Emotions and personality overhaul for Sims 4 is NEEDED.

TOLKIENTOLKIEN Posts: 1,387 Member
edited January 21 in The Sims 4 Game Feedback
I've been kind of bouncing back and forth between Sims 3 and 4 and whats become very apparent to me (is even with traits) the sims really have no unique personalities in the Sims 4 that make them stand apart from one another.

Personalities can be defined by emotions yes, but its not enough in the Sims 4 (as they work now) and honestly the emotional system is kind of annoying to manipulate especially from a story tellers (point of view) because their emotions are like some crazy roller coaster. Constantly flipping and changing from one state to another within minutes. Happy face, sad face, pouting face, straight face, happy face. Emotional states should last longer then that.

As for traits in the Sims 4, they feel like bonus or handicaps for sims, rather then defining elements of them.

So I read a few other posts and such of people complaining about the emotion system and was thinking of how it could be overhauled at this stage without requiring a complete re-write of coding. As well to keep currently players who are happy with it, happy.

My solution/suggest would be be found in create a sim, in the same way you pick a sims walk style you pick from 3 basic states for your sims emotions. Adding traits that effect their emotions to the below would further make them stand apart.

1. Non-emotional, straight faced. Your sim doesn't react to much and takes a lot to get an emotional reaction out of them.
2. Normal, similar to the current level of Sims emotions as it is now, BUT toned down just slightly so that emotional states last a little longer.
3. Highly emotional. The roller coaster of emotions is back, these sims react fast and furious to outside and inside stimuli.

One thing I'd do regardless is have emotional states last longer and not be so easily effected by player choice so quickly. Right now I get that its needed because they so easily pout, but if you get a sim into an angry mood then he should remain angry for a while. If he's happy then he should be happy for a while. Not insta-click changed. If they are in a happy mood and something slightly bad happens then its a sliding scale of happy. Not insta-pouting.

Speaking of pouting, wow like are all these sims so fragile as one single wrong choice makes them feel bad and pout about it? Like seriously do they need to express their feelings like they are talking to a therapist over every little thing that happens to them? Talk about easily triggered - except that COULD be a trait you could add. Honestly this is really the whole emotional system right now, they are SO easily triggered between emotional states that its often times annoying and more so removes any type of personality when all Sims are governed by the same system.

I also feel more needs to be done to define personalities and contrast between sims, which could relate to relationship stuff such as compatibility or heck even zodiac signs like in past sims.

I don't know if they'd bother tweaking it at this time, emotions but if they plan to keep supporting it into the next few years I feel this system needs an upgrade of polish. Especially if they want to keep evolving it like other service games do.

Comments

  • CynnaCynna Posts: 2,011 Member
    edited January 21
    I agree with a lot of what you wrote. I have a really stoic Sim in my story. However, it's very hard to depict him as he is meant to be. He keeps smiling or opening his eyes really wide in a doll-like way. If I try to make him appear sterner, he goes OTT in the opposite direction -- Mr. Potato Head angry eyes, clenched fists, and a stance as if he's about to pounce. Put him into a conversation with someone and he's instantly easy going, smiling and googly-eyed again.

    It would be great if I could use traits to determine how he acts in any given situation. However, traits are mostly empty and broken.

    The good news is that there are many mods to help with the issue. The bad news is that the developers never thought to tackle these issues until now, TS4's sixth year. EA recently conducted a survey which is basically a dream come true if any of those features come to fruition in a meaningful way. Yet, when those official fixes will arrive and if they will work as advertised is anyone's guess. I'm sorry to say that TS4 has been a masterclass in great ideas that are never fully realized.
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  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,929 Member
    edited January 21
    I think the very reason I still play Sims 3 and not Sims 4 anymore, at the end of the day, comes down to this. I once created a male sim, a real grim looking fellow (in TS4). I put him in my game and literally right away his eyebrows went to the roof and he had this weird smile I didn’t give him and he wasn’t meant to have it either. No bug has ever made me rage quit. This did. I was done right there and then. If I can’t even decide my sim’s character(istics), what’s the fun.
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  • telmarinatelmarina Posts: 1,900 Member
    Choosing specific traits should have a real impact on sims. I think this would change a lot in the game. Not sure if it's possible now to implement but it's a bad thing if it isn't. For instance, i only notice that my sim is a nature lover when he gets (one more) happy moodlet when he's out. I wish he would go do something out autonomosly often. A mean sim goes smiling and making friends all the time. And so on...
  • PeralPeral Posts: 82 Member
    A neutral expression would be valuable, since then the one looking at the sims can read in whatever emotion he/she Think the Sim is feeling. The normal emotion now seems to be happy, which is hard to deal with in a dramatic situation.
  • CamkatCamkat Posts: 1,453 Member
    I like these ideas. I hope they do mean to fix it in some way if that survey was a hint to their intentions. While they are fixing traits and emotions, they could maybe turn down the autonomy for some of these emotions or make it so during a situation or event they just don't do it. Example, my sim was at her wedding party this morning. In her wedding excitement she became energized. Fine. Dropping to do push ups, IN her wedding dress outside of the "church"... NOT FINE. I quit the game then. Like how hard is it during an event to maybe just turn that off? Do I have to turn off free will completely to not have my immersion destroyed by ridiculous acts like this? The game didn't care that it was a wedding event and that action would be highly inappropriate, especially for the bride at this time, it just saw an emotion and what happens when sims are energized? They do push ups. Active, couch potato, mean, jealous, creative. They ALL do push ups when energized and regardless of the locations or things happening around them. Traits don't change anything or affect it in any way and it really should.

    I'm all for silly, that's what I loved about past sims games, but this isn't silly, it's just plain stupid.
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  • ChadSims2ChadSims2 Posts: 3,596 Member
    I completely agree it all needs a overhaul and they need to find room in their budget to make actual unique animations and behaviors for traits not just rename them.
    Sims 4 went from "You Rule" to "One of the stories we want you to tell"
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 18,370 Member
    I know @SimGuruGraham was talking about the neutral state for a bit, so tagging him. Also curious what @SimGuruLyndsay and @SimGuruNinja would think of this. I do think the trait buffs are a bit too weak and the environment buffs as much as I hate nerfing needs to be toned down.
    "The Sneetches got really quite smart on that day. The day they decided that Sneetches are Sneetches. And no kind of Sneetch is the best on the beaches. That day, all the Sneetches forgot about stars and whether they had one, or not, upon thars." -Dr. Seuss

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  • telmarinatelmarina Posts: 1,900 Member
    Please Gurus, address this 🙏🙏🙏
    Make our sims unique again!
    This is killing replayabillity...
  • TOLKIENTOLKIEN Posts: 1,387 Member
    I suppose if you wanted to play devils advocate, the designers might hold this emotional system in high regard and can't imagine changing it. I remember back a couple years during a developers conference, the Sims 4 team presented how they developed the emotion system (as a big achievement) to other developers and very proud of it.

    I'll agree it was an accomplishment, but its also become very clear that more then emotions are needed to simulate a sim as unique.
  • FelicityFelicity Posts: 4,510 Member
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    I’m convinced they haven’t adjusted emotions after six years of this game because this is how they envision and intend the emotion system to work. And, personally, I think it’s a big flop of a system.

    My Sims from The Sims 2 are far more intelligent, expressive, and believable than these Sims. It’s far more fun to interact with them and tell their stories. And I actually feel they develop their personalities as I play with them more throughout their whole lifespan.

    Really, that’s what I look for the most in a Sims game aside from accruing wealth and success from my Sims. A ever-changing personality system which realistically portrays diverse Sims, adapting to how I direct their lives.

    You know, I'm not sure that this was the way they intended them to work -- the early trailers showed a vastly more robust system which just didn't pan out.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,929 Member
    TOLKIEN wrote: »
    I suppose if you wanted to play devils advocate, the designers might hold this emotional system in high regard and can't imagine changing it. I remember back a couple years during a developers conference, the Sims 4 team presented how they developed the emotion system (as a big achievement) to other developers and very proud of it.

    I'll agree it was an accomplishment, but its also become very clear that more then emotions are needed to simulate a sim as unique.
    It would have been an accomplishment if they wouldn’t have tied them to objects and if traits in any way would have had an influence. The way they’ve done it however was awkwardly one dimensional and simple.
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  • bethyGracebethyGrace Posts: 707 Member
    edited January 27
    TOLKIEN wrote: »

    Personalities can be defined by emotions yes, but its not enough in the Sims 4 (as they work now) and honestly the emotional system is kind of annoying to manipulate especially from a story tellers (point of view) because their emotions are like some crazy roller coaster. Constantly flipping and changing from one state to another within minutes. Happy face, sad face, pouting face, straight face, happy face. Emotional states should last longer then that.

    As for traits in the Sims 4, they feel like bonus or handicaps for sims, rather then defining elements of them.

    Preach ***raises hands***

    I like your suggestions. Some people IRL are actual emotional potatoes and others are basket-cases, and it would be good to see that in-game.

    I agree in that I don't think they could ever do away with the emotions system, but it can and should be expanded upon and enhanced, made more realistic (by having more negative emotions, for one thing), and personalities should be deeper in terms of autonomy tuning, and potential interactions in the game.

    If I have a music Sim, and they are sad, I don't want their sadness whim to be "call the sadness hotline", I want it to be "play out feelings on the piano" or something like that. "Sing a sad song" maybe. Or if they are an environmentalist, they should want to "go for a walk in nature" to cheer themselves up. If they love to swim, they should want to take a trip to the beach. I do have some very useful mods for making the emotions system more realistic, but it would be nice if those mods were to become obsolete.

    Traits in the game don't go deep enough... And thats where I feel an interests system should be implemented so they actually have things they like to do and to talk about, and things they dont like to to or talk about. And their interests can play into the emotions system - at it's most basic, doing things they like makes them happy and doing things they don't like makes them sad or angry. Boom.

    They could also add emotional intelligence to the game, as a "character value" like those they added in Parenthood. So Sims who grew up with poor emotional intelligence are more likely to get angry, act out, fight, be mean, and kind of "reinforce" their bad mood if they have a negative moodlet or two, whereas Sims with higher emotional intelligence may be more likely to deal with their negative emotions in a healthy way by seeking to change their mood, engage in hobbies or connect with friends / loved ones. Could be cool? Or I guess they could use the "empathy" wheel we already have, that could almost work.

    **Edit - they could also improve their emotional intelligence as adults by having to go to therapy, or read books or something??**

    Personalityyyyyyyyyyyyyy please.
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    I’m convinced they haven’t adjusted emotions after six years of this game because this is how they envision and intend the emotion system to work. And, personally, I think it’s a big flop of a system.

    My Sims from The Sims 2 are far more intelligent, expressive, and believable than these Sims. It’s far more fun to interact with them and tell their stories. And I actually feel they develop their personalities as I play with them more throughout their whole lifespan.

    Really, that’s what I look for the most in a Sims game aside from accruing wealth and success from my Sims. A ever-changing personality system which realistically portrays diverse Sims, adapting to how I direct their lives.

    Yep, and that's because they actually have things that they want, and DON'T want. You can tell "their" stories rather than telling "your" story, if that makes sense. They actually have a personality. And of course, you can still tell "your" story if you want to, if you make their personality suit. The system was much more robust, and had much greater replayability, because everything had impact, meaning, and could turn out differently time and time again.

    I've seen a lot of players say they get bored of The Sims 4, or while playing it, quite easily. I feel that the lack of character depth is partially to blame for that, and should be addressed before the devs try to add more vacation destinations or resort running or whatever else they want to do. Less fluff, more meat please!
  • NushnushganayNushnushganay Posts: 4,432 Member
    Great reading all these perspectives. Yes, the insane over-emotional quick changes are unsettling. Makes the Sims seem like creepy fleshsuit androids with a hitch in the get-along. "Thank You For Riding JohhnyCab!"
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  • thecatsredthecatsred Posts: 293 Member
    I have a sim who is meant to have a stone face until he smiles, which scares most everyone away. However he's constantly smiling and never looks intimidating, so like... what was the point of him.
  • AnthonydyerAnthonydyer Posts: 1,093 Member
    I've always been frustrated with the emotion system. My speculation is there was such an emphasis on emotions that everything else got neglected. I think sims 3 has a really good trait system going. It makes each sim distinct. I noticed that in TS3, traits influence behaviors. In ts4, traits merely effect emotions. I also find that ts4 traits are way too general. In the short run, ts4 needs more traits.

    In the long run (TS5), I would like to see a hybrid between TS3 and TS4. There should be some kind of emotion system going on, but I think it needs to be scaled back somewhat. Bring personalities forward.
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  • OldeseadoggeOldeseadogge Posts: 2,662 Member
    Eveyone, regardless of personality type, has emotions. They are not the core but the response to what is happening and come out of the personality. A stoic is going to respond differently to a given stimulus than someone who is exciteable. Personality for sims should be done more like TS2 does it, with layers of factors, not just 3 on or off 'traits'. Traits should have ranges/degrees of presence, not just yes or no. People are complex creatures, and sims should mirror that, not be ambulatory shells utterly dependent on objects.
  • SimsLovinLycanSimsLovinLycan Posts: 1,689 Member
    edited February 5
    I like the idea of being able to decide how stoic or emotional your sim is in CAS! I'd like to suggest maybe a slider for that, like the TS2 personality sliders as another way it could be handled.

    I'm also in favor of making negative emotions stronger and either toning down the strength or capping the amount of Happy moodlets your sim can get from environmental sources, or having Uncomfortable enhance other negative emotions like Happy enhances the positive ones to balance out the system between the two types of emotions. Positive emotions, on the whole, just have too much power in this game, even for sims with traits that predispose them to getting random negative moodlets like Hotheaded and Gloomy.
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  • Clk1143Clk1143 Posts: 1,011 Member
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    I’m convinced they haven’t adjusted emotions after six years of this game because this is how they envision and intend the emotion system to work. And, personally, I think it’s a big flop of a system.

    My Sims from The Sims 2 are far more intelligent, expressive, and believable than these Sims. It’s far more fun to interact with them and tell their stories. And I actually feel they develop their personalities as I play with them more throughout their whole lifespan.

    Really, that’s what I look for the most in a Sims game aside from accruing wealth and success from my Sims. A ever-changing personality system which realistically portrays diverse Sims, adapting to how I direct their lives.

    Yup sims2 had more emotions and individuality it seemed like to me as well. I still play sims2 because I do at times miss making the stories part of the sims. It's also a big reason why sims3 wasn't one of my favorites of the series.
  • xamira99xamira99 Posts: 2,834 Member
    We've been talking about this for ages! I don't understand why this is not in their top priority list. TBH, I could wait for another pack to be released as long as the personality, emotion, etc. are going to be overhauled. Sometimes, I nearly run out of my patience. What do they mean by play with life? Are they suggesting that the Sims just needs to be obedient & follow our rules, like, "Hey, this is your SO, just live with him/her & let me continue with your legacy..." or "Hey Sims, just wear this because this colour & style suits you well"

    How I wish that the interaction between Simmers & their Sims are more dynamic instead of one way. I'm not surprised why my Sims standing still most of the times. They are going to rebel! :s
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  • OldeseadoggeOldeseadogge Posts: 2,662 Member
    xamira99 wrote: »
    We've been talking about this for ages! I don't understand why this is not in their top priority list. TBH, I could wait for another pack to be released as long as the personality, emotion, etc. are going to be overhauled. Sometimes, I nearly run out of my patience. What do they mean by play with life? Are they suggesting that the Sims just needs to be obedient & follow our rules, like, "Hey, this is your SO, just live with him/her & let me continue with your legacy..." or "Hey Sims, just wear this because this colour & style suits you well"

    How I wish that the interaction between Simmers & their Sims are more dynamic instead of one way. I'm not surprised why my Sims standing still most of the times. They are going to rebel! :s

    In TS2 sims will let you know how they feel about things you tell them. Doesn't matter if its house furnishings, something you want them to do, or an appearance change via a mirror - they let you know, clearly, from 'yeah!' to 'no way!' The looks some of my sims have given me...
  • MinaiMinai Posts: 540 Member
    I LOVED the sims 3.
    I can only play 4 though because I lost all my ts3 disc in a move.
    I really wish there were certain things sims could do pertaining to their personality.
    I also wish we could pick more than 3 traits!
  • TOLKIENTOLKIEN Posts: 1,387 Member
    Minai wrote: »
    I LOVED the sims 3.
    I can only play 4 though because I lost all my ts3 disc in a move.
    I really wish there were certain things sims could do pertaining to their personality.
    I also wish we could pick more than 3 traits!

    Did you ever register it within the game launcher? You must have at some point if you ever used the exchange and if so Sims 3 should be playable via the Origin client. You could definitely contact support and see if they have a CD key registered to your EA account and have them activate it on Origin if thats an issue, although it should self activate...
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