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Drama of the week! Do you agree with the stopEAabuse hashtag?

Comments

  • ScobreScobre Posts: 19,595 Member
    I like #EAlisten more than #stopEAabuse

    Oh I agree, I was referring to little kids.Teens can have third freedom.
    I think that is why people question if Sims 4 target market are teens or children? Children need to be told how to handle their money because they can't earn it themselves or understand the concept of money management. Sims 4 is supposed to be rated teen and honestly with all the ❤️❤️❤️❤️ drama this year I don't think having the game target little kids is a good choice. Money isn't a problem with me either and I handle all my finances myself with bookkeeping and taxes. I think there are many reasons for people to support the EA listen hashtag beyond just the Sims franchise. Loot boxes towards kids with some of the other games are a huge cause for concern. I just know when I have kids and they want DLC or loot boxes they are going to work for them like I did. I appreciate that my sister is teaching that with my nephew now after the MLP incident. He works hard for his games and going to prepare him for when he is old enough to play Sims this year. I got him the Sims 4 when it was free this year.

    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • GalacticGalGalacticGal Posts: 17,078 Member
    I think there are better solutions (tell in comments)
    If you are that unhappy, stop buying the product! Money talks, more loudly than any words or hashtags.
    You can download (free) all three volumes of my Night Whispers Star Trek Fanfiction here: http://galacticgal.deviantart.com/gallery/ You'll need to have a pdf reader. New websites: http://www.trekkiefanfiction.com/st-tos.php
    http://www.getfreeebooks.com/star-trek-original-series-fan-fiction-trilogy/
  • RebeccaThurstonRebeccaThurston Posts: 186 Member
    edited October 2019
    I think it is totally unnecessary
    Nevermind - sorry...
  • RebeccaThurstonRebeccaThurston Posts: 186 Member
    I think it is totally unnecessary
    Clownling wrote: »
    As someone who was abused for about 9-10 years of my early life by various people, I didn't immediately think "EA is being violent" by the wording. When I grew up, and even nowadays, children shout "ABUSE" at literally anything they see, because they've made it into a joke already. This is not on that level- EA is mistreating their fans who have been here for years, and considering how much you have to pay even for just the base game, which includes way less than most games that price do, it's understandable people are upset! They're being mistreated, and swept under the rug!

    I think EA really does need to focus on fixing the main game instead of releasing pack after pack after pack- A pack was just released and they're moving onto the next and haven't been giving practically any major game play stuff, nor traits, nor personalities, nor more options than what we have now. The fact you had to pay money to do anything WITH the toddlers was tiring. The fact you have to spend easily over $200 (CAD) to get enough interesting things to do with your sims to play for more than just simply making a story is tiring. I loved Strangeville because it wrote a story by itself that you could follow, but even IT was lacking outside of that town.

    Something needs to happen here, and maybe this protest isn't the BEST way to do it with how vaguely the wants are worded, but there's a lot to be fixed. Honestly, I'd love it if they stopped making packs for a little bit as they improved main game play features- I think a lot of people would, as it'd give their wallets a rest too.

    Sorry if this is roughly worded, but most of my friends, whom have also went through abuse, wouldn't immediately assume the tag was for violence either. But EAListen is a good tag too. And from Merriam-Webster:

    noun
    1: a corrupt practice or custom
    2: improper or excessive use or treatment

    verb
    1: to put to a wrong or improper use

    ...And you could easily make an argument as to how EA is misusing their fans and power.


    I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but - toddlers was a free update.
  • RebeccaThurstonRebeccaThurston Posts: 186 Member
    I think it is totally unnecessary
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    ::Rolls eyes at the entitlement:: Things like prescription drugs, clean water, safe housing, yes. Video games, no. If the game isn't fun anymore, find another hobby. (I did, when the game came out without my toddlers.)

    In one way I can also vote for stopthesabuse since EA employees and others representing EA have made comments I felt were verbably abusive to the core fanbase who helped put this series on the map for them. I have known some to call individuals names, or label them with names which isn't the job of an EA employee but an opinion and their opinions of a consumer should not be a reason to insult one. EA employees, no matter who it is, should keep their mouths shut and not rule or decide things on a personal opinion of someone's motivation and not say to consumers what opinion they have of them. Whether that's on Reddit or Twitter, in an email or here.

    If that was the experience of the majority of players that deal with EA (regardless of the franchise) then the hastag would make far more sense. That is not a good way for any company to deal with their customers.
    Well...

    I know the hashtag is used by Sims players who are unhappy with what’s happening to the game, but I think there is this background that takes it much further than just the here and now.

    I didn't realize you had linked an article. I read it after my initial response but I can't really comment on it as I never played any of those games to know what kind of impact it had. I can only work from second hand knowledge.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,951 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    ::Rolls eyes at the entitlement:: Things like prescription drugs, clean water, safe housing, yes. Video games, no. If the game isn't fun anymore, find another hobby. (I did, when the game came out without my toddlers.)

    In one way I can also vote for stopthesabuse since EA employees and others representing EA have made comments I felt were verbably abusive to the core fanbase who helped put this series on the map for them. I have known some to call individuals names, or label them with names which isn't the job of an EA employee but an opinion and their opinions of a consumer should not be a reason to insult one. EA employees, no matter who it is, should keep their mouths shut and not rule or decide things on a personal opinion of someone's motivation and not say to consumers what opinion they have of them. Whether that's on Reddit or Twitter, in an email or here.

    If that was the experience of the majority of players that deal with EA (regardless of the franchise) then the hastag would make far more sense. That is not a good way for any company to deal with their customers.
    Well...

    I know the hashtag is used by Sims players who are unhappy with what’s happening to the game, but I think there is this background that takes it much further than just the here and now.

    I didn't realize you had linked an article. I read it after my initial response but I can't really comment on it as I never played any of those games to know what kind of impact it had. I can only work from second hand knowledge.
    Me neither but as you can see this dissatisfaction started in 2013, a year before Sims 4 was released. So (and this is also to those who keep bringing up "don't buy the game and let your closed wallet be the solution") this hashtag isn't just about Sims 4, I don't think so. I keep my wallet closed by the way and I've been waiting for the promised miracle to happen, but unfortunately: no successor yet, they threaten to continue the game for another three years at least and instead of improving, even gamechangers have turned all critical now.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • RebeccaThurstonRebeccaThurston Posts: 186 Member
    I think it is totally unnecessary
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    ::Rolls eyes at the entitlement:: Things like prescription drugs, clean water, safe housing, yes. Video games, no. If the game isn't fun anymore, find another hobby. (I did, when the game came out without my toddlers.)

    In one way I can also vote for stopthesabuse since EA employees and others representing EA have made comments I felt were verbably abusive to the core fanbase who helped put this series on the map for them. I have known some to call individuals names, or label them with names which isn't the job of an EA employee but an opinion and their opinions of a consumer should not be a reason to insult one. EA employees, no matter who it is, should keep their mouths shut and not rule or decide things on a personal opinion of someone's motivation and not say to consumers what opinion they have of them. Whether that's on Reddit or Twitter, in an email or here.

    If that was the experience of the majority of players that deal with EA (regardless of the franchise) then the hastag would make far more sense. That is not a good way for any company to deal with their customers.
    Well...

    I know the hashtag is used by Sims players who are unhappy with what’s happening to the game, but I think there is this background that takes it much further than just the here and now.

    I didn't realize you had linked an article. I read it after my initial response but I can't really comment on it as I never played any of those games to know what kind of impact it had. I can only work from second hand knowledge.
    Me neither but as you can see this dissatisfaction started in 2013, a year before Sims 4 was released. So (and this is also to those who keep bringing up "don't buy the game and let your closed wallet be the solution") this hashtag isn't just about Sims 4, I don't think so. I keep my wallet closed by the way and I've been waiting for the promised miracle to happen, but unfortunately: no successor yet, they threaten to continue the game for another three years at least and instead of improving, even gamechangers have turned all critical now.


    I have to be honest. I will buy Sims related games / expansions /stuff packs when they come out. I may disapprove of EA but then i think of all the enjoyment I do get out of the franchise (regardless of which Sims game we are talking about) and it far outweighs the negative. But I can only speak for myself. Other people have to make their own choice. However, as long as people like me exist, the people that created this hashtag are not representative of all players.

    Which brings up an interesting topic. Am I the minority or part of the majority when it comes to Simmers?

    If I am part of the majority that are (in general) happy with the game then that might explain why EA doesn't seem to be listening. Also, what percentage of players are unhappy? Is it a very vocal 15% or is it a more serious 45%?

    Then there is the voting with your wallet. That is a good idea. However, that only works if EA knows that's the reason why you no longer will be buying their product. The players that started this protest were letting EA know so I suppose that's a good thing IF they really don't buy an EA product in the future. And that's kind of a tough one because EA has their hand in some very popular titles.

    In a way, a subscription based model has it much easier. If you get a huge number of cancellations after an unpopular patch goes through it's easier to pinpoint the source of the cancellations. Here, if someone doesn't buy an expansion is it because they are protesting or is it because they simply didn't like the content in the expansion? (Some people didn't like laundry in their game so didn't support them adding a laundry pack. They probably didn't buy it in that case but may have bought the next one). Some people may support the idea of what is going to be added but not the execution, in which case EA may not listen then either because the idea had support even if it didn't meet expectations.

    If I am in the minority though in being generally happy with the franchise, that's much more serious. Then they need to pinpoint what exactly is making them unhappy. But sometimes it's ambiguous. People say "Fix bugs" but which bug? People say "Add content!" but which content? We need not only consensus but also be able to show understanding if we don't get what we want.

    I'm sorry, I know that it must seem that I am apologizing and making excuses for EA. But I am just trying to look at the bigger picture as well as from their perspective because it might explain why we don't see the changes we want to see.
  • RebeccaThurstonRebeccaThurston Posts: 186 Member
    I think it is totally unnecessary
    keekee53 wrote: »
    Felicity wrote: »
    MissyHissy wrote: »
    The hash tag is not about content specific. It’s about how EA treat their customers. It’s about their treatment of a twenty year franchise.

    I was also referring to the word 'abuse' which is melodramatic when it comes down to a choice of whether you buy games or not. EA aren't bullying or threatening anyone to buy their content, therefore it's not abuse of the customers. Yeah, it's milking them but don't all gaming companies do that, one way or another?
    If you don't approve of EA's methods, don't buy their games. It doesn't sound helpful I know but it's still a valid point. The top bosses at EA are more likely to take notice of mass sales drops (strength in numbers, like you said) than they are of Twitter hashtags, surely? How many senior producers will pay attention to a StopEAAbuse tag? Not many, I wouldn't imagine.
    But don’t thank EA for ruining this franchise, nor any of the franchises before it, nor any of them after it. They don’t deserve gratification

    That is an opinion, not a global fact. Some people might feel they do deserve a thank you for certain things. If it's right for people who don't like elements of the content to shout out, then it's also right for those who are happy with content to shout out too. Otherwise, the balance tips the other way again and nobody gets anywhere.

    Tell that to fans of Sim city, dungeon keeper, bullfrog games, dead space and FIFA. All games EA have plum the souls out of or downright destroyed never to be seen again. My Husband is a game developer for a AAA studio - EA do not have a good reputation among his colleagues and the gaming industry. That is a fact. EA have been in trouble recently for loot boxes and gambling in games aimed at children. Again that is a fact and many people in the industry and gamers think they are disgusting. I don’t know if you remember when EA used the phrase “EA, it’s in the Game” well now it should be “EA, it’s out in the game, in loot boxes”
    Their reputation is 100% deserved.
    Edit to add as you have added - yes a hashtag thanking Ea most likely would lead to ridicule for the reasons above - I’m not suggesting I personally would ridicule you, I’m not that way inclined. If you want to thank EA and start a hashtag feel free.

    I agree a hash tag may not change much in the future for the sims but the Simming community showing discontent for once is not a bad thing. As a community, generally speaking it’s very passive.

    I play lots of different game genres, there are ones that try and milk their games with scummy monetisation practices but it’s not fair to say they all do that. Some games I’ve played this year off the top of my head -Kingdom Hearts 3, Resident Evil 2, Layers of fear 2, Days Gone, The Last of Us, Until Dawn, Man of Medan, Detroit Become Human, My Time at Portia all are complete games (or in the case of my time at Portia is still being developed but the devs have gave us so much for free in major updates it would be really unfair to say they are milking fans) None of those games have people complaining the way simmers are behind the hashtag. They aren’t perfect but you can’t accuse those devs of milking fans. So I can’t agree that all devs do it. Some definitely do - Activision and Frontier I’m looking at you! But it shouldn’t be considered okay or normal.

    You left out Bioware! Ah, the developer who brought us Baldur's Gate have, under EA's tutelage, evolved to bring us such gems as Anthem and Mass Effect: Andromeda.

    Big spenders are a small minority of total gamers, but they make far more for the company than sales do. Which means more and more games will be designed to keeping the whales as addicted as possible to the detriment of the rest of the game. They want all their games on line, to be live services, so whales have a reason to spend to be the best (or prettiest, because cosmetics do matter).

    The bonus for me, though, as a consumer is I'm not interested in these substandard games so my laptop should last me a few more years as a gaming rig :) Sims 4 will continue to run well, and if there's a Sims 5, I'll probably still be fine.

    The thing is, not all games are falling into this. I don't think Outerworlds is going to and I can pretty much guarantee that CP2077 will not. Publishers can make huge profits without microtransactions, but huge profits apparently are not enough for most.

    I agree.

    EA MURDERED Bioware. Bioware is working on Dragon Age 4 now. I have already heard bad rumors of EA forcing Bioware to use the Frostbite engine which is great for shooters but horrible for RPGs. I used to preorder Bioware games and now I will sit and wait until after release and get all the spoilers to make sure it is worth my time. I got burned by Andromeda and then they SHELVED it leaving all those open questions. When EA first took Bioware over, Dragon Age 2 was a mess with repeating maps, Mass Effect 3 had a terrible ending, Dragon Age Inquisition had a great story but all this open space with nothing but boring fluff quest and it just got worse and worse. I have been playing Assassin's Creed Odyssey and the whole game is amazing even the side quests are interesting. The choices I made had totally different outcomes then what I saw my husband play in the same scenario. I watch my husband play Witcher 3 and I was amazed how the world changed based on his decisions. EA definitely needs to step up and stop doing the bare minimal. This is why I have no faith in Sims 5.

    I was a fan of BioWare until they sold out. Now that they have done that, they deserve what they get.
  • SimmyFroggySimmyFroggy Posts: 1,759 Member
    I like #EAlisten more than #stopEAabuse
    Just wanted to chime in on the discussion about children/teens and purchases within games etc.

    Full disclaimer: I don't know how loot boxes work in the games that have them but I know about TS4 and Origin. I also don't know how accounts work on consoles when it comes to younger kids. On a child account (which is for everyone under the age of 13), there's no access to anything online, which includes the store. The accounts are protected to the point where not even the parent account can either friend them or send them gifts (which is honestly infuriating because that really should be an exception on those accounts). The only way to add games to it is to buy them physically in a store or have a code from a purchase online. By default, kids with appropriate accounts play offline and don't have cards attached to their accounts.
    Those kids couldn't even get the free TS4 when it was available.

    That part, if parents with kids under 13 (or older in some EU countries after the GDPR laws were introduced) aren't aware of their accounts having a false date of birth information, is not on the company. The same way parents can turn off in-app purchases on their kids' phones for mobile games. Of course, many parents don't do this and end up with either massive bills or kids playing games that are age-inappropriate (I'm gonna try to stay off my soapbox about this, not sure I'll succeed, it's a major pet peeve).

    In general, I think loot boxes and microtransactions, regardless of who they're aimed at, are most definitely anti-customer, favoring those who have the money, encouraging an atmosphere that I personally hate. (akin to kids in school who have the newest brand shoes vs those who don't) So I'm absolutely not for those game mechanics, ever, as they tend to suck the fun out of games (for me, at least) and make them frustrating.
    But the mechanics to protect kids, especially the younger ones, already exist. And from my experience, some of the uproar tends to be parents trying to shift the blame for what is on them. A game having the loot boxes in the game shouldn't (and, as far as I'm aware when it comes to Origin, doesn't) make those available to accounts that are marked as child ones.

    I'm not defending either EA or loot boxes in general, just wanted to point out my view as a parent. (my kid is 12. she has no way of purchasing anything online without my explicit approval. I don't stop her if it's her money or if it's a reasonable request but I also don't leave her free to use my account).
    avatar art: Loves2draw1812
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,951 Member
    edited October 2019
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    ::Rolls eyes at the entitlement:: Things like prescription drugs, clean water, safe housing, yes. Video games, no. If the game isn't fun anymore, find another hobby. (I did, when the game came out without my toddlers.)

    In one way I can also vote for stopthesabuse since EA employees and others representing EA have made comments I felt were verbably abusive to the core fanbase who helped put this series on the map for them. I have known some to call individuals names, or label them with names which isn't the job of an EA employee but an opinion and their opinions of a consumer should not be a reason to insult one. EA employees, no matter who it is, should keep their mouths shut and not rule or decide things on a personal opinion of someone's motivation and not say to consumers what opinion they have of them. Whether that's on Reddit or Twitter, in an email or here.

    If that was the experience of the majority of players that deal with EA (regardless of the franchise) then the hastag would make far more sense. That is not a good way for any company to deal with their customers.
    Well...

    I know the hashtag is used by Sims players who are unhappy with what’s happening to the game, but I think there is this background that takes it much further than just the here and now.

    I didn't realize you had linked an article. I read it after my initial response but I can't really comment on it as I never played any of those games to know what kind of impact it had. I can only work from second hand knowledge.
    Me neither but as you can see this dissatisfaction started in 2013, a year before Sims 4 was released. So (and this is also to those who keep bringing up "don't buy the game and let your closed wallet be the solution") this hashtag isn't just about Sims 4, I don't think so. I keep my wallet closed by the way and I've been waiting for the promised miracle to happen, but unfortunately: no successor yet, they threaten to continue the game for another three years at least and instead of improving, even gamechangers have turned all critical now.


    I have to be honest. I will buy Sims related games / expansions /stuff packs when they come out. I may disapprove of EA but then i think of all the enjoyment I do get out of the franchise (regardless of which Sims game we are talking about) and it far outweighs the negative. But I can only speak for myself. Other people have to make their own choice. However, as long as people like me exist, the people that created this hashtag are not representative of all players.

    Which brings up an interesting topic. Am I the minority or part of the majority when it comes to Simmers?

    If I am part of the majority that are (in general) happy with the game then that might explain why EA doesn't seem to be listening. Also, what percentage of players are unhappy? Is it a very vocal 15% or is it a more serious 45%?

    Then there is the voting with your wallet. That is a good idea. However, that only works if EA knows that's the reason why you no longer will be buying their product. The players that started this protest were letting EA know so I suppose that's a good thing IF they really don't buy an EA product in the future. And that's kind of a tough one because EA has their hand in some very popular titles.

    In a way, a subscription based model has it much easier. If you get a huge number of cancellations after an unpopular patch goes through it's easier to pinpoint the source of the cancellations. Here, if someone doesn't buy an expansion is it because they are protesting or is it because they simply didn't like the content in the expansion? (Some people didn't like laundry in their game so didn't support them adding a laundry pack. They probably didn't buy it in that case but may have bought the next one). Some people may support the idea of what is going to be added but not the execution, in which case EA may not listen then either because the idea had support even if it didn't meet expectations.

    If I am in the minority though in being generally happy with the franchise, that's much more serious. Then they need to pinpoint what exactly is making them unhappy. But sometimes it's ambiguous. People say "Fix bugs" but which bug? People say "Add content!" but which content? We need not only consensus but also be able to show understanding if we don't get what we want.

    I'm sorry, I know that it must seem that I am apologizing and making excuses for EA. But I am just trying to look at the bigger picture as well as from their perspective because it might explain why we don't see the changes we want to see.
    I’m like you, when I like a game I buy, also when I know they’re milking me. I did that between 2010 and 2014. It meant I paid way too much on something I loved having. No regrets, I’ve played Sims 3 for almost ten years now, having fun with everything in there, enjoying every Store world I bought. Had experiences with my sims I wouldn’t have had if I hadn’t bought those worlds.

    Was it ok that one world cost me a bundle of € X,- (sorry, don’t even remember what it actually cost me but I remember having to buy not only the world but also a bundle with extra points I spent on trish trash, some of it I still use, some of it is just wasting space in folders)? No, that was not ok.

    This hashtag actually is not for people who don’t like this game. When I say I vote with my wallet, that’s actually nonsense. I’m not voting, I just completely lost interest. Genuinely, I can’t be bothered. I’m not EA’s victim where it comes to their current game. I was when I loved their game.

    The reason I still support the hashtag (the new one, the old one is counterproductive) is that I may not be interested in this latest version of the game, I am interested in the franchise as a whole. And I hate what they’re doing to it.

    The problem is that people seem to think majorities are always right. They are not.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • RebeccaThurstonRebeccaThurston Posts: 186 Member
    edited October 2019
    I think it is totally unnecessary
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    ::Rolls eyes at the entitlement:: Things like prescription drugs, clean water, safe housing, yes. Video games, no. If the game isn't fun anymore, find another hobby. (I did, when the game came out without my toddlers.)

    In one way I can also vote for stopthesabuse since EA employees and others representing EA have made comments I felt were verbably abusive to the core fanbase who helped put this series on the map for them. I have known some to call individuals names, or label them with names which isn't the job of an EA employee but an opinion and their opinions of a consumer should not be a reason to insult one. EA employees, no matter who it is, should keep their mouths shut and not rule or decide things on a personal opinion of someone's motivation and not say to consumers what opinion they have of them. Whether that's on Reddit or Twitter, in an email or here.

    If that was the experience of the majority of players that deal with EA (regardless of the franchise) then the hastag would make far more sense. That is not a good way for any company to deal with their customers.
    Well...

    I know the hashtag is used by Sims players who are unhappy with what’s happening to the game, but I think there is this background that takes it much further than just the here and now.

    I didn't realize you had linked an article. I read it after my initial response but I can't really comment on it as I never played any of those games to know what kind of impact it had. I can only work from second hand knowledge.
    Me neither but as you can see this dissatisfaction started in 2013, a year before Sims 4 was released. So (and this is also to those who keep bringing up "don't buy the game and let your closed wallet be the solution") this hashtag isn't just about Sims 4, I don't think so. I keep my wallet closed by the way and I've been waiting for the promised miracle to happen, but unfortunately: no successor yet, they threaten to continue the game for another three years at least and instead of improving, even gamechangers have turned all critical now.


    I have to be honest. I will buy Sims related games / expansions /stuff packs when they come out. I may disapprove of EA but then i think of all the enjoyment I do get out of the franchise (regardless of which Sims game we are talking about) and it far outweighs the negative. But I can only speak for myself. Other people have to make their own choice. However, as long as people like me exist, the people that created this hashtag are not representative of all players.

    Which brings up an interesting topic. Am I the minority or part of the majority when it comes to Simmers?

    If I am part of the majority that are (in general) happy with the game then that might explain why EA doesn't seem to be listening. Also, what percentage of players are unhappy? Is it a very vocal 15% or is it a more serious 45%?

    Then there is the voting with your wallet. That is a good idea. However, that only works if EA knows that's the reason why you no longer will be buying their product. The players that started this protest were letting EA know so I suppose that's a good thing IF they really don't buy an EA product in the future. And that's kind of a tough one because EA has their hand in some very popular titles.

    In a way, a subscription based model has it much easier. If you get a huge number of cancellations after an unpopular patch goes through it's easier to pinpoint the source of the cancellations. Here, if someone doesn't buy an expansion is it because they are protesting or is it because they simply didn't like the content in the expansion? (Some people didn't like laundry in their game so didn't support them adding a laundry pack. They probably didn't buy it in that case but may have bought the next one). Some people may support the idea of what is going to be added but not the execution, in which case EA may not listen then either because the idea had support even if it didn't meet expectations.

    If I am in the minority though in being generally happy with the franchise, that's much more serious. Then they need to pinpoint what exactly is making them unhappy. But sometimes it's ambiguous. People say "Fix bugs" but which bug? People say "Add content!" but which content? We need not only consensus but also be able to show understanding if we don't get what we want.

    I'm sorry, I know that it must seem that I am apologizing and making excuses for EA. But I am just trying to look at the bigger picture as well as from their perspective because it might explain why we don't see the changes we want to see.
    I’m like you, when I like a game I buy, also when I know they’re milking me. I did that between 2010 and 2014. It meant I paid way too much on something I loved having. No regrets, I’ve played Sims 3 for almost ten years now, having fun with everything in there, enjoying every Store world I bought. Had experiences with my sims I wouldn’t have had if I hadn’t bought those worlds.

    Was it ok that one world cost me a bundle of € X,- (sorry, don’t even remember what it actually cost me but I remember having to buy not only the world but also a bundle with extra points I spent on trish trash, some of it I still use, some of it is just wasting space in folders)? No, that was not ok.

    This hashtag actually is not for people who don’t like this game. When I say I vote with my wallet, that’s actually nonsense. I’m not voting, I just completely lost interest. Genuinely, I can’t be bothered. I’m not EA’s victim where it comes to their current game. I was when I loved their game.

    The reason I still support the hashtag (the new one, the old one is counterproductive) is that I may not be interested in this latest version of the game, I am interested in the franchise as a whole. And I hate what they’re doing to it.

    The problem is that people seem to think majorities are always right. They are not.


    You're right. The majority isn't always right. However when it comes to game companies if the majority is happy - or rather happy enough then it means they can say "Well people are still playing or buying our product so we must not be doing too badly" and carry on business as normal. Perhaps the happy players are the fly in the ointment so to speak because we give the devs a different view of the game environment.

    I am also like you - I have played the Sims for just as long - I think all the expansions were released for Sims 2 but the store for that was still open when I started playing. So a long time. I went to Sims 3 when it was released, hated it but then grew to love it. Sims 4, well it is lacking a lot that I got used to having but I don't think it's wrong that those things aren't there - because I don't feel they promised me they would be. I just miss them. Like the ability to customize your sim and their house. It seems like a step back that we can't do that now. However they did add some good things too like the emotion system that I think have merit.

    You mentioned not knowing for sure how much it cost you - I know how much the Sims 3 store content cost me - $2400 CAD (give or take) not including any of the expansions, stuff packs or base game. And I have all those. I wouldn't change that for anything as I too have fond memories of playing with all those shinies.

    And here is where I will be as honest with you as you were with me. I also hate what the franchise has become. For me it has become political. Appeasement releases to gain popularity with certain groups while leaving blatant gaps when it comes to others, such as religion. I can understand them not putting in mainstream world religions such as Christianity, Islam, etc and a lot of the symbols related to those faiths. But other games have gotten around this by creating their own religion specific to that franchise such as Everquest 2 and their deity system or the old Dungeons and Dragons with all their various gods. The avatars were able to choose from an assortment - good, evil or neutral. I would like to see that here in the Sims but if we ask for it? Too controversial and must be avoided. Yet I have seen the moderators have to go in and close threads about other controversial relaeases. When a large percentage of the world identifies with some sort of religion it seems very odd that the devs of this game would over look something so important, especially when considering this is supposed to be a life simulator. I also find it actually pretty ironic that people say "Just ignore it" to some things, yet wouldn't be able to just ignore religious themed items or interactions.

    I bring it up because I seen the reaction to the hijab. Some of the people that would have said about LGBT items to just ignore them were very quick to point out that they could not ignore that hijab if they saw a miscellaneous random sim wearing one. Seems to me like we have a long way to go for "tolerance".

    And no - I am not Muslim. And as a Christian, I don't want Christian symbols in the Sims. It would be inappropriate.
    Post edited by RebeccaThurston on
  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,907 Member
    edited October 2019
    I think it is totally unnecessary
    I actually love the game - it keeps me sane - so i do not feel they are milking anything but providing a service and product I totally enjoy using. To me that is providing a service I need and use, To me that is not wrong.

    I know people on both sides of the issue - but in personal family and friends I see more like me than the other side. I do think it makes a even bigger impact when people are like me - who cannot do other things and the product makes your life somehow a bit more meaningful. I do not know where I would be right now if it was not for this game seeing my real life is very limited. I think the majority of people are not limited like I am and so they are far more critical than they really should be. On top of it I am one of the lucky ones even as ill as I am because I don't see many of the issues that seem to plague a lot of players. I do not know why my game plays so well all the time - other than I do know how to keep my pc running like a charm and i don't use non-EA made content in my game. People disagree with me neither has a bearing on the game - but in my case it sure seems to - even if many try to tell me my game cannot possibly run as good as I say. Well - I just know it does. I play everyday and do not have issues.

    I play the game pretty much as designed and do not try and make it do things it was not designed to do by EA - perhaps that matters more than people know.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,951 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    ::Rolls eyes at the entitlement:: Things like prescription drugs, clean water, safe housing, yes. Video games, no. If the game isn't fun anymore, find another hobby. (I did, when the game came out without my toddlers.)

    In one way I can also vote for stopthesabuse since EA employees and others representing EA have made comments I felt were verbably abusive to the core fanbase who helped put this series on the map for them. I have known some to call individuals names, or label them with names which isn't the job of an EA employee but an opinion and their opinions of a consumer should not be a reason to insult one. EA employees, no matter who it is, should keep their mouths shut and not rule or decide things on a personal opinion of someone's motivation and not say to consumers what opinion they have of them. Whether that's on Reddit or Twitter, in an email or here.

    If that was the experience of the majority of players that deal with EA (regardless of the franchise) then the hastag would make far more sense. That is not a good way for any company to deal with their customers.
    Well...

    I know the hashtag is used by Sims players who are unhappy with what’s happening to the game, but I think there is this background that takes it much further than just the here and now.

    I didn't realize you had linked an article. I read it after my initial response but I can't really comment on it as I never played any of those games to know what kind of impact it had. I can only work from second hand knowledge.
    Me neither but as you can see this dissatisfaction started in 2013, a year before Sims 4 was released. So (and this is also to those who keep bringing up "don't buy the game and let your closed wallet be the solution") this hashtag isn't just about Sims 4, I don't think so. I keep my wallet closed by the way and I've been waiting for the promised miracle to happen, but unfortunately: no successor yet, they threaten to continue the game for another three years at least and instead of improving, even gamechangers have turned all critical now.


    I have to be honest. I will buy Sims related games / expansions /stuff packs when they come out. I may disapprove of EA but then i think of all the enjoyment I do get out of the franchise (regardless of which Sims game we are talking about) and it far outweighs the negative. But I can only speak for myself. Other people have to make their own choice. However, as long as people like me exist, the people that created this hashtag are not representative of all players.

    Which brings up an interesting topic. Am I the minority or part of the majority when it comes to Simmers?

    If I am part of the majority that are (in general) happy with the game then that might explain why EA doesn't seem to be listening. Also, what percentage of players are unhappy? Is it a very vocal 15% or is it a more serious 45%?

    Then there is the voting with your wallet. That is a good idea. However, that only works if EA knows that's the reason why you no longer will be buying their product. The players that started this protest were letting EA know so I suppose that's a good thing IF they really don't buy an EA product in the future. And that's kind of a tough one because EA has their hand in some very popular titles.

    In a way, a subscription based model has it much easier. If you get a huge number of cancellations after an unpopular patch goes through it's easier to pinpoint the source of the cancellations. Here, if someone doesn't buy an expansion is it because they are protesting or is it because they simply didn't like the content in the expansion? (Some people didn't like laundry in their game so didn't support them adding a laundry pack. They probably didn't buy it in that case but may have bought the next one). Some people may support the idea of what is going to be added but not the execution, in which case EA may not listen then either because the idea had support even if it didn't meet expectations.

    If I am in the minority though in being generally happy with the franchise, that's much more serious. Then they need to pinpoint what exactly is making them unhappy. But sometimes it's ambiguous. People say "Fix bugs" but which bug? People say "Add content!" but which content? We need not only consensus but also be able to show understanding if we don't get what we want.

    I'm sorry, I know that it must seem that I am apologizing and making excuses for EA. But I am just trying to look at the bigger picture as well as from their perspective because it might explain why we don't see the changes we want to see.
    I’m like you, when I like a game I buy, also when I know they’re milking me. I did that between 2010 and 2014. It meant I paid way too much on something I loved having. No regrets, I’ve played Sims 3 for almost ten years now, having fun with everything in there, enjoying every Store world I bought. Had experiences with my sims I wouldn’t have had if I hadn’t bought those worlds.

    Was it ok that one world cost me a bundle of € X,- (sorry, don’t even remember what it actually cost me but I remember having to buy not only the world but also a bundle with extra points I spent on trish trash, some of it I still use, some of it is just wasting space in folders)? No, that was not ok.

    This hashtag actually is not for people who don’t like this game. When I say I vote with my wallet, that’s actually nonsense. I’m not voting, I just completely lost interest. Genuinely, I can’t be bothered. I’m not EA’s victim where it comes to their current game. I was when I loved their game.

    The reason I still support the hashtag (the new one, the old one is counterproductive) is that I may not be interested in this latest version of the game, I am interested in the franchise as a whole. And I hate what they’re doing to it.

    The problem is that people seem to think majorities are always right. They are not.


    You're right. The majority isn't always right. However when it comes to game companies if the majority is happy - or rather happy enough then it means they can say "Well people are still playing or buying our product so we must not be doing too badly" and carry on business as normal. Perhaps the happy players are the fly in the ointment so to speak because we give the devs a different view of the game environment.

    I am also like you - I have played the Sims for just as long - I think all the expansions were released for Sims 2 but the store for that was still open when I started playing. So a long time. I went to Sims 3 when it was released, hated it but then grew to love it. Sims 4, well it is lacking a lot that I got used to having but I don't think it's wrong that those things aren't there - because I don't feel they promised me they would be. I just miss them. Like the ability to customize your sim and their house. It seems like a step back that we can't do that now. However they did add some good things too like the emotion system that I think have merit.

    You mentioned not knowing for sure how much it cost you - I know how much the Sims 3 store content cost me - $2400 CAD (give or take) not including any of the expansions, stuff packs or base game. And I have all those. I wouldn't change that for anything as I too have fond memories of playing with all those shinies.

    And here is where I will be as honest with you as you were with me. I also hate what the franchise has become. For me it has become political. Appeasement releases to gain popularity with certain groups while leaving blatant gaps when it comes to others, such as religion. I can understand them not putting in mainstream world religions such as Christianity, Muslim, etc and a lot of the symbols related to those faiths. But other games have gotten around this by creating their own religion specific to that franchise such as Everquest 2 and their deity system or the old Dungeons and Dragons with all their various gods. The avatars were able to choose from an assortment - good, evil or neutral. I would like to see that here in the Sims but if we ask for it? Too controversial and must be avoided. Yet I have seen the moderators have to go in and close threads about other controversial relaeases. When a large percentage of the world identifies with some sort of religion it seems very odd that the devs of this game would over look something so important, especially when considering this is supposed to be a life simulator. I also find it actually pretty ironic that people say "Just ignore it" to some things, yet wouldn't be able to just ignore religious themed items or interactions.

    I bring it up because I seen the reaction to the hijab. Some of the people that would have said about LGBT items to just ignore them were very quick to point out that they could not ignore that hijab if they saw a miscellaneous random sim wearing one. Seems to me like we have a long way to go for "tolerance".

    And no - I am not Muslim. And as a Christian, I don't want Christian symbols in the Sims. It would be inappropriate.
    I would love it if there would be some sort of religious 'idea' in the series, something everybody can relate to (religion is part of human life, an important part, regardless if you're religious yourself or not) without it being one specific religion.

    The problem with trying to include everyone is that you simply can't (I think we agree there?). There will always be a group that will feel left out and the more you claim to be including, the more groups that are not included will feel neglected.

    My personal concern at this moment is based on what I hear Sims 4 players, people who love the game, stating by the way. I don't play the game anymore so that's actually my only source. The first five years it was a matter of the game just not being my cup of tea, but that's personal. I know the very same thing goes for others where it comes to Sims 3. The emotion system for me is a flaw, because they based it on triggers that have nothing to do with having or causing an emotion. Taking a shower, watching a painting, passing by a waterfall. I love the emotions as such but I dislike that system. Also because on one hand the emotions are too easy to handle and on the other hand they're all over the place, constantly changing. That's my experience anyway. They indeed never promised to include an open world or CASt, but even though for me that definitely is an issue (never realized it but it turns out to be very important to me), I know it isn't for others and I think I could perfectly live with it if I'd love that emotion system, or the sims, and if there would be great and challenging strategies.

    What I don't 'trust' right now, is the recycling of features and the recolours of stuff that was already in there (the strangest thing from the perspective of a Sims 3 player as you may understand). I was very frustrated when I learned they were planning to make Sims 4 last for another 3 years at least, but that was just my personal frustration. I understood and appreciated for others that was great news (I didn't appreciate the triumphant tone at times by the way, as if people felt they deserved this for some reason). But if the second half of this edition will mean making people pay for old wine in new bottles and a lot of set dressing (not saying it is but it's what I hear from players here and since recently gamechangers even), then this hashtag is justified. EA has a monopoly position with this franchise, players have nowhere to go if they want to play a game like this. It's either this or nothing. So people play the old games, or they accept Sims 4 for what it is. Doesn't mean they all enjoy it the way they could if it was a really good game. The fact tweets from Paralives get 14K likes does say something of course. People are clearly ready for something else, for some competiton. Whether they're right about that or not is another story.

    (the Store never cost me that much by the way, I also got a lot through watching ads and I own far from everything, but a couple of hundreds most definitely)(SP's were way too expensive too by the way, € 20)
    5JZ57S6.png
  • DragonCat159DragonCat159 Posts: 1,880 Member
    edited October 2019
    I think there are better solutions (tell in comments)
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    I do see some form of Stockholm Syndrom among players though and I just do find that.... fascinating?

    Lol are you serious? 😀 I'll just forgo the therapy and wait for the next pack.

    Just wanted to add a definition of Stockholm Syndrome for those not familiar.

    Stockholm syndrome is a condition which causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors during captivity.

    So in this case EA is the captor and simmers are the hostages. Unable to break away no matter how they're treated.
    Pretty much. While EA is a corporation rather than a single individual, you can't help but draw parallel that a specific group of simmers, which appears to be a good chunk, may have some form of the problem akin to do syndrome. De facto like verified; just observe how a simmer emotional reaction transitions over a pack before and after consumption. Hyped all the way, then disappointed after playing. And this vicious cycle repeats with every subsequent pack release.
    The bond is very bluntly close, if not same, to the victim of the abusive relationship handing 10 bucks to their abusive lover because she/he still love him/her. And you over there are being cheated behind the back and endure verbal assault.

    And that's not something to be ashamed. We all done it before and been guilty off. While I held myself from purchasing, I'll admit - they had played me over, making me believe that the game will become good overtime and most of the potholes will be filled. Oh, had I been wrong!

    EA will never change, nor Maxis with the state their leaving the heirloom. Our rants don't mean anything to them unless same protests shut their wallet closed to make the message clear and the possibility for the better change to become probable.
  • RebeccaThurstonRebeccaThurston Posts: 186 Member
    edited October 2019
    I think it is totally unnecessary
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    I do see some form of Stockholm Syndrom among players though and I just do find that.... fascinating?

    Lol are you serious? 😀 I'll just forgo the therapy and wait for the next pack.

    Just wanted to add a definition of Stockholm Syndrome for those not familiar.

    Stockholm syndrome is a condition which causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors during captivity.

    So in this case EA is the captor and simmers are the hostages. Unable to break away no matter how they're treated.
    Pretty much. While EA is a corporation rather than a single individual, you can't help but draw parallel that a specific group of simmers, which appears to be a good chunk, may have some form of the problem akin to do syndrome. De facto like verified; just observe how a simmer emotional reaction transitions over a pack before and after consumption. Hyped all the way, then disappointed after playing. And this vicious cycle repeats with every subsequent pack release.
    The bond is very bluntly close, if not same, to the victim of the abusive relationship handing 10 bucks to their abusive lover because she/he still love him/her. And you over there are being cheated behind the back and endure verbal assault.

    And that's not something to be ashamed. We all done it before and been guilty off. While I held myself from purchasing, I'll admit - they had played me over, making me believe that the game will become good overtime and most of the potholes will be filled. Oh, had I been wrong!

    EA will never change, nor Maxis with the state their leaving the heirloom. Our rants don't mean anything to them unless same protests shut their wallet closed to make the message clear and the possibility for the better change to become probable.

    I find that to be true of Star Wars "fans" before a new movie comes out. They will basically go crazy over anything to do with it and line up for hours to get tickets. Then when they finally see it they tear it apart and say how awful it was. I think it has to do with expectation and imagining what it will be like then seeing that what they had in mind wasn't what the people that actually worked on the movie or wrote the script for it had in mind. I found that in Star Wars Galaxies alot. A development team just can not measure up to our own individual imaginations. And if they can't do that, how could they possibly meet our expectations?

    As for the rest of your analogy, I am certain that works for some. But there are some people that look at a pack and know instantly if it is going to be something they will like or not. I KNEW I wouldn't like the vampire pack but I bought it because I like having all the packs. I just simply enjoyed the things I thought were cool about Vampires (which ironically didn't involve the vampires lol). The packs related to them usually have some very cool house items and wearables.

    And just to clarify further. I do not feel that I am a "hostage" to EA. If I truly did not find this game enjoyable I simply wouldn't be play it or have anything to do with it. I have a more positive outlook that people are not as weak-minded as all that. (Funnily enough I seen that with Star Wars Galaxies too. People will NOT stay with a game if they REALLY don't like it, hate the developer and the direction it's taking. They just won't. When the New Game Enhancements (NGE) hit that game the population left en masse leaving very few behind who still found something they liked about it.) I am also an example of that. I used to play this one series and thoroughly enjoyed it. When they changed formats I found very little I liked about the new features and as a result left it behind. Now if I see that title, I check to see if it's still the same format and if it is then I leave it on the shelf.)
    Post edited by RebeccaThurston on
  • RebeccaThurstonRebeccaThurston Posts: 186 Member
    edited October 2019
    I think it is totally unnecessary
    Quote from JoAnne65

    "I would love it if there would be some sort of religious 'idea' in the series, something everybody can relate to (religion is part of human life, an important part, regardless if you're religious yourself or not) without it being one specific religion.

    The problem with trying to include everyone is that you simply can't (I think we agree there?). There will always be a group that will feel left out and the more you claim to be including, the more groups that are not included will feel neglected.

    My personal concern at this moment is based on what I hear Sims 4 players, people who love the game, stating by the way. I don't play the game anymore so that's actually my only source. The first five years it was a matter of the game just not being my cup of tea, but that's personal. I know the very same thing goes for others where it comes to Sims 3. The emotion system for me is a flaw, because they based it on triggers that have nothing to do with having or causing an emotion. Taking a shower, watching a painting, passing by a waterfall. I love the emotions as such but I dislike that system. Also because on one hand the emotions are too easy to handle and on the other hand they're all over the place, constantly changing. That's my experience anyway. They indeed never promised to include an open world or CASt, but even though for me that definitely is an issue (never realized it but it turns out to be very important to me), I know it isn't for others and I think I could perfectly live with it if I'd love that emotion system, or the sims, and if there would be great and challenging strategies.

    What I don't 'trust' right now, is the recycling of features and the recolours of stuff that was already in there (the strangest thing from the perspective of a Sims 3 player as you may understand). I was very frustrated when I learned they were planning to make Sims 4 last for another 3 years at least, but that was just my personal frustration. I understood and appreciated for others that was great news (I didn't appreciate the triumphant tone at times by the way, as if people felt they deserved this for some reason). But if the second half of this edition will mean making people pay for old wine in new bottles and a lot of set dressing (not saying it is but it's what I hear from players here and since recently gamechangers even), then this hashtag is justified. EA has a monopoly position with this franchise, players have nowhere to go if they want to play a game like this. It's either this or nothing. So people play the old games, or they accept Sims 4 for what it is. Doesn't mean they all enjoy it the way they could if it was a really good game. The fact tweets from Paralives get 14K likes does say something of course. People are clearly ready for something else, for some competiton. Whether they're right about that or not is another story.

    (the Store never cost me that much by the way, I also got a lot through watching ads and I own far from everything, but a couple of hundreds most definitely)(SP's were way too expensive too by the way, € 20)

    END QUOTE


    Thank you for agreeing with me about the religion. I took a big chance even bringing it up so it's nice to know it does have some support.

    I don't really have an opinion on the Sims 4 lasting another 3 years. They last as long as they last. At some point it will end and Sims 5 will be made (even if it is a long time in the future). It's too successful a franchise in general for them not to carry on with it even if it's shelved for a time. I think they probably will include some version of the emotion system - maybe make it optional? Give us rewards that will limit our sims emotional response more so than we have now? I think things in world can cause our sims to feel certain things - being angry after a fight, seeing a beautiful sunrise can make them happy, our sim being around their love interest could make them flirty etc... But my issue with it is that it creates problems in relationships when the sim expressing that emotion is not the active household. Sometimes I try to snap them out of it - being funny works best if I can interact with them via the sim I am playing. Hopefully though in the next iteration they will work on it enough where most consider it a good addition.

    You are also right in that there is not much competition. Paralives looks interesting - will definitely try that when it is released. The only other game I can think of that would come close to the Sims is Second Life. But that lacks the same polish and features that any of the Sims titles have. Not only that but in that world, it can get boring very fast unless you can find a niche using any real life talents or skills you can put to use there. I like to write so I started working for Second Life virtual magazines but not everyone has that option. Then it just becomes a virtual chat room.

    I think the democracy thing is worth looking at and yes, we agree that the more you try to include the more people feel left out. Which is rather ironic don't you think? For as much as everyone is trying to be inclusive more and more people are feeling left out. Every one of us is part of both a majority for some things and a minority on others. It's the reaction and treatment of the people in a minority that troubles me. If a minority can accept that they are not the majority of a civilization and that most things around them are going to cater to the majority then that is better than not accepting and demanding their way. If the minority has their wants granted against the majority vote, then it isn't a democracy anymore but something else. Does that make sense? I liken it to my going to China and expecting them to give way to me because I am Canadian - it just doesn't work that way.

    Let me see if I can put it into a Sims context.

    You and I were in agreement about religion. So lets say we take a poll and 100K people that play the Sims are in agreement with us. That's a whole lot of people right? And EA should take notice and respond to that request. Right? Yet if you look up how many copies of the Sims 4 were sold it comes out to about 10 MILLION. Now in light of that number - that 100k doesn't seem so impressive now does it? So what if the rest of the players say no to religion being added? Would EA still be justified in listening to us if the majority say no? I don't think it would be. I think it means we have to accept that more people don't want it and go on with our day. But the problem is - people don't just get on with their day. They cajole and complain, protest and berate. I think it becomes a harder issue to solve the higher the percentage is. What if 6 million Sims 4 players want religion and the devs don't listen? Then there is a problem with EA.

    The challenging question is knowing what percentage of players are unhappy with EA. And only EA knows the answer to that.
    Post edited by RebeccaThurston on
  • nightowl1nightowl1 Posts: 89 Member
    I agree and support the idea
    Most games go forwards with their sequels while EA takes two steps backwards, we haven't progressed and it is more than evident. Just because a person has a preference over a game, whether that's for the mods or how clean the graphics look, there is still a big downgrade from gameplay. You may still enjoy it, but that doesn't stop the fact that the Sims 4 is an entire downgrade and would've been better recieved as a spin-off from the series. It's own game, if you will. But nope, as part of the series it should've improved.

    We have gone from having babies in cribs (Sims 1) to babies freed and then placed back into cribs once the Sims 4 came along. That is just a simple way to put it, and I don't like to have my emotions get in the way. It's just logic. You see what is happening and choose to ignore it to benefit your own emotions. I don't feel there is anything that is going to be lost by accepting how pathetic this is, for EA to cut down on content, to include missing content in other packs, to cut down on sims personality and leave them bland and boring.

    Accepting this would not bring anything bad to you, in fact it would help show EA how much we care about this game, that they cannot keep playing these games. Any other game company who played this game would've already recieved massive criticism from the fanbase, but for some reason we are the special ones over here, who quietly accept what is going on as the guilt we feel for having feedback over something we spent hundreds of pounds on going to waste.

    If it was a free game and EA personally released this for free, then we wouldn't be right to criticise. It would have been something to appreciate, to be grateful for, and those who would've criticised would be entitled since they did it for us personally. Like a heart-warming gift or just something to make our lives that much brighter. But it wasn't, this is a multi-million games company who are known to turn good things bad. Fifa, Sim City... we've seen it. Once Skylines came out you saw those people flock over. You tell me, in all honesty that if someone produced a version of the Sims with the things we are lacking in this version, with updated graphics, that could run happily on your computer without lag, that you wouldn't take it.

    Because I am sure, most would. It would make us all happy. Now, I hear this arguement a lot. "EA can't make you all happy! That's too much of a demand" - yes, I agree. If things weren't left out and we continued to nit-pick at what wasn't released as a game pack, if we started to spew out our own ideas and feel upset for not having control over the Sims developers, then yes it would be right to say "you can't make everyone happy, so just accept what you've got".

    But the difference is, we are asking for what they cut out of the game. Things that should've been achieveable. No, not open world as I know that's too much to ask and would require an entire rewrite of the codes and everything - it is not managable as this game would've originally been released as another version of 'Sims Social'. So I understand this, but for simple things like adding more traits, trying to make the sims behave more unique from each other, even at least attempting it. Freeing the babies from those cribs. Adding more things for children within new GP/EPs. Just basic things, more basic than open-world. They've still got time. They've still got money, we keep paying them. So instead of sitting around and being grateful, we should be allowed to be critical. Even for those who love the game, you can't pretend these things aren't real.

    If you brought a faulty product, would you keep your mouth closed because the manufacturer worked so hard on creating that product for you? Whoever left negative feedback on that product, would you tell them that they can't please everyone and should at least keep quiet so those who loved the product and found no faults could continue to enjoy that product without feeling "threatened"?

    Okay, this is a lot of rambling. I'm suprised I came out with this much, but this is why I agree with the movement and think it is a splendid idea.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,951 Member
    edited October 2019
    Thank you for agreeing with me about the religion. I took a big chance even bringing it up so it's nice to know it does have some support.

    I don't really have an opinion on the Sims 4 lasting another 3 years. They last as long as they last. At some point it will end and Sims 5 will be made (even if it is a long time in the future). It's too successful a franchise in general for them not to carry on with it even if it's shelved for a time. I think they probably will include some version of the emotion system - maybe make it optional? Give us rewards that will limit our sims emotional response more so than we have now? I think things in world can cause our sims to feel certain things - being angry after a fight, seeing a beautiful sunrise can make them happy, our sim being around their love interest could make them flirty etc... But my issue with it is that it creates problems in relationships when the sim expressing that emotion is not the active household. Sometimes I try to snap them out of it - being funny works best if I can interact with them via the sim I am playing. Hopefully though in the next iteration they will work on it enough where most consider it a good addition.

    You are also right in that there is not much competition. Paralives looks interesting - will definitely try that when it is released. The only other game I can think of that would come close to the Sims is Second Life. But that lacks the same polish and features that any of the Sims titles have. Not only that but in that world, it can get boring very fast unless you can find a niche using any real life talents or skills you can put to use there. I like to write so I started working for Second Life virtual magazines but not everyone has that option. Then it just becomes a virtual chat room.

    I think the democracy thing is worth looking at and yes, we agree that the more you try to include the more people feel left out. Which is rather ironic don't you think? For as much as everyone is trying to be inclusive more and more people are feeling left out. Every one of us is part of both a majority for some things and a minority on others. It's the reaction and treatment of the people in a minority that troubles me. If a minority can accept that they are not the majority of a civilization and that most things around them are going to cater to the majority then that is better than not accepting and demanding their way. If the minority has their wants granted against the majority vote, then it isn't a democracy anymore but something else. Does that make sense? I liken it to my going to China and expecting them to give way to me because I am Canadian - it just doesn't work that way.

    Let me see if I can put it into a Sims context.

    You and I were in agreement about religion. So lets say we take a poll and 100K people that play the Sims are in agreement with us. That's a whole lot of people right? And EA should take notice and respond to that request. Right? Yet if you look up how many copies of the Sims 4 were sold it comes out to about 10 MILLION. Now in light of that number - that 100k doesn't seem so impressive now does it? So what if the rest of the players say no to religion being added? Would EA still be justified in listening to us if the majority say no? I don't think it would be. I think it means we have to accept that more people don't want it and go on with our day. But the problem is - people don't just get on with their day. They cajole and complain, protest and berate. I think it becomes a harder issue to solve the higher the percentage is. What if 6 million Sims 4 players want religion and the devs don't listen? Then there is a problem with EA.

    The challenging question is knowing what percentage of players are unhappy with EA. And only EA knows the answer to that.
    Here’s what I think about letting people vote about something they don’t know (yet) ;)

    CV6WxzaWsAMscBf.jpg

    There’s a video made in 1999, where people just passing by are asked what they think of mobile phones (I could post it but it’s in Dutch so that’s useless, I’ll leave a link for those interested and Dutch). The question asked: “Do you have a mobile phone?” The answers: “No.”
    “Why not?”
    The answers:
    “Nah, I don’t need one. Nobody calls me anyway.”
    “Well, I don’t see the point.”
    “So then you’re cycling and somebody calls you (hahaha)!”

    “Do you think it’s important to always be reachable?”
    The answers:
    “I’m not that important (hahaha).”
    “I have an normal phone. Why would I need a mobile one?”
    “That would be practical. But when I get stranded, there will always be a phone booth around or a farm with a farmer and a phone.”
    “I have an answering machine so at home I’m always reachable already. But when I’m on my way, when I’m on a train or in my car or calling someone myself, I don’t need that.”
    “I don’t think that’s nice at all, to be always reachable.”
    “I’m a student and I have an answering machine and that’s just fine.”
    “We’ve always done it this way and I think that’s just fine.”
    “If people want to reach out to me they can write me a letter and if it’s urgent they can reach me at home by phone.”

    I’m curious how many of those people interviewed don’t have a mobile phone now ;)

    EA may know how many packs they are selling, they don’t know how satisfied people are. And, more importantly, they don’t care. Because they’ll only care about that first part: how much did we sell. So actually it’s hashtags like this people depend upon to reach out and tell them they are not happy and why they are not happy.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 19,595 Member
    I like #EAlisten more than #stopEAabuse
    I wouldn't mind made up religions like the Sims Medieval. Like I said made up religions do really well. I've used DrGluon's streams of an example of that and people love it.

    @RebeccaThurston You perfectly described fans with your Star Wars example. Not all fans are going to be happy after a release of something. Why people are trying to polarize what fans are so much, I'll never understand.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,907 Member
    edited October 2019
    I think it is totally unnecessary
    Scobre wrote: »

    Oh I agree, I was referring to little kids.Teens can have third freedom.
    I think that is why people question if Sims 4 target market are teens or children? Children need to be told how to handle their money because they can't earn it themselves or understand the concept of money management. Sims 4 is supposed to be rated teen and honestly with all the plum drama this year I don't think having the game target little kids is a good choice. Money isn't a problem with me either and I handle all my finances myself with bookkeeping and taxes. I think there are many reasons for people to support the EA listen hashtag beyond just the Sims franchise. Loot boxes towards kids with some of the other games are a huge cause for concern. I just know when I have kids and they want DLC or loot boxes they are going to work for them like I did. I appreciate that my sister is teaching that with my nephew now after the MLP incident. He works hard for his games and going to prepare him for when he is old enough to play Sims this year. I got him the Sims 4 when it was free this year.

    No matter who the game is targeted for - at least here in the USA you have to be 18 and older to buy the game etc at Origin. It is not that waY in all countries I know and EA has to follow the laws of the countries - I heard the UK lets younger people buy - even though I am not sure about that it is still up to the countries what is allowed and what isn't. In the USA though buying takes an 18 year old or older. 18 in the USA is not a child. They are considered an adult except for I believe tobacco and alcohol - those two I believe you have to be 21. (I am not sure as i do not smoke or drink alcohol)

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,433 Member
    I agree and support the idea
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »

    Oh I agree, I was referring to little kids.Teens can have third freedom.
    I think that is why people question if Sims 4 target market are teens or children? Children need to be told how to handle their money because they can't earn it themselves or understand the concept of money management. Sims 4 is supposed to be rated teen and honestly with all the plum drama this year I don't think having the game target little kids is a good choice. Money isn't a problem with me either and I handle all my finances myself with bookkeeping and taxes. I think there are many reasons for people to support the EA listen hashtag beyond just the Sims franchise. Loot boxes towards kids with some of the other games are a huge cause for concern. I just know when I have kids and they want DLC or loot boxes they are going to work for them like I did. I appreciate that my sister is teaching that with my nephew now after the MLP incident. He works hard for his games and going to prepare him for when he is old enough to play Sims this year. I got him the Sims 4 when it was free this year.

    No matter who the game is targeted for - at least here in the USA you have to be 18 and older to buy the game etc at Origin. It is not that waY in all countries I know and EA has to follow the laws of the countries - I heard the UK lets younger people buy - even though I am not sure about that it is still up to the countries what is allowed and what isn't. In the USA though buying takes an 18 year old or older. 18 in the USA is not a child. They are considered an adult except for I believe tobacco and alcohol - those two I believe you have to be 21. (I am not sure as i do not smoke or drink alcohol)

    I was curious about this, so I looked into it. It's 13.

    As far as their legal descriptions go, it seems if you are old enough to register and maintain an EA account, you are old enough to make purchases using it, as well.

    Australia, Canada, India, Singapore, South Africa, and the USA all share the 13 age minimum requirement.
  • SimmyFroggySimmyFroggy Posts: 1,759 Member
    I like #EAlisten more than #stopEAabuse
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »

    Oh I agree, I was referring to little kids.Teens can have third freedom.
    I think that is why people question if Sims 4 target market are teens or children? Children need to be told how to handle their money because they can't earn it themselves or understand the concept of money management. Sims 4 is supposed to be rated teen and honestly with all the plum drama this year I don't think having the game target little kids is a good choice. Money isn't a problem with me either and I handle all my finances myself with bookkeeping and taxes. I think there are many reasons for people to support the EA listen hashtag beyond just the Sims franchise. Loot boxes towards kids with some of the other games are a huge cause for concern. I just know when I have kids and they want DLC or loot boxes they are going to work for them like I did. I appreciate that my sister is teaching that with my nephew now after the MLP incident. He works hard for his games and going to prepare him for when he is old enough to play Sims this year. I got him the Sims 4 when it was free this year.

    No matter who the game is targeted for - at least here in the USA you have to be 18 and older to buy the game etc at Origin. It is not that waY in all countries I know and EA has to follow the laws of the countries - I heard the UK lets younger people buy - even though I am not sure about that it is still up to the countries what is allowed and what isn't. In the USA though buying takes an 18 year old or older. 18 in the USA is not a child. They are considered an adult except for I believe tobacco and alcohol - those two I believe you have to be 21. (I am not sure as i do not smoke or drink alcohol)

    I was curious about this, so I looked into it. It's 13.

    As far as their legal descriptions go, it seems if you are old enough to register and maintain an EA account, you are old enough to make purchases using it, as well.

    Australia, Canada, India, Singapore, South Africa, and the USA all share the 13 age minimum requirement.

    Not quite true. Children under the required age (which does vary in Europe because of GDPR) can create an EA account but aren't able to make purchases or access any other online features. And creating an account (even adult, I believe) doesn't require registering a credit card or PayPal or anything like that. I think in some countries (not everywhere though).
    "child accounts are also unable to have Origin Access memberships or use EA Cash Cards."

    Teen accounts have the option of registering a payment method for purchases/Access/etc, but the age must be verified (and the teen must have access to said payment method, which in most cases is a parent's since under-18s usually aren't legally allowed to have bank cards with online payment functions or Paypal).
    avatar art: Loves2draw1812
  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,433 Member
    I agree and support the idea
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »

    Oh I agree, I was referring to little kids.Teens can have third freedom.
    I think that is why people question if Sims 4 target market are teens or children? Children need to be told how to handle their money because they can't earn it themselves or understand the concept of money management. Sims 4 is supposed to be rated teen and honestly with all the plum drama this year I don't think having the game target little kids is a good choice. Money isn't a problem with me either and I handle all my finances myself with bookkeeping and taxes. I think there are many reasons for people to support the EA listen hashtag beyond just the Sims franchise. Loot boxes towards kids with some of the other games are a huge cause for concern. I just know when I have kids and they want DLC or loot boxes they are going to work for them like I did. I appreciate that my sister is teaching that with my nephew now after the MLP incident. He works hard for his games and going to prepare him for when he is old enough to play Sims this year. I got him the Sims 4 when it was free this year.

    No matter who the game is targeted for - at least here in the USA you have to be 18 and older to buy the game etc at Origin. It is not that waY in all countries I know and EA has to follow the laws of the countries - I heard the UK lets younger people buy - even though I am not sure about that it is still up to the countries what is allowed and what isn't. In the USA though buying takes an 18 year old or older. 18 in the USA is not a child. They are considered an adult except for I believe tobacco and alcohol - those two I believe you have to be 21. (I am not sure as i do not smoke or drink alcohol)

    I was curious about this, so I looked into it. It's 13.

    As far as their legal descriptions go, it seems if you are old enough to register and maintain an EA account, you are old enough to make purchases using it, as well.

    Australia, Canada, India, Singapore, South Africa, and the USA all share the 13 age minimum requirement.

    Not quite true. Children under the required age (which does vary in Europe because of GDPR) can create an EA account but aren't able to make purchases or access any other online features. And creating an account (even adult, I believe) doesn't require registering a credit card or PayPal or anything like that. I think in some countries (not everywhere though).
    "child accounts are also unable to have Origin Access memberships or use EA Cash Cards."

    Teen accounts have the option of registering a payment method for purchases/Access/etc, but the age must be verified (and the teen must have access to said payment method, which in most cases is a parent's since under-18s usually aren't legally allowed to have bank cards with online payment functions or Paypal).

    I'm referring to the USA.
  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,907 Member
    edited October 2019
    I think it is totally unnecessary
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »

    Oh I agree, I was referring to little kids.Teens can have third freedom.
    I think that is why people question if Sims 4 target market are teens or children? Children need to be told how to handle their money because they can't earn it themselves or understand the concept of money management. Sims 4 is supposed to be rated teen and honestly with all the plum drama this year I don't think having the game target little kids is a good choice. Money isn't a problem with me either and I handle all my finances myself with bookkeeping and taxes. I think there are many reasons for people to support the EA listen hashtag beyond just the Sims franchise. Loot boxes towards kids with some of the other games are a huge cause for concern. I just know when I have kids and they want DLC or loot boxes they are going to work for them like I did. I appreciate that my sister is teaching that with my nephew now after the MLP incident. He works hard for his games and going to prepare him for when he is old enough to play Sims this year. I got him the Sims 4 when it was free this year.

    No matter who the game is targeted for - at least here in the USA you have to be 18 and older to buy the game etc at Origin. It is not that waY in all countries I know and EA has to follow the laws of the countries - I heard the UK lets younger people buy - even though I am not sure about that it is still up to the countries what is allowed and what isn't. In the USA though buying takes an 18 year old or older. 18 in the USA is not a child. They are considered an adult except for I believe tobacco and alcohol - those two I believe you have to be 21. (I am not sure as i do not smoke or drink alcohol)

    I was curious about this, so I looked into it. It's 13.

    As far as their legal descriptions go, it seems if you are old enough to register and maintain an EA account, you are old enough to make purchases using it, as well.

    Australia, Canada, India, Singapore, South Africa, and the USA all share the 13 age minimum requirement.

    Not quite true. Children under the required age (which does vary in Europe because of GDPR) can create an EA account but aren't able to make purchases or access any other online features. And creating an account (even adult, I believe) doesn't require registering a credit card or PayPal or anything like that. I think in some countries (not everywhere though).
    "child accounts are also unable to have Origin Access memberships or use EA Cash Cards."

    Teen accounts have the option of registering a payment method for purchases/Access/etc, but the age must be verified (and the teen must have access to said payment method, which in most cases is a parent's since under-18s usually aren't legally allowed to have bank cards with online payment functions or Paypal).

    I'm referring to the USA.

    It says right on Origin 18 and older to purchase or must use a parental account. My step granddaughter can only buy things through her moms account using her moms credit card or my sons. My son or his wife do all her buying for her - as it is not legal for her to have a credit card. All she can have is an account to play the game at 13 - which she has had since she was 13 - she cannot purchase anything. She will be 16 in November.

    In the USA kids are not held responsible for anything they buy if they are under 18 - it is the law.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • ScobreScobre Posts: 19,595 Member
    edited October 2019
    I like #EAlisten more than #stopEAabuse
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »

    Oh I agree, I was referring to little kids.Teens can have third freedom.
    I think that is why people question if Sims 4 target market are teens or children? Children need to be told how to handle their money because they can't earn it themselves or understand the concept of money management. Sims 4 is supposed to be rated teen and honestly with all the plum drama this year I don't think having the game target little kids is a good choice. Money isn't a problem with me either and I handle all my finances myself with bookkeeping and taxes. I think there are many reasons for people to support the EA listen hashtag beyond just the Sims franchise. Loot boxes towards kids with some of the other games are a huge cause for concern. I just know when I have kids and they want DLC or loot boxes they are going to work for them like I did. I appreciate that my sister is teaching that with my nephew now after the MLP incident. He works hard for his games and going to prepare him for when he is old enough to play Sims this year. I got him the Sims 4 when it was free this year.

    No matter who the game is targeted for - at least here in the USA you have to be 18 and older to buy the game etc at Origin. It is not that waY in all countries I know and EA has to follow the laws of the countries - I heard the UK lets younger people buy - even though I am not sure about that it is still up to the countries what is allowed and what isn't. In the USA though buying takes an 18 year old or older. 18 in the USA is not a child. They are considered an adult except for I believe tobacco and alcohol - those two I believe you have to be 21. (I am not sure as i do not smoke or drink alcohol)
    Oh as far as Origin yes, but I was referring to the game rating. True with their rated E games too. Thing is Sims 4 is supposed to be rated Teen and with how safe they are developing it, falls under the E for everyone for nearly all games. At least in the USA, what has been allowed in gaming has gotten a bit less strict over the years. I guess Indie games are just more daring than just playing it safe for the millennials with their "triggers" and "need for a safe space". Sims is the only franchise that is play it super safe with their games when even common things like pronouns and cultural items are considered "controversial" when they are discussed. I have no problem discussing things like that with you because I know you are mature enough to handle it, but just gets tiring coming up with new ideas with Simmers whenever any new idea is discussed it is a trigger and although they want the Sims 4 to be a new game, nothing really new is discussed and with the development over the past years it has remained selling the same content over and over again not even revamping new themes to something new. I was really hoping with the new head of Maxis there would be, but I have yet to see the best of old and new come together for something different and unique.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
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