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Is it okay for personality improvements to be tied to EPs?

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  • ehud8651ehud8651 Posts: 62 Member
    bixters wrote: »
    I have a feeling that they were forced to make this long requested sit behind a paywall in response due to financial difficulties posed by COVID + a slew of packs that were regarded as flops by their player base.

    And we thought Journey to Batuu was low? Hiding core game features behind a paywall is even lower :D

    But we still don't know yet. Hopefully the devs clarify soon....

    Lifestyles and sentiments aren't a personality overhaul
    most likely sentiments will work like your sims will have slower relationship gain and faster relationship loss with somebody they saw cheating on them.
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 2,724 Member
    ehud8651 wrote: »
    bixters wrote: »
    I have a feeling that they were forced to make this long requested sit behind a paywall in response due to financial difficulties posed by COVID + a slew of packs that were regarded as flops by their player base.

    And we thought Journey to Batuu was low? Hiding core game features behind a paywall is even lower :D

    But we still don't know yet. Hopefully the devs clarify soon....

    Lifestyles and sentiments aren't a personality overhaul
    most likely sentiments will work like your sims will have slower relationship gain and faster relationship loss with somebody they saw cheating on them.

    @ehud8651 the description still states that the lifestyles will affect Sims' behavior and to me that's pretty similar to a personality update
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • ehud8651ehud8651 Posts: 62 Member
    ehud8651 wrote: »
    bixters wrote: »
    I have a feeling that they were forced to make this long requested sit behind a paywall in response due to financial difficulties posed by COVID + a slew of packs that were regarded as flops by their player base.

    And we thought Journey to Batuu was low? Hiding core game features behind a paywall is even lower :D

    But we still don't know yet. Hopefully the devs clarify soon....

    Lifestyles and sentiments aren't a personality overhaul
    most likely sentiments will work like your sims will have slower relationship gain and faster relationship loss with somebody they saw cheating on them.

    @ehud8651 the description still states that the lifestyles will affect Sims' behavior and to me that's pretty similar to a personality update

    I am excited for that, it isn't an overhaul, it is still epic, but overhaul is a big change to the system, not a huge add on
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 2,724 Member
    ehud8651 wrote: »
    ehud8651 wrote: »
    bixters wrote: »
    I have a feeling that they were forced to make this long requested sit behind a paywall in response due to financial difficulties posed by COVID + a slew of packs that were regarded as flops by their player base.

    And we thought Journey to Batuu was low? Hiding core game features behind a paywall is even lower :D

    But we still don't know yet. Hopefully the devs clarify soon....

    Lifestyles and sentiments aren't a personality overhaul
    most likely sentiments will work like your sims will have slower relationship gain and faster relationship loss with somebody they saw cheating on them.

    @ehud8651 the description still states that the lifestyles will affect Sims' behavior and to me that's pretty similar to a personality update

    I am excited for that, it isn't an overhaul, it is still epic, but overhaul is a big change to the system, not a huge add on

    Still I don't get how this has anything to do with snow and why it's not part of the base game. Hope they patch it in.
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • VentusMattVentusMatt Posts: 1,028 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    I just found myself wondering if we are going to get a big patch to tweak traits before this EP releases. Maybe they'll put something in the game in addition to the Lifestyles and Sentiment things.

    I would definitely love to see a trait overhaul that would make the current traits more meaningful/impactful and if that does happen it would make the L&S system more of a just an extra addons to really help define your sim but not necessary like it currently is.

    I will say though that lifestyle aspect makes me think that since it's based on what your sims do it's more like the hobbie/interest system from ts2. The more they do it the more they will want to do it and maybe we'll see conflicting lifestyles?
  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 6,439 Member
    VentusMatt wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    I just found myself wondering if we are going to get a big patch to tweak traits before this EP releases. Maybe they'll put something in the game in addition to the Lifestyles and Sentiment things.

    I would definitely love to see a trait overhaul that would make the current traits more meaningful/impactful and if that does happen it would make the L&S system more of a just an extra addons to really help define your sim but not necessary like it currently is.

    I will say though that lifestyle aspect makes me think that since it's based on what your sims do it's more like the hobbie/interest system from ts2. The more they do it the more they will want to do it and maybe we'll see conflicting lifestyles?

    It's possible. I mean, just about anything that adds individuality right now is a good start. I hope it's a sensible system.
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  • bixtersbixters Posts: 2,299 Member
    edited October 2020
    ehud8651 wrote: »
    bixters wrote: »
    I have a feeling that they were forced to make this long requested sit behind a paywall in response due to financial difficulties posed by COVID + a slew of packs that were regarded as flops by their player base.

    And we thought Journey to Batuu was low? Hiding core game features behind a paywall is even lower :D

    But we still don't know yet. Hopefully the devs clarify soon....

    Lifestyles and sentiments aren't a personality overhaul
    most likely sentiments will work like your sims will have slower relationship gain and faster relationship loss with somebody they saw cheating on them.

    How is that not base game content? Sounds like it's fixing core relationship issues according to your speculation. It may not be an "overhaul," but it's still a change that supposed to put a band-aid on a broken system from the base game.

    And like SimmerGeorge stated, how does this fit into a pack about snow?

    It's like if they put the Fear system in a pack about Golfing. It just doesn't make sense. Why should I have to buy a pack about Golfing just to get the Fear emotion?
  • LeaselmaryLeaselmary Posts: 108 Member
    I'm really curious what ppl mean by "sim having a personality".

    In sims 2 they had personality points. It influenced sim a little, some animations were a little bit different, some skills were easier to master and sims would give a player reaction on whether or not they liked the command. The reactions were a cute detail and it made sims more livelike. But honestly when I play sims 2 I pay little attention to their "points". All they wants and fears come from their aspiration. All knowledge sims want the same things, all family sims want the same things, they were very predictable.

    Then it was sims 3. And sims 3 had em... traits instead of everything sims 2 had. Fears, personality points, 4th wall breaking, aspirations, memories were gone. Well, at least memories were reintroduced with Generation and patched into the game later. So, what did traits in sims 3? They defined wants the sims would get, give sims extra talking points, maybe boosted their talent for a skill, influence their automatic behavior and some traits had some specific animation. And sometimes a trait would give sim a moodlet. That's basically it.

    Traits in sims 4 works in pretty much the same way. Traits do influence whims. Bookworms do want to read books, creative sims do want to do creative things, clepto wants to steal, loners wants to be alone in the room, outgoing sims wants to make friends. The problem with the whims, is that some packs added cloggy whims, like buying the bee box. But traits do give our sims whims like they supposed to. We also do have extra talking points from the traits, skill ability boosts, some traits specific animations and moodlets. Ambitious sims become tense if they are unemployed. Influence on automatic behaviour is still there. Mean sims will insult others on their own, geeks are always on computer if I don't control them.

    Emotions do influence sim as well, yes. But emotion is the main sims 4 feature. Complaing about sims 4 having emotions is like complaining sims 2 having aspirations.

    So. What exactly do people mean by "personality overhaul"? I would be really happy to get new traits and new aspirations. Is this what most people talk about? I would like new traits and new aspirations. Don't want a complete overhaul though, not really. I don't want my sims to be SO complex I'd start to feel like a slave owner.

    And what does "whims overhaul" mean? Whims are not wants. Wants in other games are more like goals. But sims 4 has goals tied to aspirations and whims are more like "little things they want now". I like that, personally. I'm all for little things like watch tv, pet a dog, hug your kid, kiss your partner, dine at the restaraunt. If by whims overhaul ppl mean "less annoying laundry whims, not everyone should want a bee hive and give us some new whims please" than yeah, I like that idea.

    But I've actually played sims 3 for last couple of days. I've gave my sim a lifetime wish of a street artist and some traits I thought were good for artist.

    First thing he wanted was to became a politician which I dismissed because just no. Then he wanted to create a bunch of street art. And that was it. I am a want based player. I've played for two sims week and my sim never wanted to meet somebody or have a friend or fell in love. It was paint 3 walls, paint 5 wall, paint 10 walls, paint 20 walls, have a degree in Uni, visit festival grounds and also visit France for some reason.

    Maybe my traits choice fot this sim was unfortunate but I didn't have a feeling this sim had a personality.

    When I play whims based style in sims 4 my sims will have some friends and a partner in two weeks. They are more social and, well, emotional in sims 4. Well, maybe they are smarter. I am not sure what "smarter" even means when it comes to sims. Don't want them to be "so smart it's scary" that's for sure.
  • VentusMattVentusMatt Posts: 1,028 Member
    edited October 2020
    bixters wrote: »
    ehud8651 wrote: »
    bixters wrote: »
    I have a feeling that they were forced to make this long requested sit behind a paywall in response due to financial difficulties posed by COVID + a slew of packs that were regarded as flops by their player base.

    And we thought Journey to Batuu was low? Hiding core game features behind a paywall is even lower :D

    But we still don't know yet. Hopefully the devs clarify soon....

    Lifestyles and sentiments aren't a personality overhaul
    most likely sentiments will work like your sims will have slower relationship gain and faster relationship loss with somebody they saw cheating on them.

    How is that not base game content? Sounds like it's fixing core relationship issues according to your speculation. It may not be an "overhaul," but it's still a change that supposed to put a band-aid on a broken system from the base game.

    And like SimmerGeorge stated, how does this fit into a pack about snow?

    It's like if they put the Fear system in a pack about Golfing. It just doesn't make sense. Why should I have to buy a pack about Golfing just to get the Fear emotion?

    I agree that Lifestyle & Sentiments don't make much sense in a snowy getaway pack. I think a lifestyle system would make sense for a hobbie back and sentiments in a Generations pack but if the system is a base game addon then I don't think it really matters what pack it happens to be introduced with.

    Something to think about though is that maybe the reasoning behind L&S being introduced with this pack is that it seems to focus on two things; adventure and relaxation. Both differing ways for one to live their life so this may of inspired them to make a system that focuses on lifestyles, that and feedback from the community. The pack also seems to focus experiences, especially ones between sims. This and player feedback could be the reason behind sentiments. It is also mentioned in the blog post that sims will be able to visit the graveyard which could also play into the sentiment system by having sims deaths and the relationships that sims had with one another play a bigger role in now they react, grieve, and treat the deceased.

    Also I do hope the graveyard isn't only in the new world but is added into the base game.
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 2,724 Member
    VentusMatt wrote: »
    bixters wrote: »
    ehud8651 wrote: »
    bixters wrote: »
    I have a feeling that they were forced to make this long requested sit behind a paywall in response due to financial difficulties posed by COVID + a slew of packs that were regarded as flops by their player base.

    And we thought Journey to Batuu was low? Hiding core game features behind a paywall is even lower :D

    But we still don't know yet. Hopefully the devs clarify soon....

    Lifestyles and sentiments aren't a personality overhaul
    most likely sentiments will work like your sims will have slower relationship gain and faster relationship loss with somebody they saw cheating on them.

    How is that not base game content? Sounds like it's fixing core relationship issues according to your speculation. It may not be an "overhaul," but it's still a change that supposed to put a band-aid on a broken system from the base game.

    And like SimmerGeorge stated, how does this fit into a pack about snow?

    It's like if they put the Fear system in a pack about Golfing. It just doesn't make sense. Why should I have to buy a pack about Golfing just to get the Fear emotion?


    Also I do hope the graveyard isn't only in the new world but is added into the base game.

    @VentusMatt People are speculating the graveyard isn't an actual lot, it's more like the graveyard in Cats and Dogs
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • BlkBarbiegalBlkBarbiegal Posts: 7,924 Member
    Can’t wait to learn more about this.
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  • BabykittyjadeBabykittyjade Posts: 4,975 Member
    ehud8651 wrote: »
    bixters wrote: »
    I have a feeling that they were forced to make this long requested sit behind a paywall in response due to financial difficulties posed by COVID + a slew of packs that were regarded as flops by their player base.

    And we thought Journey to Batuu was low? Hiding core game features behind a paywall is even lower :D

    But we still don't know yet. Hopefully the devs clarify soon....

    Lifestyles and sentiments aren't a personality overhaul
    most likely sentiments will work like your sims will have slower relationship gain and faster relationship loss with somebody they saw cheating on them.

    This exactly. I think people are mistaking this as the personality overhaul that's it's not. Imo. Just a few enhancements
    Zombies, oh please oh please give us zombies!! :'(
  • BeardedgeekBeardedgeek Posts: 5,520 Member
    ehud8651 wrote: »
    bixters wrote: »
    I have a feeling that they were forced to make this long requested sit behind a paywall in response due to financial difficulties posed by COVID + a slew of packs that were regarded as flops by their player base.

    And we thought Journey to Batuu was low? Hiding core game features behind a paywall is even lower :D

    But we still don't know yet. Hopefully the devs clarify soon....

    Lifestyles and sentiments aren't a personality overhaul
    most likely sentiments will work like your sims will have slower relationship gain and faster relationship loss with somebody they saw cheating on them.

    This exactly. I think people are mistaking this as the personality overhaul that's it's not. Imo. Just a few enhancements

    Funny, because that is what I define as an overhaul. If this what you just describe, which is a HUGE CHANGE is behind a paywall then that is just a matter of greed and nothing else.
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  • DoloresGreyDoloresGrey Posts: 3,490 Member
    No! It is absolutely inappropriate and disgusting! It just another nail in the coffin!
    -probably just playing Phasmophobia :p
  • SimTrippySimTrippy Posts: 7,651 Member
    ehud8651 wrote: »
    bixters wrote: »
    I have a feeling that they were forced to make this long requested sit behind a paywall in response due to financial difficulties posed by COVID + a slew of packs that were regarded as flops by their player base.

    And we thought Journey to Batuu was low? Hiding core game features behind a paywall is even lower :D

    But we still don't know yet. Hopefully the devs clarify soon....

    Lifestyles and sentiments aren't a personality overhaul
    most likely sentiments will work like your sims will have slower relationship gain and faster relationship loss with somebody they saw cheating on them.

    This exactly. I think people are mistaking this as the personality overhaul that's it's not. Imo. Just a few enhancements

    Yeah but when you need a ton of improvements, a few enhancements is better than nothing. Especially if people have been requesting them for so long ...

    Also why do people keep saying this will be patched in? Why would it be okay to announce the 4 MAJOR EP features, if one of them is basically "you can build stuff" (great I guess? I could before but cool) and "free personality patch"?

    Sorry I just don't get it.
  • SharoniaSharonia Posts: 4,853 Member
    edited October 2020
    Leaselmary wrote: »
    I'm really curious what ppl mean by "sim having a personality".

    I guess in the Sims 4 the traits don't really feel that like they have much impact on sims behavior. I have a clumsy sim for instance but she rarely ever does anything clumsy. Mean sims don't really act mean autonomously all that much. The traits just seem weak and they get lost behind the sims emotions.
    Post edited by Sharonia on
  • NikkihNikkih Posts: 1,758 Member
    edited October 2020
    Didn't turns off & turn ons no come in a pack in the sims 2 and zodiac signs in the sims 3, yes some personally enhancements should be added to base game but we dont know what's getting added as of now
  • luxsylvanluxsylvan Posts: 1,922 Member
    edited October 2020
    TS1299 wrote: »
    Yes. In The Sims 2 Personality was improved with Turn on and Turn Off(NightLife) Hobbies and Interest (FreeTime) and Reputation (Apartment Life). So I do not see why they cannot do those again TS4.

    The problem comes into place when the core personality are still broken in the base game. Personality improvements for the traits and aspirations alongside with whims and emotions are all tied to the base game. As we know those are broken. The new system will attemptto fix those but certaintly will fail because at its core it is broken

    To clear things up it is ok, if the game has a solid foundstion for personslity. But for TS4 while I like that thry are improving personalities, the base game ones should first need to be overhsuled

    Exactly what I think. There is an existing precedent so it isn't the worst thing they've done. But the base game personalities are so bad that it feels like such a bad move--finally improving them but behind a paywall. And that's not enough to get me to buy the pack...maybe when it's free, like the base game always is....
    Post edited by luxsylvan on
  • BeardedgeekBeardedgeek Posts: 5,520 Member
    Again, I am 100% convinced that the reason the personalities are so bland, the perks don't really effect their personalities or why whims were pointless is because the game was going to be a multiplayer online only experience where you roleplaying your Sim and intereacting with other human players would be the core. Like Second Life without the real money and R / X rated material.

    There is no need to develope personalized unique reactions for Sims if they are 100% controlled by IRL people all the time after all.
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  • VentusMattVentusMatt Posts: 1,028 Member
    A real trait overhaul is really needed. Traits should effect our sims behavior.

    Something that always annoys me when I start a new game and the only sims in it are shipped sims is that I see Bob at the gym. Bob is lazy, gloomy, and loner which to me makes him one of the least likely ppl to go to a gym. I know that the game usually just pulls from a set sims but traits should effect what venues sims are more likely to show up at.

    Emotions and traits. Let's focus again on lazy Bob. Working out should be on of the last things Bob does and it should have a more negative impact on him since he is lazy. Ie. I want him to tire faster, lose entertainment, and get bored or feel tense. I want him to work out for 30mins and just stop and maybe even refuse to workout entirely from time to time. Now that is just from the trait. How does emotions like Energized play in. I feel like based on a sims trait it should be harder for them to feel certain emotions. For lazy again, maybe they should have to have 5+ in energized not just energized an a some happy buffs but energized alone to even even feel pumped to work out.

    Unflirty, yes sims with unflirty are harder to romance and but you can "force" them to use romantic interactions or even just give them a romantic buff from decor to make them more receptive but unflirty sims should refuse to flirt and it should take several romantic buffs for them to even feel in the mood.

    Overall emotions end up being too overpowering and certain traits should make certain emotions harder to appear. Basically I want Bob to be a sad, unmotivated, disinterested loner of a sim.
  • KhrisstyneKhrisstyne Posts: 368 Member
    edited October 2020
    I was reading over the blog post and maybe I am wanting this to be true so much but it says
    "...relaxing slow experiences present an array of new Lifestyles to choose from."

    It's as though we already have Lifestyles in the game already but we don't but we might due to a patch a week or a few days before the release. Maybe it's wishful thinking but I do think we are getting free patch for Lifestyles.
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  • BlkBarbiegalBlkBarbiegal Posts: 7,924 Member
    Again, I am 100% convinced that the reason the personalities are so bland, the perks don't really effect their personalities or why whims were pointless is because the game was going to be a multiplayer online only experience where you roleplaying your Sim and intereacting with other human players would be the core. Like Second Life without the real money and R / X rated material.

    There is no need to develope personalized unique reactions for Sims if they are 100% controlled by IRL people all the time after all.

    I agree completely with your first paragraph
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  • FlapFlap Posts: 200 Member
    Leaselmary wrote: »
    I'm really curious what ppl mean by "sim having a personality".

    [...]

    omg I agree so much with all that you wrote. You made crystal clear in words (I'm not a English native speaker so... kinda of hard to write such a detailed msg) what I think about this subject. ty ⭐

  • ShachaaiShachaai Posts: 55 Member
    Some examples for what *I* mean when I say my sims have no personality: my Loner sims don't try to be alone. They'll go and do their homework or eat their food at packed tables with strangers, and sure, they'll feel tense about that, but that's still where they autonomously chose to go sit. My Slob sims don't make any more mess than my Neat sims do. All my sims make friends with any other sims almost exactly the same way; it doesn't matter if the sim we're talking to is Mean or Evil and we're Good, we're still good friends as though we were making friends with another Good sim. My Creative sims don't long to live on a lot with instruments, an easel, or a computer to write on.

    If traits were all we were going to get for personalities, there should be more emphasis placed on autonomous actions those traits prompt our sims to do, and sims with identical or similar traits should be able to form friendships and romances more quickly with each other (and sims with opposing traits have a harder time). As it is, each trait seems to provide little more than an occasional mood swing for each sim (which can be quickly cancelled out by other buffs and/or rewards), and a small handful of different 'small talk' interactions which don't really affect how my sims get on with one another any different from the general options available to all sims.
    The end results of most given actions my sims do is dependent upon their skills, but sims will all learn skills at roughly the same speed (without special traits/rewards/buffs). Surely my Creative sims should learn to play instruments a little more quickly, or my Genius sims do better at Robotics, than sims without those traits? Sims who aren't Creative should be able to rage-quit after 2 hours playing the piano, rather than continuing to play until they're falling asleep. Why do they all have the same attention span for every activity, regardless of what traits we've given them?
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