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Feeling salty about Journey To Batuu?

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    muzickmagemuzickmage Posts: 986 Member
    edited August 2020
    Hearts4u wrote: »
    @muzickmage ... Yet, at one time wouldn't you have been considered a newbie? Newbies need to start somewhere after all. So, I hope decisions are made to gain new players so that the Sims franchise continues. Some decisions will work and some will not--that's business.

    I'm assuming Star Wars in the game does not appeal to you which is okay. Yet, it appeals to others. So, I'm personally happy when they add something I like. When they don't, I don't buy them. :smile:

    Yes, at one time I was exactly that.... a newbie. And I would fairly respect the arguments from the veterans if EA decided to cater to me... while leaving them in the lurch.

    And no... I don't like the idea of Star Wars being added to TS4. Star Wars as a game is great. I downloaded Star Wars Battlefront 2 during the demo stage but never went back to buy to game during release. I can only afford so many games and well... I have my favorites list at the moment.

    The problem however, is not Star Wars. The problem... at it's root... is the neglect from EA to fix the many bugs in the game. The problem is the neglect from EA to add better story progression, genealogy, ramance system, and little things that the community would likely darn near jump off a bridge for... like bunk-beds, better color swatches.

    We are missing so much for TS4 that the list is just overwhelming. And not all the ideas on the list are ridiculous, or unfair requests. Not for a 6 year old game in 2020.

    We keep waiting, waiting, and waiting some more, while EA caters to a bunch of people who don't even play the game. EA doesn't take very good care of the simmers it already has.... how do you think the new players will be treated?
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    Horrorgirl6Horrorgirl6 Posts: 3,191 Member
    I don't think this game is going to attract a lot star wars players.For the following reasons

    A. You're not living in the world, your vacationing there.This would be one thing if your sim was living at the world,but there not .Sure you get build items, and clothes. But it would still lesson the star wars feel.

    B. This is not base on real star wars, but on a theme park from Disney land. Making it feel less of adventure for star wars fan , and more like advertisement for Disney.

    C. This seems to be base on quests or to meet characters. So why the people might not be interested in the quest, or fight star wars.This is still going to be simalor to that.
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    j1z1j1z1 Posts: 311 Member
    It annoys me more when they scatter content across packs and when they focus on shine rather than content, as far as greedy practices go. Product placement like this? I can hardly be affronted by them advertising Disney or whatever when I know I'm giving my money to EA, act like something pure is being tainted.

    I didn't know SW fans were planning on joining TS4 because of this now. I'm actually kind of surprised. I read someone said Eco had been like a move to draw environmentalists to the franchise lol but surely that didn't work out like that, did it?
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    ANNETTE1951ANNETTE1951 Posts: 520 Member
    A star wars pack, SERIOUSLY? What happened to hotels, farming, schools, weddings, babies, I could go on and on.
    Don't get me wrong, I love star wars, BUT how does this concept connect to Sims 4? It doesn't. in my opinion.
    I can see the development of such a pack as a different game from Sims 4 but I just don't buy into how this deviation will meld with my current gameplay. Sorry, I am completely lost!
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    SilentKittySilentKitty Posts: 4,665 Member
    muzickmage wrote: »
    Hearts4u wrote: »
    @muzickmage ... Yet, at one time wouldn't you have been considered a newbie? Newbies need to start somewhere after all. So, I hope decisions are made to gain new players so that the Sims franchise continues. Some decisions will work and some will not--that's business.

    I'm assuming Star Wars in the game does not appeal to you which is okay. Yet, it appeals to others. So, I'm personally happy when they add something I like. When they don't, I don't buy them. :smile:

    Yes, at one time I was exactly that.... a newbie. And I would fairly respect the arguments from the veterans if EA decided to cater to me... while leaving them in the lurch.

    And no... I don't like the idea of Star Wars being added to TS4. Star Wars as a game is great. I downloaded Star Wars Battlefront 2 during the demo stage but never went back to buy to game during release. I can only afford so many games and well... I have my favorites list at the moment.

    The problem however, is not Star Wars. The problem... at it's root... is the neglect from EA to fix the many bugs in the game. The problem is the neglect from EA to add better story progression, genealogy, ramance system, and little things that the community would likely darn near jump off a bridge for... like bunk-beds, better color swatches.

    We are missing so much for TS4 that the list is just overwhelming. And not all the ideas on the list are ridiculous, or unfair requests. Not for a 6 year old game in 2020.

    We keep waiting, waiting, and waiting some more, while EA caters to a bunch of people who don't even play the game. EA doesn't take very good care of the simmers it already has.... how do you think the new players will be treated?

    Hmm...

    I would like farming, have been in the ideas-thread for that several times. Not into story progression at all as a rotational player but better genealogy, step-parents being recognized is much needed. Think they are doing some sort of low-key...very very subtle... chemistry right now because some sims sims work great together and some sims you really have to work to get the romance- or friendships-bar to move. I hope we will see a romance-pack one day, have been posting in that ideas-thread as well.

    However, in my opinion the pack does not only cater to new players. It is right up my alley and will mix well with ROM, Strangerville, Vampires. Jungle Adventures was also different and fun. Expansion Packs are always realistic only so that is what I would expect to see later this year. Nifty Knitting was nothing but wholesome family stuff, it works really well with my stories. It is just so odd to me, I feel like I have been here enough years to be a Sims Player and spent enough money to be called loyal. I have given feedback earlier that for me as a Sims 4 player things can be too ordinary, that I would like to see more fantastical things added.

    I would definitely like to see more bug-fixes and I try to help out on the tech-side if I have a save that is needed. Only happened once so far but I click “me too” for every bug I have so that there are stats. Even if the game pack was a different theme it would not have fixed all the bugs or added all the things. It is a bit strange to see so much anger out in the forums while oneself is happy. I get a new pack for a game that I really love. I will still continue to ask for more focus on bug-fixes, that is also why I don’t update my game straight away with a new pack. I like to see what the forum says first.
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    popstarsleypopstarsley Posts: 1,086 Member
    Why is the person in the cover photo still making that same dumb face they all do? 😵😵😵
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    popstarsleypopstarsley Posts: 1,086 Member
    Akl500P wrote: »
    I really like how she put everything. She made a lot of really good points about this topic and it’s well worth a watch.

    Yes, I never understood before how many times devs actually have no say in pack theme decisions. What she says about it bringing new players which could ultimately benefit The Sims franchise as a whole makes sense too. ETA: I know my household is a two generation Star Wars fandom, myself and my son and I am sure we aren’t the only one.

    Ok and also EA needs more money?!?!!!! According to them TS4 is incredibly remarkably awesomely unbelievably selling so outrageously so! So muches fans and monies raining on the house of EA! 😎

    Giving the game away for free and for $5 all the time notwithstanding!🧐
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    CAPTAIN_NXR7CAPTAIN_NXR7 Posts: 4,464 Member
    A star wars pack, SERIOUSLY? What happened to hotels, farming, schools, weddings, babies, I could go on and on.
    Don't get me wrong, I love star wars, BUT how does this concept connect to Sims 4? It doesn't. in my opinion.
    I can see the development of such a pack as a different game from Sims 4 but I just don't buy into how this deviation will meld with my current gameplay. Sorry, I am completely lost!

    Did you watch the video at the start of this thread? It’s for those who are completely lost.
    I have to say the lady is constantly repeating herself within those 17 minutes, but she makes some good points and explains why there is Star Wars in the Sims. And really that’s all there is to say about it, whether we like it or not.
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    ANNETTE1951ANNETTE1951 Posts: 520 Member
    I listened to the video, blah, blah, blah. I already know about corporate goals but that does not justify their decision nor negate my feelings about this pack. 'If I don't like the pack, then don't buy it', that is pretty rude. I can obviously do that but we can still comment on this without retribution, one would think. The video is so much fluff. She basically said nothing.
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    KaeChan2089KaeChan2089 Posts: 4,944 Member
    Why is the person in the cover photo still making that same dumb face they all do? 😵😵😵

    AT least it isn't like that horrid Eco Living one..
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    Pamtastic72Pamtastic72 Posts: 4,545 Member
    Akl500P wrote: »
    I really like how she put everything. She made a lot of really good points about this topic and it’s well worth a watch.

    Yes, I never understood before how many times devs actually have no say in pack theme decisions. What she says about it bringing new players which could ultimately benefit The Sims franchise as a whole makes sense too. ETA: I know my household is a two generation Star Wars fandom, myself and my son and I am sure we aren’t the only one.

    Ok and also EA needs more money?!?!!!! According to them TS4 is incredibly remarkably awesomely unbelievably selling so outrageously so! So muches fans and monies raining on the house of EA! 😎

    Giving the game away for free and for $5 all the time notwithstanding!🧐

    When it comes to large multinational corporations, too much money is never enough.
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    GordyGordy Posts: 3,022 Member
    edited August 2020
    Was it confirmed anywhere that the devs had this idea forced on them? It definitely sounds like the most likely option, but these are the same people behind Eco Lifestyle and StrangerVille. Plus there's at least one Star Wars super-fan on the team, and I wouldn't be surprised if they have more.
    TS1_dragons_hatching.jpg
    The Sims 4 hasn't introduced a new musical instrument since 2017
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    GoldmoldarGoldmoldar Posts: 11,966 Member
    edited September 2020
    I do not mind an pack with Star Wars, it is just how it may be implemented as an whole. It may be as limited as CL, El and Strangerville were as you cannot use some features in other neighborhoods. I am not angry as EA/Maxis can do whatever they want with their product but for me it will not be worth no $19.99 and with limitations too.
    Post edited by Goldmoldar on
    Omen by HP Intel®️ Core™️ i9- 12900K W/ RGB Liquid Cooler 32GB Nvidia RTX 3080 10Gb ASUS Ultra-Wide 34" Curved Monitor. Omen By HP Intel® Core™ i7-12800HX 32 GB Nvidia 3070 Ti 8 GB 17.3 Screen
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    Horrorgirl6Horrorgirl6 Posts: 3,191 Member
    Gordy wrote: »
    Was it confirmed anywhere that the devs had this idea forced on them? It definitely sounds like the most likely option, but these are the same people behind Eco Lifestyle and StrangerVille. Plus there's at least one Star Wars super-fan on the team, and I wouldn't be surprised if they have more.

    At least we stranger ville you can least say it was an experiment.I personally like that pack.This, on the other hand, was more of an advertisement .
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    OnverserOnverser Posts: 3,364 Member
    edited September 2020
    A star wars pack, SERIOUSLY? What happened to hotels, farming, schools, weddings, babies, I could go on and on.
    Don't get me wrong, I love star wars, BUT how does this concept connect to Sims 4? It doesn't. in my opinion.
    I can see the development of such a pack as a different game from Sims 4 but I just don't buy into how this deviation will meld with my current gameplay. Sorry, I am completely lost!

    Not to be rude but how does farming connect to the sims either? This isn't farmville. I don't think there's ever been a proper farming pack in any of the games, it's not a staple of the franchise nor has it ever been just the same as star wars isn't a staple of the sims universe.

    I'm just a bit confused how farming is suddenly a sims essential that everyone needs to be in the game, in terms of essentials I'd say finishing the occults is more of a priority as theyre an essential which has been with the franchise for years and isn't fully in this game yet.

    For example, zombies have been in every installment of the franchise but aren't in Sims 4 yet (they were in 1, 2 and 3), werewolves have been part of the game since Sims 2 and Fairies have been part of the game since Sims 3. None of which are in this game as of yet.

    (Sorry this is a bit off topic from the thread btw)
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    CAPTAIN_NXR7CAPTAIN_NXR7 Posts: 4,464 Member
    Onverser wrote: »
    A star wars pack, SERIOUSLY? What happened to hotels, farming, schools, weddings, babies, I could go on and on.
    Don't get me wrong, I love star wars, BUT how does this concept connect to Sims 4? It doesn't. in my opinion.
    I can see the development of such a pack as a different game from Sims 4 but I just don't buy into how this deviation will meld with my current gameplay. Sorry, I am completely lost!

    Not to be rude but how does farming connect to the sims either? This isn't farmville. I don't think there's ever been a proper farming pack in any of the games, it's not a staple of the franchise nor has it ever been just the same as star wars isn't a staple of the sims universe.

    I'm just a bit confused how farming is suddenly a sims essential that everyone needs to be in the game, in terms of essentials I'd say finishing the occults is more of a priority as theyre an essential which has been with the franchise for years and isn't fully in this game yet.

    For example, zombies have been in every installment of the franchise but aren't in Sims 4 yet (they were in 1, 2 and 3), werewolves have been part of the game since Sims 2 and Fairies have been part of the game since Sims 3. None of which are in this game as of yet.

    (Sorry this is a bit off topic from the thread btw)

    I think what folks mean by farming is that they’d like to see some of the gameplay objects back that are available for the sims 3:

    Cows
    Chicken coop.
    Harvesting tractor.
    Woohoo in hay.
    BB stuff like barns and barn doors etc.

    Horses?
    A world that focuses on country/ farming life like Appaloosa Plains.

    I feel that this is more suitable for an EP though, whereas fully fleshed out concepts for fantasy gameplay like Star Wars or Werewolves etc. is restricted to Gamepacks. Unless werewolves are part of a farming EP, which wouldn’t do them justice.
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    BrittanyChick22BrittanyChick22 Posts: 2,130 Member
    edited September 2020
    There are other ways to get more people into the sims. Using a cash grab will only upset your main fanbase who have been around for years. As big as the sims is, using another title like star wars to draw others in is a problem. Your own game and it's game play should be able to draw new players in, not another franchise. Clearly marketing isn't cutting it if they had to use starwars. After you got that specific group of people's attention to buy the pack, who's to say that's going to keep them interested in the franchise/game in the long run? There's been plenty of times when I was drawn in to buying something from a company but after that I was no longer interested...in my opinion that's how it is with this pack. Some of them will think "okay that was cool/fun but I'm gonna move on to other games now" unless they're already a fan of the franchise. Another thing, if this was already in production, then there was no point in giving us that poll what so ever. Why even put star wars on the list if the pack was already being made? It shouldn't been placed there at all. This pack could of just stayed a surprise while they used that poll to create one of the many highly voted for packs. Now if their doing that, that's great but it's completely backwards cause you upset your fanbase for no reason, if they do release one of the packs people wanted off the poll, they might be hesitant in buying after this cause they don't want to be disappointed again.
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    MaggieMarleyMaggieMarley Posts: 5,299 Member
    edited September 2020
    Another thing, if this was already in production, then there was no point in giving us that poll what so ever. Why even put star wars on the list if the pack was already being made? It shouldn't been placed there at all. This pack could of just stayed a surprise while they used that poll to create one of the many highly voted for packs. Now if their doing that, that's great but it's completely backwards cause you upset your fanbase for no reason, if they do release one of the packs people wanted off the poll, they might be hesitant in buying after this cause they don't want to be disappointed again.

    @BrittanyChick22 that poll was not carried out by EA. It was an independent poll carried out by Digital Spy in January 2020 when the star wars pack was most likely already in the making anyway.

    As Digital Spy says in that article:
    Last week, we compiled a list of 21 different ideas for packs in 2020 and, just for fun, asked readers to vote up as many of their favourites as they liked. There was a total of more than 170,000 'upvotes' across all options.

    I am just pointing this out because so many people seem to believe that this poll was done by EA - that EA asked if people wanted Star Wars, found out that they didn't and went ahead and made the pack anyway. That isn't the case.

    Maybe EA should have asked if people wanted Star Wars before steamrollering ahead and making a Star Wars pack anyway. But the results of that specific poll could never have influenced whether or not EA made this pack.
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    Horrorgirl6Horrorgirl6 Posts: 3,191 Member
    Onverser wrote: »
    A star wars pack, SERIOUSLY? What happened to hotels, farming, schools, weddings, babies, I could go on and on.
    Don't get me wrong, I love star wars, BUT how does this concept connect to Sims 4? It doesn't. in my opinion.
    I can see the development of such a pack as a different game from Sims 4 but I just don't buy into how this deviation will meld with my current gameplay. Sorry, I am completely lost!

    Not to be rude but how does farming connect to the sims either? This isn't farmville. I don't think there's ever been a proper farming pack in any of the games, it's not a staple of the franchise nor has it ever been just the same as star wars isn't a staple of the sims universe.

    I'm just a bit confused how farming is suddenly a sims essential that everyone needs to be in the game, in terms of essentials I'd say finishing the occults is more of a priority as theyre an essential which has been with the franchise for years and isn't fully in this game yet.

    For example, zombies have been in every installment of the franchise but aren't in Sims 4 yet (they were in 1, 2 and 3), werewolves have been part of the game since Sims 2 and Fairies have been part of the game since Sims 3. None of which are in this game as of yet.

    (Sorry this is a bit off topic from the thread btw)

    People want farming for a few reasons.

    A we want more animals in the game.Such as chicken, sheep, cows, and horses

    B We want more hands stuff for our sims.A farming pack gives us more options for our sims.

    C Other ways to make money it

    D More crops like strawberries,

    F A representation of country life .
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    BrittanyChick22BrittanyChick22 Posts: 2,130 Member
    Another thing, if this was already in production, then there was no point in giving us that poll what so ever. Why even put star wars on the list if the pack was already being made? It shouldn't been placed there at all. This pack could of just stayed a surprise while they used that poll to create one of the many highly voted for packs. Now if their doing that, that's great but it's completely backwards cause you upset your fanbase for no reason, if they do release one of the packs people wanted off the poll, they might be hesitant in buying after this cause they don't want to be disappointed again.

    @BrittanyChick22 that poll was not carried out by EA. It was an independent poll carried out by Digital Spy in January 2020 when the star wars pack was most likely already in the making anyway.

    As Digital Spy says in that article:
    Last week, we compiled a list of 21 different ideas for packs in 2020 and, just for fun, asked readers to vote up as many of their favourites as they liked. There was a total of more than 170,000 'upvotes' across all options.

    I am just pointing this out because so many people seem to believe that this poll was done by EA - that EA asked if people wanted Star Wars, found out that they didn't and went ahead and made the pack anyway. That isn't the case.

    Maybe EA should have asked if people wanted Star Wars before steamrollering ahead and making a Star Wars pack anyway. But the results of that specific poll could never have influenced whether or not EA made this pack.

    I know you already told me, the point is I'm pretty sure EA saw the poll and saw that Star wars was dead last and still went with it anyway.
    giphy.gif


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    Horrorgirl6Horrorgirl6 Posts: 3,191 Member
    Another thing, if this was already in production, then there was no point in giving us that poll what so ever. Why even put star wars on the list if the pack was already being made? It shouldn't been placed there at all. This pack could of just stayed a surprise while they used that poll to create one of the many highly voted for packs. Now if their doing that, that's great but it's completely backwards cause you upset your fanbase for no reason, if they do release one of the packs people wanted off the poll, they might be hesitant in buying after this cause they don't want to be disappointed again.

    @BrittanyChick22 that poll was not carried out by EA. It was an independent poll carried out by Digital Spy in January 2020 when the star wars pack was most likely already in the making anyway.

    As Digital Spy says in that article:
    Last week, we compiled a list of 21 different ideas for packs in 2020 and, just for fun, asked readers to vote up as many of their favourites as they liked. There was a total of more than 170,000 'upvotes' across all options.

    I am just pointing this out because so many people seem to believe that this poll was done by EA - that EA asked if people wanted Star Wars, found out that they didn't and went ahead and made the pack anyway. That isn't the case.

    Maybe EA should have asked if people wanted Star Wars before steamrollering ahead and making a Star Wars pack anyway. But the results of that specific poll could never have influenced whether or not EA made this pack.

    I know you already told me, the point is I'm pretty sure EA saw the poll and saw that Star wars was dead last and still went with it anyway.

    Yea,but in their defense.The pack was already probably being made.So sadly scrapping it was not option.
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    MaggieMarleyMaggieMarley Posts: 5,299 Member
    edited September 2020
    Another thing, if this was already in production, then there was no point in giving us that poll what so ever. Why even put star wars on the list if the pack was already being made? It shouldn't been placed there at all. This pack could of just stayed a surprise while they used that poll to create one of the many highly voted for packs. Now if their doing that, that's great but it's completely backwards cause you upset your fanbase for no reason, if they do release one of the packs people wanted off the poll, they might be hesitant in buying after this cause they don't want to be disappointed again.

    @BrittanyChick22 that poll was not carried out by EA. It was an independent poll carried out by Digital Spy in January 2020 when the star wars pack was most likely already in the making anyway.

    As Digital Spy says in that article:
    Last week, we compiled a list of 21 different ideas for packs in 2020 and, just for fun, asked readers to vote up as many of their favourites as they liked. There was a total of more than 170,000 'upvotes' across all options.

    I am just pointing this out because so many people seem to believe that this poll was done by EA - that EA asked if people wanted Star Wars, found out that they didn't and went ahead and made the pack anyway. That isn't the case.

    Maybe EA should have asked if people wanted Star Wars before steamrollering ahead and making a Star Wars pack anyway. But the results of that specific poll could never have influenced whether or not EA made this pack.

    I know you already told me, the point is I'm pretty sure EA saw the poll and saw that Star wars was dead last and still went with it anyway.

    Ok I got confused because you said:
    Another thing, if this was already in production, then there was no point in giving us that poll what so ever. Why even put star wars on the list if the pack was already being made?

    That made it sound like you were talking about EA.

    Regardless, as I said the poll was done in January 2020. The pack has probably been in the works for a year or perhaps even longer, definitely it was in the works by January 2020. Agreements would have been made, work already done. Even if they had seen the poll it wouldn't have stopped them.
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    BrittanyChick22BrittanyChick22 Posts: 2,130 Member
    Another thing, if this was already in production, then there was no point in giving us that poll what so ever. Why even put star wars on the list if the pack was already being made? It shouldn't been placed there at all. This pack could of just stayed a surprise while they used that poll to create one of the many highly voted for packs. Now if their doing that, that's great but it's completely backwards cause you upset your fanbase for no reason, if they do release one of the packs people wanted off the poll, they might be hesitant in buying after this cause they don't want to be disappointed again.

    @BrittanyChick22 that poll was not carried out by EA. It was an independent poll carried out by Digital Spy in January 2020 when the star wars pack was most likely already in the making anyway.

    As Digital Spy says in that article:
    Last week, we compiled a list of 21 different ideas for packs in 2020 and, just for fun, asked readers to vote up as many of their favourites as they liked. There was a total of more than 170,000 'upvotes' across all options.

    I am just pointing this out because so many people seem to believe that this poll was done by EA - that EA asked if people wanted Star Wars, found out that they didn't and went ahead and made the pack anyway. That isn't the case.

    Maybe EA should have asked if people wanted Star Wars before steamrollering ahead and making a Star Wars pack anyway. But the results of that specific poll could never have influenced whether or not EA made this pack.

    I know you already told me, the point is I'm pretty sure EA saw the poll and saw that Star wars was dead last and still went with it anyway.

    Ok I got confused because you said:
    Another thing, if this was already in production, then there was no point in giving us that poll what so ever. Why even put star wars on the list if the pack was already being made?

    That made it sound like you were talking about EA.

    Regardless, as I said the poll was done in January 2020. The pack has probably been in the works for a year or perhaps even longer, definitely it was in the works by January 2020. Agreements would have been made, work already done. Even if they had seen the poll it wouldn't have stopped them.

    You're probably right about them making the pack in advance, but it shows how out of touch they are with the audience. Even if the poll was done in 2020, I'm sure ea knew this pack was something most simmers would not be happy about when they've been asking for other features for the longest. I wouldn't doubt they didn't know about the poll and the lack of positive responds about a possible starwars pack.
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    ddd994ddd994 Posts: 418 Member
    Are we forgetting eco lifestyle was in production for over 3 years (which btw was a fan base request, imagine the betrayal the devs felt who worked on this pack for us to tear it apart on release)?? Toddlers took 2/3 years.. I seriously doubt they only started working on The Star Wars pack this year!! They obviously plan out the packs/ updates they are working on wayyyy in advance, at least a whole fiscal year. So if they only asked us about farming and hotels etc recently... You are gonna have to practice some patience in getting these themes.

    Honestly, people are just mad and making no sense... The Sims always do crossover packs, maybe stars wars is a little random, but it seems like a decent effort at least. Remember that Katy Perry pack?

    Maybe the SW pack isn’t even random? How many people loved when they added a couple of SW cas items yearsssss ago? Could it be that the team decided then and there a full pack was a good idea, and they’ve been working on it since? I mean pleasing both EA and Disney with this pack, would probably take extra time (from a devs POV).

    PS not a good look for the people resorting to attacking the girls physical appearance in the video/ thumbnail.. Like yikes.. what even is this community 🙈🙈🙈
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    CynnaCynna Posts: 2,369 Member
    edited September 2020

    I know you already told me, the point is I'm pretty sure EA saw the poll and saw that Star wars was dead last and still went with it anyway.

    Has EA/Maxis ever included a Star Wars theme in any of there their surveys? Admittedly, I've taken a few of them, but not all. Has anything even close to a Star Wars theme been put up for consideration in the past?

    I3Ml5Om.jpg
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