I never had much of a problem with rabbit holes either. It's better to me than having my sims simply disappearing. They instead travel to a location and walk into a building for work, school, or some form of entertainment like a sporting event, concert, or movie and come out when they're done. It adds to immersion for me.
Besides the fact that one of the rabbit hole buildings affected job performance and the line of people trying to get in could get backed up the only other issue I had was that we couldn't use something like CASt on the buildings.
It's better to me than having my sims simply disappearing. They instead travel to a location and walk into a building for work, school, or some form of entertainment like a sporting event, concert, or movie and come out when they're done. It adds to immersion for me.
They still disappear though, instead of disappearing at the edge of your lot, they disappear into a building halfway across the map. Sims could busk in the park for money, why not do the same in a theater and call it a concert? A movie, ballet recital, comedy gig, or debate could also take place in the theater, and there could be a schedule of different events that your sim could check out and attend depending on their interests. Or the rollerskating/ice skating events or even darts and pool could be turned into an annual championship with spectators. Spectators don't have to be hundreds and thousands as in real life, they could be limited to a number of 10-30 seats similar to the average number of sims that visit a venue.
For school, kids could do things like gardening, frog collection, insect collection, crystal collection, robotics, etc, for science subjects, any musical instruments or drawing, photography, for arts, cooking, cleaning, repairing for home economics, debate and read books/write short stories for literature, sales for economics/maths, take up any sports or dancing for PE. The classes could work like clubs in TS4, and 8 sim kids would get together to perform those activities together, and they could have a different class every day. Children can achieve upto level 3/10 in their chosen subjects, and need to level up at least once to graduate, teens can achieve upto level 5/10. In university they would achieve upto level 7/10 with the possibility to take extra classes to get honours and level to 8/10. They can later get jobs depending on their skill levels and increase their skills further on the job.
With work, all objects and lots could have work related interactions associated with them. If you put a bar on a lot, you would get the option to create a barista job, set work hours, uniform and qualifications, then any sim could apply for that job or you could assign a sim yourself. If you create a theater then you would get the option to create various jobs necessary for the lot and hire performers. I think such a system would be nicer and get the player directly involved and not break the immersion.
I don't care if Rabbit holes are needed for performance reasons, I am glad they exist for menial things.
Seriously, like that poll about being able to visit the hospital that's still going, or the people demanding walk in classes in University... What?
Watching my Sims read for 1.5 hours in a classroom is in no way funnier than watching them read for 1.5 hours at home. And do people really want to watch their Sim sit still for three hours listening to an opera in Simlish???
Also, what are you guys talking about restaurants? NO restaurants in Sims 4 are rabbit holes. They have never been rabbit holes. So why bring them up claiming they are rabbit holes?
TS3 has real reasons for career rabbit holes like the size of worlds for one reason and performance sake. However, TS4 shouldn't be able to use that excuse at all, it's a closed world system. So, any deep sea diving should never have been a 'rabbit hole' nor class at a college, nor walking off the lot to go to work. Nor should any of those volunteer opportunites rabbit holes been a thing in TS4. Etc. Etc.
TS4 boast of being the best game ever, not hardly when it uses 'performance' as the reason Sims are culled in a closed world system where it doesn't even have to calculate memories, and or relationships or keep up with everyone in the world and what they were doing and where they have been. It's hogwash. It claims performance is the reason for a tiny five lot district....or even less, two lots....TS2 can make the excuse for offworld careers and or places like the BV boat tours etc. because it has to calulate memories and relationships and keep track of every conversation in the game and apply a reaction etc. later like insults and or real happening like told in gossip etc. And TS3 has a real excuse for any rabbit holes because it also keeps up with every Sim in game, however, TS4 has no such excuse. It's why some of us can't suspend our disbelief long enough to believe it's even necessary.
Not singling you out by quoting just pointing out why TS2 and TS3 have reasons for some rabbit holes stuff and TS4 has no excuses in logic. It's ok if some don't like open classes in a college pack but the thing about TS3 is you could attend it with your Sim or not, and was more to do than just watch them skill. Much like the doctor career in TS4 classes were a change in TS3 which I did like. (And I don't give TS3 credit very often).
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
It's better to me than having my sims simply disappearing. They instead travel to a location and walk into a building for work, school, or some form of entertainment like a sporting event, concert, or movie and come out when they're done. It adds to immersion for me.
They still disappear though, instead of disappearing at the edge of your lot, they disappear into a building halfway across the map.
That's creates better immersion though than just disappearing from your home lot. I actually love when they travel to their work or school and be able to see where and what the career building or school looks like.
Sims could busk in the park for money, why not do the same in a theater and call it a concert? A movie, ballet recital, comedy gig, or debate could also take place in the theater, and there could be a schedule of different events that your sim could check out and attend depending on their interests. Or the rollerskating/ice skating events or even darts and pool could be turned into an annual championship with spectators. Spectators don't have to be hundreds and thousands as in real life, they could be limited to a number of 10-30 seats similar to the average number of sims that visit a venue.
TS3 has the Showtime EP that pretty much allows buskers to have scheduled performances at certain venues. You can also create your own lots with the same functionality if you wish.
There's also a cinema venue which is an active version of the theater.
The events like rollerskating or darts we don't have, but sims who play those do have hidden skill levels. Maybe such events can be moddable. I wish I knew how to program....
For school, kids could do things like gardening, frog collection, insect collection, crystal collection, robotics, etc, for science subjects, any musical instruments or drawing, photography, for arts, cooking, cleaning, repairing for home economics, debate and read books/write short stories for literature, sales for economics/maths, take up any sports or dancing for PE. The classes could work like clubs in TS4, and 8 sim kids would get together to perform those activities together, and they could have a different class every day. Children can achieve upto level 3/10 in their chosen subjects, and need to level up at least once to graduate, teens can achieve upto level 5/10. In university they would achieve upto level 7/10 with the possibility to take extra classes to get honours and level to 8/10. They can later get jobs depending on their skill levels and increase their skills further on the job.
With work, all objects and lots could have work related interactions associated with them. If you put a bar on a lot, you would get the option to create a barista job, set work hours, uniform and qualifications, then any sim could apply for that job or you could assign a sim yourself. If you create a theater then you would get the option to create various jobs necessary for the lot and hire performers. I think such a system would be nicer and get the player directly involved and not break the immersion.
Zerbu's Ultimate Careers mod is used for active schools and careers in TS3. It pretty great because you can have both versions in the world (and set up your lots and activities any way you want). At the same time, if you ever want a break from having to manually manage your sim to go to work or school, you can just send them to the rabbithole.
I would like both rabbitholes and active versions of them for everything in TS5. They can just take a look at Zerbu's Ultimate Careers mod and TS2's Open For Business EP (without the tedious employee management and training or make them optional). The one of the many good things I want to point out about Zerbu's Ultimate Careers mod is that you set the active mode of each career individually. This is good if you're worried about the performance of the computer. How I use it, I only make ONE active career per story. If I'm playing rotationally through a town which I'm building up, and playing different households, I don't bother using it and just play the rabbitholes. All my retail shops and restaurants, any lot where my active sims aren't working though are all active.
If I'm playing a family, I find playing more than one active career or school is overwhelming. I had a husband and wife, which both had active careers - husband is a fireman and wife is a research doctor. They had three kids. It was very hectic having the husband putting out fires and rescuing people all the time and having the wife do all this research and doing vaccinations and free clinic all the time. Can you imagine if I made the school active for all the three children? It was bad enough that they had after school activities, school trips, having to be trained in various things growing up, receiving lifetime rewards opportunities, throwing parties when their parents are out of town, having mood swings, getting busted after curfew, getting punished....
So yeah, rabbitholes are definitely needed. But it would be great if in TS5, there are active versions that don't need to be modded in for ALL the rabbitholes (careers, schools, universities, restaurants, clubs, retail shops, hotels/resorts, sports, etc.) so that we can implement them whenever and wherever we choose.
Also, bring back scuba diving active career and the ability to create our own diving lots in TS5! I can't believe that wasn't included in Island Living! Grrr!
Besides the fact that one of the rabbit hole buildings affected job performance and the line of people trying to get in could get backed up the only other issue I had was that we couldn't use something like CASt on the buildings.
I agree with your post! I use a mod that changes the time between each person entering the building from something like 10 seconds down to 2 seconds apart so that the traffic through the doorway is much faster.
Also agree about making the rabbitholes CAStable without having to use mods! What were they afraid of? That we'd cast them in crazy patterns and colors, worse than anything one would find in the Katy Perry stuff pack? Lol! You KNOW we would!
Anyway, there are CAStable versions of the rabbitholes at Mod the Sims for TS3 if you need them.
I enjoy rabbit holes but I usually play with more than one Sim whether it’s adult siblings, besties, or a family. So when I want one of the Sims to be a doctor and earn promotions for instance, non-rabbit holes are annoying because I to have to only follow one around and ignore the others. I can see how people who play single Sims would enjoy non-rabbit holes more than I do, though.
I think that, moving forward, types of rabbit holes should be an option. I don't think they should choose one way or the other because gameplay should be flexible for the players. There are so many different play styles that they should find ways to accommodate as many as possible. This is a multi-billion dollar franchise and triple A game company. At this point, there shouldn't be so many sacrifices.
I think that the base game should be designed to have smaller open areas (but larger than Sims 4's neighborhoods!) but still be built to accommodate rotational play with ease. So maybe if you have a household marked "played", that house loads differently. If there's Story Progression, it should be fully optional and only affect townies and NPCs so rotational players don't have to worry about their other households getting tampered with. This would allow progression for unplayed Sims to keep the worlds populated with all ages. So the "played" and "unplayed" and "favorites" tags should definitely carry over from Sims 4 to allow better control over the game. If all of this was designed properly, we could have the option from the getgo to place rabbit hole buildings in an open district, and our Sims, instead of disappearing off the lot, would go to the building (mainly for work, school, etc). But if we didn't place them, our Sims would disappear from the lot as normal. This would allow the choices of the individual player to build the world as they like, to control their Sims as they like, and still accommodate various play styles. There would probably still have to be loading screens between districts, but if those districts were decently sized, this wouldn't be as much of a bother.
As the game continued to be developed, we could get even more choices, similar to what we have in Sims 4 where you can choose to work from home, go to your playable job, go to a rabbit hole building, or rabbit hole off the lot. Venues could come with a rabbit hole option for those who want it, but I strongly believe that all commercial lots should be playable, or have the option to be, so people can pick and choose what they want to play out, what they want to place down, or what they want to be a rabbit hole. There shouldn't be any sacrifices in gameplay. But including optional rabbit holes would also give more flexibility for those who aren't playing on powerful systems. So someone could just turn a few of their community lots into rabbit hole buildings to save on performance, while a player with an updated system could have more playable venues.
We're talking about the fifth iteration of a top series that's going over 20 years old. It's time all players get the game we deserve. Even if it takes longer to develop. EA needs to put proper funding back into this series. The players shouldn't be fighting over the scraps like we are. And if there truly is sufficient competition coming, they're going to need to step it up now, not later.
Rabbit holes are still better than the simply disappearing they do now haha. I think it is mostly from City Living, sims get invited to see a theater play by friend, you accept to go, then your sim just disappears and comes back with small review. I really don't see the point of this. I think it would have been better if they would at least travel to a rabbit hole.
And I do think a rabbit hole would be the best option in these types of cases. If they had invest in creating a venue and everything for every place a sim goes to, there would be much less of other gameplay, probably.
Rabbit holes are still better than the simply disappearing they do now haha. I think it is mostly from City Living, sims get invited to see a theater play by friend, you accept to go, then your sim just disappears and comes back with small review. I really don't see the point of this. I think it would have been better if they would at least travel to a rabbit hole.
And I do think a rabbit hole would be the best option in these types of cases. If they had invest in creating a venue and everything for every place a sim goes to, there would be much less of other gameplay, probably.
That what's so funny about this rabbit hole issue to me.
People just get annoyed because there are buildings that they can't go inside.
But in TS4 you still have rabbit holes, they just don't have a physical location.
In TS3 it makes sense that they have a physical location because it would be odd to have this open world and still have your sim evaporate to some unknown location.
Maybe if they do another open world game we could have TS3 rabbit holes, but with an option to load the lot the for more in depth game play.
Rabbit holes are still better than the simply disappearing they do now haha. I think it is mostly from City Living, sims get invited to see a theater play by friend, you accept to go, then your sim just disappears and comes back with small review. I really don't see the point of this. I think it would have been better if they would at least travel to a rabbit hole.
And I do think a rabbit hole would be the best option in these types of cases. If they had invest in creating a venue and everything for every place a sim goes to, there would be much less of other gameplay, probably.
That what's so funny about this rabbit hole issue to me.
People just get annoyed because there are buildings that they can't go inside.
But in TS4 you still have rabbit holes, they just don't have a physical location.
In TS3 it makes sense that they have a physical location because it would be odd to have this open world and still have your sim evaporate to some unknown location.
Maybe if they do another open world game we could have TS3 rabbit holes, but with an option to load the lot the for more in depth game play.
On one hand, when there's an actual building rabbit hole like in TS3, you have to wait for the sim to go all the way to wherever the rabbit hole is, sometimes the other side of the neighbourhood, wait for the whatever action is happening there to finish and then you need to return back to your home lot. On the other hand you have TS4 where the rabbit hole actions like the theater and concert and even jogging happen so fast you don't even have time to notice and get annoyed about it. Personally, I feel like the TS4 rabbitholes are less disruptive and less hassle for nothing but a few points or buffs or whatever. They also don't take up large spaces in the neighbourhood.
Rabbit holes are still better than the simply disappearing they do now haha. I think it is mostly from City Living, sims get invited to see a theater play by friend, you accept to go, then your sim just disappears and comes back with small review. I really don't see the point of this. I think it would have been better if they would at least travel to a rabbit hole.
And I do think a rabbit hole would be the best option in these types of cases. If they had invest in creating a venue and everything for every place a sim goes to, there would be much less of other gameplay, probably.
That what's so funny about this rabbit hole issue to me.
People just get annoyed because there are buildings that they can't go inside.
But in TS4 you still have rabbit holes, they just don't have a physical location.
In TS3 it makes sense that they have a physical location because it would be odd to have this open world and still have your sim evaporate to some unknown location.
Maybe if they do another open world game we could have TS3 rabbit holes, but with an option to load the lot the for more in depth game play.
On one hand, when there's an actual building rabbit hole like in TS3, you have to wait for the sim to go all the way to wherever the rabbit hole is, sometimes the other side of the neighbourhood, wait for the whatever action is happening there to finish and then you need to return back to your home lot. On the other hand you have TS4 where the rabbit hole actions like the theater and concert and even jogging happen so fast you don't even have time to notice and get annoyed about it. Personally, I feel like the TS4 rabbitholes are less disruptive and less hassle for nothing but a few points or buffs or whatever. They also don't take up large spaces in the neighbourhood.
How about jobs , and careers.School they don't speed up.
I honestly never had the same hatred for rabbit holes as other people on here seem to have. I actually don't mind them. I like having the option to send my sims off somewhere and focus on others. That said, I think certain things are more fitting for rabbit holes than others. The developers' priories on what should and shouldn't be a rabbit hole seem backwards in a lot of areas. I think this is really evident in Discover University where the parties and social stuff are active, but yet the actual classes are rabbit holes. It should be the other way around.
My viewpoint and yours are 180 from each other on that: I would find DU really dull if I had to sit through lectures with my Sim and watch them take notes, but have parties be rabbit holes? That would suck all the fun out of it. And I actually like studying. And I have been to college in which all studying and zero partying were the reality. It's not great.
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I'll honestly never understand all the hate for the rabbit holes. Other than a few places like the resteraunts and shops, I don't even need to see every place on the inside.
Rabbit holes are still better than the simply disappearing they do now haha. I think it is mostly from City Living, sims get invited to see a theater play by friend, you accept to go, then your sim just disappears and comes back with small review. I really don't see the point of this. I think it would have been better if they would at least travel to a rabbit hole.
And I do think a rabbit hole would be the best option in these types of cases. If they had invest in creating a venue and everything for every place a sim goes to, there would be much less of other gameplay, probably.
That what's so funny about this rabbit hole issue to me.
People just get annoyed because there are buildings that they can't go inside.
But in TS4 you still have rabbit holes, they just don't have a physical location.
In TS3 it makes sense that they have a physical location because it would be odd to have this open world and still have your sim evaporate to some unknown location.
Maybe if they do another open world game we could have TS3 rabbit holes, but with an option to load the lot the for more in depth game play.
It's more than that for me. One issue is the useless travel time and then losing track of my Sim because they're somewhere out in the world doing nothing. If they disappear and return to/from the home lot, it's automatic and I'll know where they'll be. I can't stand wasting time to bring my Sims somewhere only to have them disappear while I'm staring at the outside of a building.
Another issue is that the buildings take up lot space. I just see it as wasted space. If I'm going to bring my Sims to a venue or community lot, it has to have gameplay or else, why bother? I could put something playable or another household in that space. Having a downtown filled with rabbit hole venues is like the Sims 4's backdrops are for others... They don't do anything and break immersion. Why even go anywhere?
But yeah, playability is a factor as well. I love to take my Sims out of the house and bring them to other lots to do things. I'm really not a "homebody" player. Because of this, I need to have gameplay in the world or the game gets lame really quickly.
Rabbit holes are still better than the simply disappearing they do now haha. I think it is mostly from City Living, sims get invited to see a theater play by friend, you accept to go, then your sim just disappears and comes back with small review. I really don't see the point of this. I think it would have been better if they would at least travel to a rabbit hole.
And I do think a rabbit hole would be the best option in these types of cases. If they had invest in creating a venue and everything for every place a sim goes to, there would be much less of other gameplay, probably.
That what's so funny about this rabbit hole issue to me.
People just get annoyed because there are buildings that they can't go inside.
But in TS4 you still have rabbit holes, they just don't have a physical location.
In TS3 it makes sense that they have a physical location because it would be odd to have this open world and still have your sim evaporate to some unknown location.
Maybe if they do another open world game we could have TS3 rabbit holes, but with an option to load the lot the for more in depth game play.
It's more than that for me. One issue is the useless travel time and then losing track of my Sim because they're somewhere out in the world doing nothing. If they disappear and return to/from the home lot, it's automatic and I'll know where they'll be. I can't stand wasting time to bring my Sims somewhere only to have them disappear while I'm staring at the outside of a building.
Another issue is that the buildings take up lot space. I just see it as wasted space. If I'm going to bring my Sims to a venue or community lot, it has to have gameplay or else, why bother? I could put something playable or another household in that space. Having a downtown filled with rabbit hole venues is like the Sims 4's backdrops are for others... They don't do anything and break immersion. Why even go anywhere?
But yeah, playability is a factor as well. I love to take my Sims out of the house and bring them to other lots to do things. I'm really not a "homebody" player. Because of this, I need to have gameplay in the world or the game gets lame really quickly.
Yeah, I agree.
Having on-screen rabbitholes as opposed to off-screen rabbitholes does add gameplay, if you think about it -- being able to manage multiple Sims all over the world at once without going through loading screens and being reduced to a single lot at a time.
Of course, having on-screen venues adds the most gameplay.
Rabbit holes are still better than the simply disappearing they do now haha. I think it is mostly from City Living, sims get invited to see a theater play by friend, you accept to go, then your sim just disappears and comes back with small review. I really don't see the point of this. I think it would have been better if they would at least travel to a rabbit hole.
And I do think a rabbit hole would be the best option in these types of cases. If they had invest in creating a venue and everything for every place a sim goes to, there would be much less of other gameplay, probably.
That what's so funny about this rabbit hole issue to me.
People just get annoyed because there are buildings that they can't go inside.
But in TS4 you still have rabbit holes, they just don't have a physical location.
In TS3 it makes sense that they have a physical location because it would be odd to have this open world and still have your sim evaporate to some unknown location.
Maybe if they do another open world game we could have TS3 rabbit holes, but with an option to load the lot the for more in depth game play.
It's more than that for me. One issue is the useless travel time and then losing track of my Sim because they're somewhere out in the world doing nothing. If they disappear and return to/from the home lot, it's automatic and I'll know where they'll be. I can't stand wasting time to bring my Sims somewhere only to have them disappear while I'm staring at the outside of a building.
Another issue is that the buildings take up lot space. I just see it as wasted space. If I'm going to bring my Sims to a venue or community lot, it has to have gameplay or else, why bother? I could put something playable or another household in that space. Having a downtown filled with rabbit hole venues is like the Sims 4's backdrops are for others... They don't do anything and break immersion. Why even go anywhere?
But yeah, playability is a factor as well. I love to take my Sims out of the house and bring them to other lots to do things. I'm really not a "homebody" player. Because of this, I need to have gameplay in the world or the game gets lame really quickly.
Yeah, I agree.
Having on-screen rabbitholes as opposed to off-screen rabbitholes does add gameplay, if you think about it -- being able to manage multiple Sims all over the world at once without going through loading screens and being reduced to a single lot at a time.
Of course, having on-screen venues adds the most gameplay.
Yeah, I get that for a lot of people, having those buildings adds immersion to the way they play. For me, it actually disrupts the flow of my style, lol. Sims 4 Uni added rabbit hole buildings and they've just added frustration to my gameplay. While normally, (like in Sims 2) once my Sims left the dorm lot I wouldn't have to worry about them because they'd go off to class and then return to the dorm. But now I have to track every Sim to make sure they actually go into the building, and then when they're done, they just hang around outside while their needs drop. I know that this is mainly a Sims 4 thing, (except for hanging around outside of the rabbit hole) but I prefer to sort of have a "main base" where I know my Sims will all end up when they return because I like to play several Sims in a household and it's just easier for me to manage. I don't really care what their work/school buildings look like or want to see them because Sims are just going to disappear anyway so it doesn't matter. I'd rather have that manageability of them returning to "main base" where I can stay on top of the gameplay.
To each our own. But that's why I feel like future iterations of the game should have optional rabbit holes, so both types of players can still play the way they want.
Rabbit holes are still better than the simply disappearing they do now haha. I think it is mostly from City Living, sims get invited to see a theater play by friend, you accept to go, then your sim just disappears and comes back with small review. I really don't see the point of this. I think it would have been better if they would at least travel to a rabbit hole.
And I do think a rabbit hole would be the best option in these types of cases. If they had invest in creating a venue and everything for every place a sim goes to, there would be much less of other gameplay, probably.
That what's so funny about this rabbit hole issue to me.
People just get annoyed because there are buildings that they can't go inside.
But in TS4 you still have rabbit holes, they just don't have a physical location.
In TS3 it makes sense that they have a physical location because it would be odd to have this open world and still have your sim evaporate to some unknown location.
Maybe if they do another open world game we could have TS3 rabbit holes, but with an option to load the lot the for more in depth game play.
It's more than that for me. One issue is the useless travel time and then losing track of my Sim because they're somewhere out in the world doing nothing. If they disappear and return to/from the home lot, it's automatic and I'll know where they'll be. I can't stand wasting time to bring my Sims somewhere only to have them disappear while I'm staring at the outside of a building.
Another issue is that the buildings take up lot space. I just see it as wasted space. If I'm going to bring my Sims to a venue or community lot, it has to have gameplay or else, why bother? I could put something playable or another household in that space. Having a downtown filled with rabbit hole venues is like the Sims 4's backdrops are for others... They don't do anything and break immersion. Why even go anywhere?
But yeah, playability is a factor as well. I love to take my Sims out of the house and bring them to other lots to do things. I'm really not a "homebody" player. Because of this, I need to have gameplay in the world or the game gets lame really quickly.
Yeah, I agree.
Having on-screen rabbitholes as opposed to off-screen rabbitholes does add gameplay, if you think about it -- being able to manage multiple Sims all over the world at once without going through loading screens and being reduced to a single lot at a time.
Of course, having on-screen venues adds the most gameplay.
Yeah, I get that for a lot of people, having those buildings adds immersion to the way they play. For me, it actually disrupts the flow of my style, lol. Sims 4 Uni added rabbit hole buildings and they've just added frustration to my gameplay. While normally, (like in Sims 2) once my Sims left the dorm lot I wouldn't have to worry about them because they'd go off to class and then return to the dorm. But now I have to track every Sim to make sure they actually go into the building, and then when they're done, they just hang around outside while their needs drop. I know that this is mainly a Sims 4 thing, (except for hanging around outside of the rabbit hole) but I prefer to sort of have a "main base" where I know my Sims will all end up when they return because I like to play several Sims in a household and it's just easier for me to manage. I don't really care what their work/school buildings look like or want to see them because Sims are just going to disappear anyway so it doesn't matter. I'd rather have that manageability of them returning to "main base" where I can stay on top of the gameplay.
To each our own. But that's why I feel like future iterations of the game should have optional rabbit holes, so both types of players can still play the way they want.
In TS3, the rabbitholes come in all sizes. I had just made copies of all the rabbitholes from all the worlds I own into my library. I never realized until then that they all come in different sizes.
Also when rabbithole rugs became available, that opened up the options for rabbitholes even wider. You can now create your own rabbithole lots any way you want, with any building design or any size lot. So if you don't like the original rabbitholes because you think they're so large, you can now make rabbitholes with the same functionality in the size you prefer.
I'm smiling when you say that travel is useless. Travel in TS3 actually adds to the immersion of gameplay, of your sims living in the world. That's why TS4 is so boring - there's very little immersion.
I don't have TS4's DU EP. So sims don't go to class like they're suppose to and that's why you have to check on them? In TS3, all sims, whether active or not, reliably go to their classes. Also, all sims go to other places after their classes unless they have a reason to linger (like having another class in the same building).
In TS3, it's pretty easy to manage a household of more than one sim even if they are all in different places in the world. There's also an option in their pie menu for everyone in the household to go home at once from wherever they are. You can also have sims meet from other parts of the world to meet up at together a lot. I didn't know that it was so difficult to do that in TS4. I'm glad I didn't invest in it!
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Besides the fact that one of the rabbit hole buildings affected job performance and the line of people trying to get in could get backed up the only other issue I had was that we couldn't use something like CASt on the buildings.
They still disappear though, instead of disappearing at the edge of your lot, they disappear into a building halfway across the map. Sims could busk in the park for money, why not do the same in a theater and call it a concert? A movie, ballet recital, comedy gig, or debate could also take place in the theater, and there could be a schedule of different events that your sim could check out and attend depending on their interests. Or the rollerskating/ice skating events or even darts and pool could be turned into an annual championship with spectators. Spectators don't have to be hundreds and thousands as in real life, they could be limited to a number of 10-30 seats similar to the average number of sims that visit a venue.
For school, kids could do things like gardening, frog collection, insect collection, crystal collection, robotics, etc, for science subjects, any musical instruments or drawing, photography, for arts, cooking, cleaning, repairing for home economics, debate and read books/write short stories for literature, sales for economics/maths, take up any sports or dancing for PE. The classes could work like clubs in TS4, and 8 sim kids would get together to perform those activities together, and they could have a different class every day. Children can achieve upto level 3/10 in their chosen subjects, and need to level up at least once to graduate, teens can achieve upto level 5/10. In university they would achieve upto level 7/10 with the possibility to take extra classes to get honours and level to 8/10. They can later get jobs depending on their skill levels and increase their skills further on the job.
With work, all objects and lots could have work related interactions associated with them. If you put a bar on a lot, you would get the option to create a barista job, set work hours, uniform and qualifications, then any sim could apply for that job or you could assign a sim yourself. If you create a theater then you would get the option to create various jobs necessary for the lot and hire performers. I think such a system would be nicer and get the player directly involved and not break the immersion.
TS3 has real reasons for career rabbit holes like the size of worlds for one reason and performance sake. However, TS4 shouldn't be able to use that excuse at all, it's a closed world system. So, any deep sea diving should never have been a 'rabbit hole' nor class at a college, nor walking off the lot to go to work. Nor should any of those volunteer opportunites rabbit holes been a thing in TS4. Etc. Etc.
TS4 boast of being the best game ever, not hardly when it uses 'performance' as the reason Sims are culled in a closed world system where it doesn't even have to calculate memories, and or relationships or keep up with everyone in the world and what they were doing and where they have been. It's hogwash. It claims performance is the reason for a tiny five lot district....or even less, two lots....TS2 can make the excuse for offworld careers and or places like the BV boat tours etc. because it has to calulate memories and relationships and keep track of every conversation in the game and apply a reaction etc. later like insults and or real happening like told in gossip etc. And TS3 has a real excuse for any rabbit holes because it also keeps up with every Sim in game, however, TS4 has no such excuse. It's why some of us can't suspend our disbelief long enough to believe it's even necessary.
Not singling you out by quoting just pointing out why TS2 and TS3 have reasons for some rabbit holes stuff and TS4 has no excuses in logic. It's ok if some don't like open classes in a college pack but the thing about TS3 is you could attend it with your Sim or not, and was more to do than just watch them skill. Much like the doctor career in TS4 classes were a change in TS3 which I did like. (And I don't give TS3 credit very often).
That's creates better immersion though than just disappearing from your home lot. I actually love when they travel to their work or school and be able to see where and what the career building or school looks like.
TS3 has the Showtime EP that pretty much allows buskers to have scheduled performances at certain venues. You can also create your own lots with the same functionality if you wish.
There's also a cinema venue which is an active version of the theater.
The events like rollerskating or darts we don't have, but sims who play those do have hidden skill levels. Maybe such events can be moddable. I wish I knew how to program....
Zerbu's Ultimate Careers mod is used for active schools and careers in TS3. It pretty great because you can have both versions in the world (and set up your lots and activities any way you want). At the same time, if you ever want a break from having to manually manage your sim to go to work or school, you can just send them to the rabbithole.
I would like both rabbitholes and active versions of them for everything in TS5. They can just take a look at Zerbu's Ultimate Careers mod and TS2's Open For Business EP (without the tedious employee management and training or make them optional). The one of the many good things I want to point out about Zerbu's Ultimate Careers mod is that you set the active mode of each career individually. This is good if you're worried about the performance of the computer. How I use it, I only make ONE active career per story. If I'm playing rotationally through a town which I'm building up, and playing different households, I don't bother using it and just play the rabbitholes. All my retail shops and restaurants, any lot where my active sims aren't working though are all active.
If I'm playing a family, I find playing more than one active career or school is overwhelming. I had a husband and wife, which both had active careers - husband is a fireman and wife is a research doctor. They had three kids. It was very hectic having the husband putting out fires and rescuing people all the time and having the wife do all this research and doing vaccinations and free clinic all the time. Can you imagine if I made the school active for all the three children? It was bad enough that they had after school activities, school trips, having to be trained in various things growing up, receiving lifetime rewards opportunities, throwing parties when their parents are out of town, having mood swings, getting busted after curfew, getting punished....
So yeah, rabbitholes are definitely needed. But it would be great if in TS5, there are active versions that don't need to be modded in for ALL the rabbitholes (careers, schools, universities, restaurants, clubs, retail shops, hotels/resorts, sports, etc.) so that we can implement them whenever and wherever we choose.
Also, bring back scuba diving active career and the ability to create our own diving lots in TS5! I can't believe that wasn't included in Island Living! Grrr!
I agree with your post! I use a mod that changes the time between each person entering the building from something like 10 seconds down to 2 seconds apart so that the traffic through the doorway is much faster.
Also agree about making the rabbitholes CAStable without having to use mods! What were they afraid of? That we'd cast them in crazy patterns and colors, worse than anything one would find in the Katy Perry stuff pack? Lol! You KNOW we would!
Anyway, there are CAStable versions of the rabbitholes at Mod the Sims for TS3 if you need them.
I think that the base game should be designed to have smaller open areas (but larger than Sims 4's neighborhoods!) but still be built to accommodate rotational play with ease. So maybe if you have a household marked "played", that house loads differently. If there's Story Progression, it should be fully optional and only affect townies and NPCs so rotational players don't have to worry about their other households getting tampered with. This would allow progression for unplayed Sims to keep the worlds populated with all ages. So the "played" and "unplayed" and "favorites" tags should definitely carry over from Sims 4 to allow better control over the game. If all of this was designed properly, we could have the option from the getgo to place rabbit hole buildings in an open district, and our Sims, instead of disappearing off the lot, would go to the building (mainly for work, school, etc). But if we didn't place them, our Sims would disappear from the lot as normal. This would allow the choices of the individual player to build the world as they like, to control their Sims as they like, and still accommodate various play styles. There would probably still have to be loading screens between districts, but if those districts were decently sized, this wouldn't be as much of a bother.
As the game continued to be developed, we could get even more choices, similar to what we have in Sims 4 where you can choose to work from home, go to your playable job, go to a rabbit hole building, or rabbit hole off the lot. Venues could come with a rabbit hole option for those who want it, but I strongly believe that all commercial lots should be playable, or have the option to be, so people can pick and choose what they want to play out, what they want to place down, or what they want to be a rabbit hole. There shouldn't be any sacrifices in gameplay. But including optional rabbit holes would also give more flexibility for those who aren't playing on powerful systems. So someone could just turn a few of their community lots into rabbit hole buildings to save on performance, while a player with an updated system could have more playable venues.
We're talking about the fifth iteration of a top series that's going over 20 years old. It's time all players get the game we deserve. Even if it takes longer to develop. EA needs to put proper funding back into this series. The players shouldn't be fighting over the scraps like we are. And if there truly is sufficient competition coming, they're going to need to step it up now, not later.
And I do think a rabbit hole would be the best option in these types of cases. If they had invest in creating a venue and everything for every place a sim goes to, there would be much less of other gameplay, probably.
That what's so funny about this rabbit hole issue to me.
People just get annoyed because there are buildings that they can't go inside.
But in TS4 you still have rabbit holes, they just don't have a physical location.
In TS3 it makes sense that they have a physical location because it would be odd to have this open world and still have your sim evaporate to some unknown location.
Maybe if they do another open world game we could have TS3 rabbit holes, but with an option to load the lot the for more in depth game play.
On one hand, when there's an actual building rabbit hole like in TS3, you have to wait for the sim to go all the way to wherever the rabbit hole is, sometimes the other side of the neighbourhood, wait for the whatever action is happening there to finish and then you need to return back to your home lot. On the other hand you have TS4 where the rabbit hole actions like the theater and concert and even jogging happen so fast you don't even have time to notice and get annoyed about it. Personally, I feel like the TS4 rabbitholes are less disruptive and less hassle for nothing but a few points or buffs or whatever. They also don't take up large spaces in the neighbourhood.
How about jobs , and careers.School they don't speed up.
They do speed up jobs and careers if you play a single sim. You barely have time to clean the plates and put the food away after breakfast.
My viewpoint and yours are 180 from each other on that: I would find DU really dull if I had to sit through lectures with my Sim and watch them take notes, but have parties be rabbit holes? That would suck all the fun out of it. And I actually like studying. And I have been to college in which all studying and zero partying were the reality. It's not great.
Let's make Liberty and Justice For All a reality.
That wasn't my experience. The only Tim I saw four speed up.Is when no sims we're at my household.
Glad to see a positive light on the rabbit holes.
It's more than that for me. One issue is the useless travel time and then losing track of my Sim because they're somewhere out in the world doing nothing. If they disappear and return to/from the home lot, it's automatic and I'll know where they'll be. I can't stand wasting time to bring my Sims somewhere only to have them disappear while I'm staring at the outside of a building.
Another issue is that the buildings take up lot space. I just see it as wasted space. If I'm going to bring my Sims to a venue or community lot, it has to have gameplay or else, why bother? I could put something playable or another household in that space. Having a downtown filled with rabbit hole venues is like the Sims 4's backdrops are for others... They don't do anything and break immersion. Why even go anywhere?
But yeah, playability is a factor as well. I love to take my Sims out of the house and bring them to other lots to do things. I'm really not a "homebody" player. Because of this, I need to have gameplay in the world or the game gets lame really quickly.
That's why I said it's for single sims. If you have other sims on the lots you can play them and forget about the one working somewhere else.
Yeah, I agree.
Having on-screen rabbitholes as opposed to off-screen rabbitholes does add gameplay, if you think about it -- being able to manage multiple Sims all over the world at once without going through loading screens and being reduced to a single lot at a time.
Of course, having on-screen venues adds the most gameplay.
Yeah, I get that for a lot of people, having those buildings adds immersion to the way they play. For me, it actually disrupts the flow of my style, lol. Sims 4 Uni added rabbit hole buildings and they've just added frustration to my gameplay. While normally, (like in Sims 2) once my Sims left the dorm lot I wouldn't have to worry about them because they'd go off to class and then return to the dorm. But now I have to track every Sim to make sure they actually go into the building, and then when they're done, they just hang around outside while their needs drop. I know that this is mainly a Sims 4 thing, (except for hanging around outside of the rabbit hole) but I prefer to sort of have a "main base" where I know my Sims will all end up when they return because I like to play several Sims in a household and it's just easier for me to manage. I don't really care what their work/school buildings look like or want to see them because Sims are just going to disappear anyway so it doesn't matter. I'd rather have that manageability of them returning to "main base" where I can stay on top of the gameplay.
To each our own. But that's why I feel like future iterations of the game should have optional rabbit holes, so both types of players can still play the way they want.
In TS3, the rabbitholes come in all sizes. I had just made copies of all the rabbitholes from all the worlds I own into my library. I never realized until then that they all come in different sizes.
Also when rabbithole rugs became available, that opened up the options for rabbitholes even wider. You can now create your own rabbithole lots any way you want, with any building design or any size lot. So if you don't like the original rabbitholes because you think they're so large, you can now make rabbitholes with the same functionality in the size you prefer.
I'm smiling when you say that travel is useless. Travel in TS3 actually adds to the immersion of gameplay, of your sims living in the world. That's why TS4 is so boring - there's very little immersion.
I don't have TS4's DU EP. So sims don't go to class like they're suppose to and that's why you have to check on them? In TS3, all sims, whether active or not, reliably go to their classes. Also, all sims go to other places after their classes unless they have a reason to linger (like having another class in the same building).
In TS3, it's pretty easy to manage a household of more than one sim even if they are all in different places in the world. There's also an option in their pie menu for everyone in the household to go home at once from wherever they are. You can also have sims meet from other parts of the world to meet up at together a lot. I didn't know that it was so difficult to do that in TS4. I'm glad I didn't invest in it!