Happy sims don't need to smile 100% all the time

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Honestly I feel like all the emotions are too over the top, but as a story creator nothing is worse then having to deal with the "constant" joker smile sims walk around with all the time. Forget about story telling, its just creepy. Nobody smiles that much, smiling actually requires a lot of muscles and your face would literally start to hurt.

Regardless could you please make it so sims don't constantly smile or pout, or show exaggerated facial expressions ALL the time they feel said emotion. It should be more like off and on. More so if they smile occassionally while happy it would make them appear more natural, rather then walking around with this pasted on expression that looks like a mask.

Its like emotions cranked up facial expressions to 1000%. I get the game has a visual style but this constant smiling is just unnatural to see and annoying as a story teller to deal with.

Comments

  • Sims4MagicalTalesSims4MagicalTales Posts: 4,536 Member
    Meaningful Stories is a good mod for balancing out the emotions. As the comment above pointed out, the Sims in this iteration have this Stepford vibe.
  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 6,000 Member
    God, I agree completely. Part of the problem is that the game is set up to keep Sims in a Happy state. The default emotion is actually "Happy", not "Fine", which was a very bad decision. Sims should always default to a neutral state so that the player can decide the fate of their mood. Also, a Sim can just eat a good meal and get a happy buff. Like, why? If they were a Foodie or a Glutton, this would make perfect sense. But why is it a thing for all Sims? And the "nicely decorated" buff makes me bat-spit crazy. Again, why isn't that buff reserved for Sims with the proper traits, like Materialistic?

    I can't stand the "happy simulator" aspect of this game. It makes for very dull gameplay.
  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,559 Member
    I agree, I've never been a fan of the way the happy emotion was implemented in the game. If Sims have to stay in the happy emotion all of the time, fine, at least get rid of the ear to ear smile. At any rate, IMHO, the fine emotion is super underused.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    God, I agree completely. Part of the problem is that the game is set up to keep Sims in a Happy state. The default emotion is actually "Happy", not "Fine", which was a very bad decision. Sims should always default to a neutral state so that the player can decide the fate of their mood. Also, a Sim can just eat a good meal and get a happy buff. Like, why? If they were a Foodie or a Glutton, this would make perfect sense. But why is it a thing for all Sims? And the "nicely decorated" buff makes me bat-spit crazy. Again, why isn't that buff reserved for Sims with the proper traits, like Materialistic?

    I can't stand the "happy simulator" aspect of this game. It makes for very dull gameplay.
    I think that is why I like the rags to riches game play the most and tend to keep Sims in the rags direction because the nicely decorated buff is way too strong for the game especially with all the other positive buffs in the game with the tea and the Plumbob lights and MySims dolls. It is like having a poorly designed MMO game with all the buffs in the world, but not enough debuffs to make the game too easy to play when battling a boss, so kind of makes the challenge of the boss not fun knowing everyone else can beat it easily. Not sure if that makes sense.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • texxx78texxx78 Posts: 5,655 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    God, I agree completely. Part of the problem is that the game is set up to keep Sims in a Happy state. The default emotion is actually "Happy", not "Fine", which was a very bad decision. Sims should always default to a neutral state so that the player can decide the fate of their mood. Also, a Sim can just eat a good meal and get a happy buff. Like, why? If they were a Foodie or a Glutton, this would make perfect sense. But why is it a thing for all Sims? And the "nicely decorated" buff makes me bat-spit crazy. Again, why isn't that buff reserved for Sims with the proper traits, like Materialistic?

    I can't stand the "happy simulator" aspect of this game. It makes for very dull gameplay.

    I totally agree with you! Moodlets should be related to traits. The way it is now it becomes dull for sure! Never felt like this on 20 years of siming! Ive really tried to enjoy this game. Ive tried for 4 years. But i can't if this can't be fixed :( i'm recently back to sims 3 because of this. And im happy cause, with a more capable computer, im really enjoying it without any lagging, which is the only complain i had of it.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,502 Member
    edited January 2020
    The reasons I ever played any of these games are because of the Sim. Not the worlds, not the things to do, not the food, not anything else but the Sim. If you can't stand the Sim then you know what you have to do. You have to stop playing the game where you can't stand the Sim and start playing the game where you can stand the Sim or at least tolerate. It's why so many returned to TS2 or TS3 and stopped playing TS4. If the Sim doesn't cut the muster then there really is no point in playing. Even TS1 Sims are more believable (without any facial expressions) than this game.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • TOLKIENTOLKIEN Posts: 1,582 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    The reasons I ever played any of these games are because of the Sim. Not the worlds, not the things to do, not the food, not anything else but the Sim. If you can't stand the Sim then you know what you have to do. You have to stop playing the game where you can't stand the Sim and start playing the game where you can stand the Sim or at least tolerate. It's why so many returned to TS2 or TS3 and stopped playing TS4. If the Sim doesn't cut the muster then there really is no point in playing. Even TS1 Sims are more believable (without any facial expressions) than this game.

    While I understand your point, this is something that CAN be fixed at a coding level. Its not a foundation aka permanent aspect that can't be change and to that point as has been clearly demonstrated people would like Maxis to make this change. Its in their power, lots of us do enjoy the Sims 4. I also enjoy the sims 3, but like 4 there are things I wish didn't exist/I could change about 3.

    As they are working on 4 still and updating/making changes/additions this seems like a perfect moment to address community feedback and make their game even better.
  • texxx78texxx78 Posts: 5,655 Member
    edited January 2020
    @Tolkien i hope that happens. A deep overhaul on sims personality. I have almost all dlc and i like very much it's content. It's the only thing laking to me. But it's a big thing :(
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,502 Member
    TOLKIEN wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    The reasons I ever played any of these games are because of the Sim. Not the worlds, not the things to do, not the food, not anything else but the Sim. If you can't stand the Sim then you know what you have to do. You have to stop playing the game where you can't stand the Sim and start playing the game where you can stand the Sim or at least tolerate. It's why so many returned to TS2 or TS3 and stopped playing TS4. If the Sim doesn't cut the muster then there really is no point in playing. Even TS1 Sims are more believable (without any facial expressions) than this game.

    While I understand your point, this is something that CAN be fixed at a coding level. Its not a foundation aka permanent aspect that can't be change and to that point as has been clearly demonstrated people would like Maxis to make this change. Its in their power, lots of us do enjoy the Sims 4. I also enjoy the sims 3, but like 4 there are things I wish didn't exist/I could change about 3.

    As they are working on 4 still and updating/making changes/additions this seems like a perfect moment to address community feedback and make their game even better.

    They aren't ever going to change this one. This is the animators' work. Do you really expect them to remove an animation having to do with facial expressions? Something that is baked into the core game deep in the animations? This is the sixth year of TS4, it's like spitting into the wind, as much as I dislike the joker grin, I don't think they will ever tone it down, or stop them from doing it since it's part of an animation. It's four years since the situanational outfit problems spread through the game, they aren't going to fix that, either.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • TOLKIENTOLKIEN Posts: 1,582 Member
    edited January 2020
    Cinebar wrote: »

    They aren't ever going to change this one. This is the animators' work. Do you really expect them to remove an animation having to do with facial expressions? Something that is baked into the core game deep in the animations? This is the sixth year of TS4, it's like spitting into the wind, as much as I dislike the joker grin, I don't think they will ever tone it down, or stop them from doing it since it's part of an animation. It's four years since the situanational outfit problems spread through the game, they aren't going to fix that, either.

    Um....what? Animations are updated and created constantly not only for the sims 4 but most games in general. Its part of game development and maintenance, its what art team is paid to do and all they do. Art teams have down time too. As the animation already exists, tweaking an animation is REALLY easy once you know what you want, its more the time it takes to alter it and add any new frames into it speaking as an artist myself.

    Regardless your point that its been six years is more relevant to this, but hey if you don't ask and keep asking nothing changes. So I'll keep asking and clearly I'm not the only one.

    Doing nothing achieves nothing lol.

    As the for outfits comment, we had a huge swath of bug fixes over the last few patches in 2019 that addressed bugs that literally had been around since the games release or years that followed.

    So clearly they do fix things, it just takes time.

    The situational outfits is a little more complex though, less a bug and more a gameplay mechanic that needs to be rethought which is more complicated. I'm not saying it won't be fixed for that reason, but ALL games have issues.
  • xitneverendssxitneverendss Posts: 1,771 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    I really liked Zerbu's mod that uncomfortable buffs the negative traits. But I agree Sims smile too much, it has a Stepford robot vibe to it and sometimes it is hard to tell which Sims are possessed or not because of it. I would like emotions to be closer to how Inside Out handles it than how the Sims 4 handles them. It is a bit more complex and has the fear emotions which I badly wish the Sims had. But yeah sad when Disney can do emotions better given how kid friendly it is.
    inside_out_emotions-03.png

    Man, I wish the Sims team would have done something similar to this. The constantly smiling and the lack of unique sims and emotions have been a struggle in my enjoyment in this game from the beginning. I need 4 different personality mods in this game alone to make the game even somewhat enjoyable for me.

    While we may all experience the same emotions generally, we certainly don't portray them in the exact same ways. Every embarrassed sim wants to hide under the covers or tell a self deprecating joke. Every sad sim wants to call another sim or the sadness hotline. Happy sims want to hug someone. This is a major way in which the emotions system falls flat, imo.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,502 Member
    They don't need to look any further than the Cheerful Sim, that is the one that will keep the joker grin all day long no matter what happens. Even during a death. It is the Sim trait that makes them keep that overly wide grin. I tested this way back in 2014 and it is the one that should be removed or changed to a different animation or toned down.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • ListentoToppDoggListentoToppDogg Posts: 2,103 Member
    The emotions are way too exaggerated for my liking most of the time. I really wish they'd tone this down for most sims, and leave the extreme emotions for sims with traits like hot headed and gloomy.
  • Simmer_chiyenSimmer_chiyen Posts: 347 Member
    I’ve been advocating for an overhaul to the Emotions System, like, two or more years ago. In my opinion, one of the simpler ways to “correct” the overpowering happy emotion is to go over every moodlet and change most of the Happy moodlets to Fine ones.

    To lay it out further, cancel the mechanic of Happy strengthening other positive emotions and make it a stand-alone emotion. “Fine” should be the base emotion, so I suggest most of the Happy moodlets that we have now (e.g., Have a Good Meal, Decorated, Cozy Fire, etc.) should be changed into Fine. And the points of the positive and negative moodlets should be increased to make Fine not overpowering.

    I believe by doing this, the constant happy issue can be solved, and the emotional flip-flopping could be alleviated.
  • bethyGracebethyGrace Posts: 709 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    I really liked Zerbu's mod that uncomfortable buffs the negative traits. But I agree Sims smile too much, it has a Stepford robot vibe to it and sometimes it is hard to tell which Sims are possessed or not because of it. I would like emotions to be closer to how Inside Out handles it than how the Sims 4 handles them. It is a bit more complex and has the fear emotions which I badly wish the Sims had. But yeah sad when Disney can do emotions better given how kid friendly it is.
    inside_out_emotions-03.png

    Stop the press. This diagram is AMAZING. What do you mean.

    Sims team, pay attention??

    I love this.
  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,559 Member
    edited January 2020
    I’ve been advocating for an overhaul to the Emotions System, like, two or more years ago. In my opinion, one of the simpler ways to “correct” the overpowering happy emotion is to go over every moodlet and change most of the Happy moodlets to Fine ones.

    To lay it out further, cancel the mechanic of Happy strengthening other positive emotions and make it a stand-alone emotion. “Fine” should be the base emotion, so I suggest most of the Happy moodlets that we have now (e.g., Have a Good Meal, Decorated, Cozy Fire, etc.) should be changed into Fine. And the points of the positive and negative moodlets should be increased to make Fine not overpowering.

    I believe by doing this, the constant happy issue can be solved, and the emotional flip-flopping could be alleviated.

    Yeah, I agree with this. I also think Sims shouldn't be stuck to the happy emotion if all of their needs are met -- that could be changed to simply being in the fine emotion.

    As far as emotion flip-flopping, I don't know if it's something they'd really change. I mean, it makes sense that our emotions change multiple times within the span of 3 hours. The thing that makes it seem as if they're unstable is the fact that a lot of us play in double or triple speed, so that translates to emotions changing numerous times within seconds. So from a realism standpoint, it makes sense, but from a gameplay standpoint, it doesn't whatsoever, and it's a nuisance.

    I hope the next Sims game is built with more focus on the gameplay and ensuring things make sense from a gameplay point of view. There is a distinct lack of game design in The Sims 4, and I don't know if it stems from conceptualization or poor Q&A. If I had to guess, I'd say both.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    I’ve been advocating for an overhaul to the Emotions System, like, two or more years ago. In my opinion, one of the simpler ways to “correct” the overpowering happy emotion is to go over every moodlet and change most of the Happy moodlets to Fine ones.

    To lay it out further, cancel the mechanic of Happy strengthening other positive emotions and make it a stand-alone emotion. “Fine” should be the base emotion, so I suggest most of the Happy moodlets that we have now (e.g., Have a Good Meal, Decorated, Cozy Fire, etc.) should be changed into Fine. And the points of the positive and negative moodlets should be increased to make Fine not overpowering.

    I believe by doing this, the constant happy issue can be solved, and the emotional flip-flopping could be alleviated.

    Yeah, I agree with this. I also think Sims shouldn't be stuck to the happy emotion if all of their needs are met -- that could be changed to simply being in the fine emotion.

    As far as emotion flip-flopping, I don't know if it's something they'd really change. I mean, it makes sense that our emotions change multiple times within the span of 3 hours. The thing that makes it seem as if they're unstable is the fact that a lot of us play in double or triple speed, so that translates to emotions changing numerous times within seconds. So from a realism standpoint, it makes sense, but from a gameplay standpoint, it doesn't whatsoever, and it's a nuisance.

    I hope the next Sims game is built with more focus on the gameplay and ensuring things make sense from a gameplay point of view. There is a distinct lack of game design in The Sims 4, and I don't know if it stems from conceptualization or poor Q&A. If I had to guess, I'd say both.
    I never play on double speed and I still feel emotions ‘flip-flop’. The problem for me is that the reason the emotion changes hardly ever seems to make sense. I play with a friendly vampire, I try to take it from there and all of a sudden she’s angry. For no apparent reason (than some aura, obviously). When I have a sim in 3 that feels fine and suddenly looks mad or disgusted, I get triggered. It’s always interesting. Moodlets then tell me someone’s cheating nearby, or the sink is dirty. In Sims 4 it seems to me the reason why a sim feels an emotion is inferior to that they feel an emotion. And I care about the why.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • BabykittyjadeBabykittyjade Posts: 4,374 Member
    I really wish fine was the default.as a story teller the smiles do me in :s . Plus I notice emotions sometimes have no reason for them. Like hotheaded sims get constantly angry but without a reason. Just because they are hotheads. And I'm like 😑😑😑are you angry AGAIN for no reason?
    Zombies, oh please oh please give us zombies!! :'(
  • PeralPeral Posts: 749 Member
    Aneutral facial expression should be the default setting, that can in turn be interpretated by the viewer who reads in the emotion he/she thinks the situation demands.
  • 83bienchen83bienchen Posts: 2,066 Member
    There are actually two different problems discussed here.

    One is Sims constantly beeing in a happy mood (which can be changed by using mods like RoBurky's True Happiness mod or any happybuffschangedtofine mod (e.g. http://modthesims.info/download.php?t=579603 and if one wants to go even further additionally lesshappyfoodanddrink and/or laundy buffs fix)

    The other one are overtoned facial expressions (which has already been discussed in this thread
    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/822154/please-adjust-the-ear-to-ear-happy-smile/p1
    can be fixed by using mods like Shimrods Facial Overlay mod
    http://modthesims.info/download.php?t=574482
    or a similar mod like my lessfacialoveraction
    https://deichschafblog.de/bienchen/sonstige-mods-misc-mods/)
    Thank you, EA, for patching toddlers in.

    My TS4 mods

    Gallery ID: 83bienchen
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,997 Member
    How is it that modders can make such fine fixes but we haven’t seen anything from the devs in regards to this situation? 🤔
    wB2Zykl.jpg
  • xitneverendssxitneverendss Posts: 1,771 Member
    83bienchen wrote: »
    There are actually two different problems discussed here.

    One is Sims constantly beeing in a happy mood (which can be changed by using mods like RoBurky's True Happiness mod or any happybuffschangedtofine mod (e.g. http://modthesims.info/download.php?t=579603 and if one wants to go even further additionally lesshappyfoodanddrink and/or laundy buffs fix)

    The other one are overtoned facial expressions (which has already been discussed in this thread
    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/822154/please-adjust-the-ear-to-ear-happy-smile/p1
    can be fixed by using mods like Shimrods Facial Overlay mod
    http://modthesims.info/download.php?t=574482
    or a similar mod like my lessfacialoveraction
    https://deichschafblog.de/bienchen/sonstige-mods-misc-mods/)

    So we are just supposed to rely on the modding community to fix every shortfall this game has? I don't think so...this also doesn't help people who refuse or simply don't like to use mods in their game.
  • BrittanyChick22BrittanyChick22 Posts: 2,129 Member
    They have that joker smile that can look very unnatural a lot of times. The probably is that sims don't have much of personality in game and a lot of traits are simply just for show to make the player think they have personality. The forced smile is once again made to make the player believe their sims is feeling something when they aren't. In sims 3 and 2 we didn't need over the top smiles or auras to produce emotions out the sims, they were simply just there thanks to the point or trait system. Another thing I noticed is people complained about sims looking lifeless in the face in 3, they weren't lifeless they were realistic. People tend to forget that everyone has a resting face and that no one is smiling or frowning 24/7. This is why Ea felt the need to plaster that we happy few smiled on sim as way to get around actually giving sims in depth personality system that mix, match, and over lap each other and executed the right way.
    giphy.gif


  • ronhronh Posts: 11 New Member
    The smiling is not nearly as annoying as the every-3-second high-pitched "ha" that some sims have. Penny Pizzazz, I think, is one of those sims that has to be banished or altered.
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