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Do you still have hope?

Comments

  • SiladriaSiladria Posts: 33 Member
    Why do so many people see inclusivity as an agenda? Doesn't everyone have the right to see themselves represented in the media they consume? Why does this bother you guys so much? Like, to me that's not what makes the game's developers 'out of touch'.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 19,444 Member
    No it’s to late
    Scobre wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    Five more years of Sims 4........what more is there to do after university is released honestly that hasn't been done already?

    Judging by the Ideas section, I'm pretty sure "a lot" is the answer to your question. Not just packs, but also base game changes.
    I don't know I've waited 5 years for any of those ideas to be implemented and have yet to see it. Only one that did were toddlers. Last time I checked Gurus don't even read forums so sadly those ideas are useless if no one reads them.

    Occult players waited for magic 5 years and it just happened. University fans are about to get that part for the game. Tropical world was on plenty of people's wish lists.

    Whether the gurus do or don't read the forums (I used the Ideas section as an example of just that: ideas for thing that could be added to the game) they do seem to be aware of at least the farming pack and/or horses as a wish, plus definitely werewolves since people posting ideas on here also mention them on twitter and elsewhere, so the answer to your question stands: there's still a lot to do after University. And that's just based on players' ideas, the team likely has their own too.
    Wait what? Are we even playing the same game? Occult was done with base game ghost patch, Get to Work, Vampires, Island Living, and Realms of Magic. But yeah compared to previous iterations the number of occults five years later is still scaled back a lot. I don't know, I've heard plenty of fans call Island Living the worst pack ever and they still are not happy even with Outdoor Retreat and Jungle Adventures, they are still asking for vacation spots because apparently the ones given are still not appeasing their needs. I hope the farming thing gets done. It actually would be one of the few new idea DLC packs to enter the franchise. University I was disappointed being repeated again and was hoping it would extend beyond just YAs with education especially since modders knocked both university and grade and high school out of the park with their mods. I asked one of the game changers which occult would work with university and they said werewolves would because of shows like teen wolf. Would be nice to get horses and llamas with farming, but whenever something transportation is mentioned it is always the confinement of the Sims 4 neighborhood design as the excuse why features like horses or cars can't be done in the game. I don't see ideas posted on Twitter or shared with Gurus. All I see are Simmers fighting with each other as they do here. Would be nice if Simmers actually talking about the game and ideas for it once, but five years later I just don't see that happening. All they care about is dressing up their perfect barbie dolls rather than game play or game tools and constantly asking the game to be harder by asking repeats of the same things of positive only achievements, goals, careers, etc. The game lacks drama and I don't see the game going on five more years because the only drama the Sims 4 is going to get is in the Sims community rather than the game itself. It is like can Simmers really handle five more years of bickering back and forth or the same content and with occults being constantly nerfed because Simmers find them too negative?

    Even game changers are getting frustrated how the game hasn't changed much or old five year old bugs haven't been fixed yet. I just don't see things changing and had plenty of Simmers tell me how much things will change in five years, five years ago. So it is like ok I'm being told that again, why? Can you promise that things will change? No Simmer can. So why carry on all these false promises further. Sims 4 was falsely advertised in so many aspects during launch and five years later those claims of what the game being and what it actually is are just still not there. I don't think the game will ever deliver what it promised for the base game and time has proven that. The schism of the Sims community is too strong to sustain five more years of development. Any normal company would move onto a new product that split their customer base in two and a 10 year old product especially in the gaming industry is going to age really badly especially since Sims 3 graphics and game engine are still considered more modern than the Sims 4 one. Out with the old and in with the new. Sims 4 is old now. Time to bring in the new gaming engine technology and fashion and music. I'm not getting any younger either, younger Simmers may have time to spare on a dated Sims 4 game, but I don't. Time is valuable to me and I would like to see the franchise grow beyond just the Sims 4. I'm hoping I'll still be alive by the time the Sims 10 comes out. But oh well, I'm sure by the time Sims 5 comes out, competition will come in with new gaming engines and graphics easily. So might be a good thing for Sims 4 to extend development, to make the barrier of entry of competition easier to come through just for the simple fact that "people like new graphics". I hope Paralives is one of those. But it amazing what one developer has done with Stardew Valley since 2016 compared to what little Sims 4 has done since 2014. Shows how much indie developers are going to save the gaming industry. They are just doing amazing emotional things with GRIS and Celeste and winning awards for their efforts. Their sales are killing it too: "As of March 2019, Gris has sold 300,000 copies worldwide." "By the end of 2018, over 500,000 copies of the game had been sold." So yes games with real human emotions do sell well rather than whatever robotic emotions the Sims have that were supposed to be the best emotion system in the franchise yet and the smartest Sims yet and best multitasking yet. I have yet to see that. XD
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,394 Member
    edited October 2019
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    The total lack of attention to detail and laziness of the team when it come to animations shows me TS4 will never change.
    I don't even wish for a TS5 anymore.
    I kinda just settled on using mods to make my game playable.
    Another reason why I'm pumped for new competition in life simulation games.. Paralives, Planet zoo, New Life
    The Sims is too watered down now :'(

    Talk about lazy development and you mention those games. LOL. As lazy as they get. Just look at Paralives. Wouldn't want it if it was free. To each their own though. One animation do numerous different things - how is that going to work right? Each item needs it's own animation separate from the rest or it's looking for problems.
    And why is Planet Zoo lazy development? (don’t know New Life but my son’s been playing Planet Zoo beta and it didn't look lazy to me)

    I don't think any of those games are lazy development, honestly. Indie developers have it far more tougher than established game studios, and often their projects end up better because of the amount of passion they have for their craft and control to make what they want a reality.

    It's far easier to call EA "lazy" (although I think it's more appropriate to use the word mismanaged instead) because they have more resources to do better than anyone else, yet choose to impress shareholders over releasing a good game. Really, both can be done, but when you have people leading a company with zero interest in the product, the former is going to happen. I think things are starting to really crack though, judging by the whole Blizzard and Hong Kong controversy that has been going on.
  • SimmyFroggySimmyFroggy Posts: 1,759 Member
    Yes i feel like this will be fixed
    @Scobre idk what exactly in "there's still content they can add to the game after University, there's a ton of ideas on here and elsewhere on social media" gave you the prompt for that rant.
    I said nothing about HOW things were implemented (and honestly, the fact that there's so little occult stuff in the game just tells me that there's room for more). I only spoke about magic, not about occults in general too so I'm not even saying there's too little or too much, that's a whole another conversation. I'm also not talking about how much the game can change.

    Bottom line: you hate TS4, I don't. Each to their own. Just as I think there are still a lot of themes to be added after University, which is why I answered your question: what more can be done in the game? Tons. Things brought back from previous versions, brand new things that were not in the games before. That's it, simple answer to a simple question in one specific post.

    avatar art: Loves2draw1812
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,950 Member
    No it’s to late
    Siladria wrote: »
    Why do so many people see inclusivity as an agenda? Doesn't everyone have the right to see themselves represented in the media they consume? Why does this bother you guys so much? Like, to me that's not what makes the game's developers 'out of touch'.
    Straw man alert. Just because people see an agenda doesn’t mean they don’t grant others to be represented in the media (or a game).
    5JZ57S6.png
  • Evil_OneEvil_One Posts: 4,422 Member
    No it’s to late
    Siladria wrote: »
    Why do so many people see inclusivity as an agenda? Doesn't everyone have the right to see themselves represented in the media they consume? Why does this bother you guys so much? Like, to me that's not what makes the game's developers 'out of touch'.

    Because it's always used as one or all of the following:

    1 - An excuse not to do something IE allowing male sims to wear female sims clothing, was it inclusive?, or simply to stop people complaining that male sims don't have enough clothing.

    2 - An ideological shield for a shoddy product, take the latest Batwoman series for example, anyone protesting against it is automatically assumed to be doing so because of the lesbian status of the lead and not because the series stinks, same with other things that didn't go over so well, The Last Jedi (haters must have been misogynists), Captain Marvel (same again), ETC... I guarantee if Black Panther had been really badly written and a lousy film, causing it to fail, it would've been blamed on racists and not writers.

    3 - Shoehorned in, decimating established lore and/or story, or otherwise just being a tokenist addition, TLJ, Star Trek Discovery, Marvel, DC, ETC all do this. If I am playing an online first person shooter, my character has no needed story or campaign, no worthwhile background nor identity other than their physical appearance, dress and voice... Do I really need to know who they'd sleep with or what they was born as?
    raw
  • FelicityFelicity Posts: 4,665 Member
    I don’t know i hope so
    Scobre wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    Five more years of Sims 4........what more is there to do after university is released honestly that hasn't been done already?

    Judging by the Ideas section, I'm pretty sure "a lot" is the answer to your question. Not just packs, but also base game changes.
    I don't know I've waited 5 years for any of those ideas to be implemented and have yet to see it. Only one that did were toddlers. Last time I checked Gurus don't even read forums so sadly those ideas are useless if no one reads them.

    Occult players waited for magic 5 years and it just happened. University fans are about to get that part for the game. Tropical world was on plenty of people's wish lists.

    Whether the gurus do or don't read the forums (I used the Ideas section as an example of just that: ideas for thing that could be added to the game) they do seem to be aware of at least the farming pack and/or horses as a wish, plus definitely werewolves since people posting ideas on here also mention them on twitter and elsewhere, so the answer to your question stands: there's still a lot to do after University. And that's just based on players' ideas, the team likely has their own too.
    Wait what? Are we even playing the same game? Occult was done with base game ghost patch, Get to Work, Vampires, Island Living, and Realms of Magic. But yeah compared to previous iterations the number of occults five years later is still scaled back a lot. I don't know, I've heard plenty of fans call Island Living the worst pack ever and they still are not happy even with Outdoor Retreat and Jungle Adventures, they are still asking for vacation spots because apparently the ones given are still not appeasing their needs. I hope the farming thing gets done. It actually would be one of the few new idea DLC packs to enter the franchise. University I was disappointed being repeated again and was hoping it would extend beyond just YAs with education especially since modders knocked both university and grade and high school out of the park with their mods. I asked one of the game changers which occult would work with university and they said werewolves would because of shows like teen wolf. Would be nice to get horses and llamas with farming, but whenever something transportation is mentioned it is always the confinement of the Sims 4 neighborhood design as the excuse why features like horses or cars can't be done in the game. I don't see ideas posted on Twitter or shared with Gurus. All I see are Simmers fighting with each other as they do here. Would be nice if Simmers actually talking about the game and ideas for it once, but five years later I just don't see that happening. All they care about is dressing up their perfect barbie dolls rather than game play or game tools and constantly asking the game to be harder by asking repeats of the same things of positive only achievements, goals, careers, etc. The game lacks drama and I don't see the game going on five more years because the only drama the Sims 4 is going to get is in the Sims community rather than the game itself. It is like can Simmers really handle five more years of bickering back and forth or the same content and with occults being constantly nerfed because Simmers find them too negative?

    Even game changers are getting frustrated how the game hasn't changed much or old five year old bugs haven't been fixed yet. I just don't see things changing and had plenty of Simmers tell me how much things will change in five years, five years ago. So it is like ok I'm being told that again, why? Can you promise that things will change? No Simmer can. So why carry on all these false promises further. Sims 4 was falsely advertised in so many aspects during launch and five years later those claims of what the game being and what it actually is are just still not there. I don't think the game will ever deliver what it promised for the base game and time has proven that. The schism of the Sims community is too strong to sustain five more years of development. Any normal company would move onto a new product that split their customer base in two and a 10 year old product especially in the gaming industry is going to age really badly especially since Sims 3 graphics and game engine are still considered more modern than the Sims 4 one. Out with the old and in with the new. Sims 4 is old now. Time to bring in the new gaming engine technology and fashion and music. I'm not getting any younger either, younger Simmers may have time to spare on a dated Sims 4 game, but I don't. Time is valuable to me and I would like to see the franchise grow beyond just the Sims 4. I'm hoping I'll still be alive by the time the Sims 10 comes out. But oh well, I'm sure by the time Sims 5 comes out, competition will come in with new gaming engines and graphics easily. So might be a good thing for Sims 4 to extend development, to make the barrier of entry of competition easier to come through just for the simple fact that "people like new graphics". I hope Paralives is one of those. But it amazing what one developer has done with Stardew Valley since 2016 compared to what little Sims 4 has done since 2014. Shows how much indie developers are going to save the gaming industry. They are just doing amazing emotional things with GRIS and Celeste and winning awards for their efforts. Their sales are killing it too: "As of March 2019, Gris has sold 300,000 copies worldwide." "By the end of 2018, over 500,000 copies of the game had been sold." So yes games with real human emotions do sell well rather than whatever robotic emotions the Sims have that were supposed to be the best emotion system in the franchise yet and the smartest Sims yet and best multitasking yet. I have yet to see that. XD

    Sims 4 has gotten a lot better since launch. The sims are still very shallow, imo, but who can forget the saga of Mr Sausage?

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/817854/an-obnoxious-psychosausage-tests-the-boundaries-of-the-sims-4-emotions/p1
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 19,444 Member
    No it’s to late
    @Scobre idk what exactly in "there's still content they can add to the game after University, there's a ton of ideas on here and elsewhere on social media" gave you the prompt for that rant.
    I said nothing about HOW things were implemented (and honestly, the fact that there's so little occult stuff in the game just tells me that there's room for more). I only spoke about magic, not about occults in general too so I'm not even saying there's too little or too much, that's a whole another conversation. I'm also not talking about how much the game can change.

    Bottom line: you hate TS4, I don't. Each to their own. Just as I think there are still a lot of themes to be added after University, which is why I answered your question: what more can be done in the game? Tons. Things brought back from previous versions, brand new things that were not in the games before. That's it, simple answer to a simple question in one specific post.
    I don't hate it which is the main assumption, if someone wants the game to change in anyway or deliver what it initially promised is always said. That makes sense about the magic five years later though. But honestly if people love the game as much as they claim and still think more development is worth it, prove it then. Because honestly in the past five years they haven't. Ok you say you don't hate the game, then prove it, just don't tell me. Share those ideas with the Gurus, share those bugs, share that you want the game to be more inclusive worldwide, because if Simmers don't, then it proves to me that they don't love the game as much as they claim they do. I really would like to be proven wrong within the next year or so otherwise I don't see why "there is enough content to keep the Sims 4 going for the next five years" as worthwhile. People can assume as negativity they want to about other people including me, but all that proves is how much the Sims 4 lacks that negativity is if Simmers have to goat other Simmers to get drama in their lives with false labels. Life is full of positive and negative and everything in between. I'm a Simmer, been called lover and hater before but in the end I'm a Sims deviant and outlier and fall in the in between. The Sims is about the community, not about "to each their own". Where is that love, where is that passion for the series to grow? I guess that is the biggest default about the Sims 4 is even five years later it is still considered "to each their own" type of game. So much for it being about the Sims plural, instead it is about the single Sim that doesn't even live up to the simulation title. Sad even five years later it is still called a toy or a RPG doll rather than a game these days by people who claim to love it.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 19,444 Member
    No it’s to late
    Felicity wrote: »

    Sims 4 has gotten a lot better since launch. The sims are still very shallow, imo, but who can forget the saga of Mr Sausage?

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/817854/an-obnoxious-psychosausage-tests-the-boundaries-of-the-sims-4-emotions/p1
    I really miss those stories. They brought me joy a lot.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • SimmyFroggySimmyFroggy Posts: 1,759 Member
    Yes i feel like this will be fixed
    Scobre wrote: »
    @Scobre idk what exactly in "there's still content they can add to the game after University, there's a ton of ideas on here and elsewhere on social media" gave you the prompt for that rant.
    I said nothing about HOW things were implemented (and honestly, the fact that there's so little occult stuff in the game just tells me that there's room for more). I only spoke about magic, not about occults in general too so I'm not even saying there's too little or too much, that's a whole another conversation. I'm also not talking about how much the game can change.

    Bottom line: you hate TS4, I don't. Each to their own. Just as I think there are still a lot of themes to be added after University, which is why I answered your question: what more can be done in the game? Tons. Things brought back from previous versions, brand new things that were not in the games before. That's it, simple answer to a simple question in one specific post.
    I don't hate it which is the main assumption, if someone wants the game to change in anyway or deliver what it initially promised is always said. That makes sense about the magic five years later though. But honestly if people love the game as much as they claim and still think more development is worth it, prove it then. Because honestly in the past five years they haven't. Ok you say you don't hate the game, then prove it, just don't tell me. Share those ideas with the Gurus, share those bugs, share that you want the game to be more inclusive worldwide, because if Simmers don't, then it proves to me that they don't love the game as much as they claim they do. I really would like to be proven wrong within the next year or so otherwise I don't see why "there is enough content to keep the Sims 4 going for the next five years" as worthwhile. People can assume as negativity they want to about other people including me, but all that proves is how much the Sims 4 lacks that negativity is if Simmers have to goat other Simmers to get drama in their lives with false labels. Life is full of positive and negative and everything in between. I'm a Simmer, been called lover and hater before but in the end I'm a Sims deviant and outlier and fall in the in between. The Sims is about the community, not about "to each their own". Where is that love, where is that passion for the series to grow? I guess that is the biggest default about the Sims 4 is even five years later it is still considered "to each their own" type of game. So much for it being about the Sims plural, instead it is about the single Sim that doesn't even live up to the simulation title. Sad even five years later it is still called a toy or a RPG doll rather than a game these days by people who claim to love it.

    Prove I don't hate the game? How? What would prove that besides that I am playing, I'm very much enjoying building AND gameplay, have spent hours upon hours in the game (and lost track of time so many times because I got lost in it.
    Prove that more development is worth it? Again, how, besides that there are many people who still love it, many people who have ideas for what can be added to the game from base game additions and expanding of existing features to packs not seen before.
    If you look around the forums and elsewhere (though yeah, I agree, it's hard to see the good through the walls of "this isn't the game I want so it sucks" sometimes) you'll see plenty of Simmers sharing their wishes for the game, asking the gurus about bugs (and yes, getting them fixed), helping make TS4 better. Instead of "why bother adding anything else?"

    re: the bolded part: precisely where you're saying it's not worthwhile. Why wouldn't it be, if people still love the game and want to see more added to it, want to see it continue? Passion isn't only "I want the next thing".

    For what it's worth, I've never once called TS4 any of those things. It IS a sandbox game though, it's a "create your own story" game. By design. And I don't know why that's seen as such a horrible thing.
    avatar art: Loves2draw1812
  • Evil_OneEvil_One Posts: 4,422 Member
    edited October 2019
    No it’s to late
    Felicity wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    Five more years of Sims 4........what more is there to do after university is released honestly that hasn't been done already?

    Judging by the Ideas section, I'm pretty sure "a lot" is the answer to your question. Not just packs, but also base game changes.
    I don't know I've waited 5 years for any of those ideas to be implemented and have yet to see it. Only one that did were toddlers. Last time I checked Gurus don't even read forums so sadly those ideas are useless if no one reads them.

    Occult players waited for magic 5 years and it just happened. University fans are about to get that part for the game. Tropical world was on plenty of people's wish lists.

    Whether the gurus do or don't read the forums (I used the Ideas section as an example of just that: ideas for thing that could be added to the game) they do seem to be aware of at least the farming pack and/or horses as a wish, plus definitely werewolves since people posting ideas on here also mention them on twitter and elsewhere, so the answer to your question stands: there's still a lot to do after University. And that's just based on players' ideas, the team likely has their own too.
    Wait what? Are we even playing the same game? Occult was done with base game ghost patch, Get to Work, Vampires, Island Living, and Realms of Magic. But yeah compared to previous iterations the number of occults five years later is still scaled back a lot. I don't know, I've heard plenty of fans call Island Living the worst pack ever and they still are not happy even with Outdoor Retreat and Jungle Adventures, they are still asking for vacation spots because apparently the ones given are still not appeasing their needs. I hope the farming thing gets done. It actually would be one of the few new idea DLC packs to enter the franchise. University I was disappointed being repeated again and was hoping it would extend beyond just YAs with education especially since modders knocked both university and grade and high school out of the park with their mods. I asked one of the game changers which occult would work with university and they said werewolves would because of shows like teen wolf. Would be nice to get horses and llamas with farming, but whenever something transportation is mentioned it is always the confinement of the Sims 4 neighborhood design as the excuse why features like horses or cars can't be done in the game. I don't see ideas posted on Twitter or shared with Gurus. All I see are Simmers fighting with each other as they do here. Would be nice if Simmers actually talking about the game and ideas for it once, but five years later I just don't see that happening. All they care about is dressing up their perfect barbie dolls rather than game play or game tools and constantly asking the game to be harder by asking repeats of the same things of positive only achievements, goals, careers, etc. The game lacks drama and I don't see the game going on five more years because the only drama the Sims 4 is going to get is in the Sims community rather than the game itself. It is like can Simmers really handle five more years of bickering back and forth or the same content and with occults being constantly nerfed because Simmers find them too negative?

    Even game changers are getting frustrated how the game hasn't changed much or old five year old bugs haven't been fixed yet. I just don't see things changing and had plenty of Simmers tell me how much things will change in five years, five years ago. So it is like ok I'm being told that again, why? Can you promise that things will change? No Simmer can. So why carry on all these false promises further. Sims 4 was falsely advertised in so many aspects during launch and five years later those claims of what the game being and what it actually is are just still not there. I don't think the game will ever deliver what it promised for the base game and time has proven that. The schism of the Sims community is too strong to sustain five more years of development. Any normal company would move onto a new product that split their customer base in two and a 10 year old product especially in the gaming industry is going to age really badly especially since Sims 3 graphics and game engine are still considered more modern than the Sims 4 one. Out with the old and in with the new. Sims 4 is old now. Time to bring in the new gaming engine technology and fashion and music. I'm not getting any younger either, younger Simmers may have time to spare on a dated Sims 4 game, but I don't. Time is valuable to me and I would like to see the franchise grow beyond just the Sims 4. I'm hoping I'll still be alive by the time the Sims 10 comes out. But oh well, I'm sure by the time Sims 5 comes out, competition will come in with new gaming engines and graphics easily. So might be a good thing for Sims 4 to extend development, to make the barrier of entry of competition easier to come through just for the simple fact that "people like new graphics". I hope Paralives is one of those. But it amazing what one developer has done with Stardew Valley since 2016 compared to what little Sims 4 has done since 2014. Shows how much indie developers are going to save the gaming industry. They are just doing amazing emotional things with GRIS and Celeste and winning awards for their efforts. Their sales are killing it too: "As of March 2019, Gris has sold 300,000 copies worldwide." "By the end of 2018, over 500,000 copies of the game had been sold." So yes games with real human emotions do sell well rather than whatever robotic emotions the Sims have that were supposed to be the best emotion system in the franchise yet and the smartest Sims yet and best multitasking yet. I have yet to see that. XD

    Sims 4 has gotten a lot better since launch. The sims are still very shallow, imo, but who can forget the saga of Mr Sausage?

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/817854/an-obnoxious-psychosausage-tests-the-boundaries-of-the-sims-4-emotions/p1

    ❤️❤️❤️❤️, I can't believe I missed that... Really does show smarter Sims™.
    raw
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 19,444 Member
    edited October 2019
    No it’s to late

    Prove I don't hate the game? How? What would prove that besides that I am playing, I'm very much enjoying building AND gameplay, have spent hours upon hours in the game (and lost track of time so many times because I got lost in it.
    Prove that more development is worth it? Again, how, besides that there are many people who still love it, many people who have ideas for what can be added to the game from base game additions and expanding of existing features to packs not seen before.
    If you look around the forums and elsewhere (though yeah, I agree, it's hard to see the good through the walls of "this isn't the game I want so it plum" sometimes) you'll see plenty of Simmers sharing their wishes for the game, asking the gurus about bugs (and yes, getting them fixed), helping make TS4 better. Instead of "why bother adding anything else?"

    re: the bolded part: precisely where you're saying it's not worthwhile. Why wouldn't it be, if people still love the game and want to see more added to it, want to see it continue? Passion isn't only "I want the next thing".

    For what it's worth, I've never once called TS4 any of those things. It IS a sandbox game though, it's a "create your own story" game. By design. And I don't know why that's seen as such a horrible thing.
    I see plenty of I don't want this in the game a lot too, so that is hard to see through as well. It gets very disheartening and discouraging. I remember one of the Game changers got very upset when I told her about how forums and Twitter claim that Game changers don't play with occults especially since she know for all her lovely occult emotes. If they want to see more, that kind of is saying they want to see the next thing. All I've been reading is how they want the Sims 4 to remain the same as it is today. That tells me that all ideas are done for paid DLC. I have been reading however and the community polls prove that base game content and bug fixes are highest in demand.

    I'm glad you think the Sims 4 is more than a toy to sink money into. I agree that Sims should keep its sandbox game roots and it isn't a bad thing either. It reaches more players that way.

    But yes don't worry not expecting just you to show your love, but others as well reaching out to the Gurus sharing ideas have and I love the ideas that were shared by another Simmer for the Sims future. I could see how passionate they were about the Sims future instead of just living in the moment. Five years of fights gets tiresome, I want them to talk about the game for a change. I want them to share ideas with the Gurus and get bugs fixed by the QA Gurus, and welcome new Simmers into the Sims community. I agree passion isn't just one thing but many things. I am quite sad seeing the recent community positions opening up I admit. SimGuruFrost has been doing a really good job as our CM and I have been enjoying the community polls.
    Post edited by Scobre on
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • SimmyFroggySimmyFroggy Posts: 1,759 Member
    Yes i feel like this will be fixed
    Scobre wrote: »

    Prove I don't hate the game? How? What would prove that besides that I am playing, I'm very much enjoying building AND gameplay, have spent hours upon hours in the game (and lost track of time so many times because I got lost in it.
    Prove that more development is worth it? Again, how, besides that there are many people who still love it, many people who have ideas for what can be added to the game from base game additions and expanding of existing features to packs not seen before.
    If you look around the forums and elsewhere (though yeah, I agree, it's hard to see the good through the walls of "this isn't the game I want so it plum" sometimes) you'll see plenty of Simmers sharing their wishes for the game, asking the gurus about bugs (and yes, getting them fixed), helping make TS4 better. Instead of "why bother adding anything else?"

    re: the bolded part: precisely where you're saying it's not worthwhile. Why wouldn't it be, if people still love the game and want to see more added to it, want to see it continue? Passion isn't only "I want the next thing".

    For what it's worth, I've never once called TS4 any of those things. It IS a sandbox game though, it's a "create your own story" game. By design. And I don't know why that's seen as such a horrible thing.
    I see plenty of I don't want this in the game a lot too, so that is hard to see through as well. It gets very disheartening and discouraging. I remember one of the Game changers got very upset when I told her about how forums and Twitter claim that Game changers don't play with occults especially since she know for all her lovely occult emotes. If they want to see more, that kind of is saying they want to see the next thing. All I've been reading is how they want the Sims 4 to remain the same as it is today. That tells me that all ideas are done for paid DLC. I have been reading however and the community polls prove that base game content and bug fixes are highest in demand.

    I'm glad you think the Sims 4 is more than a toy to sink money into. I agree that Sims should keep its sandbox game roots and it isn't a bad thing either. It reaches more players that way.

    But yes don't worry not expecting just you to show your love, but others as well reaching out to the Gurus sharing ideas. Five years of fights gets tiresome, I want them to talk about the game for a change. I want them to share ideas with the Gurus and get bugs fixed by the QA Gurus, and welcome new Simmers into the Sims community. I agree passion isn't just one thing but many things. I am quite sad seeing the recent community positions opening up I admit. SimGuruFrost has been doing a really good job as our CM and I have been enjoying the community polls.

    All of this I absolutely agree with.
    It's a sign of the times, unfortunately, where saying what one doesn't like seems more cool or whatever than saying what one does like. (I'm honestly too old for all that kinda stuff. I just want to enjoy my game and do whatever I can as a player to help it grow). The best kinda place seems to be some of the threads in the Ideas part of the forum, always great to see the kinda things SImmers come up with. Oh and the challenges section, that's always a fun place.
    I get that some people who have been with this game since the start (I wasn't, for many reasons, none because I wouldn't have wanted to) have grown tired of not seeing the things that *they* wanted to see. Others had to wait a long time (occult players, those who wanted university gameplay...). Added to that the general state of the world that just makes everyone miserable, it all resonates and people group with those who agree with them (unfortunately in places like twitter, that kinda stuff tends to explode rapidly). But yeah, I do see how feeling like one is shouting into the void can feel exhausting and make someone go the "I give up, this is not gonna change" way.

    Honestly though, for me personally, regardless of what happens next for TS4- whether any of the things I'd still love to see in the game (and man, do I ever have a long list ;)) actually make it in or not - I can see myself playing this one for a while.
    avatar art: Loves2draw1812
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 19,444 Member
    No it’s to late

    All of this I absolutely agree with.
    It's a sign of the times, unfortunately, where saying what one doesn't like seems more cool or whatever than saying what one does like. (I'm honestly too old for all that kinda stuff. I just want to enjoy my game and do whatever I can as a player to help it grow). The best kinda place seems to be some of the threads in the Ideas part of the forum, always great to see the kinda things Simmers come up with. Oh and the challenges section, that's always a fun place.
    I get that some people who have been with this game since the start (I wasn't, for many reasons, none because I wouldn't have wanted to) have grown tired of not seeing the things that *they* wanted to see. Others had to wait a long time (occult players, those who wanted university gameplay...). Added to that the general state of the world that just makes everyone miserable, it all resonates and people group with those who agree with them (unfortunately in places like twitter, that kinda stuff tends to explode rapidly). But yeah, I do see how feeling like one is shouting into the void can feel exhausting and make someone go the "I give up, this is not gonna change" way.

    Honestly though, for me personally, regardless of what happens next for TS4- whether any of the things I'd still love to see in the game (and man, do I ever have a long list ;)) actually make it in or not - I can see myself playing this one for a while.
    Thanks I really enjoy this post. Oh I wouldn't mind reading your list too. I admit I have never been into challenges myself although I did create one with other Simmers, my fellow Squirrel sisters. Yeah that is what I would like to change is not having the state of the world creep into the Sims community. I come here to escape that, not get involved in the politics of all that. Yeah has felt like I've shouted into the void since I joined the Sims community. I'm glad you enjoy playing it. I'm currently working on making some TS2 premades the Pleasant family into spellcasters. I am a hybrid of playstyles and yes I do like university and occults too.

    As far as my theme/patch ideas just to keep it confined to 10:
    1) Farm pack
    2) RV/tiny home/retirement pack
    3) School pack
    4) Werewolves, satyrs, genies, robots, zombies, fairies, and changeling life states
    5) AI/Emotion system upgrade with fear emotion and nerfing of environment buffs
    6) Revamping the trait and lot trait system
    7) Adding NPCs firefighters, burglars, cops, social workers and NPC vehicles
    8) Cars/transportation systems
    9) Individual Sim descriptions
    10) Upgrades to life stages from freeing babies, improving children, teens, and elders, and more activities for all life stages to do together including taking toddlers and babies to community lots

    I doubt that these will be done too and yes why I've lost hope in the Sims 4 future. There are some activities like going to aquariums or the zoo and playing family sports I wouldn't mind either. Sims in Sims 4 are too much of hermits currently with the main focus of indoor activities only.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • FaeChaiFaeChai Posts: 87 Member
    No it’s to late
    I think it's too late. I wish they would but I think it's too far along that they have their sights set on other things. The lack of traits are pretty annoying.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,950 Member
    edited October 2019
    No it’s to late
    Scobre wrote: »

    All of this I absolutely agree with.
    It's a sign of the times, unfortunately, where saying what one doesn't like seems more cool or whatever than saying what one does like. (I'm honestly too old for all that kinda stuff. I just want to enjoy my game and do whatever I can as a player to help it grow). The best kinda place seems to be some of the threads in the Ideas part of the forum, always great to see the kinda things Simmers come up with. Oh and the challenges section, that's always a fun place.
    I get that some people who have been with this game since the start (I wasn't, for many reasons, none because I wouldn't have wanted to) have grown tired of not seeing the things that *they* wanted to see. Others had to wait a long time (occult players, those who wanted university gameplay...). Added to that the general state of the world that just makes everyone miserable, it all resonates and people group with those who agree with them (unfortunately in places like twitter, that kinda stuff tends to explode rapidly). But yeah, I do see how feeling like one is shouting into the void can feel exhausting and make someone go the "I give up, this is not gonna change" way.

    Honestly though, for me personally, regardless of what happens next for TS4- whether any of the things I'd still love to see in the game (and man, do I ever have a long list ;)) actually make it in or not - I can see myself playing this one for a while.
    Thanks I really enjoy this post. Oh I wouldn't mind reading your list too. I admit I have never been into challenges myself although I did create one with other Simmers, my fellow Squirrel sisters. Yeah that is what I would like to change is not having the state of the world creep into the Sims community. I come here to escape that, not get involved in the politics of all that. Yeah has felt like I've shouted into the void since I joined the Sims community. I'm glad you enjoy playing it. I'm currently working on making some TS2 premades the Pleasant family into spellcasters. I am a hybrid of playstyles and yes I do like university and occults too.

    As far as my theme/patch ideas just to keep it confined to 10:
    1) Farm pack
    2) RV/tiny home/retirement pack
    3) School pack
    4) Werewolves, satyrs, genies, robots, zombies, fairies, and changeling life states
    5) AI/Emotion system upgrade with fear emotion and nerfing of environment buffs
    6) Revamping the trait and lot trait system
    7) Adding NPCs firefighters, burglars, cops, social workers and NPC vehicles
    8) Cars/transportation systems
    9) Individual Sim descriptions
    10) Upgrades to life stages from freeing babies, improving children, teens, and elders, and more activities for all life stages to do together including taking toddlers and babies to community lots

    I doubt that these will be done too and yes why I've lost hope in the Sims 4 future. There are some activities like going to aquariums or the zoo and playing family sports I wouldn't mind either. Sims in Sims 4 are too much of hermits currently with the main focus of indoor activities only.
    I didn’t really enjoy that post I must confess. Especially not the part where it’s suggested that people are being negative just because it’s some kind of fashion, a sign of the times. Disregarding that most people here aren’t criticizing the game because they want to be cool or belong to a ‘group’ or something. It’s also not about not seeing the things you want to see (like some spoiled kid). It’s about genuinely being bored when you really really don’t want to be and yet it happens every time you open the game. A game that you know can be so much better (because you’ve actually experienced - and still experience - it can be so much better). Also, all those people are very positive and enthousiastic about other things in life. You should see them in the Sims 2 and Sims 3 section for instance, you’ll hardly recognize them. It really puts me off when people are trying to belittle or downplay other people’s motives just because they don’t feel the same way, coming up with all kind of ‘reasons’ other than thorough arguments and a genuine opinion (talk about being dismissive). Love Sims 4, but grant others their own motives and reasons when they don’t. It’s not like they’re leaving you in the dark as to the why. And it’s not to be cool. If being negative is the new cool, I don’t want to be cool.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • SimmyFroggySimmyFroggy Posts: 1,759 Member
    Yes i feel like this will be fixed
    Scobre wrote: »

    All of this I absolutely agree with.
    It's a sign of the times, unfortunately, where saying what one doesn't like seems more cool or whatever than saying what one does like. (I'm honestly too old for all that kinda stuff. I just want to enjoy my game and do whatever I can as a player to help it grow). The best kinda place seems to be some of the threads in the Ideas part of the forum, always great to see the kinda things Simmers come up with. Oh and the challenges section, that's always a fun place.
    I get that some people who have been with this game since the start (I wasn't, for many reasons, none because I wouldn't have wanted to) have grown tired of not seeing the things that *they* wanted to see. Others had to wait a long time (occult players, those who wanted university gameplay...). Added to that the general state of the world that just makes everyone miserable, it all resonates and people group with those who agree with them (unfortunately in places like twitter, that kinda stuff tends to explode rapidly). But yeah, I do see how feeling like one is shouting into the void can feel exhausting and make someone go the "I give up, this is not gonna change" way.

    Honestly though, for me personally, regardless of what happens next for TS4- whether any of the things I'd still love to see in the game (and man, do I ever have a long list ;)) actually make it in or not - I can see myself playing this one for a while.
    Thanks I really enjoy this post. Oh I wouldn't mind reading your list too. I admit I have never been into challenges myself although I did create one with other Simmers, my fellow Squirrel sisters. Yeah that is what I would like to change is not having the state of the world creep into the Sims community. I come here to escape that, not get involved in the politics of all that. Yeah has felt like I've shouted into the void since I joined the Sims community. I'm glad you enjoy playing it. I'm currently working on making some TS2 premades the Pleasant family into spellcasters. I am a hybrid of playstyles and yes I do like university and occults too.

    As far as my theme/patch ideas just to keep it confined to 10:
    1) Farm pack
    2) RV/tiny home/retirement pack
    3) School pack
    4) Werewolves, satyrs, genies, robots, zombies, fairies, and changeling life states
    5) AI/Emotion system upgrade with fear emotion and nerfing of environment buffs
    6) Revamping the trait and lot trait system
    7) Adding NPCs firefighters, burglars, cops, social workers and NPC vehicles
    8) Cars/transportation systems
    9) Individual Sim descriptions
    10) Upgrades to life stages from freeing babies, improving children, teens, and elders, and more activities for all life stages to do together including taking toddlers and babies to community lots

    I doubt that these will be done too and yes why I've lost hope in the Sims 4 future. There are some activities like going to aquariums or the zoo and playing family sports I wouldn't mind either. Sims in Sims 4 are too much of hermits currently with the main focus of indoor activities only.

    I have my wishlist things (well, the ones I could think of at the time) over in a thread here, priorities and all. I'm not counting on all of them being added but some of them would be great for sure. (it's a long post ;))

    Your list is awesome and quite a few of those are on my wishlist too. Not quite sure if I want the burglar to come back but I wouldn't be opposed to it (for major TS1 nostalgia reasons) as long as we also have a security system though!.
    The thing about fears: we already have a version of it for pets, so it would be great to have those expanded to Sims too. I wouldn't even mind if they're silly things at times, it would still add to the game.

    In a way, I think the game's improvements (we did get quite some over the years, and yes, some of them should've been in base game but since we don't have a time machine that's the best solution: terrains, toddlers, glass roofs etc, it all adds up) got a little stalled by the development of packs that a big amount of players expected, the ones that are repeats of previous ones from TS2 and TS3 like Seasons and pets and now university. I wish it wasn't as much of a case of "okay, what's a priority" on more levels than just "what do people want" but it is what it is.
    With the major ones pretty much out of the way now (what's left that's already been done? more occults, a futuristic pack, hobbies), hopefully, instead of it meaning the end, it means we're going to get packs with things not seen before.
    Since the team doesn't seem to be anywhere near done, I'm not willing to throw in the towel yet either.

    Here's to tons more happy Simming :D
    avatar art: Loves2draw1812
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 19,444 Member
    No it’s to late
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    I didn’t really enjoy that post I must confess. Especially not the part where it’s suggested that people are being negative just because it’s some kind of fashion, a sign of the times. Disregarding that most people here aren’t criticizing the game because they want to be cool or belong to a ‘group’ or something. It’s also not about not seeing the things you want to see (like some spoiled kid). It’s about genuinely being bored when you really really don’t want to be and yet it happens every time you open the game. A game that you know can be so much better (because you’ve actually experienced - and still experience - it can be so much better). Also, all those people are very positive and enthousiastic about other things in life. You should see them in the Sims 2 and Sims 3 section for instance, you’ll hardly recognize them. It really puts me off when people are trying to belittle or downplay other people’s motives just because they don’t feel the same way, coming up with all kind of ‘reasons’ other than thorough arguments and a genuine opinion (talk about being dismissive). Love Sims 4, but grant others their own motives and reasons when they don’t. It’s not like they’re leaving you in the dark as to the why. And it’s not to be cool. If being negative is the new cool, I don’t want to be cool.
    Oh it is totally peer pressure influenced. Biggest example of a total 180 of positive to negative is the SimVIP. Funny thing is their critical threads get more posts and responses than their positive ones. But I think we know each other enough to know we don't give into peer pressure. I do agree the game still could be better and yes every Simmer has positive and negative aspects to them and their responses no matter what part of the Sims community they chose to respond in. Yeah I've been belittled and yes I don't like how people try to assume alternative motives for me or why I choose to talk to and befriend the people I do. It's ok being cool is so overrated anyways. I'm not in high school anymore and haven't been for quite some time now. People are dismissive about others in the workplace too. I've just learned that there will always people who will be forever trapped in the high school mentality that labels and how many likes you have matter. Why I like this quote from Aladdin, "There isn’t enough money and power in the world for you to be satisfied." Focusing on these two things whether in the community or in the game will not bring happiness or positivity into someone's life. It is the people plural that bring happiness with another quote from that movie, "It’s them. The people that make it beautiful." First thing we learn in life as a baby is love and I know social media has a huge influence on spreading negativity in the world. There are even studies about it: https://www.bhpalmbeach.com/are-depression-and-social-media-usage-linked/ But I get tired of the blame game of "you are negative, I am positive." Life isn't just black and white like that or one extreme or another. If Sims are going to need more emotions to them, Simmers have to realize that they have a range of emotions too. Perfection is non-existent and honestly if being positive means acting like a robot and repeating praise all the time, I rather stick to my humanity and accept my mistakes. Shows I'm more human that way that I can accept the positive with the negative and everything in between.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • CynnaCynna Posts: 2,169 Member
    edited October 2019
    No it’s to late
    Siladria wrote: »
    Why do so many people see inclusivity as an agenda? Doesn't everyone have the right to see themselves represented in the media they consume? Why does this bother you guys so much? Like, to me that's not what makes the game's developers 'out of touch'.

    Inclusivity isn't the problem. The problem is that someone at EA/Maxis with the power to make decisions thinks that inclusivity takes precedence over everything else. The Sims is a game, players have always made representative characters in their own games, even if they required CC to do it. It's nice of EA/Maxis to include more skin tones and different cultural items. Yet, in the end, the most important aspect of TS4 shouldn't be that. It should be to make sure that the company is producing a great game that people actually want to play.

    The article that I read made it seem as if that person wanted to build a self-soothing simulator to help people to work through their issues and/or to 'get even'. If that is how some folk are using the game, more power to them. Yet, that's not how this series started and I really, really hope that's not where it will continue to go. For me, it's just about wanting to play a game.

    For example, EA/Maxis spent an entire year revamping CAS so that clothes could be used with either gender. I appreciate the effort, but that time could have been spent on, say, an attraction system, likes/dislikes, fixing whims, or fixing the many bugs that keep cropping up in the game. After all of that effort, most of the clothing doesn't even look that good on the opposite gender.
    I3Ml5Om.jpg
  • PHOEBESMOM601PHOEBESMOM601 Posts: 14,585 Member
    No it’s to late
    It's okay though. I have fun in CAS. I think that part of the game is freaking brilliant.
    "People really love to explore 'failure states. In fact, the failure states are really much more interesting than the success states." ~ Will Wright
  • NiaraTiaraNiaraTiara Posts: 110 Member
    No it’s to late
    The sims team has proved time and time again that they are lazy. So I don't have hope. I rely on mods.
    Let there be Fairies! o:)
  • SimmyFroggySimmyFroggy Posts: 1,759 Member
    Yes i feel like this will be fixed
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »

    All of this I absolutely agree with.
    It's a sign of the times, unfortunately, where saying what one doesn't like seems more cool or whatever than saying what one does like. (I'm honestly too old for all that kinda stuff. I just want to enjoy my game and do whatever I can as a player to help it grow). The best kinda place seems to be some of the threads in the Ideas part of the forum, always great to see the kinda things Simmers come up with. Oh and the challenges section, that's always a fun place.
    I get that some people who have been with this game since the start (I wasn't, for many reasons, none because I wouldn't have wanted to) have grown tired of not seeing the things that *they* wanted to see. Others had to wait a long time (occult players, those who wanted university gameplay...). Added to that the general state of the world that just makes everyone miserable, it all resonates and people group with those who agree with them (unfortunately in places like twitter, that kinda stuff tends to explode rapidly). But yeah, I do see how feeling like one is shouting into the void can feel exhausting and make someone go the "I give up, this is not gonna change" way.

    Honestly though, for me personally, regardless of what happens next for TS4- whether any of the things I'd still love to see in the game (and man, do I ever have a long list ;)) actually make it in or not - I can see myself playing this one for a while.
    Thanks I really enjoy this post. Oh I wouldn't mind reading your list too. I admit I have never been into challenges myself although I did create one with other Simmers, my fellow Squirrel sisters. Yeah that is what I would like to change is not having the state of the world creep into the Sims community. I come here to escape that, not get involved in the politics of all that. Yeah has felt like I've shouted into the void since I joined the Sims community. I'm glad you enjoy playing it. I'm currently working on making some TS2 premades the Pleasant family into spellcasters. I am a hybrid of playstyles and yes I do like university and occults too.

    As far as my theme/patch ideas just to keep it confined to 10:
    1) Farm pack
    2) RV/tiny home/retirement pack
    3) School pack
    4) Werewolves, satyrs, genies, robots, zombies, fairies, and changeling life states
    5) AI/Emotion system upgrade with fear emotion and nerfing of environment buffs
    6) Revamping the trait and lot trait system
    7) Adding NPCs firefighters, burglars, cops, social workers and NPC vehicles
    8) Cars/transportation systems
    9) Individual Sim descriptions
    10) Upgrades to life stages from freeing babies, improving children, teens, and elders, and more activities for all life stages to do together including taking toddlers and babies to community lots

    I doubt that these will be done too and yes why I've lost hope in the Sims 4 future. There are some activities like going to aquariums or the zoo and playing family sports I wouldn't mind either. Sims in Sims 4 are too much of hermits currently with the main focus of indoor activities only.
    I didn’t really enjoy that post I must confess. Especially not the part where it’s suggested that people are being negative just because it’s some kind of fashion, a sign of the times. Disregarding that most people here aren’t criticizing the game because they want to be cool or belong to a ‘group’ or something. It’s also not about not seeing the things you want to see (like some spoiled kid). It’s about genuinely being bored when you really really don’t want to be and yet it happens every time you open the game. A game that you know can be so much better (because you’ve actually experienced - and still experience - it can be so much better). Also, all those people are very positive and enthousiastic about other things in life. You should see them in the Sims 2 and Sims 3 section for instance, you’ll hardly recognize them. It really puts me off when people are trying to belittle or downplay other people’s motives just because they don’t feel the same way, coming up with all kind of ‘reasons’ other than thorough arguments and a genuine opinion (talk about being dismissive). Love Sims 4, but grant others their own motives and reasons when they don’t. It’s not like they’re leaving you in the dark as to the why. And it’s not to be cool. If being negative is the new cool, I don’t want to be cool.

    My apologies, I didn't include a "not all Simmers" disclaimer as I was talking about a general trend in the world, especially social media.
    When you have people who talk about being 'woke' for changing their tack from focusing on the positive to being critical (and not particularly constructive), when you have people who make it a point to answer "what do you enjoy about X" with "I don't" or "nothing", when people who do enjoy something are lumped into a group called childish and naive and simple, then it's not hard to see that those people see a level of coolness in being negative. But again, *not all people*.

    And yes, there definitely are those who act like something is useless and objectively bad because it doesn't fit their wants. Again, not everyone.

    I'm not dismissing people with genuine constructive ways of how they'd want to see the game be different. I have, however, very little time for those who come into any conversation that's constructive with "I deserve to be heard and my take is that this is beyond helping, why bother". I love threads with people's ideas, ways that things could work better, ways that the game could cater to more than just one type of player. Which unfortunately is less common than (again, not applying to every single person) the attitude of "it's not gonna change, time to make sure everyone agrees".

    Veering off topic a little: those kind of attitudes, on the grand scale of things, are definitely an ongoing trend, especially online. A significant amount of people (still not everyone) took "think critically" and took it to mean "cancel everything that has the slightest issue". It doesn't only apply to games, it's not every single person out there as many do indeed think critically in terms of seeing issues and looking for ways to fix them, but social media can be an echo chamber for people like the ones I mentioned. Final disclaimer: general trends, not applicable to every single person.
    avatar art: Loves2draw1812
  • FelicityFelicity Posts: 4,665 Member
    edited October 2019
    I don’t know i hope so
    I'm intrigued by your usage of "think critically." I've never seen it used to mean "look for things to be critical about." I always use it to mean to objectively evaluate something. I think that's a problem with a world-wide forum is often when the words are the same, meanings are different, and it leads to misunderstandings.

    And to be clear, my criticisms about the Sims 4 are not because it's trendy to criticize the sims 4. I think most people aren't hating on a game to fit in with their online communities. There are always trolls, and there are some people who like to jump on the "hate train" so to speak, but on the forums here, I really haven't seen that. What I do see is long-time simmers who really, really want the game to be more engaging for them, and want to have some influence into what Sims 5 becomes.

    I linked it somewhere earlier in some thread, but when the game first launched the forums were in an uproar. The devs totally ignored criticism until someone made a story about an evil guy in a hotdog outfit named Mr. Sausages which highlighted many of the problems. And yes, the devs read and acknowledged it and made changes to the game, though many of the underlying issues just can't be fixed.

    I wish I were artistic enough to do something similar. Using humor, no hyperbole, just highlighting what I see are flaws but in a way that doesn't make people completely defensive.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,950 Member
    edited October 2019
    No it’s to late
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »

    All of this I absolutely agree with.
    It's a sign of the times, unfortunately, where saying what one doesn't like seems more cool or whatever than saying what one does like. (I'm honestly too old for all that kinda stuff. I just want to enjoy my game and do whatever I can as a player to help it grow). The best kinda place seems to be some of the threads in the Ideas part of the forum, always great to see the kinda things Simmers come up with. Oh and the challenges section, that's always a fun place.
    I get that some people who have been with this game since the start (I wasn't, for many reasons, none because I wouldn't have wanted to) have grown tired of not seeing the things that *they* wanted to see. Others had to wait a long time (occult players, those who wanted university gameplay...). Added to that the general state of the world that just makes everyone miserable, it all resonates and people group with those who agree with them (unfortunately in places like twitter, that kinda stuff tends to explode rapidly). But yeah, I do see how feeling like one is shouting into the void can feel exhausting and make someone go the "I give up, this is not gonna change" way.

    Honestly though, for me personally, regardless of what happens next for TS4- whether any of the things I'd still love to see in the game (and man, do I ever have a long list ;)) actually make it in or not - I can see myself playing this one for a while.
    Thanks I really enjoy this post. Oh I wouldn't mind reading your list too. I admit I have never been into challenges myself although I did create one with other Simmers, my fellow Squirrel sisters. Yeah that is what I would like to change is not having the state of the world creep into the Sims community. I come here to escape that, not get involved in the politics of all that. Yeah has felt like I've shouted into the void since I joined the Sims community. I'm glad you enjoy playing it. I'm currently working on making some TS2 premades the Pleasant family into spellcasters. I am a hybrid of playstyles and yes I do like university and occults too.

    As far as my theme/patch ideas just to keep it confined to 10:
    1) Farm pack
    2) RV/tiny home/retirement pack
    3) School pack
    4) Werewolves, satyrs, genies, robots, zombies, fairies, and changeling life states
    5) AI/Emotion system upgrade with fear emotion and nerfing of environment buffs
    6) Revamping the trait and lot trait system
    7) Adding NPCs firefighters, burglars, cops, social workers and NPC vehicles
    8) Cars/transportation systems
    9) Individual Sim descriptions
    10) Upgrades to life stages from freeing babies, improving children, teens, and elders, and more activities for all life stages to do together including taking toddlers and babies to community lots

    I doubt that these will be done too and yes why I've lost hope in the Sims 4 future. There are some activities like going to aquariums or the zoo and playing family sports I wouldn't mind either. Sims in Sims 4 are too much of hermits currently with the main focus of indoor activities only.
    I didn’t really enjoy that post I must confess. Especially not the part where it’s suggested that people are being negative just because it’s some kind of fashion, a sign of the times. Disregarding that most people here aren’t criticizing the game because they want to be cool or belong to a ‘group’ or something. It’s also not about not seeing the things you want to see (like some spoiled kid). It’s about genuinely being bored when you really really don’t want to be and yet it happens every time you open the game. A game that you know can be so much better (because you’ve actually experienced - and still experience - it can be so much better). Also, all those people are very positive and enthousiastic about other things in life. You should see them in the Sims 2 and Sims 3 section for instance, you’ll hardly recognize them. It really puts me off when people are trying to belittle or downplay other people’s motives just because they don’t feel the same way, coming up with all kind of ‘reasons’ other than thorough arguments and a genuine opinion (talk about being dismissive). Love Sims 4, but grant others their own motives and reasons when they don’t. It’s not like they’re leaving you in the dark as to the why. And it’s not to be cool. If being negative is the new cool, I don’t want to be cool.

    My apologies, I didn't include a "not all Simmers" disclaimer as I was talking about a general trend in the world, especially social media.
    When you have people who talk about being 'woke' for changing their tack from focusing on the positive to being critical (and not particularly constructive), when you have people who make it a point to answer "what do you enjoy about X" with "I don't" or "nothing", when people who do enjoy something are lumped into a group called childish and naive and simple, then it's not hard to see that those people see a level of coolness in being negative. But again, *not all people*.

    And yes, there definitely are those who act like something is useless and objectively bad because it doesn't fit their wants. Again, not everyone.

    I'm not dismissing people with genuine constructive ways of how they'd want to see the game be different. I have, however, very little time for those who come into any conversation that's constructive with "I deserve to be heard and my take is that this is beyond helping, why bother". I love threads with people's ideas, ways that things could work better, ways that the game could cater to more than just one type of player. Which unfortunately is less common than (again, not applying to every single person) the attitude of "it's not gonna change, time to make sure everyone agrees".

    Veering off topic a little: those kind of attitudes, on the grand scale of things, are definitely an ongoing trend, especially online. A significant amount of people (still not everyone) took "think critically" and took it to mean "cancel everything that has the slightest issue". It doesn't only apply to games, it's not every single person out there as many do indeed think critically in terms of seeing issues and looking for ways to fix them, but social media can be an echo chamber for people like the ones I mentioned. Final disclaimer: general trends, not applicable to every single person.
    When you observe that something is a ‘sign of the times’, that suggested generalization to me. But of course I’ll wholeheartedly welcome the addition ‘not all simmers’. Not completely disagreeing with you there’s a lot of negativity by the way (especially on social media, although at the same time I see a lot of fake positivity there as well; people tend to exaggerate or polarize on social media and there seems to be little room for those standing in the middle). I also totally appreciate and even can relate to your love for those sections where the appreciation for this game is (regardless which version). It’s the reason why I only visit this little corner here usually, accept when I play and enjoy the game (Sims 4). I have no business there. Whenever I do enjoy the game (I did when I tried out GTW, JA and Vampires), I go to those sections and share my fun and enthousiasm. I’m far more happy then, than I am over here. And unhappy that it never lasted. So it’s definitely not a state I wallow in, being negative. But it is the state I am in. I just can’t deny or ignore that. And for me it’s even as strong as, that I think the game (and EA) no longer deserves that we deny and ignore it. That doesn’t mean I think my opinions are gospel, but they are mine, genuine and not part of a sign of the times. Nor am I on any bandwagon.

    I’m currently not active in the Sims 3 section by the way, because I love the totally closed off experience I enjoy in that game now for a change. I love to share, but right now I’m enjoying the game the way I did the first 8 months I played it in 2010, when I had no idea there were forums for the game. Later, when I became active on a forum and shared my stories and experiences and read other people’s stories and experiences, though I very much enjoyed that, I sometimes missed those first 8 months. So, at this moment I’m back to that: Sims 3 in my own bubble, Feedback and PM here to socialize with simmers and exchange opinions about the franchise.

    Discussing the current development of the franchise in that respect is inevitable and believe it or not, I also enjoy that. Not because I like to be negative (the few times I did enjoy, really enjoy, Sims 4 made me realize how much I crave that) but because I like to discuss this franchise and share thoughts how things could and should be better. At the same time it is a sad given for me personally that Sims 4 is a lost case. For me it really is. Only ROM had me considering for a minute because of the theme, but not anymore. I could lie about that to spare people’s feelings, but when asked (like in the topic “should they end Sims 4 and start focusing on Sims 5”) my response is that yes, I genuinely feel that Sims 4 has had its chance and the latest developments don’t support the feeling that it’s going to get better. The game is older than the predecessors ever were, I think we have every right to express the want for it to end, to express a longing for a successor. Not that I’m totally confident that successor will be great (for me), because I’m not, but because I want to be hopeful again. I can’t help I lost all hope for Sims 4, on a personal level. I am never going to love and enjoy that game (unless they do manage to make basegame adjustments like Carl’s recently suggested in his video; I’m very sceptical about that but if they can will pull that off, nobody will be more enchanted to be proved wrong than me).
    Post edited by JoAnne65 on
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  • Uzone27Uzone27 Posts: 2,808 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    @Scobre idk what exactly in "there's still content they can add to the game after University, there's a ton of ideas on here and elsewhere on social media" gave you the prompt for that rant.
    I said nothing about HOW things were implemented (and honestly, the fact that there's so little occult stuff in the game just tells me that there's room for more). I only spoke about magic, not about occults in general too so I'm not even saying there's too little or too much, that's a whole another conversation. I'm also not talking about how much the game can change.

    Bottom line: you hate TS4, I don't. Each to their own. Just as I think there are still a lot of themes to be added after University, which is why I answered your question: what more can be done in the game? Tons. Things brought back from previous versions, brand new things that were not in the games before. That's it, simple answer to a simple question in one specific post.
    I don't hate it which is the main assumption, if someone wants the game to change in anyway or deliver what it initially promised is always said. That makes sense about the magic five years later though. But honestly if people love the game as much as they claim and still think more development is worth it, prove it then. Because honestly in the past five years they haven't. Ok you say you don't hate the game, then prove it, just don't tell me. Share those ideas with the Gurus, share those bugs, share that you want the game to be more inclusive worldwide, because if Simmers don't, then it proves to me that they don't love the game as much as they claim they do. I really would like to be proven wrong within the next year or so otherwise I don't see why "there is enough content to keep the Sims 4 going for the next five years" as worthwhile. People can assume as negativity they want to about other people including me, but all that proves is how much the Sims 4 lacks that negativity is if Simmers have to goat other Simmers to get drama in their lives with false labels. Life is full of positive and negative and everything in between. I'm a Simmer, been called lover and hater before but in the end I'm a Sims deviant and outlier and fall in the in between. The Sims is about the community, not about "to each their own". Where is that love, where is that passion for the series to grow? I guess that is the biggest default about the Sims 4 is even five years later it is still considered "to each their own" type of game. So much for it being about the Sims plural, instead it is about the single Sim that doesn't even live up to the simulation title. Sad even five years later it is still called a toy or a RPG doll rather than a game these days by people who claim to love it.

    As much as I enjoyed your post the other day this^ was an absolute mess.

    Repetition doesn't equate to passion.
    First of all how many who play the game post on Social Media?
    Is your opinion worth more than someone who never expresses themselves on forums?
    Whatever happened to voting with your wallet?

    I'm on my 3rd Stratocaster. should I be sending open letters to Fender expressing my love and dedication to them for their wonderful product?
    And what would happen if that product went down hill? Should I seek out the forums and post about my displeasure on a daily basis?
    Or just go out and buy a Les Paul?

    When someone does create a post listing the things they like about the game, it's not seen as someone posting their opinion.
    It's seen as as opportunity for the same cast of characters to tear it down point by point until that person just goes away

    I don't see the need to prove anything to this franchise.
    You basically just said your opinion counts more because you care more. smh :|
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