> @Simalleyaile said: > There is currently NO gameplay consequences for enemies - sims who are both in the red in their relationship panels who are meant to hate each other. > > Here are two such sims. To be clear, they only "hate" each other because of me. I made them be mean to each other. They each have negative traits like "mean" "hot-headed"; no "cheerful" or "good" traits. > > (Image) > > > They meet in the hallway - they are apartment neighbours - and immediately start in with the "friendly chatting" and I watch their relationship begin to improve. So, I intervene. I am controlling the female. Start the yelling, the name calling, the everything awful and bad available to me. Sure. He gets mad and suddenly he storms off...into her apartment. Whoa, I think, have you guys added something? What's he gonna do? > > The dishes. That's what he did. Her dirty dishes. He took them to her sink and washed them for her. > > > Ah yes, all players of Sims 4 says. The ole, 'nothing to see here folks'. Enemies love each other, just like other sims. Or at least, that's the impression I am so often left with. Sometimes I do see enemies out in the wild fighting each other and being mean - when I am not controlling either one of them. But what I'd like to focus on here is when I am playing one of them. > > Please devs, consider a "simple" solution. Grey out all friendly interactions so neither the player or the automated scripting chooses to be friendly. > > Currently, everything is still available, including the loving "brighten" day, the HUGS etc. > > (Image) > > > The only option in "friendly" category should be "apologise" and "find common ground" - which the player can use if they want to start building a positive relationship again. Once in green, all other friendly interactions can return. > > > > All too often, enemy sims have either verbally or have physically been in a fight and before the player even has time to intervene, the two of them are happily chatting, joking with each other or even hugging. They'll happily watch movies together, slide out in the backyard together, play chess etc. all of these options should be greyed out, and if one autonomously asks the other, then the answer is NO. Use the snub animation. I have seen it for other scenarios and it will work very well for enemies refusing to be friendly. > > Also, please, check all coding that relates to random phone calls. All too often, an enemy will be chosen as the sim who invites the other sim out to a friendly event, or say a kind encouragement or congratulations. Please fix this coding so that enemies are exempt from this positive behaviour. > > Also, please add some extra gameplay for two sims who hate each other, not just verbal interactions. > > Examples from Sims 2:* Enemy sim turns up at house at night and kicks over trash can and makes a mess, runs away laughing maniacally. > * Enemy sim turns up at house and steals gnomes. Sends ransom message to get the gnome back. > > > Other ideas for enemies:* If access to property - as in my above example - enemy storms into house and starts slamming the fridge till it breaks OR breaks any other thing that is breakable. > * Prank calls that decrease relationship further - like the ones you added in EcoLife, (without the playfulness). > * > > Players, what other things would you like added or adjusted to make your enemies more like they actually don't like each other?
I miss the interpersonal conflict that ts2 contained.
Though... I have no problem with the concept of enemies who should have the occasional 'angry woohoo' interaction. This should be a thing. So much anger, so much rage, so much woohoo-tension?
Heck, even a rage filled snog session.
Wait... just a proper snog session in general. You know, like what was in ts2.
Yes, this is a thing. I have a ghost and vampire I'm trying to work on getting the Enemies with Benefits status - where they have a very negative friendship and a very high romantic relationship - (easier said than done with ghosts, cause she just floats off if Vlad gets too enthusiastic with mean stuff and not enough into the romance stuff - bit of a balancing act. Plus, so frustrating that we can't just call or summon ghosts, so they have to do all their wooing at public lots - oooh, just thought, maybe I can put them in a club together, that way they can meet at his castle...will try that this arvo.)
Romance and friendship take place on two separate bars so can either be compatible or incompatible. The incompatible relationship tags are things like: Total Opposites, Terrible Match, Hot and Cold, It's Awkward, It's Complicated.
Negative friendships - with no romance bar - get tags like Disliked, Despised and at the players prompting, Declared Enemies. It's this Declared Enemies relationship that has seemed to be completely abandoned. I have a few sims with this relationship, and so far it hasn't opened any new gameplay. On the oppositie end, when you declare Best Friends (BFF) , I notice they often call you and invite you over to their house, to events etc, and their relationship doesn't get culled. Maybe the Declared Enemy just means their relationship won't get culled.
It's the negative relationship (friendship bar) using positive friendly socials that could use a bit of re-tuning.
Get Famous introduced a Public Feud system. I have two vampires -both with Atrocious Reputation - currently in a feud, and while I'll say it's definitely better than having nothing, and I am having fun with it, it all takes place through written text. You get pop up notices and stuff to read. When they are face to face, there is nothing new added for them to do.
I wish the developers would be more action oriented, instead of using text so often. I have never done so much reading in a sims game before!
I wish the developers would be more action oriented, instead of using text so often. I have never done so much reading in a sims game before!
Although TS3 is my favorite game of the series, I can admit that tell not show started there, with the advent of moodlets. That was the turning point in the franchise. In TS4, moodlets are now a necessity. Without them, the Sims' actions are less likely to reflect what they're supposed to be "thinking". Likewise, there's now a heavy emphasis on text-based, choose-your-own-adventure type gameplay that leaves everything entirely up to the imagination without our Sim avatars being involved at all.
I wish the developers would be more action oriented, instead of using text so often. I have never done so much reading in a sims game before!
Although TS3 is my favorite game of the series, I can admit that tell not show started there, with the advent of moodlets. That was the turning point in the franchise. In TS4, moodlets are now a necessity. Without them, the Sims' actions are less likely to reflect what they're supposed to be "thinking". Likewise, there's now a heavy emphasis on text-based, choose-your-own-adventure type gameplay that leaves everything entirely up to the imagination without our Sim avatars being involved at all.
hah, that's how the sims medieval basically is, and one of the reasons it flopped in the market.
I have complained about this from time to time until I finally just stopped playing this game eventually and for many other reasons. The sad thing about TS4 is it's an identy and a pose game, it has no real consequences or autonomy that can recall what happened last week. Or five seconds ago.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
There was a big difference between Sims 3 and 4. In the Sims3 it was easy to make the other sim mad, or completely turn against the other or go off sims who were having an affair. Also I miss the curfew times for kids and teens, where if they were out at night in sims3 they'd get caught by police and sent home.
Playing the Sims 4, I tend to have Sims moan about things, but I agree that it is to easy to repair relationship between Sims.
I don’t play mean sims, but OP you make such a good point, and in funny and flexible writing, I cannot but support your ideas. Sims really should stick to the by the player set relationship in their autonomous actions, whether that be a friendly or unfriendly connection.
I was very curious to see if the new Sentiments added to the game would make this feedback obsolete, so I did some testing and observing.
I sent Daria (mean sim) to visit her Despised Enemy Choc, in his apartment. (the other sim is Choc's roommate and Daria's good friend.) At this moment they still have a despised and declared enemy relationship, but no sentiment has been given.
Without my intervention they sit and the friendly chat begins. I watch for a while, they get up to dance a bit, then sit back down and friendly chat again. So I get the ball rolling and use "Instigate" on Choc, who reacts alarmed and appalled and outright offended that his enemy should treat him this way, and then ... as soon as she's finished trying to instigate a fight,
She goes back to friendly chatting.
Well, none of that! We fight and Choc wins!
A sentiment is gained, which unlocks one new social interaction.
After using the mean social, Choc walks away to sulk.
Side Point: I just thought it was so ironic that after the fight with CHOC - someone she hates, Daria rolls a whim to take it out on her good friend Tyrell! I get it, she's mean and she also has parenthood's insensitive trait so she just enjoys being rude to everyone, but I would like to see some specific whims for enemies. Whims are a huge part of my gameplay and I am saddened that they have been abandoned and no longer being added to.
Now with sentiment unlocked, I observe their behaviour for a while. Choc goes off to cook a meal, Daria dances in their apartment for a while. I get them to sit together again, and they just continue to friendly chat.
So, I change households to now play as Choc to see how he's feeling.
Choc has the same sentiment in his profile about Daria and some negative moods about what has just happened. He's also hungry, so he makes a meal. Meanwhile, his enemy decided to clean his apartment! She starts with washing their dirty dishes and then takes out their trash. This would be awesome if she had the clean trait, but ... she doesn't.
After he eats, apparently there's really only one thing left to do with a despised enemy you've just been in a fist fight with...
DANCE!! Yep, despite her being in an angry mood, they dance together and gain friendship points.
So I begin to wonder, well maybe they've added some kind of rejection to all this friendly banter. Maybe with these new sentiments, if I try to make enemies use friendly interactions, they'll brush off the other sim. So I choose Brighten day and wait to see how Daria reacts...
My conclusion: Even with sentiments unlocking some new emotional moodlets and one social interaction, the issue remains. Emotions and the number of moodlets were never really the problem in the first place. Its the automated scripting that chooses interactions from the Friendly Categorythat is the problem. So I continue to ask, please @SimGuruGraham, @SimGuruNinja, add some depth and real meaning to enemy relationships by greying out friendly options so neither the automated scripting nor the player can choose them. Leave apologise and find common ground available so the player has a way of mending the relationship. I sincerely believe that this small update could make a significant difference in the quality of gameplay.
I still love playing the Sims 4, and I adore my two case study sims , and as a Control Freak Extraordinaire I'll continue to have a blast bossing them around, insulting each other and getting them into fights, with hope that this feedback is heard so that automatic hugs between enemies can be a thing of the past.
I'm done with this specific bit of feedback but please players, continue to talk about this issue, leave your own evidence and thoughts and feelings about this issue, and if anyone reading this agrees completely and is anxious to see some results, please feel free to link this thread to twitter, where we may get a better result of bringing this to the devs attention.
@Simalleyaile Thanks for the testing. This is my problem with sentiments too - they simply added more moodlets - does not change their behavior at all. In Sims 2, if two sims hated each other - there were many friendly interactions they could not do and they would usually beat each other up! You could tell by their behavior that they hated each other or were angry - they did not need a worded moodlet to tell you that.
I have tested a married couple in Sims 4 where they went at each other with mean interactions and fought until both bars are red, yet they would still chat like best friends and could still woohoo! There should actually be consequences for being abusive.
Comments
> There is currently NO gameplay consequences for enemies - sims who are both in the red in their relationship panels who are meant to hate each other.
>
> Here are two such sims. To be clear, they only "hate" each other because of me. I made them be mean to each other. They each have negative traits like "mean" "hot-headed"; no "cheerful" or "good" traits.
>
> (Image)
>
>
> They meet in the hallway - they are apartment neighbours - and immediately start in with the "friendly chatting" and I watch their relationship begin to improve. So, I intervene. I am controlling the female. Start the yelling, the name calling, the everything awful and bad available to me. Sure. He gets mad and suddenly he storms off...into her apartment. Whoa, I think, have you guys added something? What's he gonna do?
>
> The dishes. That's what he did. Her dirty dishes. He took them to her sink and washed them for her.
>
>
> Ah yes, all players of Sims 4 says. The ole, 'nothing to see here folks'. Enemies love each other, just like other sims. Or at least, that's the impression I am so often left with. Sometimes I do see enemies out in the wild fighting each other and being mean - when I am not controlling either one of them. But what I'd like to focus on here is when I am playing one of them.
>
> Please devs, consider a "simple" solution. Grey out all friendly interactions so neither the player or the automated scripting chooses to be friendly.
>
> Currently, everything is still available, including the loving "brighten" day, the HUGS etc.
>
> (Image)
>
>
> The only option in "friendly" category should be "apologise" and "find common ground" - which the player can use if they want to start building a positive relationship again. Once in green, all other friendly interactions can return.
>
>
>
> All too often, enemy sims have either verbally or have physically been in a fight and before the player even has time to intervene, the two of them are happily chatting, joking with each other or even hugging. They'll happily watch movies together, slide out in the backyard together, play chess etc. all of these options should be greyed out, and if one autonomously asks the other, then the answer is NO. Use the snub animation. I have seen it for other scenarios and it will work very well for enemies refusing to be friendly.
>
> Also, please, check all coding that relates to random phone calls. All too often, an enemy will be chosen as the sim who invites the other sim out to a friendly event, or say a kind encouragement or congratulations. Please fix this coding so that enemies are exempt from this positive behaviour.
>
> Also, please add some extra gameplay for two sims who hate each other, not just verbal interactions.
>
> Examples from Sims 2:* Enemy sim turns up at house at night and kicks over trash can and makes a mess, runs away laughing maniacally.
> * Enemy sim turns up at house and steals gnomes. Sends ransom message to get the gnome back.
>
>
> Other ideas for enemies:* If access to property - as in my above example - enemy storms into house and starts slamming the fridge till it breaks OR breaks any other thing that is breakable.
> * Prank calls that decrease relationship further - like the ones you added in EcoLife, (without the playfulness).
> *
>
> Players, what other things would you like added or adjusted to make your enemies more like they actually don't like each other?
This would definitely encourage me play more...
Yes, this is a thing. I have a ghost and vampire I'm trying to work on getting the Enemies with Benefits status - where they have a very negative friendship and a very high romantic relationship - (easier said than done with ghosts, cause she just floats off if Vlad gets too enthusiastic with mean stuff and not enough into the romance stuff - bit of a balancing act. Plus, so frustrating that we can't just call or summon ghosts, so they have to do all their wooing at public lots - oooh, just thought, maybe I can put them in a club together, that way they can meet at his castle...will try that this arvo.)
Romance and friendship take place on two separate bars so can either be compatible or incompatible. The incompatible relationship tags are things like: Total Opposites, Terrible Match, Hot and Cold, It's Awkward, It's Complicated.
Negative friendships - with no romance bar - get tags like Disliked, Despised and at the players prompting, Declared Enemies. It's this Declared Enemies relationship that has seemed to be completely abandoned. I have a few sims with this relationship, and so far it hasn't opened any new gameplay. On the oppositie end, when you declare Best Friends (BFF) , I notice they often call you and invite you over to their house, to events etc, and their relationship doesn't get culled. Maybe the Declared Enemy just means their relationship won't get culled.
It's the negative relationship (friendship bar) using positive friendly socials that could use a bit of re-tuning.
I wish the developers would be more action oriented, instead of using text so often. I have never done so much reading in a sims game before!
Although TS3 is my favorite game of the series, I can admit that tell not show started there, with the advent of moodlets. That was the turning point in the franchise. In TS4, moodlets are now a necessity. Without them, the Sims' actions are less likely to reflect what they're supposed to be "thinking". Likewise, there's now a heavy emphasis on text-based, choose-your-own-adventure type gameplay that leaves everything entirely up to the imagination without our Sim avatars being involved at all.
hah, that's how the sims medieval basically is, and one of the reasons it flopped in the market.
Playing the Sims 4, I tend to have Sims moan about things, but I agree that it is to easy to repair relationship between Sims.
I was very curious to see if the new Sentiments added to the game would make this feedback obsolete, so I did some testing and observing.
I sent Daria (mean sim) to visit her Despised Enemy Choc, in his apartment. (the other sim is Choc's roommate and Daria's good friend.) At this moment they still have a despised and declared enemy relationship, but no sentiment has been given.
Without my intervention they sit and the friendly chat begins. I watch for a while, they get up to dance a bit, then sit back down and friendly chat again. So I get the ball rolling and use "Instigate" on Choc, who reacts alarmed and appalled and outright offended that his enemy should treat him this way, and then ... as soon as she's finished trying to instigate a fight,
She goes back to friendly chatting.
Well, none of that! We fight and Choc wins!
A sentiment is gained, which unlocks one new social interaction.
After using the mean social, Choc walks away to sulk.
Side Point: I just thought it was so ironic that after the fight with CHOC - someone she hates, Daria rolls a whim to take it out on her good friend Tyrell! I get it, she's mean and she also has parenthood's insensitive trait so she just enjoys being rude to everyone, but I would like to see some specific whims for enemies. Whims are a huge part of my gameplay and I am saddened that they have been abandoned and no longer being added to.
Now with sentiment unlocked, I observe their behaviour for a while. Choc goes off to cook a meal, Daria dances in their apartment for a while. I get them to sit together again, and they just continue to friendly chat.
So, I change households to now play as Choc to see how he's feeling.
Choc has the same sentiment in his profile about Daria and some negative moods about what has just happened. He's also hungry, so he makes a meal. Meanwhile, his enemy decided to clean his apartment! She starts with washing their dirty dishes and then takes out their trash. This would be awesome if she had the clean trait, but ... she doesn't.
After he eats, apparently there's really only one thing left to do with a despised enemy you've just been in a fist fight with...
DANCE!! Yep, despite her being in an angry mood, they dance together and gain friendship points.
So I begin to wonder, well maybe they've added some kind of rejection to all this friendly banter. Maybe with these new sentiments, if I try to make enemies use friendly interactions, they'll brush off the other sim. So I choose Brighten day and wait to see how Daria reacts...
My conclusion: Even with sentiments unlocking some new emotional moodlets and one social interaction, the issue remains. Emotions and the number of moodlets were never really the problem in the first place. Its the automated scripting that chooses interactions from the Friendly Category that is the problem. So I continue to ask, please @SimGuruGraham, @SimGuruNinja, add some depth and real meaning to enemy relationships by greying out friendly options so neither the automated scripting nor the player can choose them. Leave apologise and find common ground available so the player has a way of mending the relationship. I sincerely believe that this small update could make a significant difference in the quality of gameplay.
I still love playing the Sims 4, and I adore my two case study sims , and as a Control Freak Extraordinaire I'll continue to have a blast bossing them around, insulting each other and getting them into fights, with hope that this feedback is heard so that automatic hugs between enemies can be a thing of the past.
I'm done with this specific bit of feedback but please players, continue to talk about this issue, leave your own evidence and thoughts and feelings about this issue, and if anyone reading this agrees completely and is anxious to see some results, please feel free to link this thread to twitter, where we may get a better result of bringing this to the devs attention.
Happy simming.
I have tested a married couple in Sims 4 where they went at each other with mean interactions and fought until both bars are red, yet they would still chat like best friends and could still woohoo! There should actually be consequences for being abusive.