I have been thinking about TS5 and what I want from it for a very long time indeed. I have decided that when it comes to the sims and indeed to the general aesthetic I want as much realism as possible. The idea of puppets in badly fitting clothes does not appeal, and as much as I want a new pc version of the sims, I will not buy if that is all that is on offer.
As someone has said though we need to wait and see what EA come up with. To be frank I am not expecting much different from TS4 but I do live in hope that another developer/producer will come up with a more realistic alternative. An alternative with the sims realistic enough to have hair which moves naturally, normal skin tones, normal smiles, natural movement etc, etc
In the meantime there is TS3
I no longer use Origin or My Page. You can find me on YouTube or Twitter as Bettyboop711000. You are welcome to contact me as I explore options for a PC sandbox life simulation game.
Wherever I am friends call me Betty
The truth of the matter is that the Sims series was always meant to be somewhat cartoonish. Hyper realistic isn't necessarily the best style for them go for, especially when it comes to certain occult creatures like vampires. Not to mention a fully realistic cow plant would be nightmare fuel! The Truth of the matter is, when it comes to games like the sims, I'm more concerned with game play than art style anyway.
True, and I think most of us agree with you. @Pary brought up Sims Medieval, and those sims look like humans, not dolls, without being hyper-realistic.
With those games that try to be hyper-realistic at least I think that "that looks really good, but you can still tell it's a game because the characters look a bit like robots". With a game like Sims you feel that the sims have an art style, so they feel more "finished" instead of "just a step towards hyper-realism".
With sims in an updated Medieval style they would look more human, but you could still tell that they are sims and have no qualms over feeding them to the Cow Plant.
Fair enough that you feel that gameplay is more important, but many of us write stories, love fashion, or love to take screenshots as well as loving the gameplay. There are so many ways to play Sims.
Well, that pic of Sims 4 is a creepy, Strangerville ZoMbiE so of course it's doll-ish. Dolls are terrifying!
Fornite does look like dolls (but more of an action-figure type).
Toy Story is ABOUT A DOLL.
This was my first thought. Any screencaps of possessed Sims from Strangerville is probably the farthest extreme of cartoony you can get in the game.
Also, the poll simply asks if people prefer cartoony or realistic. There's no mention (in the poll itself, at least) of people wanting it to be "even more cartoony" than Sims 4. Just between cartoony and realistic as general choices, people who decided to vote in that poll seem to prefer the former.
Watch me mash together Sims and Pokémon to tell a story about battling glitches in Penny Saves Paldea. Updated every other Thursday.
Also, the poll simply asks if people prefer cartoony or realistic. There's no mention (in the poll itself, at least) of people wanting it to be "even more cartoony" than Sims 4. Just between cartoony and realistic as general choices, people who decided to vote in that poll seem to prefer the former.
Yeah, and I was the one who brought up Toy Story. I exaggerated a bit. Sorry. But that came to mind when people wanted more of the cartoony style, while I, on the other hand, want sims that take into the account the progress in computer technology since 2000. And as said earlier, the examples the creator of the poll posted aren't the best.
Is that TS4 horror in the OP supposed to be a zombie? Because it if it, it doesn't look like one. I made a sim once that had eyes just like that thing when it was conversing with people.
Now, please don't stone me, but just so that I could be aware of what I was talking about, since so many TS4 people apparently believe you can't form an opinion by just looking at LP's or screenies ( unless its a positive opinion /eyeroll ) I downloaded and tried TS4 when it was free. And I had a sim that went to a bar and was "interacting" with other sims and it had a face exactly like that picture, with the over-exaggerated expressions and movements. It truly is the singularly most awful sims game I've ever seen.
I actually posted my thoughts on the game on another forum, I'll just quote myself here.
I paid exactly what TS4 is worth - nothing.
Since it's worth nothing, and being offered for nothing, I actually downloaded it. To be honest, I was prepared to eat crow, and that it would not be as bad as I had always thought.
However, it was WORSE than I actually thought. People tout CAS as the "best thing ever!!11oneone"
Well it's rubbish and the push pull system is utterly appalling. Taking a step back to swatches instead of at least a colour wheel feels archaic, and the sims are SO BLOODY UGLY.
Nonetheless, I made a stepford smiling ugly sim and took off for the desert town, whatever its silly name is. I picked a boring, prefab house with its oversized furniture and sent my sim off to some cactus bar to meet people.
This is where it got really ugly. Literally. A bunch of sims rolled up and sat next to my sim, engaging in socialisation stuff. After after five minutes of watching my sim "over act" waving her hands around, and exaggerate every movement, what finally finished me off was another two minutes of watching her talking to this man while her eyes were almost literally bulging out of her head like some psychopathic serial killer on PcP. She looked like one of those black goldfish.
I quit in horror and immediately uninstalled it, and endured a boatload of ribbing from my kids for the rest of the day ( week ) for even installing it in the first place.
I will never be the same again.
Edit to add - My sons were watching while I played it, and when I first loaded the town map they were disgusted, and even more so when one of them said "Scroll over to the other half Mum."
His face when I told him that was all there was, was priceless. He looked so shocked.
It isn't worth the download. Half the time that Sim I had that was supposedly "interacting" with people in this bar, it wasn't even looking at them. At one point, for some reason, it was trying to talk to someone behind it, and there was a moment where I thought I was watching the Exorcist! Its head swiveled almost entirely around.
It's a truly horrid game, and while my "seven minutes of play" is just a bit of an understatement, and I had every intention of giving it a really good go ( as I wrote, I WAS prepared to eat crow and perhaps actually like it a little ) I probably played just over an hour or something, to test out interactions, with objects and other sims, but I was so repulsed by it, I just couldn't go any further.
I think it was @Nikkei_Simmer that said on his blog ( ? ) it is very difficult to form any attachment to these overly cartoony TS4 sims. I couldn't, to the point where I don't even refer to the one I made as a female most of the time. It is just an "It" to me.
Everyone knows that I get heavily involved with my sims / characters, and they all have backstories, and their own little personalities, but this one was just... a thing. I felt like I couldn't relate at all, and the art style just made everything feel worse. I've never been a fan of that style, I can't stand it.
On topic, the overly cartoony style really was an awful turn off. It's just terrible, and it made me so happy that I am still able to play TS2 and 3 and not have to limit myself to what really does feel like being in a Toy story movie.
I truly hope that they ditch this style if they ever make a TS5. It feels like such a disconnect to me, like not playing a real sims game. It just felt wrong. I would probably feel just the same about hyper realism as well.
I can see my son saved me some grief, then! He's a gamer, or at least I assume he is given the thousands of dollars I have put in his Steam wallet over the last three years, and although he doesn't sim he does "research" lots of games he doesn't play and pretty much wrote TS4 off as a joke long ago.
I have to admit that the cartoony style is one of the reasons I have never been tempted.
@Pary I didn't download that test version myself, but now I almost wish I did. It would have helped me improve my english vocabulary a lot. And yours too, maybe, since I would have invented a couple of new words as well.
The truth of the matter is that the Sims series was always meant to be somewhat cartoonish. Hyper realistic isn't necessarily the best style for them go for, especially when it comes to certain occult creatures like vampires. Not to mention a fully realistic cow plant would be nightmare fuel! The Truth of the matter is, when it comes to games like the sims, I'm more concerned with game play than art style anyway.
The aesthetic has always been a balance between realism and cartoony but I now prefer more realism and more maturity. A sandbox life simulator being hyper realistic isn't necessary to enjoy the game if done well, that's true. However, the best style depends on where the majority resides on the matter because they are the ones who would support the game the most. Besides, at the other end of the spectrum is TS4 that factually destroys this balance to go for all out cartoony look. This is a first and one of the most disliked graphics and aesthetics in the whole franchise compared to facts of TS2 sale numbers at launch and then TS3 sale numbers overachieving TS2 and in less time. But TS4 there is not any factual statistics because the truth is the majority looked at TS4 and either quit the franchise altogether or mostly just stuck with TS3/TS2/TS. The majority of TS4 supporters are probably die-hard fans and newbies.
By more realism, I don't mean that the Sims and the environment should be hyper realistic though I don't think I would mind it. I mean, I play all kinds of games with realistic looking characters and environments so that wouldn't bother me as long as everything fits well visually. However, I would love to have a whole lot more realism those areas besides the A.I. itself.
I'm fine with how my Sims look with custom skin and eyes since there won't be anymore improvements and advancements. But there isn't much diversity in terms of nuances with skin such as acne, blemishes, dimples, etc.
Overall the graphics, aesthetics and gameplay mechanics should be improved and advanced and I really hope someday there will be a brand new sandbox life simulator that gets inspiration from TS3 but also the in-depth gameplay from TS2 and TS. I also hope it would be rated M for Mature and their target audience are adults.
But you know what, I wouldn't mind a style similar but more refined than EVE Online character creator. I really don't like the texture/shine of the hair, I don't like how the hair looks...it looks so bad to me. But mostly everything else looks a lot better than TS3. The skin has nuances instead of flawlessly smooth like a porcelain doll and I like that. This reminds me though, I wonder what Cyberpunk 2077 character creation will be like in more detail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkvx5KguErM
“What doesn't kill you makes you stronger
Stand a little taller
Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
What doesn't kill you makes a fighter
Footsteps even lighter”
I prefer the more cartoony style if these are my only choices, but I'd like a mixture of the two. I prefer it because it matches the interactions, even TS3 has outlandish animations. So I get pictures like this one:
In TS4 it looks like it fits, which makes it feel more stylized. But I'll be real, base sims, no matter which version of the game, are 🐸🐸🐸🐸. I think this is a better comparison of the art styles. Not in love with any version.
But I'm ok with it because I know that with mods, I can make any game look the way I want it to. And to illustrate that, here's pictures of TS4...retextured.
And here are both CC sims from TS3 and TS4:
Anyone not afraid of modding knows what can be done with the game.
It's true that talking majorities and minorities is kind of pointless given the small sampling of the simming population that is actually represented here on the forums. Even from such a small sampling, I have seen many different play styles and aesthetic tastes that are so different to what I want from the game that I doubt you could ever get a true indication of what the "majority" of simmers want.
See the example shown there by @Mstybl95 of the TS4 sims with the skin overlay is something I would have used to illustrate my point of TS4 sims looking like they don't belong after you slap ts3-like stuff on them.
He's looking all kind of semi realistic with the overlay and everything, which is fine until you see he's sporting lego plastic hair, even though it seems an effort has been made to retexturing it. And nothing in TS4 ever seems to be able to disguise those eyes... they always look weird. I think it's the lack of lashes?
That kind of thing just doesn't work for me. Everyone likes different things of course, but that's just one of my personal peeves.
I must say, those retextures of Ts4 scenery look much improved ! But again, I can't see the overly cartoony sims fitting into it. It's just me and my preferences though.
See the example shown there by @Mstybl95 of the TS4 sims with the skin overlay is something I would have used to illustrate my point of TS4 sims looking like they don't belong after you slap ts3-like stuff on them.
He's looking all kind of semi realistic with the overlay and everything, which is fine until you see he's sporting lego plastic hair, even though it seems an effort has been made to retexturing it. And nothing in TS4 ever seems to be able to disguise those eyes... they always look weird. I think it's the lack of lashes?
That kind of thing just doesn't work for me. Everyone likes different things of course, but that's just one of my personal peeves.
I must say, those retextures of Ts4 scenery look much improved ! But again, I can't see the overly cartoony sims fitting into it. It's just me and my preferences though.
To be fair, that is just the overlay and I didn't grab anything that shows a completely CC sim like the TS3 one. This is because for some reason everyone that uses CC nowadays thinks lips like sad balloons are all the rage so it was hard to find a decent looking realistic sim. They are out there, but I don't particularly like the way they look. You are absolutely right, they don't match the environment and look very out of place. But if it's your cup of tea, TS4 can be made to look more realistic.
I voted for realism, because I want my Sims looking like little people.
I want a game where not only the emotions and interactions between the Sims will be improved (from Sims 2 and Sims 3) but the art style, too. I want moving hair, curtains which swing in the wind if the window is open, truly wet Sims when it´s raining.... I want more detail in the grass and the trees, in the structure of the textures and patterns!
I don´t understand why this is seen as uncanny valley! Are people not able to distinguish between a game they are playing and reality? Do people really think about this pixel characters as "somehow real people" and think that realistically Sims are what? Alive???
I really don´t get the argument that The Sims were always meant to be cartoonish as well. Who said that?
I think that the Sims in Sims 2 just look as cartoonish as they do is attributabled to the specs of the computers a decade ago! If they were able to create more realistic looking Sims at that time I think they would have done them! Just the programs hindered them!
So saying that the Sims were meant as cartoonish pixel people is just an argument to defend the awful art style they´ve chosen for Sims 4.
To be fair, that is just the overlay and I didn't grab anything that shows a completely CC sim like the TS3 one. This is because for some reason everyone that uses CC nowadays thinks lips like sad balloons are all the rage so it was hard to find a decent looking realistic sim. They are out there, but I don't particularly like the way they look. You are absolutely right, they don't match the environment and look very out of place. But if it's your cup of tea, TS4 can be made to look more realistic.
I know, I'm sorry I wasn't trying to mock your choices or anything, I just wanted to point out "Here, this is what I meant, but in picture form."
This discussion will very quickly become a dumpster fire if we continue the classic TS3 vs TS4 argument.
I think we can all be in consensus that what we want for future game is more detail. Realism means better textures, colour and shading in scenery and objects. When I think of TS4 all I see in my mind is flat, plastic-looking surfaces. I probably would have enjoyed looking at it more if I modded it like in mystybl95's pictures.
Also to add; I don't see how they could make a true sims game with hyper "uncanny valley" realism, seeing as we love our sim's goofy expressions. Maybe not as goofy as the Strangerville sim though lol.
Especially face & hair textures. Good grief, people don't have hair like a mop of straw !
You'd think they'd have learned that by now. Cross fingers for #5 that there might be hair that looks a bit smoother. ( and moves )
@coco The goofy expressions are very endearing
The reason I didn't vote is because I really don't care what they do for a future sims game because, as I said in my first comment on this thread, I am not willing to wait the years it would take for the game to be fully patched and modded to my taste.
I'm actually okay with a little cartoony. I remember never being happy with how my TS2 sims looked but it never stopped me from absolutely loving the game.
@mikezumi I can't see myself moving on either. I'm as attached to my TS3 family now as I was back in 2014. I love that there are extreme facial animations as well as subtle ones. I don't mind sims being cartoony in that aspect because if they weren't I imagine people would be complaining about them having no emotions. I loved TS2 back in the day but I just can't get back into it anymore because the neighbourhood feels like it's been split up into compartments, time has no meaning and it's not really a 'real' world. The very same could be said for TS4.
TS3 sims, I love playing with. In fact I get attached to my sims and could spend hours playing with them.
TS4 sims, I just would end up torturing (in the vein of Gray Still Plays) I have no attachment to TS4 sims. If a modder came up with a mod to inflict a “Disasters&Blessings” type torture mod; TS4 sims would meet a nasty end in every single one of my TS4 games. :evil maniacal laughter:
Nikkei sad no explodey things in TS4. Very disappointed. Nikkei stick to TS3 where lots of fun things that go boom like meteors, det packs. Nikkei very happy with TS3. Maybe sims not happy but Nikkei happy -very important to keep Nikkei happy.
On a more serious note:
I agree with @Deshong04 that Uncanny Valley is just an imaginary concept to deal with some people’s uncomfortable-ness with dealing with characters in a game or robots that are made to appear close to realistic human. Believe me, when someone gets into a FPS (first-person shooter) you’re not worrying about whether, “oh no, I’m doing something that’s horrible to another human being”. It’s a target and you aim and fire two shots center mass. Me I wouldn’t mind seeing just how far Sims 5 can push the graphics envelope.
And frankly yeah It may be disturbing to others to hear but I can make the distinction between a sim in a game and a real human being. And I won’t hesitate to inflict torturous pains on the former while respecting the rights to live of the latter.
Realistic cow-plant being nightmare fuel?
No more nightmarish than any of the spiders encountered in Dragon Age.
@Damienf519 unless you have an inside scoop as to what Will Wright intended; your “to tell you the truth” is in effect just a supposition. In fact none of us are certain as to what Will Wright would have wanted should he have continued to helm Maxis. And THAT is the truth.
The last game Will Wright had input with was Sims 2. Sims 3 was entirely EA/Maxis by which time Will Wright had left the company so TS3 was the experimental direction in which EA had wanted to go at the time - which leaned towards realism. But unfortunately EA found out that the technology at the time wasn’t up to the standard that they wanted to pursue or it would have knocked it out of the park.
Now we have technology that can push the envelope of hyper-reality. But instead of trying again to push the limits they decided to take 10 steps backwards and deliver us a game that looked like a colourist tripping on acid vomited up on a 2D cartoon along with missing key elements of gameplay and enthusing pver “how smoothly it played”. Now after multiple stuff, game and expansion packs, you’re now complaining about lag, game-breaking errors and multiple “Series of Unfortunate Events” which makes TS4 just as buggy as you continue to complain that TS3 is.
We can see exactly through other games just how good graphics and gameplay can actually combine together. Good gameplay and good graphics are not mutually exclusive terms. When I hear of people telling me that you can have good gameplay at the cost of good graphics or vice versa all I hear are EXCUSES! And a development group NOT WILLING TO PUT IN THE WORK necessary to make this a truly AAA title and THAT DISGUSTS ME.
You can see what a development group who puts everything into their work and pride of effort can come up with in this image below!
FS2020 is going to be run on a 24/7 online server because it cannot run self-contained on a consumer PC. What we end up doing is buying access to the flight sim server to fly around a vast open world.
And unfortunately, that is the future of this game as well if anyone is wanting online play. It will end up being online access to a server to run the game. And if they plan to mollify the people that they’ve alienated, EA is going to have to take a step in the other direction or this game is going to sink. And Sims will join the ever increasing list of titles on the trash-heap.
Post edited by Nikkei_Simmer on
Always "River McIrish" ...and maybe some Bebe Hart. ~innocent expression~
Uncanny Valley is just an imaginary concept to deal with some people’s uncomfortable-ness with dealing with characters in a game or robots that are made to appear close to realistic human.
Uncanny valley is the stupid dead stare that every character has. It has nothing to do with people thinking they're real. It's that they look real, but the eyes are disturbing to look at because they're dead.
This is the reason I don't like hyper-realistic characters. It's completely because no one can get the eyes to look human. If characters looked like that one AI pop star that no one can tell is computer generated, I'd freaking love the hyper realism. Unfortunately, gaming companies don't spend cash like that on character development, though the sims certainly should.
Uncanny Valley is just an imaginary concept to deal with some people’s uncomfortable-ness with dealing with characters in a game or robots that are made to appear close to realistic human.
Uncanny valley is the stupid dead stare that every character has. It has nothing to do with people thinking they're real. It's that they look real, but the eyes are disturbing to look at because they're dead.
This is the reason I don't like hyper-realistic characters. It's completely because no one can get the eyes to look human. If characters looked like that one AI pop star that no one can tell is computer generated, I'd freaking love the hyper realism. Unfortunately, gaming companies don't spend cash like that on character development, though the sims certainly should.
Dictionary Definition of Uncanny Valley
un·can·ny val·ley
noun used in reference to the phenomenon whereby a computer-generated figure or humanoid robot bearing a near-identical resemblance to a human being arouses a sense of unease or revulsion in the person viewing it.
"anyone attempting to build a believable human facsimile also has to beware of the uncanny valley"
As far as the “Dead Eyes” are concerned it has never bothered me. Laybe it’s because of decades of playing video games back when graphics were lines, triangles and dots.
What we have in graphics is eons ahead of what we had in the 70s. To have any “intelligence and life” behind those sim eyes would have to have a thinking intelligence behind them. And believe me, if there’s a thinking intelligence behind those eyes, you’d have a hell of a lot more to worry about than some game aesthetics.
Might want to read up on Stephen Hawking’s views regarding artificial intelligence.
"Success in creating effective AI, could be the biggest event in the history of our civilization. Or the worst. We just don't know. So we cannot know if we will be infinitely helped by AI, or ignored by it and side-lined, or conceivably destroyed by it,"
So I’d just be happy with dead-eyed stare sims that I can imagine are real than ones who are thinking up of ways to kill me because I put up a fence around a pool and left them to drown.
Post edited by Nikkei_Simmer on
Always "River McIrish" ...and maybe some Bebe Hart. ~innocent expression~
I think just changing up the dead stare into eyes that are focused on something and/or shifty would be an overall improvement. Human eyes are almost never still...and when they are, people think you're weird (I know this because I daydream a lot and people always ask if I'm alright).
There was a mod ages ago, can't remember if it was for TS2 or TS3 that changed the position of the eyes in cas and it was such an improvement on the dead stare...I loved it.
Comments
As someone has said though we need to wait and see what EA come up with. To be frank I am not expecting much different from TS4 but I do live in hope that another developer/producer will come up with a more realistic alternative. An alternative with the sims realistic enough to have hair which moves naturally, normal skin tones, normal smiles, natural movement etc, etc
In the meantime there is TS3
Wherever I am friends call me Betty
Sim enim est vita
True, and I think most of us agree with you. @Pary brought up Sims Medieval, and those sims look like humans, not dolls, without being hyper-realistic.
With those games that try to be hyper-realistic at least I think that "that looks really good, but you can still tell it's a game because the characters look a bit like robots". With a game like Sims you feel that the sims have an art style, so they feel more "finished" instead of "just a step towards hyper-realism".
With sims in an updated Medieval style they would look more human, but you could still tell that they are sims and have no qualms over feeding them to the Cow Plant.
Fair enough that you feel that gameplay is more important, but many of us write stories, love fashion, or love to take screenshots as well as loving the gameplay. There are so many ways to play Sims.
This was my first thought. Any screencaps of possessed Sims from Strangerville is probably the farthest extreme of cartoony you can get in the game.
Also, the poll simply asks if people prefer cartoony or realistic. There's no mention (in the poll itself, at least) of people wanting it to be "even more cartoony" than Sims 4. Just between cartoony and realistic as general choices, people who decided to vote in that poll seem to prefer the former.
Yeah, and I was the one who brought up Toy Story. I exaggerated a bit. Sorry.
Now, please don't stone me, but just so that I could be aware of what I was talking about, since so many TS4 people apparently believe you can't form an opinion by just looking at LP's or screenies ( unless its a positive opinion /eyeroll ) I downloaded and tried TS4 when it was free. And I had a sim that went to a bar and was "interacting" with other sims and it had a face exactly like that picture, with the over-exaggerated expressions and movements. It truly is the singularly most awful sims game I've ever seen.
I actually posted my thoughts on the game on another forum, I'll just quote myself here.
Edit to add - My sons were watching while I played it, and when I first loaded the town map they were disgusted, and even more so when one of them said "Scroll over to the other half Mum."
His face when I told him that was all there was, was priceless. He looked so shocked.
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It's a truly horrid game, and while my "seven minutes of play" is just a bit of an understatement, and I had every intention of giving it a really good go ( as I wrote, I WAS prepared to eat crow and perhaps actually like it a little ) I probably played just over an hour or something, to test out interactions, with objects and other sims, but I was so repulsed by it, I just couldn't go any further.
I think it was @Nikkei_Simmer that said on his blog ( ? ) it is very difficult to form any attachment to these overly cartoony TS4 sims. I couldn't, to the point where I don't even refer to the one I made as a female most of the time. It is just an "It" to me.
Everyone knows that I get heavily involved with my sims / characters, and they all have backstories, and their own little personalities, but this one was just... a thing. I felt like I couldn't relate at all, and the art style just made everything feel worse. I've never been a fan of that style, I can't stand it.
On topic, the overly cartoony style really was an awful turn off. It's just terrible, and it made me so happy that I am still able to play TS2 and 3 and not have to limit myself to what really does feel like being in a Toy story movie.
I truly hope that they ditch this style if they ever make a TS5. It feels like such a disconnect to me, like not playing a real sims game. It just felt wrong. I would probably feel just the same about hyper realism as well.
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I have to admit that the cartoony style is one of the reasons I have never been tempted.
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The aesthetic has always been a balance between realism and cartoony but I now prefer more realism and more maturity. A sandbox life simulator being hyper realistic isn't necessary to enjoy the game if done well, that's true. However, the best style depends on where the majority resides on the matter because they are the ones who would support the game the most. Besides, at the other end of the spectrum is TS4 that factually destroys this balance to go for all out cartoony look. This is a first and one of the most disliked graphics and aesthetics in the whole franchise compared to facts of TS2 sale numbers at launch and then TS3 sale numbers overachieving TS2 and in less time. But TS4 there is not any factual statistics because the truth is the majority looked at TS4 and either quit the franchise altogether or mostly just stuck with TS3/TS2/TS. The majority of TS4 supporters are probably die-hard fans and newbies.
By more realism, I don't mean that the Sims and the environment should be hyper realistic though I don't think I would mind it. I mean, I play all kinds of games with realistic looking characters and environments so that wouldn't bother me as long as everything fits well visually. However, I would love to have a whole lot more realism those areas besides the A.I. itself.
I'm fine with how my Sims look with custom skin and eyes since there won't be anymore improvements and advancements. But there isn't much diversity in terms of nuances with skin such as acne, blemishes, dimples, etc.
Overall the graphics, aesthetics and gameplay mechanics should be improved and advanced and I really hope someday there will be a brand new sandbox life simulator that gets inspiration from TS3 but also the in-depth gameplay from TS2 and TS. I also hope it would be rated M for Mature and their target audience are adults.
But you know what, I wouldn't mind a style similar but more refined than EVE Online character creator. I really don't like the texture/shine of the hair, I don't like how the hair looks...it looks so bad to me. But mostly everything else looks a lot better than TS3. The skin has nuances instead of flawlessly smooth like a porcelain doll and I like that. This reminds me though, I wonder what Cyberpunk 2077 character creation will be like in more detail.
Stand a little taller
Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
What doesn't kill you makes a fighter
Footsteps even lighter”
In TS4 it looks like it fits, which makes it feel more stylized. But I'll be real, base sims, no matter which version of the game, are 🐸🐸🐸🐸. I think this is a better comparison of the art styles. Not in love with any version.
But I'm ok with it because I know that with mods, I can make any game look the way I want it to. And to illustrate that, here's pictures of TS4...retextured.
And here are both CC sims from TS3 and TS4:
Anyone not afraid of modding knows what can be done with the game.
Zumi and the Winchester Brothers
The Watcher's Caretaker - A Limited ISBI
He's looking all kind of semi realistic with the overlay and everything, which is fine until you see he's sporting lego plastic hair, even though it seems an effort has been made to retexturing it. And nothing in TS4 ever seems to be able to disguise those eyes... they always look weird. I think it's the lack of lashes?
That kind of thing just doesn't work for me. Everyone likes different things of course, but that's just one of my personal peeves.
I must say, those retextures of Ts4 scenery look much improved ! But again, I can't see the overly cartoony sims fitting into it. It's just me and my preferences though.
PoppySims Archive
InnaLisa Pose Archive
Devolution of Sims - a once customisable open world sandbox which has become a DLC Party catalog in a shoebox
I ♡ Pudding
To be fair, that is just the overlay and I didn't grab anything that shows a completely CC sim like the TS3 one. This is because for some reason everyone that uses CC nowadays thinks lips like sad balloons are all the rage so it was hard to find a decent looking realistic sim. They are out there, but I don't particularly like the way they look. You are absolutely right, they don't match the environment and look very out of place. But if it's your cup of tea, TS4 can be made to look more realistic.
I want a game where not only the emotions and interactions between the Sims will be improved (from Sims 2 and Sims 3) but the art style, too. I want moving hair, curtains which swing in the wind if the window is open, truly wet Sims when it´s raining.... I want more detail in the grass and the trees, in the structure of the textures and patterns!
I don´t understand why this is seen as uncanny valley! Are people not able to distinguish between a game they are playing and reality? Do people really think about this pixel characters as "somehow real people" and think that realistically Sims are what? Alive???
I really don´t get the argument that The Sims were always meant to be cartoonish as well. Who said that?
I think that the Sims in Sims 2 just look as cartoonish as they do is attributabled to the specs of the computers a decade ago! If they were able to create more realistic looking Sims at that time I think they would have done them! Just the programs hindered them!
So saying that the Sims were meant as cartoonish pixel people is just an argument to defend the awful art style they´ve chosen for Sims 4.
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/953447/streuner-a-cat-s-tale
I know, I'm sorry I wasn't trying to mock your choices or anything, I just wanted to point out "Here, this is what I meant, but in picture form."
PoppySims Archive
InnaLisa Pose Archive
Devolution of Sims - a once customisable open world sandbox which has become a DLC Party catalog in a shoebox
I ♡ Pudding
I think we can all be in consensus that what we want for future game is more detail. Realism means better textures, colour and shading in scenery and objects. When I think of TS4 all I see in my mind is flat, plastic-looking surfaces. I probably would have enjoyed looking at it more if I modded it like in mystybl95's pictures.
Also to add; I don't see how they could make a true sims game with hyper "uncanny valley" realism, seeing as we love our sim's goofy expressions. Maybe not as goofy as the Strangerville sim though lol.
You'd think they'd have learned that by now. Cross fingers for #5 that there might be hair that looks a bit smoother. ( and moves )
PoppySims Archive
InnaLisa Pose Archive
Devolution of Sims - a once customisable open world sandbox which has become a DLC Party catalog in a shoebox
I ♡ Pudding
The reason I didn't vote is because I really don't care what they do for a future sims game because, as I said in my first comment on this thread, I am not willing to wait the years it would take for the game to be fully patched and modded to my taste.
I'm actually okay with a little cartoony. I remember never being happy with how my TS2 sims looked but it never stopped me from absolutely loving the game.
Zumi and the Winchester Brothers
The Watcher's Caretaker - A Limited ISBI
TS4 sims, I just would end up torturing (in the vein of Gray Still Plays) I have no attachment to TS4 sims. If a modder came up with a mod to inflict a “Disasters&Blessings” type torture mod; TS4 sims would meet a nasty end in every single one of my TS4 games. :evil maniacal laughter:
Nikkei sad no explodey things in TS4. Very disappointed. Nikkei stick to TS3 where lots of fun things that go boom like meteors, det packs. Nikkei very happy with TS3. Maybe sims not happy but Nikkei happy -very important to keep Nikkei happy.
On a more serious note:
I agree with @Deshong04 that Uncanny Valley is just an imaginary concept to deal with some people’s uncomfortable-ness with dealing with characters in a game or robots that are made to appear close to realistic human. Believe me, when someone gets into a FPS (first-person shooter) you’re not worrying about whether, “oh no, I’m doing something that’s horrible to another human being”. It’s a target and you aim and fire two shots center mass. Me I wouldn’t mind seeing just how far Sims 5 can push the graphics envelope.
And frankly yeah It may be disturbing to others to hear but I can make the distinction between a sim in a game and a real human being. And I won’t hesitate to inflict torturous pains on the former while respecting the rights to live of the latter.
Realistic cow-plant being nightmare fuel?
No more nightmarish than any of the spiders encountered in Dragon Age.
@Damienf519 unless you have an inside scoop as to what Will Wright intended; your “to tell you the truth” is in effect just a supposition. In fact none of us are certain as to what Will Wright would have wanted should he have continued to helm Maxis. And THAT is the truth.
The last game Will Wright had input with was Sims 2. Sims 3 was entirely EA/Maxis by which time Will Wright had left the company so TS3 was the experimental direction in which EA had wanted to go at the time - which leaned towards realism. But unfortunately EA found out that the technology at the time wasn’t up to the standard that they wanted to pursue or it would have knocked it out of the park.
Now we have technology that can push the envelope of hyper-reality. But instead of trying again to push the limits they decided to take 10 steps backwards and deliver us a game that looked like a colourist tripping on acid vomited up on a 2D cartoon along with missing key elements of gameplay and enthusing pver “how smoothly it played”. Now after multiple stuff, game and expansion packs, you’re now complaining about lag, game-breaking errors and multiple “Series of Unfortunate Events” which makes TS4 just as buggy as you continue to complain that TS3 is.
We can see exactly through other games just how good graphics and gameplay can actually combine together. Good gameplay and good graphics are not mutually exclusive terms. When I hear of people telling me that you can have good gameplay at the cost of good graphics or vice versa all I hear are EXCUSES! And a development group NOT WILLING TO PUT IN THE WORK necessary to make this a truly AAA title and THAT DISGUSTS ME.
You can see what a development group who puts everything into their work and pride of effort can come up with in this image below!
FS2020 is going to be run on a 24/7 online server because it cannot run self-contained on a consumer PC. What we end up doing is buying access to the flight sim server to fly around a vast open world.
And unfortunately, that is the future of this game as well if anyone is wanting online play. It will end up being online access to a server to run the game. And if they plan to mollify the people that they’ve alienated, EA is going to have to take a step in the other direction or this game is going to sink. And Sims will join the ever increasing list of titles on the trash-heap.
Always "River McIrish" ...and maybe some Bebe Hart. ~innocent expression~
I agree, and I don't think there is anything more to say. So a mod can lock this thread if they want.
Uncanny valley is the stupid dead stare that every character has. It has nothing to do with people thinking they're real. It's that they look real, but the eyes are disturbing to look at because they're dead.
This is the reason I don't like hyper-realistic characters. It's completely because no one can get the eyes to look human. If characters looked like that one AI pop star that no one can tell is computer generated, I'd freaking love the hyper realism. Unfortunately, gaming companies don't spend cash like that on character development, though the sims certainly should.
Dictionary Definition of Uncanny Valley
un·can·ny val·ley
noun
used in reference to the phenomenon whereby a computer-generated figure or humanoid robot bearing a near-identical resemblance to a human being arouses a sense of unease or revulsion in the person viewing it.
"anyone attempting to build a believable human facsimile also has to beware of the uncanny valley"
As far as the “Dead Eyes” are concerned it has never bothered me. Laybe it’s because of decades of playing video games back when graphics were lines, triangles and dots.
What we have in graphics is eons ahead of what we had in the 70s. To have any “intelligence and life” behind those sim eyes would have to have a thinking intelligence behind them. And believe me, if there’s a thinking intelligence behind those eyes, you’d have a hell of a lot more to worry about than some game aesthetics.
Might want to read up on Stephen Hawking’s views regarding artificial intelligence.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/11/06/stephen-hawking-ai-could-be-worst-event-in-civilization.html
So I’d just be happy with dead-eyed stare sims that I can imagine are real than ones who are thinking up of ways to kill me because I put up a fence around a pool and left them to drown.
Always "River McIrish" ...and maybe some Bebe Hart. ~innocent expression~
There was a mod ages ago, can't remember if it was for TS2 or TS3 that changed the position of the eyes in cas and it was such an improvement on the dead stare...I loved it.