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Why are we doing QA for free?

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  • KaeChan2089KaeChan2089 Posts: 4,944 Member
    izecson wrote: »
    EA, you've done it again, lovey ... constantly lowering the bar!

    It's maxis not EA
    izecson wrote: »
    thecatsred wrote: »
    Doesn't EA have a QA team for this? Why all these patches and bug fixes AFTER the fact - delay the release so the game is polished instead of assuming the modders will fix the issues and the users will happily do all the QA testing for you.

    This has been the messiest and most disastrous pack release to date - what is EA doing?

    Other game studios are doing this as well not just EA.

    The only one i can think of is Bethesda, most games I bought from other devs and publishers are mostly bug free, people reported bug but I dont find any.

    Shhh! Don't give Bethesda any ideas! They might make their own life sim with that janky old engine they refuse to drop, and when you start up a new family, the Welcome Wagon shows up T-pose gliding to your door!! XD

    or worse, other sims standing on another sims's head because they spawn at the same time.

    Maxis is no more. So yes it is EA.
  • AquaGamer1212AquaGamer1212 Posts: 5,100 Member
    izecson wrote: »
    EA, you've done it again, lovey ... constantly lowering the bar!

    It's maxis not EA
    izecson wrote: »
    thecatsred wrote: »
    Doesn't EA have a QA team for this? Why all these patches and bug fixes AFTER the fact - delay the release so the game is polished instead of assuming the modders will fix the issues and the users will happily do all the QA testing for you.

    This has been the messiest and most disastrous pack release to date - what is EA doing?

    Other game studios are doing this as well not just EA.

    The only one i can think of is Bethesda, most games I bought from other devs and publishers are mostly bug free, people reported bug but I dont find any.

    Shhh! Don't give Bethesda any ideas! They might make their own life sim with that janky old engine they refuse to drop, and when you start up a new family, the Welcome Wagon shows up T-pose gliding to your door!! XD

    or worse, other sims standing on another sims's head because they spawn at the same time.

    Maxis is no more. So yes it is EA.

    Um what? EA doesn’t make games the studios do...
    ts4_blossom_meadows_world_icon_gif_fan_art_by_hazzaplumbob-d.gif

  • KaeChan2089KaeChan2089 Posts: 4,944 Member
    izecson wrote: »
    EA, you've done it again, lovey ... constantly lowering the bar!

    It's maxis not EA
    izecson wrote: »
    thecatsred wrote: »
    Doesn't EA have a QA team for this? Why all these patches and bug fixes AFTER the fact - delay the release so the game is polished instead of assuming the modders will fix the issues and the users will happily do all the QA testing for you.

    This has been the messiest and most disastrous pack release to date - what is EA doing?

    Other game studios are doing this as well not just EA.

    The only one i can think of is Bethesda, most games I bought from other devs and publishers are mostly bug free, people reported bug but I dont find any.

    Shhh! Don't give Bethesda any ideas! They might make their own life sim with that janky old engine they refuse to drop, and when you start up a new family, the Welcome Wagon shows up T-pose gliding to your door!! XD

    or worse, other sims standing on another sims's head because they spawn at the same time.

    Maxis is no more. So yes it is EA.

    Um what? EA doesn’t make games the studios do...

    But I thought maxis was gone and is now EAxis...??
  • DuvelinaDuvelina Posts: 2,016 Member
    edited June 11
    No, Maxis is a division of EA, but it's still Maxis. EA definitely develops games though, but this particular one is by the Maxis division.
  • drakharisdrakharis Posts: 1,195 Member
    thecatsred wrote: »
    Doesn't EA have a QA team for this? Why all these patches and bug fixes AFTER the fact - delay the release so the game is polished instead of assuming the modders will fix the issues and the users will happily do all the QA testing for you.

    This has been the messiest and most disastrous pack release to date - what is EA doing?

    I have been saying the exact same thing for years. I think Seasons to date was the worst. I couldn't play a vampire because I couldn't give my vampires strengths and weaknesses while playing vanilla. I couldn't get my aliens into their disguise at all. With too many problems making the game truly unplayable. I consider unplayable being game crashing without mods and CC after less than 2 minutes of gameplay. I consider a game unplayable when it freezes constantly.

    Unlike with Tabletop miniatures or card games like Magic and Vanguard. I playtest when I can.

    I would gladly playtest or beta test a videogame especially The Sims. I think the problem is that when I see the GameChangers on Youtube they just play the base game and a beta of the new pack that is coming out. Instead of EA randomly have them test out other packs as well. You might have the base game working perfectly with the beta version of the pack coming out. However, we all have different packs and different pack combinations. Some of us have all the packs up to date. it could be a conflict with "Get Famous" or Maraschino (I know that isn't its actual name but I am sure I have the first letter right) or any of the other established packs already out and the newest pack coming out. If they randomised what packs the GameChangers was playing with and the new pack that comes out they could better find the bugs and any issues prior to the official release. I have been fortunate and though there are quirks that annoy me that don't make the game unplayable for me. It's not at a Season's level of annoyance. I feel confident enough to start adding back in mods.

    From my observation of the Youtube videos I see online I don't think any of their GameChangers are over 25 (Except maybe Carl and James Turner who might be 26.) They need better demographics to test their games. People over 25 and even dare I say *shock* over 30 actually play games in the Sims Franchise. Some of us have been doing this since Sims 1. To better gauge your demographics start getting older simmers to play and maybe I don't know we can like help you better understand your demographics aren't all under 25 years old. I can safely presume that there are many simmers out there that fall into the 30 and older category, It's very ageist to do that and shows a level of prejudice against those who are over in the 25 years old demographics. Add people in from all demographics. Sorry for rudely calling out EA and it's nothing against the Gurus themselves.

    That is the first problem I see with how they test the game.

    Secondly, They only use base game and the pack that is coming out. By doing this you don't see any issues that may occur with other packs. Yes, I understand wanting to highlight what the new pack can do. Maybe do the beta testing in two stages. First where the base game and new pack are tested. Then a few months before release give your GameChangers other packs randomly to test alongside the new pack with every combination and each GameChanger gets a random number of which packs are added in. One would get all the packs and others might only get 1 extra pack to test. This way You can gauge where the issues are and you aren't busy fixing them after the fact. Have them do the 2nd wave of Beta testing at home so it doesn't interfere with offline activities. Have them detail any and all issues from their combination of packs used. Give them instructions to do play the game without CC and mods.

    It would take more time. Release dates might need to be pushed back but how can you see where the real issues are f only base game and he latest pack are working perfectly together. Fix them prior.

    Granted you aren't always going to find everything because everybody has their own playstyle but the most common ones will be found. You'll have fewer patches needed to fix issues after the release date.
    Playtesting - not just tabletop games and card games any more. Really that should have been playtested in Beta and not [img]just with accounting and marketing but actual players. https://i.imgur.com/t48COW6.jpg[/img]
  • CupidCupid Posts: 3,623 Member
    There are always people who blame a lack of QA testing after a release, but I have my doubts as to whether or not that's the issue. The purpose of QA testing is to make the team aware of bugs, however we have seen from experience that even when they're aware of bugs they often don't fix them, for whatever reason.

    No amount of QA testing is going to help if the problems discovered are rarely ever addressed.
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  • thecatsredthecatsred Posts: 327 Member
    edited June 11
    Cupid wrote: »
    There are always people who blame a lack of QA testing after a release, but I have my doubts as to whether or not that's the issue. The purpose of QA testing is to make the team aware of bugs, however we have seen from experience that even when they're aware of bugs they often don't fix them, for whatever reason.

    No amount of QA testing is going to help if the problems discovered are rarely ever addressed.

    Then I suppose the question is this: Why is EA/Maxis ignoring their QA team?


    With each new release, it feels like EA is saying to us: "We will not fix any known bugs unless enough of you complain about it affecting your game."
  • KaeChan2089KaeChan2089 Posts: 4,944 Member
    thecatsred wrote: »
    Cupid wrote: »
    There are always people who blame a lack of QA testing after a release, but I have my doubts as to whether or not that's the issue. The purpose of QA testing is to make the team aware of bugs, however we have seen from experience that even when they're aware of bugs they often don't fix them, for whatever reason.

    No amount of QA testing is going to help if the problems discovered are rarely ever addressed.

    Then I suppose the question is this: Why is EA/Maxis ignoring their QA team?


    With each new release, it feels like EA is saying to us: "We will not fix any known bugs unless enough of you complain about it affecting your game."

    Or better yet when they can let mods do all their dirty work? FOR free!
  • TiarellaTiarella Posts: 660 Member
    edited June 11
    thecatsred wrote: »
    Cupid wrote: »
    There are always people who blame a lack of QA testing after a release, but I have my doubts as to whether or not that's the issue. The purpose of QA testing is to make the team aware of bugs, however we have seen from experience that even when they're aware of bugs they often don't fix them, for whatever reason.

    No amount of QA testing is going to help if the problems discovered are rarely ever addressed.

    Then I suppose the question is this: Why is EA/Maxis ignoring their QA team?


    With each new release, it feels like EA is saying to us: "We will not fix any known bugs unless enough of you complain about it affecting your game."

    @thecatsred - nailed it! Cost-benefit calculation, heavily weighted towards protecting EA from spending money in order to maximize profits. That's what puts bonus $$$ in the pockets of top-level staff.

    I've got the relationship-culling bug, where everytime I rotate from one of my households to the next, I find close family relationships have been partially culled. Full relationship bar with spouse, for example, but they can't interact until they introduce themselves to each other. 'Hello, we've known each other since we were toddlers, have been married for sim-years, but we've never met before this instant.' That bug. I've had it for years now, real-life years, and sim-centuries. (Hey, I play with aging-off. My sims live lonnnnnnnnnnnnng lives. And forget each other all the time, dang it.) I've finally resorted to begging on the bug-forum that they just give us a cheat that allows the active sim to instantly know everything about the other sim. They're obviously not going to fix the bug, so for crying out loud, give us a cheat that lets us repair the damage.

    So. Yup! It's all about the profits. The only thing important about us is enticing us to give them money. Marketing matters more than QA.

    eta: left out 'bar' in 'relationship bar.'
  • annalephantannalephant Posts: 65 Member
    I would actually really love to be a remote game tester for maxis/sims franchise. I have very complex health conditions which basically mean i am so sick that i cant work a normal job, i have to have someone caring for me at all times (think babysitter) because i can get life threateningly ill in minutes, so i cant be left alone- but that only happens once every few months. Most of the time though im ok, and i spend hours most days playing sims because it is a sedate thing i can do without making myself unwell. Before this i was an intelligent person, studied environmental science at university and i have a very methodical, analytical and logistical brain. My family and my friend's joke that i have an excel spreadsheet for everything! I have even done a little work in the past testing a record company's website for them before going live, checking links, proof reading etc etc and logging all errors. It was extremely satisfying.

    The sims is the one thing in my life that helps keep me sane and the constant stream of small errors, like build errors which are picked up so quickly by the game changers, bug me because they could picked up so easily and sorted out if they were to pay someone like me minimum wage to work just a few hours a week (or more) or even for add hoc-blocks pre-releases, along with a number of other players, to play-test the game. We could install and uninstall packs as required (i have them all anyway) and pick up on some of these really obvious errors. Honestly i would love going through things methodically and checking them! I may live in the uk but they were able to get special test games out to the game changers during lockdown so i cant see why they couldn't so a similar watermarked log in feature for remote game testers across the globe. It just seems like such a low cost to the company and would greatly improve the quality of the product that is shipped out on launch day if half the bugs were caught pre-release.

    I really am serious... the game changers are not there to test the game. Anything they note that is wrong with the game isnt fixed pre-release, even this time with lockdown. They are basically free PR for the brand, just like beauty youtubers on PR lists for all the big brands are used as free advertising by make up companies. Game testing is something completely seperate. There are very few ways i could earn a living because of my health limitations, but i actually think i could do this job and actually be proficient at it too. I just wish Maxis were hiring...
  • Paigeisin5Paigeisin5 Posts: 1,633 Member
    We've been doing Quality Control since Sims1 was released. Some packs and base games have been good, and some have been really bad. Sims4 is no exception to what has always been true: Sometimes we have to stop waiting for Maxis to fix the bugs and turn to the mod creators for help. Even though some might find that truth to be unfair; it has it's advantages when using mods puts an end to game bugs and we can play our game the way it was meant to be played. Or played in a way that suits us because no two players want the same things. I'm not thrilled with the fact those two new planters in EL don't work properly, or with the fact my mature plants suddenly revert back to mounds of dirt for a day or two then I can't collect any harvestables for three days. I saw nothing from the gurus to suggest this pack would change gardening yet again. I'm a bit irked over the fact we weren't at least warned of the changes. And it ticks me off these new planters, two 'new' features in EL, are buggy as heck. But all in all, EL has the fewest problems of any pack I have bought for Sims4. I'm not saying that is true for everyone. In Island Living I had every known bug that was reported as well as some that no else seemed to have. I played it on a laptop and on a beast of a gaming rig, and still had every bug under the sun happening in the game. No doubt, some of you saw my angry rants last year. I was beyond livid, and ready to quit Sims4 forever. Now I'm glad I didn't give up and kept fighting for my game. No pack is ever perfect but we do have the right to expect better after spending our money on something that doesn't always match the advertised version.
  • RouensimsRouensims Posts: 3,224 Member
    edited June 12
    Tiarella wrote: »
    I've got the relationship-culling bug, where everytime I rotate from one of my households to the next, I find close family relationships have been partially culled. Full relationship bar with spouse, for example, but they can't interact until they introduce themselves to each other. 'Hello, we've known each other since we were toddlers, have been married for sim-years, but we've never met before this instant.' That bug. I've had it for years now, real-life years, and sim-centuries. (Hey, I play with aging-off. My sims live lonnnnnnnnnnnnng lives. And forget each other all the time, dang it.) I've finally resorted to begging on the bug-forum that they just give us a cheat that allows the active sim to instantly know everything about the other sim. They're obviously not going to fix the bug, so for crying out loud, give us a cheat that lets us repair the damage.

    FYI there is a mod that helps with relationship culling. https://deichschafblog.de/bienchen/sonstige-mods-misc-mods/ and look for lessrelationshipculling. It's one of the few mods I find essential.

    Ooh Be Gah!! Whipna Choba-Dog? Whipna Choba-Dog!! :smiley:
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