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NightLife vs The Sims 4

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  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,247 Member
    edited August 22
    Onverser wrote: »
    To put it simply, never.

    To be fair some things they do have an excuse for. In past games, a lot of animations were more tacky and less sleek so they took less time to create. Meshes were also much more simplistic and low poly so they were much simpler and quicker to make aswell. That all means they can create more in less time. And in previous installments, to be frank the build buy and cas that came with packs suckd. Packs were focused much more on gameplay rather than making things look nice.

    The main Sims 4 pack that focuses on gameplay rather than visuals is Get to Work, and people complain no end about how much they hate the world and don't like the items that came with it. With that pack you get open for business and multiple active careers all rolled into one which I think were seperate packs in previous installments but people spend their entire time complaining about it as they don't like the world.


    But yeah TS4 is lacking in a lot of ways, most of which I blame EA for. Way too many restrictions are put on the developers, they have to push out so many different packs every year and EA don't give them the time, resources, or staff numbers to make solid content. Sadly they're stuck under a terrible company which doesn't give them the freedom to make quality content and values quantity over quality.

    I see this here all the time (bolded). How do any of us know this? Way too many restrictions? Who says? They are pushed to make so many different packs every year and EA doesn't give them time? Who says? Are they pumping out more than TS3 teams? Or as fast?

    They don't get enough resources, again who says? Only thing I ever heard from an ex developer for TS4 was that Maxis (not EA) had hired too many producers and not enough developers.

    I keep hearing (fans) they don't have enough staff/developers but Maxis has said they have over one hundred still working on TS4. Maybe they might need some interns to work for free like in the older games? Others, such as game changers say they have way over one hundred people still working on TS4 so no staff isn't a problem. They also don't create all the content but it's out sourced developers or object builders or maybe it was clothes' meshes that are outsourced. So, unlike older games that is not done inhouse.

    People should not say Maxis doesn't get enough money or time from EA without proof because it's said here all the time, and or that Maxis doesn't have enough people working for them to do the work without stressing them out because of shortages in people to do the work. Or false deadlines. I hear often (by fans) Maxis is given some outragous deadlines, when Maxis has said, no they set their own work load, their own deadlines, and they have all the freedom in the world (within company policy) to do whatever they want.

    Some want to blame EA for deadlines that Maxis agreed to do from the beginning. Such as what would be the release time frames for new DLC etc. Those are all agreed upon during the time that EA and Maxis/The Sims Studio decides to do another iteration. It's not like Maxis doesn't get a say in what schedule they can live up to when they go up to headquarters.

    EA is the producer not the creator and Maxis agrees to contracts for them to continue to 'publish' their games. And as they have said recently they are EA. It's like going to a publisher to publish your book, you agree to something like OK, but we need another one in three months, or six months or whatever. You agree and get the money, they expect you to deliver. If you didn't think you could do it, you say no, maybe I need more time. That is all worked out from the beginning.

    As far as other excuses such as saying older meshes were easier and or building the game (for whatever they needed to do) is harder this time. EA also didn't pick the engine, nor the software tools such as Python, nor did EA pick to let go of any engineers that's all on Maxis. The past guru said they had built an engine that wouldn't need engineers later, so they would be able to make all our dreams come true with this engine. Maxis did that, not EA. But was it true, engineers sometimes tell developers, no that won't work with this engine, (example teraforming) and why they are needed for some stuff, but it's Maxis that built TS4's engine, not EA. None of this is actually any of EA's fault if we are unhappy with TS4's lack of gameplay. Except maybe live service which EA is pushing onto all games in some respect or at least a company wide goal. But Maxis agreed to live service didn't they?
    Post edited by Cinebar on
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • OnverserOnverser Posts: 1,340 Member
    edited August 22
    As far as other excuses such as saying older meshes were easier and or building the game (for whatever they needed to do) is harder this time. EA also didn't pick the engine, nor the software tools such as Python, nor did EA pick to let go of any engineers that's all on Maxis.

    Not excuses or blaming EA, that's just the reality of a more up to date game. Making smoother animations and creations takes more time than making clunky lower res ones which means they can create less in the same timeframe.
    I see this here all the time (bolded). How do any of us know this? Way too many restrictions? Who says? They are pushed to make so many different packs every year and EA doesn't give them time? Who says? Are they pumping out more than TS3 teams? Or as fast?

    They don't get enough resources, again who says? Only thing I ever heard from an ex developer for TS4 was that Maxis (not EA) had hired too many producers and not enough developers.
    Why would any games developer cut back and put half baked content out by choice? They want the game to be the best it can be like players do because the game is their creation. It's the company and higher ups that pay their wages, the developers don't make less if they put out less packs it's the company that makes less.

    Last year there was $130 worth of packs released, 2018 $120, 2017 $110. There's a clear theme of how much value they have to put out every year. Guessing they have to meet this value of packs per year which would be set by a higher power than the devs. Obviously this means having to meet deadlines. If they had a larger team and more resources they could achieve more in the given time.

    Their ambitions being cut short is most clear from Island Living, it's clear they had a lot of things planned and ideas that they wanted to put in but didn't have the time to execute it properly. For example with this pack it had to be ready by summer, which is probably why they didn't have enough time to fully bring everything to life.

    Just look at the bugs team if you want an obvious example of not enough staff and resources, they're always working on stuff and issueing patches once or twice a month and there's still bugs. If they had a larger team more bugs would get fixed.
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  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,247 Member
    edited August 23
    NL is a good example of what can be achieved in less than six months, (a new EP came out twice a year) with a team that manages their time and money better. There is such a thing as work ethic and buggy software is never the fault of a publisher unless they know it and go ahead and try to sell it any way. They would only be to blame when a software developer told them this is a mess, delay the release, and they pushed forward knowing it was a mess and would worry about it later. It's not their fault when programmers know something and say nothing, and or worse programmers don't know they created a mess from lack of forsight and initiative to find out before wrapping it up. When you have one thing that is the main feature of DLC and it doesn't even work, I think they probably knew it before they release something. I don't think there can be much excuse in that.

    What people fail to undestand is things are worked on for years. Then pulled together to sell the DLC. They pull stuff from all over they may have created years ago. It's not like they had to do it all at one time (within a time frame) but do have to find a way to put it altogether to make an impressive pack or game. So, the excuses can't really apply as much as fans allow them to be applied. If anyone thinks EA doesn't give them as much money and time as they did in the past games (look at TS3's time frames) then I'm going to have to go laugh in a corner, seriously. No disrespect to anyone, but compare NL to all of TS4, and knowing how much the other games included and or created compared to TS4's release dates and or content, and then we believe oh, it's a smaller budget,....in 2020....I think we should know better. Salaries don't go down they go up after twenty years. I also assume a lot of that 'budget' went to make 20+ stuff packs.
    Things like that was on Maxis not EA.

    The comments their teams aren't as large was debunked by one of the CMs who stated, no TS4's teams are even more people working than before. Though people pointed out TS3 had two teams for EPs but the CM stated TS4 teams still have many more workers. I have to take them at their word that yes, TS4 has many more on their teams than TS2 or TS3 did.
    Post edited by Cinebar on
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • ClarionOfJoyClarionOfJoy Posts: 1,675 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    The comments their teams aren't as large was debunked by one of the CMs who stated, no TS4's teams are even more people working than before. Though people pointed out TS3 had two teams for EPs but the CM stated TS4 teams still have many more workers. I have to take them at their word that yes, TS4 has many more on their teams than TS2 or TS3 did.


    It doesn't show, lol! :D


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  • simgirl1010simgirl1010 Posts: 18,441 Member
    Nightlife is an awesome pack. I just hope Sims 5 manages to include the best of all four versions and kick it up a notch. I just look forward to a time when we can all enjoy and share the same version and be done with all the comparisons and putdowns.
    Always believe that something wonderful is about to happen. 😊
  • cody6268cody6268 Posts: 360 Member
    Nightlife has so much more stuff itself than does the 3-4 packs we have that allow just some of its functionality in TS4.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,247 Member
    edited August 24
    Nightlife is an awesome pack. I just hope Sims 5 manages to include the best of all four versions and kick it up a notch. I just look forward to a time when we can all enjoy and share the same version and be done with all the comparisons and putdowns.

    That would be great I have always wished for a big mega game of all of them. They sort of bring comparisons onto themselves don't they? By making statements like these will be the smartest Sims ever, you have never seen emotions like these, no, we never had emotions in the other games, we were just good at selling that fiction, and or this will be a major first, and or we are given all the freedom we need to decide what we want to do, and or these are things we really care about and wanted to put it in a game,( rather than what players had requested) and or it's too hard and or too expensive, when it was just as hard and expensive twenty years ago.

    Everything I just said was stated by Maxis so, yeah, I think this comparison in this case one EP against all of TS4 is justified.
    Because in 2020 and the fourth iteratioin and twenty years experience and monies, one little EP shouldn't upset TS4, nor make it feel uncomfortable by comparing it to all of TS4 and it's 50 packs and billion dollars and it's nine or ten years of development (3 before release, 6 after).

    I could have picked any EP from The Sims or even TS3 to compare to all of TS4, it wouldn't have mattered. But I think NL shows what is done about the thousand little pieces they piecemeal out when we all should know there was just as many time contraints, budget shortages and or whatever back in 1998. And I still assume TS4 will never get a fully fleshed out EP such as NL was at the time. Not because they can't but because they don't want to for whatever reasons, which is probalby the green stuff. No more excuses, it's none of the excuses people continue to give them, it's just about money now.

    I could go all the way back to TS1 and compare one EP such as Superstar to all of TS4 and it too would still contain more gameplay and content than all of TS4's piecemeal, wouldn't it.

    When a company puts a number on a serial product it means new and improved. Four is supposed to be better than one or two. It doesn't mean wait, but you will need x amount of this over here for it to be as good if not better as one, but yeah, we are new and improved. Or wait, in order for our fourth product to be as good as two you are going to need to buy all these other attachments to make it as good as two, and then ten more years to bring you any new stuff for our product that two didn't have.
    Post edited by Cinebar on
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • OnverserOnverser Posts: 1,340 Member
    edited August 25
    The comments their teams aren't as large was debunked by one of the CMs who stated, no TS4's teams are even more people working than before. Though people pointed out TS3 had two teams for EPs but the CM stated TS4 teams still have many more workers. I have to take them at their word that yes, TS4 has many more on their teams than TS2 or TS3 did.

    Nobody's saying the team isn't as large as it was before. The point is they have to push out a lot more packs now then they did in TS2 and if they had a larger team or they didn't have to push out as many packs they'd be able to do more with each pack.

    Sims 3 had 20 packs in total (incl stuff packs), Sims 2 had 18 packs in total. Sims 4 has a total of 34 packs already. That's almost double. Now it doesn't take a genius to work out that having to push out a lot more packs in the same timeframe = less content in each one.

    Plus, do you really think EA has no control over their games and they just let the companies under them do whatever? They have a reputation as the most hated video game company for a reason. The company is famous for acquiring smaller companies and milking their games as much as possible with sub par content.

    Maybe actually read my points and have a discussion rather than insisting that other discussion points are just "excuses"?
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  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,247 Member
    edited August 25
    Onverser wrote: »
    The comments their teams aren't as large was debunked by one of the CMs who stated, no TS4's teams are even more people working than before. Though people pointed out TS3 had two teams for EPs but the CM stated TS4 teams still have many more workers. I have to take them at their word that yes, TS4 has many more on their teams than TS2 or TS3 did.

    Nobody's saying the team isn't as large as it was before. The point is they have to push out a lot more packs now then they did in TS2 and if they had a larger team or they didn't have to push out as many packs they'd be able to do more with each pack.

    Sims 3 had 20 packs in total (incl stuff packs), Sims 2 had 18 packs in total. Sims 4 has a total of 34 packs already. That's almost double. Now it doesn't take a genius to work out that having to push out a lot more packs in the same timeframe = less content in each one.

    Plus, do you really think EA has no control over their games and they just let the companies under them do whatever? They have a reputation as the most hated video game company for a reason. The company is famous for acquiring smaller companies and milking their games as much as possible with sub par content.

    Maybe actually read my points and have a discussion rather than insisting that other discussion points are just "excuses"?

    We are having a discussion. But I think you have missed a point, where TS2 had to release on schedule two EPs a year and one stuff pack. TS4 has a bigger team one for stuff packs, one for EPs and one for GPs, and one for free content. I don't see TS4 actually releasing more packs than TS2 had to do. They simply break them down into three instead of one EP. And anything they didn't want to do nor may not have done is released in a content patch. Yes, EA has a say in what they do. For instance, Live Service model requires Maxis release free content ever so often. That's a requirement of Live Service. Not sure how many times a year they were supposed to do that. But it was stated years ago that would be monthly but that never happened. It's been ever so often and not that close as was promised.

    I don't see they released more content per year than TS3, when TS3 released three EPs a year for a few years after they got going. And at least two every year. But I'm not comparing how many packs but how much NL contained in one EP compared to all of TS4's game service. I think you have pretty much made the point TS4 had to release 34 packs so far to get even half the stuff that is in NL. And still we don't have things people still request such as an attraction system. That's called piecemealing and money grab by some. But EA has nothing at all to do with what content Maxis creates, whether it's a suit and or a mini skirt or a talking toilet. All those choices are on the Creative Director and the Producer of a pack. EA has no control over how many chairs they decided to build or if they just use a couch mesh and retexture it or alter it a little to be new content (called reskin) and sold again to the customer as new content.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • NausNaus Posts: 330 Member
    Arguing with TS4's apologist is a waste of time. They'll just bend over backwards to come up with excuses to justify the lack of quality, content and depth in TS4's packs.
  • OnverserOnverser Posts: 1,340 Member
    edited August 25
    Naus wrote: »
    Arguing with TS4's apologist is a waste of time. They'll just bend over backwards to come up with excuses to justify the lack of quality, content and depth in TS4's packs.

    Honey I'm not saying there's no faults I'm saying the faults are down to EA being the awful company we all know they are. If you actually checked my comments rather than jumping to the apologist conclusion you'd see I'm blaming EA for the lack of quality, content and depth in TS4's packs.

    Otherwise for this topic I have nothing more to add, I've made my points pretty clearly but they seem to have been misunderstood somehow.
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  • ClarionOfJoyClarionOfJoy Posts: 1,675 Member
    Onverser wrote: »
    Naus wrote: »
    Arguing with TS4's apologist is a waste of time. They'll just bend over backwards to come up with excuses to justify the lack of quality, content and depth in TS4's packs.

    Honey I'm not saying there's no faults I'm saying the faults are down to EA being the awful company we all know they are. If you actually checked my comments rather than jumping to the apologist conclusion you'd see I'm blaming EA for the lack of quality, content and depth in TS4's packs.

    Otherwise for this topic I have nothing more to add, I've made my points pretty clearly but they seem to have been misunderstood somehow.


    I agree that EA is to blame for a big part of why TS4 is terrible. EA is the one who funds all the development of the games they publish. TS4 was suppose to be an online multiplayer along with SimCity and they poured a lot of money into it. But then SimCity online bombed big and EA decided that they didn't want TS4 to face the same scenario.

    But did anyone think they would be willing to just throw away all that money funding it and start over fresh with new funding for a fully featured game engine? Of course not. They told the devs to recycle TS4: The Multiplayer game and convert it into singleplayer. I don't think any of the devs would have suggested that themselves knowing the state of its game engine and how little it can do.


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  • NausNaus Posts: 330 Member
    I believe some of you are being too lenient towards the developers. Yes, EA sucks and they're probably not giving them enough resources to develop a decent game. EA is also to blame for the whole Olympus debacle and forcing The Sims Team to release it as The Sims 4.

    But The Sims Team is woefully mismanaged and they are to blame for the game being so bad too. Let's not forget that Lynsay wanted to improve babies, but Grant told her not to do it and she caved in, even though she's his boss. And they prioritized things like a talking toilet over working elevators. And who could forget their justification for not including dog houses in C&D?

    I honestly don't believe we'll ever get content-heavy EPs like the ones in TS2 and TS3, but they could definitely be better than what they're giving us right now if The Sims Team wasn't so mismanaged.
  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 5,702 Member
    edited August 26
    Not to mention from a leaked conversation on twitter, it showed that a former staff member admitted that Strangerville was the devs choice. It was their concept, their ideas. Not EA.
    A guru also said (I think Grant) that they have a lot of freedom from EA with regards to packs. So yes EA as a publisher are awful but they aren’t to blame for the game being a hot mess entirely.
  • drakharisdrakharis Posts: 1,194 Member
    edited August 26
    @Cinebar During the time of Sims 1- Sims 3 there was a different CEO for EA. That CEO had a vision and loved games. He was a fan of RPGs like D&D. He wanted to bring the joy of gaming to those through playing video games. He believed video games could be fun and educate people. EA in the beginning and during the company's Golden Age brought us many quality games that we could start and not even realise several hours later we have been playing this game for 6 hours straight. It was a fun time and EA cared about video gamers. They cared about the product they produced and though wanting to make a profit weren't motivated by greed. If they were still motivated like that we wouldn't be having this discussion about so little for so much.

    As you pointed out All Game, Expansion, and Stuff packs are incomplete and cost a lot for so little. With a lack of gameplay, lack of CAS and Build/Buy items and a lot of recycled animation, lack of interesting things in or happening in the game. We pay too much for too little.

    The way to fix it is EA needs to look at how they did things when they made high-quality games and let the companies they bought out, do what they do best. Creating amazing games and let them have the time and resources to do so.

    Playtesting - not just tabletop games and card games any more. Really that should have been playtested in Beta and not [img]just with accounting and marketing but actual players. https://i.imgur.com/t48COW6.jpg[/img]
  • drakharisdrakharis Posts: 1,194 Member
    Onverser wrote: »
    To put it simply, never.

    To be fair some things they do have an excuse for. In past games, a lot of animations were more tacky and less sleek so they took less time to create. Meshes were also much more simplistic and low poly so they were much simpler and quicker to make aswell. That all means they can create more in less time. And in previous installments, to be frank the build buy and cas that came with packs suckd. Packs were focused much more on gameplay rather than making things look nice.

    The main Sims 4 pack that focuses on gameplay rather than visuals is Get to Work, and people complain no end about how much they hate the world and don't like the items that came with it. With that pack you get open for business and multiple active careers all rolled into one which I think were seperate packs in previous installments but people spend their entire time complaining about it as they don't like the world.


    But yeah TS4 is lacking in a lot of ways, most of which I blame EA for. Way too many restrictions are put on the developers, they have to push out so many different packs every year and EA don't give them the time, resources, or staff numbers to make solid content. Sadly they're stuck under a terrible company which doesn't give them the freedom to make quality content and values quantity over quality.

    All video games nowadays are low poly and bake the material on. This allows for less freezing and less glitchy animation. High poly count is used in copy, commercials, film industry with rendering time being where the most time is spent. You get high poly from CC Creators and modders who don't know better or how to use the lowest possible polygon count and good at baking materials on to the model and make it look like something with a higher polycount and more detail added in than there actually is. It's not something they know how to do. I am not saying that as an insult but as a fact. I don't mean to offend any modders and CC creators with that comment. I create content for Daz and Poser all the time for fun.

    It takes as much time for me to create sleek sophisticated animation for an ad or short as it does something over the top cheesy and tacky. Sometimes even less time to do the former over the latter.

    I don't mind less sophisticated graphics over good gameplay. In my opinion, flash and pomp shouldn't take precedence over substance. It's like Kamen Rider Ryuki is better than the first Kamen RIder because the special effects are better when the storyline was horrible with lack of characterization plot and felt more like an extended commercial for Bandai Japan. 1970 technology vs 2002 technology. The technology did not exist to create the same level of special effects. The same can be said about the Sims. 3d modelling has greatly improved making it possible to have better graphics but that doesn't mean decent gameplay has to suffer.
    Playtesting - not just tabletop games and card games any more. Really that should have been playtested in Beta and not [img]just with accounting and marketing but actual players. https://i.imgur.com/t48COW6.jpg[/img]
  • NausNaus Posts: 330 Member
    Onverser wrote: »
    To be fair some things they do have an excuse for. In past games, a lot of animations were more tacky and less sleek so they took less time to create.
    WRONG. Most animations in previous Sims games were considerably more detailed and elaborate than anything we've seen in 4 so far. This video shows exactly what I mean. You can tell animations in 4 have fewer key frames. They may be smoother, but they're considerably more elaborate and time-consuming to make.
    Onverser wrote: »
    Meshes were also much more simplistic and low poly so they were much simpler and quicker to make aswell
    This is ridiculous. Meshes in Sims 2 and 3 are higher poly than meshes in 4. Textures are more detailed as well.

    A simple chair in TS3 has 10 times more polygon than a chair in TS4:
    krBJwUw.pngBCrrEt0.png

    Textures in TS2 may be lower res but have way more details:
    qGvPcK9.pnglEUuRSG.png
    Onverser wrote: »
    That all means they can create more in less time. And in previous installments, to be frank the build buy and cas that came with packs suckd. Packs were focused much more on gameplay rather than making things look nice.
    You may not like the design of the objects and CAS assets in previous games, but they were MASSIVELY superior to anything in TS4. Pillows and cushions have more detailed animations when Sims were sitting in 2, counter could be interacted with, opening the drawer and doors. Every object in TS3 could be recolored and its textures and designed could be changed. Do you have any idea how much effort it takes to make objects with such complexity?

    And here you are, pretending you know what you're talking about but everything that you're saying is factually incorrect.
    Onverser wrote: »
    The main Sims 4 pack that focuses on gameplay rather than visuals is Get to Work, and people complain no end about how much they hate the world and don't like the items that came with it. With that pack you get open for business and multiple active careers all rolled into one which I think were seperate packs in previous installments but people spend their entire time complaining about it as they don't like the world.

    The retail system was broken at launch and considerably inferior to what TS2 OFB offerred. The three active careers were poorly designed, boring, repetitive and had a DM dictating your every move. There was NO DEPTH whatsoever to any of the content in GTW, and that's why people don't care about that EP.

  • troshalomtroshalom Posts: 741 Member
    @Cinebar GTT has the club system which is new to the sims franchise. Also with GTT akin to NL sims invite sims to hangout. But in GTT it is expanded to include exclusive parties, b'day parties, and lots of other variations. There is no comparison of the world(s) in NL to Windenburg. I pulled out my Double Deluxe (base game & NL) is only a 74 page booklet. All of that stuff you can see in game in TS4.

    There are some different functionalities between TS4 & TS2 which makes them both unique games. TS2 integrated well with SimCity and you could take worlds you made in Simcity, port them to TS2 and create a custom world. But in TS4 you get to play all of the worlds with their unique flavors and weather.

    In TS4 all sims age, in TS2 households you don't play freeze their aging. In TS2 all the sims look alike. in TS4 you can really create unique looking sims, and create sims that look almost realistic.

    Miss the matchmaker, then go to the romance festival in CL. Also, think EA is moving away from the racist troupe - gypsy.

    I like that dating is slightly different in both games. So, I get a different playing experience when I play them. And there is attraction in TS4. I know this because I have created single sims who aren't in to each other only to discover they were attracted to a completely different type of sim. So it is different. Do I miss scope the room, yeah, but not a deal breaker.

    GTT has the club system which is different from groups. But sims do form impromptu groups and go out in TS4.

    You got poker in TS2 in TS4 they play cards, a jenga like game, darts, and that table game in bars. You get the dance sphere in TS2 and dance groups in TS4. What I do miss in TS2 is if you have a shy sim, they would dance differently than an outgoing sim. And like you mentioned, sims would point at a bad dancer. But, I am glad the game has evolved and everyone moves and grooves in TS4 with no condemnation.

    The cool thing is you can play and enjoy both games.
    Yes, the EPs in TS2 were huge compared to TS4. Heck, I'm still annoyed that in IL they were so lazy they only put wild plants in one area. That should be fixed in a patch. I also hate they doubled the price of EPs and give you less, but that's everywhere isn't it? You pay more for less & lower quality.

    Personally I think TS4 is most like TS2, but upgraded. Prior to university in TS2 teen sims didn't age up with their friends.
    I think for a game that was launched 6 years ago, you're not going to get EPs akin to TS2. And if TS5 comes out, I think EA wants to move to all online where they nickel & dime you like in the sims mobile games.
    wocka wocka wocka
  • DoodlyDoofusDoodlyDoofus Posts: 749 Member
    The Answer is, Nightlife came out back when EA knew you had to spend money to make money. Now a days it's make money by spending as little as possible. To put things into perspective, game development has jumped up in cost in the 16 years since Nightlife came out. I don't know how much the budget was back in 2004, let's say a couple million or so, now a days a good budget for a game would be...close to a hundred million (I know AAA games go even higher than that, apparently Destiny cost 500 Million to make)....I imagine EA is still giving Maxis the same budget that they had for Nightlife to make modern day Sims games. Would make sense considering....it's all reused animations....
  • NausNaus Posts: 330 Member
    troshalom wrote: »
    Personally I think TS4 is most like TS2, but upgraded.

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    This is a joke, right?
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,247 Member
    edited August 27
    troshalom wrote: »
    @Cinebar GTT has the club system which is new to the sims franchise. Also with GTT akin to NL sims invite sims to hangout. But in GTT it is expanded to include exclusive parties, b'day parties, and lots of other variations. There is no comparison of the world(s) in NL to Windenburg. I pulled out my Double Deluxe (base game & NL) is only a 74 page booklet. All of that stuff you can see in game in TS4.

    There are some different functionalities between TS4 & TS2 which makes them both unique games. TS2 integrated well with SimCity and you could take worlds you made in Simcity, port them to TS2 and create a custom world. But in TS4 you get to play all of the worlds with their unique flavors and weather.

    In TS4 all sims age, in TS2 households you don't play freeze their aging. In TS2 all the sims look alike. in TS4 you can really create unique looking sims, and create sims that look almost realistic.

    Miss the matchmaker, then go to the romance festival in CL. Also, think EA is moving away from the racist troupe - gypsy.

    I like that dating is slightly different in both games. So, I get a different playing experience when I play them. And there is attraction in TS4. I know this because I have created single sims who aren't in to each other only to discover they were attracted to a completely different type of sim. So it is different. Do I miss scope the room, yeah, but not a deal breaker.

    GTT has the club system which is different from groups. But sims do form impromptu groups and go out in TS4.

    You got poker in TS2 in TS4 they play cards, a jenga like game, darts, and that table game in bars. You get the dance sphere in TS2 and dance groups in TS4. What I do miss in TS2 is if you have a shy sim, they would dance differently than an outgoing sim. And like you mentioned, sims would point at a bad dancer. But, I am glad the game has evolved and everyone moves and grooves in TS4 with no condemnation.

    The cool thing is you can play and enjoy both games.
    Yes, the EPs in TS2 were huge compared to TS4. Heck, I'm still annoyed that in IL they were so lazy they only put wild plants in one area. That should be fixed in a patch. I also hate they doubled the price of EPs and give you less, but that's everywhere isn't it? You pay more for less & lower quality.

    Personally I think TS4 is most like TS2, but upgraded. Prior to university in TS2 teen sims didn't age up with their friends.
    I think for a game that was launched 6 years ago, you're not going to get EPs akin to TS2. And if TS5 comes out, I think EA wants to move to all online where they nickel & dime you like in the sims mobile games.

    I think people don't understand they don't actually need SC4 to build custom worlds because NL came with empty templates to build your own towns. A new template was added (in four terrains) with each new world. Also, I don't get where people say you can travel between worlds in TS4, ok, but you could add any Subworld to any Main world in TS2. You could move your Sims to these subworlds and build as many subworlds as your pc could handle. I can't fathom how that is less than TS4's 'connected worlds' compared to a player adding dozens of subworlds either by Maxis and or their own to travel to and or have their Sim live in. Leaving out those details then yes, TS4's connected worlds would look like more 'space' than TS3 but it doesn't hold water against TS2's ability to build dozens that are connected and as easy to live in or travel to than anything in TS4. And none have to be the template that came with NL's Downtown, you can pick any template for as many DT's as you want.

    GT's Club System doesn't actually function correctly and never did. So, though it expands on NL's group outings which can be just for fun or timed gameplay with goals, the flaws with the GT club system are it's downfall. Example: Start a chess club on any cafe lot, not all the Sims in the 'club' are going to play chess though we were promised they would all do the same thing as your own Sim. Also, when you look for someone to join the 'club' most are insane townies if you pick random townies who fit the bill of requirements you have set. Unless you build several sane characters yourself to fill those slots. And it has been flawed ever since they added inapproriate in a patch, how many years? Because no longer can Sims cook in a home but get ask to stop if they are in a cooking session. Let's not even discuss a book club in TS4, though it had good ideas they are poorly implemented, when the Sims don't sit and discuss books but just grab one, throw it down, and grab another. So, GT's club system may have a lot of new shiny things to choose but half the time they don't work correctly, are poorly implemented. Another fine example of poorly done programming is when you create a club to eat in restaurants, rotate to play other Sims and then see that group at a restaurant who never sit down, never eat but just stand in the way of other Sims sometimes yaking inside a restaurant. That's not better than seeing my Sims out in a gathering actually dancing or drinking at a bar and or eating in a restuarant together in NL. Sims in TS2's groups don't just hang out, they bascially do whatever your Sim is doing just like in TS4, but it depends on what you chose, and or if it's timed or not. But they will stop to go to the bathroom or whatever. Their needs push them to remain individuals and not clones. TS4's Sims do stuff by emotion such as stop whatever they are supposed to be doing to hug somebody they don't even know. Or grab another bun at a cafe when they aren't even hungry even if they are in a chess club located inside a cafe shop. I think TS4 had a good idea of how to expand groups they borrowed from NL but they didn't do a good job of it. And the point is we had to buy whole other EPs and packs to get what NL did do right, and they don't even do what NL did the correct way.

    I'll give TS4 this, Vampires in a pack by itself was worth it, until they broke it and from what I read it is still broken. Vampires in TS2 are not broken after sixteen years. I can't knock the vampires in TS4 however, I can frown at how they broke the pack and don't care to repair it by all the complaints I still see sometimes.

    NL isn't the EP or patch to bring in aging for Sims, agreed, however, one would expect aging to progress as each new iteration was implemented, that's a base game feature of TS4 and TS3, and was expanded from TS1 to TS2 by allowing kids to grow up in TS2. That was a given, and TS2 can't be blamed for not having universal aging since it expanded on TS1's one little potion to age Sims in a later generation of Sims in TS2 by natural birthdays etc. But anyone who still plays TS2 knows by now, it's easy to age all towines by a cheat and or by a Sim birthday as they rotate to their other households and by the end of rotations most townie kids are grown up just as much as any other iteration if they know how to play TS2.
    Post edited by Cinebar on
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  • Chicklet453681Chicklet453681 Posts: 654 Member
    To be fair some things they do have an excuse for. In past games, a lot of animations were more tacky and less sleek so they took less time to create. Meshes were also much more simplistic and low poly so they were much simpler and quicker to make aswell. That all means they can create more in less time. And in previous installments, to be frank the build buy and cas that came with packs suckd. Packs were focused much more on gameplay rather than making things look nice.

    You have that backwards, the meshes in TS4 are much more low poly than either TS2 or TS3. I'm a CC creator and I create my own meshes and have looked extensively at meshes from all 3 games. TS4 meshes are suitable for a mobile game, meshes from TS2 and TS3 would be too high poly.

    And, I personally would rather have "more animations that were less sleek" if we got a lot more activities to do in TS4.
  • SmellincoffeeSmellincoffee Posts: 592 Member
    I'm not a programmer, but is it possible that TS2 was just less complicated at the base, and thus easier to expand?
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,247 Member
    edited September 5
    I'm not a programmer, but is it possible that TS2 was just less complicated at the base, and thus easier to expand?

    What is less complicated in a memory system that has to keep up with every event that happened to any Sim, including townies. That sort of telemetry has to be more complicated than TS4. I think TS4 uses the excuse because of multitasking they can't build a lot of things/objects because they (Maybe we don't) expect the Sim to multitask while using that object, such as talk to another Sim. That has been some of their reasons for why TS4 doesn't have a lot of things the others did. But they had no problem creating fishing where Sims didn't multitask and or build relationships with others or invite others to fish with them....
    Nor did they have a problem (below their standards is what they say when we ask) to create bowling and not include talking (multitasking) sitting while waiting/and talking (multitasking) so I don't think their excuses hold much water anymore. Because if they didn't want to build an object etc. because they can't work out the multitasking for it, then why in the world lower their so called standards and add fishing and bowling without interactions/multitadking. I think a lot of stuff is because they didn't want to do some things and wanted to do what they like instead of what players like.

    After all they went ahead and added a lounge chair that Sims can't multitask on such as talk to others or hold a drink or plate or whatever in a laid back positions. The reason they didn't add it before was because of multitasking so we waited and still didn't get proper multitasking. But we had fishing and bowling that had none. It seems they are all over the place for reasons why. MFP stuff pack is an example of doing what they want (because they love pet clothes) instead of working on what players would like to see, don't you think? lol
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • Nikkei_SimmerNikkei_Simmer Posts: 7,241 Member
    edited September 26
    bellagoth_ wrote: »
    ts2 nightlife has way more content than ts4 base game cuz ea realized how much of a cash cow this franchise is and how braindead are some fans, who will literally buy & defend anything about ea

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