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Blatant racism vs Covert Racism that sadly and upsetting seems to exist in the sims

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  • StrawberryYogurtStrawberryYogurt Posts: 2,799 Member
    edited August 2020
    Metior_Ice wrote: »
    Well then everyone is at least a little racist because I bet with all of you, you all have accidentally exluded or overlooked at least one race, sexual orientation etc. in your game. So nobody is innocent.
    Also exlusion is not nessecarily always based on the belief that one is inferior. Like you said sometimes it's accidental because we tend to create sims that feel familiar to us.

    For my MerMan sim, the game used “her,” and last time I checked, merfolk aren’t gender exclusive. As a member of a merfolk community in real-life, I’m very aware of the gender disproportion.

    What does this mean?
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  • CAPTAIN_NXR7CAPTAIN_NXR7 Posts: 4,451 Member
    Metior_Ice wrote: »
    Well then everyone is at least a little racist because I bet with all of you, you all have accidentally exluded or overlooked at least one race, sexual orientation etc. in your game. So nobody is innocent.
    Also exlusion is not nessecarily always based on the belief that one is inferior. Like you said sometimes it's accidental because we tend to create sims that feel familiar to us.

    For my MerMan sim, the game used “her,” and last time I checked, merfolk aren’t gender exclusive. As a member of a merfolk community in real-life, I’m very aware of the gender disproportion.

    What does this mean?

    I may be wrong, but apparently there’s a secret community in US that identifies as Merfolk, prosthetic tails and all.
    Whatever it means, I’m curious too.
  • stilljustme2stilljustme2 Posts: 25,082 Member
    CelSims wrote: »
    One of the premade females in Willow Creek is supposed to be a native Indian. She came in the base game and has shoulder length hair and a slightly tanned skintone. I can't remember her name.

    Do you mean Zoe Patel from Oasis Springs? Can't think of anyone else who might fit this description in the base game.

    Yes.

    Oh dear. Zoe is as far from native American as it's possible to be. Patel is a common Indian name - in the country of India. I guess this is why Native Americans prefer not to be called Native Indians.......

    I always saw Zoe Patel as Indian, as in ancestry from India, not Native (I like the term "First Nations" that's used in Canada). When we got some of the patched in content for Diwali I actually made her formal wear a sari and the Indian headdress that came in that patch. In the US, most Native people prefer to be addressed by the name of their particular tribe, or as Native Americans.
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  • muzickmagemuzickmage Posts: 986 Member
    edited August 2020
    As much as I appreciate all the arguments here, and all the points of view. I still can't understand why the sims world has to represent any of us in any way, shape or form.

    Does the sims have my skin tone and hair style? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But why does it need to in the first place? Why do I need to be represented in the fantasy world of sims? The sims isn't about "me" .... it's about the sims.

    I would like to have a sim world that showcases it's own race, culture, and religion. Not a sims world that struggles to meet our demands to showcase ours. The sims already have their own language. That's a great beginning.

    Maybe TS5 should limit the sims to having only 3 skin colors.... specifically toned for them. Give them a collection of their very own hair styles. Their own cultural wardrobe, etc. etc.

    I don't want to be.... 10 years from now... recreating the state of New York in great detail, and my entire family tree that comes out looking like a photocopy of their real identity. I don't want that type of sims game.

    I want a sims world. A fantasy world. A place to escape all the politics and responsibilities of our real lives. This idea of forcing the sims' fantasy world of adopting our way of life, imposing our societal norms onto a video game..... where will it end? And what will the final product look like?

    (obviously there are sims's players who want a different type of sims' world. Fair enough. At the end of it all, we may be all taught a valuable lesson. Be careful what you ask for.)
  • OEII1001OEII1001 Posts: 3,682 Member
    edited August 2020
    muzickmage wrote: »
    mannanna wrote: »
    All I can say about SimGuruKate's twitter post is wow. I do know Sims is an American game and reflects on USA more than any other country, but to say it is bad white people weren't aware? Is she talking about her fellow Americans or all people that play Sims? My game is pretty diverse because of all the Sims the game itself creates but when I create a sim I create a white sim because that is how I and my world looks like...and now that's wrong because if I had been more inclusive I would have known about the other bad color swatches. No, it's not problematic, what's problematic is that it took so long for the developers to change it and too many Americans forget there are other places in the world outside of US.

    I'm frankly getting tired of my race being put on a pedastal and white people being shamed for simply being unaware, especially for something as minor as skintones in a videogame. I find her post quite annoying. Besides, as the above points out, Kate's being rather hypocritical.

    EDIT: Assuming she didn't know in the past either.

    You think black people are put on a pedestal? and white people are being shamed? Wow, White people must have a long history of oppression and being abused in this country, that is still ongoing to this day . White people must feel so bad that...black people are getting non ashy skintones.

    Look at all the likes for this tonedeaf, reverse reality comment. Such a shame. There are 50 european/straight hairstyles for a single textured hair in this game. How are we being treated better exactly? We have to beg for more stuff to represent black sims.

    Why does the sims have to represent black sims? Or any skin tone of ours? That's what i'm failing to understand. The need for the sims world to represent our way of life. How is it that the sims game is responsible for representing any of us in any way, whether it be skin tones, hair styles, or other ideas?

    Why do you need representation? Why do I? Why do any of us?

    Because a lot of people like to make themselves, or people they know, or even play sims that look like themselves. Who are any of us to tell them what is or should be considered "essential" for their game?

    Maxis is going to include some more skin tones. That's a net win for everybody. Many of you are losing this point by engaging in semantics.
  • Sim_ArchitectsSim_Architects Posts: 302 Member
    Demanding more textured hair and better skintones is not asking EA to represent us, its asking for a better chance for us to represent ourselves in the game. And its not "too much". Racism is literally the only reason anyone objects to this. You dont see this much objection toward any other suggestions people make for this game. Its so transparent.
  • Sim_ArchitectsSim_Architects Posts: 302 Member
    I need better dark skintones, because i create sims i can relate to on a personal level, which most times are dark or brown skinned. I also need textured hairstyles because they feel more authentic. I will use straight hair on darker sims but id prefer if i didnt have to all the time. These are not outrageous requests.

  • muzickmagemuzickmage Posts: 986 Member
    edited August 2020
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    mannanna wrote: »
    All I can say about SimGuruKate's twitter post is wow. I do know Sims is an American game and reflects on USA more than any other country, but to say it is bad white people weren't aware? Is she talking about her fellow Americans or all people that play Sims? My game is pretty diverse because of all the Sims the game itself creates but when I create a sim I create a white sim because that is how I and my world looks like...and now that's wrong because if I had been more inclusive I would have known about the other bad color swatches. No, it's not problematic, what's problematic is that it took so long for the developers to change it and too many Americans forget there are other places in the world outside of US.

    I'm frankly getting tired of my race being put on a pedastal and white people being shamed for simply being unaware, especially for something as minor as skintones in a videogame. I find her post quite annoying. Besides, as the above points out, Kate's being rather hypocritical.

    EDIT: Assuming she didn't know in the past either.

    You think black people are put on a pedestal? and white people are being shamed? Wow, White people must have a long history of oppression and being abused in this country, that is still ongoing to this day . White people must feel so bad that...black people are getting non ashy skintones.

    Look at all the likes for this tonedeaf, reverse reality comment. Such a shame. There are 50 european/straight hairstyles for a single textured hair in this game. How are we being treated better exactly? We have to beg for more stuff to represent black sims.

    Why does the sims have to represent black sims? Or any skin tone of ours? That's what i'm failing to understand. The need for the sims world to represent our way of life. How is it that the sims game is responsible for representing any of us in any way, whether it be skin tones, hair styles, or other ideas?

    Why do you need representation? Why do I? Why do any of us?

    Because a lot of people like to make themselves, or people they know, or even play sims that look like themselves. Who are any of us to tell them what is or should be considered "essential" for their game?

    Maxis is going to include some more skin tones. That's a net win for everybody. Many of you are losing this point by engaging in semantics.

    That's great that people like to do these things. And it's great that the CAS, to some degree, offers people the tools to do exactly that.

    But there is a major difference between stating that the sims offers particular options and freedoms, and stating that its the games "responsibility" to do so.
  • OEII1001OEII1001 Posts: 3,682 Member
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    mannanna wrote: »
    All I can say about SimGuruKate's twitter post is wow. I do know Sims is an American game and reflects on USA more than any other country, but to say it is bad white people weren't aware? Is she talking about her fellow Americans or all people that play Sims? My game is pretty diverse because of all the Sims the game itself creates but when I create a sim I create a white sim because that is how I and my world looks like...and now that's wrong because if I had been more inclusive I would have known about the other bad color swatches. No, it's not problematic, what's problematic is that it took so long for the developers to change it and too many Americans forget there are other places in the world outside of US.

    I'm frankly getting tired of my race being put on a pedastal and white people being shamed for simply being unaware, especially for something as minor as skintones in a videogame. I find her post quite annoying. Besides, as the above points out, Kate's being rather hypocritical.

    EDIT: Assuming she didn't know in the past either.

    You think black people are put on a pedestal? and white people are being shamed? Wow, White people must have a long history of oppression and being abused in this country, that is still ongoing to this day . White people must feel so bad that...black people are getting non ashy skintones.

    Look at all the likes for this tonedeaf, reverse reality comment. Such a shame. There are 50 european/straight hairstyles for a single textured hair in this game. How are we being treated better exactly? We have to beg for more stuff to represent black sims.

    Why does the sims have to represent black sims? Or any skin tone of ours? That's what i'm failing to understand. The need for the sims world to represent our way of life. How is it that the sims game is responsible for representing any of us in any way, whether it be skin tones, hair styles, or other ideas?

    Why do you need representation? Why do I? Why do any of us?

    Because a lot of people like to make themselves, or people they know, or even play sims that look like themselves. Who are any of us to tell them what is or should be considered "essential" for their game?

    Maxis is going to include some more skin tones. That's a net win for everybody. Many of you are losing this point by engaging in semantics.

    That's great that people like to do these things. And it's great that the CAS, to some degree, offers people the tools to do exactly that.

    But there is a major difference between stating that the sims offers particular options and freedoms, and stating that its the games "responsibility" to do so.

    Clearly Maxis sees it as their responsibility. The enhanced gender options were implemented as part of that philosophy, as well as the previous round of new skin tones. Whatever their reason for doing so is, in my estimation, irrelevant. What matters is that these new skin tones and features are making people happy. You yourself have already stated that you see this.
  • TrashmagicTrashmagic Posts: 977 Member
    edited August 2020
    muzickmage wrote: »
    mannanna wrote: »
    All I can say about SimGuruKate's twitter post is wow. I do know Sims is an American game and reflects on USA more than any other country, but to say it is bad white people weren't aware? Is she talking about her fellow Americans or all people that play Sims? My game is pretty diverse because of all the Sims the game itself creates but when I create a sim I create a white sim because that is how I and my world looks like...and now that's wrong because if I had been more inclusive I would have known about the other bad color swatches. No, it's not problematic, what's problematic is that it took so long for the developers to change it and too many Americans forget there are other places in the world outside of US.

    I'm frankly getting tired of my race being put on a pedastal and white people being shamed for simply being unaware, especially for something as minor as skintones in a videogame. I find her post quite annoying. Besides, as the above points out, Kate's being rather hypocritical.

    EDIT: Assuming she didn't know in the past either.

    You think black people are put on a pedestal? and white people are being shamed? Wow, White people must have a long history of oppression and being abused in this country, that is still ongoing to this day . White people must feel so bad that...black people are getting non ashy skintones.

    Look at all the likes for this tonedeaf, reverse reality comment. Such a shame. There are 50 european/straight hairstyles for a single textured hair in this game. How are we being treated better exactly? We have to beg for more stuff to represent black sims.

    Why does the sims have to represent black sims? Or any skin tone of ours? That's what i'm failing to understand. The need for the sims world to represent our way of life. How is it that the sims game is responsible for representing any of us in any way, whether it be skin tones, hair styles, or other ideas?

    Why do you need representation? Why do I? Why do any of us?

    Representation feels nice. There are many studies that cover the importance of representation in media and yes this includes Sims. One thing I remember is the term symbolic annihilation which is the idea that the less you see of yourself in media (your gender, your skintone, your sexual-orientation and such) the less important you feel. This affects marginalized groups to a greater extent. Which is why diversity issues are commonly brought up by these groups and not by those that are already represented in media.

    I understand that you may not care about representation in Sims. But it's clear that others do. What do you gain by getting in the way of that?
    Post edited by Trashmagic on
  • AncientMuseAncientMuse Posts: 1,061 Member
    If EA were to make better CAS tools (better sliders, more sliders, colour wheels for skin/hair/eyes, customizable hair-do's, etc) there wouldn't be this problem.
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  • muzickmagemuzickmage Posts: 986 Member
    edited August 2020
    Trashmagic wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    mannanna wrote: »
    All I can say about SimGuruKate's twitter post is wow. I do know Sims is an American game and reflects on USA more than any other country, but to say it is bad white people weren't aware? Is she talking about her fellow Americans or all people that play Sims? My game is pretty diverse because of all the Sims the game itself creates but when I create a sim I create a white sim because that is how I and my world looks like...and now that's wrong because if I had been more inclusive I would have known about the other bad color swatches. No, it's not problematic, what's problematic is that it took so long for the developers to change it and too many Americans forget there are other places in the world outside of US.

    I'm frankly getting tired of my race being put on a pedastal and white people being shamed for simply being unaware, especially for something as minor as skintones in a videogame. I find her post quite annoying. Besides, as the above points out, Kate's being rather hypocritical.

    EDIT: Assuming she didn't know in the past either.

    You think black people are put on a pedestal? and white people are being shamed? Wow, White people must have a long history of oppression and being abused in this country, that is still ongoing to this day . White people must feel so bad that...black people are getting non ashy skintones.

    Look at all the likes for this tonedeaf, reverse reality comment. Such a shame. There are 50 european/straight hairstyles for a single textured hair in this game. How are we being treated better exactly? We have to beg for more stuff to represent black sims.

    Why does the sims have to represent black sims? Or any skin tone of ours? That's what i'm failing to understand. The need for the sims world to represent our way of life. How is it that the sims game is responsible for representing any of us in any way, whether it be skin tones, hair styles, or other ideas?

    Why do you need representation? Why do I? Why do any of us?

    Representations feels nice. There are many studies that cover the importance of representation in media and yes this includes Sims. One thing I remember is the term symbolic annihilation which is the idea that the less you see of yourself in media (your gender, your skintone, your sexual-orientation and such) the less important you feel. This affects marginalized groups to a greater extent. Which is why deversity issues are commonly brought up by these groups and not by those that are already represented in media.

    I understand that you may not care about representation in Sims. But it's clear that others do. What do you gain by getting in the way of that?

    A sims' fantasy world where I can escape the very argument this thread is having. I am very nervous about the new sims' world that is currently being built.
  • OEII1001OEII1001 Posts: 3,682 Member
    edited August 2020
    muzickmage wrote: »
    Trashmagic wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    mannanna wrote: »
    All I can say about SimGuruKate's twitter post is wow. I do know Sims is an American game and reflects on USA more than any other country, but to say it is bad white people weren't aware? Is she talking about her fellow Americans or all people that play Sims? My game is pretty diverse because of all the Sims the game itself creates but when I create a sim I create a white sim because that is how I and my world looks like...and now that's wrong because if I had been more inclusive I would have known about the other bad color swatches. No, it's not problematic, what's problematic is that it took so long for the developers to change it and too many Americans forget there are other places in the world outside of US.

    I'm frankly getting tired of my race being put on a pedastal and white people being shamed for simply being unaware, especially for something as minor as skintones in a videogame. I find her post quite annoying. Besides, as the above points out, Kate's being rather hypocritical.

    EDIT: Assuming she didn't know in the past either.

    You think black people are put on a pedestal? and white people are being shamed? Wow, White people must have a long history of oppression and being abused in this country, that is still ongoing to this day . White people must feel so bad that...black people are getting non ashy skintones.

    Look at all the likes for this tonedeaf, reverse reality comment. Such a shame. There are 50 european/straight hairstyles for a single textured hair in this game. How are we being treated better exactly? We have to beg for more stuff to represent black sims.

    Why does the sims have to represent black sims? Or any skin tone of ours? That's what i'm failing to understand. The need for the sims world to represent our way of life. How is it that the sims game is responsible for representing any of us in any way, whether it be skin tones, hair styles, or other ideas?

    Why do you need representation? Why do I? Why do any of us?

    Representations feels nice. There are many studies that cover the importance of representation in media and yes this includes Sims. One thing I remember is the term symbolic annihilation which is the idea that the less you see of yourself in media (your gender, your skintone, your sexual-orientation and such) the less important you feel. This affects marginalized groups to a greater extent. Which is why deversity issues are commonly brought up by these groups and not by those that are already represented in media.

    I understand that you may not care about representation in Sims. But it's clear that others do. What do you gain by getting in the way of that?

    A sims' fantasy world where I can escape the very argument this thread is having. I am very nervous about the new sims' world the is currently being built.

    You can still have whatever kind of world you want. You can change every sim in that world to fit your vision, and can find mods for the rest. Giving the player additional options doesn't take anything away from you, and letting someone else have a seat at the table too doesn't take your chair away. This metaphorical table is not constrained by size.
  • CAPTAIN_NXR7CAPTAIN_NXR7 Posts: 4,451 Member
    edited August 2020
    There are 50 european/straight hairstyles for a single textured hair in this game. How are we being treated better exactly? We have to beg for more stuff to represent black sims.

    May I ask why you specifically chose to call them ‘European’ /straight hairstyles?

    Straight hair is very common in many parts of the world. In fact, Asia is the largest continent on earth and many people in Asian countries are born with naturally straight hair.
    On the other hand, I reside in a country where most people are pale skinned, with a lot of them having naturally textured or frizzy hair. They need to use the same hair products as a black person.

    I believe that the lack of textured hair in TS4 is due to the fact that creating a credible mesh is technically challenging. It will take more time and resources to create such a hairstyle than it would take to create straight, or even short hair.
    It’s certainly not because the team is purposely trying to underrepresent people with textured hair.
    I agree that there could definitely be more for everyone who wants to use textured hair on their sims.
  • muzickmagemuzickmage Posts: 986 Member
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    Trashmagic wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    mannanna wrote: »
    All I can say about SimGuruKate's twitter post is wow. I do know Sims is an American game and reflects on USA more than any other country, but to say it is bad white people weren't aware? Is she talking about her fellow Americans or all people that play Sims? My game is pretty diverse because of all the Sims the game itself creates but when I create a sim I create a white sim because that is how I and my world looks like...and now that's wrong because if I had been more inclusive I would have known about the other bad color swatches. No, it's not problematic, what's problematic is that it took so long for the developers to change it and too many Americans forget there are other places in the world outside of US.

    I'm frankly getting tired of my race being put on a pedastal and white people being shamed for simply being unaware, especially for something as minor as skintones in a videogame. I find her post quite annoying. Besides, as the above points out, Kate's being rather hypocritical.

    EDIT: Assuming she didn't know in the past either.

    You think black people are put on a pedestal? and white people are being shamed? Wow, White people must have a long history of oppression and being abused in this country, that is still ongoing to this day . White people must feel so bad that...black people are getting non ashy skintones.

    Look at all the likes for this tonedeaf, reverse reality comment. Such a shame. There are 50 european/straight hairstyles for a single textured hair in this game. How are we being treated better exactly? We have to beg for more stuff to represent black sims.

    Why does the sims have to represent black sims? Or any skin tone of ours? That's what i'm failing to understand. The need for the sims world to represent our way of life. How is it that the sims game is responsible for representing any of us in any way, whether it be skin tones, hair styles, or other ideas?

    Why do you need representation? Why do I? Why do any of us?

    Representations feels nice. There are many studies that cover the importance of representation in media and yes this includes Sims. One thing I remember is the term symbolic annihilation which is the idea that the less you see of yourself in media (your gender, your skintone, your sexual-orientation and such) the less important you feel. This affects marginalized groups to a greater extent. Which is why deversity issues are commonly brought up by these groups and not by those that are already represented in media.

    I understand that you may not care about representation in Sims. But it's clear that others do. What do you gain by getting in the way of that?

    A sims' fantasy world where I can escape the very argument this thread is having. I am very nervous about the new sims' world the is currently being built.

    You can still have whatever kind of world you want. You can change every sim in that world to fit your vision, and can find mods for the rest. Giving the player additional options doesn't take anything away from you, and letting someone else have a seat at the table too doesn't take your chair away. This metaphorical table is not constrained by size.

    Well, at least until EA/Maxis realizes that they can't possibly keep up with the demands of equality, and sims is gone forever due to inability to code all the demands of tomorrow.

    I agree. I am fine till then.

    I hope you don't think this is going to stop with new swatches. It's just a matter of time before EA/Maxis loses control of this new train ride.

    For now. We can all continue to debate the future of sims. Lets hope as well.... that there actually is a future of the sims.
  • OEII1001OEII1001 Posts: 3,682 Member
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    Trashmagic wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    mannanna wrote: »
    All I can say about SimGuruKate's twitter post is wow. I do know Sims is an American game and reflects on USA more than any other country, but to say it is bad white people weren't aware? Is she talking about her fellow Americans or all people that play Sims? My game is pretty diverse because of all the Sims the game itself creates but when I create a sim I create a white sim because that is how I and my world looks like...and now that's wrong because if I had been more inclusive I would have known about the other bad color swatches. No, it's not problematic, what's problematic is that it took so long for the developers to change it and too many Americans forget there are other places in the world outside of US.

    I'm frankly getting tired of my race being put on a pedastal and white people being shamed for simply being unaware, especially for something as minor as skintones in a videogame. I find her post quite annoying. Besides, as the above points out, Kate's being rather hypocritical.

    EDIT: Assuming she didn't know in the past either.

    You think black people are put on a pedestal? and white people are being shamed? Wow, White people must have a long history of oppression and being abused in this country, that is still ongoing to this day . White people must feel so bad that...black people are getting non ashy skintones.

    Look at all the likes for this tonedeaf, reverse reality comment. Such a shame. There are 50 european/straight hairstyles for a single textured hair in this game. How are we being treated better exactly? We have to beg for more stuff to represent black sims.

    Why does the sims have to represent black sims? Or any skin tone of ours? That's what i'm failing to understand. The need for the sims world to represent our way of life. How is it that the sims game is responsible for representing any of us in any way, whether it be skin tones, hair styles, or other ideas?

    Why do you need representation? Why do I? Why do any of us?

    Representations feels nice. There are many studies that cover the importance of representation in media and yes this includes Sims. One thing I remember is the term symbolic annihilation which is the idea that the less you see of yourself in media (your gender, your skintone, your sexual-orientation and such) the less important you feel. This affects marginalized groups to a greater extent. Which is why deversity issues are commonly brought up by these groups and not by those that are already represented in media.

    I understand that you may not care about representation in Sims. But it's clear that others do. What do you gain by getting in the way of that?

    A sims' fantasy world where I can escape the very argument this thread is having. I am very nervous about the new sims' world the is currently being built.

    You can still have whatever kind of world you want. You can change every sim in that world to fit your vision, and can find mods for the rest. Giving the player additional options doesn't take anything away from you, and letting someone else have a seat at the table too doesn't take your chair away. This metaphorical table is not constrained by size.

    Well, at least until EA/Maxis realizes that they can't possibly keep up with the demands of equality, and sims is gone forever due to inability to code all the demands of tomorrow.

    I agree. I am fine till then.

    I hope you don't think this is going to stop with new swatches. It's just a matter of time before EA/Maxis loses control of this new train ride.

    For now. We can all continue to debate the future of sims. Lets hope as well.... that there actually is a future of the sims.

    I don't think that this assertion that The Sims is going to be destroyed by an avalanche of demands made to placate "the other" is a helpful or realistic contribution to the discourse here.
  • muzickmagemuzickmage Posts: 986 Member
    edited August 2020
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    Trashmagic wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    mannanna wrote: »
    All I can say about SimGuruKate's twitter post is wow. I do know Sims is an American game and reflects on USA more than any other country, but to say it is bad white people weren't aware? Is she talking about her fellow Americans or all people that play Sims? My game is pretty diverse because of all the Sims the game itself creates but when I create a sim I create a white sim because that is how I and my world looks like...and now that's wrong because if I had been more inclusive I would have known about the other bad color swatches. No, it's not problematic, what's problematic is that it took so long for the developers to change it and too many Americans forget there are other places in the world outside of US.

    I'm frankly getting tired of my race being put on a pedastal and white people being shamed for simply being unaware, especially for something as minor as skintones in a videogame. I find her post quite annoying. Besides, as the above points out, Kate's being rather hypocritical.

    EDIT: Assuming she didn't know in the past either.

    You think black people are put on a pedestal? and white people are being shamed? Wow, White people must have a long history of oppression and being abused in this country, that is still ongoing to this day . White people must feel so bad that...black people are getting non ashy skintones.

    Look at all the likes for this tonedeaf, reverse reality comment. Such a shame. There are 50 european/straight hairstyles for a single textured hair in this game. How are we being treated better exactly? We have to beg for more stuff to represent black sims.

    Why does the sims have to represent black sims? Or any skin tone of ours? That's what i'm failing to understand. The need for the sims world to represent our way of life. How is it that the sims game is responsible for representing any of us in any way, whether it be skin tones, hair styles, or other ideas?

    Why do you need representation? Why do I? Why do any of us?

    Representations feels nice. There are many studies that cover the importance of representation in media and yes this includes Sims. One thing I remember is the term symbolic annihilation which is the idea that the less you see of yourself in media (your gender, your skintone, your sexual-orientation and such) the less important you feel. This affects marginalized groups to a greater extent. Which is why deversity issues are commonly brought up by these groups and not by those that are already represented in media.

    I understand that you may not care about representation in Sims. But it's clear that others do. What do you gain by getting in the way of that?

    A sims' fantasy world where I can escape the very argument this thread is having. I am very nervous about the new sims' world the is currently being built.

    You can still have whatever kind of world you want. You can change every sim in that world to fit your vision, and can find mods for the rest. Giving the player additional options doesn't take anything away from you, and letting someone else have a seat at the table too doesn't take your chair away. This metaphorical table is not constrained by size.

    Well, at least until EA/Maxis realizes that they can't possibly keep up with the demands of equality, and sims is gone forever due to inability to code all the demands of tomorrow.

    I agree. I am fine till then.

    I hope you don't think this is going to stop with new swatches. It's just a matter of time before EA/Maxis loses control of this new train ride.

    For now. We can all continue to debate the future of sims. Lets hope as well.... that there actually is a future of the sims.

    I don't think that this assertion that The Sims is going to be destroyed by an avalanche of demands made to placate "the other" is a helpful or realistic contribution to the discourse here.

    My assertion is... that one thing leads to another. And what we may all end up with is wishing that we spent more time inviting the sims into our world, and less time imposing our world onto the sims.

    But hey, in the meantime lets make sure we, as people, are all represented fairly, and equally in Brindleton Bay.

    Good luck to us all.
  • OEII1001OEII1001 Posts: 3,682 Member
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    Trashmagic wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    mannanna wrote: »
    All I can say about SimGuruKate's twitter post is wow. I do know Sims is an American game and reflects on USA more than any other country, but to say it is bad white people weren't aware? Is she talking about her fellow Americans or all people that play Sims? My game is pretty diverse because of all the Sims the game itself creates but when I create a sim I create a white sim because that is how I and my world looks like...and now that's wrong because if I had been more inclusive I would have known about the other bad color swatches. No, it's not problematic, what's problematic is that it took so long for the developers to change it and too many Americans forget there are other places in the world outside of US.

    I'm frankly getting tired of my race being put on a pedastal and white people being shamed for simply being unaware, especially for something as minor as skintones in a videogame. I find her post quite annoying. Besides, as the above points out, Kate's being rather hypocritical.

    EDIT: Assuming she didn't know in the past either.

    You think black people are put on a pedestal? and white people are being shamed? Wow, White people must have a long history of oppression and being abused in this country, that is still ongoing to this day . White people must feel so bad that...black people are getting non ashy skintones.

    Look at all the likes for this tonedeaf, reverse reality comment. Such a shame. There are 50 european/straight hairstyles for a single textured hair in this game. How are we being treated better exactly? We have to beg for more stuff to represent black sims.

    Why does the sims have to represent black sims? Or any skin tone of ours? That's what i'm failing to understand. The need for the sims world to represent our way of life. How is it that the sims game is responsible for representing any of us in any way, whether it be skin tones, hair styles, or other ideas?

    Why do you need representation? Why do I? Why do any of us?

    Representations feels nice. There are many studies that cover the importance of representation in media and yes this includes Sims. One thing I remember is the term symbolic annihilation which is the idea that the less you see of yourself in media (your gender, your skintone, your sexual-orientation and such) the less important you feel. This affects marginalized groups to a greater extent. Which is why deversity issues are commonly brought up by these groups and not by those that are already represented in media.

    I understand that you may not care about representation in Sims. But it's clear that others do. What do you gain by getting in the way of that?

    A sims' fantasy world where I can escape the very argument this thread is having. I am very nervous about the new sims' world the is currently being built.

    You can still have whatever kind of world you want. You can change every sim in that world to fit your vision, and can find mods for the rest. Giving the player additional options doesn't take anything away from you, and letting someone else have a seat at the table too doesn't take your chair away. This metaphorical table is not constrained by size.

    Well, at least until EA/Maxis realizes that they can't possibly keep up with the demands of equality, and sims is gone forever due to inability to code all the demands of tomorrow.

    I agree. I am fine till then.

    I hope you don't think this is going to stop with new swatches. It's just a matter of time before EA/Maxis loses control of this new train ride.

    For now. We can all continue to debate the future of sims. Lets hope as well.... that there actually is a future of the sims.

    I don't think that this assertion that The Sims is going to be destroyed by an avalanche of demands made to placate "the other" is a helpful or realistic contribution to the discourse here.

    My assertion is... that one thing leads to another. And what we may all end up with is wishing that we spent more time inviting the sims into our world, and less time imposing our world onto the sims.

    But hey, in the meantime lets make sure we, as people, are all represented fairly, and equally in Brindleton Bay.
    Good luck to us all.

    So the slippery slope runs from enhanced gender options, to new dark skin tones, to something something Brindleton Bay, and then to the end of The Sims and, presumably, ourselves? Got it. I'll keep an eye out.
  • Sim_ArchitectsSim_Architects Posts: 302 Member
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    Trashmagic wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    mannanna wrote: »
    All I can say about SimGuruKate's twitter post is wow. I do know Sims is an American game and reflects on USA more than any other country, but to say it is bad white people weren't aware? Is she talking about her fellow Americans or all people that play Sims? My game is pretty diverse because of all the Sims the game itself creates but when I create a sim I create a white sim because that is how I and my world looks like...and now that's wrong because if I had been more inclusive I would have known about the other bad color swatches. No, it's not problematic, what's problematic is that it took so long for the developers to change it and too many Americans forget there are other places in the world outside of US.

    I'm frankly getting tired of my race being put on a pedastal and white people being shamed for simply being unaware, especially for something as minor as skintones in a videogame. I find her post quite annoying. Besides, as the above points out, Kate's being rather hypocritical.

    EDIT: Assuming she didn't know in the past either.

    You think black people are put on a pedestal? and white people are being shamed? Wow, White people must have a long history of oppression and being abused in this country, that is still ongoing to this day . White people must feel so bad that...black people are getting non ashy skintones.

    Look at all the likes for this tonedeaf, reverse reality comment. Such a shame. There are 50 european/straight hairstyles for a single textured hair in this game. How are we being treated better exactly? We have to beg for more stuff to represent black sims.

    Why does the sims have to represent black sims? Or any skin tone of ours? That's what i'm failing to understand. The need for the sims world to represent our way of life. How is it that the sims game is responsible for representing any of us in any way, whether it be skin tones, hair styles, or other ideas?

    Why do you need representation? Why do I? Why do any of us?

    Representations feels nice. There are many studies that cover the importance of representation in media and yes this includes Sims. One thing I remember is the term symbolic annihilation which is the idea that the less you see of yourself in media (your gender, your skintone, your sexual-orientation and such) the less important you feel. This affects marginalized groups to a greater extent. Which is why deversity issues are commonly brought up by these groups and not by those that are already represented in media.

    I understand that you may not care about representation in Sims. But it's clear that others do. What do you gain by getting in the way of that?

    A sims' fantasy world where I can escape the very argument this thread is having. I am very nervous about the new sims' world the is currently being built.

    You can still have whatever kind of world you want. You can change every sim in that world to fit your vision, and can find mods for the rest. Giving the player additional options doesn't take anything away from you, and letting someone else have a seat at the table too doesn't take your chair away. This metaphorical table is not constrained by size.

    Well, at least until EA/Maxis realizes that they can't possibly keep up with the demands of equality, and sims is gone forever due to inability to code all the demands of tomorrow.

    I agree. I am fine till then.

    I hope you don't think this is going to stop with new swatches. It's just a matter of time before EA/Maxis loses control of this new train ride.

    For now. We can all continue to debate the future of sims. Lets hope as well.... that there actually is a future of the sims.

    I don't think that this assertion that The Sims is going to be destroyed by an avalanche of demands made to placate "the other" is a helpful or realistic contribution to the discourse here.

    Thats the overtones that im getting from this message too. I thought we were all simmers though.
  • mannannamannanna Posts: 466 Member
    Somewhere, someplace Maxis themselves said that everyone should be able to recreate themselves in Sims. IMO that's a huge responsibility but it is what was said. The issue with the darker ones as I see it is how blotchy and bad they look up close, the lighter ones aren't perfect but they don't appear blotchy. So for this to take so long to be corrected is bad

    What my biggest issue with the game is how it tries to represent reality instead of a game, I want the game to be a fun crazy spin on reality more like the first one. So for me the game is going in the wrong direction.

    ( and no not because of more and better swatches now, but the whole idea of reality, cars, babies etc. )
  • Sim_ArchitectsSim_Architects Posts: 302 Member
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    Trashmagic wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    mannanna wrote: »
    All I can say about SimGuruKate's twitter post is wow. I do know Sims is an American game and reflects on USA more than any other country, but to say it is bad white people weren't aware? Is she talking about her fellow Americans or all people that play Sims? My game is pretty diverse because of all the Sims the game itself creates but when I create a sim I create a white sim because that is how I and my world looks like...and now that's wrong because if I had been more inclusive I would have known about the other bad color swatches. No, it's not problematic, what's problematic is that it took so long for the developers to change it and too many Americans forget there are other places in the world outside of US.

    I'm frankly getting tired of my race being put on a pedastal and white people being shamed for simply being unaware, especially for something as minor as skintones in a videogame. I find her post quite annoying. Besides, as the above points out, Kate's being rather hypocritical.

    EDIT: Assuming she didn't know in the past either.

    You think black people are put on a pedestal? and white people are being shamed? Wow, White people must have a long history of oppression and being abused in this country, that is still ongoing to this day . White people must feel so bad that...black people are getting non ashy skintones.

    Look at all the likes for this tonedeaf, reverse reality comment. Such a shame. There are 50 european/straight hairstyles for a single textured hair in this game. How are we being treated better exactly? We have to beg for more stuff to represent black sims.

    Why does the sims have to represent black sims? Or any skin tone of ours? That's what i'm failing to understand. The need for the sims world to represent our way of life. How is it that the sims game is responsible for representing any of us in any way, whether it be skin tones, hair styles, or other ideas?

    Why do you need representation? Why do I? Why do any of us?

    Representations feels nice. There are many studies that cover the importance of representation in media and yes this includes Sims. One thing I remember is the term symbolic annihilation which is the idea that the less you see of yourself in media (your gender, your skintone, your sexual-orientation and such) the less important you feel. This affects marginalized groups to a greater extent. Which is why deversity issues are commonly brought up by these groups and not by those that are already represented in media.

    I understand that you may not care about representation in Sims. But it's clear that others do. What do you gain by getting in the way of that?

    A sims' fantasy world where I can escape the very argument this thread is having. I am very nervous about the new sims' world the is currently being built.

    You can still have whatever kind of world you want. You can change every sim in that world to fit your vision, and can find mods for the rest. Giving the player additional options doesn't take anything away from you, and letting someone else have a seat at the table too doesn't take your chair away. This metaphorical table is not constrained by size.

    Well, at least until EA/Maxis realizes that they can't possibly keep up with the demands of equality, and sims is gone forever due to inability to code all the demands of tomorrow.

    I agree. I am fine till then.

    I hope you don't think this is going to stop with new swatches. It's just a matter of time before EA/Maxis loses control of this new train ride.

    For now. We can all continue to debate the future of sims. Lets hope as well.... that there actually is a future of the sims.

    I don't think that this assertion that The Sims is going to be destroyed by an avalanche of demands made to placate "the other" is a helpful or realistic contribution to the discourse here.

    My assertion is... that one thing leads to another. And what we may all end up with is wishing that we spent more time inviting the sims into our world, and less time imposing our world onto the sims.

    But hey, in the meantime lets make sure we, as people, are all represented fairly, and equally in Brindleton Bay.
    Good luck to us all.

    So the slippery slope runs from enhanced gender options, to new dark skin tones, to something something Brindleton Bay, and then to the end of The Sims and, presumably, ourselves? Got it. I'll keep an eye out.

    Including darker skintones and some curlier hairstyles is going to be the end of the Sims as we know it *eyeroll*
  • muzickmagemuzickmage Posts: 986 Member
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    Trashmagic wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    mannanna wrote: »
    All I can say about SimGuruKate's twitter post is wow. I do know Sims is an American game and reflects on USA more than any other country, but to say it is bad white people weren't aware? Is she talking about her fellow Americans or all people that play Sims? My game is pretty diverse because of all the Sims the game itself creates but when I create a sim I create a white sim because that is how I and my world looks like...and now that's wrong because if I had been more inclusive I would have known about the other bad color swatches. No, it's not problematic, what's problematic is that it took so long for the developers to change it and too many Americans forget there are other places in the world outside of US.

    I'm frankly getting tired of my race being put on a pedastal and white people being shamed for simply being unaware, especially for something as minor as skintones in a videogame. I find her post quite annoying. Besides, as the above points out, Kate's being rather hypocritical.

    EDIT: Assuming she didn't know in the past either.

    You think black people are put on a pedestal? and white people are being shamed? Wow, White people must have a long history of oppression and being abused in this country, that is still ongoing to this day . White people must feel so bad that...black people are getting non ashy skintones.

    Look at all the likes for this tonedeaf, reverse reality comment. Such a shame. There are 50 european/straight hairstyles for a single textured hair in this game. How are we being treated better exactly? We have to beg for more stuff to represent black sims.

    Why does the sims have to represent black sims? Or any skin tone of ours? That's what i'm failing to understand. The need for the sims world to represent our way of life. How is it that the sims game is responsible for representing any of us in any way, whether it be skin tones, hair styles, or other ideas?

    Why do you need representation? Why do I? Why do any of us?

    Representations feels nice. There are many studies that cover the importance of representation in media and yes this includes Sims. One thing I remember is the term symbolic annihilation which is the idea that the less you see of yourself in media (your gender, your skintone, your sexual-orientation and such) the less important you feel. This affects marginalized groups to a greater extent. Which is why deversity issues are commonly brought up by these groups and not by those that are already represented in media.

    I understand that you may not care about representation in Sims. But it's clear that others do. What do you gain by getting in the way of that?

    A sims' fantasy world where I can escape the very argument this thread is having. I am very nervous about the new sims' world the is currently being built.

    You can still have whatever kind of world you want. You can change every sim in that world to fit your vision, and can find mods for the rest. Giving the player additional options doesn't take anything away from you, and letting someone else have a seat at the table too doesn't take your chair away. This metaphorical table is not constrained by size.

    Well, at least until EA/Maxis realizes that they can't possibly keep up with the demands of equality, and sims is gone forever due to inability to code all the demands of tomorrow.

    I agree. I am fine till then.

    I hope you don't think this is going to stop with new swatches. It's just a matter of time before EA/Maxis loses control of this new train ride.

    For now. We can all continue to debate the future of sims. Lets hope as well.... that there actually is a future of the sims.

    I don't think that this assertion that The Sims is going to be destroyed by an avalanche of demands made to placate "the other" is a helpful or realistic contribution to the discourse here.

    My assertion is... that one thing leads to another. And what we may all end up with is wishing that we spent more time inviting the sims into our world, and less time imposing our world onto the sims.

    But hey, in the meantime lets make sure we, as people, are all represented fairly, and equally in Brindleton Bay.
    Good luck to us all.

    So the slippery slope runs from enhanced gender options, to new dark skin tones, to something something Brindleton Bay, and then to the end of The Sims and, presumably, ourselves? Got it. I'll keep an eye out.

    Isn't that what we are discussing here. Equal rights as citizens of earth to be represented equally in the sims game? Doesn't that include Brindleton Bay?

    We should be talking about what Rights the "sims" have in the sims game. Not what Rights "we" have. Why are so many of you forgetting/or ignoring that the sims is a game about "sims". We are only playing god over these artificial beings. And as God of their little lives, we are what? Imposing our racial, cultural lives onto them.

    EA/Maxis should be limiting the sims to a sims world of fantasy, and leaving the politics of our daily lives out of it. Yes, i'm afraid this is going to get messy. In the long run, I really don't see all of this playing out to anyone's advantage. In the short term, sure, all looks like a great step forward. But down the road. I don't feel like we are heading somewhere positive.

    Sorry, but that's my opinion.
  • OEII1001OEII1001 Posts: 3,682 Member
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    Trashmagic wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    mannanna wrote: »
    All I can say about SimGuruKate's twitter post is wow. I do know Sims is an American game and reflects on USA more than any other country, but to say it is bad white people weren't aware? Is she talking about her fellow Americans or all people that play Sims? My game is pretty diverse because of all the Sims the game itself creates but when I create a sim I create a white sim because that is how I and my world looks like...and now that's wrong because if I had been more inclusive I would have known about the other bad color swatches. No, it's not problematic, what's problematic is that it took so long for the developers to change it and too many Americans forget there are other places in the world outside of US.

    I'm frankly getting tired of my race being put on a pedastal and white people being shamed for simply being unaware, especially for something as minor as skintones in a videogame. I find her post quite annoying. Besides, as the above points out, Kate's being rather hypocritical.

    EDIT: Assuming she didn't know in the past either.

    You think black people are put on a pedestal? and white people are being shamed? Wow, White people must have a long history of oppression and being abused in this country, that is still ongoing to this day . White people must feel so bad that...black people are getting non ashy skintones.

    Look at all the likes for this tonedeaf, reverse reality comment. Such a shame. There are 50 european/straight hairstyles for a single textured hair in this game. How are we being treated better exactly? We have to beg for more stuff to represent black sims.

    Why does the sims have to represent black sims? Or any skin tone of ours? That's what i'm failing to understand. The need for the sims world to represent our way of life. How is it that the sims game is responsible for representing any of us in any way, whether it be skin tones, hair styles, or other ideas?

    Why do you need representation? Why do I? Why do any of us?

    Representations feels nice. There are many studies that cover the importance of representation in media and yes this includes Sims. One thing I remember is the term symbolic annihilation which is the idea that the less you see of yourself in media (your gender, your skintone, your sexual-orientation and such) the less important you feel. This affects marginalized groups to a greater extent. Which is why deversity issues are commonly brought up by these groups and not by those that are already represented in media.

    I understand that you may not care about representation in Sims. But it's clear that others do. What do you gain by getting in the way of that?

    A sims' fantasy world where I can escape the very argument this thread is having. I am very nervous about the new sims' world the is currently being built.

    You can still have whatever kind of world you want. You can change every sim in that world to fit your vision, and can find mods for the rest. Giving the player additional options doesn't take anything away from you, and letting someone else have a seat at the table too doesn't take your chair away. This metaphorical table is not constrained by size.

    Well, at least until EA/Maxis realizes that they can't possibly keep up with the demands of equality, and sims is gone forever due to inability to code all the demands of tomorrow.

    I agree. I am fine till then.

    I hope you don't think this is going to stop with new swatches. It's just a matter of time before EA/Maxis loses control of this new train ride.

    For now. We can all continue to debate the future of sims. Lets hope as well.... that there actually is a future of the sims.

    I don't think that this assertion that The Sims is going to be destroyed by an avalanche of demands made to placate "the other" is a helpful or realistic contribution to the discourse here.

    My assertion is... that one thing leads to another. And what we may all end up with is wishing that we spent more time inviting the sims into our world, and less time imposing our world onto the sims.

    But hey, in the meantime lets make sure we, as people, are all represented fairly, and equally in Brindleton Bay.
    Good luck to us all.

    So the slippery slope runs from enhanced gender options, to new dark skin tones, to something something Brindleton Bay, and then to the end of The Sims and, presumably, ourselves? Got it. I'll keep an eye out.

    Isn't that what we are discussing here. Equal rights as citizens of earth to be represented equally in the sims game? Doesn't that include Brindleton Bay?

    We should be talking about what Rights the "sims" have in the sims game. Not what Rights "we" have. Why are so many of you forgetting/or ignoring that the sims is a game about "sims". We are only playing god over these artificial beings. And as God of their little lives, we are what? Imposing our racial, cultural lives onto them.

    EA/Maxis should be limiting the sims to a sims world of fantasy, and leaving the politics of our daily lives out of it. Yes, i'm afraid this is going to get messy. In the long run, I really don't see all of this playing out to anyone's advantage. In the short term, sure, all looks like a great step forward. But down the road. I don't feel like we are heading somewhere positive.

    Sorry, but that's my opinion.

    Have you noticed that it's only ever "politics" when the characters and/or assets are related to people who aren't white? Weird, isn't it? It's like there are two ethnicities -- white and "political". It's also like there are two orientations -- straight and "political". Really makes you think doesn't it? At least, it should make you think.
  • Sim_ArchitectsSim_Architects Posts: 302 Member
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    Trashmagic wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    mannanna wrote: »
    All I can say about SimGuruKate's twitter post is wow. I do know Sims is an American game and reflects on USA more than any other country, but to say it is bad white people weren't aware? Is she talking about her fellow Americans or all people that play Sims? My game is pretty diverse because of all the Sims the game itself creates but when I create a sim I create a white sim because that is how I and my world looks like...and now that's wrong because if I had been more inclusive I would have known about the other bad color swatches. No, it's not problematic, what's problematic is that it took so long for the developers to change it and too many Americans forget there are other places in the world outside of US.

    I'm frankly getting tired of my race being put on a pedastal and white people being shamed for simply being unaware, especially for something as minor as skintones in a videogame. I find her post quite annoying. Besides, as the above points out, Kate's being rather hypocritical.

    EDIT: Assuming she didn't know in the past either.

    You think black people are put on a pedestal? and white people are being shamed? Wow, White people must have a long history of oppression and being abused in this country, that is still ongoing to this day . White people must feel so bad that...black people are getting non ashy skintones.

    Look at all the likes for this tonedeaf, reverse reality comment. Such a shame. There are 50 european/straight hairstyles for a single textured hair in this game. How are we being treated better exactly? We have to beg for more stuff to represent black sims.

    Why does the sims have to represent black sims? Or any skin tone of ours? That's what i'm failing to understand. The need for the sims world to represent our way of life. How is it that the sims game is responsible for representing any of us in any way, whether it be skin tones, hair styles, or other ideas?

    Why do you need representation? Why do I? Why do any of us?

    Representations feels nice. There are many studies that cover the importance of representation in media and yes this includes Sims. One thing I remember is the term symbolic annihilation which is the idea that the less you see of yourself in media (your gender, your skintone, your sexual-orientation and such) the less important you feel. This affects marginalized groups to a greater extent. Which is why deversity issues are commonly brought up by these groups and not by those that are already represented in media.

    I understand that you may not care about representation in Sims. But it's clear that others do. What do you gain by getting in the way of that?

    A sims' fantasy world where I can escape the very argument this thread is having. I am very nervous about the new sims' world the is currently being built.

    You can still have whatever kind of world you want. You can change every sim in that world to fit your vision, and can find mods for the rest. Giving the player additional options doesn't take anything away from you, and letting someone else have a seat at the table too doesn't take your chair away. This metaphorical table is not constrained by size.

    Well, at least until EA/Maxis realizes that they can't possibly keep up with the demands of equality, and sims is gone forever due to inability to code all the demands of tomorrow.

    I agree. I am fine till then.

    I hope you don't think this is going to stop with new swatches. It's just a matter of time before EA/Maxis loses control of this new train ride.

    For now. We can all continue to debate the future of sims. Lets hope as well.... that there actually is a future of the sims.

    I don't think that this assertion that The Sims is going to be destroyed by an avalanche of demands made to placate "the other" is a helpful or realistic contribution to the discourse here.

    My assertion is... that one thing leads to another. And what we may all end up with is wishing that we spent more time inviting the sims into our world, and less time imposing our world onto the sims.

    But hey, in the meantime lets make sure we, as people, are all represented fairly, and equally in Brindleton Bay.
    Good luck to us all.

    So the slippery slope runs from enhanced gender options, to new dark skin tones, to something something Brindleton Bay, and then to the end of The Sims and, presumably, ourselves? Got it. I'll keep an eye out.

    Isn't that what we are discussing here. Equal rights as citizens of earth to be represented equally in the sims game? Doesn't that include Brindleton Bay?

    We should be talking about what Rights the "sims" have in the sims game. Not what Rights "we" have. Why are so many of you forgetting/or ignoring that the sims is a game about "sims". We are only playing god over these artificial beings. And as God of their little lives, we are what? Imposing our racial, cultural lives onto them.

    EA/Maxis should be limiting the sims to a sims world of fantasy, and leaving the politics of our daily lives out of it. Yes, i'm afraid this is going to get messy. In the long run, I really don't see all of this playing out to anyone's advantage. In the short term, sure, all looks like a great step forward. But down the road. I don't feel like we are heading somewhere positive.

    Sorry, but that's my opinion.

    Have you noticed that it's only ever "politics" when the characters and/or assets are related to people who aren't white? Weird, isn't it? It's like there are two ethnicities -- white and "political". It's also like there are two orientations -- straight and "political". Really makes you think doesn't it? At least, it should make you think.

    Yeah, and the funny thing is the argument is that we should keep "Real life" out of the sims. Okay, well then why are real life prejudices leaking into these rationalizations? :|
  • OEII1001OEII1001 Posts: 3,682 Member
    edited August 2020
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    Trashmagic wrote: »
    muzickmage wrote: »
    mannanna wrote: »
    All I can say about SimGuruKate's twitter post is wow. I do know Sims is an American game and reflects on USA more than any other country, but to say it is bad white people weren't aware? Is she talking about her fellow Americans or all people that play Sims? My game is pretty diverse because of all the Sims the game itself creates but when I create a sim I create a white sim because that is how I and my world looks like...and now that's wrong because if I had been more inclusive I would have known about the other bad color swatches. No, it's not problematic, what's problematic is that it took so long for the developers to change it and too many Americans forget there are other places in the world outside of US.

    I'm frankly getting tired of my race being put on a pedastal and white people being shamed for simply being unaware, especially for something as minor as skintones in a videogame. I find her post quite annoying. Besides, as the above points out, Kate's being rather hypocritical.

    EDIT: Assuming she didn't know in the past either.

    You think black people are put on a pedestal? and white people are being shamed? Wow, White people must have a long history of oppression and being abused in this country, that is still ongoing to this day . White people must feel so bad that...black people are getting non ashy skintones.

    Look at all the likes for this tonedeaf, reverse reality comment. Such a shame. There are 50 european/straight hairstyles for a single textured hair in this game. How are we being treated better exactly? We have to beg for more stuff to represent black sims.

    Why does the sims have to represent black sims? Or any skin tone of ours? That's what i'm failing to understand. The need for the sims world to represent our way of life. How is it that the sims game is responsible for representing any of us in any way, whether it be skin tones, hair styles, or other ideas?

    Why do you need representation? Why do I? Why do any of us?

    Representations feels nice. There are many studies that cover the importance of representation in media and yes this includes Sims. One thing I remember is the term symbolic annihilation which is the idea that the less you see of yourself in media (your gender, your skintone, your sexual-orientation and such) the less important you feel. This affects marginalized groups to a greater extent. Which is why deversity issues are commonly brought up by these groups and not by those that are already represented in media.

    I understand that you may not care about representation in Sims. But it's clear that others do. What do you gain by getting in the way of that?

    A sims' fantasy world where I can escape the very argument this thread is having. I am very nervous about the new sims' world the is currently being built.

    You can still have whatever kind of world you want. You can change every sim in that world to fit your vision, and can find mods for the rest. Giving the player additional options doesn't take anything away from you, and letting someone else have a seat at the table too doesn't take your chair away. This metaphorical table is not constrained by size.

    Well, at least until EA/Maxis realizes that they can't possibly keep up with the demands of equality, and sims is gone forever due to inability to code all the demands of tomorrow.

    I agree. I am fine till then.

    I hope you don't think this is going to stop with new swatches. It's just a matter of time before EA/Maxis loses control of this new train ride.

    For now. We can all continue to debate the future of sims. Lets hope as well.... that there actually is a future of the sims.

    I don't think that this assertion that The Sims is going to be destroyed by an avalanche of demands made to placate "the other" is a helpful or realistic contribution to the discourse here.

    My assertion is... that one thing leads to another. And what we may all end up with is wishing that we spent more time inviting the sims into our world, and less time imposing our world onto the sims.

    But hey, in the meantime lets make sure we, as people, are all represented fairly, and equally in Brindleton Bay.
    Good luck to us all.

    So the slippery slope runs from enhanced gender options, to new dark skin tones, to something something Brindleton Bay, and then to the end of The Sims and, presumably, ourselves? Got it. I'll keep an eye out.

    Isn't that what we are discussing here. Equal rights as citizens of earth to be represented equally in the sims game? Doesn't that include Brindleton Bay?

    We should be talking about what Rights the "sims" have in the sims game. Not what Rights "we" have. Why are so many of you forgetting/or ignoring that the sims is a game about "sims". We are only playing god over these artificial beings. And as God of their little lives, we are what? Imposing our racial, cultural lives onto them.

    EA/Maxis should be limiting the sims to a sims world of fantasy, and leaving the politics of our daily lives out of it. Yes, i'm afraid this is going to get messy. In the long run, I really don't see all of this playing out to anyone's advantage. In the short term, sure, all looks like a great step forward. But down the road. I don't feel like we are heading somewhere positive.

    Sorry, but that's my opinion.

    Have you noticed that it's only ever "politics" when the characters and/or assets are related to people who aren't white? Weird, isn't it? It's like there are two ethnicities -- white and "political". It's also like there are two orientations -- straight and "political". Really makes you think doesn't it? At least, it should make you think.

    Yeah, and the funny thing is the argument is that we should keep "Real life" out of the sims. Okay, well then why are real life prejudices leaking into these rationalizations? :|

    As I have said on another gaming forum, gaming spaces are going to really grow up and be better places once we can get over this idea that there needs to be some sort of justification for your game's protagonist being something over than a grizzled white dude with a gun. When we can start to see something other than whiteness as default and everything else as pandering we'll be making real progress as human beings.
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