I played The Sims 2 here and there when I was a lot younger, and I've been playing The Sims 4 pretty regularly lately. I enjoy the zaney things we've gotten from the series, and as fun as I still personally find it, TS4 is still very lacking. Nothing dynamic or "real" about relationships. The team couldn't even be bothered setting some sort of story for each pre-made household in the game...
I want what a majority of what the fanbase has asked for. The better skintones, cars, bunk beds, etc. I don't even really mind all that much that babies are objects, but I can totally understand why people want them to be improved and fully back it up. What I want though at the moment is Sims that feel real and fleshed out. Sims with wants, fears, memories, and lasting relationships, whether they're good or bad. You can have two Sims despise each other in TS2 and they'll probably fight each other any chance they get, among other things. TS4, you can be fully in the red with another Sim, and just as easily keep talking to them as if you aren't supposed to be complete enemies! Dating and marriage feel like friends-with-benefits also, and children and teens feel like roommates more than actual children, even with Parenthood.
I can still have fun with this game of course, even without mods sometimes. But just knowing all that we're missing that we've gotten in previous games, especially the sweet, sweet content and interactions in TS2... It can really bum someone out.
I don't think they are purposely trying to baby the game. They are more international then ever and some countries are really strict about what is considered as inappropriate. This way ANYBODY of any country, religion or age can play it. I believe that's their main intention.
Just as a lot of those 3d kids movies are actually made for kids and adults to enjoy.
Though I personally don't like the silly childish aspect they have chosen.
But I also believe they are just following trends as every other company does. I would say I'm still in the target range and one thing I'm pretty sure of is "most" simmers of any age all want the same thing. The only rift is occult vs realism players.
I want what everybody else wants and I have since I first played this game as a child. I fell in love with the maturity of it and the fact that there is no other sandbox game where you live life and do whatever the heck you want.
Of course We all have things unique to us that we want to see in the game. It's impossible to please us all. But what I think we can all agree on is that we want depth and things that add to the sandbox freedom and infinite possibilities.
Just being able to sit in different relaxed positions on the couch or counter, and to sit on the floor is the little seemingly meaningless details that most simmers would go crazy for. I know I would 🤭
Forget the big flashy stuff.
When I was playing TS1, I liked the cake dancer, the sound it would play when a prowler was approaching, and making mooney eyes at the headmaster to let my kid into private school. I also downloaded all of the CC from 7 Deadly Sims—they had the bomb TS1 sets. I also loved making Baked Alaska and Lobster Thermidor in TS2. Marco Polo, soccer, catch, and other group activities were always fun too. LOL for me I guess it’s always been the little things!
Playing TS4, I still like all of those things but they don’t exist in the game so 🤷🏽♀️
I can only tell you what I wanted as a 13-year-old girl...and I wasn't a "typical" 13-year-old girl in terms of interests anyway, so...
At 13, I wanted games that allowed me to go on adventures, solve tricky environmental and logistical problems, come up with and implement effective strategies, experience an awesome story and world, and express my creativity in some way (character creation, team composition, strategies, or just making a full-on game like in the PS1 version of RPG Maker). So, as a teenager, I gravitated toward JRPG's, strategy games, fighting games, creature breeding and battle sims, and Neopets (yes, I was in high school with a Neopets account).
I don't think the problem is that they're trying to get "modern teen girls" to play this game. I think the problem is that they're trying to get what they imagine is the "typical teen girl" to play this game: All fluff-headed fashion, boys, celeb obsession, and glitter types who've never picked up a dang controller before. They need to face the fact that their main audience for this series in terms of young females has always been nerdy girls who don't care as much (or at all) about any of that junk, are probably socially awkward as heck, like building stuff and/or designing their own OC's, more than likely have written at least one piece of fan fiction, may or may not be part of the furry fandom, likely read fantasy and/or sci-fi novels of some kind, and probably have already played at least one other video game before--likely an RPG, platformer, virtual pet, or creature collection/battle game. Those girls still exist today.
Imo it may look like EA/Maxis is catering to an younger crowd but there is an reason they are doing so as I do remember the controversy surrounding the beginning Sims 4 referring to the engine from an cancelled project. It would be fitting to cater to an young crowd that had not experienced features that veteran players did so in some instances they probably felt new players would not miss the experience and they really did not want to invest in an new engine that would cost money and figured they would add some if not all features as they felt the engine would allow. It may have been more of an technical strategy in the guise of an marketing one. But sometimes precedence can work against you especially when most veteran players do notice an change in the series and not new beginners. What they had done would not get them an GOTY title or even close to it and they may get an mention or two and that is it and not even many awards if any was even given. The only thing that most will remember about Sims 4 is the controversies as Sims 3 has it own but it had more options.
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Hi! "typical" teenage girl here! I just want to push against this notion that I've seen here that girls who like typical teenage girl things (fashion, boys, sparkly things) are not all "fluff-headed" idiots that can't tell the difference between a well-developed game and a shallow one. This idea reeks of "I'm not like other girls" and it's really destructive to talk about other women that way. It also feeds into a culture where teenage girls get mocked for existing. Traditional, mainstream femininity does not imply stupidity, and if you feel that way I'd urge you to sit down and think about why you feel that way. Girly girls are not superior to nerdy girls, and vice versa. We can all respect each other's interests without pushing other people down. Let's do better, okay?
I think a better and more nuanced point would be that nerdy teenage girls exist and more "typical" teenage girls also exist, and both love The Sims. The Sims 4's ideal should not be to choose one over the other, but to cater to both, as previous Sims games have. The whole point of a sandbox game is to give players the freedom to play in whatever style best suits them. For example, in The Sims 3, I wasn't really into the occult packs, but that was okay, because there were packs like Ambitions that let me give all the townies makeovers, or Generations which allowed me to have meaningful family gameplay. More broadly, every expansion pack did what it was supposed to do -- it expanded gameplay in a meaningful way that enhanced every game, not just one playthrough. So, even though I used some packs more than others, I never really cared when something came out that didn't align with my specific interests because the game was deep enough already that I didn't need every single pack to be "my thing." I was also confident that even if the content of the pack wasn't something I was especially interested in, I would still get some value out of it. The same can't be said for The Sims 4 packs, which I usually forget exist unless I'm intentionally playing with one. The problem with The Sims 4 is that they only cater to one specific playstyle instead of trying to create more freedom for the player to choose how they want to play. Additionally, even if you're part of the group that they're focusing on, they still execute those packs poorly, which is why we see so few people (including members of their target audience like me!) that are satisfied with The Sims 4.
So, to answer the question of what young people actually want, the answer is all kinds of things and probably more of the same things that you want than you'd think. My personal wishlist is better family gameplay (literally every Lifestage except YA is empty), a romance pack, and a school pack. The wishlist of another teenage girl would probably look totally different (because all teenage girls are different!! Crazy, right?). But I want to make it clear that the reason I didn't like the Star Wars pack wasn't because it was Star Wars, but because it was poorly executed. The world is filled with oversights (one bathroom in the entire world?? Seriously?) and the missions are shallow and repetitive. I was bored after half an hour. In my opinion, the problem with the Sims 4 isn't the specific target audience they chose, but the consistently poor execution of the packs they make for that target audience, which is why you don't see droves of young people talking about how much they absolutely love The Sims 4. The packs are bad for them, too. My real wishlist isn't for any specific pack, but for them them to listen to player feedback and execute whatever it is that they choose to make well. So... what you want.
Hi! "typical" teenage girl here! I just want to push against this notion that I've seen here that girls who like typical teenage girl things (fashion, boys, sparkly things) are not all "fluff-headed" 🌺🌺🌺🌺 that can't tell the difference between a well-developed game and a shallow one. This idea reeks of "I'm not like other girls" and it's really destructive to talk about other women that way. It also feeds into a culture where teenage girls get mocked for existing. Traditional, mainstream femininity does not imply stupidity, and if you feel that way I'd urge you to sit down and think about why you feel that way. Girly girls are not superior to nerdy girls, and vice versa. We can all respect each other's interests without pushing other people down. Let's do better, okay?
I think a better and more nuanced point would be that nerdy teenage girls exist and more "typical" teenage girls also exist, and both love The Sims. The Sims 4's ideal should not be to choose one over the other, but to cater to both, as previous Sims games have. The whole point of a sandbox game is to give players the freedom to play in whatever style best suits them. For example, in The Sims 3, I wasn't really into the occult packs, but that was okay, because there were packs like Ambitions that let me give all the townies makeovers, or Generations which allowed me to have meaningful family gameplay. More broadly, every expansion pack did what it was supposed to do -- it expanded gameplay in a meaningful way that enhanced every game, not just one playthrough. So, even though I used some packs more than others, I never really cared when something came out that didn't align with my specific interests because the game was deep enough already that I didn't need every single pack to be "my thing." I was also confident that even if the content of the pack wasn't something I was especially interested in, I would still get some value out of it. The same can't be said for The Sims 4 packs, which I usually forget exist unless I'm intentionally playing with one. The problem with The Sims 4 is that they only cater to one specific playstyle instead of trying to create more freedom for the player to choose how they want to play. Additionally, even if you're part of the group that they're focusing on, they still execute those packs poorly, which is why we see so few people (including members of their target audience like me!) that are satisfied with The Sims 4.
So, to answer the question of what young people actually want, the answer is all kinds of things and probably more of the same things that you want than you'd think. My personal wishlist is better family gameplay (literally every Lifestage except YA is empty), a romance pack, and a school pack. The wishlist of another teenage girl would probably look totally different (because all teenage girls are different!! Crazy, right?). But I want to make it clear that the reason I didn't like the Star Wars pack wasn't because it was Star Wars, but because it was poorly executed. The world is filled with oversights (one bathroom in the entire world?? Seriously?) and the missions are shallow and repetitive. I was bored after half an hour. In my opinion, the problem with the Sims 4 isn't the specific target audience they chose, but the consistently poor execution of the packs they make for that target audience, which is why you don't see droves of young people talking about how much they absolutely love The Sims 4. The packs are bad for them, too. My real wishlist isn't for any specific pack, but for them them to listen to player feedback and execute whatever it is that they choose to make well. So... what you want.
Never said that I thought being more traditionally feminine means being fluff-headed. I was just pointing out how society (especially the people who are in charge of making "girls' media") tends to think about what a "typical" girl is or wants in general, especially teenaged girls (as illustrated by the quotes around the word). Usually, they see making something for girls as having to take all of the flavor out--making Barbie painfully fragile in all her game appearances, toning down anything weird or scary or negative in any way, etc.--because they think that all most girls want is a bland blob of innocuous fluff which, as you've demonstrated, isn't true even for more traditionally feminine girls.
I agree with you that the biggest problem is this game's sloppy and inconsistent execution...and the sloppiness is likely because of that view that girls don't want depth or challenge in a game (or at all) because we're "dumb, fragile, and easily frightened and frustrated little things" (<--read with a faux southern belle accent for ultimate sarcastic emphasis), and should only be tossed the half-baked, dirt-easy, dry salad of the gaming world when what we all want is a nice, juicy hunk of hot, well-seasoned digital STEAK (or a hot, juicy, well-seasoned digital PORTOBELLO MUSHROOM BURGER if you're not a meat-eater). The sooner the gaming industry finally shakes the idea that they can get away with putting out sub-standard trash if a game is "made for girls," the better off we'll all be.
> @SimsLovinLycan said: > (Quote) > > Never said that I thought being more traditionally feminine means being fluff-headed. I was just pointing out how society (especially the people who are in charge of making "girls' media") tends to think about what a "typical" girl is or wants in general, especially teenaged girls (as illustrated by the quotes around the word). Usually, they see making something for girls as having to take all of the flavor out--making Barbie painfully fragile in all her game appearances, toning down anything weird or scary or negative in any way, etc.--because they think that all most girls want is a bland blob of innocuous fluff which, as you've demonstrated, isn't true even for more traditionally feminine girls. > > I agree with you that the biggest problem is this game's sloppy and inconsistent execution...and the sloppiness is likely because of that view that girls don't want depth or challenge in a game (or at all) because we're "dumb, fragile, and easily frightened and frustrated little things" (<--read with a faux southern belle accent for ultimate sarcastic emphasis), and should only be tossed the half-baked, dirt-easy, dry salad of the gaming world when what we all want is a nice, juicy hunk of hot, well-seasoned digital STEAK (or a hot, juicy, well-seasoned digital PORTOBELLO MUSHROOM BURGER if you're not a meat-eater). The sooner the gaming industry finally shakes the idea that they can get away with putting out sub-standard trash if a game is "made for girls," the better off we'll all be.
I totally agree, and thank you for responding so kindly and thoughtfully. Sometimes it's really hard to tell what people really mean on the internet, so thank you for clearing it up! I totally misread a lot of your quotation marks and ideas, which makes me think that there's probably a lot of other people who might misread it that way, so I just wish you had made your actual ideas clearer with your original post. You started out by talking about how you weren't a "'typical' teenage girl in terms of interests", proceeded to list all of the things you liked that deviated (or at least that the previous statement implied deviated) from what most teenage girls liked (adventures, problem-solving, well-designed world, creativity... you see how this would read as "I'm not like other girls, I have a brain"), called the interests of even the societally-constructed typical teenage girl "junk" (which implies that those are not valid things to be interested in, which still feeds into the "I'm not like other girls" bs because there are absolutely lots of teenage girls whose main interests are those things and there's nothing wrong with that), and then implied that the problem with The Sims is that they're ignoring the fact that their main audience is composed of nerdy girls. I think the main problem I had with what you said is that you failed to make the distinction between interests (which would lend itself to a question like should the Sims make a Star Wars pack or a Romance pack?) and complexity of the content generated by those interests. It's just as easy to do a shallow sci-fi pack as a shallow celebrity pack, which The Sims 4 has clearly demonstrated for us. You implied that the problem with the Sims is that they were making the game for the wrong kind of girl who was into the wrong kinds of things. You never actually said that the problem was them dumbing down the game to appease this imaginary fragile girl who can't tell the difference. What you said was that the problem was that they geared it towards their imagined, stereotypical girly-girl instead of the nerds, who are their real audience, which cheapens the really important point that you made in your second post, which is that all girls (and people) who play a video game want it to be deep, challenging, and complex regardless of whether we like sci-fi or Keeping Up With the Kardashians. Again, I don't think you actually meant any of this, I just think it's really easy to misread it that way given how you presented your really important ideas. Placing emphasis on the kind of girl they market the game towards distracted the reader from the critical point, which is that they need to start marketing the game towards real women with real brains, whose interests are all over the place and include the stereotypical ones you pointed out, instead of imagined ones.
I 100% agree that the idea that games can get away with being dumbed down if they're made for girls is at fault for a lot of the problems with The Sims 4, and it's not something that I see discussed on these forums a lot so I think it's really great that you brought that point up. I just wish that's what you had focused on in your original post since of implying that there is something about the interests of stereotypical teenager girls that inherently lends itself to shallow gameplay in a way that the interests of nerdy girls does not instead of placing the blame for shallow gameplay (which you later do, which is awesome!) where it rightfully belongs, at the feet of the developers.
I know that you didn't mean any of those things, but I just think it's super important (and I think you'd agree) to make that distinction really clear because I know there's a lot of people who would read your original post, make the same incorrect assumptions about what you meant that I did, but then believe them, which is part of the reason why the content we're getting in The Sims is so poorly-fleshed out.
Young people, also known as 'Millennials', are human beings who became young adults in the 21st century. Most have been born into a world of affluence and relative wealth according to their societal status. Consumerism is normal and encouraged, Materialism is their religion and their God. 'Stuff Packs' are their idea of progress!
But seriously, this generation of young people generally WANT what the government tells them they want. They believe in their social media updates and are easily manipulated and influenced by those social platforms. I know and work with a lot of young people and they don't tend to question what the media/government is telling them. Everything that isn't governmental in origin or isn't verified by 'experts', or isn't on the 10'o'clock news is a big fat false conspiracy theory.
Young people want an easy life.
No-K, boomer. No way, no way, and ... NO WAY. ... You haven't seen actual politics of Millennials and younger??!!!!
@rinabooboo I agree except sometimes a nerdy girl is also a girly girl, too!
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Keep in mind that there is a wide range of players with a wide range of interests. A variety of different kinds of packs allows us players to pick and choose what we add to our games. I could make a list of the packs I'm not interested in and it's probably different from yours.
As a standalone pack, Journey to Batuu doesn't interest me much -- but as a place my Geek Sims can go for a vacation after graduating from University, whether they do the missions or just score enough credits at Sabaac to get a droid, it's a good addition. In other words, it's not going to be for all my Sims, but only selected ones...just like only certain Sims go exploring in the jungles of Selvadorada, live in Sulani, or have a pet hamster.
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The world and people have changed since TS1 and it's not looking to good for the human race. If EA keeps listening to the "Me" generation then I am afraid all hope is lost for the Sims.
The world and people have changed since TS1 and it's not looking to good for the human race. If EA keeps listening to the "Me" generation then I am afraid all hope is lost for the Sims.
Which "'Me' generation? Baby Boomers? Gen X? Millennials? Gen Z? Because all four of those generations have been given that brand at some point...
The world and people have changed since TS1 and it's not looking to good for the human race. If EA keeps listening to the "Me" generation then I am afraid all hope is lost for the Sims.
Which "'Me' generation? Baby Boomers? Gen X? Millennials? Gen Z? Because all four of those generations have been given that brand at some point...
I'm a Millenial (almost 38 here, born in the first couple weeks of 1983) . So not who they are aiming for, haha. I was an adult when I started playing sims 1 (19) but I played the same way mostly... it's always been about parenting/raising lots of kids for me haha!
I think dif people want diff things regardless of age though
I am born 1972. I loved Sid's games as a kid so when Sims 1 came out I bought it on release day. For me, SIms 2 was the pinnacle. Sims 3 was slightly worse and Sims 4 was... beautiful but almost as shallow as Sims 1 but in a different way. Sims 1 was primarely a GAME, meaning it was quite likely that you actually would get a game over due to all Sim dying in your household. Sims 4 is almost impossible to fail at. As I have stated elsewere you get rich so easily that unless you deliberately try to fail you WILL be able to buy the most expensive pre-made house in the game before turning Elder for your first generation.
Anyway, I admit I like the "Young Adult Simulator" part; I have always hated kids, in all Sims games. I also have no kids IRL. However I can appreciate that the generational features in Sims 4 are miles behind those in 2 and 3 and I fully understand the frustration.
Besides, even the "Young Adult Simulator" parts are lacking severely in this game.
Yeah @TamakiSakura84 I agree. But it’s more of a subcategory and not well-known. It’s good that you see the distinction though, I appreciate that!
I am also a Xennial. Generation Oregon Trail forever
I didn't encounter The Sims until I was an adult, but I've always been about family play since I started. When I was little, my Barbie dolls were mostly family play too, mixed in with a little royalty/magic (gotta incorporate those My Little Ponies!)
Hello! Male Millennial here. I would like a more in-depth connection within the game. I was chatting to my better half just last night about how TS4 hasn't held my interest quite like TS2 did! Have I "grown" out of it? Not sure. However, I think it's more the lack of meaningful gameplay and connections between Sims...
Connections, exactly. I would love to see more meaningful interactions between Sims. I'd also like to see differences between types of relationships -- family, friends, lovers, life partners, enemies. For me, TS4 has the blandest and most sanitized relationships in the franchise.
I'd love to see more ways play with a toddler, for example, beyond the one sparkly, teleportation extravaganza. More ways to play with the kids. More bonding activities for parents and teens.
Romance needs to be rebuilt practically from the ground up. Once the woohoo is over, what's the incentive to move beyond that? committed couples aren't much different fro the casual hookup.
Regrettably, my opinion as an adult of a certain age has no value.
I don't know, when I was younger playing the series, I always loved content that made me feel like I was playing an adult game. In my young teens, I liked the feeling of sort of living vicariously through my adult Sims as they did things adults do.
That's why I really don't feel like even young teens today appreciate the sense of humor that The Sims 4 has. Angry poops, stupid/unfunny quotes in the rolling tips during loading screens, Sims always smiling and walking in a jig motion like they're on Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, bright sunshine daisy environments 24/7... Nah. I would've tossed the game aside. Give me the happy vibes, but don't forget to throw in the grunge and dark side of things, too. They're just as important.
Oh, and how could I forget those trailers? The narrator for the newer packs sounds like she's marketing a game to 5 year olds with a screechy voice and over-the-top enthusiasm. I just can't express how much younger me would've passed so hard on the game. That's why I feel like they're not even catering to the younger crowd. They're just off track, marketing especially, all throughout TS4.
I don't know, when I was younger playing the series, I always loved content that made me feel like I was playing an adult game. In my young teens, I liked the feeling of sort of living vicariously through my adult Sims as they did things adults do.
That's why I really don't feel like even young teens today appreciate the sense of humor that The Sims 4 has. Angry poops, stupid/unfunny quotes in the rolling tips during loading screens, Sims always smiling and walking in a jig motion like they're on Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, bright sunshine daisy environments 24/7... Nah. I would've tossed the game aside. Give me the happy vibes, but don't forget to throw in the grunge and dark side of things, too. They're just as important.
Oh, and how could I forget those trailers? The narrator for the newer packs sounds like she's marketing a game to 5 year olds with a screechy voice and over-the-top enthusiasm. I just can't express how much younger me would've passed so hard on the game. That's why I feel like they're not even catering to the younger crowd. They're just off track, marketing especially, all throughout TS4.
I have always leaned towards the idealistic-realistic. In Sims 4 terms: I was not interested in Supernaturals (except for vampires, because well... fangs are hot) but neither in Laundry, but I loved Tiny Living, City living and Island living.
It might have to do with what other games I play but no other game series CAN give me that. Supernaturals? Hello Skyrim! Or Pathfinder! Or Divine Divinity 2! or... Sci fi? Hello Fallout, Mass Effect and X-COM. And so on. I play enough other types of games that the only itch I cannot get scratched any other way is basically basic happy realistic living.
I don't know, when I was younger playing the series, I always loved content that made me feel like I was playing an adult game. In my young teens, I liked the feeling of sort of living vicariously through my adult Sims as they did things adults do.
That's why I really don't feel like even young teens today appreciate the sense of humor that The Sims 4 has. Angry poops, stupid/unfunny quotes in the rolling tips during loading screens, Sims always smiling and walking in a jig motion like they're on Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, bright sunshine daisy environments 24/7... Nah. I would've tossed the game aside. Give me the happy vibes, but don't forget to throw in the grunge and dark side of things, too. They're just as important.
Oh, and how could I forget those trailers? The narrator for the newer packs sounds like she's marketing a game to 5 year olds with a screechy voice and over-the-top enthusiasm. I just can't express how much younger me would've passed so hard on the game. That's why I feel like they're not even catering to the younger crowd. They're just off track, marketing especially, all throughout TS4.
I have always leaned towards the idealistic-realistic. In Sims 4 terms: I was not interested in Supernaturals (except for vampires, because well... fangs are hot) but neither in Laundry, but I loved Tiny Living, City living and Island living.
It might have to do with what other games I play but no other game series CAN give me that. Supernaturals? Hello Skyrim! Or Pathfinder! Or Divine Divinity 2! or... Sci fi? Hello Fallout, Mass Effect and X-COM. And so on. I play enough other types of games that the only itch I cannot get scratched any other way is basically basic happy realistic living.
Yeah, I tend to gravitate towards the realistic type of content, too. Given the choice of a supernatural pack or farming, I'd pick farming any day of the week.
I still like the fantasy, sci-fi, adventuring, etc. additions to the series, and I do buy/play them when I'm in the mood. I just feel The Sims hits a theme that other games don't. And I don't think TS4 accurately portrays realism that well at all, either. Misfortune, challenges, fears, risks, etc. are all essential.
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I want what a majority of what the fanbase has asked for. The better skintones, cars, bunk beds, etc. I don't even really mind all that much that babies are objects, but I can totally understand why people want them to be improved and fully back it up. What I want though at the moment is Sims that feel real and fleshed out. Sims with wants, fears, memories, and lasting relationships, whether they're good or bad. You can have two Sims despise each other in TS2 and they'll probably fight each other any chance they get, among other things. TS4, you can be fully in the red with another Sim, and just as easily keep talking to them as if you aren't supposed to be complete enemies! Dating and marriage feel like friends-with-benefits also, and children and teens feel like roommates more than actual children, even with Parenthood.
I can still have fun with this game of course, even without mods sometimes. But just knowing all that we're missing that we've gotten in previous games, especially the sweet, sweet content and interactions in TS2... It can really bum someone out.
Just as a lot of those 3d kids movies are actually made for kids and adults to enjoy.
Though I personally don't like the silly childish aspect they have chosen.
But I also believe they are just following trends as every other company does. I would say I'm still in the target range and one thing I'm pretty sure of is "most" simmers of any age all want the same thing. The only rift is occult vs realism players.
I want what everybody else wants and I have since I first played this game as a child. I fell in love with the maturity of it and the fact that there is no other sandbox game where you live life and do whatever the heck you want.
Of course We all have things unique to us that we want to see in the game. It's impossible to please us all. But what I think we can all agree on is that we want depth and things that add to the sandbox freedom and infinite possibilities.
Just being able to sit in different relaxed positions on the couch or counter, and to sit on the floor is the little seemingly meaningless details that most simmers would go crazy for. I know I would 🤭
Forget the big flashy stuff.
You're a Xennial.
I think you just hurt your argument.
"what do young people want"
Phones! Apps! More phones and more apps!
(kidding)
Playing TS4, I still like all of those things but they don’t exist in the game so 🤷🏽♀️
At 13, I wanted games that allowed me to go on adventures, solve tricky environmental and logistical problems, come up with and implement effective strategies, experience an awesome story and world, and express my creativity in some way (character creation, team composition, strategies, or just making a full-on game like in the PS1 version of RPG Maker). So, as a teenager, I gravitated toward JRPG's, strategy games, fighting games, creature breeding and battle sims, and Neopets (yes, I was in high school with a Neopets account).
I don't think the problem is that they're trying to get "modern teen girls" to play this game. I think the problem is that they're trying to get what they imagine is the "typical teen girl" to play this game: All fluff-headed fashion, boys, celeb obsession, and glitter types who've never picked up a dang controller before. They need to face the fact that their main audience for this series in terms of young females has always been nerdy girls who don't care as much (or at all) about any of that junk, are probably socially awkward as heck, like building stuff and/or designing their own OC's, more than likely have written at least one piece of fan fiction, may or may not be part of the furry fandom, likely read fantasy and/or sci-fi novels of some kind, and probably have already played at least one other video game before--likely an RPG, platformer, virtual pet, or creature collection/battle game. Those girls still exist today.
I think a better and more nuanced point would be that nerdy teenage girls exist and more "typical" teenage girls also exist, and both love The Sims. The Sims 4's ideal should not be to choose one over the other, but to cater to both, as previous Sims games have. The whole point of a sandbox game is to give players the freedom to play in whatever style best suits them. For example, in The Sims 3, I wasn't really into the occult packs, but that was okay, because there were packs like Ambitions that let me give all the townies makeovers, or Generations which allowed me to have meaningful family gameplay. More broadly, every expansion pack did what it was supposed to do -- it expanded gameplay in a meaningful way that enhanced every game, not just one playthrough. So, even though I used some packs more than others, I never really cared when something came out that didn't align with my specific interests because the game was deep enough already that I didn't need every single pack to be "my thing." I was also confident that even if the content of the pack wasn't something I was especially interested in, I would still get some value out of it. The same can't be said for The Sims 4 packs, which I usually forget exist unless I'm intentionally playing with one. The problem with The Sims 4 is that they only cater to one specific playstyle instead of trying to create more freedom for the player to choose how they want to play. Additionally, even if you're part of the group that they're focusing on, they still execute those packs poorly, which is why we see so few people (including members of their target audience like me!) that are satisfied with The Sims 4.
So, to answer the question of what young people actually want, the answer is all kinds of things and probably more of the same things that you want than you'd think. My personal wishlist is better family gameplay (literally every Lifestage except YA is empty), a romance pack, and a school pack. The wishlist of another teenage girl would probably look totally different (because all teenage girls are different!! Crazy, right?). But I want to make it clear that the reason I didn't like the Star Wars pack wasn't because it was Star Wars, but because it was poorly executed. The world is filled with oversights (one bathroom in the entire world?? Seriously?) and the missions are shallow and repetitive. I was bored after half an hour. In my opinion, the problem with the Sims 4 isn't the specific target audience they chose, but the consistently poor execution of the packs they make for that target audience, which is why you don't see droves of young people talking about how much they absolutely love The Sims 4. The packs are bad for them, too. My real wishlist isn't for any specific pack, but for them them to listen to player feedback and execute whatever it is that they choose to make well. So... what you want.
Never said that I thought being more traditionally feminine means being fluff-headed. I was just pointing out how society (especially the people who are in charge of making "girls' media") tends to think about what a "typical" girl is or wants in general, especially teenaged girls (as illustrated by the quotes around the word). Usually, they see making something for girls as having to take all of the flavor out--making Barbie painfully fragile in all her game appearances, toning down anything weird or scary or negative in any way, etc.--because they think that all most girls want is a bland blob of innocuous fluff which, as you've demonstrated, isn't true even for more traditionally feminine girls.
I agree with you that the biggest problem is this game's sloppy and inconsistent execution...and the sloppiness is likely because of that view that girls don't want depth or challenge in a game (or at all) because we're "dumb, fragile, and easily frightened and frustrated little things" (<--read with a faux southern belle accent for ultimate sarcastic emphasis), and should only be tossed the half-baked, dirt-easy, dry salad of the gaming world when what we all want is a nice, juicy hunk of hot, well-seasoned digital STEAK (or a hot, juicy, well-seasoned digital PORTOBELLO MUSHROOM BURGER if you're not a meat-eater). The sooner the gaming industry finally shakes the idea that they can get away with putting out sub-standard trash if a game is "made for girls," the better off we'll all be.
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> Never said that I thought being more traditionally feminine means being fluff-headed. I was just pointing out how society (especially the people who are in charge of making "girls' media") tends to think about what a "typical" girl is or wants in general, especially teenaged girls (as illustrated by the quotes around the word). Usually, they see making something for girls as having to take all of the flavor out--making Barbie painfully fragile in all her game appearances, toning down anything weird or scary or negative in any way, etc.--because they think that all most girls want is a bland blob of innocuous fluff which, as you've demonstrated, isn't true even for more traditionally feminine girls.
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> I agree with you that the biggest problem is this game's sloppy and inconsistent execution...and the sloppiness is likely because of that view that girls don't want depth or challenge in a game (or at all) because we're "dumb, fragile, and easily frightened and frustrated little things" (<--read with a faux southern belle accent for ultimate sarcastic emphasis), and should only be tossed the half-baked, dirt-easy, dry salad of the gaming world when what we all want is a nice, juicy hunk of hot, well-seasoned digital STEAK (or a hot, juicy, well-seasoned digital PORTOBELLO MUSHROOM BURGER if you're not a meat-eater). The sooner the gaming industry finally shakes the idea that they can get away with putting out sub-standard trash if a game is "made for girls," the better off we'll all be.
I totally agree, and thank you for responding so kindly and thoughtfully. Sometimes it's really hard to tell what people really mean on the internet, so thank you for clearing it up! I totally misread a lot of your quotation marks and ideas, which makes me think that there's probably a lot of other people who might misread it that way, so I just wish you had made your actual ideas clearer with your original post. You started out by talking about how you weren't a "'typical' teenage girl in terms of interests", proceeded to list all of the things you liked that deviated (or at least that the previous statement implied deviated) from what most teenage girls liked (adventures, problem-solving, well-designed world, creativity... you see how this would read as "I'm not like other girls, I have a brain"), called the interests of even the societally-constructed typical teenage girl "junk" (which implies that those are not valid things to be interested in, which still feeds into the "I'm not like other girls" bs because there are absolutely lots of teenage girls whose main interests are those things and there's nothing wrong with that), and then implied that the problem with The Sims is that they're ignoring the fact that their main audience is composed of nerdy girls. I think the main problem I had with what you said is that you failed to make the distinction between interests (which would lend itself to a question like should the Sims make a Star Wars pack or a Romance pack?) and complexity of the content generated by those interests. It's just as easy to do a shallow sci-fi pack as a shallow celebrity pack, which The Sims 4 has clearly demonstrated for us. You implied that the problem with the Sims is that they were making the game for the wrong kind of girl who was into the wrong kinds of things. You never actually said that the problem was them dumbing down the game to appease this imaginary fragile girl who can't tell the difference. What you said was that the problem was that they geared it towards their imagined, stereotypical girly-girl instead of the nerds, who are their real audience, which cheapens the really important point that you made in your second post, which is that all girls (and people) who play a video game want it to be deep, challenging, and complex regardless of whether we like sci-fi or Keeping Up With the Kardashians. Again, I don't think you actually meant any of this, I just think it's really easy to misread it that way given how you presented your really important ideas. Placing emphasis on the kind of girl they market the game towards distracted the reader from the critical point, which is that they need to start marketing the game towards real women with real brains, whose interests are all over the place and include the stereotypical ones you pointed out, instead of imagined ones.
I 100% agree that the idea that games can get away with being dumbed down if they're made for girls is at fault for a lot of the problems with The Sims 4, and it's not something that I see discussed on these forums a lot so I think it's really great that you brought that point up. I just wish that's what you had focused on in your original post since of implying that there is something about the interests of stereotypical teenager girls that inherently lends itself to shallow gameplay in a way that the interests of nerdy girls does not instead of placing the blame for shallow gameplay (which you later do, which is awesome!) where it rightfully belongs, at the feet of the developers.
I know that you didn't mean any of those things, but I just think it's super important (and I think you'd agree) to make that distinction really clear because I know there's a lot of people who would read your original post, make the same incorrect assumptions about what you meant that I did, but then believe them, which is part of the reason why the content we're getting in The Sims is so poorly-fleshed out.
No-K, boomer. No way, no way, and ... NO WAY. ... You haven't seen actual politics of Millennials and younger??!!!!
@rinabooboo I agree except sometimes a nerdy girl is also a girly girl, too!
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As a standalone pack, Journey to Batuu doesn't interest me much -- but as a place my Geek Sims can go for a vacation after graduating from University, whether they do the missions or just score enough credits at Sabaac to get a droid, it's a good addition. In other words, it's not going to be for all my Sims, but only selected ones...just like only certain Sims go exploring in the jungles of Selvadorada, live in Sulani, or have a pet hamster.
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Which "'Me' generation? Baby Boomers? Gen X? Millennials? Gen Z? Because all four of those generations have been given that brand at some point...
Usually by the generation they supersede.
I think dif people want diff things regardless of age though
Anyway, I admit I like the "Young Adult Simulator" part; I have always hated kids, in all Sims games. I also have no kids IRL. However I can appreciate that the generational features in Sims 4 are miles behind those in 2 and 3 and I fully understand the frustration.
Besides, even the "Young Adult Simulator" parts are lacking severely in this game.
I am also a Xennial. Generation Oregon Trail forever
I didn't encounter The Sims until I was an adult, but I've always been about family play since I started. When I was little, my Barbie dolls were mostly family play too, mixed in with a little royalty/magic (gotta incorporate those My Little Ponies!)
Connections, exactly. I would love to see more meaningful interactions between Sims. I'd also like to see differences between types of relationships -- family, friends, lovers, life partners, enemies. For me, TS4 has the blandest and most sanitized relationships in the franchise.
I'd love to see more ways play with a toddler, for example, beyond the one sparkly, teleportation extravaganza. More ways to play with the kids. More bonding activities for parents and teens.
Romance needs to be rebuilt practically from the ground up. Once the woohoo is over, what's the incentive to move beyond that? committed couples aren't much different fro the casual hookup.
Regrettably, my opinion as an adult of a certain age has no value.
That's why I really don't feel like even young teens today appreciate the sense of humor that The Sims 4 has. Angry poops, stupid/unfunny quotes in the rolling tips during loading screens, Sims always smiling and walking in a jig motion like they're on Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, bright sunshine daisy environments 24/7... Nah. I would've tossed the game aside. Give me the happy vibes, but don't forget to throw in the grunge and dark side of things, too. They're just as important.
Oh, and how could I forget those trailers? The narrator for the newer packs sounds like she's marketing a game to 5 year olds with a screechy voice and over-the-top enthusiasm. I just can't express how much younger me would've passed so hard on the game. That's why I feel like they're not even catering to the younger crowd. They're just off track, marketing especially, all throughout TS4.
I have always leaned towards the idealistic-realistic. In Sims 4 terms: I was not interested in Supernaturals (except for vampires, because well... fangs are hot) but neither in Laundry, but I loved Tiny Living, City living and Island living.
It might have to do with what other games I play but no other game series CAN give me that. Supernaturals? Hello Skyrim! Or Pathfinder! Or Divine Divinity 2! or... Sci fi? Hello Fallout, Mass Effect and X-COM. And so on. I play enough other types of games that the only itch I cannot get scratched any other way is basically basic happy realistic living.
Yeah, I tend to gravitate towards the realistic type of content, too. Given the choice of a supernatural pack or farming, I'd pick farming any day of the week.
I still like the fantasy, sci-fi, adventuring, etc. additions to the series, and I do buy/play them when I'm in the mood. I just feel The Sims hits a theme that other games don't. And I don't think TS4 accurately portrays realism that well at all, either. Misfortune, challenges, fears, risks, etc. are all essential.