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Blatant racism vs Covert Racism that sadly and upsetting seems to exist in the sims

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  • LizzychicagoLizzychicago Posts: 872 Member
    I'm only speaking about the hair situation in the game...why there isn't really curly hair for Sims of Colour. I think...THINK...that it might be difficult to make and have look good, I mean they've just recently been creating really good curly/ethnic hairs and whilst its not perfect and all inclusive YET, I believe they're working towards it. I will say this about skintones...they're terrible but the devs know this and are working on it. Just my 2 cents. I do, however, feel that everyone SHOULD be able to recreate themselves if they so choose, and if there is a certain thing (skin tones) that is stopping that from happening, it needs to be fixed. I feel that the game is getting better every year, they're creating more inclusive items than they ever have before. We've got at least a couple more years of this game, I'm excited to see where we go from here.
    Check my builds and Sims out on the Gallery, username Lizzychicago!
  • Sim_ArchitectsSim_Architects Posts: 302 Member
    Black simmers deserve tons of textured hairstyles , better skin tones and more content to make sims that remind them of themselves and their own families 🥳 And we will continue to demand those things. Just like everyone else has their own requests that don’t receive half this amount of criticism....for obvious reasons.

    For the people who don’t like that , thats their problem ✊🏽❗️
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    Flexono1 wrote: »
    You are definitely right.

    It seems that society views diversity=black, and kind of forgets that other minorities or PoC exist. If they really care about diversity, they would champion adding customisation that extends beyond black aesthetics

    I actually tend to create more Latinx characters, specifically Latinos (male), because where I grew up I had a lot of Latinx friends, and later co-workers. (I'm your typical white bread old lady, BTW.) I think it's more of an inadvertent racism than anything blatant or even covert. "Never attribute to malice what can equally attributed to stupidity" (or ignorance).

    My Sims are nothing like my current life. They're usually married (I'm now widowed since early May), they have nice houses (I'm an apartment dweller), they have good jobs (I'm retired), they have a lot of money (I'm on a fixed income)...sure, my Simself looks like me (maybe a little heavier since I've been losing weight) but her life is a lot different. I play my Sims not to represent myself as I am, but to play the "what if" game: what if I had married someone different, what if my husband and I had had kids, what if I'd become a famous writer, etc. I don't need an exact replica of myself. And the Sims world is a utopia of sorts; there's no racism, no sexism, no homophobia. You can have a Sim who is dirt-poor, then one day they win the lottery and get a million Simoleons, or you could just motherlode them that much money and freerealestate them into a mansion. :D Or you could play the Landgraabs, move them into a container house in Evergreen Harbor, take away their money and their jobs and make them start from scratch...oh, and give them screaming toddler triplets to deal with. :o
    Sorry for your loss. It is hard to lose any family member especially a spouse. I never liked the Landgraabs personally. But yes I get wanting to represent your own life and an imaginary life. I am a lot more evil towards my Sims while in real life I work for the community. I do like having that range of storytelling.

    Anyways I fully support having multiple races in the game. I'm mixed raced myself including Native American. I made an Iroquois Sim and a longhouse in the Sims 4 who is married to an alien disguised as a Canadian French Sim with the upgrowth challenge, so they are living off the grid in the 1800s. The cell phones kind of kill the storytelling with it, but I try and enjoying the family of five toddlers and a dog.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • muzickmagemuzickmage Posts: 986 Member
    edited August 2020
    @CAPTAIN_NXR7

    Every time I see your login name i'm reminded of Mass Effect. Wasn't that NX7, Or NR7? Or something like that?

    Edit:
    I actually had to look it up. That's how long it's been since I played the game. Apparently its... N7.

  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    Phew. I need a drink after that.
    I think I need one too. Gets exhausting. I just want my Sims games to progress not regress with the PC crowd stunting it with the "cancel culture".
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • mannannamannanna Posts: 466 Member
    Everyone is a Simmer...
    I think sometimes we forget...
  • CAPTAIN_NXR7CAPTAIN_NXR7 Posts: 4,451 Member
    edited August 2020
    muzickmage wrote: »
    @CAPTAIN_NXR7

    Every time I see your login name i'm reminded of Mass Effect. Wasn't that NX7, Or NR7? Or something like that?

    Edit:
    I actually had to look it up. That's how long it's been since I played the game. Apparently its... N7.

    @muzickmage

    Indeed it’s N7. My user name has a different meaning!
    I played a good bit of Mass Effect but I didn’t think of it when I created the name. Although now that you mention it I can understand how folks would see a similarity. :)
    Post edited by CAPTAIN_NXR7 on
  • EA_JozEA_Joz Posts: 3,164 EA Staff (retired)
    edited August 2020
    Hello everyone! We've removed a good amount of comments that were off-topic. Remember to keep things friendly and constructive regardless of what your opinion is on the subject at hand. There is no need to argue back and forth to the point that you start insulting each other which is against the forum rules. Please review our Posting Rules & Guidelines here:

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/categories/forum-rules

    EA_Joz
    Post edited by EA_Joz on
  • drakharisdrakharis Posts: 1,478 Member
    @EA_Joz Thank you,
    Playtesting - not just tabletop games and card games any more. Really that should have been playtested in Beta and not [img]just with accounting and marketing but actual players. https://i.imgur.com/t48COW6.jpg[/img]
  • haneulhaneul Posts: 1,952 Member
    edited August 2020
    Cinebar wrote: »
    When people say indigenous peoples I have to wonder do they actually know thousands, millions of years ago, there was a huge land mass, that as the earth evolved was broken up, and those 'indigenous people' were actually from an area known today as Siberia? (not born on these lands) So, thinking someone is indigenous is presumptive. Also, there were warring tribes who took other tribes' lands as time went on, and so when you think of this part of land or that place as if here is the home of an indigenous people, is it really? True History matters, while we are on the subject of race, so many in America, whether they are 'native indian' or black or white, or even Asian, have become part of a big melting pot.

    Maybe you're a little confused and I'm not sure where you're from, but in places like the United States, the government made up laws and categories about races and still uses those to identify people. So when individuals use the term "indigenous people," they generally mean the discrete group of people who identify as Native Americans, First Nations' peoples, etc. They don't mean white or black people. Like black people, though, this group has been and is still discriminated against in the United States, so it's important to be particularly mindful about their representation in the media, games, etc.
    Wanting to see them in some tradional garb from thousands of years ago. (So you can say how diverse you are) Think on it, the light will come to you. It's about as offensive as everyone wanting to see an afro from the 70's the go to hairstyle for a black Sim as if blacks are stuck in the 70's clothes and hairstyles. just so people can show how diverse they are. As if no one is living in modern times right now. :s Stereotyping all for the sake of 'divesity' is beyond belief here. As if all young, 'native Americans' all have very long hair and never get a hair cut. lol, It's remarkable so many think they are being diverse when it's actually bigotry.

    @drakharis' request isn't about clothes, though. It's about presets and certain facial features, so I don't think anyone is really stereotyping here. People just want to see Sims like themselves represented in the game. Also, an afro is a really natural look for black people (it's just how a lot of black people's hair grows) so asking for that isn't really asking for a 70's style, just what happens when hair is combed without a lot of products and extra stuff done to it.


  • RouensimsRouensims Posts: 4,858 Member
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    Yeah, my avi is a character from a GAME.I wish I had a white fluffy kitty in my hands right now! What about simmers with plumbobs or animals for avis?? My user is strawberryyogurt but i PROMISE i dont identify as a dairy product.

    Wait, WHAT?! Are you telling me these AVIS aren’t necessarily the actual forum members?
    Does this mean I haven’t been communicating with Cats and Pups and Cow Plants and Witches and Plumbobs and Fruits and all these other wonderful looking beings the entire time?

    Don’t tell me you guys are all just simple humans like me...

    Pssh. I'm totally my avatar. I'm a fortune telling, evil vampire from a nightmare carnival who laughs at despair.

    I'm a building. At night. I don't even have hands, so don't ask me how I'm typing this; I don't know! How am I even sentient?!?

    I don’t get these jokes. I look EXACTLY like my avatar.
    Ooh Be Gah!! Whipna Choba-Dog? Whipna Choba-Dog!! :smiley:
  • KaeChan2089KaeChan2089 Posts: 4,944 Member
    Rouensims wrote: »
    OEII1001 wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    Yeah, my avi is a character from a GAME.I wish I had a white fluffy kitty in my hands right now! What about simmers with plumbobs or animals for avis?? My user is strawberryyogurt but i PROMISE i dont identify as a dairy product.

    Wait, WHAT?! Are you telling me these AVIS aren’t necessarily the actual forum members?
    Does this mean I haven’t been communicating with Cats and Pups and Cow Plants and Witches and Plumbobs and Fruits and all these other wonderful looking beings the entire time?

    Don’t tell me you guys are all just simple humans like me...

    Pssh. I'm totally my avatar. I'm a fortune telling, evil vampire from a nightmare carnival who laughs at despair.

    I'm a building. At night. I don't even have hands, so don't ask me how I'm typing this; I don't know! How am I even sentient?!?

    I don’t get these jokes. I look EXACTLY like my avatar.

    Actually I LOVE your avatar it's one of my favs to see in the forum...also noticed puppers pipe is in it's ear <3 LOL!
  • RouensimsRouensims Posts: 4,858 Member
    edited August 2020
    I used to work for the government. In the United States, as of a few years ago, 60% of people from the group of US “indigenous peoples” preferred to be referred to as “Indians.” I confirmed this fact with pacific northwest tribe members, who thought other appellations sounded weird. Just FYI.

    Back on topic... I hope everyone feels they can represent themselves and loved ones in this game at some point.

    Ooh Be Gah!! Whipna Choba-Dog? Whipna Choba-Dog!! :smiley:
  • lisamwittlisamwitt Posts: 5,079 Member
    @drakharis, are you OK?

    You haven't commented yet

    Perhaps it was a run by fruiting...

    I've been in threads on here where people post something they know may be a controversial topic, then they never post again, though I assume they read the responses. Either that or they just got busy.
    Gallery ID: LadyGray01
  • CAPTAIN_NXR7CAPTAIN_NXR7 Posts: 4,451 Member
    @lisamwitt wrote: »
    @drakharis, are you OK?

    You haven't commented yet

    Perhaps it was a run by fruiting...

    I've been in threads on here where people post something they know may be a controversial topic, then they never post again, though I assume they read the responses. Either that or they just got busy.

    Yes, they commented. Maybe not directly to my post, but they did share their views. ;)
  • SheriSim57SheriSim57 Posts: 6,934 Member
    I’m sorry, I don’t see this as racism. Racism is when you think your race is superior to others. And I don’t think EA’s intention was that at all. In fact, I think they are trying to be as inclusive as they can be. I’m a blond, but my color blond is not in the few hair colors they have, i have thin hair, which their hairstyles don’t really represent. I don’t think this is because of racism, I think it is because they have limited colors and textures ( I do miss the color wheel). I’m not good enough at using the tools to actually make a sim that really looks like me, but some people are so good at using the tools that they can make really strange looking sims. I think it is great to speak up and ask for more inclusion in the game, but it is a game. I wish they had religion in the game, and disabilities, more personalities and likes vs. dislikes in the game. But, we all know with each of these things that something which represented us would be missing because it is a game. And to accuse the people who put the game together of racism I believe is wrong, because their intention was to be inclusive as much as they could, not to distinguish one race as superior to another.
  • j1z1j1z1 Posts: 311 Member
    I think it's dangerous to still think racism only manifests itself in the form of conscious hatred when it's something that has been ingrained into us to the point we don't notice it. Unintentional exclusion is a sympton of it. It doesn't make one hateful, but it does take an active effort to acknowkedge and remedy. Not believing you're superior doesn't keep you from engaging in small actions that may seem harmless but amount to a lot, especially within a specific historical context.
  • SheriSim57SheriSim57 Posts: 6,934 Member
    j1z1 wrote: »
    I think it's dangerous to still think racism only manifests itself in the form of conscious hatred when it's something that has been ingrained into us to the point we don't notice it. Unintentional exclusion is a sympton of it. It doesn't make one hateful, but it does take an active effort to acknowkedge and remedy. Not believing you're superior doesn't keep you from engaging in small actions that may seem harmless but amount to a lot, especially within a specific historical context.

    Well, I am coming from the definition of racism. Which means you believe another race is inferior to your own. Of course we are all going to say or do something that others are going to interpret as racist..,,,, it doesn’t matter what race you are. I’m mostly English and German American. My husband was Mexicsn American, one of my daughters is engaged to a boy who is half Black and half Caucasian ( sorry I don’t know the exact countries of origin.). I live more around my husbands family and although my husband passed away years ago, I am closer to more members of his family than I am my own and care for them just like they were flesh and blood. Believe me I have seen my fair share of racist comments from both Mexicsn Americans and Caucasians. Of course it would be nice to have more inclusion in the sims, but it’s a game and it’s not going to have everything. It’s still missing real babies and cars!

  • j1z1j1z1 Posts: 311 Member
    SheriSim57 wrote: »
    j1z1 wrote: »
    I think it's dangerous to still think racism only manifests itself in the form of conscious hatred when it's something that has been ingrained into us to the point we don't notice it. Unintentional exclusion is a sympton of it. It doesn't make one hateful, but it does take an active effort to acknowkedge and remedy. Not believing you're superior doesn't keep you from engaging in small actions that may seem harmless but amount to a lot, especially within a specific historical context.

    Well, I am coming from the definition of racism. Which means you believe another race is inferior to your own. Of course we are all going to say or do something that others are going to interpret as racist..,,,, it doesn’t matter what race you are. I’m mostly English and German American. My husband was Mexicsn American, one of my daughters is engaged to a boy who is half Black and half Caucasian ( sorry I don’t know the exact countries of origin.). I live more around my husbands family and although my husband passed away years ago, I am closer to more members of his family than I am my own and care for them just like they were flesh and blood. Believe me I have seen my fair share of racist comments from both Mexicsn Americans and Caucasians. Of course it would be nice to have more inclusion in the sims, but it’s a game and it’s not going to have everything. It’s still missing real babies and cars!

    Yeah, I'm going by that definition too. I'm just saying it has many ways of manifesting itself and not all of them are conscious, deliberate or violent, but still have consequences that people who are not at the end of it can easily overlook.
  • NorthDakotaGamerNorthDakotaGamer Posts: 2,559 Member
    I don't see racism. But I also am not outright looking to find it. My sims in my game also reflect more of what I expeience IRL. I primarily create sims that look more Norwegian, Scandinavian, German, French, or Lakota Souix (a Native American tribe). I hardly encounter other backgrounds, so there are not many blacks which I create.

    I also delete sims that do not fit my gameplay style. Many may see my game as too traditional/conservative or white-washed. You can create however diverse you really want.
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 2,724 Member
    j1z1 wrote: »
    SheriSim57 wrote: »
    j1z1 wrote: »
    I think it's dangerous to still think racism only manifests itself in the form of conscious hatred when it's something that has been ingrained into us to the point we don't notice it. Unintentional exclusion is a sympton of it. It doesn't make one hateful, but it does take an active effort to acknowkedge and remedy. Not believing you're superior doesn't keep you from engaging in small actions that may seem harmless but amount to a lot, especially within a specific historical context.

    Well, I am coming from the definition of racism. Which means you believe another race is inferior to your own. Of course we are all going to say or do something that others are going to interpret as racist..,,,, it doesn’t matter what race you are. I’m mostly English and German American. My husband was Mexicsn American, one of my daughters is engaged to a boy who is half Black and half Caucasian ( sorry I don’t know the exact countries of origin.). I live more around my husbands family and although my husband passed away years ago, I am closer to more members of his family than I am my own and care for them just like they were flesh and blood. Believe me I have seen my fair share of racist comments from both Mexicsn Americans and Caucasians. Of course it would be nice to have more inclusion in the sims, but it’s a game and it’s not going to have everything. It’s still missing real babies and cars!

    Yeah, I'm going by that definition too. I'm just saying it has many ways of manifesting itself and not all of them are conscious, deliberate or violent, but still have consequences that people who are not at the end of it can easily overlook.

    Well then everyone is at least a little racist because I bet with all of you, you all have accidentally exluded or overlooked at least one race, sexual orientation etc. in your game. So nobody is innocent.
    Also exlusion is not nessecarily always based on the belief that one is inferior. Like you said sometimes it's accidental because we tend to create sims that feel familiar to us.
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • j1z1j1z1 Posts: 311 Member
    j1z1 wrote: »
    SheriSim57 wrote: »
    j1z1 wrote: »
    I think it's dangerous to still think racism only manifests itself in the form of conscious hatred when it's something that has been ingrained into us to the point we don't notice it. Unintentional exclusion is a sympton of it. It doesn't make one hateful, but it does take an active effort to acknowkedge and remedy. Not believing you're superior doesn't keep you from engaging in small actions that may seem harmless but amount to a lot, especially within a specific historical context.

    Well, I am coming from the definition of racism. Which means you believe another race is inferior to your own. Of course we are all going to say or do something that others are going to interpret as racist..,,,, it doesn’t matter what race you are. I’m mostly English and German American. My husband was Mexicsn American, one of my daughters is engaged to a boy who is half Black and half Caucasian ( sorry I don’t know the exact countries of origin.). I live more around my husbands family and although my husband passed away years ago, I am closer to more members of his family than I am my own and care for them just like they were flesh and blood. Believe me I have seen my fair share of racist comments from both Mexicsn Americans and Caucasians. Of course it would be nice to have more inclusion in the sims, but it’s a game and it’s not going to have everything. It’s still missing real babies and cars!

    Yeah, I'm going by that definition too. I'm just saying it has many ways of manifesting itself and not all of them are conscious, deliberate or violent, but still have consequences that people who are not at the end of it can easily overlook.

    Well then everyone is at least a little racist because I bet with all of you, you all have accidentally exluded or overlooked at least one race, sexual orientation etc. in your game. So nobody is innocent.
    Also exlusion is not nessecarily always based on the belief that one is inferior. Like you said sometimes it's accidental because we tend to create sims that feel familiar to us.

    Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. How could we not be? It's been drilled into us very subtly for forever. Even with the best intentions, we unkowingly develop a notion of a "standard" and wind up otherizing, which doesn't sound like much, but like I said, amounts to hard consequences.

    And ok, you may be as exclusive or conservative as you want in your game, that's you as a person and your game is only for you, but the game itself has to allow for its costumers.
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