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Once the base game is fixed, TS4's greatness will be astounding
Louise_G0325
Posts: 1,040 Member
TS4's base game is not completed, and everyone knows that. I will delve into why the base game is lacking, how it can be fixed and what the implications of a fixed base game will have on TS4 as a whole.
Sims are shallow bc of oversimplified personalities. Emotions reign supreme in determining sims' actions and many personality traits are simply there to increase the prevalence of certain emotions. In TS3, traits were broken up into several small things. Sims could be lazy hydrophobic vegetarian slobs with a great sense of humour but a secret longing for the romance that you only find in novels. But in TS4, the traits are generalized. A romantic sim simply likes romance. There is no difference between a hopeless romantic or a player - the sim is romantic, period. The problems here are multiple. Just bc you like art, doesn't mean you like every form of artistic expression. Just bc you are a goofball, doesn't mean you are actually funny or have a good sense of humour - it simply means you like acting silly. Many people are outgoing, but not all of them enjoy partying and dancing. If I made a sim outgoing with the intention of implying that they like dancing, you wouldn't have known that just by looking at their traits, and the game wouldn't be able to make the sim act that way autonomously without making all outgoing sims act that way, even though there are many forms of being outgoing and I didn't intend for my charismatic businessman to be a frequent at raves. Traits should be highly specific to make sims feel like individuals rather than generalized personas. Just by reading the list of traits from my TS3 example, you can already imagine a vivid image of the sim, but TS4 traits do not achieve this. We need more trait slots, and a massive update to the traits in the game. Break the traits up into highly specific traits, and give us more of them. I would excuse some save files being broken if it meant that my future sims could become individuals with substance. I am tired of making the game interesting for myself by creating an elaborate inner narrative. If I wanted to play with dolls that have absolutely no reactions or minds of their own, I would pick up a Barbie.
I know that this would be a potentially game-breaking update, but once again I am willing to lose my save files if it means that the game is fixed. Rework the emotions system. I can't remember the simmer's name, but she suggested that a mood bar is included next to the emotional state of the sim. Buffs fill up or decrease the mood bar, and for a sim to feel a certain emotion, they need to cross a threshold of mood points for that emotion. TS3's mood bar told me everything I needed to know about my sims' emotional states. They could be sad but in a relatively good mood, or they could simply be content. Not neutral, not happy. Just content. TS4 emotions are all-or-nothing. This once again makes them caricatures instead of balanced, relatable beings, and makes it very easy for emotions to override personalities. While sims' actions should still be influenced by their emotional state, it would be more believable if this only happened when sims are past the threshold of that emotion. If a loved one just died, a sim should be controlled by their sadness, but if they watched a sad movie, that shouldn't have the same impact. Although the death buff lasts longer than the movie buff, the extent of the sim's sadness and the power of the emotion over their actions are almost the same.
Neutral -> Content -> Happy -> Very happy
Neutral -> Annoyed -> Angry -> Very angry
Neutral -> Dismayed -> Sad -> Very sad
Even just adding one intermediate step for emotional states would already improve them greatly. A mood bar would also allow for emotions to work together to affect their overall mood, not just their overall emotion. Being happy about eating a favourite meal but unhappy about losing a game, would put a sim's mood in the neutral. Instead of one emotional occurrence always overpowering the others, or for the sim to cycle through several emotions like a maniac, they could finally have a collective impact. Instead of only positive emotions amplifying other positive emotions to overrule the slightest bad, negative emotions would also amplify other negative emotions. They would be more than something fleeting that should be avoided and overcome. You can't appreciate the good fully without tasting the bad, and negative emotions are arguably much more part of life than the good ones. Positive emotions are what makes the negative worthwhile, but cheapening the positive like in TS4 removes any meaningfulness from overcoming the bad. There is no bad. Everyone is happy all the time.
I don't think it is necessary to create special walks, facial expressions etc for sims in every emotional "step." Simply seeing a sim's mood bar would be enough information. The outward difference between content and annoyed is so subtle in real people that we often don't even notice it in each other. It is only when the emotional threshold is passed that people show these emotions clearly.
Young adults are the only life stages that matter in this game - other life stages are boring and not fleshed out at all. The exception is TS4 toddlers, which imo are the best version of the franchise. More on that later. The focus of TS franchise has always relied quite heavily on simmers wanting to play with many generations of sims instead of just one. The game is more replayable this way - there are only so many times you can start a new save with a new character before you have explored every activity in the game. The world is mostly the same each time bc it starts out a certain way and has little time to evolve over the course of your one-sim story. This gets boring and repetitive. However, playing with many generations is different every time. Even though you are playing with the same activities, the way that the different sims (that you did not have full control over since they have been born imperfect, not sculpted into the same sim we often recreate) interact differently with these activities and events can be surprising each time. The world changes as the original townies get children, their children have children, they die and leave a legacy behind. You start to see how the world is influenced by their relationships and activities. You see that the world isn't static, bc you haven't given it a chance to change. This is exciting and near infinitely replayable, if other life stages are exciting enough for you to keep on playing with them. I haven't played generation two through to adulthood or have a sim die of old age even once in TS4, and I've had it since launch. Children are boring, teens are boring. Adults are YA with some wrinkles, and elders are YA with wrinkles that die from exercise. One feels compelled to age sim children up as quickly as possible to YA, since that's where the meat of TS4 is, but then you feel less attached to the children bc you didn't see them grow up. Instead of sims popping out of the bassinet as a child, they pop out of the womb as an incomplete YA. And once they age up to adult, there is no sense of progression or hope. Sims have passed the interesting stage of their lives, YA, thus playing further doesn't have much of a point. This makes sims static. The sims are static, the world is static with no story progression. The game is boring.
There are no consequences for sims' actions - being a criminal actually rewards you with valuable "stolen" career objects with no risk of jail (I actually once had a sim die in jail after being arrested for 24 hours, which annoyed me but was actually fun bc of the challenge and risks), getting a bad grade in school does nothing to a sim's future (with the addition of UL it does matter more, but what about simmers who only have the base game?), no detention, little consequence to slacking off at work etc. I loved that things could go wrong at any moment in TS3. It made things more exciting, taking risks were actually taking risks, and feeling uncertain about my sims' future made me actually care about what would happen to them. To quote the movie Troy: "The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal. Because any moment might be our last. Everything's more beautiful because we're doomed." So yeah, our sims being able to die, suffer and live with the consequences of their actions, makes us more thoughtful of game decisions, makes us emphasize with them for their flaws and suffering, and makes us attached to a virtual friend that is inevitably doomed to die. Any moment could be their last, so we play with them more vigorously and with more determination to give them the best (or worst) life before it's the next generation's turn. Expanding on the metaphor of us being immortal gods that rule over our sims, seeing how the ripples that we cause in sims' lives affect other sims, either instantly or long afterwards, also makes the world more alive and fragile in the most satisfying and surprising ways.
This includes seeing the consequences of sims having good or bad relationships with others. Drama is fun. Sims should have a chemistry system that determines how well they get along in general (based on traits, reputation, aspirations etc) and a romantic turn-on/off system that makes it easy for some sims to fall for each other and a lifelong struggle for others to get sims to requite their one-sided obsession. Sims should be able to spread gossip and rumours that affect their work, school and relationships, and in return other sims should be able to retaliate with the same tactics. One of the most satisfying elements of the Sims that keeps me glued to my computer, is building and destroying meaningful relationships. If I wanted to build and craft all day, I'd play Minecraft. What keeps me from binging Minecraft all day, though, is the feeling of loneliness that my character is the only being that can create emotional bonds. TS4 has an amazing socialization system, but the relationship system still has to be improved greatly.
Going back to the toddlers update, I truly believe that these are the best toddlers ever. They are detailed, adorable and hellish, difficult to care for but very rewarding. Toddlers encompass much of what TS4 needs, and were executed in a very well-balanced way. Terrain tools, pools, ghosts. All of these were not included at launch, but eventually added through BG updates, and I dare say that each of these updates made the features better than the previous iterations. I find terrain tools much easier and more powerful than in TS3, pools are more customizable with water colours and ghosts can possess objects. There are still a lot that can be improved, especially adding pond tools to terrain tools, but I wouldn't be surprised if ponds are once again better in TS4 than in TS3 etc. The devs are taking very long to add these things, and I don't approve of them not being in the base game since launch, but it is undeniable that they are really good.
My take from this is that, if/when we eventually get all of these things, many of them would be very detailed and good. Especially now that EA has some competition with Paralives, they might really try to give us a better game. The recent survey included many of the topics discussed in this post, and I am hopeful that they will be added to the base game before the end of TS4's run.
Now, let's suppose all of these problems are fixed. What are we left with? A seriously spectacularly detailed game. Ignore the base game problems for a second and think about how much content we have in TS4. Think of how much more detailed and involved many features are. The thing that makes us bored in TS4 is the lack of depth in the sims themselves, but the rest of the game is packed with activities, detailed occults, beautiful worlds that we can easily travel between and several involved play styles. Most rabbit holes are now venues that we can physically visit and witness, personalizing the experience to our hearts' content. Instead of sims disappearing into the bistro on a date, I can control every aspect of the date, down to building the restaurant myself. Instead of playing a scandalous office affair by choosing "socialize with coworkers" and squeezing in dates in the little off-time that my doctor has, I can live the double life right at the location and return to an obliviously happy spouse. Instead of my TS3 vampire being simply sparkly and immortal, my TS4 vampires can literally dominate the world with their powers.
Once story progression arrives, imagine how cool it would be to see the premades' lives unfurl as a consequence to the jobs they were assigned (bar tenders, retail employees, waiters etc). Imagine having a meal at a fancy establishment and then the spouse of your boyfriend throws a drink at your face for breaking up their marriage as their child cries in the background (yes, this happened to me in TS3). With personality fixed, imagine how truly despicable an evil sim can be as he climbs to the top of the political ladder, only to pollute the world, force sims to wear bags over their heads or get thrown into his dungeon and make sims go insane as he steals their prized possessions. Or, how wholesome it would be for a loving grandma sim to teach her well-mannered grandson to knit as grandpa teaches his retail-minded granddaughter how to bake the secret family recipe cookies.
Once the base is fixed, I think we will be blown away by how great TS4 can be. The newest update to bills, inventory and firemen seems to me like a big step in the right direction, and I hope that the devs will continue marching on to the best version of the game that they can create.
Sims are shallow bc of oversimplified personalities. Emotions reign supreme in determining sims' actions and many personality traits are simply there to increase the prevalence of certain emotions. In TS3, traits were broken up into several small things. Sims could be lazy hydrophobic vegetarian slobs with a great sense of humour but a secret longing for the romance that you only find in novels. But in TS4, the traits are generalized. A romantic sim simply likes romance. There is no difference between a hopeless romantic or a player - the sim is romantic, period. The problems here are multiple. Just bc you like art, doesn't mean you like every form of artistic expression. Just bc you are a goofball, doesn't mean you are actually funny or have a good sense of humour - it simply means you like acting silly. Many people are outgoing, but not all of them enjoy partying and dancing. If I made a sim outgoing with the intention of implying that they like dancing, you wouldn't have known that just by looking at their traits, and the game wouldn't be able to make the sim act that way autonomously without making all outgoing sims act that way, even though there are many forms of being outgoing and I didn't intend for my charismatic businessman to be a frequent at raves. Traits should be highly specific to make sims feel like individuals rather than generalized personas. Just by reading the list of traits from my TS3 example, you can already imagine a vivid image of the sim, but TS4 traits do not achieve this. We need more trait slots, and a massive update to the traits in the game. Break the traits up into highly specific traits, and give us more of them. I would excuse some save files being broken if it meant that my future sims could become individuals with substance. I am tired of making the game interesting for myself by creating an elaborate inner narrative. If I wanted to play with dolls that have absolutely no reactions or minds of their own, I would pick up a Barbie.
I know that this would be a potentially game-breaking update, but once again I am willing to lose my save files if it means that the game is fixed. Rework the emotions system. I can't remember the simmer's name, but she suggested that a mood bar is included next to the emotional state of the sim. Buffs fill up or decrease the mood bar, and for a sim to feel a certain emotion, they need to cross a threshold of mood points for that emotion. TS3's mood bar told me everything I needed to know about my sims' emotional states. They could be sad but in a relatively good mood, or they could simply be content. Not neutral, not happy. Just content. TS4 emotions are all-or-nothing. This once again makes them caricatures instead of balanced, relatable beings, and makes it very easy for emotions to override personalities. While sims' actions should still be influenced by their emotional state, it would be more believable if this only happened when sims are past the threshold of that emotion. If a loved one just died, a sim should be controlled by their sadness, but if they watched a sad movie, that shouldn't have the same impact. Although the death buff lasts longer than the movie buff, the extent of the sim's sadness and the power of the emotion over their actions are almost the same.
Neutral -> Content -> Happy -> Very happy
Neutral -> Annoyed -> Angry -> Very angry
Neutral -> Dismayed -> Sad -> Very sad
Even just adding one intermediate step for emotional states would already improve them greatly. A mood bar would also allow for emotions to work together to affect their overall mood, not just their overall emotion. Being happy about eating a favourite meal but unhappy about losing a game, would put a sim's mood in the neutral. Instead of one emotional occurrence always overpowering the others, or for the sim to cycle through several emotions like a maniac, they could finally have a collective impact. Instead of only positive emotions amplifying other positive emotions to overrule the slightest bad, negative emotions would also amplify other negative emotions. They would be more than something fleeting that should be avoided and overcome. You can't appreciate the good fully without tasting the bad, and negative emotions are arguably much more part of life than the good ones. Positive emotions are what makes the negative worthwhile, but cheapening the positive like in TS4 removes any meaningfulness from overcoming the bad. There is no bad. Everyone is happy all the time.
I don't think it is necessary to create special walks, facial expressions etc for sims in every emotional "step." Simply seeing a sim's mood bar would be enough information. The outward difference between content and annoyed is so subtle in real people that we often don't even notice it in each other. It is only when the emotional threshold is passed that people show these emotions clearly.
Young adults are the only life stages that matter in this game - other life stages are boring and not fleshed out at all. The exception is TS4 toddlers, which imo are the best version of the franchise. More on that later. The focus of TS franchise has always relied quite heavily on simmers wanting to play with many generations of sims instead of just one. The game is more replayable this way - there are only so many times you can start a new save with a new character before you have explored every activity in the game. The world is mostly the same each time bc it starts out a certain way and has little time to evolve over the course of your one-sim story. This gets boring and repetitive. However, playing with many generations is different every time. Even though you are playing with the same activities, the way that the different sims (that you did not have full control over since they have been born imperfect, not sculpted into the same sim we often recreate) interact differently with these activities and events can be surprising each time. The world changes as the original townies get children, their children have children, they die and leave a legacy behind. You start to see how the world is influenced by their relationships and activities. You see that the world isn't static, bc you haven't given it a chance to change. This is exciting and near infinitely replayable, if other life stages are exciting enough for you to keep on playing with them. I haven't played generation two through to adulthood or have a sim die of old age even once in TS4, and I've had it since launch. Children are boring, teens are boring. Adults are YA with some wrinkles, and elders are YA with wrinkles that die from exercise. One feels compelled to age sim children up as quickly as possible to YA, since that's where the meat of TS4 is, but then you feel less attached to the children bc you didn't see them grow up. Instead of sims popping out of the bassinet as a child, they pop out of the womb as an incomplete YA. And once they age up to adult, there is no sense of progression or hope. Sims have passed the interesting stage of their lives, YA, thus playing further doesn't have much of a point. This makes sims static. The sims are static, the world is static with no story progression. The game is boring.
There are no consequences for sims' actions - being a criminal actually rewards you with valuable "stolen" career objects with no risk of jail (I actually once had a sim die in jail after being arrested for 24 hours, which annoyed me but was actually fun bc of the challenge and risks), getting a bad grade in school does nothing to a sim's future (with the addition of UL it does matter more, but what about simmers who only have the base game?), no detention, little consequence to slacking off at work etc. I loved that things could go wrong at any moment in TS3. It made things more exciting, taking risks were actually taking risks, and feeling uncertain about my sims' future made me actually care about what would happen to them. To quote the movie Troy: "The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal. Because any moment might be our last. Everything's more beautiful because we're doomed." So yeah, our sims being able to die, suffer and live with the consequences of their actions, makes us more thoughtful of game decisions, makes us emphasize with them for their flaws and suffering, and makes us attached to a virtual friend that is inevitably doomed to die. Any moment could be their last, so we play with them more vigorously and with more determination to give them the best (or worst) life before it's the next generation's turn. Expanding on the metaphor of us being immortal gods that rule over our sims, seeing how the ripples that we cause in sims' lives affect other sims, either instantly or long afterwards, also makes the world more alive and fragile in the most satisfying and surprising ways.
This includes seeing the consequences of sims having good or bad relationships with others. Drama is fun. Sims should have a chemistry system that determines how well they get along in general (based on traits, reputation, aspirations etc) and a romantic turn-on/off system that makes it easy for some sims to fall for each other and a lifelong struggle for others to get sims to requite their one-sided obsession. Sims should be able to spread gossip and rumours that affect their work, school and relationships, and in return other sims should be able to retaliate with the same tactics. One of the most satisfying elements of the Sims that keeps me glued to my computer, is building and destroying meaningful relationships. If I wanted to build and craft all day, I'd play Minecraft. What keeps me from binging Minecraft all day, though, is the feeling of loneliness that my character is the only being that can create emotional bonds. TS4 has an amazing socialization system, but the relationship system still has to be improved greatly.
Going back to the toddlers update, I truly believe that these are the best toddlers ever. They are detailed, adorable and hellish, difficult to care for but very rewarding. Toddlers encompass much of what TS4 needs, and were executed in a very well-balanced way. Terrain tools, pools, ghosts. All of these were not included at launch, but eventually added through BG updates, and I dare say that each of these updates made the features better than the previous iterations. I find terrain tools much easier and more powerful than in TS3, pools are more customizable with water colours and ghosts can possess objects. There are still a lot that can be improved, especially adding pond tools to terrain tools, but I wouldn't be surprised if ponds are once again better in TS4 than in TS3 etc. The devs are taking very long to add these things, and I don't approve of them not being in the base game since launch, but it is undeniable that they are really good.
My take from this is that, if/when we eventually get all of these things, many of them would be very detailed and good. Especially now that EA has some competition with Paralives, they might really try to give us a better game. The recent survey included many of the topics discussed in this post, and I am hopeful that they will be added to the base game before the end of TS4's run.
Now, let's suppose all of these problems are fixed. What are we left with? A seriously spectacularly detailed game. Ignore the base game problems for a second and think about how much content we have in TS4. Think of how much more detailed and involved many features are. The thing that makes us bored in TS4 is the lack of depth in the sims themselves, but the rest of the game is packed with activities, detailed occults, beautiful worlds that we can easily travel between and several involved play styles. Most rabbit holes are now venues that we can physically visit and witness, personalizing the experience to our hearts' content. Instead of sims disappearing into the bistro on a date, I can control every aspect of the date, down to building the restaurant myself. Instead of playing a scandalous office affair by choosing "socialize with coworkers" and squeezing in dates in the little off-time that my doctor has, I can live the double life right at the location and return to an obliviously happy spouse. Instead of my TS3 vampire being simply sparkly and immortal, my TS4 vampires can literally dominate the world with their powers.
Once story progression arrives, imagine how cool it would be to see the premades' lives unfurl as a consequence to the jobs they were assigned (bar tenders, retail employees, waiters etc). Imagine having a meal at a fancy establishment and then the spouse of your boyfriend throws a drink at your face for breaking up their marriage as their child cries in the background (yes, this happened to me in TS3). With personality fixed, imagine how truly despicable an evil sim can be as he climbs to the top of the political ladder, only to pollute the world, force sims to wear bags over their heads or get thrown into his dungeon and make sims go insane as he steals their prized possessions. Or, how wholesome it would be for a loving grandma sim to teach her well-mannered grandson to knit as grandpa teaches his retail-minded granddaughter how to bake the secret family recipe cookies.
Once the base is fixed, I think we will be blown away by how great TS4 can be. The newest update to bills, inventory and firemen seems to me like a big step in the right direction, and I hope that the devs will continue marching on to the best version of the game that they can create.
Post edited by Louise_G0325 on
13
Comments
It's too late, the Sims 4 is and always will be as it is.
^^^ This! Oh and that thing >>> 🤑🐄
There is just one problem. The sims being shallow, empty shells is intentional and while myself and many, many others criticise that the sad fact is after SIX years (not to mention development time before that) the game will not change. The devs don’t view it as broken.
Any changes we get are surface level.
I agree
I agree with CL being shallow for me and I have yet to play any of IL assets as I do own that pack so I can't say much about that pack. As seen some packs add more than the other like GT and EL which I was skeptical at first even though there are some imbalances in the pack.