then lower it, you can place the stairs, cause the fence is gone. I made double lofts like this before. You can also use the entire fenceless loft and build fence after.

    In the text I did warn multiple times about sledgehammering or ctrl+removing fence, I didn't do that in the video though...
  • SailorCetiSailorCeti Posts: 807 Member
    DeanXeL wrote: »
    @SailorCeti did you check the video? If you drag a platform through the fence in that place (much like you would do for the 'difficult' version, then lower it, you can place the stairs, cause the fence is gone. I made double lofts like this before. You can also use the entire fenceless loft and build fence after.

    In the text I did warn multiple times about sledgehammering or ctrl+removing fence, I didn't do that in the video though...

    Yes. I watched it several times. It just doesn’t work on my install. I think one reason is that both of the platforms needed for the empty space (not the ones for the stairs) are exactly the same shape. So the “room” on the middle is now without floor OR ceiling and it merges with the surrounding room.
    This game needs more Sailor Moon!

    Hold SHIFT while using the FRIEZE tool to apply it to a single wall, and not an entire room!

    ** SailorCeti's Builds **

    If you download one of my builds, by all means, leave me a message and tell me what you did and did not like about it.
  • DeanXeLDeanXeL Posts: 289 Member
    @SailorCeti you could have a point, maybe the specific design I used worked and yours doesn't or something else goes wrong... Tell me what loft you want (picture?) And let me get back to you in an hour, I'm having breakfast now ;)
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