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Developers should play the game they're developing.

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  • friendlysimmersfriendlysimmers Posts: 7,542 Member
    i agree with @Scobre on this one how would they stream the new ep or gamepack or sp if they did not play it first or show new content thats coming or upcoming if you take teaser trailers of ep gp or sp
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  • NorthDakotaGamerNorthDakotaGamer Posts: 2,559 Member
    edited November 2019
    They should actually playtest with all packs installed. What it looks like is happening, is very little playtesting with base game and new dlc only. They don't ever seem to see the issues that many players find within a couple of hours only day one. That is very offputting and makes it appear that they don't playtest correctly. I also never watch them on streams, because the impression given was they are unknowledgeable about aspects of the game they make.
    Post edited by NorthDakotaGamer on
  • hotshocolatehotshocolate Posts: 15 Member
    i completely agree with u 100% this has been something on my mind for a while. it was also totally obvious they don't play the game when they released get famous which included houses with NO TOILETS lol
  • MelpomenaMelpomena Posts: 207 Member
    Why don't they organize a Gameplay Testers Team as they do with the Game Changers? This GTT would be forbidden access to forums and Tweeter and all socials to make sure they would not discuss upcoming content that they would get in advance and playtest while developping is happening. I'm sure they could find good gameplay testers among the players community.
  • SimburianSimburian Posts: 6,907 Member
    Melpomena wrote: »
    Why don't they organize a Gameplay Testers Team as they do with the Game Changers? This GTT would be forbidden access to forums and Tweeter and all socials to make sure they would not discuss upcoming content that they would get in advance and playtest while developping is happening. I'm sure they could find good gameplay testers among the players community.

    I get a bit annoyed that Modders give their mods for free and don't get any reward for them. Could Maxis bring the best in to workshop sessions to test new packs, sort some bugs out together to help the game for us all? Maybe if Maxis is impressed, actually help with education, training, job offers, CVs etc.? All voluntary.
  • CamkatCamkat Posts: 2,329 Member
    i agree with @Scobre on this one how would they stream the new ep or gamepack or sp if they did not play it first or show new content thats coming or upcoming if you take teaser trailers of ep gp or sp

    Very badly, as the university live stream was pretty sad. They didn't know what to show, how to play really, all over the place and unorganized. They actually made me NOT want to buy the game. Probably the opposite affect of what they had intended.

    Even if they aren't going to be the ones showing it off, EA does need to make sure all of the employees are getting enough play time out of the game, preferably in work hours for them so they at least know how the game works and how packs might interact with each other. Saying on live stream that University won't show classes on the seasons calendar, then 2 days later, a game changer with a video showing that classes are indeed on the calendar. They look like they don't know what they are talking about and clearly in this case they did not. Doesn't give a person a whole lot of confidence in their game and it certainly doesn't make me trust anything they have to say. :/
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  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 6,439 Member
    I believe that the lead producers at least do play the game to test it out (as part of their work hours). I've seen both Grant and Ninja make many posts about it. I have no idea what that entails, but I can say that they do at least sometimes test with other packs, because there have been screenshots and references. A few devs play somewhat regularly, according to their claims.

    The problem lies in that there are many different play styles, and devoted players of the game most likely play for many more hours during the week than any of the devs. We have players who don't work, who are retired, disabled, ill, etc., plus those who spend a healthy chunk of their free time playing the game, so more content is covered on a more regular basis. So a dev's test run is nowhere near the equivalent hours put in. Plus, the sheer volume of millions of players are much more likely to find issues than the 200 or so people developing the game, with only a fraction of that number actually playing it.

    I think that the idea of having confidential play testers is a good one. They could further utilize the Game Changer program to do this, because they really do need dedicated long-term players to deep dive into the content to find if it integrates well.

    But it's also helpful for players to meet halfway and try to understand that sometimes design decisions have to be made that just can't please everyone. It's unfortunate, but it's just the way things are. Maybe there will be more flexibility with Sims 5's design, who knows?
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  • DragonCat159DragonCat159 Posts: 1,896 Member
    edited November 2019
    how would they stream the new ep or gamepack or sp if they did not play it first or show new content thats coming or upcoming if you take teaser trailers of ep gp or sp

    Because creating something doesn't necessary mean you played it? Teasers could possible been made by marketing team, which do completely different job than developers, and so those actually need to film the game-play.

    I'll correct myself on the persception: I do think they devote minimal time to play to test features they're in. However, the results often depict as if after they thrown in a feature in a game, play test it for a few minutes, before going about they're do something else where their made feature is not on their mind. Developers are leaving too many gameplay/mechanic oversights in the things they create.
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  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    I mean they do have playtesting programs within EA already. I just don't think that alone is helping any EA products having the community do the work for them in cases like this. Pretty much shows in Business terms a lack of due diligence.
    It is like writing a book and not proofreading it before publishing. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/due-diligence

    https://na.playtesting.ea.com/ARCSPortal/EA/locations
    https://www.ea.com/playtesting
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  • ApparentlyAwesomeApparentlyAwesome Posts: 1,523 Member
    i fully disagree with everything said in this thread but i will say this if you hate the sims4 so much then why are you playing the sims4 then if its only to critic after?

    I don't play Sims 4. I own it, but I don't even try to play it anymore. And I speak out in the hopes that Sims 5 doesn't turn out just like it. It's fine to me if there are players who don't see any flaws with The Sims 4 and think it's perfect or close to it but I don't think any of The Sims games are perfect, hence why I don't want an exact replica of any previous Sims game made for whatever year Sims 5 comes along.

    I see areas for improvement in all of them, even my favorite one, and I push for EA and Maxis to do better than what I think is best they've done, and not just based on what I alone think, but also what seems to be popular opinion based on what I read lurking here and in other places. And if Sims 5 turns out like Sims 4 then I won't buy it unless it's free either and I won't play my copy of it until the series is over to see if the base game on it's own has improved. They can sing no Sims 6 if Sims 5 doesn't sell all day to me, it's what worked on some of the Sims 4 players (not you but others who've admitted so), but I know the game can be better than what they're trying to sell as their best and I'm not buying until they show me better.

    Also, it's not even just players who hate or dislike it who criticize it. It's players who like it too, and unfortunately they get ragged on sometimes as much as those of us who don't like it as much as they do. I just got around to watching Carl's video on ways he feels the game can be improved and some of the people agreeing that there was a problem were people who like and enjoy the game so it's not just us who "hate" it speaking out.

    If the devs aren't playing the game, like apparently some of them have already admitted to, I think them simply playing it would help them understand what players who do find those flaws mean because some of the same things have been said over and over again since 2014, just not by a couple of popular Game Changers. I really don't understand how major and widely experienced issues slip through the cracks or they think the questionable state of something is good enough to release unless they never experienced if for themselves or they just thought to release now and fix later. Not just with Sims 4 either. When a new patch gets released half to majority of the players shouldn't be wondering what's going to break next or hoping the creators of the mods they use update quickly so they can play again.

    Any other series, any other game and a lot of us probably wouldn't still be here. But even though we may not like Sims 4 very much we love The Sims franchise. That's the main reason we keep speaking out. As has been said numerous times before in other threads when asked why we're still here if we hate it, we wouldn't be here if we didn't care. It's really that simple.
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  • keekee53keekee53 Posts: 4,328 Member
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    How do any of you think they could possibly make a game they do not play. That makes no sense.

    After that live stream, I am inclined to believe they don't play. I have even seen game changers who don't even know basic sim functions, which leads me to believe they are playing for the money and not for the enjoyment.
  • keekee53keekee53 Posts: 4,328 Member
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Well I heard numerious of developers say that and it becomes more appearant often than not in streams, where they look like they don't even know how to navigate stuff in the game whilst showcasing a pack.

    When people leave work - their work day has ended - period. I don't care what job they have. That is wrong saying anyone has to bring their work home I don't care what they do. Ask people here who have spouses how they would like that if their spouse brought their work home because some customer said so. Home you are on your own time and you should never bring your work home - especially if you have a family which most of the devs do.

    I think the point they are making is that the devs don't play the sims on their freetime...only when they have to...if ever.

    JUst like any job. Most people do not bring work home and the Sims is their work. Their free time is just that free time to do things with their kids and spouses - live life like everyone does. They are no different than anyone else.

    The problem is I don't believe they are playing the game at work either...LOL

    I also believe they are playing each expansion as an individual pack while in development which is why University doesn't work well with Seasons. They will always miss stuff because they are not looking at the whole game and how other packs come into play with the one they are developing. This is why we have so many basic bugs and everyone is like how did you miss that.
  • keekee53keekee53 Posts: 4,328 Member
    They should actually playtest with all packs installed. What it looks like is happening, is very little playtesting with base game and new dlc only. They don't ever seem to see the issues that many players find within a couple of hours only day one. That is very offputting and makes it appear that they don't playtest correctly. I also never watch them on streams, because the impression given was they are unknowledgeable about aspects of the game they make.

    YES!! I wish I saw your comment before I wrote mine. This is the biggest problem. You are absolutely right.
  • thecatsredthecatsred Posts: 327 Member
    Them playing the game they are developing would also help them realize that many of the issues their players are having aren't 'fun, quirky' game moments, and actually a legitimate issue (looking at you, hoards of randomly generated townies)
  • Jordan061102Jordan061102 Posts: 3,918 Member
    edited November 2019
    This is just overwhelming for me. I don't even know what to say. I'm not surprised att all, everything they do is just wrong. I just get to the point that no matter what they do, no matter how, I'm never satisfied. It's like forcing yourself to like somebody who's to much annoying and like to do and think the exact opposite of you.
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  • LuxuryLuxury Posts: 127 Member
    wasn't there a dev that made a build video with JamesTurner and had to be instructed on what to do?
  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,907 Member
    edited November 2019
    Scobre wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    @Writin_Reg lol because some of them have actually said so themselves.

    The only one i ever saw say something like that is he did not play it on his own time at home is Grant. I can see that as he makes board games own his own time. Not a lot of people bring work home with them though. But when they are at work they very much have to play it to make things for it and test it.

    I know I have had lots of work history and things i did at work - well i never came home and did them. That makes perfect sense to me. Everyone has lives outside of their job.

    So you all think Developers are supposed to work on Sims all day and then play the game all night and the heck with their spouses and families. Tell me how many of you go home and do what you do at your job all day. Do you have kids and families - would they understand if you brought your work home everynight. That is so unrealistic.
    I've talked to other Gurus and they say they don't too. SimGuruMorgan does. She's a pyro deviant player like me. Basically was told bulk of Gurus and Maxis team don't play the game by the Gurus themselves. Why I suggested once a month to be reasonable because I do know Gurus have lives too. I do think being apart of any business it is good to test products before releasing be in Sims or something much more tangible. I know the QA team does, but it wouldn't hurt to have some SimGurus play the game too outside their cheats. I do think it is helping having them play casually beyond the deep dive stream too.

    And they do - EA hires hundreds of game testers. A lot of people started out as testers for EA - who eventually came back after they got the required college they needed to do other jobs at EA. I cannot believe people can even suggest a major company like EA with well over 9700 employees do not hire testers -

    But it is wrong to suggest any person take and work when their day is done for any reason - as their children and spouses have priority once their work day is done. EA years ago worked like that and learned their lesson well when spouses roared - no regular job can force anyone to work when their day is done no matter what gamers think. At least not in this country.


    https://www.ea.com/playtesting/getting-to-the-lab
    Post edited by Writin_Reg on

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  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    Writin_Reg wrote: »

    And they do - EA hires hundreds of game testers. A lot of people started out as testers for EA - who eventually came back after they got the required college they needed to do other jobs at EA. I cannot believe people can even suggest a major company like EA with well over 9700 employees do not hire testers -

    But it is wrong to suggest any person take and work when their day is done for any reason - as their children and spouses have priority once their work day is done. EA years ago worked like that and learned their lesson well when spouses roared - no regular job can force anyone to work when their day is done no matter what gamers think. At least not in this country.


    https://www.ea.com/playtesting/getting-to-the-lab
    A lot of the Gurus have had to work overtime, so work day takes longer than others. I've asked Gurus before if they ever sleep.

    Makes me think of this joke SimGuruNinja showed when doing his crunch time:


    Gaming industry still isn't unionized so although things are better, their job still does force them to work longer than their work day. Had several friends working in the gaming industry say they are forced to work long hours and nothing they can do about it and being forced to commute long hours on top of that. I do think it is more productive to put priority in doing due diligence on testing the product during their work hours once a month sending workers home in rotation for a few hours. Would allow them more time to be with family and less commute time at least for one day. With you being an investor and a writer, I know you understand how important proofreading your own work and having other look at it before sending it to publishing is which produces a higher quality product and higher return in investment for you. The trouble is the Sims 4 is a live service and EA with their intense time crutches for games does make due diligence impossible. Why I think Sims 4 is still releasing too many packs per year which is taking time away from testing their products out more. Yes it is good to have game testers but having that extra layer of testing would not only allow Gurus to understand Simmers better, but produce better live streams and better products. But then with Sims 4 being the way it is, maybe even Gurus admit that the Sims 4 isn't entertaining enough playing normally even during work hours. I guess it is more telling of the product than anything that not even most Gurus want to play it. I can see why SimGuruLyndsay said the Sims 2 is her personal favorite. Maybe it is more fun for the Gurus to play the Sims 2 over the Sims 4 still.
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  • EA_MaiEA_Mai Posts: 1,800 EA Staff (retired)
    Hi everyone,

    Our developers and testers do indeed play the game. I'm going to lock this thread here as it doesn't seem to have any other purpose than to talk bad about the Maxis team. I'm also going to ask you to not discuss people's personal lives, especially when they are not part of the conversation. Yes, the developers are creating the games you play, but that doesn't open their personal lives up for you to speculate.

    Thanks.
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