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More representation of indigenous cultures?

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  • SharoniaSharonia Posts: 4,853 Member
    Not meaning to be offensive here but personally I'd rather they focus on improving the game play rather than focusing on inclusivity and representation all the time. None of this was needed in previous iterations of the Sims and people still managed to enjoy the games.
  • drakharisdrakharis Posts: 1,478 Member
    The other day I noticed one of the new necklaces for female Sims has a colour option that is the same as the Australian Aboriginal flag, it got me wondering if perhaps there should be more indigenous representation in the Sims, or if it was something that was just too much risk of getting way wrong (like having Sims wearing first nation head dressed Coachella style, or female Sims being able to play a digeridoo).

    What do others think, is more indigenous representation something EA should strive for, or is there just too much of a risk that it wouldn't be done right and would end up being tokenistic or insulting to indigenous cultures? Is this something better left to the CC and Mod creators?

    I apologize for sounding like I'm pulling the race card or screaming racist and being the c-word I cannot say on the forums without the moderators and Gurus giving me a warning on language. That is not my intent but rather an observation made from my point of view and simply my opinion. This is not meant to offend but hopefully raise more awareness of what is lacking with diversity. Even though I'm happy steps have been made to make more cultures, ethnicities, races and lifestyles inclusive in the game. I accept that the Native American side of my heritage will never be represented not even through the efforts of appearing stereotypical and accidentally offending.

    I have been saying this for a while that everybody needs to have representation as an option if they choose. This month in America it's National Native American Heritage Month. As much as I accept that unless you are a minority that the sims team cares about that minority will never be represented. Maybe it's out of sheer ignorance of the culture, ethnicity and races. Maybe they feel that only certain minorities matter and that diversity means cultures people might have a lawsuit over if that culture, ethnicity or race isn't even represented (even if it's mispresented, poorly represented, stereotypical or even offends people of that race culture or ethnicity). They might feel there aren't enough Indigenous people to profit off of adding to the game which claims and prides itself on diversity. How can you have true diversity when somebody is left out and doesn't have the option to make a person of their lifestyle, culture, ethnicity or race as an option.

    I don't think Indigenous people throughout the world will ever be represented except through CC and mods custom presets etc. Unless the sims team feels that they will be sued and with their pants down has to do a quick fix on "not offending" anybody and add in Indigenous People the sims. Meaning an Aborigine or somebody who is part of the Indigenous People of the Amazon or America/Canada's First People or another Indigenous people on Spark'd and cannot make themselves in the sims and they raise a stink about it followed by the White Game Changers who raise awareness over it. It's all about making the money and not getting into any pesky lawsuits over false claims of diversity.

    Again I apologize for sounding harsh cynical and mean but I'm simply stating through observation and opinion.
    Playtesting - not just tabletop games and card games any more. Really that should have been playtested in Beta and not [img]just with accounting and marketing but actual players. https://i.imgur.com/t48COW6.jpg[/img]
  • GreatestPlannerGreatestPlanner Posts: 78 Member
    edited November 2020
    I'd be interested in the following races that just popped in my head for now:

    Arabic
    Turkish (Cause very different from each other)
    Scandinavian! (plus a world would be neat)
    Russian and Balkan nations

    * Moroccan would be neat too. Love the style, houses, patterns and interior!

    For the Arabic, i'd like to see more old times middle eastern style. Clay/stone houses in the desert, primitive and simple lifestyle, open markets with fresh foods and house items, little shops owned by locals, proper clothing, cultural music, greetings, lifestyles etc.

    For Turkish, i'd like to see fun and colorful patterns, Mediterranean/Ottoman cuisine, beautiful seaside and beaches to vacation with stunning landscapes! So, more the south-west of Turkey. Natural hot springs like Pamukkale and a copy of the city Cappadochia with hot air balloons in an ancient city. Rooftop cafe's and sims being able to sit, dine and drink on colorful floor pillows.

    For Scandinavian, as said, en entire world of snow and greenery, fish markets in the harbor where fisherman sell their freshly caught fish from the lake, little cottages for rent and colorful houses on the hills for townies, IKEA style furniture and quiet evenings, shops closing early etc.

    For Russian, I'd like to see the colorful city and buildings of Moscow, well a replica of it perhaps. Sims dressed in warm winter clothing and Russian hats with more distant behavior. For other Balkan nations, new recipes, stunning green vacations spots etc.

    I went a little far here, but that's it :)


  • QueenMercyQueenMercy Posts: 1,680 Member
    I wouldn't hold my breath, they couldn't even get the Japanese one right, How about instead of during a USA themed pack why not go with a Canadian themed pack, it'll be cross between city living & outdoor retreat there'll be three types of areas, urban city residential area, a woodland forest area and a snow covered area, As a Canadian I personally wouldn't mind or be offended if the Sims team went with the usual stereotypes of my country like a lumberjack career, maple syrup themed build items, Canoes, Hunting & Canoeing skill, death by Canadian Geese, Death by Wolverine and a playable sasquatch or wendigo Occult and it'll also cover aboriginal culture too, since we didn't try to kill them when we first arrived unlike our dumb American cousins.

    I don’t think that would go over well. Vampirism is one thing, but full on cannibalism? They had to call blood “plasma” to not get an M rating, so I can’t see a way to keep cannibalism T.

    I don’t want to hear any “but this zombie movie is only A 14!” or whatever either, movies and video games are held to different standards and whether or not they should be is not a conversation that would not accomplish anything here.
  • catmando830catmando830 Posts: 9,117 Member
    I want German, Dutch and Irish.
  • alanmichael1alanmichael1 Posts: 5,384 Member
    I want German, Dutch and Irish.

    I wouldn't call me indigenous but who knows??
  • fruitsbasket101fruitsbasket101 Posts: 1,530 Member
    While I would love to see different cultures in this game I don't think it will happen. At least not to the full extent of said culture. For one, they tried to do this with the SE pack and it started a whole controversy. I don't think its a matter of not wanting or ignoring certain cultures, I think its more they don't want to offend other cultures by putting something in the game they might not fully understand is offensive.

    Yes they could easily consult people from said culture to make sure they get it right but, and this is said from my observation of this particular iteration of the game so far, when have you ever seen them take that extra step to make sure that everything is 100% accurate? While it does tend to make the game less exciting culture wise, western American culture is the safest one for them to do without offending too many people because its where the majority of the of people making the game are most familiar with.

    At the end of the day sims aren't real people. They don't have very much culture and what they do have is a completely fictional one that borrows from different real life ones and adds in llamas, freezer bunnies and a real life grim reaper. Don't even get me started on occult sims. But its easier and safer for them to borrow from what they know rather than cause a controversy over something they don't by trying to poorly include everyone.
    Have a super fantastic awesome splendid amazing day! -TheQxxn
  • IcewolfIcewolf Posts: 709 Member
    Sharonia wrote: »
    Not meaning to be offensive here but personally I'd rather they focus on improving the game play rather than focusing on inclusivity and representation all the time. None of this was needed in previous iterations of the Sims and people still managed to enjoy the games.

    Yes, I agree totally. Representation is nice but it's not really needed at this point. I'd rather just that we keep this a simple game, without feeling the need to add every real life representation into it just because.
  • AuroraskiesAuroraskies Posts: 1,834 Member
    edited November 2020
    This forum is full of demands, and more polite, wishes, of additions; based on personal wants. Representation is not something for anyone to deny someone else, and it is never not needed.

    I had to read about the wendigo, what a massively interesting concept, and very appropriate metaphor for this thread; the idea of colonialism and greed and consumption of all that isn’t part of yourself, with a complete disregard of the borders of others and their right to existence.
  • bella_gothbella_goth Posts: 1,770 Member
    edited November 2020
    i'd love some kind of native american content on the game but i can already hear the "no devs that's bad done ur racist!1!1" kind of comments.

    at this point and thanks to some people on this community, adding more cultures is just adding controversy fuel to the game. either because they take offense on the minimal feature, or because devs don't bother researching enough to not include something that could be slightly misunderstood. *ahem shrine bowing, ahem fan patterns".
  • So_MoneySo_Money Posts: 2,536 Member
    Sharonia wrote: »
    Not meaning to be offensive here but personally I'd rather they focus on improving the game play rather than focusing on inclusivity and representation all the time. None of this was needed in previous iterations of the Sims and people still managed to enjoy the games.

    💯

    Maybe they could work on pushing the gameplay forward if they spent less energy placating the masses and playing whack-a-mole with various and sundry representation demands.
  • KerriganKerrigan Posts: 1,571 Member
    Indigenous people are a sensitive subject as so many around the world are suppressed and treated with minority rights. Their cultures are really rich and beautiful(which we'd all love to see) but I can't think of one of them that would appreciate a cartoon game depicting their life or culture for a gaming company's profit with none of that money going toward their own issues.

  • KaronKaron Posts: 2,332 Member
    edited December 2020
    I would be really happy to see more native representation. I find their cultures fascinating, as I'm descended of native americans. :)

    *snip*
    DaWaterRat wrote: »
    QueenMercy wrote: »
    I wonder if it’d help if they collaborated with First Nations/Native Americans and stuck with the kind of thing they share with outsiders instead of things that are sacred. Stuff like moccasins because their crafters sell those to people nearby (though that might not be universal?)

    They would probably be better off to pick a specific nation or group of culturally similar nations and work with them rather than trying to get a "universal" Native American/First Nations inspired pack. There's a lot of variation out there.

    @DaWaterRat I more or less agree with you on this one. It would be like making a "asian" themed pack instead of a "japanese" or "south korean" themed packs, but... to me the perfect world would be the one were all nations and cultures were represented, not only indigenous, but every single one in the whole world. But its quite impossible. Disney found a way to represent all the pacific islanders at once in Moana, without offending them (besides one or two who like to pinpoint everything that bothers them). IDK, I'd be happy with either one of them. Maybe they pick one and represent another one in another pack or in Sims 5, but I would love to see something isntead of the team staying on the fence for the eternity instead of picking one option.

    (CM: Edited to remove inappropriate tangent. Please keep the forum rules and intention of thread topic in mind when posting)
    Post edited by EA_Lanna on
  • fullspiralfullspiral Posts: 14,717 Member
    This forum is full of demands, and more polite, wishes, of additions; based on personal wants. Representation is not something for anyone to deny someone else, and it is never not needed.

    I had to read about the wendigo, what a massively interesting concept, and very appropriate metaphor for this thread; the idea of colonialism and greed and consumption of all that isn’t part of yourself, with a complete disregard of the borders of others and their right to existence.

    It's soooo interesting.....and so sad.
  • KaronKaron Posts: 2,332 Member
    Icewolf wrote: »
    Sharonia wrote: »
    Not meaning to be offensive here but personally I'd rather they focus on improving the game play rather than focusing on inclusivity and representation all the time. None of this was needed in previous iterations of the Sims and people still managed to enjoy the games.

    Yes, I agree totally. Representation is nice but it's not really needed at this point. I'd rather just that we keep this a simple game, without feeling the need to add every real life representation into it just because.

    @Icewolf I'm pretty sure you're saying that because you're not the one lacking representation, darling.
  • VentusMattVentusMatt Posts: 1,028 Member
    If they did add first nation/native american representation I would hope that they consult with actual tribes and organizations to so that they get it right. It can be a little hard probably to get representation for all cause their are a lot of tribes eith different beliefs, custom, and perspectives of what is sacred and what is acceptable for outsiders.

    It just bugs me because we talk about representation in game and in the media in general but the first people in this nation are always forgotten and overlooked.
  • OceanbornAngel13OceanbornAngel13 Posts: 104 Member
    The other day I noticed one of the new necklaces for female Sims has a colour option that is the same as the Australian Aboriginal flag, it got me wondering if perhaps there should be more indigenous representation in the Sims, or if it was something that was just too much risk of getting way wrong (like having Sims wearing first nation head dressed Coachella style, or female Sims being able to play a digeridoo).

    What do others think, is more indigenous representation something EA should strive for, or is there just too much of a risk that it wouldn't be done right and would end up being tokenistic or insulting to indigenous cultures? Is this something better left to the CC and Mod creators?

    Here's a thought you might want to consider. What about creating an indigenous culture neighborhood on your own? Seriously...instead of waiting for other people to do it for you, just recreate a neighborhood full of indigenous Sims you have created yourself. Seriously...this lack of personal motivation to do things for yourselves...is this a generational thing? Why are you wasting time when you can be doing this yourself? How about a little self sufficiency and imagination here?
    You know, I don't just play The Sims 4. ^_^
  • StrawberryYogurtStrawberryYogurt Posts: 2,799 Member
    edited November 2020
    Karon wrote: »
    I more or less agree with you on this one. It would be like making a "asian" themed pack instead of a "japanese" or "south korean" themed packs, .

    You mean like the Hispanic Heritage stuff they put out people complained was majority Mexican-inspired generic things?

    Im also a miniority but I dont expect video games to represent all facets of my identity, thats why we have tools in the game to do as we please and use your creativity. More tools is a plus, but I cannot understand this hype about representation everywhere. I cannot expect everything everywhere to represent me. Its nice, but not a requirement for me to enjoy my game. EA cannot really be too specific with cultures because they get twitter cancelled but they also get grief from being safe and being generic. Id rather they give us tools and gameplay rather than 100% representation. That's not as important as gameplay to me.
    The Sims has currently lost its identity. Bring it back for TS5

    FixedCoarseFawn-max-1mb.gif

    Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
  • MasonGamerMasonGamer Posts: 8,851 Member
    edited November 2020
    If I was going to add different Cultures and Adventures to new lands, I would focus it around the legends, myths, and folklore tied to those areas. I wouldn't do anything too modern. that way you could play with the ambiguity. It has to be mostly correct but at least you could get away with incorrectness.

    But for me, I enjoy a good adventure. However I'm not just going to see New Sites. I don't just travel to go Mountain Hike in the woods, climbing, Swimming. I go for the souvenirs, the treasures, the rare Artifacts that hold value, mystery, things that can enhance gameplay.

    There's so many European worlds we could create
    England, France, Spain, Ireland (We already have Germany with Windenburg)

    I would like to Go Middle East, Like Say they did an Arabian Inspired world I would Love Arabian Architecture build & buy objects. It's the clothing that I would have to learn about because I wouldn't know what can be worn when. I just think it's all beautiful. However The Lore of that realm is Magic Lamps and Genies.

    Make the adventure worth my time. What Does my sim get for climbing to the peak of a Mountain, or what will they find in the forests, or at the bottom of the sea? In the temple of a Dense Jungle, or a Forgotten tomb under Sands of Arabia or Egypt.
    Post edited by MasonGamer on
    Realm of Magic:

    My Mood:

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  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    edited November 2020
    I want more culture period. Sims 4 is the most censored version of the Sims and I feel like they play too safe to appeal to 1950s viewpoints. It is not even like they are appealing to kids even because even kids are more mature than the Sims 4. It has come a somewhat away with including culture since release day, but still a long way to go too. Sims community is more worldwide now than it was 20 years ago and I think should appeal to Simmers everywhere not just where one part where the Gurus are because not even all the Gurus work from California but they work out of the country too. I know a lot of the Gurus are multicultural too, so would love to see more of their feedback with representing culture in future packs. I'm a deviant Simmer, so I rather them not play it safe when it comes to the Sims games especially when it is supposed to be a teen rated game, but is being treated with baby gloves compared to E for everyone games these days. In order to get better gameplay, they need to not be scared to do representation too. The two are related and there is only so much Stepford Wives Sims franchise can handle before the gameplay gets old and repetitive. I am seriously tired of only gameplay in the Sims 4 is living like a entitled university party kid who only likes to drink at bars and party without consequences. Not like their version of parties are fun anyways. I don't understand why all the objects have to be so big and not functional too. Like gameplay is the least of the concerns and Sims are only meant to look "perfect" but not being able to walk anywhere.

    Anyways I was more blunt about my request with the SimGurus recently. Pretty sure they know my feelings about it by now.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • SindocatSindocat Posts: 5,622 Member
    QueenMercy wrote: »
    But this thread is very specifically made about indigenous cultures, which are often treated very poorly in mainstream media.

    Irish culture IS indigenous. To IRELAND. Moving the goal posts after someone makes a suggestion you dislike is kind poor form.

    I still think that the poor reception of Polynesian culture as delivered in Island Living - which is precisely the kind of cultural deep dive you seem to be after - put the kibbosh on similar packs in the future. Sulani was panned for NOT being a destination world, and few commented on (or, as near as I can tell, noticed) the careful selection of cultural elements, foods, ceremonial plants, etc. from Tonga, French Polynesia, Hawai'i, Aotearoa, and elsewhere.
  • DaraviDaravi Posts: 1,135 Member
    I think it is a sensitive topic and I would rather speaks with the people than about them. Also there a lot of indigeneous tribes, and I bet it will raise a lot of discussion and disappointment too. One will always be annoyed and angry.

    I had to think a little bit about this topic and I had to do a research for satisfying my knowledge-hungry mind. For europe only the Sami still count as indigeneous, but in due of a treaty the others are called ethnic minority groups, for example like the Sorbs in Germany. They are too far developed in their lifestyle to be considered as indigeneous anymore, but still they have their own language, culture and representation. Their history is long with suppression too. Now they have the written right of protection and support of their own culture.

  • SERVERFRASERVERFRA Posts: 7,108 Member
    I'm mostly of Eastern/Western European with a little Prairie Cree Native. I don't know too much of that side of my nationality only what I've learned by a couple of my relatives & the internet.
    I would so love a North American Aboriginal Native World with the full culture.
  • Nate_Whiplash1Nate_Whiplash1 Posts: 4,085 Member
    From a business perspective, I wouldn't do it---too much of a chance for it to backfire and offend people by not getting something right. I think we should leave it to modders
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