So many comments on bunk beds being to difficult to implement in a stuff pack... Makes me wonder about the work a murphy bed takes. I mean that bed also needs new animations, coding because it works differently from normal beds and let's not forget a new death type. If they can pull off all this for a stuff pack object, I would expect bunk beds to be possible too if they are the main gameplay object. But judging by the twitter posted above, my assumption is wrong and there is a huge difference in complexity of these two types of beds. I clearly don't understand much about sims 4 coding. Too bad, I would have preferred bunk beds over the murphy bed.
Ok they say bunk beds are difficult to implement in a SP and all but what about ladders? I mean, we already have the animation for that in IL, what's so difficult? What about cooktops or built-in microwaves? They don't even need new animations.
There's no excuse for the tiny amount of content in this pack.
I'm sorry but @SimGuruNinja this is your job!? You're getting paid for it! As a student I can't go to my exams unprepared because it was "to difficult" to revise and except having a diploma. I'm tired of this world where mediocrity became "normal".
As a student, you have only 24 hours a day to study in; you can't fit 26 hours of studying into that time. You have 2 or 3 hours to write an exam; you can't write a 4-hour exam in that time, and you'd surely be upset if you were expected to and told it's your fault if you can't finish the exam properly in that time.
Nobody has every said that bunk beds are too difficult to do. They've said that they can't fit that difficulty level in a stuff pack.
Still it's their job! They had 2 packs where they could implement them and didn't. Parenthood and University. That's pure laziness I'm sorry everybody with decent reasoning can see it. They have time to add extra things we don't want and nobody cares about but not for what we're asking for since day 1. I'm sorry, I have a brain, I'm not buying that.
Plus "student'' was just an example, maybe not the best one but anyway it's the same for EVERY job. When you got a job, you gotta do it right!
We got other things instead with those packs. Like school projects and robotics. Why they are prioritizing them over bunk beds is probably based on a number of factors, how easy they are to implement, which people that are working on it and the time and money they have available.
I think the gurus are completely honest. The reason why bunk beds have not been added yet is because they are difficult to make in the sims4 engine. It's probably related to how the game was built from the beginning. If I have to guess, the game was probably not built for that kind of elevation with two sims. Adding them would probably require time, it's possible that we could have gotten bunk beds with University for example, but then we would not have gotten robotics, something that I suspect an entirely different team worked on.
I feel that Maxis could use more people working on the game engine and also a larger budget but it is also possible that they would rather those people worked on other packs or maybe have them work on an entirely new game engine.
I'm sure there are people at Maxis that want bunk beds but this is probably what they are facing.
Still it's their job! They had 2 packs where they could implement them and didn't. Parenthood and University. That's pure laziness I'm sorry everybody with decent reasoning can see it. They have time to add extra things we don't want and nobody cares about but not for what we're asking for since day 1. I'm sorry, I have a brain, I'm not buying that.
Plus "student'' was just an example, maybe not the best one but anyway it's the same for EVERY job. When you got a job, you gotta do it right!
Speak for yourself. Plenty of simmers are enthused about this pack.
I think part of why people (myself included) get frustrated is we have high expectations of the devs. We have seen so many epic things over the course of the Sims series and when we are told they cannot manage to replicate some of them again it simply does not make sense to us. I do suspect that at least some of the issues are EA dictated time/money constraints rather than actual programming puzzle.
Still it's their job! They had 2 packs where they could implement them and didn't. Parenthood and University. That's pure laziness I'm sorry everybody with decent reasoning can see it. They have time to add extra things we don't want and nobody cares about but not for what we're asking for since day 1. I'm sorry, I have a brain, I'm not buying that.
Plus "student'' was just an example, maybe not the best one but anyway it's the same for EVERY job. When you got a job, you gotta do it right!
Speak for yourself. Plenty of simmers are enthused about this pack.
And plenty are not. Speak for yourself. This is crazy! Why are so many people complaining about TS4 at your opinion!? Because it is bad, we are not inventing problems, we are pointing them out. When there's a HUGE number of unhappy customers, it's maybe time to question yourself. People are not crazy complaining about something that has not problems. Pff, I don't have any words it's sick, really it's sick.
I'm sorry but @SimGuruNinja this is your job!? You're getting paid for it! As a student I can't go to my exams unprepared because it was "to difficult" to revise and except having a diploma. I'm tired of this world where mediocrity became "normal".
As a student, you have only 24 hours a day to study in; you can't fit 26 hours of studying into that time. You have 2 or 3 hours to write an exam; you can't write a 4-hour exam in that time, and you'd surely be upset if you were expected to and told it's your fault if you can't finish the exam properly in that time.
Nobody has every said that bunk beds are too difficult to do. They've said that they can't fit that difficulty level in a stuff pack.
Still it's their job! They had 2 packs where they could implement them and didn't. Parenthood and University. That's pure laziness I'm sorry everybody with decent reasoning can see it. They have time to add extra things we don't want and nobody cares about but not for what we're asking for since day 1. I'm sorry, I have a brain, I'm not buying that.
Plus "student'' was just an example, maybe not the best one but anyway it's the same for EVERY job. When you got a job, you gotta do it right!
We got other things instead with those packs. Like school projects and robotics. Why they are prioritizing them over bunk beds is probably based on a number of factors, how easy they are to implement, which people that are working on it and the time and money they have available.
I think the gurus are completely honest. The reason why bunk beds have not been added yet is because they are difficult to make in the sims4 engine. It's probably related to how the game was built from the beginning. If I have to guess, the game was probably not built for that kind of elevation with two sims. Adding them would probably require time, it's possible that we could have gotten bunk beds with University for example, but then we would not have gotten robotics, something that I suspect an entirely different team worked on.
I feel that Maxis could use more people working on the game engine and also a larger budget but it is also possible that they would rather those people worked on other packs or maybe have them work on an entirely new game engine.
I'm sure there are people at Maxis that want bunk beds but this is probably what they are facing.
I totally agree with you about the budget topic. I think there's not enough budget for TS4.
I think they have said that they plan to add bunk beds as a free update and for some reason they wanted to release this pack before they added them to the game. Seems odd to me, this pack would work so well with a bunk bed update, or a ladder or a spiral staircase update.
I guess they really wanted to release a stuff pack in January.
I ain't gonna lie but I miss them ladders.
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To me it seems like they’ve been scattering out the development of larger animations. Meaning, they’re breaking them up into different “chunks” across many packs so the development time for the final item isn’t so gargantuan. Ultimately, they link the smaller chunks together into one final chain animation further down the road.
For example, the knitting animation to wreck the DU statue is a small chunk of the final animation for actual knitting. The DU repo man will make one heck of a ghost hunter animation one day. Some packs tend to lack gameplay when it’s clear they are just “chunk makers” for later packs!
Also, a lot of people mention the IL ladders - but I think that jumping platform that either came with JA or GT where Simmies go higher than the ground is a potential chunk animation for bunk beds. When they say an object is “outside the scope of a pack” I think they might mean they have not yet finished the next required chunks needed to have the object ready.
I miss bunk beds, ladders, the all-in-one-bathroom, and (insert any other space saving items my old brain has forgotten to include lol), but I don't think I'm being lied to or purposefully mislead when the Gurus answer our questions as to why they haven't covered that content. They're trying to level with us the best they can and respond so we feel heard and informed. I don't think it's fair for people to fire back with accusations of laziness or ineptitude just because they don't like the answer they received.
@luthienrising had a good suggestion, and it honestly seems like the only constructive way to move forward to get what we want. If bunk beds are too much of a resource hog for the smaller packs, then it seems like a really good idea for them to be turned over to the developers that handle the free content updates. Tackling crazy huge projects seems to be their specialty, and it sounds like this is right up their alley. If they can implement gender updates, toddlers, pools, terrain, column extensions etc, then they can tackle bunk beds. It's a feature that should be in the base game, imo, so it's an appropriate task for that team.
@popstarissa I agree, it does seem like they're adding small animations in here and there that serve as starting points for further development in the future.
I'm sorry but @SimGuruNinja this is your job!? You're getting paid for it! As a student I can't go to my exams unprepared because it was "to difficult" to revise and except having a diploma. I'm tired of this world where mediocrity became "normal".
As a student, you have only 24 hours a day to study in; you can't fit 26 hours of studying into that time. You have 2 or 3 hours to write an exam; you can't write a 4-hour exam in that time, and you'd surely be upset if you were expected to and told it's your fault if you can't finish the exam properly in that time.
Nobody has every said that bunk beds are too difficult to do. They've said that they can't fit that difficulty level in a stuff pack.
Still it's their job! They had 2 packs where they could implement them and didn't. Parenthood and University. That's pure laziness I'm sorry everybody with decent reasoning can see it. They have time to add extra things we don't want and nobody cares about but not for what we're asking for since day 1. I'm sorry, I have a brain, I'm not buying that.
Plus "student'' was just an example, maybe not the best one but anyway it's the same for EVERY job. When you got a job, you gotta do it right!
Every job has limitations to what is possible to do and still produce a product on time and on budget (technical, time, and cost budgets) and still make something marketable in practice to a market you have researched. There is no such thing as unlimited resources to do a job in. It is not "laziness" to work within the resources you have. In fact, it is anything *but* laziness to account for resources and the like. It's laziness to *not* do that and then end up with a product you can't finish or sell.
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
I'm assuming at this point, for whatever reason, that given they didn't show up in DU, bunk beds simply aren't possible. I don't know why, but that's my conclusion.
It's kind of sad that I have to point out that anything I say is only just my opinion and may be a different one from someone else.
I don't understand why making bunk beds is so hard... they just have to do the top bunk and animate a sim going up the latter to the bed and sleep. I'm thinking they are worried about how multitasking would work on the top bunk, because sims can sit on the border of the beds in this iteration...but that's the thing, they just wouldn't be able to do that, they'd just go up and sleep. But.....the engineers at Maxis must have a better reason idk.
I suspect that it has something to do with implementing two Sims doing the same thing on the same tile or the alternative of creating a mid-storey "place" that hasn't existed yet. Maybe those were baked into previous base games somehow, but if they weren't with this one, then that becomes an issue later. Wouldn't mean it can't be done, but either of those would make the object require a good bit more developer time and be a bigger % of whatever pack it's in, so imagine cutting a *few* other objects + animations + build-type innovations in order to include this one, not just swapping out one. Figuring out how that doesn't make a GP or EP feel like a rip-off would be a challenge.
Personally, I now strongly believe that they should hand bunk beds over to the team that makes free content.
That's rather what I thought - that two Sims in the same tile area is a problem, and maybe it's always been that way, or maybe it's a special problem in S4.
As you and others have mentioned, there's a finite number of hours and other things to get done. (I suspect the same people complaining about bunk beds would be complaining about murphy beds if they'd done the reverse.) Personally, I don't care about bunk beds - if they're going to devote time to something, I'd rather it be game play than an object.
They can't fit within the scope of work for a stuff pack... but murphy beds with new animations and even a death can? Never mind every other stuff pack... they ALL have at least one new game play object. This seems like a super weak excuse.
I definitely agree on this one. With SPs especially it seems that they put the minimum amount of objects, CAS items, and animations for the highest profit. I understand the scope of priorities and limits, no doubt there, but I wonder if they value them as much as they do with GPs and EPs, when it comes to the versatility of included content. I'm trying to stay optimistic, though, and hope that they've got some aces up their sleeves. It's the only thing I can do five and a half years into the game. *Shrugs*
I'm sorry but @SimGuruNinja this is your job!? You're getting paid for it! As a student I can't go to my exams unprepared because it was "to difficult" to revise and except having a diploma. I'm tired of this world where mediocrity became "normal".
As a student, you have only 24 hours a day to study in; you can't fit 26 hours of studying into that time. You have 2 or 3 hours to write an exam; you can't write a 4-hour exam in that time, and you'd surely be upset if you were expected to and told it's your fault if you can't finish the exam properly in that time.
Nobody has every said that bunk beds are too difficult to do. They've said that they can't fit that difficulty level in a stuff pack.
Still it's their job! They had 2 packs where they could implement them and didn't. Parenthood and University. That's pure laziness I'm sorry everybody with decent reasoning can see it. They have time to add extra things we don't want and nobody cares about but not for what we're asking for since day 1. I'm sorry, I have a brain, I'm not buying that.
Plus "student'' was just an example, maybe not the best one but anyway it's the same for EVERY job. When you got a job, you gotta do it right!
Every job has limitations to what is possible to do and still produce a product on time and on budget (technical, time, and cost budgets) and still make something marketable in practice to a market you have researched. There is no such thing as unlimited resources to do a job in. It is not "laziness" to work within the resources you have. In fact, it is anything *but* laziness to account for resources and the like. It's laziness to *not* do that and then end up with a product you can't finish or sell.
Anyway you got my point. It's unbelievable to me that after 5 years they still haven't figured out how/where to impliment them. They had many packs where they could have implimented them. Missing such a basic object like that after 5 years is crazy! I won't respond now cause it's non-sense, you got my point, and that's it for me.
Been awhile. I think it is excuses they use and they have their own agenda for the way they want Sims 4 to be. I mean they voted on a community pack did they not? They have made bunk beds in the previous version. What about ladders? What is the excuses there? I usually watch and the read the forums and check for new things and such. But seriously no bunk beds or space saving items, but a Murphy bed? It is big and takes space regardless, not like when you fold it up ... you can use said space. Tiny living is about small things and downsizing ... making everything compact and useful. Bunk beds fits this not Murphy beds.
The scary thing is people defending their excuses or making excuses for them. They are developers, that is their job. Bunk beds are not a new invention to Sims. This is why we get no where with Sims 4 but a broken lacking game play game. People actually make excuses for these developers.
Been awhile. I think it is excuses they use and they have their own agenda for the way they want Sims 4 to be. I mean they voted on a community pack did they not? They have made bunk beds in the previous version. What about ladders? What is the excuses there? I usually watch and the read the forums and check for new things and such. But seriously no bunk beds or space saving items, but a Murphy bed? It is big and takes space regardless, not like when you fold it up ... you can use said space. Tiny living is about small things and downsizing ... making everything compact and useful. Bunk beds fits this not Murphy beds.
The scary thing is people defending their excuses or making excuses for them. They are developers, that is their job. Bunk beds are not a new invention to Sims. This is why we get no where with Sims 4 but a broken lacking game play game. People actually make excuses for these developers.
Exactly. I think EA might pay some people to always jump on negative feedbacks cause it's crazy. They could literally make a 10$ SP with a toilet and I'm sure some... people would jump on us if we complain.
Yeah this looks familiar.....this was soon as DU was about to release....you can't convince me this wasn't meant for DU!
Not even going to try and convince you because that would be a lost cause but I did want to mention that multiple packs are in development concurrently and SimGuruNinja posting a pic a month before release in no way 'proves' it was a feature intended for Discover University.
Yeah this looks familiar.....this was soon as DU was about to release....you can't convince me this wasn't meant for DU!
Not even going to try and convince you because that would be a lost cause but I did want to mention that multiple packs are in development concurrently and SimGuruNinja posting a pic a month before release in no way 'proves' it was a feature intended for Discover University.
I feel mean for laughing but where’s the lie 😂😂 You try and explain things to people and if it doesn’t fit their idea of how things are then it can’t possibly be true 🤦♀️
More than likely the next game pack and expansion pack are both being worked on at this moment because they’re separate teams.
Yeah this looks familiar.....this was soon as DU was about to release....you can't convince me this wasn't meant for DU!
Not even going to try and convince you because that would be a lost cause but I did want to mention that multiple packs are in development concurrently and SimGuruNinja posting a pic a month before release in no way 'proves' it was a feature intended for Discover University.
No need to convince me, unlike others I see through their lies and the games they play...
But I digress ... it'd be a lost cause for me to explain to you.
So let's agree to disagree.
@KaeChan2089 that’s annoying. There’s a ton of fun things in that concept art and we haven’t seen in the game yet. Slim countertop stove, toaster, under-counter laundro, small microwave. That’s the kind of stuff one would expect in a Tiny Living pack!
@KaeChan2089 that’s annoying. There’s a ton of fun things in that concept art and we haven’t seen in the game yet. Slim countertop stove, toaster, under-counter laundro, small microwave. That’s the kind of stuff one would expect in a Tiny Living pack!
Remember that Concept Arts are never consists of final nor planned features of the game. When the Developers said that they where going to create a say city living pack, it is an artist interpretation on what Apartments would look like, but it doesn't mean that everything on the concept art was planned. I mean by looking at the Stuff Pack vote, the Concept Arts was created very early in the game even when they are yet to plan a certain gameplay object for the pack. However in Concept art, it is unlimited for the artist to draw whatever objects he/she likes as long as it fits the theme.
Yeah this looks familiar.....this was soon as DU was about to release....you can't convince me this wasn't meant for DU!
It wasn't, though. Plumbella, a Game Changer, said in one of her latest videos that she got a sneak peek at the Tiny Living pack when she was at Sims Camp and couldn't say anything about it until it was announced. This Stuff Pack has been planned this way for several months at least.
And honestly, why would Murphy beds come in University in the first place? I've never heard of them being used in one. Is there a region that's known to have them in their dorms? On that note, are they even still a thing at all? 😆
Comments
There's no excuse for the tiny amount of content in this pack.
We got other things instead with those packs. Like school projects and robotics. Why they are prioritizing them over bunk beds is probably based on a number of factors, how easy they are to implement, which people that are working on it and the time and money they have available.
I think the gurus are completely honest. The reason why bunk beds have not been added yet is because they are difficult to make in the sims4 engine. It's probably related to how the game was built from the beginning. If I have to guess, the game was probably not built for that kind of elevation with two sims. Adding them would probably require time, it's possible that we could have gotten bunk beds with University for example, but then we would not have gotten robotics, something that I suspect an entirely different team worked on.
I feel that Maxis could use more people working on the game engine and also a larger budget but it is also possible that they would rather those people worked on other packs or maybe have them work on an entirely new game engine.
I'm sure there are people at Maxis that want bunk beds but this is probably what they are facing.
Speak for yourself. Plenty of simmers are enthused about this pack.
And plenty are not. Speak for yourself. This is crazy! Why are so many people complaining about TS4 at your opinion!? Because it is bad, we are not inventing problems, we are pointing them out. When there's a HUGE number of unhappy customers, it's maybe time to question yourself. People are not crazy complaining about something that has not problems. Pff, I don't have any words it's sick, really it's sick.
I totally agree with you about the budget topic. I think there's not enough budget for TS4.
I ain't gonna lie but I miss them ladders.
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For example, the knitting animation to wreck the DU statue is a small chunk of the final animation for actual knitting. The DU repo man will make one heck of a ghost hunter animation one day. Some packs tend to lack gameplay when it’s clear they are just “chunk makers” for later packs!
Also, a lot of people mention the IL ladders - but I think that jumping platform that either came with JA or GT where Simmies go higher than the ground is a potential chunk animation for bunk beds. When they say an object is “outside the scope of a pack” I think they might mean they have not yet finished the next required chunks needed to have the object ready.
@luthienrising had a good suggestion, and it honestly seems like the only constructive way to move forward to get what we want. If bunk beds are too much of a resource hog for the smaller packs, then it seems like a really good idea for them to be turned over to the developers that handle the free content updates. Tackling crazy huge projects seems to be their specialty, and it sounds like this is right up their alley. If they can implement gender updates, toddlers, pools, terrain, column extensions etc, then they can tackle bunk beds. It's a feature that should be in the base game, imo, so it's an appropriate task for that team.
@popstarissa I agree, it does seem like they're adding small animations in here and there that serve as starting points for further development in the future.
Every job has limitations to what is possible to do and still produce a product on time and on budget (technical, time, and cost budgets) and still make something marketable in practice to a market you have researched. There is no such thing as unlimited resources to do a job in. It is not "laziness" to work within the resources you have. In fact, it is anything *but* laziness to account for resources and the like. It's laziness to *not* do that and then end up with a product you can't finish or sell.
That's rather what I thought - that two Sims in the same tile area is a problem, and maybe it's always been that way, or maybe it's a special problem in S4.
As you and others have mentioned, there's a finite number of hours and other things to get done. (I suspect the same people complaining about bunk beds would be complaining about murphy beds if they'd done the reverse.) Personally, I don't care about bunk beds - if they're going to devote time to something, I'd rather it be game play than an object.
I definitely agree on this one. With SPs especially it seems that they put the minimum amount of objects, CAS items, and animations for the highest profit. I understand the scope of priorities and limits, no doubt there, but I wonder if they value them as much as they do with GPs and EPs, when it comes to the versatility of included content. I'm trying to stay optimistic, though, and hope that they've got some aces up their sleeves. It's the only thing I can do five and a half years into the game. *Shrugs*
Anyway you got my point. It's unbelievable to me that after 5 years they still haven't figured out how/where to impliment them. They had many packs where they could have implimented them. Missing such a basic object like that after 5 years is crazy! I won't respond now cause it's non-sense, you got my point, and that's it for me.
The scary thing is people defending their excuses or making excuses for them. They are developers, that is their job. Bunk beds are not a new invention to Sims. This is why we get no where with Sims 4 but a broken lacking game play game. People actually make excuses for these developers.
Exactly. I think EA might pay some people to always jump on negative feedbacks cause it's crazy. They could literally make a 10$ SP with a toilet and I'm sure some... people would jump on us if we complain.
Yeah this looks familiar.....this was soon as DU was about to release....you can't convince me this wasn't meant for DU!
Not even going to try and convince you because that would be a lost cause but I did want to mention that multiple packs are in development concurrently and SimGuruNinja posting a pic a month before release in no way 'proves' it was a feature intended for Discover University.
I feel mean for laughing but where’s the lie 😂😂 You try and explain things to people and if it doesn’t fit their idea of how things are then it can’t possibly be true 🤦♀️
More than likely the next game pack and expansion pack are both being worked on at this moment because they’re separate teams.
But I digress ... it'd be a lost cause for me to explain to you.
So let's agree to disagree.
@KaeChan2089 that’s annoying. There’s a ton of fun things in that concept art and we haven’t seen in the game yet. Slim countertop stove, toaster, under-counter laundro, small microwave. That’s the kind of stuff one would expect in a Tiny Living pack!
Remember that Concept Arts are never consists of final nor planned features of the game. When the Developers said that they where going to create a say city living pack, it is an artist interpretation on what Apartments would look like, but it doesn't mean that everything on the concept art was planned. I mean by looking at the Stuff Pack vote, the Concept Arts was created very early in the game even when they are yet to plan a certain gameplay object for the pack. However in Concept art, it is unlimited for the artist to draw whatever objects he/she likes as long as it fits the theme.
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/924539/features-that-needs-depth-and-ways-to-improve
It wasn't, though. Plumbella, a Game Changer, said in one of her latest videos that she got a sneak peek at the Tiny Living pack when she was at Sims Camp and couldn't say anything about it until it was announced. This Stuff Pack has been planned this way for several months at least.
And honestly, why would Murphy beds come in University in the first place? I've never heard of them being used in one. Is there a region that's known to have them in their dorms? On that note, are they even still a thing at all? 😆