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The Blackwell Chronicles (On Hiatus)

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  • ThePlumbobThePlumbob Posts: 4,971 Member
    edited October 2020
    Everybody re-adjusts to the new situation in their own way.

  • MonaSolstraaleMonaSolstraale Posts: 1,372 Member
    I guess one should say that they do quite ok ... with and without poker face.
  • lone_catlone_cat Posts: 417 Member
    Sorry, I left an essay on your blog. :D
    I'm being really pessimistic and saying that no one is really getting what they need, or in some cases, what they want. Well, except for Morgyn, but Morgyn just manipulates everyone into giving them what they want. I don't have their full POV, but right now, that's how it looks.

    Dandy, poor guy. He would do anything for Cordelia. He doesn't understand how much cares for her and how he is being used by her. Maybe he does, and he doesn't like to admit it.

    Cordelia is being selfish (at least she visited Dandy and apologized). I also think Morgyn is a terrible influence on her.

    Micah, I think he cares about Morgyn more than he likes to admit and might be jealous of Cordelia. He did admit she was his friend, so that was positive. Baby steps for Micah. :)

    Tomax and Grace seem pretty angry, and I can sympathize with both of them. I'd probably be freaked out with vampires running around and then the sage of untamed magic threatening me with a firestorm. Not to mention, Tomax is still not over Morgyn and now Morgyn is flaunting Cordelia around in front Tomax. Yep, stir the pot a little more, Morgyn.
  • _sims_Yimi_sims_Yimi Posts: 1,747 Member
    Chapter 52
    Wow, Cordelia was so taken in by spending time with Morgyn that she never even noticed the sprites vanishing? Speak about tunnel-vision. Also, for having two loves, Morgyn sure seems to be focusing on one and neglecting the other right now. Do they just intend to flip-flop back and forth on a whim, as their mood changes? That's sure to go over well long-term. :|

    It's such a stark contrast with Dandelion in the Glades. He's sacrificing so much of himself and doing so much for other people. And it's so easy to take that for granted or even forget about him, as we're seeing Cordelia do now. Those two really are polar opposites. I wonder if that's how L Faba lost sight of Dandelion, too. If she got taken in by the exciting magic realm and her life as a Sage, and just... forgot about the boy in the Glades in the process. Man, Cordelia, you're being such a hypocrite. Getting angry at Faba for neglecting Dandelion, while you're doing the exact same yourself. :angry:
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  • ThePlumbobThePlumbob Posts: 4,971 Member
    edited October 2020
    @MonaSolstraale
    I see that we've reached a point in the story when it's considered a success when the characters are doing quite ok :sweat_smile:

    @lone_cat Ooh, I love me an essay!
    Haha, you are being quite pessimistic, but then again, I didn't exactly give you a reason for optimism, did I?

    Poor Dandy, I know. I feel bad for him. Maybe things will turn around for him now that Cordelia somewhat realised what she'd been doing? Maybe...

    Haha, Morgyn is probably not a great influence, no. Although I don't know if all of Cordelia's behaviour can be blamed on them.

    Micah is very in touch with his feelings and never in denial about anything. Lol. (Ok, I couldn't quite keep a straight face saying that, haha.)

    Tomax and Grace sure have mixed feelings.

    To to sum up, everything is going great for everyone, right? :D

    @_sims_Yimi
    Cordelia has had tunnel vision for a long, long time.
    Also, for having two loves, Morgyn sure seems to be focusing on one and neglecting the other right now.
    Ah, not necessarily. Everything we saw in today's chapter happened on the same day. Even Morgyn is not crass enough to go on dates with both of their lovers within a single day. They do spend time with both of them, though sometimes the occasion might dictate who it is - taking Micah to a summer festival happening in the middle of a sunny day was never really going to be an option. :D

    Whether that necessarily means they treat their "loves" equally is a whole other thing, though. I think we've seen enough of Morgyn alone with Cordelia and Morgyn alone with Micah for you to make your mind up on that, though :)

    Dandy did once say that perhaps Cordelia and L Faba have more in common than they know. Maybe he wasn't wrong.
    Post edited by ThePlumbob on
  • ThePlumbobThePlumbob Posts: 4,971 Member
    edited October 2020
    What's this? A seasonally appropriate Spooky Day chapter? Don't get too used to my story holidays matching up with the time of the year haha.

  • ThePlumbobThePlumbob Posts: 4,971 Member
    @DeafSimmer
    Thanks! :) Aine (even in ghost form) is definitely gone. Although that doesn't necessarily mean we won't be seeing her again.
  • mercuryfoammercuryfoam Posts: 1,156 Member
    @ThePlumbob
    I really like the last chapter! :open_mouth: I hope they get some peaceful days. Although I'm not banking on it. *looks for Verena* :smiley:
  • ThePlumbobThePlumbob Posts: 4,971 Member
    @mercuryfoam
    I figured everyone deserved a bit of a break. And finally got a chance to throw in a bit of lore! Let's see how long the peace lasts... and if it would necessarily take an intervention as drastic as Verena's arrival to shake it up :D
  • ThePlumbobThePlumbob Posts: 4,971 Member
    Posting this a day early, though it's not really a treat.

  • mercuryfoammercuryfoam Posts: 1,156 Member
    edited October 2020
    Ch54 made me wonder about monogamy being a social / emotion construct and why can't we have both and not have to choose between one or the other. I suppose it's a no brainer, but I did have to think about it to realise that accepting polyamory contradicts the idea (construct) that monogamy is the ideal/highest form of support and relationship (sanctitity of marriage and the 'death to us part or smth'). And this construct has been ingrained in us at a societal level and that from a natural evolutionary perspective, people are wired to be polyamorous. It also makes sense that when I first found out about Morgyn's loves i reacted in horror, because I'm a hopeless romantic and love being unexclusive is something I associated with the past or only with certain cultures. (Like mine, actually. Haha)

    Anyway, just me sorting out my half asleep mind and you being the unfortunate recipient at being talked at :joy: .
  • ThePlumbobThePlumbob Posts: 4,971 Member
    edited October 2020
    @mercuryfoam Oof, and this is your brain when you first wake up? My morning thoughts typically consist of "I miss bed" and "I want coffee" :D

    Anyway, apologies in advance because my reply got way, way longer than anticipated...
    I'm no expert on the topic whatsoever, but here's my take/random stream of thought, hah. I think it depends on how you see the longetivity of the relationship you're looking for. It's definitely in our nature to be attracted to more than one person (because like you say, if that wasn't the case, the chances of procreation and the prospects of survival of human kind would be kind of dire :D ). But if you're looking for something a bit more longterm, obviously you need more than attraction.

    Every relationship you enter (this might just even be friendships, not necessarily just romantic relationships) is pretty specific to you and the other person, things you need to build to form an equal partnership, balanced partnership where both parties expectations and needs are met, things like trust and intimacy, all of which are specific to you and that other person alone. Making sure all of those are in balance for both people is not necessarily straightforward, making sure they stay balanced more longterm is harder.

    Enter a third person into that dynamic, achieving (and maintaining) that balance gets even more complicated. Not impossible, of course, but more complex. You could in theory keep the two relationships in complete isolation, but if you are being honest with each other, the partners will know that "the other one" exists. I guess the same premise applies, you want to build trust and intimacy with each of the partners, be equals. Does everybody involved have equal expectations? What if those change? What if you build intimacy with one of the partners quicker than the other? Will this impact the other relationship? If the relationship grows deeper with one person, how will the other one feel? They might just be interested in casual, but will that always be the case? Who do you take to social functions? Are all partners comfortable going as a "throuple," or do you figure out a schedule...

    (Fun fact, Chapter 52 was originally meant to go into more detail about how they determine what they do for "special" occassions, but it kind of felt like timetabling and I figured it wouldn't be interesting for people who do not have a weird obsession with planning like me, lol)

    Anyway, obviously all these specifics depend on the relationship at hand, and the people in it. The dynamic itself will also inevitably vary depending on whether all three are romantically involved, or whether it's only some of the parties, like here - Morgyn was dating two people, Cordelia and Micah both just one. That alone creates an imbalance. Although I'm not sure if all three partners being romantically involved is something that would make things simpler or more complicated - probably the latter.

    Beyond that, I think people often have natural tendencies to "pair up" - again, not necessarily in a romantic sense - from a young age, actually. I remember having two "best" friends in primary school, and even there, with no romantic aspect whatsoever, things could get awkward and result in one friend feeling like the third wheel/feeling left behind. Obviously as you get older you learn to appreciate each friendship on its own and not compare, so perhaps it could in theory be possible in romantic relationships too. Then again, even in adulthood it's not unusual to develop something akin to jealousy when it comes to friendships.

    Well, I've rambled a lot and I'm not sure what my point even is :D I guess what I'm thinking is along the lines of polyamory can potentially work, depending on the people and if that's what everybody involved wants, but it probably requires more effort than a relationship with only one person. Whether it can last longterm... I don't know, you raise a valid point about the whole construct of marriage and "till death do us part." Plenty of people can't make it work longterm with just one person :D I had a friend that believed that the optimal setup was successive monogamy, and oftentimes that's what people end up doing, whether they set out to or not. Saying all of this cautiously as a married person, haha, I do intend to stay married :D

    Of course, even death do us part is a finite concept. Within the context of BC, it's established that Morgyn and Micah can't really die of natural causes. Micah even said at some point something along the lines of "only mortals can promise forever." If you lived forever, would you ever promise a lifetime to another person? But that could be a whole other debate, and I already wrote you a wall of text... Oops, sorry!

    And again, all of the above is just me spitballing, I don't necessarily have a strong opinion on monogamy versus polyamory or consider one "superior" - as long as it works for those actually involved, that's what matters :)
    Post edited by ThePlumbob on
  • mercuryfoammercuryfoam Posts: 1,156 Member
    edited October 2020
    Polyamory can work. The imperial harem culture is probably known worldwide, but what is lesser known is that normal Chinese families practiced polyamory too until the 1910s. Wealthy men must have at least three wives to reflect their status. They can choose not to, but there will be societal pressure and shame. I know in one of the memoirs I read, the first wife had to arrange for her husband’s second and third wedding because he was the monogamous type and only took another because she insisted so. And they all lived in harmony. I thought the wives relationships were kinda awesome actually lol. In current times in Malaysia, if you’re Malay, you’re allowed to have up to 5 wives. So I have many friends with two or three mothers, not so much 5 since it’s economically in-viable. Again not all men of said culture does this, so I have girl friends who don’t mind if their husband has more than one wife, and others who prefer monogamy. So yeah, polyamory can work.

    I do wish though that if poly were practiced, it would be less patrilineal/more equal since the ones I’ve been exposed to are all skewed in one gender’s favor lol.

    Ahh all three partners being romantically involved would be complicated I’m sure. And I agree that if mismanaged, even friends would feel left out.

    I’m hopeless so I’m totally bought by the idea of a ‘forever love’ :lol: Ahahaha spitballing is going to be my new favourite word! I’ve pretty strong opinions but of myself. So yeah, whatever floats one’s boat then people should do that.
  • ThePlumbobThePlumbob Posts: 4,971 Member
    edited October 2020
    @mercuryfoam
    Yes, I'm aware that in some cultures polygamy is practiced in some countries - though I didn't know China used to be one of them. I can of course only comment within the context of my own culture, since that's what I have experience with. Though more broadly, your point about marriage as an artificially introduced practice still applies, whether it involves two partners or more. (Like the guy you mentioned from the memoir whose wife arranged his other marriages, because it was what was expected by society. Doesn't sound that different from other arranged marriages in a way.)

    I don't think I said anywhere in my long and rabmly post that I don't think polyamory can work :D My point essentialy was that it can work, providing that's where everyone's expectations are, and that polyamory is more work, because more people are involved. Much like it takes more effort to maintain three friendships than to just maintain one.
    I’m hopeless so I’m totally bought by the idea of a ‘forever love’
    Don't get me wrong, I do think it's possible for people to stay together until they die - if I didn't think that I wouldn't be married :) But if you remove the death element, I'm not so sure people are built to last together for centuries or millenia. Well, I generally don't think people are built to live forever full stop, a lot of what keeps us going is propelled by the fact that our time is finite. Just look at Snuffy's vampires - all the ones that are centuries old are messed up :D
    Post edited by ThePlumbob on
  • mercuryfoammercuryfoam Posts: 1,156 Member
    Oh, I was replying from the angle of agreeing with you that polyamory can work. My bad I should have clarified that. I was providing examples to build up your point from my understanding of it. :smile:

    It’s quite different from arranged marriages. Arranged marriages are still practiced widely to date in Malaysia so I’m tempted to go on quite a bit but I’m not going to bore you. The reason why I highlighted the wife arranging her husband’s marriages is because that practice is an outlier. It’s more common that the guy takes an interest in whoever he likes and they court and mutually agree to marry. Then, guy gets first wife's blessings (hopefully). My maternal grandfather is one of those.
    Gonna double spoiler this cuz poly is taboo here so this isn’t exactly a shining moment, imo. :lol:
    He had 4 wives. My mom has 17 brothers and sisters. You cannot imagine the nightmare of being a kid during Chinese New Year reunion dinner and trying to remember 17 Aunts and Uncles by proper name and title, and then the names of my your cousins. And that’s just one side of the family. :joy:
    That’s also why I will never play the 100 baby challenge. :lol:

    Ah I don’t know if people are built to last for centuries or millenia either. But I’m a product of my culture which popularises romantic love as the benchmark for relationships to aspire to. Remember that MTV I sent you of the couple who had to go through three lifetimes/reincarnations to be together? That’s the kind of love that is propagated in the media. The Red Thread of Fate, the idea that you have a designated lover regardless of time, place, state (alive/dead) is a widely ingrained concept in whole of East Asia.
  • ThePlumbobThePlumbob Posts: 4,971 Member
    edited October 2020
    @mercuryfoam
    The reason why I highlighted the wife arranging her husband’s marriages is because that practice is an outlier. It’s more common that the guy takes an interest in whoever he likes and they court and mutually agree to marry.
    I understood that :) I was referring to the guy you mentioned specifically, not saying that polygamy as a whole is akin to arranged marriages.
    You cannot imagine the nightmare of being a kid during Chinese New Year reunion dinner and trying to remember 17 Aunts and Uncles by proper name and title, and then the names of my your cousins. And that’s just one side of the family. :joy:
    That’s also why I will never play the 100 baby challenge. :lol:
    Oh boy, that would have made for some large family gatherings haha. The logistics sound like a nightmare, even finding a venue that's big enough for everyone to meet, haha!

    Oh yes, I do remember that video! I think I subscribed to that idea more when I was younger, I've become more pragmatic over the years :) It's definitely a romantic concept, though I'd imagine it might put a lot of pressure on the couple too.
  • lone_catlone_cat Posts: 417 Member
    I missed an interesting discussion. :)
    I'll save you a long ramble, but I agree there isn't a one size fits all for love/relationships and that a lot depends on the culture you grew up in. It also has a biological/evolutionary component that comes into play and complicates things even further. I do think that expectations of love and relationships also change as societies change and develop.

    I agree, and I don't think a relationship would last hundreds of years. A human lifespan, yes, but longer than that, it doesn't seem very sustainable. Morgyn plans to live forever (or at least a really long time) while their partner might not, so it also makes sense why they would be hesitant to form attachments. And if you never aged, died or got ill, your pool of people that you are compatible with would be much larger. So that makes sense why Morgyn might not want to be tied down to one person, when there are so many people out there for them to date. :D Plus, they just seem like the type of person that isn't into monogamy, and that's okay. I still think they should have been more honest with Cordelia and Micah, and there was barely any communication between the three of them. It was more of, this person goes with Morgyn this day while the other person is silently jealous. Not the greatest recipe for a healthy relationship. :D
  • Zora1327Zora1327 Posts: 89 Member
    edited October 2020
    Well, here's my two cents:
    Nowadays in my culture, polygamy is unheard of. Even polyamory! So a person in multiple relationships at the same time is kind of foreign to me, haha. Being in a relationship without being marriage is taboo. Divorcing is also usually taboo and no one likes people who were already married before (whether they be divorced or just outlived their spouse) so marriage is very complicated here! I'm not old enough to be married but I do understand how marriage works (thanks to my mom). It is still sort of patriarchal since men have more control over women. Being a girl, I'm not happy about this. :(

    So I won't say much about polygamy other than people can be free to do whatever they want! :) Men had multiple wives back in the day and kings with multiple concubines/mistresses so I'm not going to question it much.

    I had 11 aunts and uncles on my dad's side (him being the youngest!) and 6 of them on my mom's side. They were all full siblings, born to the exact same parents, and all singles! My dad's oldest sibling was more than twenty years older than him! Almost all of my paternal cousins are way older than me! :# My mom's oldest sibling and her youngest sibling were more than a dozen years apart as well! Pretty crazy family! :open_mouth:

    I'm not really in touch with most of these family members, though, (I have no idea what the names of my dad's older siblings and most of the cousins are) since my parents are sort of detached from their families, haha.
  • SnuffyBucketSnuffyBucket Posts: 569 Member
    Woo! I missed a fun discussion, but I'll jump in here anyway...
    As someone who used to very much be a Morgyn, ahem, I can see the appeal of having multiple partners versus the appeal of having a 'soulmate'. Neither are easy options. I am quite glad Morgyn made a decision although I feel that to assume it's all smooth sailing in the story from here would be naïve of me.
    Just look at Snuffy's vampires - all the ones that are centuries old are messed up :D
    I wouldn't use my lot as a benchmark for eternal anything, let alone matters of the heart; of the three ancient ones, two spent centuries fiddling around in each other's heads, screwing themselves up completely and the other... well he is the poster boy for eternal love, clearly. :D

    If humans lived over 300 years hopefully they'd maintain some degree of, well, humanity. I could see a relationship lasting longer than a lifetime, especially if there wasn't a ticking death clock reminding you that you had limited time on the planet to discover what/who you were missing out on.
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    Almost Eternal
  • ThePlumbobThePlumbob Posts: 4,971 Member
    Oh boy, you guys are going to make my head explode :D

    @lone_cat
    I wish I was able to formulate my thoughts as concisely as you did here, teach me your ways!

    I'll do an separate reply about the whole living forever thing for both you and Snuffy because there's a lot of overlap! But yes, you're right that regardless of their lifespan, Morgyn didn't handle the whole dating dynamic particularly well (gross understatement lol).
    It was more of, this person goes with Morgyn this day while the other person is silently jealous.
    That's exactly what it was, yep.

    @Zora1327
    That's really interesting! Especially what you say about not being able to re-marry after a spouse's death, that's got to be tough if your spouse dies young. Does that mean that in your culture marriage is considered to bind people even beyond death? Can I ask where you're from? Feel free to not answer of course, I'm just curious.

    Where I am, polygamy is not a thing, but polyamory, at least casual, non-exclusive dating is not uncommon. It's been engrained in me throughout the first half of my twenties to never assume my partner is not seeing other people unless explicitly stated. Though I did not date particularly fantastic people, until I met my husband, haha.

    Goodness, that is a large family! I can't blame you for not remembering all of their names :D

    @SnuffyBucket
    Haha, you didn't have to out yourself for your former Morgyn-ness, but I appreciate that you did, it's good to have that perspective mentioned here. And I don't know what you're talking about, totally smooth sailing from here on out and I'm definitely not dreading publishing the next chapter at all...

    @lone_cat & @SnuffyBucket
    Some really interesting points here! When I mentioned living forever, I was definitely thinking about it within a BC-like context, so in a world where not everyone is immortal, and immortality is achieved in some sort of unnatural way like Micah's vampirism or Morgyn's untamed magic. Which is why I referenced the AE vampires, really I meant any fictional vampires who have lived for centuries, but Snuffy's ones are the ones Mercury is familiar with.

    I guess with Morgyn's specific immortality (which sounds like a weird thing to say, considering they literally died a few chapters back, lol), the element of a ticking clock is still there, because they actively have to perform the spell to stop aging on a regular basis. But the point still being likely outliving most people, like Lonecat said.

    Anyway, I'm not sure if my imagination is big enough to picture a world where everyone lives forever, and that's the default state. I suppose if everyone's life span is infinite but resources and land are still finite, there would probably be pretty strict rules around procreation, so traditional families as we think of them would not exist. Which may overspill to how people perceive marriage too (not saying that the only point of marriage is to have children, but for many people it is significant factor).

    And since nobody would think about relationships within a context of "until death," there would probably less pressure on making relationships last. Which could work out the way Snuffy says, in very long term relationships, but on the other hand, I could see it going the other way too, with the increased dating pool Lonecat mentions.

    Plus, if nothing is finite, I can see a lot of things losing a deeper meaning, including relationships, because there's not as much of a need to value those things, they'll be there forever, so what makes them precious? I don't know, I feel like I'd be depressed. Maybe that's just my Micah side talking :D Though a world where everyone lives forever but still has limited resources kind of sounds like a recipe for a dystopian movie, haha.
  • mercuryfoammercuryfoam Posts: 1,156 Member
    I'm having a lot of fun reading everyone's views. It sounds like your views are similar to one another in that rshp's are finite if they were to stretch for more than a few lifetimes.

    @ThePlumbob
    And since nobody would think about relationships within a context of "until death," there would probably less pressure on making relationships last.

    If nothing is finite, I can see a lot of things losing a deeper meaning, including relationships, because there's not as much of a need to value those things, they'll be there forever, so what makes them precious? I don't know, I feel like I'd be depressed. Maybe that's just my Micah side talking :D Though a world where everyone lives forever but still has limited resources kind of sounds like a recipe for a dystopian movie, haha
    lolol We're definitely on extreme opposite ends when it comes to this topic. Though, I've watched many movies and dramas on relationships between eastern gods and goddesses, or based on our spiritual concepts, so my views on immortals and the relationships they have are super optimistic. I do notice movies and dramas outside my context tend to be more.. pragmatic for a lack of a better word, so I can see why my view is so vastly different with everyones. So I definitely understand why we have such difference in ideas. This discussion has definitely been very interesting and enlightening. :)
  • candycottonchucandycottonchu Posts: 906 Member
    edited October 2020
    Hmm interesting discussion!

    I think many forget that patrial polygamy and monogamy are a social construct made to ensure heritage and lineage of a family, and were not connected to any kind of romantic love. While attraction ofc has existed since forever, it had nothing to do with who you married, in fact there are scripts from medieval Europe that advise people to better not have any romantic feelings towards their partners as that would break their relationship. In that context, people being happy in a polygamous marriage is not surprising.
    The idea of romantic love and attraction as the base for marriage is relatively new.

    Now I come from a very similar cultural background as @ThePlumbob , so the Morgyn's polyamory per se is nothing I'd judge them for. But what I hold against them is them keeping up the relationship with both Cory & Micah, while they clearly see that their "loves" are not capable of sharing them, especially Cory. I do not think Morgyn is responsible to make the decision for Cory if she wants to stay with them or not (though they clearly had no issues making other decisions for her here and there...), but how can a person be with another when they consciously know they hurt them? That's unbelievably selfish and cold.
  • ThePlumbobThePlumbob Posts: 4,971 Member
    edited October 2020
    @mercuryfoam
    It's definitely been interesting to see everyone's takes. And I like your romantic interpretation, I'm probably just too much of a pessimist :D

    Also, this vision of a reality where everyone lives forever is definitely an interesting concept to me. I feel like if people lived forever, they'd definitely interpret relationships in a different way we do. But as you say your views on mortality/life after death/reincarnation and so forth might affect your how you'd imagine that. The Micah side of me spirals into stuff like "what is it that gives our life meaning," thinks about it too much and then gets depressed by how bleak it is. The Morgyn side of me gets uncomfortable with how deep all of that's gotten and just wants everyone to go back to safer topics, like how much of an 🐸🐸🐸🐸 Morgyn is, because at least that way it's all about them :mrgreen:

    Edit: Oooh, look at them pumpkins!

    @candycottonchu
    I think many forget that patrial polygamy and monogamy are a social construct made to ensure heritage and lineage of a family, and were not connected to any kind of romantic love. While attraction ofc has existed since forever, it had nothing to do with who you married, in fact there are scripts from medieval Europe that advise people to better not have any romantic feelings towards their partners as that would break their relationship. In that context, people being happy in a polygamous marriage is not surprising.
    The idea of romantic love and attraction as the base for marriage is relatively new.
    I completely agree with all of this.

    Haha yes, I think we can safely say we should not look to Morgyn for "How to" relationship guides :D You're right, Morgyn has definitely taken liberty with deciding some things for Cordelia when they reasoned that they "knew better" (this is not me saying that was justified, btw), but as you say the decision to be in that relationship was technically up to her. But yes, it's pretty selfish of Morgyn to not take how she may be feeling into account, even when she says she's fine with it.
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