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My confusion about "Gameplay" and the supposed lack thereof in packs

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  • AineAine Posts: 3,043 Member
    I think another good example of gameplay that I want is for instance to be able to customize community lots more - I miss being able to decide which npc's are loaded on the lot, and even BE those roles in some instances like chefs. Sims 4 could easily improve on previous versions of community lot creation by giving us more customization and options. Being able to build an apartment building with a store on the ground level, that actually works - and even own the building or the store, or both - and do it in every world that I want.

    I want to be able to live in ANY world, and use all kinds of features on pretty much ALL lots, and own them or rent them or whatever I want - even combining all the features to create new unique things. That's what gameplay is to me. Instead we get features that are locked to worlds or even lots, and it's annoying and creatively stifling.

    And do not get me started on the ALL feel good vibe all the time - if I WANT bad consequences and sad Sims that feel fear and hopelessness, then I should be able to play that. There's not enough options playstyle wise. Nothing bad is allowed - I'm not a kid. And there are ways to include bad consequences without breaking the teen rating, don't even tell me they can't.
    Allons-y!

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  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 6,439 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    Aine wrote: »
    It's pretty easy to see what people mean if you've played the previous installments. Especially Sims 2

    The assumption that people who enjoy Sims 4 can't have played the earlier games is getting old.

    1. I bought all main entries in the series on release day.
    2. I... honestly cannot remember any more immersive game play in 2, really. More detailed animations, yes. By far. But that's about it.
    3. I got bored with Sims 3 before Island Paradise came out; I stopped playing it after Supernaturals. It was just too frustrating trying to fit all lot types I wanted into one world.

    Like I said in my comment the Sims 2 and 3 had a lot more "sandbox", customizable gameplay that just made the game more replayable for tons of players. The Sims 4 doesn't have that as much and people feel restricted. It's just how it is.

    So what you're saying is that you personally prefer "sandbox" gameplay with customizability and you don't feel like you get that with Sims 4.

    There's no need to try to speak for others, I'm sure they can do that for themselves.

    @LiELF I am not trying to speak for others, I am basically trying to speak for the people I have found that agree with me and that's everything. And it is also just simple logic that watching one event happen exactly in the same way as always is in general more bland watching it unfold differently. So I think that not giving that freedom is the reason why people say the sims 4 doesn't have much replayability. I am not saying I prefer it. I am saying it's easy to understand why sandbox gameplay is more replayable than restricted gameplay.

    I am trying to solve the replayability issue and I am just sharing my theory. I am not speaking for anyone and if people don't agree I guess they will tell me, so I don't see why you have to speak for them...

    No need to get defensive. I just wondered why you don't actually speak from your own personal opinion since we're talking about variations in gameplay and it's different for everyone.

    I personally don't think sandbox gameplay is always the answer. In some cases, like building and world editing, definitely. I think Sims 4 has too much sandbox play when it comes to dictating behaviors and actions of the Sims from the player and I would prefer more individual autonomy and game behaviors to choose from that Sims will act out on their own and animate. As it is now, the Sims are kind of all the same until the player dictates the direction.
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  • alanmichael1alanmichael1 Posts: 5,384 Member
    edited November 2020
    Gameplay in TS3 Island Paradise:
    Houseboats
    Resorts
    Visible underwater diving
    Playable lifeguard career
    Mermaids
    Hidden Islands
    Kraken
    All kinds of boats
    Surfing
    Waterski

    Gameplay in TS4 Island Living:
    Mermaids
    Playable conservationist career
    Slow sailing boats, aqua gliders
    Rabit hole diving
    Rabit hole lifeguard career
    Island spirits = almost normal ghosts
    Funny sun tan (love it!)
    Village fiestas without new animations

    See the difference? There is nothing interesting to do in many TS4 packs.
  • BeardedgeekBeardedgeek Posts: 5,520 Member
    Calico45 wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    Aine wrote: »
    It's pretty easy to see what people mean if you've played the previous installments. Especially Sims 2

    The assumption that people who enjoy Sims 4 can't have played the earlier games is getting old.

    1. I bought all main entries in the series on release day.
    2. I... honestly cannot remember any more immersive game play in 2, really. More detailed animations, yes. By far. But that's about it.
    3. I got bored with Sims 3 before Island Paradise came out; I stopped playing it after Supernaturals. It was just too frustrating trying to fit all lot types I wanted into one world.

    Like I said in my comment the Sims 2 and 3 had a lot more "sandbox", customizable gameplay that just made the game more replayable for tons of players. The Sims 4 doesn't have that as much and people feel restricted. It's just how it is.

    So what you're saying is that you personally prefer "sandbox" gameplay with customizability and you don't feel like you get that with Sims 4.

    There's no need to try to speak for others, I'm sure they can do that for themselves.

    Also I find the sandbox aspect larger in Sims 4; Sims 3 after all locked you into a single map. Unless you used mods, but that argument is by default invalid since you know, mods.

    I know this was not aimed at me, but I do want to chime in as someone that has played all the main entries with pretty well all the packs. Short summary: loved Sims 1, loved Sims 2, hated Sims 3 at first and grew to love it after Pets, and with Sims 4 was disappointed but have since sort of embraced its faults and started playing different ways.

    I think 4 has better graphics, CAS, and BB than 3, however I think 3 does have the better sandbox, personalities, and live mode. To name some of the sandbox things I miss from 3: color wheel, super in depth personalities, controlling seasons, and CAW. I don't care a thing about open worlds and story progression (the latter I actively dislike), but I dislike how 4 did it, too, with half open neighborhoods. I would want open neighborhoods, then load screen to other neighborhoods and other worlds.

    However, talking specifically about sandbox elements, you cannot beat CAW. I made my own island where it was winter 3/4 of the time and I never placed a school and a bunch of urban elements to maintain seclusion. I cannot even think of doing half of that in 4, so I had to change the way I play. I have had fun with the game, but I did feel a lot of control was taken away from me. Even my favorite packs in pretty well every other entry are not anymore.

    I never used CAW, I am not a creative person that way just like I virtually never build in Sims (my latest build literally took me two weeks to finish, I am that bad at it and had to start over a number of times).
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  • OnverserOnverser Posts: 3,364 Member
    It's in comparison with the amount of gameplay packs in past games added, I think some people have made comparisons of packs that came with 3 and found you need 5 different Sims 4 packs to get all the same gameplay that you got in one singular pack back then. 4 has gameplay but as a direct comparison you definitely get a lot less gameplay for your money in 4 than you do in past games.

    Plus in some packs like Island Living the "gameplay" is literally just a pretty island world and thats about it, whereas in the Sims 3 version of the same pack you got underwater diving, houseboats, hotels, functional boats, uncharted islands to discover, an optional storyline, etc etc for the same money.
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 2,724 Member
    Sharonia wrote: »
    I don't think the Sims 4 is lacking in game play at all. I do however think that it's lacking in fun game play. The whole go here, click this, rinse and repeat until the task is done

    Funny thing is, this is exactly how 1 2 and 3 also were. That is what the Sims IS. The ghost hunter career in Sims 3? Got to lot, either vacuum small ghosts by clicking on them or talk to large ghosts. Done. Repeat next night.

    Seriously, unless I am going senile here and forget amazing stuff (I owned all of those games), that is how Sims always have been. It's not an RPG, the gameplay has never been as deep as Skyrim even. You wake up, click on toilet, click on fridge, click on shower, go to work, click on toilet, click on fridge, click on TV, click on skill raising equipment for promotion (or in Sims 2, try to juggle 200 friends, which was quite literally Hell), go to bed...

    That's it. That's Sims 1, Sims 2, 3 and 4.

    @Beardedgeek The click on TV, learn skill is the basic structure of any Sims game yes, but it isn't the focus of the game anymore since The Sims 1 because we are supposed to play with more than just needs and skills.

    I think @Calico45 even mentioned the Sims 3 features exactly that she thinks were more immersive, fun and not the same old click this etc. but you didn't quote these.
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • BeardedgeekBeardedgeek Posts: 5,520 Member
    Gameplay in TS3 Island Paradise:
    Houseboats
    Resorts
    Visible underwater diving
    Playable lifeguard career
    Mermaids
    Hidden Islands
    Kraken
    All kinds of boats
    Surfing
    Waterski

    Gameplay in TS4 Island Living:
    Mermaids
    Playable conservationist career
    Slow sailing boats, aqua gliders
    Rabit hole diving
    Rabit hole lifeguard career
    Island spirits = almost normal ghosts
    Funny sun tan (love it!)
    Village fiestas without new animations

    See the difference? There is nothing interesting to do in many TS4 packs.

    If the difference is " a few fewer things" then sure. This, however, is far from "no gameplay".
    Origin ID: A_Bearded_Geek
  • stilljustme2stilljustme2 Posts: 25,082 Member
    RavenSpit wrote: »
    I get it for some things like the mentioned SV storyline but others I don't really understand either.
    In the end I feel it is up to the individual playstyle, I play rotationally and have different backstories and characters for my sims, I like to call my way of playing as "character driven", since I do not really play out a story but rather what fits each character.
    So when I go on vacation with household X they'll do different stuff than household Y , or they will do the same stuff but go about it different ways....that is what adds the replayability to me.
    It's hardly ever a "one time and done" and I do not rush through things either.

    Gameplay itself is also more to me than just "gameplay objects", which again is dependent on playstyle, I enjoy all parts of the game, CAS and BB are as much a part of gameplay to me as livemode, but I get that this is not the same with every player.

    Now, I am not saying that I can't see a lack of gameplay at all in the game, cause I can, it is there but to me that has more to do with a lack of personality of individual sims, recycled things (animations, buffs, interactions and more), hardly any (real) consequences and little to no (or underwhelming) surprises, than with say gameplay objects.
    As much as I do love to use my own imagination and creativity (and the fact that it is a sandboxgame does suggest that one should), I feel that some tools/functions are simply missing....cant paint a colourful picture with only grey shaded pens ;)

    ....hopefully sentiments and lifestyles will add some more colours though

    I actually don't mind recycled animations, because I figure it's not worth re-inventing the wheel. For example, some of the moves in the Plumboomba dance videos (from Fitness Stuff) were reused from the dance skill in Get Together, but that's okay; using an animation in a different format leaves more budget room for new content. Maybe some of the animations for the hot springs will be similar to hot tubs, but we're getting a lot of new animations with the skiing, snowboarding and sledding. (I'm tempted to make a clumsy Sim and send him/her to the slopes to see what sort of fails I can get :D ).
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  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 2,724 Member
    edited November 2020
    LiELF wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    Aine wrote: »
    It's pretty easy to see what people mean if you've played the previous installments. Especially Sims 2

    The assumption that people who enjoy Sims 4 can't have played the earlier games is getting old.

    1. I bought all main entries in the series on release day.
    2. I... honestly cannot remember any more immersive game play in 2, really. More detailed animations, yes. By far. But that's about it.
    3. I got bored with Sims 3 before Island Paradise came out; I stopped playing it after Supernaturals. It was just too frustrating trying to fit all lot types I wanted into one world.

    Like I said in my comment the Sims 2 and 3 had a lot more "sandbox", customizable gameplay that just made the game more replayable for tons of players. The Sims 4 doesn't have that as much and people feel restricted. It's just how it is.

    So what you're saying is that you personally prefer "sandbox" gameplay with customizability and you don't feel like you get that with Sims 4.

    There's no need to try to speak for others, I'm sure they can do that for themselves.

    @LiELF I am not trying to speak for others, I am basically trying to speak for the people I have found that agree with me and that's everything. And it is also just simple logic that watching one event happen exactly in the same way as always is in general more bland watching it unfold differently. So I think that not giving that freedom is the reason why people say the sims 4 doesn't have much replayability. I am not saying I prefer it. I am saying it's easy to understand why sandbox gameplay is more replayable than restricted gameplay.

    I am trying to solve the replayability issue and I am just sharing my theory. I am not speaking for anyone and if people don't agree I guess they will tell me, so I don't see why you have to speak for them...

    No need to get defensive. I just wondered why you don't actually speak from your own personal opinion since we're talking about variations in gameplay and it's different for everyone.

    I personally don't think sandbox gameplay is always the answer. In some cases, like building and world editing, definitely. I think Sims 4 has too much sandbox play when it comes to dictating behaviors and actions of the Sims from the player and I would prefer more individual autonomy and game behaviors to choose from that Sims will act out on their own and animate. As it is now, the Sims are kind of all the same until the player dictates the direction.

    @LiELF I don't think you either understand what I mean by sandbox and what I am trying to say.

    1. I agree with you the Sims all feel the same, but in my opinion it is because of lack of sandbox or failed sandbox elements. Like we all know you can customize the traits of Sims and they should be acting accordingly, that is a sandbox feature. The fact that they aren't acting according to what you chose and all feel the same is due to bad execution but the traits feature itself is fun, cutomizable gameplay, it just doens't work.

    2. I am not trying to speak from my own personal opinion. I am trying to find the reason why so many players, like the OP said, complain about the game not being replayable enough and my hypothesis is due to the lack of sandbox. I am trying to state a general theory I thought of and not say "my opinion".

    3. I was not getting defensive 'till the point where you said "I shouldn't speak for other people." It came off as kind of rude from your side and it changed my behavior accordingly.
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  • BeardedgeekBeardedgeek Posts: 5,520 Member
    Onverser wrote: »
    Plus in some packs like Island Living the "gameplay" is literally just a pretty island world and thats about it,

    But... that is part of my original question. That is, quite frankly a lie you just typed. There is plenty of gameplay; if you chose not to do it, that is a completely different issue than claiming it is not there.

    Origin ID: A_Bearded_Geek
  • alanmichael1alanmichael1 Posts: 5,384 Member
    Gameplay in TS3 Island Paradise:
    Houseboats
    Resorts
    Visible underwater diving
    Playable lifeguard career
    Mermaids
    Hidden Islands
    Kraken
    All kinds of boats
    Surfing
    Waterski

    Gameplay in TS4 Island Living:
    Mermaids
    Playable conservationist career
    Slow sailing boats, aqua gliders
    Rabit hole diving
    Rabit hole lifeguard career
    Island spirits = almost normal ghosts
    Funny sun tan (love it!)
    Village fiestas without new animations

    See the difference? There is nothing interesting to do in many TS4 packs.

    If the difference is " a few fewer things" then sure. This, however, is far from "no gameplay".

    The functional houseboats alone deliver more story possibilities and magic than any feature in TS4. I really hope that the rental lots patch will add some meaning to Sulani. A Pool SP could also be helpful.
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 2,724 Member
    edited November 2020
    Onverser wrote: »
    Plus in some packs like Island Living the "gameplay" is literally just a pretty island world and thats about it,

    But... that is part of my original question. That is, quite frankly a lie you just typed. There is plenty of gameplay; if you chose not to do it, that is a completely different issue than claiming it is not there.

    @Beardedgeek Simply compare the features he listed. Visible, interactive underwater diving vs rabbit hole diving. Houseboats vs. no houseboats. Playable Lifeguard career vs non-playable lifeguard career.
    That was his point. Same with @Calico45 whose comment you didn't mention even though she provided a pretty good answer to your question, as well as my comment earlier on.

    One might argue that Island Living simply came with different features and this is why some of the features like diving, lifeguards and houseboats, resorts were missing but I still struggle to find enough gameplay in that pack to make up for all the missing features.
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  • BeardedgeekBeardedgeek Posts: 5,520 Member
    Gameplay in TS3 Island Paradise:
    Houseboats
    Resorts
    Visible underwater diving
    Playable lifeguard career
    Mermaids
    Hidden Islands
    Kraken
    All kinds of boats
    Surfing
    Waterski

    Gameplay in TS4 Island Living:
    Mermaids
    Playable conservationist career
    Slow sailing boats, aqua gliders
    Rabit hole diving
    Rabit hole lifeguard career
    Island spirits = almost normal ghosts
    Funny sun tan (love it!)
    Village fiestas without new animations

    See the difference? There is nothing interesting to do in many TS4 packs.

    If the difference is " a few fewer things" then sure. This, however, is far from "no gameplay".

    The functional houseboats alone deliver more story possibilities and magic than any feature in TS4. I really hope that the rental lots patch will add some meaning to Sulani. A Pool SP could also be helpful.

    What items do you think is missing from pools? I genuinely can't think of ANY.
    Also when people talk about "Story" in the Sims... I pride myself on having quite good imagination, but when I watch a lot of let's players I feel like I am watching Dark Helmet playing with the dolls: "Haha his husband loves him but he is going to go out and cheat with this mermaid I just made who is gorgeous! Also they don't know that their daughter is about to flunk Uni!".

    Everyone plays differently, but I never played that way. I never play Sim Selves (because 1. I am ugly, 2. It would weird me out completely to not only not be married to my wife and live as we do now, but to watch myself die!)
    I tend to play Sims that lives the lifestyle I would love but are not me in any other aspect: aka Sims that are not interested in careers or promotions, never stresses, have time to enjoy nature and just... are.)
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  • OnverserOnverser Posts: 3,364 Member
    Onverser wrote: »
    Plus in some packs like Island Living the "gameplay" is literally just a pretty island world and thats about it,

    But... that is part of my original question. That is, quite frankly a lie you just typed. There is plenty of gameplay; if you chose not to do it, that is a completely different issue than claiming it is not there.

    I didn't say there's no gameplay, I said the world's there and there's not much else which is true in my opinion. The new gameplay features are: sunbathing, jetskis, diving, a half baked occult, cleaning up trash, swimming in the sea, making sandcastles and that's basically it. As I said in my previous comment, it's in comparison with the Sims 3 equivalent which had a lot more gameplay. So yes, 4 is lacking if you compare the two.
  • logionlogion Posts: 4,712 Member
    edited November 2020
    Lack of gameplay for me is a lack of reason to play the game. It's based on what the game is offering, different users find different types of gameplay mechanics interesting.

    When the game does not offer many new or offers very similar gameplay mechanics to what the game already has, then in my point of view the game lacks gameplay.

    I often feel that Maxis relies too much on users making their own fun. If the game does not offer anything new for the user, then the user feels that the game is lacking in gameplay and replayability.
  • MovottiMovotti Posts: 7,774 Member
    To me, gameplay is about interactions.

    It's about the objects your sim can interact with, and about interactions with other sims.
    Interactions with lasting effects can deepen the gameplay, such as back in ts2, when mean interactions between sims could create proper enemies, who would always have autonomous mean interactions.

    I don't like this game being too scripted, and I don't like it lacking in the lasting effects of interactions.
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  • alanmichael1alanmichael1 Posts: 5,384 Member
    Gameplay in TS3 Island Paradise:
    Houseboats
    Resorts
    Visible underwater diving
    Playable lifeguard career
    Mermaids
    Hidden Islands
    Kraken
    All kinds of boats
    Surfing
    Waterski

    Gameplay in TS4 Island Living:
    Mermaids
    Playable conservationist career
    Slow sailing boats, aqua gliders
    Rabit hole diving
    Rabit hole lifeguard career
    Island spirits = almost normal ghosts
    Funny sun tan (love it!)
    Village fiestas without new animations

    See the difference? There is nothing interesting to do in many TS4 packs.

    If the difference is " a few fewer things" then sure. This, however, is far from "no gameplay".

    The functional houseboats alone deliver more story possibilities and magic than any feature in TS4. I really hope that the rental lots patch will add some meaning to Sulani. A Pool SP could also be helpful.

    What items do you think is missing from pools? I genuinely can't think of ANY.
    Also when people talk about "Story" in the Sims... I pride myself on having quite good imagination, but when I watch a lot of let's players I feel like I am watching Dark Helmet playing with the dolls: "Haha his husband loves him but he is going to go out and cheat with this mermaid I just made who is gorgeous! Also they don't know that their daughter is about to flunk Uni!".

    Everyone plays differently, but I never played that way. I never play Sim Selves (because 1. I am ugly, 2. It would weird me out completely to not only not be married to my wife and live as we do now, but to watch myself die!)
    I tend to play Sims that lives the lifestyle I would love but are not me in any other aspect: aka Sims that are not interested in careers or promotions, never stresses, have time to enjoy nature and just... are.)

    Well, in TS3 we had pool slides, pool bars (!!!) and waterfalls to play in. We also had curved pools.
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 2,724 Member
    edited November 2020
    logion wrote: »
    I often feel that Maxis relies too much on users making their own fun. If the game does not offer anything new for the user, then the user feels that the game is lacking in gameplay and replayability.

    @logion Yes and then some Simmers use that as an arguement against people who request more from the game (as happened in one of the threads I made when someone told me I should just stop playing the game if I have no imagination). Then EA can get away with releasing half-made packs.

    The Sims 3 team in the Island Paradise pack delivered Fully fleshed out water activities with skis, and jets, boats, water taxis, you name it. Then the whole houseboat feature, fully fleshed out resorts which you could run and have other sims even review them, a new occult, actual interactive diving underwater, sharks, kraken, hidden islands, the new world etc. I mean I cannot think of one Sims 4 pack that had so many features and also some of them so fleshed-out.

    Also I think the OP of this thread has muted me so... I guess they won't be seeing this comment either :lol:
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  • OnverserOnverser Posts: 3,364 Member
    edited November 2020
    logion wrote: »
    I often feel that Maxis relies too much on users making their own fun. If the game does not offer anything new for the user, then the user feels that the game is lacking in gameplay and replayability.

    100% this. I think spark'd just showed how they see it, they think players are either storytellers, builders, or stylists. I've seen a lot of people who love telling stories with the game and for these people its easy enough to make a big story around a small feature. Like they can create a massive story about being a master spellcaster who declares evil on the land, whilst for a regular player who doesn't come up with big stories the gameplay is not that in depth so it's hard to stay interested. You can make your own fun with the game and some imagination, but it's not already there if that makes sense.

    Like you can imagine a whole tier system for spellcasters and a good and evil side, but that isn't actually there in the game. There's no option to be a spellcaster of evil who's feared by all built into the game it's just someones own imagination. It's just working around what's there and making your own fun. People who play in that way can get so much out of even the shallowest of packs, whilst for regular players they don't get the same amount of enjoyment and replayability.
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 2,724 Member
    Onverser wrote: »
    logion wrote: »
    I often feel that Maxis relies too much on users making their own fun. If the game does not offer anything new for the user, then the user feels that the game is lacking in gameplay and replayability.

    100% this. I think spark'd just showed how they see it, they think players are either storytellers, builders, or stylists. I've seen a lot of people who love telling stories with the game and for these people its easy enough to make a big story around a small feature. Like they can create a massive story about being a master spellcaster who declares evil on the land, whilst for a regular player who doesn't come up with big stories the gameplay is not that in depth so it's hard to stay interested. You can make your own fun with the game and some imagination, but it's not already there if that makes sense.

    Like you can imagine a whole tier system for spellcasters and a good and evil side, but that isn't actually there in the game. There's no option to be a spellcaster of evil who's feared by all built into the game it's just someones own imagination. It's just working around what's there and making your own fun. People who play in that way can get so much out of even the shallowest of packs, whilst for regular players they don't get the same amount of enjoyment and replayability.

    Eventhough I personally am a Storyteller player I do completely agree with you because I like the game to play along with the story I created. Like with traits. I can just imagine a Sim is vegeterian but shouldn't the trait work and take the load of off me so I don't have to imagine it, but see it actually happen?
    Also I can try to imagine that two of my Sims are enemies and hate each other but it's so hard because even after I choose the argue interaction, if I don't look at them to make sure they are fighting, they end up talking about their days without me realizing.
    I can imagine my Sim lives in a hotel, but if it doesn't function like one, then how am I supposed to believe that?

    I think just using some imagination and then letting the game play your choices out for you just doesn't work anymore, you have to make such a big effort to believe all the things you are imagining and micro managing so much in order to get what you want out of the gameplay, that it for sure something the Sims 4 has to work on.
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  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 6,439 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    Aine wrote: »
    It's pretty easy to see what people mean if you've played the previous installments. Especially Sims 2

    The assumption that people who enjoy Sims 4 can't have played the earlier games is getting old.

    1. I bought all main entries in the series on release day.
    2. I... honestly cannot remember any more immersive game play in 2, really. More detailed animations, yes. By far. But that's about it.
    3. I got bored with Sims 3 before Island Paradise came out; I stopped playing it after Supernaturals. It was just too frustrating trying to fit all lot types I wanted into one world.

    Like I said in my comment the Sims 2 and 3 had a lot more "sandbox", customizable gameplay that just made the game more replayable for tons of players. The Sims 4 doesn't have that as much and people feel restricted. It's just how it is.

    So what you're saying is that you personally prefer "sandbox" gameplay with customizability and you don't feel like you get that with Sims 4.

    There's no need to try to speak for others, I'm sure they can do that for themselves.

    @LiELF I am not trying to speak for others, I am basically trying to speak for the people I have found that agree with me and that's everything. And it is also just simple logic that watching one event happen exactly in the same way as always is in general more bland watching it unfold differently. So I think that not giving that freedom is the reason why people say the sims 4 doesn't have much replayability. I am not saying I prefer it. I am saying it's easy to understand why sandbox gameplay is more replayable than restricted gameplay.

    I am trying to solve the replayability issue and I am just sharing my theory. I am not speaking for anyone and if people don't agree I guess they will tell me, so I don't see why you have to speak for them...

    No need to get defensive. I just wondered why you don't actually speak from your own personal opinion since we're talking about variations in gameplay and it's different for everyone.

    I personally don't think sandbox gameplay is always the answer. In some cases, like building and world editing, definitely. I think Sims 4 has too much sandbox play when it comes to dictating behaviors and actions of the Sims from the player and I would prefer more individual autonomy and game behaviors to choose from that Sims will act out on their own and animate. As it is now, the Sims are kind of all the same until the player dictates the direction.

    @LiELF I don't think you either understand what I mean by sandbox and what I am trying to say.

    1. I agree with you the Sims all feel the same, but in my opinion it is because of lack of sandbox or failed sandbox elements. Like we all know you can customize the traits of Sims and they should be acting accordingly, that is a sandbox feature. The fact that they aren't acting according to what you chose and all feel the same is due to bad execution but the traits feature itself is fun, cutomizable gameplay, it just doens't work.

    2. I am not trying to speak from my own personal opinion. I am trying to find the reason why so many players, like the OP said, complain about the game not being replayable enough and my hypothesis is due to the lack of sandbox. I am trying to state a general theory I thought of and not say "my opinion".

    3. I was not getting defensive 'till the point where you said "I shouldn't speak for other people." It came off as kind of rude from your side and it changed my behavior accordingly.

    @SimmerGeorge Making group statements is something I see all the time from people trying to speak for some imaginary army but looking back I can see now what you meant about the replayability via sandbox features in a general player sense, so my apologies if I came off rude. I've lost patience with the "everybody feels this way, nobody feels that way", arguments that come up around here so I jumped the gun a bit. My bad. :s

    #Team Occult
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 2,724 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    Aine wrote: »
    It's pretty easy to see what people mean if you've played the previous installments. Especially Sims 2

    The assumption that people who enjoy Sims 4 can't have played the earlier games is getting old.

    1. I bought all main entries in the series on release day.
    2. I... honestly cannot remember any more immersive game play in 2, really. More detailed animations, yes. By far. But that's about it.
    3. I got bored with Sims 3 before Island Paradise came out; I stopped playing it after Supernaturals. It was just too frustrating trying to fit all lot types I wanted into one world.

    Like I said in my comment the Sims 2 and 3 had a lot more "sandbox", customizable gameplay that just made the game more replayable for tons of players. The Sims 4 doesn't have that as much and people feel restricted. It's just how it is.

    So what you're saying is that you personally prefer "sandbox" gameplay with customizability and you don't feel like you get that with Sims 4.

    There's no need to try to speak for others, I'm sure they can do that for themselves.

    @LiELF I am not trying to speak for others, I am basically trying to speak for the people I have found that agree with me and that's everything. And it is also just simple logic that watching one event happen exactly in the same way as always is in general more bland watching it unfold differently. So I think that not giving that freedom is the reason why people say the sims 4 doesn't have much replayability. I am not saying I prefer it. I am saying it's easy to understand why sandbox gameplay is more replayable than restricted gameplay.

    I am trying to solve the replayability issue and I am just sharing my theory. I am not speaking for anyone and if people don't agree I guess they will tell me, so I don't see why you have to speak for them...

    No need to get defensive. I just wondered why you don't actually speak from your own personal opinion since we're talking about variations in gameplay and it's different for everyone.

    I personally don't think sandbox gameplay is always the answer. In some cases, like building and world editing, definitely. I think Sims 4 has too much sandbox play when it comes to dictating behaviors and actions of the Sims from the player and I would prefer more individual autonomy and game behaviors to choose from that Sims will act out on their own and animate. As it is now, the Sims are kind of all the same until the player dictates the direction.

    @LiELF I don't think you either understand what I mean by sandbox and what I am trying to say.

    1. I agree with you the Sims all feel the same, but in my opinion it is because of lack of sandbox or failed sandbox elements. Like we all know you can customize the traits of Sims and they should be acting accordingly, that is a sandbox feature. The fact that they aren't acting according to what you chose and all feel the same is due to bad execution but the traits feature itself is fun, cutomizable gameplay, it just doens't work.

    2. I am not trying to speak from my own personal opinion. I am trying to find the reason why so many players, like the OP said, complain about the game not being replayable enough and my hypothesis is due to the lack of sandbox. I am trying to state a general theory I thought of and not say "my opinion".

    3. I was not getting defensive 'till the point where you said "I shouldn't speak for other people." It came off as kind of rude from your side and it changed my behavior accordingly.

    @SimmerGeorge Making group statements is something I see all the time from people trying to speak for some imaginary army but looking back I can see now what you meant about the replayability via sandbox features in a general player sense, so my apologies if I came off rude. I've lost patience with the "everybody feels this way, nobody feels that way", arguments that come up around here so I jumped the gun a bit. My bad. :s

    @LiELF No worries. It's the forums afterall, written word can be easily misunderstood or misinterpreted compared to face-to-face communication. At least that's what I believe. Happens to me all the time too and I have also lost my patience from time to time in these forums :lol: It's no biggie.
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • DragonCat159DragonCat159 Posts: 1,896 Member
    To me what counts as meaningf gameplay are features that leave long-term reward(s) instead of watching your Sim skii down a slope of snow that doesn't really grow your Sims into progressing beings. I'll expand on this later, but replay value takes into account and is probably why many or most find gameplay lacking. Replayability is crutial thing to keep any game interesting and strive the player who actually feel some kind of achievement instead of seeing a Sim do X just for the sake of spectating Sims do the same few-variable animation over and over and over and over again.
    NNpYlHF.jpg
  • izecsonizecson Posts: 2,875 Member
    I think what they mean is Sandbox Gameplay
    ihavemultiplegamertags
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