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What is Gameplay to you?
keekee53
Posts: 4,328 Member
I often read a lot of threads where people are saying there is not enough gameplay or they need to add more gameplay in packs. I have seen some examples but most of the time there is no real explanation behind the comment. So I decided to ask the question. I think it will help the devs understand what we are looking for from the game.
I will start...
For me, gameplay starts at the core. The core of the Sims is in the title. The Sims themselves. We have gotten off track and there has been too much focus on builds, beautiful worlds and CAS. When I look back on Sims 2, I really enjoyed the game because of the Sims themselves. My sims felt unique because there were many factors affecting their personality whether they were neat or sloppy, active or inactive or even mixed. Next thing that added uniqueness were interests. Did they like talking about money or politics, crime or love and conversations were affected between sims whose interests did not line up? Later the attraction system was added which added another layer of uniqueness to the sim.
The skiing, vacations, adventures, school, bands, fame, new worlds, will all feel the same as long as we are relying on the same 10 emotion system\moodlet system. The sims need more depth and more animation. EX: When a sim is telling another sim the big news of pregnancy, the sim should have an excited animation if they are happy or sulk animation or even a cry if they are not happy. Not a moodlet saying they are happy about the big news. It is the little things that make the game so much more. I spend more time imagining a reaction than seeing one and that is sad.
I will start...
For me, gameplay starts at the core. The core of the Sims is in the title. The Sims themselves. We have gotten off track and there has been too much focus on builds, beautiful worlds and CAS. When I look back on Sims 2, I really enjoyed the game because of the Sims themselves. My sims felt unique because there were many factors affecting their personality whether they were neat or sloppy, active or inactive or even mixed. Next thing that added uniqueness were interests. Did they like talking about money or politics, crime or love and conversations were affected between sims whose interests did not line up? Later the attraction system was added which added another layer of uniqueness to the sim.
The skiing, vacations, adventures, school, bands, fame, new worlds, will all feel the same as long as we are relying on the same 10 emotion system\moodlet system. The sims need more depth and more animation. EX: When a sim is telling another sim the big news of pregnancy, the sim should have an excited animation if they are happy or sulk animation or even a cry if they are not happy. Not a moodlet saying they are happy about the big news. It is the little things that make the game so much more. I spend more time imagining a reaction than seeing one and that is sad.
11
Comments
I could have cried reading this, this is exactly what we need back into the game - a personality. For me, "gameplay" is simply just storytelling and having my Sims live their lives, however everything in this game seems so linear and follows the same path, no matter what traits or careers my Sim has.
We are in desperate need of a proper personality system in this game such as likes/dislikes, favourites, interests, attractions. I would say a personality for Sims is the key to unlocking far more gameplay for us.
Agreed. Any addition to the game will feel one note until they fix the sims themselves.
Still, I definitely think gameplay is so much more than animations tied to skill. That's part of it for sure, but there needs to be depth behind it. How does that skill affect their personality? Their relationships? Their chance of success/failure? Their mood? Etc. The reason why I feel like a pack such as Spa Day isn't really offering much gameplay is because it's just animations tied to objects which really only offer our Sims a moodlet. Same thing with Snowy Escape. What value does skiing and snowboarding really provide our Sim other than a simple skill number?
The Sims 2 is often held in high regard because the development team knew these things already. They really went above and beyond with virtually everything they did, even with the constraints placed by trying to develop a life sim around the early/mid 2000s.
But again, I think the key thing is TS2 developers knew gameplay was more than just animations tied to objects; it's also the substance behind those visuals. When you see packs like Island Living, $40 retail, advertising watching your Sim go on a sail boat from point A to B in a pond-sized "ocean" as gameplay, you know Maxis is doing something wrong.
I never really took note of whether the Sims have unique personalities or not (too busy doing fun activities), but I would like to have likes/dislikes, favourites, interests, and hobbies for my Sims. So long as I can choose what they are.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCaj9o4hycNSPy8U1Ip0OCFA/videos
1) gameplay that is more interactive (not big on watching my sims do stuff)
2) autonomy/behavior that is more varied/distinct and maybe just in general, a bit less hyper. by that I mean, like, sims don't necessarily need to be jumping around doing something hyperactive constantly if they are simulating real life. real people are not on the move all the time. they do uninteresting human things like sit and think, get distracted, take their sweet time to get to something. And yet, some are more hyper than others and more restless in general. Having more of a range of behavior in this kind of way would probably go a long way in making sims more distinct.
1) feeling of unique personalities (through different traits, wants, different reactions to what happens to them & autonomy actions, favorites)
2) more interactions & various functional objects, activities that differ more
3) more storyprogression around you (feeling like npcs are also livng lives, go to work, to school at their respective hours)
4) immersion (car pools, school buses, more activity in your neighbours, service npcs, etc.)
My gameplay blog - kindred sims
This is as true for communication between different Sims as it is for reacting to a Sim's experience.
Things that were a viral part of why Sims formerly felt so unique are:
- interests
- attraction system
- favourites (color/food/etc)
- memories
- dislikes
- fears
- meaningful whims
- unique animations tied to all of the above - it really doesn't make a difference to have a ton of different interactions if enthuse about favourite author uses the exact same animation as enthuse about the new app your Sim just created,
and - for me first and foremost:
- the whim system being used to affect a Sim's overall feeling. I hardly ever bought something fot the aspiration points in the Sims 2, but the fact that a Sim was feeling better when he had fulfilled his whims and not fulfilled any fears - and of course the opposite - and this status being open to changes anytime was what made the game for me. That also was one reason why I never was happy with TS 3.
TS4 is so aggressively benign that the Sims' personalities have been scrubbed clean and there is no conflict between opposing personality types -- which was one of my favorite types of challenges within the game.
Unfortunately, the series has evolved from a game into something that is more of a digital dollhouse. Unfortunately, it took a long time for me to realize that it is that way by design and that it is never going to change.
That's it for me.
I am really disappointed in Whims. Sentiments would have been a perfect opportunity to bring back whims in a better way.
Sims now feel these sentiments, now what do they want to do about it? A whim should show what they want to do about it.
Instead I have to role-play it:
Sim A made Sim B happy. Sim B now want to repay that with a gift. Or send them a happy text which will in-turn spawn an invite to go out.
I recently put in some chemistry and attraction mods. This what the game should have been like from the beginning.
I wrote about some interesting incidents that I experienced after installing my mods.
Copying them over:
I did put in a mod called Have more personality please.
I swear EA must have created NPC socials to be as boring as possible, because since installing this mod, sims are pulling socials that I have never seen them pull before. Maybe they only pull a few base-game socials.
Probably some of them should be blacklisted, but you do have some funny situations and instead of boring routines.
While my sims were in their college prep dorm (not University), someone must have dared Olivia to go Streaking. She rose to the challenge.
I mean it was funny, but whoever the sim was that dared her to do it, that kind of stuff should be in their nature to do so.
All these game features should combine in interesting and surprising ways.
That's what I consider emergent game play.
Yes, that is a good one. I do miss the surprises that came with Sims 2. I have had some crazy things happen to me in that game. In this game, nothing ever alters my sims lives unless I make something happen.
The tuning could be done as a commodity that gets affected with every whim fulfilled.
If there were any accessible tuning files for the effect of whims, I would have modded it myself, but sadly the whim system is hardly accessible.
LACKING DEPTH SIMS 4
I think that one big thing with the lack of depth comes from the sims shallow personalities. The traits needs to be fixed and I also think that we need a foundation to the personality like a temperament system (point system like in sims 1 & 2) in addition to the traits. A sim should be able to have a temperament of being more or less (e.g.) Introvert / Extrovert but also have traits like: easily-impressed, snob, hot-headed.
PERSONALITY IMPROVEMENTS
1. Add a section for diet (+1 slot: Omnivore / Vegetarian / Vegan)
2. Attraction system + Favorites/Dislikes + Talents/Inabilities (hobby system) would be great add ons to the game.
3. Add a Temperaments system (point system) as an addition to the existing trait system. It could be a scale of 1-10 (sims 1 & 2) or just a scale of 1-6 (E.g: 1. Very Sensitive 2. Sensitive 3. A little sensitive => 4. A little Rational 5. Rational 6. Very rational).
1. SENSITIVE - RATIONAL
*Faster increasing skills: Creativity skills, Pet skills, Life skill
*Increased performance in following careers: Therapist, Doctor, creative careers
*Decreased performance in following careers: Detective, Law, Military, Secret agent
*Easier to gain sentiments
*Easier to get the "shared sadness" moodlet (from seeing a loved one suffer, sentiments system)
*Collects higher negative life points from negative experiences LIFE STRUGGLES PACK
*Collects higher positive life points from positive experiences LIFE STRUGGLES PACK
RATIONAL (6-10)
*Faster increasing skills: Logic skills
*Increased performance in following careers: Detective, Law, Military, Secret agent
*Decreased performance in following careers: Therapist, creative careers
*Harder to gain sentiments
*Harder to get the "shared sadness" moodlet (from seeing a loved one suffer, sentiments system)
*Collects lower negative life points from negative experiences LIFE STRUGGLES PACK
*Collects lower positive life points from positive experiences LIFE STRUGGLES PACK
LIFE STRUGGLES PACK
*If having a very “negative childhood” +high point in SENSITIVE = risk of developing Sensitive maniac trait (van Gogh)
*If having a very “negative childhood” +high points in RATIONAL = risk of developing Rational maniac trait (mad scientist/John Nash)
*Decreased performance in following careers: Entertainer, Comedian, Actor
*Faster decreasing energy bar around unknown/acquaint sims
*Slower decreasing social bar
*Intovert moodlets: Overwhelmed introvert (decreasing energy bar, from socalization), Shy (harder to socialize with unknown sims)
*Higher risk of getting the Social anxious moodlet (when low points in Self-Esteem) LIFE STRUGGLES PACK
*More negative feelings/moodlets around new/unknown sims
*Tend to get less/no whims about parties/social events/getting to know new sims/attention
*Tend to get more fears (whims) about making a fool of themselves/social embaressment/to be in the centrum of attention
CAS Traits only available for INTROVERT: Loner
CAS Traits not available for INTROVERT: Outgoing
EXTROVERT
*Increased performance in following careers: Entertainer, Comedian, Actor
*Faster increasing skill: Charisma
*Slower decreasing energy bar around unknown/acquaint sims.
*Faster decreasing social bar
*Extrovert moodlets: Exited extrovert
*Easier to socialize with new sims
*More positive feelings/moodlets around new/unknown sims
*Tend to get more whims about parties/social events/getting to know new sims
CAS Traits only available for EXTROVERT: Outgoing
CAS Traits not available for EXTROVERT: Loner
*Faster increasing skills: Creativity skills, Comedy skills
*Increased performance in following careers: Creative careers, Babysitter career (part time job)
*More often playful and inspired emotion/moodlets
*Faster Bored or Tensed when performing serious actions (e.g. studying)
*More whims with playful actions, less whims with serious actions
CAS Traits only available for PLAYFUL: Goofball
SERIOUS(6-10)
*Slower increasing skills: Creativity skills, Comedy skill
*Decreased performance in in following careers: Creative careers, Babysitter career (part time job)
*Increased performance in following careers: Astronaut, Business, Detective, Law, Salary person, Politician
*Easier to fail with jokes
*Easier to get other sims gain the moodlet “bored” from a conversation with your sim
*Easier for other sims to gain the sentiment “reliable” about your sim (=easier to convince someone)
*Slower Bored or Tensed when performing serious actions (e.g. studying)
*Increased fun bar from performing serious actions (e.g. studying)
*More whims with serious actions, less whims with playful actions
CAS Traits not available for SERIOUS: Goofball
*Tend to change their whims (positive & negative) more often
*More impulsive whims
*Can become tensed when sedentary for a longer period of time
*Tends to get more smaller whims with smaller rewards
*Faster Bored when performing repetitive actions / from repetative interaction & conversation
*Faster Bored with long-spun actions (e.g. short attention span, bored when doing a homework that take a long time to do).
*Will autonomously do more impulsive actions and jump through different actions (doing some homework ->now playing a game on the phone -> now start learning this new skill /etc)
*Harder to get and remain Focused from actions (e.g. playing chess)
*Impulsive moodlets: Excited!
* Easier to get the moodlet Life feels meh (+1 Bored and Decreasing Meaningfulness points).
*Rapidly changing temperament: Tend to more easily become agitated/excited/scared/etc, and more mood swings
REFLECTIVE (6-10)
*Tend to change (refresh) their whims (positive & negative) less often (will stick with their whims for a longer period of time)
* Will be able to see one/several of the tasks from the Quest want before accepting the quest
*Less/no impulsive whims
*Tend to get more “bigger” whims with bigger rewards
*Easier to get Focused from actions (e.g. playing chess)
*Will autonomously stick with their routines (no new impulsive actions), will stick with their actions for longer periods of time
*Smooth/even temperament: less mood swings and "freak outs"
*A persistent sim that failing with a Quest want or a whim that you have locked (=by removing it or by completing the opposite fear) will get a bigger decrease in Self Esteem points and Meaningsfulness points and tend to get the same whim instant afterwards
*Bigger increased Meaningsfulness points when completing a Quest want or a whim that you have locked
*Decreased Meaningsfulness points when failing with a new years resolution (SEASONS EP).
CAS Traits only available for PERSISTENT: Ambitious
CAS Traits not available for PERSISTENT: Lazy
UNMOTIVATED(6-10) (Example: Bob Panncake!)
*Smaller loss in Meaningsfulness points when failing with a Quest want or a whim that you have locked
*If you have a Quest want or a whim that you have locked for a longer period of time without completing it => the sim will get the negative moodlet LET ME GO! and tend to get whims with: UNLOCK THE WANT! / LET ME GO! (=> urging to the player, because of low motivation)
CAS Traits only available for UNMOTIVATED: Lazy
CAS Traits not available for UNMOTIVATED: Ambitious
4. LIFE STRUGGLES PACK
Collect Negative & Positive points from life experiences and develop Childhood traits & Life traits (e.g. Narcissistic, Naive, Spolied, Unlucky). Develop and remember Struggles and life experiences. Negative / Positive / Neutral childhood. Therapy +active Healer / Therapist career (return of the therapist from sims 2!). Self-Esteem system and Meaningfulness system (similiar to the aspiration system in sims 2).
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/986200/life-struggles-pack-updates-sims-4-memory-system-consequences-wants-fears-personality-overhaul
5. MEMORY SYSTEM + MEMORY MOODLETS
Sims are now going to remember their memories and will at random get a moodlet with the memory (eg. ”Simsis was born”) that have the same moodlet as back then (e.g. “+1 happy”). This moodlet will give them the interaction to "share memory" with other sims that are included in the memory (e.g. parents can share a memory of a child birth). This will make the other sim remember = trigger their memory moodlet.
*Green X = Positive memory from: positive sentiments/events (positive life/childhood points).
*Red X = Negative memory from: negative sentiments/events (negative life/childhood points
*Yellow X = Redefined memory (earlier positive memory that has changed temporarily after gaining a negative sentiment, will give a negative moodlet)
*Orange with a “!”-symbol!X = a Struggle LIFE STRUGGLES PACK
*Golden with a “!”-symbol!X = a treated Struggle LIFE STRUGGLES PACK
*No met mystery sim or visited the park/library/shop -kind of memories
*Focus on bigger events instead: had a baby (name of the baby), got married / divorced, become best friend with (sim_name), got scholarship (and which), got a job / retired (which career), had a negative / positive / neutral childhood LIFE STRUGGLES PACK, had a million simoleans, become boyfriend/girlfriend, etc...
LIFE STRUGGLES PACK
I think sims 4 is often lacking gameplay because there are too little game features in it. It´s too much of playing with dolls. Yeah I understand that you can make up your own story in your head… but that’s the problem, it’s just in your head and doesn’t affect the game. I really want more game features, challenges and consequences when I play (and an option to toggle this on/off for those who want that kind of game).
GAMEPLAY IMPROVEMENTS
I really agree @83bienchen on what you say about the sims 2 system. Whims should be affecting your sims overall wellbeing not just give you points. Why not implement a Meaningfullness system and a Self-esteem system in sims 4? Maybe something similar to the sims 2 aspiration system, but updated? Fulfill positive / negative whims (want & fears) and gain / lose Meaningfullness points + Self-esteem points. A low / high Meaningfullness bar & Self-esteem bar will give your different moodlets and consequences.
1. MEANINGFULNESS SYSTEM
Similar to the aspiration bar in sims 2. Fulfill positive / negative whims (want & fears) and gain / lose Meaningfullness points + Self-esteem points. Each Meaningfulness level will give your sim specific moodlets.
1. Prosperous (positive moodlet +2, Constant and slow increase in Self-esteem points, different positive moodlets)
2. Satisfied (positive moodlet +1)
3. Ok
4. Down (negative moodlet -1)
5. Distressed (negative moodlet -2, Risk of getting mental break-downs, Risk of getting the negative Fundamental moodlet (will last a few days, can´t be removed and affects all your other moodlets): Depressed = lower the effect of all positive moodlets, constant and slow decrease in Self esteem, reduces energy bar faster, getting exhausted from work out faster, lower learning abilities and shorter times with focus).
2. SELF ESTEEM SYSTEM
Similar to the reputation system (Get Famous, uses the same design).
Self-esteem, high level (1-3): believe in their ability, easier to get promoted, easier to socialize, more positive emotions/moodlets, faster increase of Meaningfulness points).
Self-Esteem, low level (5-7): often doubt their ability, harder to get promotions, harder to socialize, more negative moodlets/emotions (shame/embarrassed about their self, anxiety, insecure), faster decrease in Meaningfulness points), risk of getting negative Fundamental moodlets (will last a few days, can´t be removed and affects all your other moodlets): Anxious or Self-Doubt.
1. Hubris
2. Proud
3. Good Self-esteem
4. Ok
5. Low Self-Esteem
6. Dissatisfied
7. Self-contempt
3. UPDATED WHIMS (WANTS & FEARS) + QUEST WANTS
2. Both negative & positive whims (want & fears)
3. Whims affecting Satisfaction points + Self Esteem system + Meaningfulness system
4. Whims from Sentiments / Relationships / Lifestyles / Hobbies system / Attraction system / Favorites & Dislikes
5. Whims from a chosen Life direction (lifelong aspiration that can be changed at any time) +Quest want:
You can have up to 3 different directions (aspirations) ongoing at the same time. The directions will give your sim negative & positive whims (want & fears), complete and gain / lose Satisfaction points + Meaningfullness points + Self-esteem points. You will also get an button for a Quest want. Click on this button to get assigned to a quest (the quest is based upon your chosen directions, is time limited and include several tasks). At the end of your sims lifetime, their tombstone will show what direction your sims found as most important (what directions their mostly picked) and what direction your sim was mostly successful in. You can change your sims directions at any time.
Pick 3 directions from following categories:
(They can all be from the same category or from different categories):
1. Family 2. Romantic 3. Pleasure 4. Career 5. Money 6. Popularity 7. Knowledge
8. Power 9. Hedonism 10. Goodness 11. Spiritual & Personal development
12. Health & Wellbeing 13. Vanity 14. Evilness 15. Criminality 16. Nature 17. Animals & Wildlife
18. Travel & Experiences 19. Interest & Hobbies 20. Random (you will have the possibility to choose which directions to randomize from if you don´t want all of them)
A sim that goes for a longer period of time without completing any...
*Whims will get the moodlet Life feels meh (+1 Bored and Decreasing Meaningfulness points).
*Quest wants will get the moodlet No direction in life (+1 Tensed and Decreasing Meaningfulness points).
FROM THE LIFE STRUGGLES PACK (Self Esteem system & Meaningfulness system)
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/986200/life-struggles-pack-updates-sims-4-memory-system-consequences-wants-fears-personality-overhaul
4. PERK POINTS & REWARDS
One thing that I like with the Perk points is that it’s a game feature. The problem with the perk system is that you after a while will end up with an a lot of useless perk points when all rewards / perks are bought. (I still haven’t found out what you do with your influence points after you activated 4 NAPs???). I think that when they add something like the perks system they also need to make it into a circular system where you always can make use of your points (like with the satisfaction points = you can always buy an emotion / increase needs potion for your sim or give away as a gift).
5. SCOUT BADGES SYSTEM
I do really like the scout badges system (SEASONS EP) for some occasions. This could be used in something like an Education pack (grades system for Regular school / Home schooling).
LIFE STRUGGLES PACK
For me personally I am just disappointed in the content the Sims 4 team puts out. I feel like each new expansion or pack or kit is only playable for a few hours and is a cash grab. I found myself so disappointed in the games that I was spending so much money on these expansion with the mindset of “oh, this will make the game better,” but after a few hours it returned to being unplayable for me.
I honestly uninstalled the Sims 4 and just decided to pick it back up once the gameplay has been fixed or just completely drop it and wait and see what Sims 5 can offer. This is really disappointing to me because I really want to support the Sims franchise. I started playing the original Sims (some people call it Sims 1) when I was seven years old, and my sisters and I use to save up our allowance to purchase each expansion and new Sims games as they came out. But for me I’m just not getting anything out of the Sims 4 and I just can’t spend anymore time and money on it.