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What Sims 4 got wrong and brings me back to Sims 3. Can still be fixed!

Comments

  • SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 4,845 Member
    I've lost all hope for Sims 4.....I've gone back to Angry Birds,Minecraft and the fun games on Neopets while I'm waiting for Sims and a Sims 1 reboot to be made.

    Neopets is the only game besides sims 4 I still love to play haha... Though lately I haven't had time for it.
  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,570 Member
    Karon wrote: »
    @Sk8rblaze its not about open world, its the story progression. Also, that was a problem in SIms 3 at some points, like when you visited a hot spot on town and there was like 2/3 sims at most, because all the rest of the town was at work or sleeping.

    I mean, longevity wise, yes, story progression could enhance that realistic approach people desire (townies aging, having children, etc.).

    However, for day-to-day things, like Sims actually following their work schedules, not randomly being assigned non-existent careers, being drawn to lots which actually correspond to their relationships/skills/interests, etc -- the open world makes it feel like Sims are far more alive and intelligent as opposed to TS4's format of Sims just being generated for the purpose of walking across the street.
  • DeKayDeKay Posts: 81,474 Member
    I mean.... Meh? The example you gave is just so specific and coincidental, like looking thru the telescope and stuff, bla bla bla. But I feel like you can get this kinda drama in TS4 too. You can see other Sims visit the worlds you are in (assuming they don't live in the same world). You just have to look around. I have seen stuff like this before cuz I tend to be nosy and watch other sims. 😂 The only difference is that you can't look into each and every lot but you can def see everyone in the open areas.

    But either way, yeah, I do feel like TS4 needs more unexpected consequences or unexpected drama.
    My Top Song of the Day: Fancy Footwork by Chromeo
    FwDXXd5.gif
  • TOLKIENTOLKIEN Posts: 1,594 Member
    edited February 2020
    DeKay wrote: »
    I mean.... Meh? The example you gave is just so specific and coincidental, like looking thru the telescope and stuff, bla bla bla. But I feel like you can get this kinda drama in TS4 too. You can see other Sims visit the worlds you are in (assuming they don't live in the same world). You just have to look around. I have seen stuff like this before cuz I tend to be nosy and watch other sims. 😂 The only difference is that you can't look into each and every lot but you can def see everyone in the open areas.

    But either way, yeah, I do feel like TS4 needs more unexpected consequences or unexpected drama.

    Its a little different though, in my example those sims not in my house are living lives/making actions completely removed from my current household literally on the OTHER side of the world far from my current lot. It was AWESOME that I just randomly checked to see where she would be possibly looking and all those things came together - but I also could have gone completely without knowing he was even IN world.

    Where in the Sims 4, sims react to your lot and where your household is. No matter where you go it autofills sims for that location, they weren't their previously living their own lives and that is what I was getting at. They are there because your there then it starts to auto cycles sims in and out randomly from where ever and wearing whatever unless its a controlled world like the islands.

    Thats what I was getting at, and in my example the active world of the Sims 3 is so big its honestly easy not to know what is happening when your sims aren't present. I suppose some people might not like that though too, they want to be present for everything involving other sims but there in comes the drama - I rarely see other sims interact in any meaningful way other then to watch/use entertainment or order food/drinks, ect. They dont' really socially mingle outside of club settings beyond basic chats.

    I dont' think I've EVER seen another sim flirt one another sims not in my household - thats a question btw, do non household sims flirt with one another in the background in Sims 4?
  • BabykittyjadeBabykittyjade Posts: 4,975 Member
    I don't have a LOT of complaints for sims 4 but this is one of them. I've said before the townie life is so bad. I feel like they are scripted dead zombies. And everytime I go to a children's park with my kids I just see adults smashing dollhouses and beating up the giant bears.
    I'm like seriously you got nothing better to do?
    Then to make its worse it's like all kids are scripted to detect a broken dollhouse on the lot just to cry about it.

    And like someone said I see all kinds of sims where I shouldn't see them at 4 in the morning. Makes the world feel fake. And no background drama takes place.

    In the short time that I tried out sims 3 I noticed the difference right away. It felt so alive and like everyone were going about their lives. I watched my neighbor come outside her yard to feed and play with her birds. Kids in the park having a picnic. People on their way to actually work, protests going on. A guy was taking care of his horse etc etc. I really fell in love with the world.

    However, as a rotational player I like that my played households don't advance without me.
    Zombies, oh please oh please give us zombies!! :'(
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,997 Member
    edited February 2020
    This game can be fixed and can have more content pumped through without the need to spend on more DLC. The Sims 2 was not open world and had loading screens just as The Sims 4. Yet, the Sims in the game had a lot more character and personality.

    It’s up to Maxis to deliver. Yes, I do mean Maxis. We need to look at the bigger picture and stop pointing fingers at EA. Maxis isn’t a small indie game studio. They are part of a AAA company and know what they are doing. They are not stupid at all. It’s all about having the willingness to make it a better place.

    Have you any idea how BioWare shot themselves in the foot with Mass Effect and then Anthem?

    It’s just another BioWare fiasco but under a different name. Even Will Wright isn’t willing to associate himself with The Sims 4.

    I sent out a poll to polish up the ideas section a week ago and most of the responses were not positive because there was lack of hope on Maxis willing to listen in the first place.

    The Gurus are not transparent and NO ONE KNOWS what they are up to. There are no developer notes, developer blogs or developer streams. This isn’t normal. Whosoever thinks so, really needs to open up their box and please look at other games out there - specifically not EA and how they treat their player base.

    This forum is indeed a sad place as it has turned into some kind of mourning place for those who have hopes and dreams for this franchise to become better. Most have completely jumped ship and not bothered anymore. As the criticism and feedback lessen, the more it is a signal that people who are truly passionate and want the best for the game have left. Lost hope. We all at the end of the day love The Sims and how much it means to each of us.

    Things to take notice:

    - Threads to thank Maxis for certain updates or DLCs are next to none.

    Look. Players can be thankful and no doubt someone will blow appreciation towards developers when the time comes. Just take a look at other games or game companies and how much their players adore the commitment.

    - Threads that derail the reality of the situation pop up often. These threads are evident and I don’t need to point towards what they are or who makes them. Behavior like this is also toxic. Being ignorant about the reality of the situation.
    Post edited by Hestia on
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  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,570 Member
    edited February 2020
    Hestia wrote: »
    This game can be fixed and can have more content pumped through without the need to spend on more DLC. The Sims 2 was not open world and had loading screens just as The Sims 4. Yet, the Sims in the game had a lot more character and personality.

    It’s up to Maxis to deliver. Yes, I do mean Maxis. We need to look at the bigger picture and stop pointing fingers at EA. Maxis isn’t a small indie game studio. They are part of a AAA company and know what they are doing. They are not stupid at all. It’s all about having the willingness to make it a better place.

    Have you any idea how BioWare shot themselves in the foot with Mass Effect and then Anthem?

    It’s just another BioWare fiasco but under a different name. Even Will Wright isn’t willing to associate himself with The Sims 4.

    I sent out a poll to polish up the ideas section a week ago and most of the responses were not positive because there was lack of hope on Maxis willing to listen in the first place.

    The Gurus are not transparent and NO ONE KNOWS what they are up to. There are no developer notes, developer blogs or developer streams. This isn’t normal. Whosoever thinks so, really needs to open up their box and please look at other games out there - specifically not EA and how they treat their player base.

    The forum is indeed a sad place as it has turned into some kind of mourning place for those who has hopes and dreams for this franchise to become better. Most have completely jumped ship and not bothered anymore. As the criticism and feedback lessens, the more it is a signal that people who are truly passionate and want the best for the game have left. Lost hope. We all at the end of the day love The Sims and how much it means to each of us.

    Things to take notice:

    - Threads to thank Maxis for certain updates or DLCs are next to none.

    Look. Players can be thankful and no doubt someone will blow appreciation towards developers when the time comes. Just take a look at other games or game companies and how much their players adore the commitment.

    - Threads that derail the reality of the situation pop up often. These threads are evident and I don’t need to point towards what they are or who makes them. Behavior like this is also toxic. Being ignorant towards the reality of the situation.

    I agree -- Maxis should be held accountable for the shortcomings of The Sims 4. They are capable of doing much better than the quality of the work they've been putting out this last iteration. Even The Sims 3, unstable as it is, remains a far more ambitious and better thought out title than this game (if you can even call it that with how horribly the balancing and game design has been).

    And, at the same time, with the leadership at EA thinking people want this franchise to go online, and the base game of TS4 constantly going free-to-play, the outlook just doesn't look good for this series. I'm honestly still absolutely dumbfounded how out of touch EA is in the way they think we want ANY online connectivity for this game, especially after it caused so many problems for us during TS4's development. And how about how "popular" Simport was/is; nothing short of a joke.

    Posting on the forums just feels like beating a dead horse at times. Pages and pages of feedback, and none of it is being used. Seeing that whole online statement was just discouraging at best to many people that pour tons of money into the game.
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,997 Member
    edited February 2020
    Simport was a disaster and I want none of that ever again. I don't want story progression, items or achievements limited to online play/multiplayer unless I am playing a game dedicated to that.

    The Ideas Corner is an entire mess. Other companies utilize an upvote system to keep up with relevant feedback and customers/players can sort through categories easier with new/hot/most popular. At this point, I don't know where their priorities are. It's so disheartening and incredibly sad to look at.

    I think at the end of the day, Simmers just want acknowledgment. A response.
    wB2Zykl.jpg
  • DeKayDeKay Posts: 81,474 Member
    TOLKIEN wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    I mean.... Meh? The example you gave is just so specific and coincidental, like looking thru the telescope and stuff, bla bla bla. But I feel like you can get this kinda drama in TS4 too. You can see other Sims visit the worlds you are in (assuming they don't live in the same world). You just have to look around. I have seen stuff like this before cuz I tend to be nosy and watch other sims. 😂 The only difference is that you can't look into each and every lot but you can def see everyone in the open areas.

    But either way, yeah, I do feel like TS4 needs more unexpected consequences or unexpected drama.

    Its a little different though, in my example those sims not in my house are living lives/making actions completely removed from my current household literally on the OTHER side of the world far from my current lot. It was AWESOME that I just randomly checked to see where she would be possibly looking and all those things came together - but I also could have gone completely without knowing he was even IN world.

    Where in the Sims 4, sims react to your lot and where your household is. No matter where you go it autofills sims for that location, they weren't their previously living their own lives and that is what I was getting at. They are there because your there then it starts to auto cycles sims in and out randomly from where ever and wearing whatever unless its a controlled world like the islands.

    Thats what I was getting at, and in my example the active world of the Sims 3 is so big its honestly easy not to know what is happening when your sims aren't present. I suppose some people might not like that though too, they want to be present for everything involving other sims but there in comes the drama - I rarely see other sims interact in any meaningful way other then to watch/use entertainment or order food/drinks, ect. They dont' really socially mingle outside of club settings beyond basic chats.

    I dont' think I've EVER seen another sim flirt one another sims not in my household - thats a question btw, do non household sims flirt with one another in the background in Sims 4?

    To answer your question. I think so? Cuz sometimes when I go and play another household that I haven't played in a long time, they do start to form relationships with other people. Sometimes they become lovebirds. So I suspect so. And I believe in happens "in the background" but more like when you are on a public lot and somewhere at the corner of the world in the open area, someone is flirting. XD
    My Top Song of the Day: Fancy Footwork by Chromeo
    FwDXXd5.gif
  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,570 Member
    Hestia wrote: »
    Simport was a disaster and I want none of that ever again. I don't want story progression, items or achievements limited to online play/multiplayer unless I am playing a game dedicated to that.

    The Ideas Corner is an entire mess. Other companies utilize an upvote system to keep up with relevant feedback and customers/players can sort through categories easier with new/hot/most popular. At this point, I don't know where their priorities are. It's so disheartening and incredibly sad to look at.

    I think at the end of the day, Simmers just want acknowledgment. A response.

    Personally, I'm beyond wanting acknowledgement and any of the other theatrics, mess ups, etc. they've been pulling this whole iteration. I just want to buy a good, fun game without the drama.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    DeKay wrote: »
    TOLKIEN wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    I mean.... Meh? The example you gave is just so specific and coincidental, like looking thru the telescope and stuff, bla bla bla. But I feel like you can get this kinda drama in TS4 too. You can see other Sims visit the worlds you are in (assuming they don't live in the same world). You just have to look around. I have seen stuff like this before cuz I tend to be nosy and watch other sims. 😂 The only difference is that you can't look into each and every lot but you can def see everyone in the open areas.

    But either way, yeah, I do feel like TS4 needs more unexpected consequences or unexpected drama.

    Its a little different though, in my example those sims not in my house are living lives/making actions completely removed from my current household literally on the OTHER side of the world far from my current lot. It was AWESOME that I just randomly checked to see where she would be possibly looking and all those things came together - but I also could have gone completely without knowing he was even IN world.

    Where in the Sims 4, sims react to your lot and where your household is. No matter where you go it autofills sims for that location, they weren't their previously living their own lives and that is what I was getting at. They are there because your there then it starts to auto cycles sims in and out randomly from where ever and wearing whatever unless its a controlled world like the islands.

    Thats what I was getting at, and in my example the active world of the Sims 3 is so big its honestly easy not to know what is happening when your sims aren't present. I suppose some people might not like that though too, they want to be present for everything involving other sims but there in comes the drama - I rarely see other sims interact in any meaningful way other then to watch/use entertainment or order food/drinks, ect. They dont' really socially mingle outside of club settings beyond basic chats.

    I dont' think I've EVER seen another sim flirt one another sims not in my household - thats a question btw, do non household sims flirt with one another in the background in Sims 4?

    To answer your question. I think so? Cuz sometimes when I go and play another household that I haven't played in a long time, they do start to form relationships with other people. Sometimes they become lovebirds. So I suspect so. And I believe in happens "in the background" but more like when you are on a public lot and somewhere at the corner of the world in the open area, someone is flirting. XD
    The difference is that ‘in the background’ in Sims 4 means something just changed in the code. It’s not actually happening. When I see a snowman in Sims 3, I know an actual sim actually built it. I may have missed it, but it did happen (and sometimes I do see it). When sims in 3 become lovebirds, they literally flirted with each other at some point (like in the OP’s example).
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  • GoldmoldarGoldmoldar Posts: 11,966 Member
    EA/Maxis for me did wrong with Sims 4 and sadly the way Sims 4 is coded/programmed it is certain features which does not include Open World that makes think Sims 4 is stuck the way it is until the end of Sims 4 production life. Also it is too late Imho to save Sims 4 :(
    Omen by HP Intel®️ Core™️ i9- 12900K W/ RGB Liquid Cooler 32GB Nvidia RTX 3080 10Gb ASUS Ultra-Wide 34" Curved Monitor. Omen By HP Intel® Core™ i7-12800HX 32 GB Nvidia 3070 Ti 8 GB 17.3 Screen
  • MissyHissyMissyHissy Posts: 2,022 Member
    DeKay wrote: »
    I mean.... Meh? The example you gave is just so specific and coincidental, like looking thru the telescope and stuff, bla bla bla. But I feel like you can get this kinda drama in TS4 too. You can see other Sims visit the worlds you are in (assuming they don't live in the same world). You just have to look around. I have seen stuff like this before cuz I tend to be nosy and watch other sims. 😂 The only difference is that you can't look into each and every lot but you can def see everyone in the open areas.

    But either way, yeah, I do feel like TS4 needs more unexpected consequences or unexpected drama.

    I get quite a bit of this myself in Sims 4. My current actress has about ten different fellas on the go (she's a serial romantic sim) and while she's setting up romances with another sim, her current boyfriend walks past. Not only that but he actually stops and reacts.
    TxNPPxa.png
    (The boyfriend is in the background)

    So...yeah, this stuff does happen in Sims 4 too. Maybe not with a telescope all the way across the other side of the world but it does. Like @DeKay I love watching the other sims in the area while I'm at home or a community lot 😂 To me it makes sense the activities are relative to the active household. It used to feel like a bit of a waste of resources (to me, anyway) for sims to be flirting in the background, over the other side of town, never seen. I'd rather see that stuff on the active lot, or at least the active neighbourhood. But that's just me, I suppose.

    Slightly off topic but nice pictures of Hidden Springs! I've never worked there much but it looks lovely <3 Is rapper boy a makeover of Tom Wordy from Bridgeport at all? He reminds me of him but maybe it's just the hat! 😂
    *All my mods can be found on The Daily Plumbob*MiAqoAE.png
  • Frn0731Frn0731 Posts: 7,180 Member
    Npc sims do not communicate with each other in the real sense of the word. My sim asked her roommate what she thought of the other roomate and she said 'I have not had the pleasure of meeting her yet' But they talk all the time, share a room, watch t.v. and dine together. This is what makes the game feel so shallow and flat for me, by now those 2 sims should be good friends.
    Maybe if there was a way to introduce them to each other on their first meeting it wouldn't be so awkward, I just don't know.
    Laugh out loud. Often
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    There is no real life in the neighborhood itself. It is all predictable FX effects only. What I loved about the Sims 2 was how interactive the small creatures were. I mean there was even a consequence for leaving dishes out with the death by flies. The environment just felt so alive and wasn't dictated by a buff system. The buff system was the worst thing introduced into the series and turned the series from a life simulation game into a MMO RPG style game. The multitasking is broken too with the simulation lag so even breaks up the simulation effect and makes Sims act more like mimes or robots than human beings with broken up interactions that Sims will most likely not carry out even if automaticity is turned off. It is like watching a fish move that is out of water slowly dying watching Sims move.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 5,809 Member
    Didn’t sims use to autonomously flirt with others? And wasn’t it patched when people complained because married sims didn’t think twice about flirting with anything?


    I agree though, that everything in the sims 4 feels very artificial.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    Didn’t sims use to autonomously flirt with others? And wasn’t it patched when people complained because married sims didn’t think twice about flirting with anything?


    I agree though, that everything in the sims 4 feels very artificial.
    Yeah they used to and yes that is why they don't anymore. It is like Mrs. Crumplebottom has come all over the Sims 4 game and censored it to kid friendly for her and her purse.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • SERVERFRASERVERFRA Posts: 7,108 Member
    edited February 2020
    It's very sad that when the game developers were too afraid to open Sims 4 & let it grow. I've always believed that they got burned bad when Sims 3 was on Windows 7. They need to be brave & believe that Windows 10 with 64 bits & 1 to 2 TB memory can handle everything.
  • FelicityFelicity Posts: 4,979 Member
    edited February 2020
    SERVERFRA wrote: »
    It's very sad that when the game developers were too afraid to open Sims 4 & let it grow. I've always believed that they got burned bad when Sims 3 was on Windows 7. They need to be brave & believe that Windows 10 with 64 bits & 1 to 2 TB memory can handle everything.

    Their engine can't support everything is the problem. Sims 4 already has pretty bad problems with simulation lag, even on 64bit machines. For Sims 3, many of the issues weren't even engine related -- a lot of the lag was caused by bad routing. A for instance: China can go from literally unplayable to just fine by flagging a couple of lots as "no visitors."
  • EveryDaySimEveryDaySim Posts: 193 Member
    I've played games from much smaller, incredibly talented dev teams who can do a whole lot more than this with a whole lot less.

    When we hand them 40 dollars of our money, their end of the bargain is to give us 40 dollars of value in the form of the game that we agreed to buy. Instead what they give us is 40 dollars worth of excuses why it's so hard for them to do their jobs, when other game makers run circles around them blindfolded with one hand tied behind their backs.

    When they start shoveling, we need to close our mouths and stop swallowing. Other teams can fix what needs to be done and get it done, no matter what engine they're working on, no matter what the budget, no matter how much their sweet little angel children need to eat. So much of what we're handed is bad and unnecessary design choices that should never have happened on whiteboard day one of whatever new pack.

    They took our money, we still have no game, we need our money's worth that other devs can deliver but these somehow can't. The rest is all noise. I don't want noise for my money, I want a game.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    edited February 2020
    I've played games from much smaller, incredibly talented dev teams who can do a whole lot more than this with a whole lot less.

    When we hand them 40 dollars of our money, their end of the bargain is to give us 40 dollars of value in the form of the game that we agreed to buy. Instead what they give us is 40 dollars worth of excuses why it's so hard for them to do their jobs, when other game makers run circles around them blindfolded with one hand tied behind their backs.

    When they start shoveling, we need to close our mouths and stop swallowing. Other teams can fix what needs to be done and get it done, no matter what engine they're working on, no matter what the budget, no matter how much their sweet little angel children need to eat. So much of what we're handed is bad and unnecessary design choices that should never have happened on whiteboard day one of whatever new pack.

    They took our money, we still have no game, we need our money's worth that other devs can deliver but these somehow can't. The rest is all noise. I don't want noise for my money, I want a game.
    Sims 4 is never going to be worth its future $1,000 price tag about a year from now. I think it was around $900 last time I checked from initial release date. That's the thing is a $15 game I own offers more game play and been out for a shorter time and made by one person than the Sims 4 has in over five years now. More time is not going to make the game any better. Didn't in five years, won't be much different if game last five more years.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • Vermatrix1Vermatrix1 Posts: 35 Member
    I'm still confused as to why we have watercraft and bikes now considering a sim can't take a step on there without theire being a ten minute loading screen.
  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,570 Member
    I've played games from much smaller, incredibly talented dev teams who can do a whole lot more than this with a whole lot less.

    When we hand them 40 dollars of our money, their end of the bargain is to give us 40 dollars of value in the form of the game that we agreed to buy. Instead what they give us is 40 dollars worth of excuses why it's so hard for them to do their jobs, when other game makers run circles around them blindfolded with one hand tied behind their backs.

    When they start shoveling, we need to close our mouths and stop swallowing. Other teams can fix what needs to be done and get it done, no matter what engine they're working on, no matter what the budget, no matter how much their sweet little angel children need to eat. So much of what we're handed is bad and unnecessary design choices that should never have happened on whiteboard day one of whatever new pack.

    They took our money, we still have no game, we need our money's worth that other devs can deliver but these somehow can't. The rest is all noise. I don't want noise for my money, I want a game.

    Very well said.

    Personally, I'm unhappy with the direction of The Sims with TS4. In the past, I've continued to purchase packs feeling unsatisfied, but gave my feedback and joined discussions of wonderful ideas with other players while doing so. After seeing none of it being used productively for the game, I've simply stopped buying, but still engage in the forums. I'm still a huge Sims fan, still own TS2/TS3 to have fun with, and I do think that there is still a possibility the game/franchise could improve (otherwise I'd have left the forums altogether). But I cannot consciously continue giving money towards something that has declined so far in quality whereas other studios really work hard with far less resources and funding to develop amazing things.

    I don't know if it's EA, Maxis, or specific people working on The Sims that are the root of the problems I feel are plaguing the series, but at any rate, I'm beyond even speculating. I simply just want to buy a good game that exceeds the predecessors.
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,997 Member
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Hestia wrote: »
    Simport was a disaster and I want none of that ever again. I don't want story progression, items or achievements limited to online play/multiplayer unless I am playing a game dedicated to that.

    The Ideas Corner is an entire mess. Other companies utilize an upvote system to keep up with relevant feedback and customers/players can sort through categories easier with new/hot/most popular. At this point, I don't know where their priorities are. It's so disheartening and incredibly sad to look at.

    I think at the end of the day, Simmers just want acknowledgment. A response.

    Personally, I'm beyond wanting acknowledgement and any of the other theatrics, mess ups, etc. they've been pulling this whole iteration. I just want to buy a good, fun game without the drama.

    They can always acknowledge us by listening and delivering. I’m tired of all the drama and chit chat. Action speaks louder than words... Quite frankly, none is being taken. Just more chit chat on twitter and nothing about game development or a road map which they... promised? I don’t know anymore at this point. ;)
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  • CamkatCamkat Posts: 2,329 Member
    The thing that drives me the most crazy about this, is while people say their sims interact with each other. Sure, they do. Do they remember it? Nope. The active sim does. The randoms? Nope. Go to a festival and see Bella and Eliza chitchatting like old buddies. Now go load one of their houses and check the relationship panel. Bella doesn't know Eliza even though you just saw them talking. :/
    Origin ID: Peapod79
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